Fascinating! I had a feeling good resting tongue posture would help a voice, as every is already up. And many elite singers have very attractive, well-developed faces. No coincidence there.
@@OpusMyo please, can you make a video for those of us who had poor tongue posture as children with funky swallow patterns, and then had crowded teeth and extractions and now lack space for all the tongue, with recessed maxilla too - how can we help ourselves?
Hi Sarah. It could be a few things; one of the most common is lack of space for the tongue to rest, so it is pressed backwards and into the airway. If you would like to find out more, I suggest finding an "airway focused" orthodontist near you who can perform a thorough exam and treatment plan (and a CBCT / cone beam xray if possible)
This is all so interesting. I have always known that I’m tongue tied and I am a professional singer for nearly ten years and I have been a performer/vocalist my entire life. I’ve never really had any issues vocally but in the last year, I’m facing vocal cracks frequently. I wonder if a lifetime on tension is wearing on me just now or what. My voice used to be completely fine and I know I hold tension. Idk what I’m getting at but I feel like I’m gagging from my tongue often. Will a op solve my problems?
Great question! I see this often in my singing clients; as we age, our technique improves, which should mean we have less injuries and more stamina, etc. But (as you said, and you are exactly right) that lifetime of tension finally becomes harder and harder to manage and to 'reset' and dissipate each day (as opposed to when we are young and fresh!) I'd recommend at the very least having a consult and chatting about it! It could be the tension from a lifetime of being tongue tied and/or some compensations- you'd need someone to help you find out if its one or both :)
I absolutely can! 1. Do a quick self-assessment for tongue tie. measure your mouth openings in the specified positions and compare your singing issues with those stated. 2. If you think you are tongue tied based on your answers from 1 above ^, seek out a formal tongue tie diagnosis from a tongue tie expert such as an airway dentist or myofunctional therapist (preferably one who is familiar/has experience with singers!) 3. If/Once you are formally diagnosed as tongue tied, pursue tongue tie release surgery, making sure you do myo exercises both before and after surgery with a myo expert. (4. Consult a voice technician who specializes in eliminating compensations if you still have some technique and or singing-muscular issues post release) 5. Live your new life tongue-tension free and with a happy, free, isolated tongue! Yay!
Well, if you press the tongue to the top of your mouth, you won't be able to speak, cause it can't make the pronunciation. What I do is to feel the sides of the tongue at the upper molar teeth, gently gliding on them. That brings it up, but not in the way of pronunciation.
Most singing teacher would agree that it should. Within the classical-singing world, my opinion and most teachers agree that the back of the tongue should get higher as the pitch gets higher, but there are some conflicting views.
Hello! It is COMMON but it is not IDEAL or NORMAL. Sometimes both can occur when we are correcting tongue posture at first (maybe within two weeks) but anything beyond that could point to further potential issues, the most common being: 1. Extremely restricted tongue (especially in the posterior portion) that prevents the tongue from lifting freely and causes pain and/or discomfort 2. lack of adequate space in the upper arch/maxillary area which can cause TMJ pain/discomfort and headaches. In my personal experience, my past clients who had severe headaches etc were also my clients with the most restrictive posterior tongue ties. If you are past two weeks, I highly recommend you seek further guidance from an Orofacial Myologist, Myofunctional Therapist, and/or an airway focused orthodontist or dentist- they should be able to give answers more specific to you! Wishing you well xx.
@@OpusMyo thanks for the response. I just started correcting my posture 2 days ago and I noticed the discomfort. Fortunately it doesn't seem like I have a posterior tongue tie, as I can stretch it to the roof of my mouth just fine without any restriction. And I wouldn't say the headache I have is severe but it's just uncomfortable accompanied by some soreness in the tongue root.
a low and forward tongue, espeically if it has tendency to rest against teeth, often times is caused by a head that is too far forward, and not anything to do with weakness, but actually over compensation due to a weak/tight mandible and lack of neural feedback to keep your spine aligned from hips to head. check out PRI institutes work for more.
Yes, that can be a factor! (PRI is wonderful, I have worked with many of their instructors personally :) ) Tongue ties can also be another facet of this same issue, as the tissue completely prevents the tongue from being in any other position. However there are many sleep apneacs and even some kiddos who have great mobility but poor muscle tone. People can have both! Mike Cantrell (PRI) and Dr. Elizabeth Caughy DDS (local colleagues of mine) are currently researching this exact thing!
@@OpusMyo very interesting. Since the tongue is basically dominating the mandible, I could see how a tongue tie would lead to jaw problems which would affect the whole skeleton above and below. Also affect the ears, eyes, and breathing, which would disturb the neural system even more leading to more dysfunction and possibly directional dominance leaning either forward, back, or to one side. I’m about an hour away from self administering my own tongue tie cut as an experiment 😅
and dont worry that is just a joke at the end. I arleady destroyed my tongue tie as a kid when the ear part of glasses shoved under my tongue and ripped it apart@@OpusMyo
@@taborgreat Yes! Many of my clients with tongue ties also have ear-draining improvements, headache improvements, and even pelvic floor improvements due to decreased tension in the deep front fascial line. A tongue tie assessment certainly couldn't hurt!!!
Absolute rubbish Why? Correct tongue position is learned as a result of forming vowels in chest voice. A competent teacher of the Italian school can teach this by example.
Well, obviously I disagree, mostly because there are infinite ways to make any one vowel sound; I can make what sounds like a perfect Italian /a/, but also add additional muscle groups not required, which will lead to tongue tension and strain and overuse. Also, I personally find that teaching by example can be dangerous- many people are physically built differently in their mouths/tongue just as much as we are all different on the outside. People with different rib shapes have slightly different methods of breath inhalation. And what if I, a heavy soprano, taught a light tenor? If I only taught by example of what I do and not what they need, I would not be serving them- in fact, I could damage them unintentionally. Lastly, I am a fan, and indeed, user, of the Italian operatic school, so I don't disagree with any of the ideas, but I find that teaching with all metaphors/visualizations can lead to a LOT of confusion- even amongst singers who already have professional careers- I've personally seen this happen quite a lot. Just my two cents!
This is great stuff, thanks!
Thnks
N8ce!
When making vowels, should the tongue be touching the ridge, or near it? (While singing. Not while resting)
Fascinating! I had a feeling good resting tongue posture would help a voice, as every is already up. And many elite singers have very attractive, well-developed faces. No coincidence there.
YES! And they all have great cheek bones...which is the maxilla...right where that tongue posture sits...another NOT coincidence!
@@OpusMyo please, can you make a video for those of us who had poor tongue posture as children with funky swallow patterns, and then had crowded teeth and extractions and now lack space for all the tongue, with recessed maxilla too - how can we help ourselves?
What if you struggle to breath when you correct your tongue posture
Hi Sarah. It could be a few things; one of the most common is lack of space for the tongue to rest, so it is pressed backwards and into the airway. If you would like to find out more, I suggest finding an "airway focused" orthodontist near you who can perform a thorough exam and treatment plan (and a CBCT / cone beam xray if possible)
What was the exercise that was being attempted in the end of the video? I'd like to know for my own comparison
I agreed! I want to know the exercises
This is all so interesting. I have always known that I’m tongue tied and I am a professional singer for nearly ten years and I have been a performer/vocalist my entire life. I’ve never really had any issues vocally but in the last year, I’m facing vocal cracks frequently. I wonder if a lifetime on tension is wearing on me just now or what. My voice used to be completely fine and I know I hold tension. Idk what I’m getting at but I feel like I’m gagging from my tongue often. Will a op solve my problems?
Great question! I see this often in my singing clients; as we age, our technique improves, which should mean we have less injuries and more stamina, etc. But (as you said, and you are exactly right) that lifetime of tension finally becomes harder and harder to manage and to 'reset' and dissipate each day (as opposed to when we are young and fresh!) I'd recommend at the very least having a consult and chatting about it! It could be the tension from a lifetime of being tongue tied and/or some compensations- you'd need someone to help you find out if its one or both :)
Can you give us an instructions how to fix these problems?
I absolutely can!
1. Do a quick self-assessment for tongue tie. measure your mouth openings in the specified positions and compare your singing issues with those stated.
2. If you think you are tongue tied based on your answers from 1 above ^, seek out a formal tongue tie diagnosis from a tongue tie expert such as an airway dentist or myofunctional therapist (preferably one who is familiar/has experience with singers!)
3. If/Once you are formally diagnosed as tongue tied, pursue tongue tie release surgery, making sure you do myo exercises both before and after surgery with a myo expert.
(4. Consult a voice technician who specializes in eliminating compensations if you still have some technique and or singing-muscular issues post release)
5. Live your new life tongue-tension free and with a happy, free, isolated tongue! Yay!
While singing and opening the mouth, should we press the tongue to the top of the mouth? Because in any case there is a gap between them
Well, if you press the tongue to the top of your mouth, you won't be able to speak, cause it can't make the pronunciation. What I do is to feel the sides of the tongue at the upper molar teeth, gently gliding on them. That brings it up, but not in the way of pronunciation.
Does the position of the tongue change when moving from low to high notes?
Most singing teacher would agree that it should. Within the classical-singing world, my opinion and most teachers agree that the back of the tongue should get higher as the pitch gets higher, but there are some conflicting views.
Is it normal to experience headache and discomfort in the tongue root when correcting tongue posture?
Hello! It is COMMON but it is not IDEAL or NORMAL. Sometimes both can occur when we are correcting tongue posture at first (maybe within two weeks) but anything beyond that could point to further potential issues, the most common being: 1. Extremely restricted tongue (especially in the posterior portion) that prevents the tongue from lifting freely and causes pain and/or discomfort 2. lack of adequate space in the upper arch/maxillary area which can cause TMJ pain/discomfort and headaches. In my personal experience, my past clients who had severe headaches etc were also my clients with the most restrictive posterior tongue ties. If you are past two weeks, I highly recommend you seek further guidance from an Orofacial Myologist, Myofunctional Therapist, and/or an airway focused orthodontist or dentist- they should be able to give answers more specific to you! Wishing you well xx.
@@OpusMyo thanks for the response. I just started correcting my posture 2 days ago and I noticed the discomfort. Fortunately it doesn't seem like I have a posterior tongue tie, as I can stretch it to the roof of my mouth just fine without any restriction. And I wouldn't say the headache I have is severe but it's just uncomfortable accompanied by some soreness in the tongue root.
a low and forward tongue, espeically if it has tendency to rest against teeth, often times is caused by a head that is too far forward, and not anything to do with weakness, but actually over compensation due to a weak/tight mandible and lack of neural feedback to keep your spine aligned from hips to head.
check out PRI institutes work for more.
Yes, that can be a factor! (PRI is wonderful, I have worked with many of their instructors personally :) ) Tongue ties can also be another facet of this same issue, as the tissue completely prevents the tongue from being in any other position. However there are many sleep apneacs and even some kiddos who have great mobility but poor muscle tone. People can have both! Mike Cantrell (PRI) and Dr. Elizabeth Caughy DDS (local colleagues of mine) are currently researching this exact thing!
@@OpusMyo very interesting. Since the tongue is basically dominating the mandible, I could see how a tongue tie would lead to jaw problems which would affect the whole skeleton above and below. Also affect the ears, eyes, and breathing, which would disturb the neural system even more leading to more dysfunction and possibly directional dominance leaning either forward, back, or to one side. I’m about an hour away from self administering my own tongue tie cut as an experiment 😅
and dont worry that is just a joke at the end. I arleady destroyed my tongue tie as a kid when the ear part of glasses shoved under my tongue and ripped it apart@@OpusMyo
@@taborgreat Yes! Many of my clients with tongue ties also have ear-draining improvements, headache improvements, and even pelvic floor improvements due to decreased tension in the deep front fascial line. A tongue tie assessment certainly couldn't hurt!!!
IMO pushing your tongue high, and in the same sentence suggesting it's at rest, is a contradiction. I'll go try it anyway.
The tongue is up because it is under suction- it shouldn't be muscularly held up, otherwise, yes, that would be exhausting!
I bet you with such tongue posture you can't even sing a word.
Absolute rubbish Why? Correct tongue position is learned as a result of forming vowels in chest voice. A competent teacher of the Italian school can teach this by example.
Well, obviously I disagree, mostly because there are infinite ways to make any one vowel sound; I can make what sounds like a perfect Italian /a/, but also add additional muscle groups not required, which will lead to tongue tension and strain and overuse. Also, I personally find that teaching by example can be dangerous- many people are physically built differently in their mouths/tongue just as much as we are all different on the outside. People with different rib shapes have slightly different methods of breath inhalation. And what if I, a heavy soprano, taught a light tenor? If I only taught by example of what I do and not what they need, I would not be serving them- in fact, I could damage them unintentionally. Lastly, I am a fan, and indeed, user, of the Italian operatic school, so I don't disagree with any of the ideas, but I find that teaching with all metaphors/visualizations can lead to a LOT of confusion- even amongst singers who already have professional careers- I've personally seen this happen quite a lot. Just my two cents!