I think just one thing to remember with engine braking (without using brakes as well) is that the brake light will not light up and drivers coming up behind may not realize that you're slowing down. Even with only slowing down a little your position on the road could be badly estimated by other road users, especialy seeing how motorcycles are already easilly overlooked.
You don't want your brakes melting because you've been dumping loads of heat into them, why not dump heat into something that can handle it (like an engine).
Been doing it for over 45 years. Never ever hurt anything. Plus it does help bring it to a stop. I have been where brakes and engine brought it down to save my bacon from stupid.
In the advanced training here in the UK, the preference for normal rising is rolling off the throttle and downshifting over braking, with a couple of taps of the rear brake just to show a light. They like to see you planning ahead rather than reacting. For me, it's a case of using all the available tools.
+CalmBiker I addressed this "using all the available tools" thing in the video. There is no invisible third wheel. There's nothing the engine braking does that your rear brake can't do better. However, staying in the correct gear is a good discipline. Downshifting as you decelerate is important; in order to stay in the appropriate gear. But it isn't "stopping better". And yes, being proactive is essential! Though I'd recommend in any situation when you're slowing down, to apply SOME front and rear brake (and more than just a tap, but holding to keep the brake light illuminated), in order to develop the very important muscle memory. In an emergency, you want to instinctively apply both breaks. The MSF, and some studies (including the famous HURT report) have concluded that a major contributor to serious motorcycle accidents is the application of just one brake. Usually the result of complacently riding using just one brake all the time, because it's sufficient to slow them down in a typical, day to day situation. I'm a big proponent of braking ALWAYS in the same 'position' that we'd brake in an emergency, so that we'll automatically go to that in an emergency.
+Romans Five|Eight When I say "using all the available tools", I don't mean that you would gain an advantage by doing all three at once. I mean that I vary what I do depending upon the situation. However, there are people who will brake from high speed to nothing without changing gear. This means that you either have to hold the clutch in to avoid stalling or you have the engine pushing you forward as you slow down. In those cases I would argue that your control of the bike is suffering as a result. You have to take into account the type of bike as well. On a sports bike the vast majority of braking is on the front brake. Engine braking or rear braking have an effect but it is very low and may well lead to a lock up under heavy braking. On a heavier bike, particularly a cruiser with a lot of weight over the rear wheel, rear braking is much more important. The main part is to know your machine and its characteristics and know how to get the best braking performance then practise, practise, practise.
Just slowing down by shutting the throttle is what I call Engine Braking, changing down and letting the clutch out slowly is what I call Clutch Braking. Clutch Braking is vastly underestimated and misunderstood. Although Clutch Braking can make the rear wheel break traction if done a little too violently, you are much less likely to actually lock the rear wheel totally, simply because the engine is still going forward. Because of this, Clutch Braking gives you a massive advantage especially in poor grip conditions, in the rain or on gravel etc. Your rear brake is fixed to the frame so can lock the rear wheel which is 'bad'. Slight use of the rear brake, coupled with Clutch and Engine Braking will make the bike stop with much less dynamic weight transfer to the front wheel, leaving you with much more front suspension travel available and be in better control of the motorcycle as a result. Clutch Braking can also give you an extra 5 miles per gallon of fuel, as opposed to rev matching which uses fuel to rev the engine but is mostly wasted.
I have found with my Kawi Vulcan 900C that it engine brakes a LOT on its own. If I let off the throttle just a bit I can drop as much as 20mph in no time. I did not realize just how much or often this takes place until I began riding with a friend of mine and he told me my tail light was not working . We checked and found out it was but I was just letting off the throttle in top gear and my speed was dropping significantly. I then began to apply my front brake just enough o warn others when even letting off the gas. I would recommend always doing this if you are going to engine brake. It warns others behind you that you are slowing down.
+Ted Smith Yes, using the brakes is important. Your 900 engine brakes so well because of it's low gearing. At 65mph in top gear your turning 4,000 RPM's. The faster the engine is spinning, the more engine braking force it'll apply when the throttle is let off.
I've always used engine braking on my bikes as long as I can remember. I've got over 65,000 miles on my current bike with the original clutch and brake pads, so I know it helps in the long run.
On a chain or belt driven rear wheel I only do engine braking moderately. On a shaft driven rear wheel I use it a touch harder changing down 1 to 2 gears depending on the situation. I have all 3 systems on my bikes. My personal preference is the Shaft.
The belt on the 1700 Vaquero in the video is a very stiff carbon fiber belt, power transfer is solid without the driveline loss of a shaft, so it actually 'feels' a bit like a shaft in that regard.
Dude! I am a brand new rookie rider with a 96 Yamaha Virago 750 and your videos have seriously helped me learn to ride this cruiser more than you know! I appreciate this man thanks for doing what you do.
5th gear clutch disengaged Front and Rear brakes applied to 30% rear 40% front... speed dropping and from there is just all clutch... squeeze, downshift 4th release slowly... squeeze, downshift 3rd release slowly... squeeze, downshift 2nd release slowly...
I engine brake always, it's like something I do naturally. I like to do it because being in the correct ESCAPE GEAR may save you and your bike one day when the dude isn't paying attention behind you. When I am slowing I also am tapping my brakes to let the driver behind me know that I'm slowing. I literally flash them many, many times to get their attention as I am going down through the gears. Not at all concerned about brake wear or clutch wear, just want to make sure there is not unnecessary wear on ME!
I've ridden motorcycle for 30 years. I came into it from having ridden bicycle competitively and from having traffic-jammed for many years. I didn't own a car. My experience on the 10-speed was that it was important to have the right gear handy at the right time, or else my legs would have to bring me up to speed sufficient to crest the next hill. If I were to use that as an analogy, I'd want to have the right gear handy for when I need it. You covered that very well. Thank you.
+Norman Teck Absolutely Norman; good analogy! I'm a bicyclist as well. Though they've come a long way since those iconic ten speeds! My current steep is a carbon fiber bike with 22 speeds! (11 speed cassette on the back).
Around town, I do rpm matching and downshifting plus use of brakes This can be a really good thing if you've got to get on it to get out of harms way, and brake lights let cars know what I'm doing. Mountain riding and long downhill runs are a whole other story. I use a lot of engine braking there to avoid baking the brakes. Even excellent brakes like on my bike (BMW R1200RT) need some relief from heat due to long downhill braking. Good to see you back John ! Thanks for the video.
When you engine brake & apply some front/rear brake so people behind you know your braking, you are infact in more control of the bike then just using your brakes alone and pulling the clutch in. Remember pulling the clutch in and holding it there your are actually loosing all of your control on the bike. If you down shift and let the clutch go your are infact engine braking. Worst thing to do it pulling clutch in and holding in then using the brakes to stop. Engine braking, popping the throttle and using some brakes is the safest way to come to a stop or pre-pair for a corner then you can also use trail braking or use the engine braking as a trail brake. I love engine braking especially on my Triumph which has a 270 degree crank which gives you more engine brake.
My grandfather raced bikes back in his day, and rode daily for over 30 years, I remember him telling me that I must make sure that I'am always riding in the correct gear for the speed and conditions that I was travelling in or at. He said he found engine braking was a very effective way to slow down a motorcycle, plus it also ensured the bike was in the correct gear. I have always heeded this advice from him and find that it really works well. However in an emergency braking situation I still use my front brakes and apply them in a three stage grab. Clutch in. 1. Pull the front brake in about 1cm. 2. Pull in about 2cm. 3. Pull the brake all the way in. This has saved my butt on a couple of occasions. I would like to hear what you think of this method. I'am far from an expert but have 10 years and about 240000km under my belt riding 6 days a week in all sorts of weather conditions. Iam always wanting to learn more and become a better and safer rider. Stay safe and keep the shiny side up.
People who race or ride higher performance do tend to like the RPM's to be a bit higher. It all depends on riding style. Personally; I don't think that's the best route. You never want to lug the engine; but while decelerating or riding at a constant speed; keeping engine RPM's low is best for fuel economy and for keeping wear and tear out of the engine.
I have a 93 vulcan 500. It is geared so low that I can putt around at 35 mph in 6th and it not be bogged down too bad. At 65 or 70 on the highway, she is screaming. I don't have to use my brakes half the time because of the gearing. Engine braking is just kind of like an auto brake for me when I let off the throttle. If I am in heavy traffic I will still pull the front brake lever back enough to activate the switch when slowing down without brakes. I am a very defensive rider so I try not to put myself into situations that require heavy braking. But when I do use my brake, it is mostly front brake unless it is heavy braking, then I use both front and rear.
Generally the larger the capacity of the motorcycle the better the engine will brake as you are creating larger pumping losses behind the vacuum closed butterfly valve (greater volume of air being moved etc.) You'll also find motorcycles with a larger reciprocating mass in the engine (think of very sturdy adventure bikes, single cylinders etc.) will be less responsive as the reciprocating parts carry less inertia while a sports bike engine is built with a lower reciprocating mass to make it more responsive. So a rider used to a Kawasaki Ninja 300 (low capacity, responsive twin) would need quite an adjustment to ride a Kawasaki KLR 650 (larger capacity, study single.)
i accidentally downshift the gear in high speed and my engine roars. and i wonder what adverse effect does it make to my motorcycle engine. i did downshift from 3rd gear high speed to secondary! i hope my engine is fine.
I always engine brake. Mostly for simple easy slowing when coming to a stop sign or red light. Now if I have to brake harder like the light just changed then I don't. I use my real brakes. The engine is just a means of a "controlled" braking. Well for me at least. I know I'm a little rough out with clutches but I'm used an old manual truck with no power.
Hi John. Good to see you here again. I do both. Sometimes I will add some break just to help traffic behind me notice I'm slowing down. Brake lights are a good thing.
The point of engine braking is that is better than actual brakes, the reason is save your rear brakes from being used up. So you are slowing down for free since the piston compressing air (with min fuel) depletes your kinetic energy and slows you down without spending anything.
I hesitate to comment simply because the last comment made on this appears to have been a year ago. I grew up driving eighteen wheelers and using dual transmissions, ie; five and a four. I learned about forty years ago that when you have your transmission and gear boxes in a no-load match where rpm is common you can slide in and out of gear effortlessly. You did an example in the video of slight revving on a down shift. Actually, iy you ease throttle just before the shift (split second) It is a habit for me and I do it without thinking, you can go down to the next gear by holding the throttle exactly where it is and shift. When you shift it will automatically increase rpm in the moment it is in a no-load status while the clutch is engaged and it will re-engage at the precise rpm it needed to be at. I don't know if I explained that clearly but I do it all of the time. I down shift as I slow and always keep by the engine at the best power range. I ride a Victory Octane and redline is 8300. There is a sweet spot at 4000 rpm and I try to keep it in that range as I come down. If I ever need to move in an emergency I am at the right power and in the right gear with no searching or multiple downshifts.I may not always do this around town but on a ride when riding the mountain roads and byways I always do it, it is a habit. It also means you can make a smooth shift in almost any condition.
There are indeed newer comments, RUclips by default shows "top comments" first, those that have received the most "upvotes". What you're talking about is staying in the optimal gear; which I think is crucial. What I'm addressing, mostly, in the video is this: I see motorcyclists using downshifting exclusively to slow their bike down. This creates a bad habit, adds time to braking and it's all to avoid what is a very simple and inexpensive maintenance task. At least, in my opinion!
I use engine braking - a lot. But I use it WITH my other brakes. Because as you and many other commenters have pointed out, it ensures that you are in the proper gear for returning to speed.
Engine breaking also puts extra wear on the rear tire...whether or not you hear the tire “chirp” or not, it adds wear...brake pads are cheaper and I’m yet to wear out brake pads prematurely.
I tend to ride with a combination of both. I think the rise of everything being an automatic has reduced peoples understanding of what’s going on. My first car was fairly under braked - so I long downhills, I did have to use engine braking or risk running out of brakes (rear drum, unventilated front disk) I did experience this, so I can see why engine braking might be considered unnecessary with modern brakes. I tend to engine brake as I am slowing down to an intersection as well as brake in the final stages. I am not doing it because I want to save brake pads - I’m doing it because it’s under control (vs pulling the clutch in)
another reason engine braking is important is for control when slowing down from a high speed. You've got a cruiser so the weight is very much in the centre. Sport bikes have their weight in the front. When you press each brake, rear and front, the weight of the bike is transferred to that end of the bike. Engine braking will send some of that force to the centre of the bike giving you more control. An experiment to prove this, try braking using your rear/front brake when you're in neutral and the bike is moving without the engine engaged. Now try the same with the engine engaged. The engine is always going to brake because of friction and will slow you down, engine braking, allows you to gain more control over that aspect.
I engine brake , it doesn't hurt the bike and you learn how to listen to ur bike. I often engine brake when riding into curves if I'm being lazy or coming to a light a few blocks away, I just engine break until the light turn then I take off again. Good video Ride safe😎
'Linear control'; you're absolutely bang on. It's all about knowing your systems and how to control them. Has nothing to do with saving pads. Great video!
I especially use engine braking going down hill, on a bike or in a car. It's not about saving the brake pads, but it helps prevent brake-fade from overheating brakes, especially low quality pads. I had it happen once in a car and it's not nice. It's also a habit carried over from limited 4X4 experience where the brakes can cause you to lock up and loose control while the engine never will (unless it seizes), but really it's just a preference thing; I just feel more comfortable attacking corners in a lower gear.
Yep. I don't think I articulated myself well. That's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. Maintaining speed down a hill, etc., that's fine. I know many people who never touch their brakes, who just downshift to come to a stop at a stoplight, etc. I think that creates bad habits.
Yep. I don't think I articulated myself well. That's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. Maintaining speed down a hill, etc., that's fine. I know many people who never touch their brakes, who just downshift to come to a stop at a stoplight, etc. I think that creates bad habits.
Engine braking extends the life of your brake pads. You don't substitute braking with engine braking, you simply use it to take some of the load off your brakes and increase the intervals between pad replacement. Kind of a no brainer. And yes, it's good thing.
Brake pads aren't very expensive, even good ones; and the replacement is pretty simple. Especially on a motorcycle. It's about a 15 minute job on my Vulcan. You give up a bit of modulation and control when engine braking. It's not necessarily a bad thing; but I just am not convinced that brake pad wear is that big of a deal. Brake pads occasionally needs replacing, oil needs changing, tires need replacing. It's all wear and tear. Preserving very expensive and difficult to service items, like the engine and transmission; are critical. But it seems like a lot of hoops to jump through to eek out a few hundred to a couple thousand extra miles on a set of sub-$30 brake pads that can be replaced in 15 minutes.
Engine braking is used only in absolute emergency situations... Or when riding a supersport and riding well above traffic conditions (again safety issue) It's cheaper to buy a new set of pads than a new engine
I don't have a radio on my Honda Stateline 1300 , I mainly engine brake for the Music ! No serious , every stop I incorporate Front & Rear brake & downshift ( equally ) I do this every time I ride .... Maybe it comes natural to me cause I used to spend a lot of time off-road w/ dirt bikes. But , I think I mainly do it for the music ... Lol-
I tend to use engine braking if I only want to bleed off a bit of speed, only using fairly low revs, often staying around 2000 revs, enough revs to accelarate if required (1990 ZX10) So there is some braking and some controllable accelaration to be had when necessary. If I need more stopping power then I would brake, instead of changing down earlier, On steep downhills I do use the engine to help hold the bike back, just as I do when driving a car or van. Once in the chosen gear you are not wearing the clutch, only spinning the engine and on a long slope this can save you cooking your brakes.
+Phil Wood Finally someone who gets what engine braking really is. I do exactly the same as you while ensuring I activate the brake light by ever so lightly touching the rear brake pedal while engine braking so other cars can see me slowing down.
I'm 16 and not yet riding, but I was watching this video and realized that you are in the Union area. I live in Chesterfield (the QuikTrip you passed is 45 minutes from me) and thought it was cool that a motovlogger lived so close. The ones I usually watch are in Texas, California, Kansas or Georgia.
Repeat after me: Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift. Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift. Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift. Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift. Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur. Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur. Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur. Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur.
Engine breaking when it is wet is not fun. I guess I don't really think about this topic too much, but yes, I do use the engine unless I need to come to a quick stop.
I pretty much just use engine braking to slow down while maintaining the perfect gear and powerband. engine braking towards a red light is convenient because the moment it turns green you're ready to regain speed and keep moving. Otherwise I'll end up downshifting too far and when the light turns green I'm in too low a gear for my speed and have to do some guesswork to get it back into businesses mode.
There are lights on the market that do flash just by engine braking. My brother has some on his bike. So anytime the sensor in the light detects a slowing of the bike, be it engine brake or actual brake, the lights flash. I'll be putting them on mine as well.
+Alex Dalziel Lightly touch the rear brake pedal to activate the brake light. You need to test this out in the garage though and adjust the sensor to activate with a light touch before you actually go out into traffic and do it. Otherwise, you may not be activating the light at all.
On my cbt in the UK I was told that you should use engine breaking pretty much as much as you can without even touching the breaks, apart from coming to a complete stop of course
The rear brake does not get a lot of wear and tear. Using engine brake to save the rear brakes is not really needed. It's just easier sometimes in traffic and certain road conditions to use engine braking.
I use engine braking and I think you really hit the nail when you pointed out that it's real benefit is the control factor. Anytime we slow down on a motorcycle in traffic we are watching the mirrors to make sure the following vehicles are aware. If you avoid engine braking for whatever reason and use brakes only…this can mean you don't have the ability to immediately 'escape a danger' through acceleration At least not as efficiently than if you are in the right gear for your bikes speed. For me ….it's kind of like ..if you slow down significantly without downshifting and using the brakes only you are kind of akin to putting the vehicle in neutral and sacrificing a great deal of control over the bike. Just my thoughts.
+willyb933 I agree. Though you can also downshift with the clutch in to accomplish the same thing (I do both), staying in the right gear is essential. I'll admit! In my experience, situations where you need to 'power away from something' are very rare, situations where you need to stop immediately are more common. So I focus on the latter. But I always stay in the appropriate gear.
It's the best way to slow down when going down a hill or mountains. When going up a mountain, check what speed you are in and it will be the same going down.
Glad to see ya again...hope you've been good. I usually don't engine brake in traffic only because I need people to see my brake lights and to know my intentions... But very good vlog. God bless & always ride safe!
I would say every one who rides a bike should learn how how to engine break efficiently because one day you'll be out riding and maybe one day your breaks will fail for what ever reason so therefore your need to know how to slow down with the transmission.
“rear brake will lock up the wheel" doesn't necessary mean that is powerful enough, because "will lock up" is not equal to "immediately lock up", you lock up the wheel after slow it down a bit. Using engine brake to cut down engine output and even reverse the effect definitely boost the process to slow it down. Lets say if you going down a hill, which one is easier for making sure your vehicle is running at a slower speed? sole rear brake or engine brake?
In that case, keeping the bike in a lower gear and "engine braking" is the preferred solution; to prevent overheating the brake and glazing the pads. The behavior I'm referring to is when people choose not to use their brakes, and instead just downshift as they approach a light. That gets them out of the muscle memory habit of using both brakes. If an emergency happens, you're going to do whatever you've always done, or you'll hesitate. If you always stop using both brakes, no matter what; then you'll use both brakes in an emergency. If you lazily grab one brake or always just downshift, you might hesitate or fail to use both brakes. No matter how smart, or experienced you think you are; muscle memory matters. When police officers train with their weapons, they always draw them the exact same way; so if they ever need it, they'll draw it exactly the right way. When firefighters train, they always get ready in the exact same order. That way, when they do get a call and the adrenaline is pumping; nothing is forgotten. Motorcyclists, too, should exercise rote repetition in the way they control their bikes; so the muscle memory is there should it ever need called upon. Most modern bikes will have a rear brake capable of instantly locking up the rear tire. Mine has ABS, so it won't lock up the rear tire; but in fact it'll need the ABS to push back on it to prevent it!
I'm a newbie but I engine brake all the time especially in traffic to maintain distance. I'll down shift if I need to slow down faster and I f I really need to slow down fast I'll use the back then front brake.
+lmdetect Yes, though it's a good practice to apply some front brake at minimum; both to illuminate the light and to be ready to brake hard in an emergency. One shouldn't ever rely on JUST engine braking.
one thing you did not tell us is if you have short headers or straight pipes down shifting/engine braking can cause cold air to suck up in to heads damaging valves. Which is a good reason to not buy short exhaust pipes
You engine brake to shift the weight rearward/downward, usually before a curve, then you start to roll on the throttle while trail-breaking into the the turn, then you roll more on while fading off the brake as you hit apex, then roll it on out of the curve. BTW NEVER engine break a shaft driven. You can run at lower speeds at higher RPM to go down a mountain with a shaft, but don't use it to stop. Your worm gear will thank you. So, a shaft drive you end up matching RPM and using brake before you enter a curve. And always drag rear brake on a engine break to light the brake or get a VOLO unit to light the brakes due to deceleration, not brake lever.
its called controlling the friction zone. there is nothing wrong with engine breaking. the reason i do it, is nothing about saving brakes, and im not worried about clutch plates. i do it because its another tool in slowing down and control of the bike
+poet99999 Actually, I think you'll have much more control JUST using the brakes; that's the point. The brakes are more linear and have far better modulation. You only have one rear tire, and chances are your rear brake is well capable of locking it up. So there's no "extra braking power" from engine braking. BUT; keeping it in the right gear IS important. Nothing wrong with engine braking; but it is LESS control, not more, when it comes to decelerating.
If you're in a place where everything is flat, it doesn't matter much, but don't attempt to drive your big, heavy bike down from a mountain using service brakes only. Not a hill. A mountain. You'll burn them up and you end up in a mountainside or off the edge when you suddenly have no brakes anymore. Not fun.
I didn't articulate it well, but I was more talking about the practice of coming to a stop at intersections, etc., with the engine instead of the brakes. I think that's a bad habit, because I think riders should always be in the habit of slowing and stopping the bike with the brakes, because it keeps us sharp should we need to stop in an emergency. MAINTAINING speed down a steep hill or mountain is best done in the appropriate gear; i.e., engine braking!
Engine braking, its just habbit. Driving flatbed most of my adult life you learn to use the transmission to help slow the truck down and aid in breaking. Smoking the brakes on a semi is not a great idea. Unlikely on a motorcycle to overheat the pads.
+Hazzardousmat For sure. I engine brake too; I just make sure not to rely on it and always have the brakes applied as well. I would think it would be hard to overheat the brakes on a motorcycle indeed. Perhaps a long mountain descent.
Engine braking....saves on brakes, saves on fuel (EFI bikes), has you in the correct gear when time to apply the throttle again. No reason not to do it.....just as long as you know how to rev match along with it. Locking up your back tire will pucker your arse-hole if you don't.
thank you very much, I actually have one of those cramp busters, maintaining a constant speed, is a problem , I actually believe due poor throttle control. issues, and lack experience.
I'm a subscriber, good video as always.With this recent flooding and being in the Union, Mo. area, hope all is OK with you and Family.I live in Oakville, Mo area, and more roads are being closed! Can't believe Hwy 44 is closed for a long portion.Take care.
+B Schmidt Thank you so much for asking! We're fine. I live in a neighboring community and am well above ground. Though it's a little tough to get out and go anywhere. Thankfully, I Pastor a church here in town and don't NEED to go far, though I have a couple folks in a St. Louis area hospital that it's going to be tough to reach. The area you see pictured in the video is mostly underwater right now.
to be honest wear is wear. if you engine break you are putting wear on the most expensive parts. it overtime will decrease the engine and tranny parts. it's happening no matter what. breaks are easy to replace and cheap and the at home mechanic can easily master. having said all this I do both myself. it's fun. and part of riding is to have fun. just decide what is good for your pocket book.
+Greg Demott I'm not convinced the wear of engine braking is that significant though; acceleration forces are more significant and you do those all the time!
It is over time. Friction is friction. It does not change for one party over another. It's simple science. In order to abate forward constant that inertia needs to transfer somewhere. Clutch plates are notorious tough. But you are putting wear on them reducing their serviceable life. And unless you are capable it's harder to do than brake changes. But to see any savings you would have to never engine brake. Like I said I do both add do anyone who wants to enjoy riding. But don't think that engine breaking isn't wearing parts. Turning the bike on its wearing parts is just a matter how much wear you are going to risk over the life of the bike. Look at it this way, if you were buying a used bike and you had two identical bikes. One was used all the time ermine breaking the other had gone through multiple brakes and never engine brake. Which would you buy?
On my old VStar 1100 I would engine break all the time. If I did not blip the throttle it would be quit jerky. Even at the lower end of the gears I could take off the throttle and have that engine break feeling. Now though I have a Honda CTX700DCT, little hard to blip that bike :)
But yeah a secondary reason is to just stay in the right gear, if I’m just braking for a light or a stop sign or whatever I just downshift. If I have to slow down fast I use the brakes
Guys you are confusing two things here. Engine braking means to let your RPMs go higher when going downhill until the point that they dont go any higher, and you are not accelerating anymore. Otherwise (like shown in the video) you are braking with your CLUTCH not your ENGINE. Dont mess it up..
+Matej Kováč Everyone has their own terms; but yes. I'm referring to slowing to a stop with the engine, (you're not using the 'clutch' to brake because the clutch has no resistance itself; you're still using the compression of the engine to actually slow you down; the clutch is just an intermediary) not to keeping a constant speed on an incline with the engine.
kinda do both .depends on situation ... like if am slowing down anyway .. say from 4th .. and i think the bike is doing 3rd speed..ill drop it 3rd ...and so on ......4,3,2,1 ...but not use the engine to brake to harshly ...like doing 5th speed and dropping it down to 3rd .. lol . but saying that i very rarly use 1st gear anyay tbh as it dont offer much power before you need to change to 2nd... so i use 2nd as my start gear ..
I learned how to accidentally but not in a bad sort of way, id slow down with the clutch pulled in, guess the gear then and shift to where I need for downshifting let off the brakes then the clutch and I havent had anything but smooth shifts but the other day going to church I was racing and in a maybe 80ft area I slowed from 80 to 45mph (in fifth gear on a 2015 dr200) shifted down, shifted down which is when it engine braked , from the sound I was 1.5k rpm short of redlining and I slowed down quick enough for the fire fighters to check out and I cruised into the empty churchs parking lot going 30mph on dirt and loose rocks pulling up uncomfortably quick to park an inch from the curb xD only 107.9 miles on the motor but I swear it feels like second nature for my first geared motorcycle
I downshift if a car is coming to an intersection and Keep activating brakes in a flashing method. If I see somebody texting I'll lane split even though its illegal.
Brake pads cost dollars the extra wear isn't worth it. If you are too aggressive with downshift you can stall your engine which will lock up your real wheel. Just like you said engine braking doesn't add anymore braking than the rear brake. If a person tries to engine brake to a stop it will stall the engine.
Any REAL rider or driver will engine brake, period. Because they Know their Gearing. But you really want to engine brake AND "touch" your brakes too. I'm obsessed with being in the Right gear at any given moment, so I'm always flinging threw gears around turns or while stopping. But it really depends on what you're riding. If you're on a big fat cruiser....probably don't need to so much...but on a sport bike or performance engine YES.
+Mike Fu Absolutely, you should always be in the right gear! But the brakes are king. More modulation, and more consistent power. You shouldn't be relying on engine braking primarily; that shifts the braking entirely to the rear and it's in big 'chunks'; not the modulation you get from using your actual brakes.
I'll drive the motorcycle on the throttle out on the highway just using light engine braking to bleed off speed to match other traffic, maintain following distances etc. That said in an emergency stop I was always taught and practice disengaging the clutch and just worrying about stopping the bike. Also I'll sometime dab the rear brake very lightly to activate the sensor if I feel someone is closer behind me than I would like, just flashes the brake light at them of course as a polite "If you get any closer behind me we'll need a condom mate."
i use down shifting during rideing and breaking 40 percent rear and 60 front i made the mistake of locking rear wheel on road marking ie turn arrow or white lane marking like your video various use for prpoer riding
Okay okay okay. This is a perspective from someone with advanced technology breaks. Yes in your case, engine braking offers no real benefit. I have a 2005 Nomad that benefit greatly from engine braking. Let me tell you why I think it does. Engine braking work as a pseudo anti-lock braking system commonly known as a BS. It keeps the brakes from locking up while when downshifting at higher RPMs much more effective Breaking Benjamin slamming on your rear brake. When solid and effective engine braking is combined with front and rear braking in an emergency situation the bike stops faster than any other way. Anybody that has ridden hard Motocross, those as fast as they can out of a turn and wait as long as they can until they go into the next turn will know that the combination of using all free gives the best chance of slowing down just enough in the turns and guaranteed to be in the proper gear when it's time to launch out. In short, yes engine braking is very effective. Do I believe it tears my clutch up, it's not doing it any favors. Hope everyone has a nice day. And go ride your bike, quit watching videos. LOL
John, I've just recently begun process of shopping for my first motorcycle, and I found your channel. I really enjoy the videos you do. I do have a question: have you ever considered trying to find a source of bikes to ride and review for your channel? There is a young guy down in Atlanta who has relationship with a dealer there that allows him to do "first rides" on many different bikes. Unfortunately, he's a LOT younger than I am, and the bikes he tends to feature are not the same ones I would be interested in.
I'd love that opportunity, but I'm not sure who is around me who would offer that. There's really only one dealership of decent size and it's over an hour away, and I just don't think I'd have the time, even if they did offer it, to do something like that.
As an add to that; I think the best reviews come when you've got some time to really put the bike through it's paces. My reviews of both of my bikes have been done as an owner.
Hey man, first off your videos are great. Just subscribed :) keep posting new videos, it's been a while since you uploaded one. I'm new to riding, just getting used to it, got myself a new bike so watching videos here and there to know more about riding. Whenever possible could you make a vlog on shifting and downshifting the gears the right way. It'll be great if you do. Cheers :)
my question is, I have an 07 v star 1100, but I'm thinking about a used Goldwing, for more touring comfort I know its a beast of a bike but I see little ladies ride them. my bike rides good but I feel like I'm sitting to low and I cant straighten out my legs, plus I miss having one and all the toys on Goldwings.
You may want to sit on a Goldwing first, it has a standard mid control riding position instead of a feed forward position like large V-Twin cruisers. You probably won't be able to stretch out on a Goldwing.
Brakes arent that bad off an idea...cars behind hopefully see your brake lights. No lights...dont blame the car behind that doesnt notice your slowing down.
I use engine braking just to stay in the power band. Not so much to slow down, and I usually give it a little blip of throttle anyway just to lessen the shock to the drive train and that kind of mitigates the engine braking a bit. (way more engine braking if you just let out the clutch but it's not smooth). My riding style is just to be as smooth as possible. Even in traffic. Do you have a video of how you handle stop and go traffic? I have to ride my bike during my commute at walking speeds and slower. I ride a 1500cc goldwing and you learn to slip the clutch while on the rear brake. It might be helpful for some newer riders with big bikes to show them that technique. It's easy to ride fast, it's much harder to ride a 900lb bike slow. =)
+Urban Madness I shot a video on low speed handling but actually lost it, I need to re-do it. Ultimately, it's all about that clutch control. My preference for stop-and-go traffic, to save the clutch, is to let traffic move ahead of me a little, then catch up. Personally, I wouldn't drag the clutch and brake at the same time, you're just wearing both. You should be able to control a bike the size of ours with just the clutch.
The clutch is actually designed to take it on the wings. Rear brakes are cheap so I'm not concerned, especially if it gives extra control. Again, I'd like to see how you do it. I'll shot a video on how I do it and then we can compare notes.
I think just one thing to remember with engine braking (without using brakes as well) is that the brake light will not light up and drivers coming up behind may not realize that you're slowing down. Even with only slowing down a little your position on the road could be badly estimated by other road users, especialy seeing how motorcycles are already easilly overlooked.
That's why you lightly press the brakes while engine braking.
@@Shane7492 specifically the rear break first. cause front break is too much for high speed braking.
That's why I slightly press down the rear brake
when u EB you also apply rear brake , reason for this is when u hv been on fast ride
The best reason to engine brake is to hear that sweet, sweet purrr
lool
My sporty with shoot a flame every once in a while dudes break their neck looking
Im surprised nobody mentioned this, but I mostly use engine braking to slow down on hills and mountains, especially when it rains.
+KoshSonofAiur Yeah, for sure!
wow I didnt know that good tip
good point.... deffo good for downhill and raining
You don't want your brakes melting because you've been dumping loads of heat into them, why not dump heat into something that can handle it (like an engine).
Your brakes aren’t melting.
I honestly don't even think about it when I engine brake, but I do it all the time. Not for any particular reason, now you got me thinking about it.
Been doing it for over 45 years. Never ever hurt anything. Plus it does help bring it to a stop. I have been where brakes and engine brought it down to save my bacon from stupid.
In the advanced training here in the UK, the preference for normal rising is rolling off the throttle and downshifting over braking, with a couple of taps of the rear brake just to show a light. They like to see you planning ahead rather than reacting. For me, it's a case of using all the available tools.
+CalmBiker I addressed this "using all the available tools" thing in the video. There is no invisible third wheel. There's nothing the engine braking does that your rear brake can't do better. However, staying in the correct gear is a good discipline. Downshifting as you decelerate is important; in order to stay in the appropriate gear. But it isn't "stopping better".
And yes, being proactive is essential! Though I'd recommend in any situation when you're slowing down, to apply SOME front and rear brake (and more than just a tap, but holding to keep the brake light illuminated), in order to develop the very important muscle memory. In an emergency, you want to instinctively apply both breaks. The MSF, and some studies (including the famous HURT report) have concluded that a major contributor to serious motorcycle accidents is the application of just one brake. Usually the result of complacently riding using just one brake all the time, because it's sufficient to slow them down in a typical, day to day situation. I'm a big proponent of braking ALWAYS in the same 'position' that we'd brake in an emergency, so that we'll automatically go to that in an emergency.
+Romans Five|Eight When I say "using all the available tools", I don't mean that you would gain an advantage by doing all three at once. I mean that I vary what I do depending upon the situation. However, there are people who will brake from high speed to nothing without changing gear. This means that you either have to hold the clutch in to avoid stalling or you have the engine pushing you forward as you slow down. In those cases I would argue that your control of the bike is suffering as a result.
You have to take into account the type of bike as well. On a sports bike the vast majority of braking is on the front brake. Engine braking or rear braking have an effect but it is very low and may well lead to a lock up under heavy braking. On a heavier bike, particularly a cruiser with a lot of weight over the rear wheel, rear braking is much more important.
The main part is to know your machine and its characteristics and know how to get the best braking performance then practise, practise, practise.
My mum should learn to ride 2 wheelers
Just slowing down by shutting the throttle is what I call Engine Braking, changing down and letting the clutch out slowly is what I call Clutch Braking. Clutch Braking is vastly underestimated and misunderstood. Although Clutch Braking can make the rear wheel break traction if done a little too violently, you are much less likely to actually lock the rear wheel totally, simply because the engine is still going forward. Because of this, Clutch Braking gives you a massive advantage especially in poor grip conditions, in the rain or on gravel etc. Your rear brake is fixed to the frame so can lock the rear wheel which is 'bad'. Slight use of the rear brake, coupled with Clutch and Engine Braking will make the bike stop with much less dynamic weight transfer to the front wheel, leaving you with much more front suspension travel available and be in better control of the motorcycle as a result. Clutch Braking can also give you an extra 5 miles per gallon of fuel, as opposed to rev matching which uses fuel to rev the engine but is mostly wasted.
Well said!
Thank you.
I have found with my Kawi Vulcan 900C that it engine brakes a LOT on its own. If I let off the throttle just a bit I can drop as much as 20mph in no time. I did not realize just how much or often this takes place until I began riding with a friend of mine and he told me my tail light was not working . We checked and found out it was but I was just letting off the throttle in top gear and my speed was dropping significantly. I then began to apply my front brake just enough o warn others when even letting off the gas. I would recommend always doing this if you are going to engine brake. It warns others behind you that you are slowing down.
+Ted Smith Yes, using the brakes is important. Your 900 engine brakes so well because of it's low gearing. At 65mph in top gear your turning 4,000 RPM's. The faster the engine is spinning, the more engine braking force it'll apply when the throttle is let off.
I've always used engine braking on my bikes as long as I can remember. I've got over 65,000 miles on my current bike with the original clutch and brake pads, so I know it helps in the long run.
On a chain or belt driven rear wheel I only do engine braking moderately. On a shaft driven rear wheel I use it a touch harder changing down 1 to 2 gears depending on the situation. I have all 3 systems on my bikes. My personal preference is the Shaft.
The belt on the 1700 Vaquero in the video is a very stiff carbon fiber belt, power transfer is solid without the driveline loss of a shaft, so it actually 'feels' a bit like a shaft in that regard.
Dude! I am a brand new rookie rider with a 96 Yamaha Virago 750 and your videos have seriously helped me learn to ride this cruiser more than you know! I appreciate this man thanks for doing what you do.
+david dix Thanks David!
5th gear clutch disengaged
Front and Rear brakes applied to
30% rear 40% front... speed dropping and from there is just all clutch...
squeeze, downshift 4th release slowly...
squeeze, downshift 3rd release slowly...
squeeze, downshift 2nd release slowly...
I engine brake always, it's like something I do naturally. I like to do it because being in the correct ESCAPE GEAR may save you and your bike one day when the dude isn't paying attention behind you. When I am slowing I also am tapping my brakes to let the driver behind me know that I'm slowing. I literally flash them many, many times to get their attention as I am going down through the gears. Not at all concerned about brake wear or clutch wear, just want to make sure there is not unnecessary wear on ME!
I've ridden motorcycle for 30 years. I came into it from having ridden bicycle competitively and from having traffic-jammed for many years. I didn't own a car. My experience on the 10-speed was that it was important to have the right gear handy at the right time, or else my legs would have to bring me up to speed sufficient to crest the next hill. If I were to use that as an analogy, I'd want to have the right gear handy for when I need it. You covered that very well. Thank you.
+Norman Teck Absolutely Norman; good analogy! I'm a bicyclist as well. Though they've come a long way since those iconic ten speeds! My current steep is a carbon fiber bike with 22 speeds! (11 speed cassette on the back).
Around town, I do rpm matching and downshifting plus use of brakes This can be a really good thing if you've got to get on it to get out of harms way, and brake lights let cars know what I'm doing. Mountain riding and long downhill runs are a whole other story. I use a lot of engine braking there to avoid baking the brakes. Even excellent brakes like on my bike (BMW R1200RT) need some relief from heat due to long downhill braking. Good to see you back John ! Thanks for the video.
+Robnord1 Yep, maintaining speed down a hill is a definite good use.
When you engine brake & apply some front/rear brake so people behind you know your braking, you are infact in more control of the bike then just using your brakes alone and pulling the clutch in. Remember pulling the clutch in and holding it there your are actually loosing all of your control on the bike. If you down shift and let the clutch go your are infact engine braking. Worst thing to do it pulling clutch in and holding in then using the brakes to stop. Engine braking, popping the throttle and using some brakes is the safest way to come to a stop or pre-pair for a corner then you can also use trail braking or use the engine braking as a trail brake. I love engine braking especially on my Triumph which has a 270 degree crank which gives you more engine brake.
My grandfather raced bikes back in his day, and rode daily for over 30 years, I remember him telling me that I must make sure that I'am always riding in the correct gear for the speed and conditions that I was travelling in or at. He said he found engine braking was a very effective way to slow down a motorcycle, plus it also ensured the bike was in the correct gear. I have always heeded this advice from him and find that it really works well. However in an emergency braking situation I still use my front brakes and apply them in a three stage grab.
Clutch in.
1. Pull the front brake in about 1cm.
2. Pull in about 2cm.
3. Pull the brake all the way in.
This has saved my butt on a couple of occasions. I would like to hear what you think of this method.
I'am far from an expert but have 10 years and about 240000km under my belt riding 6 days a week in all sorts of weather conditions. Iam always wanting to learn more and become a better and safer rider.
Stay safe and keep the shiny side up.
People who race or ride higher performance do tend to like the RPM's to be a bit higher. It all depends on riding style. Personally; I don't think that's the best route. You never want to lug the engine; but while decelerating or riding at a constant speed; keeping engine RPM's low is best for fuel economy and for keeping wear and tear out of the engine.
I have a 93 vulcan 500. It is geared so low that I can putt around at 35 mph in 6th and it not be bogged down too bad. At 65 or 70 on the highway, she is screaming. I don't have to use my brakes half the time because of the gearing. Engine braking is just kind of like an auto brake for me when I let off the throttle. If I am in heavy traffic I will still pull the front brake lever back enough to activate the switch when slowing down without brakes. I am a very defensive rider so I try not to put myself into situations that require heavy braking. But when I do use my brake, it is mostly front brake unless it is heavy braking, then I use both front and rear.
Generally the larger the capacity of the motorcycle the better the engine will brake as you are creating larger pumping losses behind the vacuum closed butterfly valve (greater volume of air being moved etc.) You'll also find motorcycles with a larger reciprocating mass in the engine (think of very sturdy adventure bikes, single cylinders etc.) will be less responsive as the reciprocating parts carry less inertia while a sports bike engine is built with a lower reciprocating mass to make it more responsive. So a rider used to a Kawasaki Ninja 300 (low capacity, responsive twin) would need quite an adjustment to ride a Kawasaki KLR 650 (larger capacity, study single.)
i accidentally downshift the gear in high speed and my engine roars. and i wonder what adverse effect does it make to my motorcycle engine. i did downshift from 3rd gear high speed to secondary! i hope my engine is fine.
I always engine brake. Mostly for simple easy slowing when coming to a stop sign or red light. Now if I have to brake harder like the light just changed then I don't. I use my real brakes. The engine is just a means of a "controlled" braking. Well for me at least. I know I'm a little rough out with clutches but I'm used an old manual truck with no power.
Hi John. Good to see you here again. I do both. Sometimes I will add some break just to help traffic behind me notice I'm slowing down. Brake lights are a good thing.
+Jer NorthernCAredwoods Yep for sure. There's also the muscle memory issue. By using the brakes, it becomes instinctive.
The point of engine braking is that is better than actual brakes, the reason is save your rear brakes from being used up. So you are slowing down for free since the piston compressing air (with min fuel) depletes your kinetic energy and slows you down without spending anything.
Yep. As I said in the video, I'm not sure that's a good reason. Brake pads are pretty inexpensive and pretty easy to replace on a motorcycle.
I hesitate to comment simply because the last comment made on this appears to have been a year ago. I grew up driving eighteen wheelers and using dual transmissions, ie; five and a four. I learned about forty years ago that when you have your transmission and gear boxes in a no-load match where rpm is common you can slide in and out of gear effortlessly. You did an example in the video of slight revving on a down shift. Actually, iy you ease throttle just before the shift (split second) It is a habit for me and I do it without thinking, you can go down to the next gear by holding the throttle exactly where it is and shift. When you shift it will automatically increase rpm in the moment it is in a no-load status while the clutch is engaged and it will re-engage at the precise rpm it needed to be at. I don't know if I explained that clearly but I do it all of the time. I down shift as I slow and always keep by the engine at the best power range. I ride a Victory Octane and redline is 8300. There is a sweet spot at 4000 rpm and I try to keep it in that range as I come down. If I ever need to move in an emergency I am at the right power and in the right gear with no searching or multiple downshifts.I may not always do this around town but on a ride when riding the mountain roads and byways I always do it, it is a habit. It also means you can make a smooth shift in almost any condition.
There are indeed newer comments, RUclips by default shows "top comments" first, those that have received the most "upvotes".
What you're talking about is staying in the optimal gear; which I think is crucial. What I'm addressing, mostly, in the video is this: I see motorcyclists using downshifting exclusively to slow their bike down. This creates a bad habit, adds time to braking and it's all to avoid what is a very simple and inexpensive maintenance task. At least, in my opinion!
I use engine braking - a lot. But I use it WITH my other brakes. Because as you and many other commenters have pointed out, it ensures that you are in the proper gear for returning to speed.
+jr63049 That's it!
Engine breaking also puts extra wear on the rear tire...whether or not you hear the tire “chirp” or not, it adds wear...brake pads are cheaper and I’m yet to wear out brake pads prematurely.
I tend to ride with a combination of both. I think the rise of everything being an automatic has reduced peoples understanding of what’s going on.
My first car was fairly under braked - so I long downhills, I did have to use engine braking or risk running out of brakes (rear drum, unventilated front disk) I did experience this, so I can see why engine braking might be considered unnecessary with modern brakes.
I tend to engine brake as I am slowing down to an intersection as well as brake in the final stages. I am not doing it because I want to save brake pads - I’m doing it because it’s under control (vs pulling the clutch in)
another reason engine braking is important is for control when slowing down from a high speed. You've got a cruiser so the weight is very much in the centre. Sport bikes have their weight in the front. When you press each brake, rear and front, the weight of the bike is transferred to that end of the bike. Engine braking will send some of that force to the centre of the bike giving you more control.
An experiment to prove this, try braking using your rear/front brake when you're in neutral and the bike is moving without the engine engaged. Now try the same with the engine engaged. The engine is always going to brake because of friction and will slow you down, engine braking, allows you to gain more control over that aspect.
I engine brake , it doesn't hurt the bike and you learn how to listen to ur bike. I often engine brake when riding into curves if I'm being lazy or coming to a light a few blocks away, I just engine break until the light turn then I take off again.
Good video
Ride safe😎
+Krazy Kool NYer Fair enough!
Best way to slow down in a corner in my opinion, at least if you are a little too quick in it
'Linear control'; you're absolutely bang on. It's all about knowing your systems and how to control them. Has nothing to do with saving pads. Great video!
+Lab Insight Yep! I'm not sure 'saving pads' is a great excuse anyway. They aren't very expensive and replacing them isn't tough.
I especially use engine braking going down hill, on a bike or in a car. It's not about saving the brake pads, but it helps prevent brake-fade from overheating brakes, especially low quality pads. I had it happen once in a car and it's not nice. It's also a habit carried over from limited 4X4 experience where the brakes can cause you to lock up and loose control while the engine never will (unless it seizes), but really it's just a preference thing; I just feel more comfortable attacking corners in a lower gear.
Yep. I don't think I articulated myself well. That's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. Maintaining speed down a hill, etc., that's fine. I know many people who never touch their brakes, who just downshift to come to a stop at a stoplight, etc. I think that creates bad habits.
Yep. I don't think I articulated myself well. That's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. Maintaining speed down a hill, etc., that's fine. I know many people who never touch their brakes, who just downshift to come to a stop at a stoplight, etc. I think that creates bad habits.
Right, gottcha! BTW, love the videos mate
Engine braking extends the life of your brake pads. You don't substitute braking with engine braking, you simply use it to take some of the load off your brakes and increase the intervals between pad replacement. Kind of a no brainer. And yes, it's good thing.
Brake pads aren't very expensive, even good ones; and the replacement is pretty simple. Especially on a motorcycle. It's about a 15 minute job on my Vulcan. You give up a bit of modulation and control when engine braking. It's not necessarily a bad thing; but I just am not convinced that brake pad wear is that big of a deal. Brake pads occasionally needs replacing, oil needs changing, tires need replacing. It's all wear and tear. Preserving very expensive and difficult to service items, like the engine and transmission; are critical. But it seems like a lot of hoops to jump through to eek out a few hundred to a couple thousand extra miles on a set of sub-$30 brake pads that can be replaced in 15 minutes.
Engine braking is used only in absolute emergency situations... Or when riding a supersport and riding well above traffic conditions (again safety issue)
It's cheaper to buy a new set of pads than a new engine
I don't have a radio on my Honda Stateline 1300 , I mainly engine brake for the Music ! No serious , every stop I incorporate Front & Rear brake & downshift ( equally ) I do this every time I ride .... Maybe it comes natural to me cause I used to spend a lot of time off-road w/ dirt bikes. But , I think I mainly do it for the music ... Lol-
+Eddie B. Works for me!
I tend to use engine braking if I only want to bleed off a bit of speed, only using fairly low revs, often staying around 2000 revs, enough revs to accelarate if required (1990 ZX10) So there is some braking and some controllable accelaration to be had when necessary. If I need more stopping power then I would brake, instead of changing down earlier, On steep downhills I do use the engine to help hold the bike back, just as I do when driving a car or van. Once in the chosen gear you are not wearing the clutch, only spinning the engine and on a long slope this can save you cooking your brakes.
+Phil Wood Finally someone who gets what engine braking really is. I do exactly the same as you while ensuring I activate the brake light by ever so lightly touching the rear brake pedal while engine braking so other cars can see me slowing down.
'90 Zx10 wow! I'm on a'97 Cbr1100xx there's no need for these super expensive new bikes that's a secret not discussed on RUclips!
I'm 16 and not yet riding, but I was watching this video and realized that you are in the Union area. I live in Chesterfield (the QuikTrip you passed is 45 minutes from me) and thought it was cool that a motovlogger lived so close. The ones I usually watch are in Texas, California, Kansas or Georgia.
Thanks man! I don't live in Union; but I was riding through that area in this video!
Repeat after me:
Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift.
Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift.
Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift.
Engine braking is NOT the same as slipping the clutch on a downshift.
Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur.
Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur.
Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur.
Downshifting is not a requirement for engine braking to occur.
Thanks on this :)
If you didn't SLIP the clutch it would be the same but best thing to do is to pop the throttle while down shifting and let the clutch go.
@@martindekker8203 That's called rev matching.
Engine breaking when it is wet is not fun. I guess I don't really think about this topic too much, but yes, I do use the engine unless I need to come to a quick stop.
+RobbieTaboo12 That's a great point. Linear, more progressive and controllable braking is essential in the wet; engine braking should be avoided.
I pretty much just use engine braking to slow down while maintaining the perfect gear and powerband. engine braking towards a red light is convenient because the moment it turns green you're ready to regain speed and keep moving. Otherwise I'll end up downshifting too far and when the light turns green I'm in too low a gear for my speed and have to do some guesswork to get it back into businesses mode.
I do use engine breaking, but my concern is that (I assume) it does not light the tail light, and for that reason I don't do it in traffic.
There are lights on the market that do flash just by engine braking. My brother has some on his bike. So anytime the sensor in the light detects a slowing of the bike, be it engine brake or actual brake, the lights flash. I'll be putting them on mine as well.
+Alex Dalziel Lightly touch the rear brake pedal to activate the brake light. You need to test this out in the garage though and adjust the sensor to activate with a light touch before you actually go out into traffic and do it. Otherwise, you may not be activating the light at all.
@@notafanboy250 YEP! A few taps to warn those behind you that you're slowing down - EASY!
On my cbt in the UK I was told that you should use engine breaking pretty much as much as you can without even touching the breaks, apart from coming to a complete stop of course
I tend to do both. Engine breaking works hand in hand coming to a stop when down shifting. Good topic. Ride Safe!
+HarleyDayRider Awesome!
Yup
The rear brake does not get a lot of wear and tear. Using engine brake to save the rear brakes is not really needed. It's just easier sometimes in traffic and certain road conditions to use engine braking.
+H.E. Pinero It depends on the bike, but yes, generally the rear will outlast the front. It's an easy replacement though.
I use engine braking and I think you really hit the nail when you pointed out that it's real benefit is the control factor. Anytime we slow down on a motorcycle in traffic we are watching the mirrors to make sure the following vehicles are aware. If you avoid engine braking for whatever reason and use brakes only…this can mean you don't have the ability to immediately 'escape a danger' through acceleration At least not as efficiently than if you are in the right gear for your bikes speed. For me ….it's kind of like ..if you slow down significantly without downshifting and using the brakes only you are kind of akin to putting the vehicle in neutral and sacrificing a great deal of control over the bike. Just my thoughts.
+willyb933 I agree. Though you can also downshift with the clutch in to accomplish the same thing (I do both), staying in the right gear is essential. I'll admit! In my experience, situations where you need to 'power away from something' are very rare, situations where you need to stop immediately are more common. So I focus on the latter. But I always stay in the appropriate gear.
It's the best way to slow down when going down a hill or mountains. When going up a mountain, check what speed you are in and it will be the same going down.
Totally agree with you Sir. I also prefer using the brakes in order to alert the drivers behind me that im slowing down.
+Faisal Alrashed Yep!
Glad to see ya again...hope you've been good. I usually don't engine brake in traffic only because I need people to see my brake lights and to know my intentions... But very good vlog. God bless & always ride safe!
+Eagleye 3571 (Daniel) Good to see you too! Blessings!
I would say every one who rides a bike should learn how how to engine break efficiently because one day you'll be out riding and maybe one day your breaks will fail for what ever reason so therefore your need to know how to slow down with the transmission.
I'll admit it, I engine break for the sound.
Glad your back with another vid.
+lmdetect Haha, well that's a good reason!
“rear brake will lock up the wheel" doesn't necessary mean that is powerful enough, because "will lock up" is not equal to "immediately lock up", you lock up the wheel after slow it down a bit.
Using engine brake to cut down engine output and even reverse the effect definitely boost the process to slow it down.
Lets say if you going down a hill, which one is easier for making sure your vehicle is running at a slower speed? sole rear brake or engine brake?
In that case, keeping the bike in a lower gear and "engine braking" is the preferred solution; to prevent overheating the brake and glazing the pads. The behavior I'm referring to is when people choose not to use their brakes, and instead just downshift as they approach a light. That gets them out of the muscle memory habit of using both brakes. If an emergency happens, you're going to do whatever you've always done, or you'll hesitate. If you always stop using both brakes, no matter what; then you'll use both brakes in an emergency. If you lazily grab one brake or always just downshift, you might hesitate or fail to use both brakes. No matter how smart, or experienced you think you are; muscle memory matters. When police officers train with their weapons, they always draw them the exact same way; so if they ever need it, they'll draw it exactly the right way. When firefighters train, they always get ready in the exact same order. That way, when they do get a call and the adrenaline is pumping; nothing is forgotten. Motorcyclists, too, should exercise rote repetition in the way they control their bikes; so the muscle memory is there should it ever need called upon.
Most modern bikes will have a rear brake capable of instantly locking up the rear tire. Mine has ABS, so it won't lock up the rear tire; but in fact it'll need the ABS to push back on it to prevent it!
I'm a newbie but I engine brake all the time especially in traffic to maintain distance. I'll down shift if I need to slow down faster and I f I really need to slow down fast I'll use the back then front brake.
On some bikes it will eat the primary chain adjuster shoe.
What exactly does that mean? Do you mind explaining it to me, I would really be interested!
Very good clues and I do use engine braking some.
There are lights on the market that detect the deceleration of the bike. Works with engine braking and /or actual braking.
+lmdetect Yes, though it's a good practice to apply some front brake at minimum; both to illuminate the light and to be ready to brake hard in an emergency. One shouldn't ever rely on JUST engine braking.
Romans Five|Eight - Agreed.
every time you let off the fuel pull in the clutch and soon you will see how much engine braking you really do without noticing it
that would be detrimental to you and your clutch..
@@normanmendoza6891 so your supposed to constantly be on the throttle or hold the clutch in or downshifting?
one thing you did not tell us is if you have short headers or straight pipes down shifting/engine braking can cause cold air to suck up in to heads damaging valves. Which is a good reason to not buy short exhaust pipes
You are correct sir, brakes are easier to service and are made to slow/stop
You engine brake to shift the weight rearward/downward, usually before a curve, then you start to roll on the throttle while trail-breaking into the the turn, then you roll more on while fading off the brake as you hit apex, then roll it on out of the curve.
BTW NEVER engine break a shaft driven. You can run at lower speeds at higher RPM to go down a mountain with a shaft, but don't use it to stop. Your worm gear will thank you.
So, a shaft drive you end up matching RPM and using brake before you enter a curve.
And always drag rear brake on a engine break to light the brake or get a VOLO unit to light the brakes due to deceleration, not brake lever.
its called controlling the friction zone. there is nothing wrong with engine breaking.
the reason i do it, is nothing about saving brakes, and im not worried about clutch plates. i do it because its another tool in slowing down and control of the bike
+poet99999 Actually, I think you'll have much more control JUST using the brakes; that's the point. The brakes are more linear and have far better modulation. You only have one rear tire, and chances are your rear brake is well capable of locking it up. So there's no "extra braking power" from engine braking. BUT; keeping it in the right gear IS important. Nothing wrong with engine braking; but it is LESS control, not more, when it comes to decelerating.
If you're in a place where everything is flat, it doesn't matter much, but don't attempt to drive your big, heavy bike down from a mountain using service brakes only. Not a hill. A mountain. You'll burn them up and you end up in a mountainside or off the edge when you suddenly have no brakes anymore. Not fun.
I didn't articulate it well, but I was more talking about the practice of coming to a stop at intersections, etc., with the engine instead of the brakes. I think that's a bad habit, because I think riders should always be in the habit of slowing and stopping the bike with the brakes, because it keeps us sharp should we need to stop in an emergency.
MAINTAINING speed down a steep hill or mountain is best done in the appropriate gear; i.e., engine braking!
Engine braking, its just habbit. Driving flatbed most of my adult life you learn to use the transmission to help slow the truck down and aid in breaking. Smoking the brakes on a semi is not a great idea. Unlikely on a motorcycle to overheat the pads.
+Hazzardousmat For sure. I engine brake too; I just make sure not to rely on it and always have the brakes applied as well. I would think it would be hard to overheat the brakes on a motorcycle indeed. Perhaps a long mountain descent.
Engine braking....saves on brakes, saves on fuel (EFI bikes), has you in the correct gear when time to apply the throttle again. No reason not to do it.....just as long as you know how to rev match along with it. Locking up your back tire will pucker your arse-hole if you don't.
thank you very much, I actually have one of those cramp busters, maintaining a constant speed, is a problem , I actually believe due poor throttle control. issues, and lack experience.
Its nice to find a motorcycle vlogger in my area.
+Triston king Where are you at, Triston?
Sullivan
I'm a subscriber, good video as always.With this recent flooding and being in the Union, Mo. area, hope all is OK with you and Family.I live in Oakville, Mo area, and more roads are being closed! Can't believe Hwy 44 is closed for a long portion.Take care.
+B Schmidt Thank you so much for asking! We're fine. I live in a neighboring community and am well above ground. Though it's a little tough to get out and go anywhere. Thankfully, I Pastor a church here in town and don't NEED to go far, though I have a couple folks in a St. Louis area hospital that it's going to be tough to reach.
The area you see pictured in the video is mostly underwater right now.
to be honest wear is wear. if you engine break you are putting wear on the most expensive parts. it overtime will decrease the engine and tranny parts. it's happening no matter what. breaks are easy to replace and cheap and the at home mechanic can easily master. having said all this I do both myself. it's fun. and part of riding is to have fun. just decide what is good for your pocket book.
+Greg Demott I'm not convinced the wear of engine braking is that significant though; acceleration forces are more significant and you do those all the time!
It is over time. Friction is friction. It does not change for one party over another. It's simple science. In order to abate forward constant that inertia needs to transfer somewhere. Clutch plates are notorious tough. But you are putting wear on them reducing their serviceable life. And unless you are capable it's harder to do than brake changes. But to see any savings you would have to never engine brake. Like I said I do both add do anyone who wants to enjoy riding. But don't think that engine breaking isn't wearing parts. Turning the bike on its wearing parts is just a matter how much wear you are going to risk over the life of the bike. Look at it this way, if you were buying a used bike and you had two identical bikes. One was used all the time ermine breaking the other had gone through multiple brakes and never engine brake. Which would you buy?
On my old VStar 1100 I would engine break all the time. If I did not blip the throttle it would be quit jerky. Even at the lower end of the gears I could take off the throttle and have that engine break feeling.
Now though I have a Honda CTX700DCT, little hard to blip that bike :)
+SD Cruiser Yeah the DCT kind of takes the fun out of it :)
I cant imagine driving without engine braking-its my routine now before braking, going into corners etc. Im ridding ex500
same, and it's one of the only ways to make the bike sound decent when it's bone stock ;)
Yeah but sure does Sound Good when you're riding hard n does work if your riding the Twisties at a good pace. 😎✌🏻️
Down downshift aggressively on gravel surfaces. Other than that it is effective
in regards to braking with the motor. In an emergency stop, you can stop faster without downshifting. That has been proven.
My point exactly. Use the brakes!
Number one reason I engine brake, my straight pipes shoot flames and make a nasty pops when I downshift lol
But yeah a secondary reason is to just stay in the right gear, if I’m just braking for a light or a stop sign or whatever I just downshift. If I have to slow down fast I use the brakes
Guys you are confusing two things here. Engine braking means to let your RPMs go higher when going downhill until the point that they dont go any higher, and you are not accelerating anymore. Otherwise (like shown in the video) you are braking with your CLUTCH not your ENGINE. Dont mess it up..
+Matej Kováč Everyone has their own terms; but yes. I'm referring to slowing to a stop with the engine, (you're not using the 'clutch' to brake because the clutch has no resistance itself; you're still using the compression of the engine to actually slow you down; the clutch is just an intermediary) not to keeping a constant speed on an incline with the engine.
kinda do both .depends on situation ... like if am slowing down anyway .. say from 4th .. and i think the bike is doing 3rd speed..ill drop it 3rd ...and so on ......4,3,2,1 ...but not use the engine to brake to harshly ...like doing 5th speed and dropping it down to 3rd .. lol . but saying that i very rarly use 1st gear anyay tbh as it dont offer much power before you need to change to 2nd... so i use 2nd as my start gear ..
I learned how to accidentally but not in a bad sort of way, id slow down with the clutch pulled in, guess the gear then and shift to where I need for downshifting let off the brakes then the clutch and I havent had anything but smooth shifts but the other day going to church I was racing and in a maybe 80ft area I slowed from 80 to 45mph (in fifth gear on a 2015 dr200) shifted down, shifted down which is when it engine braked , from the sound I was 1.5k rpm short of redlining and I slowed down quick enough for the fire fighters to check out and I cruised into the empty churchs parking lot going 30mph on dirt and loose rocks pulling up uncomfortably quick to park an inch from the curb xD only 107.9 miles on the motor but I swear it feels like second nature for my first geared motorcycle
Well, keeping brakes from getting hot, helps prevent fade.
Yes, on an extended downhill, like down a mountain. However, brakes will not overheat with just every day driving.
i don't do it a lot. mostly when i'm moving like you are right now in the video. and most times i'm already in low or 2nd gear
all in the mix
I downshift if a car is coming to an intersection and Keep activating brakes in a flashing method. If I see somebody texting I'll lane split even though its illegal.
Oddly enough, I don’t use pliers when I change brake pads.
Brake pads cost dollars the extra wear isn't worth it. If you are too aggressive with downshift you can stall your engine which will lock up your real wheel. Just like you said engine braking doesn't add anymore braking than the rear brake. If a person tries to engine brake to a stop it will stall the engine.
Any REAL rider or driver will engine brake, period. Because they Know their Gearing. But you really want to engine brake AND "touch" your brakes too. I'm obsessed with being in the Right gear at any given moment, so I'm always flinging threw gears around turns or while stopping. But it really depends on what you're riding. If you're on a big fat cruiser....probably don't need to so much...but on a sport bike or performance engine YES.
+Mike Fu Absolutely, you should always be in the right gear! But the brakes are king. More modulation, and more consistent power. You shouldn't be relying on engine braking primarily; that shifts the braking entirely to the rear and it's in big 'chunks'; not the modulation you get from using your actual brakes.
Engine braking at minimum is good to practice for a potential situation where you can't use your brakes.
I'll drive the motorcycle on the throttle out on the highway just using light engine braking to bleed off speed to match other traffic, maintain following distances etc. That said in an emergency stop I was always taught and practice disengaging the clutch and just worrying about stopping the bike. Also I'll sometime dab the rear brake very lightly to activate the sensor if I feel someone is closer behind me than I would like, just flashes the brake light at them of course as a polite "If you get any closer behind me we'll need a condom mate."
can you make a video about sharp turns? how to turn faster. I just started riding and i have a little bit of trouble turning right fast. thanks.
i use down shifting during rideing and breaking 40 percent rear and 60 front i made the mistake of locking rear wheel on road marking ie turn arrow or white lane marking like your video various use for prpoer riding
Oops. If it has two wheels you're riding, not driving. Ride safe, ride often.
Okay okay okay. This is a perspective from someone with advanced technology breaks. Yes in your case, engine braking offers no real benefit. I have a 2005 Nomad that benefit greatly from engine braking. Let me tell you why I think it does. Engine braking work as a pseudo anti-lock braking system commonly known as a BS. It keeps the brakes from locking up while when downshifting at higher RPMs much more effective Breaking Benjamin slamming on your rear brake. When solid and effective engine braking is combined with front and rear braking in an emergency situation the bike stops faster than any other way. Anybody that has ridden hard Motocross, those as fast as they can out of a turn and wait as long as they can until they go into the next turn will know that the combination of using all free gives the best chance of slowing down just enough in the turns and guaranteed to be in the proper gear when it's time to launch out. In short, yes engine braking is very effective. Do I believe it tears my clutch up, it's not doing it any favors. Hope everyone has a nice day. And go ride your bike, quit watching videos. LOL
Engine brake wont cause the bike to skip on wet road. And it aid braking faster.
When engine braking you skid the back tire for a split second. Brake pads are way cheaper then a back tire, and easier to replace.
It is exactly like a truck driver using a jake brake Do it all the time
John, I've just recently begun process of shopping for my first motorcycle, and I found your channel. I really enjoy the videos you do. I do have a question: have you ever considered trying to find a source of bikes to ride and review for your channel? There is a young guy down in Atlanta who has relationship with a dealer there that allows him to do "first rides" on many different bikes. Unfortunately, he's a LOT younger than I am, and the bikes he tends to feature are not the same ones I would be interested in.
I'd love that opportunity, but I'm not sure who is around me who would offer that. There's really only one dealership of decent size and it's over an hour away, and I just don't think I'd have the time, even if they did offer it, to do something like that.
As an add to that; I think the best reviews come when you've got some time to really put the bike through it's paces. My reviews of both of my bikes have been done as an owner.
Hey man, first off your videos are great. Just subscribed :) keep posting new videos, it's been a while since you uploaded one. I'm new to riding, just getting used to it, got myself a new bike so watching videos here and there to know more about riding. Whenever possible could you make a vlog on shifting and downshifting the gears the right way.
It'll be great if you do.
Cheers :)
Burn the brakes off of em!! But that's EVERYTHING to your life.
my question is, I have an 07 v star 1100, but I'm thinking about a used Goldwing, for more touring comfort I know its a beast of a bike but I see little ladies ride them. my bike rides good but I feel like I'm sitting to low and I cant straighten out my legs, plus I miss having one and all the toys on Goldwings.
You may want to sit on a Goldwing first, it has a standard mid control riding position instead of a feed forward position like large V-Twin cruisers. You probably won't be able to stretch out on a Goldwing.
I will check that out
ABS, no rear brake lockup.
Brakes arent that bad off an idea...cars behind hopefully see your brake lights. No lights...dont blame the car behind that doesnt notice your slowing down.
You don't want to be down shifting on a V-twin until your rpm's come down some, cause your gonna get wheel hop or over rev.
Not true if you know your bike
I use engine braking just to stay in the power band. Not so much to slow down, and I usually give it a little blip of throttle anyway just to lessen the shock to the drive train and that kind of mitigates the engine braking a bit. (way more engine braking if you just let out the clutch but it's not smooth). My riding style is just to be as smooth as possible. Even in traffic.
Do you have a video of how you handle stop and go traffic? I have to ride my bike during my commute at walking speeds and slower. I ride a 1500cc goldwing and you learn to slip the clutch while on the rear brake. It might be helpful for some newer riders with big bikes to show them that technique.
It's easy to ride fast, it's much harder to ride a 900lb bike slow. =)
+Urban Madness I shot a video on low speed handling but actually lost it, I need to re-do it. Ultimately, it's all about that clutch control. My preference for stop-and-go traffic, to save the clutch, is to let traffic move ahead of me a little, then catch up. Personally, I wouldn't drag the clutch and brake at the same time, you're just wearing both. You should be able to control a bike the size of ours with just the clutch.
The clutch is actually designed to take it on the wings. Rear brakes are cheap so I'm not concerned, especially if it gives extra control. Again, I'd like to see how you do it. I'll shot a video on how I do it and then we can compare notes.
Super clear audio on the motovlog. Are you still using the Shark setup? Looking for some advice on what to use for audio along with my Gopro
Your videos are really good. Keep it up.
+gschmit62 Thank you so much!