So fun to see some heavy creativity from the dungeon team. Playing in a space like this that felt so unique and themed was awesome. We’ve spent so much time in weird alien bright spaces being in a castle with scorn and taken was awesome. So much fun
Definitely brought back a bit of that more grounded D1 feel, which is nice. Not saying the super scifi settings aren't cool it's just nice to have variety.
@@MattTheHuman9the grounded d1 feel I think is the best one we achieve. That’s why hive theme expansions tend to turn out so good, since they touch more on this than the vex or other factions do.
Hot tip for final boss top floor, you can use deadfall tether and it will kill basically all the eyes for its entire duration, paired with Orpheus rigs and got some super long dps phase Edit: hot tip number 2, try to aim the tether at the top of the meatball, it'll make it easier for it to grab the eyes but also won't block the crit on the boss cause tethers do block bullets
I 100% prefer this kind of traversal than ghosts. Having almost no way to speed up platforming sections is always a bad design choice imo. New dungeon is super fun and actually rewards you for knowing where your going.
@@joemoe650the traps can also be learned lol. It just may take a while longer to do that since you're dealing with directions and that's always harder to learn. But the reason I like this one more is that it actually feels like the more you traverse and get closer to the bosses (especially final boss) the more dangerous the enemies you encounter along the way. This keeps you engaged all the way through
I don’t really agree. If you know what you’re doing in ghosts you can get through that section faster than the transition encounter in this dungeon. It’s just a perception issue. Imo we shouldn’t be designing dungeons around a perception issue.
@@EggyWeggyIII I mean, we actually should because that's exactly how the human brain works. If something FEELS slow, but actually isn't, the literal fact doesn't matter. The experience will still be slow and less engaging which leads to boredom. This is the same technique advertisers, film makers, etc use to make a 2 hour long movie feel like 1 hour. In other words, if you're going to make traversal sections that are longer than a 10 second walk, they need to be engaging or you risk people getting bored
@@Mr-R.R. the thing is, something being engaging is extremely subjective. I’ve heard from a bunch of people that this maze section is just as boring. Their reasoning is that the ghosts area is way more visually stimulating than running through the same tunnel for a few min. Yes perception should be taken into account but it should absolutely not be the controlling factor.
I think it's good to have a variety of difficulty and intensities for Dungeons. Ghosts was a great first time experience but it's a bit long in the tooth now having pushed against that barrier for a while now.
i know it isn't super popular but duality is just oh so perfect, i still prefer prophecy mostly because of the environment but combat-wise duality just feels like perfect difficulty and tension
Yeah dude, Duality was just so chaotic and nuts, I hated it. I think Datto was way off on this one. This is exactly what a dungeon should be , A semi challenging chill mini raid for a 3 buddy fireteam. If you want extremely chaotic encounters and pressure timers, with super mechanics.... you should be Raiding on master mode. Not doing dungeons.
I would’ve loved a “zone capture” style progress circle for capturing the taken totem things personally. I feel like you can’t really tell your progress until more than half way through
@@nicolapadoin9718 yeah, but that happens when you're about half-cleansed it. Sometimes while I'm cleansing the totem I'm thinking "wait, I'm not in the circle?", and only in 2-3 seconds does the ball starts decreasing in size
Agreed, the animation of the little blight ball inside the totem should scale more linearly from start to end of the cap duration, rather than starting to shrink halfway. Or a zone cap progress circle, if it's not possible for Bungie to rescale the blight ball shrinkage.
I really enjoyed the emphasis on not just doing the dungeon once and forgetting it with the “in the shadow of the mountain” quest where you slowly unlock more of the story every time you complete a run and collect more of the lore bones. And that final portal (while only giving a random exotic was kinda lame) being a monologue from one of the characters we hear the least from was amazing
Having done it multiple times on master mode and countless times on normal, i hate the final encounter so much, its awful. The taken ground shit, the barons not spawning the totems, the infinite enemy spam, the acolytes eyes doing damage, the barons spawning RIGHT in front of the boss, and worst of all, the glitchy terrible curse mechanic
I think it's good you mention the healing aspect of this dungeon. Even in a team of 3, it feels like even with high Resilience and good ad clear, there's so much random chip damage that not running a Healing build feels incredibly punishing. It feels like we've come full circle with the difficulty in this game: enemies have been ramped up and builds have been nerfed enough to where only the best survivability builds can compete. This is not a good sign for things like Arc Warlock, Stasis, etc that have minimal or no survivability options.
I definitely understand what you mean… I wouldn’t use something like Arc Warlock as an example. Vesper of Radius is basically unkillable with spamming healing rifts that blind and having Arc buddies. Stasis is a better example. Even then, though… it’s got a lot of play with turrets because adds tend to be on an elimination spawn… meaning if you freeze a lot and kill minimally which turrets can do you’ll control the add spawn decently. Doesn’t mean I’d take Stasis into soloing this… but I would have no hesitation taking Arc Warlock for solo flawless.
It is literally impossible to die on arc lock with vesper since you never run out of rifts and everything around you just dies or is blinded. It made the last encounter into a joke for me solo.
My Duo and I's main gripe was our power ammo luck. Spending 10 minutes on the first floor of the final boss for a single brick even with finders was extremely painful.
Dungeon is so cool looking and gameplay wise, but why oh why is the loot so mid :( Edit: Completed the loot badge and got a godroll of most of the weapons and the exotic, and yeah its mid.
Yeah I'm getting the exotic and pretty much won't touch it afterwards. Two fucking caster swords? Really bungie? One for free to play and others for dungeon? Like, just. Why lmao.
For the final boss, my team used Ghjallerhorn to take care of the eyes and do damage at the same time, worked pretty effectively. I also used Lucky Pants with Malfeascence and it *COOKED* the boss really hard. At one point I had 9.4 million damage from using it primarily during the ascending damage phases, and as a backup when I ran out of rockets. It's what I plan to use going into solo flawless because there are so many taken and high health targets. I can also understand Elitist Datto's take, this dungeon was pretty stakes free, but I think that having an even split of difficult dungeons and easy dungeons is good for newer players, and even older players who sometimes want to relax. This dungeon definitely fits into the doing it to relax with the buds category.
I love using malf so ima use this next time I run it but what did you do about ad clear? Or did you just leave it to teammates. Handcannon aren’t the best at ad clearing.
@@camrendilbeck Just Malfeasance. It worked surprisingly well for me, since the detonation goes off when the target dies. I imagine my teammates helped out a lot, but in the end we had an even number of kills by the end of the dungeon. Maybe a trace rifle would help if you're really worried about it, but I was fine.
This is the first dungeon in destiny history that doesn’t have a tedious/annoying part. Underwater parts in Ghosts, 2nd encounter in Grasp, 1st encounter of shattered throne, circuit rooms in spire etc. Also I love how damage phases are quick to get to and short. Nearly all other dungeon bosses take ages and lots of work to get to a damage phase.
1st in shattered throne takes like 90-120 seconds as long as you all know where the symbols are at, I wouldn’t call it tedious but I can agree with grasp and ghosts
Maybe premature, but having run this dungeon exactly twice so far (once on warlock, once on titan), I think this is my favorite dungeon yet. It's a nice change from the endless slogfest that is Ghosts of the Deep especially. The bosses all felt like a reasonable challenge in a full fireteam with folks who I have historically run a lot of GM Nightfalls with and the like. It's no challenge mode raid, but it also really shouldn't be IMO. Hits the perfect difficulty point for me to really enjoy the experience the whole way through, and I think a lot of it is specifically BECAUSE of the fact that failing a mechanic doesn't mean I wasted a half hour of my life.
I agree with your take on pressure. It wasn’t until my 9TH full clear that I had a wipe and it take a second for my team to realize “huh, that’s the first time.” I think the final boss is intense but competent players will very rarely find themselves wiping. The solo experience is quite difficult so I think this is a solid sweetspot for difficulty. Let the elite have their difficulty in solo dungeons and the normies enjoy a cool experience with some higher than average difficulty. Good vid as always.
I agree. I know MANY people who wiped constantly on final boss while my group found it quite easy. I think it’s in a good spot where good players can optimize it and try to get faster while average teams will get through it after a decent number of attempts
Destiny 2 is at it's heart a casual game. Dungeons are the next part of the on-ramp to the hardcore end game after non-matchmade Nightfalls. Datto as someone who is skilled at the game and has invested a *lot* of time into the game has a bit of a skewed perspective on this. "I guess there's Master [if I want difficulty]"--yes, there's a selectable difficulty for it to be harder. That's how it should be. If normal dungeons had the difficulty of Master dungeons it would probably chase my more casual friends away from the game and then in turn I'd likely leave with them. Datto even said this in another video; Destiny isn't very fun if you don't have friends to play with. He does at least acknowledge that yeah, he's now no longer in tune with most of the playerbase.
I don't think Datto was on the wrong track with "does this say more about state of game?" when he was describing the solo experience because yeah this time around was really about slugging it out and having the heals to back it up which is an infinitely more manageable situation than say Ghost's finale which solo experience I feel is a little bloated by preying way harder on physical boredom of all the mechanics and just how punished you can get if the boss doesn't cooperate or you have an inefficient dmg phase.
I agree that this dungeon wasn’t as tense, but oh boy is this dungeon fun. I ran ghost of the deep to get the navigator and catalyst, and the armor. Haven’t touched it since. I know it’s early, but I can absolutely see myself running this dungeon just to do it, whether with my team, or even joining random lfg’s. I consider this dungeon a win.
100% agreed. I think ghosts of the deep was a terrible dungeon. It was poorly designed. The first encounter is way too boring and long, the middle underwater section is WAY too long, and the final boss takes way too much time to set up with the bosses unnecessarily large health pool. This dungeon is fun, awesome setting, 3 bosses with somewhat simple but also somewhat different encounters, and an awesome final boss. I do agree with datto tho, in that there wasnt alot of pressure. I feel like if no totems are activated in any fight, then you should wipe.
@@Ashen_Night116Not really a true statement. The SMG is actually extremely good. Was in PvP before Target Lock was nerfed and still is for PvE if you got Demo/Incandescent. Obviously people can argue if it’s worth it if you already have Calus craftable and I’m not going to argue that I wouldn’t straight up farm for it (but TBH I wouldn’t straight up farm for anything in this game because it really doesn’t matter and barely affects your gameplay). Also the Wave Frame in the Kinetic slot is very good. People want to dump on it because it’s not Forbearance and it never will be… but it’s still an extremely good weapon with a roll as simple as Demo/Junkie. I use both of those even still… granted unless Dragon’s Breath is found to be undeniably best DPS strat it’s almost impossible to put Sunshot down if you’re playing serious. I have a hard time seeing any of the weapons here seeing play. Which is sad because not everything has to be meta but most of this stuff looks very low on the chance to take the spot of even your favorite casual daily driver.
I mean literally almost everyone and there mother farmed the final boss in ghost on master with the witherhoard glitch so there was literally no need to touch the dungeon other than the exotic and the catalyst.
I think this dungeon definitely had some “playtesty” elements, to see how some of those more advanced puzzles and environmental storytelling would go over with the playerbase. I think especially with more challenging seasonal activities, the difficulty ceiling for The Final Shape is probably going to emulate a lot of what we see here. I like seeing the experimental capacity of Bungie and I think this will ultimately lead to a more involved Game; Lore, Mechanics, and Gunplay.
I figured it might be worth mentioning that if you find yourself running out of heavy ammo a lot in there, a retrofit with the usual "fourth time's the charm + target lock" does wonders to the last boss. With how easy it is to maintain your aim on the crit spot, you sit on high target lock stacks very comfortably and the boss gets melted
yea i swapped to a machine gun with that roll in the 3rd encounter and was like "wtf this is so good, everyone's crying about rocket ammo but i am thriving"
@@A_Crab_YT Finders take 20-22 enemies to drop a tiny amount of ammo, they're often not worth it. I prefer to just farm out standard bricks rather than bother with finders.
I feel like between Ghost and Warlord, it really gave insights into what people want. If they took the intensity/timers of Ghost and the creativity/bosses from Warlord. I think next year we can have some banger Dungeons.
This dungeon, to me, is the Scourge of the Past of dungeons. You can casually jump in and run it relatively quickly, mechanics are easy enough to understand and it's fun.
While first boss is a pushover, I would put it as my 2nd favorite in the dungeon as the boss sets the pace of the encounter and not the player. Feels like a differernt kind of fight than other dungeon bosses
this dungeon definitely was made in a way to make it the go to lfg dungeon for once the system is released, especially with the quest wanting multiple dungeon clears
I also wonder if this felt "easier" because we haven't had to chase light level pinnacle cap increases for a dungeon released 3 days after the new season
I agree that there wasn't too much tension but that's actually something I like. I liked having a more chill, but still equally fun, dungeon to run through. My team and I took a few tries to beat a the final boss but we weren't using the most meta builds or anything, we were just using what we enjoy. I feel like each encounter has just the right amount of difficulty and mechanics that anyone can jump in, maybe using Fireteam Finder, and complete a run no problems. In my opinion, it's a very accessible dungeon for newer and older players.
Like i understand the loot is a bit disappointing but imo there should just be more activities in the game you play because they’re fun and engaging. Not everything should have a grind attached.
The pendulumn for dungeon difficulty really seems to be swinging between easy and simple to grasp and then into " this could have been a raid with a little extra tacked on" and I think this is a pretty good way to handle content updates for these dungeons. Wouldn't be surprised if the next dungeon will be more akin to Ghost of the Deep. I do like the tension of the harder dungeons but I'm very glad that this one has everything laid out in a way that allowed my team to come up with fun new ways to DPS bosses and tackle ad clear. For the first time in forever, I've found myself with a sniper rifle and anarchy in my inventory and just pull of nearly 1 phases. its a nice change of pace to see different things being more viable than others. Also really enjoyed that little bit of replayability tossed in with the quest and the prison cells. A little gimmick, a little "somethig else" to the experience. Really appreciate that. Only thing I didn't like is how light the lore stuff is. Armor and guns drop no lore despite coming from a dungeon with a cool backstory that should have a little more story to it.
About the tension thing. I just think there needs to be some sort of inbetween. I can see this dungeon becoming a snooze fest chill run eventually but I also just hate how intense the final boss of ghosts is. There's just SO MUCH going on ALL THE TIME, you never get a second of reprieve. I think Spire's last boss hits it pretty well actually. Sure, he's always chasing you down, and there's always supplicants and minotaurs on your tail as well, but dividing the arena in half gives you someplace to go to get a minute to think. I also like how which half is safer changes depending on where you are in the fight. While hydras are alive, the supplicants will never follow you into the reactor room, and the minotaurs will very rarely ever follow you towards the middle/back of their room.
I understand the idea of "oh there's no danger" but honestly this allows a fun as hell dungeon with some cool mechanics to also be chill as fuck and I'm so in for it
Why can't dungeons just be medium difficulty i'll never understand why people like Datto get annoyed by it lol. Ghosts of the Deep was overtuned to hell and was just a slog. Why does every new piece of content have to be contest crota's end difficulty lmao
Dungeon is cool; cool armor for stasis/winter fashion; interesting weapons, but could use a buff for the sidearm and/or sword to boost usability. The tension for the final boss you’re probably losing probably has to do with the health needed to progress and/or the time needed to damage.
Sometimes I wonder what Soulsborne games have done to people’s sense of what “fun” is. I had a blast, and I think this is a great onboard to get people into dungeons, the way Nezzy is for raids. I look forward to running this a bunch.
5:03 you know what's really frustrating :) needing to "tag" the Hex drinker in a solo flawless run when the boss is a smdge away from finial stand and the Hex Drinker TP's to the top floor.... :) when your at the bottom :).... Or the ogre nocking you back into the killbox off the map :) ... Or your rocket colliding with the final boss's attack and killing you :) Or the boss oneshoting you because of your framerate :)... I'm mot mad that none of these are my fault noooooo not at all...... :)
As a team this dungeon is wayyyy more fun than challenging. Solo experience is very fun AND challenging. It’s not as frustrating when you die compared to Ghosts because you don’t have to walk 15 miles underwater to get to the next boss
Quick tip for the final encounter in particular. Glaives are so nice for when you have to sit in the taken totems. They don't transfer the buff so you have to swap for that but the safety is so worth it.
This Dungeon was more towards exploration and uncovering secrets than it is stopping an attempted resurrection of Oryx. Elite players will find it easy due to lack of punishment for mistakes but at the same time as you said you are an elite player and I imagine some players will find the fights harder than you have.
The rocket pistol is pretty good in PvE and people who have it should give it a try! It one shots Barrier Champion shields (if you have Anti-Barrier Sidearm) and it feels like it has pretty good ammo economy while being able to output pretty decent damage.
We noticed that if you don’t have consistent active healing there’s some challenge to the final boss. The ground blights spawning in the back of platforms puts pressure on you to watch your back even when you think it’s safe. They also add additional difficulty to finding a place to heal up. Builds with banner of war, restoration or cure pretty dramatically impact survivability.
I feel like this is built to be Blueberry’s second dungeon after Grasp. Very simple, very forgiving, but it takes a bit of knowledge to understand and execute a full run either in a group or especially solo
@@thesavagegummybear7341 It's literally the easiest dungeon in the game. The boss encounters give you your super back for free. The second encounter is basically just an ad clear encounter. What you mean it's not a blueberry dunegon?
Ghost of Deep Dungeon final boss, also had no Tensions either. You could take as much time as you wanted. I like both but hate the Water traversal parts.
While I don't LOVE much about this dungeon, I will say its the most consistently good dungeon from start to finish. It completely lacks those "tedious for the sake of being tedious" moments, and encounters that we wish were one phase shorter. I'm so burnt out on Destiny and still had a lot of fun. That says a lot.
My buddy and I got high as shit and did the dungeon. 3rd boss gave us some difficulties cause we were so one at that point but it was honestly a blast.
full disclosure, I'm not a big pve player, but the exotic from this dungeon feels pretty insane in pve so far. Free devour on any subclass as well as on-hit siphon, ridiculous damage-per-bolt especially considering the near-bottomless reserves, tracking allowing for highly mobile damage, and free weaken once you get the cat done is making this thing feel stronger than damn near any other gun I've used in pve. I've been running it on arc with a solar heavy, meaning using the seasonal artifact i can have amplified, radiant and devour at once whilst scorching, jolting and weakening the opponent, which is very fun. Highly recommend
I feel like the Difficulty has been tuned to match the upcoming Fireteam Finder and to make it more forgiving as most people will probably jump into this first.
I love this dungeon a lot! It's a perfect dungeon for people who want to test out builds and to just chill and do a dungeon with someone. I love me a challenge, but I prefer dungeons to be like mini-raids with no timers or wipe mechanics. Possibly in the future they could add dungeon variants that give new mechanics and stuff to the bosses to make it harder, or limit your revives, etc. But I do think this is my all time favorite dungeon all around.
i feel they cant add an enrage mechanic or something like that bc its meant to be able to be done solo yknow? if there was an enrage at 3rd phase no one would be able to do it, but yeah maybe some time limits would be good like in duality like u said
This dungeon feel like a good intro to dungeon diving. Like a step up from Prophecy. Edit. Got the sword and pistol. Pistol is fun. Forerunner+rocket pistol is kinda amusing with special ammo finisher on Arcloc.
I loved that the set up to damage phase was quick and you had control of when you started so if you needed to heal or try to wait for a supper to come back you could but still had to keep moving and fighting as there was no exact safe space to move back to for agro to cool off. Everyone in my team, who all have at least one solo completion of a dungeon each are all interested in trying to run this solo because while it is hard it is manageable with practice and set up. I actually tried Parasite and while I couldn't get it to work right I want to give it another try once I get a bit more familiar with the run.
I'm going to disagree on the first point I saw a white ring and knew I needed to stand near it immediately and when there was no immune or damage numbers on the boss or totem I then noticed the noise of it charging up. Didn't feel awkward at all
second encounter is my favorite, the special sidearms are cool, I also really like the demo chain reaction sword I got. giving a bump to caster frames would make it feel even better
Except his take here is terrible. Normal mode dungeons are not the place for pinnacle endgame levels of difficult content. If you want that, then go solo the dungeon on master difficulty. End of story.
@@mriguy7989 yes because you can either have ez pz could do it with one eye closed (lol) difficulty or solo master, nothing in between, its not like the stark jump from normal the legend is a huge problem that people have with this game. OH WAIT IT IS. It's way more rewarding when you beat the dunegon and it actually feels like you've overcome some obstacle
@@Storse I’ve soloed dungeons like Ghosts of the Deep and Duality. I’ve done them on Master difficulty. I have the seals for them. I’m no stranger to doing difficult content. I just have enough common sense to know that normal mode dungeons are not and should not be for the top 1% of players who think everything has to be hard. That’s utter stupidity and something that I’m not surprised comes out of the mouth of someone like Datto who lives in his own little Destiny content creator bubble and thinks everything should be made for people like him.
Have not run the dungeon but I watched your first run on stream and your run with Jrv and Trv, and I had a great time! Can’t wait to run this later this week
I hated the last two dungeons but this one has been my favorite of all time, and I think it's the lack of tension you're talking about. This one feels like it respects your time.
This dungeon is a whole other experience on master. 1st and 2nd encounter ramp up in difficulty to almost legendary NF levels and then 3rd encounter just sends it going master almost GM levels of chaos. highly recommend trying it once for the challenge
I do agree that more challenge is more fun. In this dungeons, I kind of like that their is no danger or hard mechanic, because now when a LFG teammate makes a mistake it doesn't really effect the run. I don't need to watch over my teammates every second run.
For people struggling with ammo for final boss, found Finders, Scout and Graviton Lance was making plenty if you let one guy deal with the psion spawns with the Catalyst. Was usually at 9-10 by the time we got to the top for the DPS phase
To Elitist datto: I agree and disagree for the boss fights at least; Ghosts of the deep was and is my least favorite dungeon in the game, doing 15 min of mechanics for what 40 seconds of damage with ads crawling all over you is not a good experience ESPECIALLY solo. Even for hard core players this doesnt feel great to do, rewarding when you get it sure, but man a pain in the ass. This dungeon allows for some wiggle room which im ok with the mechanics are not hard but that warlord ruin boss solo hits like a truck if you dont have restoration or banner its going to be tougher than i think you give it credit but overall i think its a great dungeon
The Blight Totems could have used an 'immune' message when you try to shoot them, and maybe a larger starting size for the blight ball so it was more clear when you were making progress while standing in the circle.
Man the enemies are called tarnished and the scribs that are glowing looks like does glowing lizards from dark souls and etc the dungeon is heavily inspired for Dark souls and Elden ring
@@thesavagegummybear7341 then a praise the sun emote for the cherry on top, man such a shame the armor could have been a reference to Beserker, Guts for titans; Griffith for Hunters; and Skeleton Knight for Warlocks. Its just that Dark Souls is heavily inspired by Beserker, hell we even got Guts sword, world shaper.
Since I couldn’t really contribute anything to a blind raid, I love that there are dungeons for mid gamer plebs like me (= doing them blind with my buds is so cool and rewarding.
This has been my favorite dungeon by far because I love this side of destiny’s aesthetics. Normally I would side with you on the lack of difficulty, but to me, if the dungeon is fun and aesthetically pleasing (which it is) then difficulty takes a back seat for me. I’m excited for the solo flawless.
I love difficulty, I'm a huge souls fan, but I also adored this dungeon. This dungeon felt like it was designed to fulfill a different role than everything else in the game. It was a story, an adventure. It was a chance to step into trouble instead of having it show up at our door.
@@ScripzureSouls players often bring it up as it helps define the type of difficulty. For example, a game like beat saber is difficult in one way while cod zombies is difficult in another way.
I loved how the last boss of this dungeon calls back to the Riven fight. Not only do the floating eyes have the same pattern that she does, but the pursuit section where you can really pour the damage on lines up with the falling section where you shoot Riven's blisters (You know, the bit that gets skipped because we're so powerful that Riven dies as soon as we get back to the top floor of her chamber)
This dungeon had the BEST solo flawless experience that I had the pleasure to complete. It rewards those who can optimize time and damage. I also appreciated that the in-between encounter sections were a minimum 3 mins. FYI, solo flawless emblem does NOT drop upon completion, neither does the ghost shell on master.
I don't mind the lack of "tension" or dire situations. It's a dungeon. This is definitely more catered to players who aren't necessarily that good, and they'll face a challenge if they can't balance multiple minor mechanics that add up and get easily out of control for people who don't pay attention to ad clear. I like there being some more thematic and fun chill dungeons like Warlord's Ruin and then dungeons that are more difficult or pressure intensive like ghosts of the deep masters or the final room in masters spire. I'd rather they push that focus of gameplay that really gives you tension and struggle in raids where it really REALLY matters, especially on day 1 attempts for folks.
You mentioned that you weren't sure how much other struggled- so i can provide a little bit of input here! I was under light level (1804) for the final encounter, and was dying to a LOT. Despite this, my team was able to complete the encounter no matter how many times we died as long as at least one person was alive. It didn't have me struggling against mechanics, just struggling against add clear. I did find Spire of the Watcher a lot more difficult, and I felt almost constant anxiety in Spire compared to here, where I was just a bit frustrated with the adds. I did kind of like it for that reason as I think it's accessible for a wider audience, but I know that as the general audience progresses in light level it'll get easier and easier. In terms of difficulty, I'd probably relate it to prophecy (a dungeon i can do in my sleep, just with a bit of anxiety over add clear). Overall though the creativity was incredible and i loved this dungeon so so so much.
Can't say I was a fan of the sections of health at a time with the last boss. Sure it wasn't difficult just took soooo long. It was my first run so the damage wasn't optimal but i would prefer longer damage phases.
Just wanna say, risk runner goes hard in the final encounter. There’s basically 0 psions. If you’ve got banner + risk runner + woven… you have infinite banner + seemingly infinite DR. For my solo I think I’ll be using that and rocket + a sniper. Should be a pretty easy time
yeah, I wasn't able to finish my solo attempt due to time constraints but this is 100% the play during the final boss unless you need something else specific that precludes it. my banner of war just wasn't keeping up until I added that in
Ghosts is still superior to me! But this dungeon was still lots of fun and the environment was fresh feeling but so was deep's ocean. I just want more challenge, there is very little moments where screwing something up is costly as you mentioned
I really enjoyed opening / first encounter compared to say the GoTD opening where you hit 3 dunks and your teams like “wtf is it over yet”? And totally your right, the totems we organically burn down / avoid based on experience, my team had the same response on first run lol. We went back and forth on what they were meant for until we realized.
Our team did it blind getting the "only use bow/galive/sword" achievement. Basically had the same experience you did, but due to the limitations of the weapons struggled a bit. Ran the boss via checkpoint after getting the achievement and switching weapons out and it was much easier. A lot of very cool comments out of my team. We really liked and enjoyed the dungeon. Good job Bungie.
Devil's advocate for the new dungeon Intrinsic - since it includes barricades as constructs, it's helpful for going against Void Titans, considering their strength right now.
I've learned that using the tether on the final boss will also lock in all of the eyes they can spawn, and you can just pump damage into it as long as the tether is active.
probably my favorite first time dungeon experience ever. for the first time my team and I went in blind and on master mode for our first clear. we were about 25-30 power under and 4.5 hours later we finished. that sense of urgency was definitely there on master. all of us felt that it was a rewarding and amazing time.
There needs to be a place for newer players doing dungeons without optimal gear, build and weapons. That's why this dungeon works. It's fun to play and isn't hardcore punishing at all levels.
Fruit spent 2 hours on duality final boss and never wiped once. It's a dungeon Datto, none of the other dungeons posed any threat if you messed up either. You just do the dps phase again which is what happens here as well. This dungeon actually had a wipe mechanic (first ever for a dungeon I believe), where you get the tag debuff automatically and has to get rid of it, similar to a templar oracle curse. Wiping isn't common for dungeons. You're never in any danger from the mechanics and I think it's a design direction bungie applies to dungeons. Any wipes are from being overwhelmed by the adds/boss. If anything, this dungeon takes us a little closer to a raid. Lastly, not everything needs to make the best players in the world feel that it's challenging on normal mode. It's perfect for what it needs to be. On the difficult side for players that don't min/max like you.
The blind run I did only took like 1 min in the dungeon because I was shooting random stuff and noticed the wheel turning. I then said we should all turn them to the right cause it sounded like a good idea, one teammate obviously misunderstood what I meant by right, and so we hit 4r l2 which happens to be a very common pattern and just like that it was solved. We took like 45min on the final boss cause we couldn't figure out how to get rid of the hex curse. We eventually gave up on completely blind and looked it up and it said to tag the immune scorn.
I’m fine with the dungeon loot filling gaps in the loot table, but it’s still dungeon gear, and it needs to be better than the average bow, sword, etc. that you get from seasonal and playlist activities. Hoping caster frame swords get a buff mid season, and I’m excited to see what people can do with the sidearm.
I did my first run with a couple of buds last night, was pretty fun. We went straight into Master after and are struggling a bit with damage mainly due to poorly timed deaths, so going back in later. It's a good experience
While I agree with the “there’s no pressure” I think it’s definitely intentional we had Duality (tight damage window more punishing) then we had Spire(not as punishing) and you can just try again. After that we got Ghosts (much more punishing and intense) and with this one we are back to Spire levels of intensity. So I do like the mixture of both since dungeons also target solo players and I feel having that present in dungeons is a much better idea than devaluing any raids experiences like they did with Root of nightmares.
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
So fun to see some heavy creativity from the dungeon team. Playing in a space like this that felt so unique and themed was awesome. We’ve spent so much time in weird alien bright spaces being in a castle with scorn and taken was awesome. So much fun
Definitely brought back a bit of that more grounded D1 feel, which is nice. Not saying the super scifi settings aren't cool it's just nice to have variety.
@@MattTheHuman9the grounded d1 feel I think is the best one we achieve. That’s why hive theme expansions tend to turn out so good, since they touch more on this than the vex or other factions do.
It felt like I had guns in dark souls
This dungeon has made me wish we got way more new areas on earth. I just imagine the places we have yet to see that could me visually amazing
The dresstiny though
The acolyte eyes looking like the eyes of an Ahamkara during the final boss is such a nice touch.
Omg I just noticed that
same! i was pointing out that killing the eyes felt like entering wishes
Those are the ahamkaras eyes in spirit. We are fighting the avatar of the ahamkaras wish after all, petra even says so.
and the eyes are in the same arrangement as riven's eyes
God that such a nice reference for a riven legit sucker like me
Hot tip for final boss top floor, you can use deadfall tether and it will kill basically all the eyes for its entire duration, paired with Orpheus rigs and got some super long dps phase
Edit: hot tip number 2, try to aim the tether at the top of the meatball, it'll make it easier for it to grab the eyes but also won't block the crit on the boss cause tethers do block bullets
Dragons breath/ignitions in general do that as well, in case anybody fancies solar
Both of these tips are great! I'll give these a shot on the next run for sure!
but then i would have to run void
@@mrinferno1571 you can run gyrfalcons with graviton Lance for supreme ad clear
Cant wait for hunters to shoot tethers and quivers right on top of the crit spot 🤦🏻♂️
I 100% prefer this kind of traversal than ghosts. Having almost no way to speed up platforming sections is always a bad design choice imo. New dungeon is super fun and actually rewards you for knowing where your going.
I much prefer the ghosts travel section. Once you learn how to jump down the spire it goes fairly quick and i hatr tip toeing around traps
@@joemoe650the traps can also be learned lol. It just may take a while longer to do that since you're dealing with directions and that's always harder to learn.
But the reason I like this one more is that it actually feels like the more you traverse and get closer to the bosses (especially final boss) the more dangerous the enemies you encounter along the way. This keeps you engaged all the way through
I don’t really agree. If you know what you’re doing in ghosts you can get through that section faster than the transition encounter in this dungeon. It’s just a perception issue. Imo we shouldn’t be designing dungeons around a perception issue.
@@EggyWeggyIII I mean, we actually should because that's exactly how the human brain works. If something FEELS slow, but actually isn't, the literal fact doesn't matter. The experience will still be slow and less engaging which leads to boredom.
This is the same technique advertisers, film makers, etc use to make a 2 hour long movie feel like 1 hour.
In other words, if you're going to make traversal sections that are longer than a 10 second walk, they need to be engaging or you risk people getting bored
@@Mr-R.R. the thing is, something being engaging is extremely subjective. I’ve heard from a bunch of people that this maze section is just as boring. Their reasoning is that the ghosts area is way more visually stimulating than running through the same tunnel for a few min. Yes perception should be taken into account but it should absolutely not be the controlling factor.
I think it's good to have a variety of difficulty and intensities for Dungeons. Ghosts was a great first time experience but it's a bit long in the tooth now having pushed against that barrier for a while now.
i know it isn't super popular but duality is just oh so perfect, i still prefer prophecy mostly because of the environment but combat-wise duality just feels like perfect difficulty and tension
Yeah dude, Duality was just so chaotic and nuts, I hated it.
I think Datto was way off on this one.
This is exactly what a dungeon should be ,
A semi challenging chill mini raid for a 3 buddy fireteam.
If you want extremely chaotic encounters and pressure timers, with super mechanics....
you should be Raiding on master mode.
Not doing dungeons.
I would’ve loved a “zone capture” style progress circle for capturing the taken totem things personally. I feel like you can’t really tell your progress until more than half way through
the dark ball inside the totem gets smaller and smaller until you cleanse it
@@nicolapadoin9718 yeah, but that happens when you're about half-cleansed it. Sometimes while I'm cleansing the totem I'm thinking "wait, I'm not in the circle?", and only in 2-3 seconds does the ball starts decreasing in size
It literally takes 6 seconds. just stand in it
@@stormz9351 yeah, on your first clear when you don’t know it takes 6 seconds, you have no clue on your progress until it’s done
Agreed, the animation of the little blight ball inside the totem should scale more linearly from start to end of the cap duration, rather than starting to shrink halfway.
Or a zone cap progress circle, if it's not possible for Bungie to rescale the blight ball shrinkage.
Watching Datto continuously shoot the totems was unironically painful, I loved it
My team did that the entire dungeon. Imagine their reactions when I found out you can just stand by them instead of shooting them...
Anyone who says they didn't shoot the totems on their first run is lying
@@oxsila I didn't, but i watched a guide, sooooo
@@TriggerHappy-hd1cldoesn’t count
@@oxsila shot them once first encounter had it figured out by 2nd and never shot them again
I really enjoyed the emphasis on not just doing the dungeon once and forgetting it with the “in the shadow of the mountain” quest where you slowly unlock more of the story every time you complete a run and collect more of the lore bones. And that final portal (while only giving a random exotic was kinda lame) being a monologue from one of the characters we hear the least from was amazing
the final portal also drops the catalyst for the exotic fyi
The final boss was a real, genuine threat. It hit HARD even with max resilience and Emergency Reinforcement active, and while at level.
Emergency Protection is only 10% DR for what it’s worth, you get 15% from real resist mods. Basically no reason to ever use it
@@EdenPorterMusic I use it with Loreley. Loreley procs, and I'm recovering 35 HP/s with additional damage resistance. It's comfy.
@@EdenPorterMusicya, even still I went two void resist mods and a concussive dampener and 100% resil and it still ended up being a three shot
@@atsukana1704dam
Having done it multiple times on master mode and countless times on normal, i hate the final encounter so much, its awful. The taken ground shit, the barons not spawning the totems, the infinite enemy spam, the acolytes eyes doing damage, the barons spawning RIGHT in front of the boss, and worst of all, the glitchy terrible curse mechanic
I think it's good you mention the healing aspect of this dungeon. Even in a team of 3, it feels like even with high Resilience and good ad clear, there's so much random chip damage that not running a Healing build feels incredibly punishing. It feels like we've come full circle with the difficulty in this game: enemies have been ramped up and builds have been nerfed enough to where only the best survivability builds can compete. This is not a good sign for things like Arc Warlock, Stasis, etc that have minimal or no survivability options.
100% this. When they nerfed the amount of health the stasis shards give you, Stasis took a massive hit.
I definitely understand what you mean…
I wouldn’t use something like Arc Warlock as an example. Vesper of Radius is basically unkillable with spamming healing rifts that blind and having Arc buddies.
Stasis is a better example. Even then, though… it’s got a lot of play with turrets because adds tend to be on an elimination spawn… meaning if you freeze a lot and kill minimally which turrets can do you’ll control the add spawn decently.
Doesn’t mean I’d take Stasis into soloing this… but I would have no hesitation taking Arc Warlock for solo flawless.
@@nightismonochrome dude they nerfed it by like 2 health a shard in PVE when you account for the combatant DR
"Laughs in Assassin's Cowl Hunter"
It is literally impossible to die on arc lock with vesper since you never run out of rifts and everything around you just dies or is blinded. It made the last encounter into a joke for me solo.
My Duo and I's main gripe was our power ammo luck. Spending 10 minutes on the first floor of the final boss for a single brick even with finders was extremely painful.
ammo econ sucked in 3rd encounter i definitely agree. switched to a machine gun with fttc
Unequip your helmet and re-equip it. It’s a bug.
Dungeon is so cool looking and gameplay wise, but why oh why is the loot so mid :(
Edit: Completed the loot badge and got a godroll of most of the weapons and the exotic, and yeah its mid.
Mid is a understatement
Yeah I'm getting the exotic and pretty much won't touch it afterwards. Two fucking caster swords? Really bungie? One for free to play and others for dungeon? Like, just. Why lmao.
Love the rocket sidearm, its so good.
The loot is actually good what are you talking about?
Because it’s easy
For the final boss, my team used Ghjallerhorn to take care of the eyes and do damage at the same time, worked pretty effectively. I also used Lucky Pants with Malfeascence and it *COOKED* the boss really hard. At one point I had 9.4 million damage from using it primarily during the ascending damage phases, and as a backup when I ran out of rockets. It's what I plan to use going into solo flawless because there are so many taken and high health targets.
I can also understand Elitist Datto's take, this dungeon was pretty stakes free, but I think that having an even split of difficult dungeons and easy dungeons is good for newer players, and even older players who sometimes want to relax. This dungeon definitely fits into the doing it to relax with the buds category.
I agree, but if Ghosts is the qualification for Hard dungeons, I never want a "hard" dungeon again lol
I love using malf so ima use this next time I run it but what did you do about ad clear? Or did you just leave it to teammates. Handcannon aren’t the best at ad clearing.
@@camrendilbeck Just Malfeasance. It worked surprisingly well for me, since the detonation goes off when the target dies. I imagine my teammates helped out a lot, but in the end we had an even number of kills by the end of the dungeon.
Maybe a trace rifle would help if you're really worried about it, but I was fine.
@@josephrichardson7254 good to know. Ty
This is the first dungeon in destiny history that doesn’t have a tedious/annoying part. Underwater parts in Ghosts, 2nd encounter in Grasp, 1st encounter of shattered throne, circuit rooms in spire etc. Also I love how damage phases are quick to get to and short. Nearly all other dungeon bosses take ages and lots of work to get to a damage phase.
1st in shattered throne takes like 90-120 seconds as long as you all know where the symbols are at, I wouldn’t call it tedious but I can agree with grasp and ghosts
My clan mates would disagree. Everyone else in my clan just despises the final boss of this dungeon.
@@quasimoto1036 you have to do the same thing 7 times that’s the definition of tedium.
That's my gripe on a ton of the boss encounters we get. Lengthy mechanics, short damage phase. It just turns solo play into a grind
@@Moobeus tedious for me is when it takes an arduous amount of time, which it just simply does not
Maybe premature, but having run this dungeon exactly twice so far (once on warlock, once on titan), I think this is my favorite dungeon yet. It's a nice change from the endless slogfest that is Ghosts of the Deep especially. The bosses all felt like a reasonable challenge in a full fireteam with folks who I have historically run a lot of GM Nightfalls with and the like. It's no challenge mode raid, but it also really shouldn't be IMO. Hits the perfect difficulty point for me to really enjoy the experience the whole way through, and I think a lot of it is specifically BECAUSE of the fact that failing a mechanic doesn't mean I wasted a half hour of my life.
I agree with your take on pressure. It wasn’t until my 9TH full clear that I had a wipe and it take a second for my team to realize “huh, that’s the first time.” I think the final boss is intense but competent players will very rarely find themselves wiping. The solo experience is quite difficult so I think this is a solid sweetspot for difficulty. Let the elite have their difficulty in solo dungeons and the normies enjoy a cool experience with some higher than average difficulty. Good vid as always.
I agree. I know MANY people who wiped constantly on final boss while my group found it quite easy. I think it’s in a good spot where good players can optimize it and try to get faster while average teams will get through it after a decent number of attempts
My team wiped once per encounter, but only once.
Destiny 2 is at it's heart a casual game. Dungeons are the next part of the on-ramp to the hardcore end game after non-matchmade Nightfalls. Datto as someone who is skilled at the game and has invested a *lot* of time into the game has a bit of a skewed perspective on this. "I guess there's Master [if I want difficulty]"--yes, there's a selectable difficulty for it to be harder. That's how it should be.
If normal dungeons had the difficulty of Master dungeons it would probably chase my more casual friends away from the game and then in turn I'd likely leave with them. Datto even said this in another video; Destiny isn't very fun if you don't have friends to play with.
He does at least acknowledge that yeah, he's now no longer in tune with most of the playerbase.
I don't think Datto was on the wrong track with "does this say more about state of game?" when he was describing the solo experience because yeah this time around was really about slugging it out and having the heals to back it up which is an infinitely more manageable situation than say Ghost's finale which solo experience I feel is a little bloated by preying way harder on physical boredom of all the mechanics and just how punished you can get if the boss doesn't cooperate or you have an inefficient dmg phase.
I agree that this dungeon wasn’t as tense, but oh boy is this dungeon fun. I ran ghost of the deep to get the navigator and catalyst, and the armor. Haven’t touched it since. I know it’s early, but I can absolutely see myself running this dungeon just to do it, whether with my team, or even joining random lfg’s. I consider this dungeon a win.
The only real reason to have run GotD was for the RL + Exotic/cata, that's it. Nothing else in that dungeon was actually worth it.
100% agreed. I think ghosts of the deep was a terrible dungeon. It was poorly designed. The first encounter is way too boring and long, the middle underwater section is WAY too long, and the final boss takes way too much time to set up with the bosses unnecessarily large health pool. This dungeon is fun, awesome setting, 3 bosses with somewhat simple but also somewhat different encounters, and an awesome final boss. I do agree with datto tho, in that there wasnt alot of pressure. I feel like if no totems are activated in any fight, then you should wipe.
similar here, this dubngeon is real fun.
ive ran the first boss around 35 times now just farming the loot
@@Ashen_Night116Not really a true statement.
The SMG is actually extremely good. Was in PvP before Target Lock was nerfed and still is for PvE if you got Demo/Incandescent. Obviously people can argue if it’s worth it if you already have Calus craftable and I’m not going to argue that I wouldn’t straight up farm for it (but TBH I wouldn’t straight up farm for anything in this game because it really doesn’t matter and barely affects your gameplay). Also the Wave Frame in the Kinetic slot is very good. People want to dump on it because it’s not Forbearance and it never will be… but it’s still an extremely good weapon with a roll as simple as Demo/Junkie.
I use both of those even still… granted unless Dragon’s Breath is found to be undeniably best DPS strat it’s almost impossible to put Sunshot down if you’re playing serious.
I have a hard time seeing any of the weapons here seeing play. Which is sad because not everything has to be meta but most of this stuff looks very low on the chance to take the spot of even your favorite casual daily driver.
I mean literally almost everyone and there mother farmed the final boss in ghost on master with the witherhoard glitch so there was literally no need to touch the dungeon other than the exotic and the catalyst.
I think this dungeon definitely had some “playtesty” elements, to see how some of those more advanced puzzles and environmental storytelling would go over with the playerbase. I think especially with more challenging seasonal activities, the difficulty ceiling for The Final Shape is probably going to emulate a lot of what we see here. I like seeing the experimental capacity of Bungie and I think this will ultimately lead to a more involved Game; Lore, Mechanics, and Gunplay.
30/10 cope
Fingers crossed
@@Sued3yif the leaks are true, the final boss looks like a template of how fighting the witness will be
I figured it might be worth mentioning that if you find yourself running out of heavy ammo a lot in there, a retrofit with the usual "fourth time's the charm + target lock" does wonders to the last boss. With how easy it is to maintain your aim on the crit spot, you sit on high target lock stacks very comfortably and the boss gets melted
Yeah that's what I ended up using for it and it worked nicely.
yea i swapped to a machine gun with that roll in the 3rd encounter and was like "wtf this is so good, everyone's crying about rocket ammo but i am thriving"
If you're struggling for ammo, equip heavy ammo finder on your helm. It is 10x more effective and you still get to use your super good RPGs
@@A_Crab_YT Finders take 20-22 enemies to drop a tiny amount of ammo, they're often not worth it. I prefer to just farm out standard bricks rather than bother with finders.
@@A_Crab_YTonly if you're ad clearing with weapons. Most people aren't.
I feel like between Ghost and Warlord, it really gave insights into what people want. If they took the intensity/timers of Ghost and the creativity/bosses from Warlord. I think next year we can have some banger Dungeons.
This dungeon, to me, is the Scourge of the Past of dungeons. You can casually jump in and run it relatively quickly, mechanics are easy enough to understand and it's fun.
I wish the guns were more of A - S- level weapons and not C - B level guns. Everything else is pretty cool.
While first boss is a pushover, I would put it as my 2nd favorite in the dungeon as the boss sets the pace of the encounter and not the player. Feels like a differernt kind of fight than other dungeon bosses
Elitist Datto is back! Time for my latest opinion to be formed.
this dungeon definitely was made in a way to make it the go to lfg dungeon for once the system is released, especially with the quest wanting multiple dungeon clears
I also wonder if this felt "easier" because we haven't had to chase light level pinnacle cap increases for a dungeon released 3 days after the new season
I agree that there wasn't too much tension but that's actually something I like. I liked having a more chill, but still equally fun, dungeon to run through. My team and I took a few tries to beat a the final boss but we weren't using the most meta builds or anything, we were just using what we enjoy. I feel like each encounter has just the right amount of difficulty and mechanics that anyone can jump in, maybe using Fireteam Finder, and complete a run no problems. In my opinion, it's a very accessible dungeon for newer and older players.
I thoroughly enjoyed this dungeon & the setting. Felt like we were doing some iron lord stuff
Like i understand the loot is a bit disappointing but imo there should just be more activities in the game you play because they’re fun and engaging. Not everything should have a grind attached.
The pendulumn for dungeon difficulty really seems to be swinging between easy and simple to grasp and then into " this could have been a raid with a little extra tacked on" and I think this is a pretty good way to handle content updates for these dungeons. Wouldn't be surprised if the next dungeon will be more akin to Ghost of the Deep. I do like the tension of the harder dungeons but I'm very glad that this one has everything laid out in a way that allowed my team to come up with fun new ways to DPS bosses and tackle ad clear. For the first time in forever, I've found myself with a sniper rifle and anarchy in my inventory and just pull of nearly 1 phases.
its a nice change of pace to see different things being more viable than others.
Also really enjoyed that little bit of replayability tossed in with the quest and the prison cells. A little gimmick, a little "somethig else" to the experience. Really appreciate that.
Only thing I didn't like is how light the lore stuff is. Armor and guns drop no lore despite coming from a dungeon with a cool backstory that should have a little more story to it.
About the tension thing. I just think there needs to be some sort of inbetween. I can see this dungeon becoming a snooze fest chill run eventually but I also just hate how intense the final boss of ghosts is. There's just SO MUCH going on ALL THE TIME, you never get a second of reprieve. I think Spire's last boss hits it pretty well actually. Sure, he's always chasing you down, and there's always supplicants and minotaurs on your tail as well, but dividing the arena in half gives you someplace to go to get a minute to think. I also like how which half is safer changes depending on where you are in the fight. While hydras are alive, the supplicants will never follow you into the reactor room, and the minotaurs will very rarely ever follow you towards the middle/back of their room.
Love the Transmog for hunters. i just thought the cloak was soft, but it actually has sick Ice Picks on the back
The armor is terrible
@@omensoffate An opinion
@@omensoffate L take.
@@lordpumpkinhead265 eh could have been sick to have scorn armor Instead. Enjoy the ice climbers role play I guess
@@omensoffate So instead of mountaineering gear, you'd have your Guardian covered in rusted scrap metal?
I understand the idea of "oh there's no danger" but honestly this allows a fun as hell dungeon with some cool mechanics to also be chill as fuck and I'm so in for it
Why can't dungeons just be medium difficulty i'll never understand why people like Datto get annoyed by it lol. Ghosts of the Deep was overtuned to hell and was just a slog. Why does every new piece of content have to be contest crota's end difficulty lmao
My team did the medieval weapons triumph our first run. It was a lot of fun.
Dungeon is cool; cool armor for stasis/winter fashion; interesting weapons, but could use a buff for the sidearm and/or sword to boost usability. The tension for the final boss you’re probably losing probably has to do with the health needed to progress and/or the time needed to damage.
Sometimes I wonder what Soulsborne games have done to people’s sense of what “fun” is.
I had a blast, and I think this is a great onboard to get people into dungeons, the way Nezzy is for raids. I look forward to running this a bunch.
5:03 you know what's really frustrating :) needing to "tag" the Hex drinker in a solo flawless run when the boss is a smdge away from finial stand and the Hex Drinker TP's to the top floor.... :) when your at the bottom :).... Or the ogre nocking you back into the killbox off the map :) ... Or your rocket colliding with the final boss's attack and killing you :) Or the boss oneshoting you because of your framerate :)... I'm mot mad that none of these are my fault noooooo not at all...... :)
As a team this dungeon is wayyyy more fun than challenging. Solo experience is very fun AND challenging. It’s not as frustrating when you die compared to Ghosts because you don’t have to walk 15 miles underwater to get to the next boss
I think you underestimate the danger level of the final encounter. You can get MELTED by the boss, eyes, etc
Yeah even with healing builds sometimes the AI just goes 'fuck you in particular ' and absolutely nukes you, it's still a tense fight imo
yep. immortal titan brain
How would he ever tell with good ole' banner of war making him invincible?
Quick tip for the final encounter in particular. Glaives are so nice for when you have to sit in the taken totems. They don't transfer the buff so you have to swap for that but the safety is so worth it.
This Dungeon was more towards exploration and uncovering secrets than it is stopping an attempted resurrection of Oryx. Elite players will find it easy due to lack of punishment for mistakes but at the same time as you said you are an elite player and I imagine some players will find the fights harder than you have.
The rocket pistol is pretty good in PvE and people who have it should give it a try!
It one shots Barrier Champion shields (if you have Anti-Barrier Sidearm) and it feels like it has pretty good ammo economy while being able to output pretty decent damage.
Actually struggled way more on this final boss than in ghosts
We noticed that if you don’t have consistent active healing there’s some challenge to the final boss. The ground blights spawning in the back of platforms puts pressure on you to watch your back even when you think it’s safe. They also add additional difficulty to finding a place to heal up. Builds with banner of war, restoration or cure pretty dramatically impact survivability.
I feel like this is built to be Blueberry’s second dungeon after Grasp. Very simple, very forgiving, but it takes a bit of knowledge to understand and execute a full run either in a group or especially solo
grasp? thats not a blueberry dungeon
bro what its one of the easiest dungeons unless u mean that its not free@@thesavagegummybear7341
@@thesavagegummybear7341 It's literally the easiest dungeon in the game. The boss encounters give you your super back for free. The second encounter is basically just an ad clear encounter. What you mean it's not a blueberry dunegon?
@@thesavagegummybear7341 Agreed. I think Prophecy is the most obvious blueberry dungeon.
@@EnigmacTheFirstit’s not hard but its definitely harder than either pit of heresy or shattered throne.
Ghost of Deep Dungeon final boss, also had no Tensions either. You could take as much time as you wanted. I like both but hate the Water traversal parts.
I liked spire and it's loot a lot, minus the 2 world drops.
But this dungeon was good too, the sidearm and bow is all that really interests me.
While I don't LOVE much about this dungeon, I will say its the most consistently good dungeon from start to finish. It completely lacks those "tedious for the sake of being tedious" moments, and encounters that we wish were one phase shorter. I'm so burnt out on Destiny and still had a lot of fun. That says a lot.
My buddy and I got high as shit and did the dungeon. 3rd boss gave us some difficulties cause we were so one at that point but it was honestly a blast.
full disclosure, I'm not a big pve player, but the exotic from this dungeon feels pretty insane in pve so far. Free devour on any subclass as well as on-hit siphon, ridiculous damage-per-bolt especially considering the near-bottomless reserves, tracking allowing for highly mobile damage, and free weaken once you get the cat done is making this thing feel stronger than damn near any other gun I've used in pve. I've been running it on arc with a solar heavy, meaning using the seasonal artifact i can have amplified, radiant and devour at once whilst scorching, jolting and weakening the opponent, which is very fun. Highly recommend
I feel like the Difficulty has been tuned to match the upcoming Fireteam Finder and to make it more forgiving as most people will probably jump into this first.
I love this dungeon a lot! It's a perfect dungeon for people who want to test out builds and to just chill and do a dungeon with someone. I love me a challenge, but I prefer dungeons to be like mini-raids with no timers or wipe mechanics. Possibly in the future they could add dungeon variants that give new mechanics and stuff to the bosses to make it harder, or limit your revives, etc. But I do think this is my all time favorite dungeon all around.
i feel they cant add an enrage mechanic or something like that bc its meant to be able to be done solo yknow? if there was an enrage at 3rd phase no one would be able to do it, but yeah maybe some time limits would be good like in duality like u said
This dungeon feel like a good intro to dungeon diving. Like a step up from Prophecy.
Edit. Got the sword and pistol. Pistol is fun. Forerunner+rocket pistol is kinda amusing with special ammo finisher on Arcloc.
This dungeon respected my time. This is where the difficulty should be. Master mode is the one for “I don’t have a family, make it hard”.
I loved that the set up to damage phase was quick and you had control of when you started so if you needed to heal or try to wait for a supper to come back you could but still had to keep moving and fighting as there was no exact safe space to move back to for agro to cool off. Everyone in my team, who all have at least one solo completion of a dungeon each are all interested in trying to run this solo because while it is hard it is manageable with practice and set up. I actually tried Parasite and while I couldn't get it to work right I want to give it another try once I get a bit more familiar with the run.
I'm going to disagree on the first point I saw a white ring and knew I needed to stand near it immediately and when there was no immune or damage numbers on the boss or totem I then noticed the noise of it charging up. Didn't feel awkward at all
second encounter is my favorite, the special sidearms are cool, I also really like the demo chain reaction sword I got. giving a bump to caster frames would make it feel even better
I love this dungeon sooo much
❤
Feels like a good mix to have some dungeons a bit “easier” so to say. Variation from the last few. It’s great overall.
Good to see Elitist Datto is still kicking
same
Except his take here is terrible. Normal mode dungeons are not the place for pinnacle endgame levels of difficult content. If you want that, then go solo the dungeon on master difficulty. End of story.
@@mriguy7989 yes because you can either have ez pz could do it with one eye closed (lol) difficulty or solo master, nothing in between, its not like the stark jump from normal the legend is a huge problem that people have with this game. OH WAIT IT IS. It's way more rewarding when you beat the dunegon and it actually feels like you've overcome some obstacle
@@mriguy7989 i forgot how hateful d2 players were towards difficulty.
@@Storse I’ve soloed dungeons like Ghosts of the Deep and Duality. I’ve done them on Master difficulty. I have the seals for them. I’m no stranger to doing difficult content. I just have enough common sense to know that normal mode dungeons are not and should not be for the top 1% of players who think everything has to be hard. That’s utter stupidity and something that I’m not surprised comes out of the mouth of someone like Datto who lives in his own little Destiny content creator bubble and thinks everything should be made for people like him.
Have not run the dungeon but I watched your first run on stream and your run with Jrv and Trv, and I had a great time! Can’t wait to run this later this week
I hated the last two dungeons but this one has been my favorite of all time, and I think it's the lack of tension you're talking about. This one feels like it respects your time.
This dungeon is a whole other experience on master. 1st and 2nd encounter ramp up in difficulty to almost legendary NF levels and then 3rd encounter just sends it going master almost GM levels of chaos. highly recommend trying it once for the challenge
I do agree that more challenge is more fun. In this dungeons, I kind of like that their is no danger or hard mechanic, because now when a LFG teammate makes a mistake it doesn't really effect the run. I don't need to watch over my teammates every second run.
For people struggling with ammo for final boss, found Finders, Scout and Graviton Lance was making plenty if you let one guy deal with the psion spawns with the Catalyst. Was usually at 9-10 by the time we got to the top for the DPS phase
To Elitist datto: I agree and disagree for the boss fights at least; Ghosts of the deep was and is my least favorite dungeon in the game, doing 15 min of mechanics for what 40 seconds of damage with ads crawling all over you is not a good experience ESPECIALLY solo. Even for hard core players this doesnt feel great to do, rewarding when you get it sure, but man a pain in the ass. This dungeon allows for some wiggle room which im ok with the mechanics are not hard but that warlord ruin boss solo hits like a truck if you dont have restoration or banner its going to be tougher than i think you give it credit but overall i think its a great dungeon
The Blight Totems could have used an 'immune' message when you try to shoot them, and maybe a larger starting size for the blight ball so it was more clear when you were making progress while standing in the circle.
If they had an immune then I'd think there'd be a way to make them not immune and would be on a different wild goose chase
@@jacob-2271 maybe remove the hit indicators then?
Man the enemies are called tarnished and the scribs that are glowing looks like does glowing lizards from dark souls and etc the dungeon is heavily inspired for Dark souls and Elden ring
the sword is also called the dragoncult sickle
@@thesavagegummybear7341 then a praise the sun emote for the cherry on top, man such a shame the armor could have been a reference to Beserker, Guts for titans; Griffith for Hunters; and Skeleton Knight for Warlocks. Its just that Dark Souls is heavily inspired by Beserker, hell we even got Guts sword, world shaper.
The jail section was the only place my team was stumped. But the entire dungeon was beautiful and enjoyable to me and the group i was with
Since I couldn’t really contribute anything to a blind raid, I love that there are dungeons for mid gamer plebs like me (= doing them blind with my buds is so cool and rewarding.
This has been my favorite dungeon by far because I love this side of destiny’s aesthetics. Normally I would side with you on the lack of difficulty, but to me, if the dungeon is fun and aesthetically pleasing (which it is) then difficulty takes a back seat for me. I’m excited for the solo flawless.
I love difficulty, I'm a huge souls fan, but I also adored this dungeon. This dungeon felt like it was designed to fulfill a different role than everything else in the game. It was a story, an adventure. It was a chance to step into trouble instead of having it show up at our door.
Souls games are difficult?
why do souls players have to bring it up when its not relevant 😂 worst community in gaming ngl
@@ScripzureSouls players often bring it up as it helps define the type of difficulty. For example, a game like beat saber is difficult in one way while cod zombies is difficult in another way.
I loved how the last boss of this dungeon calls back to the Riven fight. Not only do the floating eyes have the same pattern that she does, but the pursuit section where you can really pour the damage on lines up with the falling section where you shoot Riven's blisters (You know, the bit that gets skipped because we're so powerful that Riven dies as soon as we get back to the top floor of her chamber)
I see eliteist datto I click
This dungeon had the BEST solo flawless experience that I had the pleasure to complete. It rewards those who can optimize time and damage. I also appreciated that the in-between encounter sections were a minimum 3 mins. FYI, solo flawless emblem does NOT drop upon completion, neither does the ghost shell on master.
This dungeon was phenomenal visually and felt more rewarding to do the mechanics right, rather than punishing you for doing anything slightly off.
I don't mind the lack of "tension" or dire situations. It's a dungeon. This is definitely more catered to players who aren't necessarily that good, and they'll face a challenge if they can't balance multiple minor mechanics that add up and get easily out of control for people who don't pay attention to ad clear. I like there being some more thematic and fun chill dungeons like Warlord's Ruin and then dungeons that are more difficult or pressure intensive like ghosts of the deep masters or the final room in masters spire.
I'd rather they push that focus of gameplay that really gives you tension and struggle in raids where it really REALLY matters, especially on day 1 attempts for folks.
I honestly think this dungeon was the most fun dungeon I have ever played
You mentioned that you weren't sure how much other struggled- so i can provide a little bit of input here! I was under light level (1804) for the final encounter, and was dying to a LOT. Despite this, my team was able to complete the encounter no matter how many times we died as long as at least one person was alive. It didn't have me struggling against mechanics, just struggling against add clear. I did find Spire of the Watcher a lot more difficult, and I felt almost constant anxiety in Spire compared to here, where I was just a bit frustrated with the adds. I did kind of like it for that reason as I think it's accessible for a wider audience, but I know that as the general audience progresses in light level it'll get easier and easier. In terms of difficulty, I'd probably relate it to prophecy (a dungeon i can do in my sleep, just with a bit of anxiety over add clear). Overall though the creativity was incredible and i loved this dungeon so so so much.
Can't say I was a fan of the sections of health at a time with the last boss. Sure it wasn't difficult just took soooo long. It was my first run so the damage wasn't optimal but i would prefer longer damage phases.
At the top of the climb that's what you get if you do it right
I mean u can solo one cycle the final boss so health isn’t too crazy
Just wanna say, risk runner goes hard in the final encounter. There’s basically 0 psions. If you’ve got banner + risk runner + woven… you have infinite banner + seemingly infinite DR. For my solo I think I’ll be using that and rocket + a sniper. Should be a pretty easy time
yeah, I wasn't able to finish my solo attempt due to time constraints but this is 100% the play during the final boss unless you need something else specific that precludes it. my banner of war just wasn't keeping up until I added that in
Ghosts is still superior to me! But this dungeon was still lots of fun and the environment was fresh feeling but so was deep's ocean. I just want more challenge, there is very little moments where screwing something up is costly as you mentioned
Definitely has better loot.
I really enjoyed opening / first encounter compared to say the GoTD opening where you hit 3 dunks and your teams like “wtf is it over yet”? And totally your right, the totems we organically burn down / avoid based on experience, my team had the same response on first run lol. We went back and forth on what they were meant for until we realized.
Great dungeon! Terrible absolutely awful loot
The jail part is what stumped me and my team. We were talking about so many different ways to get out.. Eventually we got lucky.
So elitist Datto doesnt want bungie to change things just to cater to him? wow wish a certain world first player would be as selfless….
Our team did it blind getting the "only use bow/galive/sword" achievement.
Basically had the same experience you did, but due to the limitations of the weapons struggled a bit. Ran the boss via checkpoint after getting the achievement and switching weapons out and it was much easier.
A lot of very cool comments out of my team. We really liked and enjoyed the dungeon.
Good job Bungie.
Back end of your vid commentary was absolutely bang on for solo on your feelings.
Devil's advocate for the new dungeon Intrinsic - since it includes barricades as constructs, it's helpful for going against Void Titans, considering their strength right now.
I've learned that using the tether on the final boss will also lock in all of the eyes they can spawn, and you can just pump damage into it as long as the tether is active.
probably my favorite first time dungeon experience ever. for the first time my team and I went in blind and on master mode for our first clear. we were about 25-30 power under and 4.5 hours later we finished. that sense of urgency was definitely there on master. all of us felt that it was a rewarding and amazing time.
There needs to be a place for newer players doing dungeons without optimal gear, build and weapons. That's why this dungeon works. It's fun to play and isn't hardcore punishing at all levels.
The stone keep in winter gives me the vibes from Castle level of the original Painkiller and I love it
Fruit spent 2 hours on duality final boss and never wiped once. It's a dungeon Datto, none of the other dungeons posed any threat if you messed up either. You just do the dps phase again which is what happens here as well. This dungeon actually had a wipe mechanic (first ever for a dungeon I believe), where you get the tag debuff automatically and has to get rid of it, similar to a templar oracle curse.
Wiping isn't common for dungeons. You're never in any danger from the mechanics and I think it's a design direction bungie applies to dungeons. Any wipes are from being overwhelmed by the adds/boss. If anything, this dungeon takes us a little closer to a raid.
Lastly, not everything needs to make the best players in the world feel that it's challenging on normal mode. It's perfect for what it needs to be. On the difficult side for players that don't min/max like you.
The blind run I did only took like 1 min in the dungeon because I was shooting random stuff and noticed the wheel turning. I then said we should all turn them to the right cause it sounded like a good idea, one teammate obviously misunderstood what I meant by right, and so we hit 4r l2 which happens to be a very common pattern and just like that it was solved. We took like 45min on the final boss cause we couldn't figure out how to get rid of the hex curse. We eventually gave up on completely blind and looked it up and it said to tag the immune scorn.
I’m fine with the dungeon loot filling gaps in the loot table, but it’s still dungeon gear, and it needs to be better than the average bow, sword, etc. that you get from seasonal and playlist activities. Hoping caster frame swords get a buff mid season, and I’m excited to see what people can do with the sidearm.
I did my first run with a couple of buds last night, was pretty fun. We went straight into Master after and are struggling a bit with damage mainly due to poorly timed deaths, so going back in later. It's a good experience
While I agree with the “there’s no pressure” I think it’s definitely intentional we had Duality (tight damage window more punishing) then we had Spire(not as punishing) and you can just try again. After that we got Ghosts (much more punishing and intense) and with this one we are back to Spire levels of intensity. So I do like the mixture of both since dungeons also target solo players and I feel having that present in dungeons is a much better idea than devaluing any raids experiences like they did with Root of nightmares.
You should do another retrospective after the final shape comes out, I love those videos so much