French Education System Explained: Grandes Ecoles vs University
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- Опубликовано: 1 фев 2018
- The higher French Education system explained - what is up with these private Grandes Ecoles and how do they compare to the French University system? What are the differences between the students? How do their employment prospects stack up?
What is a Grande Ecole? You may have heard of the French Grandes Ecoles or French Business Schools. An elitist system with access given based on your ranking in a highly competitive exam after two years of preparatory school. An amazing network and professional experience is on offer here. Being private, they can also be very expensive. French universities on the other hand have their benefits too. They are free and focus much more on self-directed learning. The French university system, however, can be seen as too theoretical and often orientating students towards becoming researchers.
So, where to study in France? Is there a right way place to study in France? If you're thinking about studying in France then perhaps this video can help you to decipher the system.
What about you? Have you been to a French Grande Ecole? Or a French university? What do you think are the pros and cons of the two systems? I look forward to hearing from you down below!
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The fact that "Grandes Écoles" are private is true about business schools, but less about engineering and scientific schools. The most famous ones are actually public, like Polytechnique, ENS, Mines, or Centrale.
I'm from a "Grande École", and I did a double degree with an university, because it can be a bit better for a few domain like scientific research (which is what I want to do). It is also an advantage when you want to work in a foreign country since University is known everywhere.
Hi! I was planning to apply to do my master at UPMC (now renamed Sorbonne U, I believe). I did my undergraduate in Canada and my research focus is Neuroscience and Biology, so I never really considered a Grande Ecole, but now I'm conflicted. Do you think its much better if I try to get into ENS or another grand ecole?
If you want to do scientific research and have the opportunity to get into ENS, that's clearly a choice worth considering. other than that, I don't think any other grande école would be much better than UPMC. (I don't really know much about UPMC in particular though)
Hello dear, well I said "kind of the equivalent" I did not say it was private, because it is complex and I wanted to help people to understand. Please also bear in mind that this is not true for international students, they have to pay a lot to go to French Grandes Ecoles and I'm talking about polytechnique for instance! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought i was only talking to students abroad! :)
Yep, in science and for engineering schools, the Grandes Ecoles are free in most cases.
If you get in Polytechnique or ENS, you also have a scholarshop from the state (around the SMIC, and only if you are a citizen from the EU).
I'm sorry but half of grandes ecoles are also public : beaux arts, arts deco, estienne, les gobelins, (yeah i did art studies)... you just have to pass the test, but its worth it, and public.
on the opposit side you stihave a lot of private shcools which aren't better than public ones, have no test to enter, and are just expensive and shitty.
I think it depends on the job sector
Most of Grandes Écoles are actually gouvernement public institutions, Ecole Polytechnique, Central, Normal Sup a lot ENSI's etc. On the other hand a lot of business "Grandes Écoles" are private.
Adrigue le vert Et vive maths sup / maths spe !
Hello you are absolutely right, I meant that they are the equivalent of private universities like Oxford, Stanford or Harvard in terms of recognition and higher selection, because the audience is international and not French. :)
This was supposed to be a very simplified picture of the French system because it is very difficult to understand from the outside and I'm happy to see people actually give much more insights than I could in a 10min video!
Some of them even pay their students (Polytechnique, ENS)
Ce que l'on appelle "grandes écoles" sont des cursus que l'on intègre généralement après un concours d'où" les classes préparatoires aux grandes écoles". Certaines acceptent un certain quota d'élèves uniquement sur titre (donc sans concours). Aucun rapport avec le fait qu'elles soient privées ou pas.
@@TheMagicMadeline It just made you seem stupid.
YAASSS!!! Dans tes vidéos, tu parles toujours de sujets super intéressants !! Bisous :)
Hi !
First of all I really enjoy your videos : i'm french and it's amusing to see what people think about "us" worlwide. It's also fun to see how you describes the parisian stereotype. It perfectly matches what people think about Paris in other french region.
I've done a scientific "classe préparatoire" and i am now in a "grande école" (engineering school). I do agree with most of what you say here but I may add some things :
- According to me, the greatest difference between the uni and the "prepa" is that you study different subject simultaneously in prepa. For exemple after my 2 years of prepa I had the equivalent of a 2 years degree in maths and physics and I had good basis in engineering sciences, chemistry and english. Prépa is kind of an intensive uni for the first two years. For the scientific prepas, the objective is to have a general culture about as many scientific field as possible because there are a LOT of schools you can go to after a prepa. That's why sometimes people who have done a prepa think they work more than those who are in the uni.
However, the differences between uni and "grande ecole" are less and less important as you specialized yourself.
- From my point of view, prepa and uni are two different ways of doing the same thing and today there are few differences between having a master and an engineering school degree. The master leads of course more to do some research whereas the engineering school is more meant for the industry. But you can do both with the two diploma. I have a very good friend of mine who is in uni and studies the same subject as me and we basically have the same courses.
- There are publics and privates "grandes écoles". I am in a public one wich means that i pay the same fees as in uni. In the scientific field privates "grande ecoles" are not well rated (people are said to buy their degree). However, the organization in public and private schools are generally the same and the main differences with the uni are those you describes.
- There are differences between each field (sciences, social sciences, management, business ...). In every field there are unis,publics and privates "schools". The way tertiary education works depends on the field. The differences between unis and schools are more or less important in every field.
This is for the scientific part of the education system, i don't know much about the other fields.
I hope I was understandable, if you have any question don't hesitate to ask !
PS : sorry if I made some mistakes
En fait, il y a plus que deux voies possibles après le Lycée : IUT, BTS, Université, une myriade de "petites écoles" et les Grandes écoles. Après, si les universités et les grandes écoles sont parfois en concurrence (écoles de commerce vs fac d'éco/gestion, écoles normales supérieures vs fac d'histoire/lettres/philosophie, écoles d'ingénieurs+prépas vs fac de sciences), elles ne le sont pas toujours car il n'y a par exemple pas de grande école de droit (sauf à la rigueur le collège droit de sciencespo Paris) et pas de grande école de médecine. Inversement, il n'y a pas de fac où on peut faire des études de vétérinaire, il faut donc nécessairement passer par une école, comme pour devenir pilote d'avions, il n'existe pas d'université pour cela. Également, il faut préciser que toutes les grandes écoles ne sont pas privées : Polytechnique est une école publique, comme l'ENS, comme l'ENA, l'ENM...
Pour l'accès aux grandes ecoles certaines proposent ce qu'on appelle l'Accès sur titre. L'université fait de même.
Aux grandes écoles un certain nombre de places leur est attribué. Selon ton niveau d'étude précédent IUT, BTS (qui se place donc au même niveau d'étude que les Classes Prépa soit 2 ans) tu peux essayer d'entrer dans certaines écoles sans passer par le concours. Dans ce cas tu dois demander à ton école de faire un dossier avec une évaluation de continuation d'étude. le dossier est étudié par la Grande Ecole voulue. Il y a un entretien et une sélection faite.
Pour l'université quand tu viens d'IUT ou BTS selon la branche choisie il peut être proposé de sauter une ou deux années. Moi avec mon BTS on m'a proposé de sauter ma 1ère année de licence, ce que j'ai refusée.
Désolée c'est pas ici que je voulais placer mon commentaire mais la j'ai la flemme de le déplacer.
après il n'y a pas réellement de concurrence entre une école d'inge et une fac de science la finalité est totalement différente non ?
@@firestormz9913 j'ai toujours pensé que faire une école d'ingé était mieux perçu ...
Il y a des master dans des domaines d'ingénierie à la fac comme le génie civil, la mécanique.. C'est l'équivalent des écoles d'ingénieur, mais sciences c'est vaste
@@fussel895 bah c'est vrai.
Bonne video. Je pense qu ca peut se resumer comme ca:
- on a 3 systemes de selection en general: celle par l'usure (les universites publiques), par l'argent (les grandes ecole payantes, HEC, ESSEC) et par les competences a un instant T (les grandes ecoles gratuites necessitant des prepas la majorite du temps, genre X ou Centrale).
- Dans les universites, c'est simple de rentrer, mais tres dur de sortir avec un diplome valorisant, parce qu'en gros, t'es plutot livre a toi-meme. Donc le cote pragmatique, tu devras le trouver tout seul.
- Dans les deux autres systemes, la selection etant a l'entree, quand tu rentres t'es quasi certain de sortir avec ton diplome, et on te formate quasiment a rentrer dans le monde des entreprises.
Apres personnellement quand je suis sollicite pour un recrutement, j'ai tendance a favoriser les Universitaires, car dans ma branche on a davantage besoin de personnes autonomes et disruptives que de executants, meme si ils sont managers. J'ai fait les 3 systemes, et j'ai beaucoup plus appris sur ma facon de proceder dans ma periode universitaire que dans mes autres experiences.
Je suis interesse par les autres retours, si d'autres professionnels sont prets a partager leurs experiences.
Wow Rosie ! I know this video was released several months ago but I discovered your channel just last week ! I absolutely adore your content ! Your analysis of our culture (I'm French btw) is definitely excellent ! And I'm willingly using excellent, not "pas mal" even though I'm a teacher ah ah! Thank you so much for these videos !
Love your videos! Super helpful to someone in the US!
Hey ! Good job ! I just want to precise that to be an Engineer in France, you have to go to a Grande Ecole, BUT they are NOT PRIVATE, and cost the same that universities (less than 1000€). You have to do prépa first usually, but of course other way exist.
Hey Rosie, I love the content of your videos. You are always very spot on.
On this one though, I think I can add some perspective. I am french and studied engineering in a Grande Ecole (with Prepa Intégrée = no compétitive exam between year 2 and 3).
I would say that university vs grande école depends A LOT on what career you want and what field you’re in. And all grandes écoles aren’t private.
If you want to be:
a doctor -> University, selection is after year 1. And since it is free, it’s sooooo competitive.
Lawyer -> University too and very competitive as well.
Engineering -> grande écoles for the practical content, the access to labs and company funded research projects. Engineering schools are pretty diverse and have a lot of partnerships with universities abroad. (I studied in Michigan, and ended doing a MS at Wisconsin). The best engineering schools are public and free, the less-renowned ones are private.
Business -> grande école for the name, but the content in universities should be the same. The stigma is strong in the business school sector and in my opinion going to a grande école doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be more knowledgeable. The best business schools are the most expensive ( opposite than for engineering).
Teachers, -> you can get a master from a university and have to take an exam at the end of your master (CAPES, CAPEPS). If you don’t take that exam you will have to find what to do with your degree (Coach - if you studied physical education for exemple)
Now if you decide to be very focused in one area, let’s say physics, you will generally have to power through License, Master and PhD in the university. The first three years are usually spent amongst a lot of other students in crowded classes, and most students don’t have a clear idea of what they want to do. I think that someone who obtains a PhD from a university has a remarkable self-motivation and autonomy. These students are usually very bright and end up working in National Labs (and are not paid as much as they should - maybe you could do a video that compares salaries in France vs other countries 🤓).
Usually going to university for less than a master’s degree doesn’t open a lot of doors for a good career.
I don’t know so much about your guy’s field but I hope that I provided some insight on the rest.
Keep on going. Great work. 😉
Toujours un réel plaisir de regarder tes vidéos. Sujets toujours intéressants et traité avec brio. J'adore vraiment ta chaîne, ne change rien. Amicalement.
This is extremely interesting! Would love to hear more about the French school system 💙♥️
I probably should be working right now since I'm in prépa but I love your videos, it's very calming!
T'inquiète pas! :p moi je regardais des vidéos tous les jours en prépa et j'ai quand même réussi à intégrer haha! Courage ^^
Haha, in the UK, you have Oxford and Cambridge and ‘other universities’ 😜
Oxford, Cambridge, Russel Group then the others lol
😂😂😂 better!
Well said!
yes sure , 1000 times better than your shit french universities .
@@md.mahbubulbashar779 Not really. These British universities can’t even compete with US universities as a whole.
I think you should definitely invite someone on the show that went to a Grande École in order to get their point of view, you might be surprised.
Just because your interview was biased in so many ways.
Surprised by what? I did university and grande ecole (actually i had to do grande ecole in order to be competitive on the job market because all the top companies only recruit people from grande école... And usually only the top ones.. But they don't tell you that in high school, only the privileged knows how it works)
1) The only true "Grandes écoles" are free public schools for engineers, high-grade teachers (« agrégés »), army and navy officers. We have to be careful to not mix these with private business schools for which « grandes écoles » is a only a tag for marketing themselves. This tag is not recognized by the french ministry of national education who only admits « école supérieure » (higher school), which is quite a difference.
2) Selection process for business schools is not really what you may think : when you enter a « prépa commerciale », your chances to get a seat in a business school are of 100%… but entering the top three is indeed very, very difficult and needs a lot of harsh work.
You are totally free to say you come from a "grande école" if you went to a business school, because this is what everybody does, and "ça ne casse pas trois pattes à un canard". There is a "petite histoire" behind this : once upon a time, some higher schools gathered in a private association named "conférence des grandes écoles", designed to promote and defend the interests of their members. They did not own the words "grande école" and opened therafter their doors to business schools and now others (journalism, architecture...). But ultra-selective schools like sciences-po were not members until recently and all selective higher schools are not included in "conférence des grandes écoles", which is quite confusing. Entering this association was a very successful strategy for business schools to shine next to the old public, free, state-funded engineering schools, at the expense of confusing people's minds.
And thank you, I really like your videos ! Cheers !
Please, HEC has been part of the "conférence des grandes écoles" since the creation of this conference in 1973. Of course, the engineering schools are the traditional grandes écoles, for military use, but today everyone acknowledges that business schools are grandes écoles, all the more so as you have some rubbish too among your engineering grandes écoles.
To say "grandes écoles" in order to refer to business schools is not a whim, that is an official designation. We would recognise easily the engineer in your words.
Hello Sushi Pepperoni! Please bear in mind that even for engineering schools, it's not free for international students and I'm talking for Polytechnique here for instance! :)
TheMagicMadeline Actually, à vast majority of international students at Polytechnique have scholarships and don't pay their study, they also get paid every month by student associations: almost all students take money off their salary to give them one
Hi from India! I'm applying for business scholls in France for Masters in Management this year. Your content has helped me understand the French education system from within and in depth. Thank you!
Hi Singh, if you are in France for your MIM can I connect with you via email to discuss a few? I am also working to start the MIM and would love insight on a few things. Thank you!
You both nailed this tricky topic. Well done ! I was born in Paris and obtained my bachelor degree at La Sorbonne. Now, I am doing a master's degree in Brussels and I've noticed that in Belgium it's other way around : Business schools are looked down upon whereas Universities are worshipped. So when you graduate from university, it's very easy to get jobs in the top 5 companies even when you don't have much practical job experience. Theoretical knowledge is highly valued in Belgium (as it should in my opinion).
Hi Ron, myself Sunil from india thank for giving such good information..and i wanna do my master's in france so can you give me your valuable suggestion? actually in my bachelor's i have 58% so is there a scope for me to get into public universities? thank you Ron
Ron hi, I plan on going to Sorbonne Université next year, would you recommend it?
Also some things you can only learn in university are for instance medicine or law. 😊
You can get good jobs out of universities diploma but you will have to prove yourself more, especially in the business world, because Grandes ecoles have this selective image in recruiters minds. If you survived prepa and made it into the top schools, it shows you can work hard and are competitive.
Sometimes people forget that you have to be really competitive to make it to MA or PhD at university.
La medecine c'est encore à part avec le système de numerus clausus. C'est mes études et je ne regrette pour rien au monde de ne pas avoir fais de math sup/math spe. 👌 c'était pas ma came.
Santiago Trestini
Effectivement les métiers de la santé (médecine, pharmacie, dentiste...) et du droit (avocat, notaire, juge...) ne peuvent se faire qu’à l’université publique.
Les grandes écoles concernent plutôt les ingénieurs, les politiciens, les journalistes, le commerce, le marketing, le management....
@@Pierric556 Et la psychologie? Désole, je ne ecris pas bien en francais, mais je comprends. Merci
@@mariagutierrez4293 à l'université :)
@Maria Gutierrez ça fait partie du domaine de la santé ! Donc université.
Hey. Still love your videos.
Just for a bit of context, I taught at a grande école without coming from one. (one of the 3 big in Paris area)
What I can say now is that the real difference between University and grande école is the passage through classes prepa.
This passage can be really hard and even destructive for those who fail, but it teaches one thing that isn't taught elsewhere... It teaches you to work and to learn... And that's why they are so appreciated by managers, even with their flaws (formating people and over pride that can come with it)
Many countries have, or used to have, a stage in their education system where young people spend a year or more on the intensive study of standard textbooks so that they have everything at their fingertips and are able to answer trick questions with ease.
For India, China and Japan that may be the entrance examination to some lucrative field like engineering or law. Oxford and Cambridge used to have entry exams which required English schoolboys to spend an extra (third) year in the sixth form at school to take Scholarship or "S" Level papers, but they stopped doing that over 50 years ago.
The Mandarin exams in China were like that for nearly 2000 years: young men studied to write "eight legged essays" on anything at all liberally sprinkled with word-perfect quotations from the Confucian classics. Many societies used to send clever boys (and some girls) away to spend a few years memorising their holy scriptures.
That may have been "rigorous," but it was also self-defeating for society at large. Clever boys (now girls too) spend the most creative years of their lives, at least for a subject like mathematics, on repetitive drudgery. It kept them out of trouble, and at the end they were safe to count rich people's money for them, and they were not going to come up with new ideas.
However, the societies which did that, including India, China and the Arab world, became ultra-conservative and fell behind in technology. Their elites continued to fight each other, but there was no risk of the ordinary people rising up and beheading their kings, as happened in England, France and even Russia. But those societies were all overthrown and colonised by those unstable countries which did not lock down their clever young people and stifle change.
Thank you Rosie for this video! greetings from El Salvador 🇸🇻
I am planning on studying abroad and I’ve been looking for information about public universities in Paris. This video was super useful to me because I didn’t really know the difference between a Grand École diploma and a University diploma.
Keep the great work! and thank you for being a great help for those who are planning to start a new life in France 😊💕
If you don't plan to work in France or in a French firm, it doesn't matter, because the Grandes Ecoles system is pretty much completely unknown by the rest of the world (the diploma would just be equivalent to a master). But I would say that the student life is usually more developed, so you should go for it.
actually Yes, I would like to work in France 🤔
I’m planning on studying a DU Diplôme Universitaire d’études français first, and then get another degree and work 🤔
Would that be too complicated?
If you want to do all your studies in France, you would have to do that in oder to get good enough in french, and then go to the university (by the way there are always possibilities to get a Grande Ecole through university with high enough grades).
If you want to go in a Grande Ecole : there are international students who do preparatory classes, but most of them come from a "Lycée français" (if you don't know about them : they are basically french highschools in other countries) and have a very good level in french. I don't know if you can do that after your DU. The other option is to start your studies in a university in your country (or any country) which has a partnership with a french school, and get good enough grades to do a double degree ^^
Which field will you study?
Awesome! thanks! I have B2 level in French and yes, I would like to do all my studies there. 🤞🏽😊🤞🏽
Flash I want to study languages
Really good info❤️
There are also public Grandes Ecoles in France with low admission fees (higher than universities though) but definetly less than 3 thousands euros for the public schools. Of course there are private schools with super high prices like Epitech which is about 5000 euros a year. But if you take like INSA which is a public engineering school it is "only" 600 euros a year for example.
This being said, I'd like to thank you Rosie because I think your videos are just awesome, full of happiness and it definetly warms my heart to watch your super great videos ! (not sure of this last sentence's grammar though...)
I would have said there are 3 main options after high school but it was 20 years ago. Time flies. So it may have changed since then.
1) Fac
2) Classes préparatoires
3) IUT / BTS for "a priori" shorter studies.
It was also possible to enter directlly to some grande ecole (with integrated preparations) but choices were far more limited and some were private (and expensive).
After listening, I guess Adeline chose the first option. It would have been nice to know a little bit more about her studies and schooling choices at the beginning of the video. By the way her english is very good, did she go abroad to study it?
I'm currently on exchange at HEC (I'm from Sydney, Australia) and this video has really helped me understand the whole tertiary education system in France! And also explains why so many of the HEC students are rather stuck up...lol
I know that I'm two years late, but what does "stuck up" mean ? I'm French :)
@@mislenemislene8588 It means they're snob
Side note : Many of these Grandes Ecoles (especially the best ones) are actually public (Sciences Po, Saint Cyr, some business schools, ENA, Polytechniques...)
We have a similar stigma here in California between the UC and CSU systems. Where CSUs from the same cities or near UCs are seen as less prestigious. Needless to say, there’s definitely a stigma, at least in the job market, towards those who attended CSUs over those who attended UCs.
I don’t know how it really is in Grandes Écoles but I know I tried university (in languages : English-Japanese), and it’s definitely not for everyone either. You are not at all helped by the teachers, you have to be really serious and work by yourself. You could be happy to have so much free time but it’s really dangerous because this free time, if not used to study, is going to bring you down. You need so much focus.
But after I left this part of university, I went to an other part of university. It’s still a public course and it’s called IUT (Stands for « technological institue of university »).
In IUT there is maybe a bit more of a selection than in "general" university. Or at least there was one where I asked to go. It’s mainly a selection regarding your high school level, and your application (in the field I went in - graphic design and multimedia - we had to send some of our work)
As for the lessons, an IUT is way more guided than university. It almost looks like high school. I had class 5 days a week, from 8:30am to 17:30pm (1h lunch break).
We really built a relationship with our teachers and they followed us for 2 years.
There was a lot of technical work, but also really abstract notions. With a good balance between the two.
Two internships were to be done, one for each year. Not really long ones though.
I personally really loved IUT, it’s a perfect mix between uni life and high school spirit (because we are followed by a pedagogical team)
After that I went in Uni once again, but for an other type of Licence that is called Licence professionnelle (professional licence). It’s a one year diploma you can enter after a two year diploma. And most of the time, if it’s not all of it, you do it in « alternance », which means you have kind of a one year long internship in one company, and you are half the time at school, and the other half at work. The company may for the year of studies (not that much compared to private schools alternance, that are way more expensive)
You earn money, and you earn experience. It an other great way to study, because your professional experience has value for companies that you will apply for (if you are not hired at the one you did your alternance ;D)
Hi Rosie, thank you for that video trying to explain our very complex Education system. Being abroad myself I struggle a lot to explain how it works and my diploma. I'm impressed with the take that you have on that topic, you definitely nailed some parts of it !!
But I have to agree with many other comments here. I regret that the video and your guest was too one-sided. The definition of Grandes Ecoles is very different between Business schools and Engineering schools. Engineering schools are mostly public schools that are not more expensive than Uni but are way more recognized than Uni. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I personally did a "prépa" and although it IS a lot of work and can seem to be like "just learn that and fit into the mold" it also pushed me and gave me such a strong basis of knowledge at a time when I wasn't ready to be self-directed and also when I had no idea what I wanted to do !
There's definitely a big social bias in the population in the Grandes Ecoles, but from my experience Grandes Ecoles are actually trying to break that silo because they know it's beneficial for everyone to have a bigger diversity of backgrounds and people : they're opening their doors to more and more Uni or IUT students, and have more and more partnerships with Uni so that students can finish their Master at Uni if they want to specialize in something the Ecoles cannot give them (yes it works also in the other way around !)
I think my Grande Ecole taught me to question a lot of things I was seeing and learning and I had many very lively debates with friends after some classes. It's not just about parties and being all the same ;) Universities in France are unfortunately not very close to the private sector contrary to other countries, so it's true that Grandes Ecoles will definitely bring that to the table.
Wow look at the size of that comment! If you make it to here I hope this has helped shade another light on the Grandes Ecoles (other than (stupid) managers who only want top 5 Business school graduates...)
Hello Rosie :)
I'm French and actually I think your friend is too one-sided when she speaks about Grandes Ecoles. I'm in ENS Lyon, philosophy department, I worked during 3 years in classes préparatoires and I think you'll be surprise to hear that most of my friends (that I met when I was in prépa) have very VERY good memories about prépa. We even go back from time to time because we miss our teachers ! So yes It's pretty difficult to study for a Grande Ecole but, in.my experience it worth it.
Jane am going to study in ENS Lyon, I did not know that for the french citizens you had to go to the prépa :O
@@janetsuarez2548 prépa are the best way to prepare ENS’s competitive exams. Actually 99% of the ENS French students come from CPGE (prépa). CPGE are made for these schools :)
@@janecluzeau9525 And do you know how is the selection for international students then? Looks like is easier for us to get in ... I would love to keep contact with you, are you still working in the ENS Lyon?
@@janetsuarez2548 I don’t think there is a selection for international students like it was for us. Sadly I graduated, I’m a PHD student now however you can have a tutor with the ASSET : an association created in order to take care of international students coming at the ENS Lyon :) they are very kind ! Try to reach them through their website.
Actually I've tried both systems. I did 4 years at university and 2 in a Grande école for a master degree... And I choosed to do so because I felt I couldn't go to a big company while being in a university. I'm not from Ile-de-france so the number of big companies is quite low in province and it's even more difficult to get in if you're from university, even for an internship. Your teachers never stop to say that you will never make it etc so you start to loose confidence about yourself and start to believe that the only way to get a better job, big company and a higher salary is to go to a grande école. However... I prefer the mindset of people from university and the solidarity from it. There is a lot more diversity as well and I regret a bit that time. But I hope that choice will definitly help me in the future.
Wow wow most engineering grandes ecoles are public.
In the preparatory classes you get a vast theorical background (at least in science where I am from), but the true purpose of that is to get to a high enough level to be able to rank everyone from geniuses to the drop outs. It doesn't really matter what you studied in the school, because the firms know you were smart enough to get in, and that's enough for them.
By the way there are a lot more options than universities and Grandes Ecoles ^^
Flash such as what?
You also have BTSs and DUTs, 2-year courses where you learn a job and you can work immediately afterwards without studying for 5 years.
The typical patronizing engineer. It's not because you were accepted in an engineering school that you are smart, with enough training, even a monkey could be accepted. This superiority that engineering schools are selling to students is just bullshit. If French engineers were so smart, every developed country would have adopted this system, and it's not the case at all. Engineers are just qualified technicians. If French engineers were so good, France would be a leader in industry with innovative products and inventions. These schools made sense in Napoléon time, but now there are just one of the symptoms that make France going down in innovation because of consanguinity. All these pseudo elites (politicians, entrepreneurs...) come from the same school system and are making things worse year after year. They hire only people with the same pedigree without giving a chance to the others. If you take for example the car industry, French brands are just followers, nobody who has enough money wants a French car, they prefer more reliable cars with a better technology and comfort than Renault or Peugeot. I don't tell engineers are bad, they do their job, but nothing more, they won't try to make it better than what was asked. They are just brave little soldiers that will execute their boss's orders. And even though many Grandes écoles are public, I can tell expenses are not the same, one of my cousins had to get a student loan to be able to go to one of these engineering schools and prépas are rarely free. Me, I had to go to the university because I wanted to be a doctor and I didn't want to ask my parents to pay for this and in my cursus, I met many engineer students, and I could see that there was not a big mixity, they were mostly from well-to-do families (doctors, professors, engineers...). This is unfortunately how France works like, a caste of privileged people trying to keep their advantages as much as they can, and there is a real glass ceiling between them and the plebs. Even if you're very intelligent but born in the wrong family, it will be very difficult for you to go to the same schools, get internships in presitgious companies or a good job position, meanwhile the ones who are part of this world will only have to ask "Papa" to give a few calls or meet the president of the school who will share his address book.
tldr, I just said that was the reasonning behind the french system, no judgement.
If money is a problem then you are boursier and the prepatory classes are free. And if you have to pay the same amount of money if you go to University.
the system is made to give everyone the same chances, regardless to where they come from. In some schools (ENS for example), they even give you a colarchip if you get in.
I believe that the main problem is orientation. People who comes from a "good family" will be pushed more toward a classe preparatoire.
For the particularly low grades in prepa: I don't know how it is for literary or economical prepa but scientific ones actually give you your real grade. Most tests are made so that they can't be finished in the time given (around 4 hours most times). So if you managed to get 20% of the test right, you get a 4 out of 20. Some prepa reajust your grade so the best gets a 20 and the rest of the class goes from there but if the head of the class is too far ahead then he might even get 21 or more out 20 with the adjusted grade. Grade readjustment are getting more and more common to avoid student depressions and suicides that tend to happen in prepa.
Well i am french and there is actually a third option at the end of high school : professionnal diplomas : DUT, BTS... where you actually learn a job in 2 years. They can be in private schools or in public institutions. And after that you can join university with an equivalence if you want to continue. That’s what i did! So i have both very practical knowledge and very theoretical one that complement each other!
I think this video is on point on most aspects of the subject, but I think it scratches the surface regarding the selection process, and the "symbolism" between the two.
It's been observed and theorized by a few people, that this education system effectively perpetuates social classes from one generation to the next.
Put more simply, people entering a Grande École, and then passing, are statistically mainly bourgeois. The "elites", as some like to call their students ; and people going to university… are statistically mainly middle class or poor. There are very little exceptions to that.
One reason for that is the cost of some of those schools : if you can't pay, you can't go, which is a direct selection on income/resources : those are incidentally full of rich people, most of them bourgeois. Since some of them are public, the other criteria is the effective selection. Most require, like you said, a prépa, and the prépa being very hard and intense, it itself discourage a lot of people, a lot of people fail trying to get through it, and those who don't get discouraged or who don't fail still have to pass the selection. Like you also said, not everyone passes, places are limited. Obviously the best are selected, less obviously, the best are often the ones whom the parents have more money/time to spend on, so their education/instruction is good.
I cannot seem to find the specific extract so it's shorter, but a guy named Franck Lepage describes this phenomenon in his conference "Incultures 2 - Comprendre le dysfonctionnement de l'Éducation Nationale" that you can find on RUclips. It is a long watch, and I'm sorry for that, but it's very enlightening, the whole conference is.
Every time I have to describe what universities in France are, in terms of selection, I use the Funnel metaphor. Opened-doors at the start, everyone (almost everyone) can get in, and then the real selection starts. First years are very numerous, usually around 350/400 students, and maybe less than half of them will graduate. And then, further studies (Masters, Doctorate) are even less used. A group of 20 students in Master is a big group. Truly, French Public Universities use a Funnel system.
Waouh Madeline je suis jalouse de ton niveau d' anglais!! bravo à toi :)
Super vidéo ! but be careful: with the Vidal Law, many universities might select their students in the future, so universities will change a lot in the next years, as well as the High School final exam. Sinon c'est super d'avoir une kiwi qui explique bien les spécificités françaises sans forcément que nous mêmes nous nous en rendions compte ! Bravo
However when it comes to Law degree universities are prefered. If you have a Law degree from Sorbonne or Asass you are pretty much settled.
The thing you girls had not mentionned is that sometimes there is no " Grande Ecoles " to do what we want. For exemple, there is no " Grande Ecoles " and Private school to study law. It means, that if you want to be judge, want to be lawyer, or even work in politics, being president or whatever YOU MUST go to Public University for 5 years, and then there is the selection to " Ecole nationale de la Magistrature " for exemple.
And the main part of the medicine schools are universities !
En fait, dans les grandes écoles, tu es formée au monde du travail, à son fonctionnement, à ses spécificités en fonction de ton domaine, on t’entraîne à avoir la bonne attitude, à construire ton réseau et on te pousse pour que tu obtiennes les résultats et l'attitude attendu (tu apprends les codes du monde du travail, pas seulement les bases mais tous les codes qui vont faire de toi un bon candidat même si tu n'as qu'une vingtaine d'années) alors qu'à l'université, on te délivre le savoir académique nécessaire et démerde toi^^ On ne te pousse pas, on ne t’entraîne pas, tu dois te faire tout seul, ingurgiter du savoir et compter sur tes capacités d'analyse, de réflexion, de rédaction (tout ça on considère que tu l'as appris au lycée, d'où l'importance d'aller dans un bon lycée / d'ailleurs on dit toujours que ceux qui ont besoin d'être un peu poussé, suivi, fliqué n'y arriveront pas à l'université, et on leur conseille d'aller dans des filières plus techniques comme les diplôme bac +2 type DUT, BTS etc) ou de passer par une classe préparatoire si ils veulent aller vers un domaine un peu pointue et qu'ils ont suivi le lycée en mode croisière pour apprendre à bosser^^) et tu créés ton futur réseau par tes amitiés, pas par intérêt et généralement, ça nous amène à avoir un réseau beaucoup plus "amicale" et varié.
C'est ca: d'un coté, on te dit quoi etudier chaque semaine et on t'entraine à réussir l'examen alors que dans l'autre, on te file les cours, et on te dit "l'examen est en janvier, bye, so long and thx for all the fish"
Great topic! As a "Grandes écoles" student, I do believe that as you said the "classes prépa" system has pros and cons, but more importantly, the choice between prepa and university should depend on the ability to push back one's limits, and handle stress. I was a bit cringing when you mentionned the creativity for universty students as in opposition to "grandes écoles" students xD, but generally all that was said remains very true, overall. As for me, I do not regret my choice, even if you get tired of constantly working during prepa, you get pretty much well rewarded for your immense hard work and it seems quite fair to me, not to mention the pride you can feel after the two years (3 for some). Thank you so much for your videos and keep up the great work :D !
Hello ! As a french student who is now in an engineering school and who has made prépa, i have to say that pretty much of what you're saying is true except for the competetive mindset. At least with my experience i think that the mindset has changed especially for the scientific prépa because there is enought places in engineering schools for everyone. The competitive mindset wasn't a big deal for me and everybody were helping each other to go through this tough time !
To be exactly precise, I think this video emphasises on Business "Grandes Ecoles", and if that was the title, I guess, from what I've heard I would agree. Yet I disagree with most of the things you say if we think of the engineering "Grandes Ecoles":
*First of all they're public (even though there is the same hard selection after two years of "Classes préparatoires") and as such, you pay the same fee as the "free" universities
*In terms of diversity, In my case it really does not apply to my school I think, as a third of our engineering students (not talking about those in masters) come from other universities, in exchange for a double degree, which allow to meet formidable people coming from everywhere around the globe, and of course widen your perspectives and who you are.
*It is true that these schools value work experiences, but that is also the case of firms, which not only look at the degree but also to the Resume, and experiences/ exchanges in other countries, and also the different carreers we choosed. Those things are determined by our grades and so technically, not only the degree matters, our grades do too.
*Finally, once again, I base my points over my own school, but the majors "Groupes de Grandes Ecoles d'Ingénieur" are seen as generalist school and not specialized : Our system is based on a solid common knowledge, which we complete with a year disciplinary option. In the end our title is "Ingénieur généraliste".
*Even though in science some things most things are not "criticizable" such as physic laws, what is questionable is how you approach what you learn in the real life. In that sense, I believe that we question ourselves about our knowledge more often than people in universities (I might be completly wrong I reckon) because we have to adapt to the working world and industry
However I completly agree on the fact that there is stronger bonds between "Grandes Ecoles" and firms than with public universities, as the label matters on a CV. Yet I still believe that both formations are differents, they have their pros and cons but in the end there IS a real difference.
Anyway, you did an amazing job for this video and the others, I discovered you today and I think you are making great content. I learned a lot about my own country watching you and that is refreshing. I am really happy that you enjoy France. Keep going with your videos, you're rockin' it !
Je pense qu’il faudrait faire une deuxième vidéo avec une personne qui a fait ou qui est en train de faire une grande école pour avoir l’avis des deux côtés. Mais sinon j’adore tes vidéos, ça me permet de m’améliorer en anglais 👍
J'ai fais les deux université puis grande école... Ce qu'elle dit est juste
There’s one thing you forgot to mention:
It’s hard to get into a prépa... you also have a selection process...
The best schools in engneering like polytechnique, mines, centrale are public and free (student are also paid in polytechnique.). So the best students can get into these grandes écoles, even if they are very poor. They only need to be talentous and hardworkers. From this point of view, the french education system for engineer is probably the most fair compare to many countries !
It's kind of naive. You must have a favourable background (family, social environment) to be competitive to enter in those schools. If you've done your High School in Seine Saint-Denis, it will definitely be far more difficult than someone (has hard-worker and smart as you) who have been in Versailles's Hoche.
It was so interesting to learn about the French education system, in some ways it's quite similar to the education system here in Germany. Both of you girls are so effortlessly gorgeous! You could totally pass as a French girl Rosie.
Antoinette Emily I think the biggest similarity is that they have the lycee with is equivalent to the German gymnasium (highest level of high school). However when it comes to public vs private in Germany, public schools and universities often have a much better reputation than the private ones.
So pleased you've found Rosies channel Danica! Yes the gymnasium and the lycee is what made me think about the similarities but there are also many differences.
Antoinette Emily definitely great content over here too 😊
and she has a pretty cool accent too😜
Antoinette Emily 👍
Btw you should definitely join us over there on Twitter, it's a great place for us RUclipsrs to hang out 😉
As one having managerial responsibilities in a company I may bring some complementary elements :
- once people are past the 5 year experience point, uni vs. Grande école is a lot less important than experience, knowledge, personality and an ability to Bring added value to the company and your project.
- grande école usually provide a better organized and stronger alumni network. Especially useful for a first job, career change, and breaking a glass ceiling
- it's ( sadly) easier to hire someone from a grand école : their area of expertise is easier to pinpoint and you know what you can expect. Universities suffer from their very, very, wide range of curriculum and the difficulty for a company to understand how they will translate into the business world. This is a shame since those people may bring an interesting point of view, but recruiting cost lots of time and money, and a company need some true commitment if it wish to seek interesting outliers
- it all depend heavily on the company weight of history and the prevalence of people coming from one or the other option : birds of a same feather
- the two system train people in a different way. If it's not always very visible, it sometime result in a very different take on issues. Good thing, but sometime difficult to mix
I hope this may help you, go on with the good work , and thank you for your ever so enjoyable videos.
Ps: above remarks are fields and job dependent. As vastly pointed out in the comments their is no grande école for every field and job. Therefore the point is sometime mott
Again, I think it's really different between Paris and the province. Many "Grandes Ecoles" are located in Paris. Cac40 companies surely prefer to hire people who studied in these top schools, but they are also based in ... Paris. In the province, you'll often find only public universities, and middle-size companies (meaning most companies in the country) would be more eager to hire people who studied in what we call "BTS" or "IUT" (in high schools, after graduation), which are short studies (about two to three years), where you can learn more practical knowledge which allow you to be available quickly on the job market. But I do agree that people who study at university are more willing to work in research or in public companies. I personally studied in a public university for a total of 3 years (2 years english and 1 year economics) without any diploma in the end, due to a lack of motivation. And even without any university diploma, or any "Grandes Ecoles" mentioned on my CV, I managed to get a job, and then another
Belle vidéo mais je dois faire quelques précisions sur les grandes écoles
D'abord pour les écoles d'ingénieur elles sont majoritairement public et presque gratuite, surtout les meilleurs
Et aussi une fois en école il ne suffit pas de laisser passer l'année jusqu'au diplôme, les sujets sont très complexe mais c'est juste que le rythme de travail parait dérisoire comparé à la Prépa mais reste quand même plus élevé qu'à la fac
Alexandre Hey je suis pas vraiment d'accord. Le rythme en grandes écoles est beaucoup moins soutenu qu'à la fac (en tout cas les 3 dernières années de fac)
zonz zonz je suis plutot d'acord avec Alexandre. Je ne sais pas de quelles 3 dernière s années tu parles (L3 et Master ?) Mais les deux dernières années d'ecole d'ingé ne sont pas données non plus. En général il est vrai que la 1 ere année a la réputation d'etre plus tranquille dans beaucoup d'école (après c'est aussi en partie parce qu'on sort de 2 ou 3 ans de prépa donc ^^)
Alexandre Hey effectivement je voudrais insister sur le fait que toutes les grandes écoles d'ingénieur sont publiques (X, CentraleSupelec, Mines, Ponts, Supaero, Telecom, Ensta, ENS). Les plus prestigieuses PAYENT leurs etudiants : X et ENS ! Pour les autres, les frais de scolarité sont en général assez peu élevés
Pour le rythme de travail, difficile de comparer fac et écoles d'ingé, dans la mesure où les variations sont grandes d'une fac à l'autre et d'une école à l'autre.
Là où on travaille le plus, c'est clair que c'est les prépas et la paces (première année de médecine). Mais aussi par exemple ma petite sœur qui est en L2, double license droit-éco à Assas, c'est le même niveau de taf, si ce n'est plus...
Ensuite le travail demandé varie beaucoup d'une école d'ingé à l'autre. Celle qui est réputée pour être une vraie école de branleur c'est Centrale Paris. Mais celle où je suis, les Ponts, est très sérieuse, et demande de vraiment taffer, clairement plus que dans une fac classique. Ce qui n'empêche pas d'avoir une vie de promo intense, et ça c'est une grosse différence avec la fac. Tjrs des événements, mais c'est en vase clos (les écoles d'ingé sont d'ailleurs souvent loin de tout). Du coup ça crée des promos extrêmement soudée mais fermées sur elles-mêmes, et cet esprit de corps persiste dans le monde professionnel comme rosy le dit dans la vidéo.
Ensuite t'as les écoles de commerce. Là, après tes 2/3 ans noyé sous le taf en prépa, tu peux te toucher la nouille toute la journée, un truc de malade. C'est très différent des écoles d'ingé car en école d'ingé on continue principalement à intégrer des connaissances, des méthodes, alors qu'en école de commerce on découvre et appréhende le monde de l'entreprise.
Alors dans mon commentaire je parle juste du fait que en général on bosse beaucoup et que c'est pas la touchette comme elles le disent dans la vidéo
Mais on ne peut pas vraiment comparer à la fac entière puisque même dans la fac il y a de très grosses différences entre les filière (double cursus/ médecine etc)
Mais de manière général ceux qui réussissent à rejoindre des écoles depuis la fac trouvent qu'il y a une augmentation du travail donc l'impression de fête permanente des écoles viens qu'elles sont remplis de gens qui ont fait deux ans de Prépa (3 pour les vrais) et qui sont beaucoup efficaces dans le travail donc qui trouvent ça plus facile
Rose you are a trickster because you are superb in English !
"les grandes écoles de commerce(business)" are private but "les grandes écoles d'ingénieur(engineer)" are public but sometimes private like the university sometimes they can be private
and there are also the BTS and DUT it's next to the university and grandes écoles
My daughter and I think your hair is so pretty in this video.
I got admission in INSEEC BUSINESS SCHOOL (chambery campus) in bba (luxury management), is it worth to study in this business school , and get work visa after your bachelors (please reply back, I will be so thankfull)
Wowowow be very careful ! Most grandes écoles are public, it’s mostly the grandes ecoles de commerce that are private, but most engineering grandes ecoles are absolutely publiques, and also schools like ENS.
I feel triggered since this is one of the last French prides we can have, the fact that you can study in a very prestigious grande école and that it is publique, so very low scholar payments (Polytechnique, Arts et Métiers, ENS, Centrale, les Mines, les Ponts etc...)
It’s decreasing year after year, but you can still succeed if you don’t have money from the beginning.
Hello dear, you are totally right, I tried to simplify it so I said the "equivalent" for a foreign audience. Please also bear in mind that this is not true for international students, they have to pay a lot to go to French Grandes Ecoles and I'm talking about polytechnique for instance! Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought i was only talking to students abroad! :)
TheMagicMadeline Hey ! No problem, and I have to admit I didn’t know foreign students had to pay a lot to go to grandes ecoles, even the public ones, so thanks for the good information ! :)
Actually no, it's the same conditions as for the French (~600 euros a year in public engineering schools).
International students can also get a scholarship to pay their rent and food.
As for Polytechnique it's also free even for international students unless you do the "Bachelor".
Let's not mention all the extremely costly and necessary private prépa then...
If you don't have money, you better have an excellent, way-above-average work and intellectual capacities, far superior to your peers, all acquired autonomously, otherwise the Grandes Écoles are not accessible at all. Just because something is "public" and *in theory* can be accessed by anyone doesn't mean it's actually accessible to anyone.
But as usual and expected from that milieu, it's all fine and dandy on the outside - very curated appearances - while on the outside we're still rolling with the centuries-old social reproduction.
Ever wondered why, despite boasting about such excellent education provided by these Écoles, we're still lagging behind in all international rankings? Because it's a 'traditionally' close-minded system, that is struggling to reform and modernize, so we end recruiting in a much smaller pool of people, putting some average people on pedestal because their family had the money to get them in through countless private tutoring and prépa.
Sure that old system produces _some_ brilliant minds, but it also serves a social reproduction tool, producing not-so-great people but from the 'right' milieu, instead of lifting up all the potential from the less fortunate social classes. They have painfully added a couple of seats for the few very gifted students who don't have the money for the prépa, but it's still anecdotal wishful thinking ("affirmative action"): if you're from the city projects or a prolo, you have a much smaller chance at getting in these Grandes Écoles, regardless of your capacities and potential.
Hey how good is Arts et metiers for international students in terms industrial reputation?
Hi can you plesse tell me best options to do masters in managment or marketing..1 year coursue for jan/ feb
I studied in neither of these systems. I did a BTS. It's shorter studies (2 years) in a specific area. (mine was in tourism)
I finished studying for too long now so I don't think I know enough to tell you about , but I'm sure you can find plenty information about it on the internet.
BTSs and DUTs are two-year technical degrees that you can do directly after high school. You learn skills specific to a work area and you can enter the workforce just after.
(Or you can go on to study; after a BTS or DUT you can get a master's degree in 3 years, but not in a too theoretical field).
For scientist and literary "Grandes Ecoles" it's actually free for most of the time! We have to pay only in economic "Grandes Ecoles". And there isn't competition between students in prépas (except for 2 or 3), I mean, time changed!
In fact, « grandes écoles » are more about learning a job. For example, if you want to become a judge, you’ll have to learn law through university. Once you got your Master 1 or Master 2 degree (4 or 5 years in uni), you’ll then have to do a prépa in order to pass the exam for the Judges school. Same with attorneys. In fact, the difference between grandes écoles and universities (public and private universities are the same, private unis are just some more expensive catholic unis) is the selection (CV for unis or competition for grandes écoles), and by what you can learn and how you can learn it. As I said earlier, except maybe for doctors and therapists, grandes écoles exist in order to teach you a job, or at least the basis of this job, what is this job made of.
There are grandes écoles that you take after uni, because you’ll need some knowledge you never had before. You need to go to uni to learn law before entering the entrance contest for judge and attorney grandes écoles because you never learn law before uni, so you need to know it.
On the opposite, you already have the basis of mathematics and science after high school, so you only need two years of preparation.
For other grandes écoles, like music ones (yes they exist, the Conservatoires Nationaux de Musique et de Danse or CNSMD), you’ll need to be trained from young age in order to enter the contest or even the prépa, because the educational system doesn’t interfere with that field.
So, uni is more about research, theory, and grandes écoles are more about practicing. That’s why you don’t have law grandes écoles, but you don’t have judge universities. I mean, you never heard of a [insert a job] university, right? And you never heard of a [insert a random subject] grande école ? It’s always an ingeneer, attorney, judge, dancer, musician grande école, and always psychology, law, medicine, history, literature university.
Great video, but it's not exactly true. There is 3 chooses after the bac:
- universities
- prepa and Grandes Écoles
- BTS and DUT, that are short studies (2 years) and are more technicals (expecially the BTS).
I'm actually in a DUT (in graphism/webdesign/informatic/audio-visual) , so I'm a bit desapointed that you forgot to mention it. Many students go in one of these two. Maybe it's because for people who did a university or a Grande École, it doesn't have a good image, but, after a DUT, we can be accept in a a 3rd year of university (what I want to do) or in a engeneree school without suffer in a prepa if we have good results.
PS: I hope you will understand my English, it's not very good.
Mia Little Fox Thank you for your comment. I went to a 2 year technical college, which is called a “community college” here in the USA. I never finished, but would like to go back to school in France. I have been searching the internet to find out what a “community college” is called in French.
What do BTS and DUT stand for?
@@big3missuie212 BTS stand for superior technician certificate, and DUT for technical university diploma. Even if those 2 are the same degree, we can say that a DUT is better because you can keep going studies more easily after getting your diploma (and most of people do it) while BTS is more turn to bring you directly to work.
@@m.b-bourillon6327 Thank you for the very helpful explanation!
How good is Arts et Metiers for Master's in Aerospace Engineering for international students???
You forgot to mention than in some fields such as law or medicine, there are no Grandes Ecoles, and the University formation is prestigious just as much as Engineering or Business Grandes Ecoles for example.
I'm glad I came across this video. I am currently looking at doing my master's degree in France. I have been very confused about the system. I already got rejected at Universite de Lille. Now I'm skeptical about applying to another university. Please anyone with any relevant information, please share. I am from Nigeria, I hold a bachelor's degree in International Relations from Universite d'Abomey Calavi in the Benin Republic.
Cute and informative clip. (The background and/or underlying "bouncy" soundtrack needs to be toned down. It almost overrides the vocals.) I feel that the internet has busted wide open the monopoly on advanced information/knowledge that was once hoarded/guarded by universities in years gone by. I wonder how the French look at foreign degrees and diplomas!
Il y a aussi des systèmes intermédiaires, comme les ENS, qui comme les grandes écoles sont sélectives dès l’entrée (prepa généralement) mais sont publiques et appartiennent au système universitaire (UE en commun avec d’autres formations d’une université affiliée, etc).
Généralement, les grandes écoles sont sélectives à l’entrée (concours, ...). Alors que les universités sont sélectives à la fin : masters plus sélectifs que licences, poursuite en thèse, ...
Most of the "prépas" are public... so they are free (not really beacause "prépas" ask you register at the University in the case of you leave the cursus... but the cost of the University is about 130€ ~ 115£ ~ 150$)... and if you look the top 10 "prepas", 8 are public.
Then, there is the "Grandes Écoles"
-> Grandes Écoles d'Ingénieur wich deliver the diploma of ingenier (the best are publics too : Polytechnique, Mines, Ponts, Normal Sup, INSA, etc.)
-> Écoles de Commerce (Buissness' school) the majority are private and expansive (HEC, ESSEC, etc.)
Do tell me about ESIGELEC is it a good school for masters in engineering and its ‘’Grandè École’’
Il ne faut pas oublier de préciser que les domaines présents en grande école ne sont pas autant larges que les choix de filière à l'université. Par exemple je suis étudiante en philosophie, et c'est une discipline très universitaire. Il n'existe pas de grande école spécialisé en philosophie, il existe peut être des cursus où il y a cette discipline mais ce ne sera pas la seule comme la fac où j'en fais toute la journée...
Ahah I got 0.5 and 2, and only studied and slept all day long (in prépa) but I didn't feel it was hell, it was pretty fun (and so, really, I meant it, interesting)
I think the main difference between uni and grandes écoles it's the way you manage your work/study, but both are great and none is better than the other one x)
Besides that's true for the great grandes écoles the "de la maison" thing and sometimes pretty same kind of population, but for small grandes écoles, (like mine at least) people come from anywhere (country or academic background) we have Chinese students, students who went through 2-3 years for professional diplomas, etc. and that's pretty cool.
This just made me have more questions. So, University is 3 years, but grandes ecoles are 2 ("pre requisite) + 2 (classes for major) = 4 years?
Also, if you are coming from America, can you take the college entrance exam in English, or does it have to be in French? If you started college already, but just want to transfer to another university in France what do you have to do?
A "grande ecole" is 3 years long, but it brings you to a master degree because you need another diploma before to enter it. You need to do a CPGE (which means "classe preparatoire"/ preparatory class) or a DUT (University technical diploma) and more rarely a BTS (superior technician certificate). All of them are 2 years long. But there is an other way by doing a bachelor (which is 3 years long instead of 2) and you will enter in the secondary year of the "grande ecole". Anyway it takes a minimum of 5 years of studies to get your "grande ecole" diploma. There are a lot of stranger studying in France and I think you can do it as well as long as you are motivated to do some french culture and language learning efforts. I hope this will answer your questions ^^
I think that happens everywhere, here in Mexico, most companies don't want people from public universities for certain jobs, of course there are exceptions, but the most important companies say: we only accept people that come from , also, Grandes Écoles is like the Ivy League colleges in the US, aren't they? There are companies that prefer alumni from those universities and if the person happens to be from the same school than the soon to be boss, the better.There's not much difference, really. IMO anyways lol! Very interesting video though! -xx
Thoughts on going to Paris for Business school? Seems to be not the right choice
I'm french and to me university is amazing
Can i practice as an engineer in france coming from a university or do i have to be from a grande ecole?
Great video ! It is generaly as you describes but i do not totaly agree with everything. It is normal, you can't know every field for instance there are not as much private engineering "grandes écoles". Indeed for scientific scools, the majority and the "best" ones are public. I am doing a scientific "classe préparatoire" and engineering scools and i do not pay anything for it. And as you sait, during "prépa" oe as no time, one can't hang out... It is very hard so, yes in "grandes écoles" one made up for it with a lot of parties to ;) But my friends in university have time hanging out now. I agree with you when you say that in "grandes ecoles" there is more competition. On my mind this competition exist only during prepa because people are fighting for places in scools but hopefully there are exeptions. I have friends in some prepa in paris and the competition is very hard. But the first prepa of my field is not based on competition. And I am in the 5th french prepa and there is no competition. We are as a family, always helping eachothers! Good job! this video is very clear, and the french system is very complicated... Even French does not understand it very well ^^
What is your into song? It’s driving me crazy inquiring minds want to know.
I want to go to University of Nîmes for French geneolgy program. it's only 6 months but those are my passions French language and geneology research.
I want to ask about Ecole Centrale Nantes. Is it private or public institution
Just one thing : most part of engineer schools are public and free not private :)
Après on peut intégrer les grandes écoles après une licence (université) et c'est de plus en plus le cas surtout les très grandes écoles qui sont très difficile à avoir après une prépa.
Et l'avantage de l'université c'est que tu n'as pas besoin d'être le meilleur. J'ai fais prépa pendant 1 and et demi et j'ai du arrêter parce que je ne supportais plus la pression heureusement pour moi l'ingénierie ne fait pas partie de mes souhaits d'avenir, mais pour ce que ça intéresse la prépa est un véritable frein. Ce qui pour moi est un vrai problème.
This is pretty different from the US. The town I grow up in has a good college that is decently priced so most people just go there (at least for their basics) and only try to go to other college if they're very smart or have wealthy parents who will pay for it. The US really pushes us to go to college because we're told well end up homeless if we don't so when stories like my husbands and mine come up people are shocked. I'm 21 and he's 23. I only went to college for a year and he hasn't gone at all. We have 0 doubts, own 2 cars, have a newborn daughter, and are about to buy our first house. We did not have assistance from our parents outside of being given old things
I got accepted in
Inseec U. in Bordeaux
and
IGR.IAE Rennes School of Management (Universite' de Rennes).
Can somebody give me some advice which one is better for a degree in MBA?
Why?
Pros and Cons.
Any info is very much appreciated because there isn't much info online
Thank you! :)
Moi je suis contente j'ai réussis à éviter le manque d’expérience de la Fac et la compétition des grandes écoles (et le coût aussi) ! Parce que oui il n'y pas que ces deux possibilités après tout, j'ai fais un BTS (avec des stages donc) et maintenant je suis en cours dans le centre de formation de la CCI en alternance, il existe beaucoup d'autres écoles et centres de formation qui sont reconnus et ne font pour autant pas partie des Grandes Ecoles !
Si je devais conseiller une seule chose à des futurs étudiants c'est l'alternance ! C'est juste un procédé de formation extrêmement enrichissant et qui te fait rentrer dans la vie active tout en douceur ! Je trouve que toutes les formations devrait reprendre ce modèle.
L'important est que vous soyez satisfaite de votre vie. Tous les parcours peuvent apporter satisfaction et épanouissement.
Quant à l'alternance, c'est une voie trop peu développée en France (car considérée par la classe dirigeante comme une voie d'échec).
Tres interessant bravo, au bout du compte on se débrouille pas vrai ?
actually, almost all engineering "grandes écoles" are state-funded and cost less the 1000€ a year, sometimes only the social security and file fee which are around 250€ if I remember well, I can't speak for business school as I never wanted to go there and didn't get any information about it
in engineering, grandes écoles usually have partnerships with lots of companies while university often have none, the student life is really developed (the whole school is like a family) and there are way more internships (at least 2 sometimes 3 or more) while in university you only sometimes have one, also the teachers are often ex-engineers that know something about the industry while some university teachers have never worked outside the education system, also the teacher/student ratio is higher in "grandes écoles", on the other hand "grandes écoles" do not focus on research methodology like how to present a good bibliography
TLDR: in engineering subject university->research, "grandes écoles"->industry (at masters degree)
I did a prépa and actually doesn't regret having done it at all.
those 2 years (3 for some) are really hard but worth it I think
even the 45h week and the mock exam every Saturday morning, when everyone else is resting, are worth in the end because you get a really good self-discipline and work method and the 30-35h week in "grande école" seems like nothing
the grading system makes lots of sense, I will try to explain how it works in most classes
the test is made to be unfinishable for example graded on 72 points for 6 hours, you only get 4 hours to do it
the best student (in every prepa there is a 170 IQ student or someone so hardworking they kill every test) gets 54 out of 72
then the teacher count that 54 is the best possible so 20/20 (standard grading in France is on 20)
if you only got 35 your grade on 20 is 35*20/54=12.96
they sometimes apply a mathematical operator to the grades to push people away from the class average but not always, they didn't in my school so I can't explain it
Anyone please give review about EPITA college for MS in Data science
Wow, Grand Ecoles “expensive” at 3000€ a year... in the US, a private university is closer to $70,000 per year.
Amy, that is exactly what I was going to comment! "Expensive" certainly is relative! My husband went to la Fac de Pharmacie à Paris, and his mother has always said: ce n'était pas gratuit. We took out a second mortgage to pay for our children to go to private college in the US. Not quite the same... Rosie, I enjoy your videos so much.
And that at universities with lower academic standards.
God bless Europe lol 😂
it's more like 12-17k per year...
@@mux90able So Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, etc. have lower standards? 😂
Which one is better for international students?
thank you for the video! I'm actually moving to Paris next year and I am between ESLSCA vs. IÉSEG, may I know you opinion on both and which one is better to find a job in international companies? FYI: I am going for an international MBA
Hi Yasmin, greetings to you :) Could you please confirm which school you eventually went with? I am looking to join the MIM program at IESEG in August, and would appreciate some insight on a few areas. If okay, please share your email on here or kindly reach out to me on aishat.a.lawal20@gmail.com thank you!
I’m really trying to understand the difference between M1 and M2, why are masters 2 years long in France? :(
I don't get where you get this sense that Grandes Écoles are costly, a lot of them are extremely cheap, funded by the state, and in some you even get paid while you study
I agree, I did pay for my scholarship in a private "grande école" but what I paid didn't even cover 20% (rough estimate) of the cost of my education, because the school and government actually covered 80% of it (fyi I was in engineering)
Grande ecole de commerce are private and expensive... Grande école d'ingénieur are mostly public and cheap
Hey I was wondering where can I get the info of which écoles are cheap, all the ones i found are kinda expensive compared to the prices said in the video
Hello, I have master in English and one year teaching diploma from India and I m live in Paris (Versailles) can u suggest me can I get a teaching job in france plz reply
Grandes Écoles for Commercial, Public Relations, Human Resources and Communications studies are really a separate world from the rest of the education system.
This sector is plagued with a habit of abusing internships. It's not rare for students in that domain to repeat internships for several years before they finally get a real job contract.
As others have mentioned in the comments it's very different with Grandes Écoles for Science studies.
Science Grandes Écoles are public. All the hard work in Classes Préparatoires is about acquiring a critical mindset to analyze a situation and find good solutions efficiently. Then the 3 years inside the Grande École itself are more about refining those skills and specializing in certain areas. Then you have the mandatory internship and usually get your first real job immediately after.
The Classe Préparatoire is very competitive because of the selection but once you're in the Grande École it's much more friendly we help each other a lot and have fun together.
hello ! great video! (you should have just tell us at the end of the video the kiwi educationnal system) I can't compare the 2 systems 😮
I've always wondered why my sisters and mom had dark hair naturally before dying their hair blonde but I had natural blonde hair that later got darker. We have French Canadian ancestry. I notice a lot of French have darker hair.
Umm..... okay 😅?
I'm confused! Is Grandes Ecoles for master or bachelor or both? I'm an international student looking for a master.
Beaucoup de gens qui ont fait des grandes écoles se sentent visiblement offensés dans les commentaires^^
Perso j'ai été en fac d'histoire et mes amis qui étaient en prépa n'arrêtaient pas de me dire à quel point l'enseignement en prépa était plus avancé, alors qu'en fait c'est totalement différent. Madeline l'explique bien dans la vidéo, en prépa puis dans les grandes écoles y a beaucoup de cours, beaucoup de boulot, mais on te dit quoi apprendre, alors qu'à la fac on t'apprend plus la recherche, t'as que 20h de cours par semaine et si tu veux avoir ton semestre faut passer ta vie à la BU pour compléter les cours magistraux qui sont juste une base. C'est comme ça que se fait la sélection.
Hello, Can someone study their first degree at University and do a Masters at Grandes Ecoles? Are courses in Grandes Ecoles only in French?
Many Thanks!
It's possible. You can take MBA / Master degree in a "Grandes Ecoles" without having been a former student.
Are there higher education programs taught in English? Or just in French?