What's good y'all! Just as a quick reminder, this is ENTIRELY my opinion! If you disagree, that's all good and I completely respect that! I just ask that you would respect the opinions of others even if you disagree with them! With all that being said, have a blessed day y'all!
Kennoir that the main problem thing the sonic fanbase it’s ok to tell your opinion to someone and you disagree but don’t hate on someone because They have a different opinion.
Honestly I Agree With All The Points You Brought Up Here With The Deadly Six And Infinite. I Think That If You Take The Deadly Six Resign Them To Look Like Sonic Characters, Make Them A Threat, And Give There Character Good Writing I Think That You Could Fix The Issues With The Deadly Six And They Would Be Good Sonic Villain's. And Infinite In My Opinion Needs Redemption I Feel That If They Reboot Infinite, Give Him A Better Reason He Became A Villain (Unlike How We Saw In Episode Shadow) Make Him A Threat, And Make His Character Better Overall I Think That These Villain's Can Have Good Redemptions
There are no bad characters, only bad writers. In the right hands, even the most lackluster villains can be made compelling. Just look at Kite Man from Batman. Having said that, I think the Deadly Six should be redesigned to look more threatening. That Lost World artstyle does them no favours.
Well if a character is written in a way the original writer intended too, then its a bad character. Rewriting them ends up turning them into a new character yet looking the same
Except they should have matured a GODDAMN decade ago. This series is turning 30 years old. That's a tad too late for telling what good storytelling is, chief.
@@donathan2933 Not facts. "Maturing," HA! It's literally made everyone 10 times more of an ass. Now Sega has the story police breathing down their neck making sure everything is done EXACTLY the way they want. The Sonic games are games, not books. Since when does every Sonic story HAVE to be this in depth masterpiece?
@@chrange9714 Yeah they kinda do. Sonic has ALWAYS been, from his inception, to be over the top "big book like masterpiece", as you put it. It's only recently that they've stepped away and done this stupid shit.
@@richardfitzwell4618 No they don't and that isn't how he's "always been from inception" at all. The big story stuff only started at Adventure. I love bigger stories and villains as much as the next guy, but it's in zero way a must. SEGA can do whatever they want. It also isn't recently that they've stepped away from that.
@@chrange9714 *Sonic 1* - Robot and Sonic have a 1v1 (while the entire game is about how Robotnik has destroyed Sonic's world). *Sonic 2* - Battling a giant robot mech in a death machine over the fate of the planet. *Sonic 3* - Major final battle in space with an enhanced Death Egg Robo and has become a staple of the franchise. *Sonic CD* - Is all about how if they fail, the world will be destroyed. *Sonic 3D Blast* - Interdimensional final battle with Robotnik. *Sonic Adventure* - Robotnik unleashes a pissed off god that destroys an entire city. *Sonic Adventure 2* - Final battle in space while a giant monster tries to slam the ark into the earth, as per Robotnik's grandfather's last vestigal remnants of revenge. *Sonic Heroes* - Metal comes back looking for revenge and turns into a giant monster. *Shadow The Hedgehog* - The final fight is literally with a creature named "Devil Doom", need I say more? *Sonic 06* - A final battle over the entire universe with an interdimensional god, after Sonic literally dies. *Sonic and The Secret Rings* - Battles an all-powerful genie. *Sonic and The Black Knight* - Battles a rogue King Arthur who's hellbent on taking over the world. *Sonic Unleashed* - After putting the world back together after it's been shattered to pieces, Sonic battles an evil god in the pits of the planet. *Sonic Colors* - Sonic fights an alien god who's been turned evil by Robotnik. *Sonic Generations* - Time has been destroyed and Sonic's speed is the only thing that can fix it, with the final battle being a time-eating god. *Sonic Forces* - Infinite creates an army to destroy Sonic and friends, in a world destroyed by Eggman.
@@chrange9714 Looks to me how that "villains aren't larger than life" thing is only recently and is a betrayal to the formula that's been used since Sonic's inception. Sonic stories were always about facing overly powerful threats that could destroy the world, universe or life itself. These new villains are childishly laughable, fitting with these crappy new games.
The only time the deadly six become a threat is when they appear in the Zombot arc of the IDW comics. Their inclusion makes sense. They quickly become a threat by taking control of Eggman's robots and the Zombot hordes. And they actually put up a good fight. Master Zik Vs. The Babylon Rogues was honestly one of the best parts.
I like gaia too, although he was more of an entity and ethereal being than a character. But it worked as a whole "end of the world" plot. To this day Chaos is probably the most threatening and well written villain in the series, he had direct connection to the Chaos emeralds and had a great backstory to boot. When I was a kid I thought Shadow was a lazy character design, but after seeing the edgelord villain in forces, even he looks tame in comparison.
The best villain is definitely Merlina. Her motivation is quite reasonable and relatable, and, what’s more, her final from is magnificently intimidating.
You could debate that Mephiles isn't a good SONIC villain because he feels completely out of place, but honestly, that's kinda the reason I think he's the best. He's Evil, a real Threat, Psicotic and acctually really enjoyable.
Mephiles is the best , great character , has a reason for what he does , the biggest threat in the sonic series as he almost destroyed reality as we know it , evil just a psychopath,a great design and Dan green jsut brings out the character even more a amazing villian that needs to return somehow
For the Deadly Six I feel like all they need to do is give them a more developed backstory, explain their origins and the Lost Hex. I feel like they should have connections to the Chaos Emeralds since if you look at their colors they match up except for one emerald. I don't mind them personally, it's nice to give Sonic and friends a group or "family" of villains to take on instead of just one lone villain like Chaos or Metal Sonic.
Yeah that could work. Change up their designs a little too. The art style of Lost World isnt helping either it makes them way too soft for demon looking creatures. Another thing is redesigning the Lost Hex to more of a vaporwave like aesthetic and explaining where it actually is. Maybe it could a small planet that is inbetween regular space and the special zone giving how wacky and random the place looks (which explains my vaporwave comment earlier and their bright color scheme).
@@andresmarrero8666 That is like asking how it doesn't crash into angel island whenever that one is floating. They are just not in the same relative place, that is not even something that needs to be elaborated.
@@lpfan4491 a gaint planetoid with a massive gravitational pull and wonky temporal happenings throughout, and you expect it to have no effect on the lost helix? Angel island at least has the Master Emerald to cancel out the effects and Babylon Gardens had the excuse of being buried the majority of the time. What does the lost helix have? Completely nothing, infact sections of it are literally just floating on their own. Of course a moon size planetoid (at the very least) that has entered the upper atmosphere is going to affect another planetoid in the upper atmosphere. There definitely is a need for an answer, and preferably one that has more thought put into it than a few at the moment seconds and one that actually makes sense.
Infinite had evertything to be one of the best. The aesthetic, the music, design. About a second form, there is this unused concept of Infinite being fully taken by the Phantom Ruby and becoming some super BIG monster, and it would take Super Sonic, Super Classic Sonic and even a super version of the avatar to take him down. He totally could've betrayed eggman. I dont know why was all of this discarded. He had what he needed to be a threat, but he just wasnt. Its a shame, cuz he IS my favorite villian, but that, and his poor back story makes you see the terrifying figure who took Sonic down by the beggining of the game , in a poor loser who is motivated by a tantrum, and speaks a lot.
Both Biolizard & Chaos aren't villains, they are antagonists. Eggman was the villain in SA1 & Gerald (though he wasn't alive in the game) was the villain in SA2.
Not really. Crapshoot cartoon villains are still crapshoot cartoon villains. There's a difference between Chaos, Dark Gaia and Solaris and these new villains. One side is planet ending threats with raising stakes and then there are kidified troublemakers who's design looks like it was drawn by a child.
@@El_Mince I've always felt that "Pontaff" was too cutesy of a nickname for those two. I prefer to call them "Dumb and Dumber", but maybe that's just me.
I think, as the deadly six are written in the IDW comics, I like Zavok because his personality and ambitions are different from the poor script from Sonic Lost World, which limit them to be stereotypes. Now he is portrayed as someone who believes in the discipline and the family, like Team Dark and being the oposite of Eggman and his confidence in machines, so its much more interesting.
Pathetic garbage. Seriously, why the hell are you bring up those shitty comics ? He's literally the SAME character from SLW, only they injected more Bowser by having him act as the papa to his Koopaling rip-offs. Threatening my left foot lol
@@ponthackslayer3339 bro calm down, its not even shitty infact im not even a sonic fan and those comics made me and many others new fans, its that damn good
As for Infinite, him having a "backstory" doesn't amount to squat. He's some random merc with a team who are....bad just because. He joins Eggman because he has a vision of post apocalyptic ruins. Why ? How ? Who ARE his teammates ? What's his real name ? And in Forces, whenever he achieves something, it's only off-screen or via plot-induced stupidity.
Just found this channel today and I've been binging your videos for over an hour. From one Sonic fan to another, you're making great stuff man, keep up the incredible work.
Infinite was beyond disappointing. He had so much potential to be great if he was written by literally anyone else. I’d rather him come back than the complete jokes known as the Deadly Six...
I feel that even though the deadly six don’t seem like they would fit into the world, that could have really been put into their favor. I mean, they are from a floating piece of land (or whatever it is) that’s literally been dubbed the Lost Hex. If there were more competent writers for Lost World, I feel like we could have gotten more from the Lost Hex, as well as A LOT more for the Deadly Six
I think most would agree, I always felt like the Zeti was just another weird attempt at making Sonic closer to Mario??? Like hey it's cool if people like them I guess but their designs and overall feeling don't give me personally Sonic vibes. Like they seem less Sonicy than Scratch and Grounder or the Freedom Fighters but yeah I don't know very strange lol
@@jreamstudiio3656 yeah i know they literally said they wanted colors and lost world to appeal mario fans thus betraying sonic fans and sonic in general
I'd argue that the Biolizard isn't so much a villain directly, more like a tool used by Gerald to enact his revenge. The Biolizard is very threatening, and a good boss to fight, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an actual villain. That would be Gerald. The Biolizard is sorta mindless, only putting the Earth in danger at the behest of Gerald and his twisted plan to get revenge on the Earth and humanity for taking Maria from him. Everything else you've said I 100% agree with though. They didn't do a great job making the Deadly Six very threatening. They had potential, but it was squandered unfortunately. No thanks to Pontac and Graff. Same with Infinite. He had even more potential, but it all led to nothing. Good vid!
It's nice to see some small appreciation for Infinite. It's not something you see every day. (He deserved better from Forces, honestly. I hope Sonic Team doesn't ignore him, and instead try to fix his character. It's not too late, even without a reimagining of Forces.) Nice video, by the way.
Same, I like infinite, the only problem I have for infinite is his motives of being evil “I’m not weak”. I also believe the theory that melphilies (I know I spelled his name wrong) Is infinite’s master, if you like infinite and don’t believe in that theory, I won’t be mad. I hope sega will do more with this character
@@ethanissupercool7168 Actually, I saw a really cool theory regarding the similarities between Infinite and the Phantom Ruby and Mephiles the other day on a Discord server, although it is different from the theory that you're referring to. If you'd like, I could try to find it and copy paste it. I do agree though; I'm not the biggest fan of his goals and some aspects of his backstory. It's quite a shame.
I'd like to see more antagonists than villains! Characters who aren't necessarily evil but are doing things that Sonic and the gang have to stop. And I'd like them to have a bit more personality than just "I'm Evil, and I'm going to destroy the world for no apparent reason! MWA HA HAA!"
@@tiruliru1189 Yeah, I'm saying nothing new, but I've never been a fan of Zavok or the Deadly Six and I'm sick of their overuse! Maybe I could be a bit more forgiving of them if they actually looked more like Sonic characters, but they really don't! They just look out of place! I mean, what even are they? Aliens? Demons? I don't even think the people who created them know, or care!
@@thesplatooanima8231 Not entirely. A villain is evil. A villain in a story is doing evil things that the hero has to stop. An antagonist is different. A story about a kid who goes to school, the protagonist, can have an antagonist that could be a bully who gives them a hard time or a teacher who constantly puts them in detention for things that aren't their fault, but that doesn't make them villains.
I actually think Zavok is a good character and has lots of potential. I just think he needs a but more characterization. I think it would be neat if he was nasty and menacing, but enjoyed things like sewing or knitting. 😆
If they really want the Deadly Six back, then they should give them better design and a backstory. Oh and also motivations and explanations. Right now, I see Zavok as a clueless idiot.
Infinite wasn't a threat? >Took down Sonic >Can create large numbers of clones of previous villains >Killed many civilians >Very power was feared by the Rookie >Literally created THE SUN to wipe out the resistance
>it was a 5v1 >can be nullified with a prototype phantom ruby >there’s no evidence that anyone was killed >rookie is a random civilian >was nullified by the prototype phantom ruby Conclusion, infinite is trash
@@requiem550 >That '5v1' was only possible because of Infinite's power to clone them. It's not like Shadow, Zavok, Chaos, and Metal all woke up decided "let's fight Sonic today." >Even with the prototype on the resistance's side, they were still too many clones for the resistance to fight, even after the rookie canceled the Sun. >"No evidence" ruclips.net/video/qrs8UozGEDo/видео.html @ 5:20 >Your point? Rookie was a random civilian, yes, but he's a main character. And when you have a main character that has to overcome something fearful, that's what a threat is, which creates stakes and character development. >A threat is a threat, "an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage," Webster says. Just because they're plan was foiled in the end does not mean it wasn't threatening. By that logic, Eggman isn't threatening because Sonic beat him multiple times. Perfect Chaos isn't threatening because Super Sonic nullified him in the end. Black Doom isn't threatening because Super Shadow beat him. Etc...
Still was executed poorly, Pontaff couldn't even make him a threatening villain, wish he was a Sadomasochist as that's the trait I've noticed his theme showing him to be and honestly, would've made him more of a true threat because he wont give in and will endure pain, the song even says "Cause I was born in this pain, it only hurts if you let it." but what does he do at the end? Starts to lose it after the defeat before flying away, how is it HIS theme if these lyrics mean nothing?
I agree for the most part, but I think the Deadly Six's unfitting design is accurate seeing as they're from a different world. It's just like the aliens we see in Sonic Chronicles, they look different because their world is different
No love for Merlina? She played Sonic like a fiddle, and got what she wanted, basically winning. She also has probably one of the best boss theme songs in With Me which along with the villains being lacking, I feel a lot of the more recent songs are too - compared to Open Your Heart, Live And Learn, What I'm Made Of - what with Reach For The Stars being too poppy and auto tune heavy, and Fist Bump, while musically pretty great, the vocals leave alot to be desired and the lyrics suck. Give me Emi Jones' rewritten ones (Strength) any day of the week. Also I won't shed any tears if we never see the Deadly Six again.
Wow I completely forgot about her. Im disappointed in myself. Now that I remember, she was pretty good too and I think shes one of the only major female Sonic villians too. Her choice of making a kingdom that last forever isnt inherently a bad choice but Sonic's perspective is just as vaild not only giving a decent moral conclusion to the game but also the flower Sonic gives her that (could) represent a new era for her and the kingdom she resides in thanks to Sonic.
@@justcallmekai1554 I feel with Merlina she's a good sum up of the current state of the franchise this past decade, what with its only reliance on nostalgia: extended 2D sections, Green Hill showing up in every other game, old school Badniks from Lost World and Classic Sonic. As well as those who say about Sonic was only go in 2D and must go back to them and stay there. With that said I feel the Dark Queen's word feel quite fitting when you look to stop time as you lean too hard on nostalgia, rather than trying to step forward towards the futture... [Merlina, now transformed as the Dark Queen, is sitting on a throne.] Dark Queen: I've been expecting you. Sonic: Just one question before we settle this. Why'd you do it? Weren't we trying to save this franchise from the underworld? Dark Queen: This franchise will fail one way or another. Such is its fate. Sonic: Huh? Dark Queen: Do you know what is to become of this franchise? Sonic: Beats me. [The Dark Queen starts to walk forward] Dark Queen: The introduction of humans and guns shall doom the franchise. Sonic is struck down by Mephiles, and is then kissed back to life by a human princess. Sonic: ... Dark Queen: This was to be our ideal world. But it will not last... Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends will end in ruin. The 3D world my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes... But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard. Creating a 2D kingdom that never ends. [Uses a small portal to summon a Sonic The Hedgehog Mega Drive cartridge.] [A flashback of the "To the Blacksmith" scene with Merlina picking up the same Mega Drive cartridge. Sonic finally realizes what her plans are.] Sonic: What good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!? Dark Queen: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the depths of the underworld. Do you not understand? Sonic: No! And I don't want to!
Villain analysis for the ones I care about: Chaos: A watermonster that can absorb the power of the chaos emeralds to become stronger. The issue is....how and why? Unlike what SA1 wants us to believe, we actually know exactly 0 things about this thing's actual backstory. Okay, we know it was once a chao, but we only know that due to the chaogarden allowing us to make chaoschao and not because the story ever gave the implication. The only context SA1 gives us, is that it hangs around the master emerald and protects the chao. Well, except that it almost flooded the world twice and chao can drown. Oops, the writers certainly didn't communicate with the part of the team that programmed the chaogarden, lol. There is also a big inconsistency when it comes to its mental state. Is it a cunning trickster or a wild beast that randomly lashes out? It doesn't attack eggman until it makes sense to do so, but the game also wants to tell me that it is out of control and is too clouded by anger to act rationally. Which is it? This actually gets worse in later games too. In battle, it just randomly appears because chaos-energy or whatever...even tho it is purified already, so what is this? And in chronicles, it is said that it *selectively* only destroyed the Knucklesclan....because bananas. Overall, kinda bad villain in a decent plot about opening ones heart. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gerald Robotnik: He is really the true villain of SA2 and he is great. He has a backstory that gives the player sympathy for his situration, but it is also clear that he just became mad and his plan needs to be stopped. The great thing about him is how well he fits into the Sonic Universe's lore in the past, present and future. His existance explains why Eggman got into science and it can reasonably be speculated that his plans for world domination originally came from a desire to make the familyname relevant again. His backstory also tragically fits the bill for one of the running thematics of the story, that the militaryforce G.U.N always did what gave them the advantage, even if it is completely wrong and at the expence of innocent people. He also is a great jumping-off point for more plotslines, which is why Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Battle feel like they belong into the series in my eyes....even tho they really could be written more competently. Great villain, 11/10(Only halfjoking) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Black Goku- er, I mean Black Doom: Well, here is some wasted potential. He is honestly a pretty fun villain for me to watch when I play Shadow the Hedgehog, due to how menacing he is and how he manipulates Shadow. He has a legitimate reason why he cannot inact his grand plan outside of the final story due to him definitively needing the emeralds, which Shadow keeps to himself in other storylines. The Black Arms also do stuff to secure the emeralds and he is believably threatening. He gives Shadow some room to breathe, but attempts to execute him when the betrayal becomes too strong, like he probably should. So, good villain, right? Well, sometimes, I guess. The reason why he fails on some level tho is how he doesn't mesh well with the storystructure of the game he is in. Remember how he tells Shadow to grab the emerald in cosmic fall? What happens when the black hedgehog actually does that? Well, eggman fight and then Black Doom never appears again as the credits roll. Same stuff when Shadow destroys the ark's defenses. Remember how Shadow is one of the Black Arms himself? Well, Black Doom certainly doesn't remember every other day, because he calls him an inferior lifeform in the pure hero-ending. All this just sucks the life out of his position in the story, because it really feels like the plot can forget who he actually is whenever it wants. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mephiles the dank: Ah jeez, the second villain I really like that I have to call nonsense on. Look, this guy is a good villain in that he challenges the heroes and threatens the world in a way that makes sense and he is way more creepy and menacing than Black Doom. But the issue is that the story of 06 is just underdeveloped as heck. It is about as unfinished as the game itself. There are no rules to timetravel, so that already fails because a timetraveling deity should have won right away in a story without timetravel-rules. But even disregarding that, there is the issue of him becoming solaris again. Why does he need to break the iblisseal? Why is the seal stopping him from rejoining when it doesn't stop iblis from destroying the world after elise's death? Or what else is the reason why he can't just join with the future version of iblis? This is just never explained. Why doesn't he try to stop Shadow and Silver in the past? If Shadow decided not to leave the scepter of dankness there, he would have been paradox'ed out of existence. Why does he even get Silver as a hitman when he can just onehit Sonic with a backstab? All this is just out of whack. And I really dislike the interaction with silver where silver asks why Sonic wants to destroy the world. Mephiles asks back why he needs to know,("What does it matter to you?") but that is the completely wrong answer entirely. He could have said "How would I know?" or "He doesn't, but his existance will cause it regardless". It would both make him less suspicious, aswell as being more incharacter, due to it playing into Silver's doubt and guilt about it. And Mephiles would want to see this, as he is kind of a sadist. The thing I cannot get on his case about tho is how his powers work, as the game properly establishes that they rely on chaos energy. It can even be reasonably assumed that he needs the Chaos Emeralds to rejoin due to needing full power for that...even tho that is another thing that really should have been explained. Also, I like(ironically) how he doesn't even technically need to look for the emeralds, as he just somehow spawns them in at the end. Like the writers just needed a quick cheat to end the plot due to the game being rushed. (1/2)
The deadly noobs: Oh boi, here is the big one. I actually think they are somewhat fine in lost world. Their bigger issue in that game is that they are massively underdeveloped, but they kinda work for me due to one note times 6=6 notes. They also have somewhat of a threatlevel due to being in the winning position towards the start of the game. Their bigger downfall is how this is kinda not earned at all. The plot gave them the power by Sonic having to kick the controlitem away and them just using Eggman's invention that they had no part in. They feel more like reactionary villains than active ones, even in the japanese localisation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Infinite: He is weak. What? I am supposed to elaborate? Fine. Alright, so, what is his issue? Well, the opposite of the deadly 6 and chaos combined in a way. He is defined as a character and has a tangible backstory, but he is kinda overdefined in a bad way. We have literally three originstories for him that don't retcon each other but are supposed to be in a timeline with each other...and it all goes to heck from there. Mainstory claims that his origin is when he was recreated by eggman, episode Shadow claims that his origin was when he decided to put on the mask and the comics claims that his origin as infinite comes from Eggman using the phantom ruby to force his mercenarygang to work for him with the ruby. These tellings are just completely incompatible with each other and destroy each other. If Infinite is the same person he was before being remade, why does the maingame pretend like this was a sad thing? If he was forced to work for eggman, why does Eggman yell at him in episode Shadow like they were financially hired? Why would Eggman even be ok with him taking this random mask and acting allmighty if the mercenaryband were basically his slaves in a way? Why does the maingame hammer in the fact that Infinite should care more about his friends, when his friends failed him before? Not to mention, why doesn't his issue with being called weak relate to his friends being killed by Shadow? The way it is written, it relates more to his pride being hurt, instead of being a case of "I wasn't even strong enough to avenge you all". They also just made him dumb to make him and eggman look more menacing, like forces was an edgy fanfic of people who bandwagon that the 2000s were good, without understanding the games. Infinite gets two big Ws against Sonic and only gets a draw against the avatar because of him just.... leaving before the fight resolves. Why doesn't he just storm the resistancebase and kill them before they become powerful enough to beat him? It makes no sense. Not to mention him being betrayed by Eggman because why not. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Extra entry-Zavok in team Sonic Racing: What can I say? He sucks. Not even the japanese localisation can make sense of why he is here, because he literally has no reason to be. He is just as bad at racing as eggman according to the story, so he cannot possibly expect to assert dominance. So it has to do with monitary gain or a deal of eggman giving him robotics to control, rite? No, story directly states that Eggman doesn't pay him. Maybe it is some kind of masterplan to team up so that they can kill Sonic? Well, no...they are just after the energy generator and Zavok somehow kinda leaves the plot after he kidnaps dodonpa for the talking egg. Also, where is the cruelty he should have? He is barely even the same character as in Lost world, and that is kinda sad, as he was already kind of a failure there. (2/2)
Dude Solaris/Mephiles was just a puddle of black ooze, he couldn't do anything but move around on the ground, Solaris got a physical form from Shadow's shadow when the Sceptor first releases him, he was able fly around and affect the robots but could not do anything without a form.
I actually think the more comedic Eggman makes sense. Think about it, from Adventure to Unleashed he's basically always being betrayed by some godlike being. Maybe he's going through a form of depression, manifesting as incompetence and lack of motivation. He knows things are going to go south, so why bother?
@@windandfireproductions5358 Oh, what I was trying to say was that the events of Adventure to Unleashed explain his behavior in the games after that point.
I also think it wouldn't hurt to have villains that directly challenge other characters besides Sonic. An old favorite villain for me was Enerjak, who was a villain towards Knuckles. Another one was Mammoth Mogul who was used in later chapters to manipulate conflict without being directly involved. Also was connected to Silver as a mentor in his time. In the newer comic series we get alternate villains like Mimic. Not a global threat but someone who has scarred a new ally like Whisper. Dr. Starline is probably going to be a new opposition to Robotnik creating a possible three way conflict.
Infinite is my favorite villain but my mans has three separate backstories with weak executions. The writers didn't know what to do with him. *How to fix him.* 1. Established his backstory. Have his backstory center around the theme "It's a dog eat dog world" sense he's a mercenary. 2. Show why he's obsessed with strength. As a mercenary, he was taught that without strength, you are nothing. That the world is a dark & cruel place to people who are weak. 3. Have him form a relationship with his squad. Show that he he thought of them as a family & every decision he made was for them to be safe, even if he disagrees with the people who hired him. 4. Continue as Episode Shadow. 5. Show the parallel with him & Shadow. Shadow despises the world in Adventure 2 because it was cruel to him. Have him form a brother like relationship where Shadow understands Infinite's situation & wants to help him because they are just alike. 6. Sonic Forces but Infinite has more screen time & utilize his abilities to it's greatest extent, making him one of the op villains in the series. 7. Nerf Infinite like a fighting game patch note by cracking his Phantom Ruby. The Phantom Ruby would still be broken but he won't have unlimited energy & it would have to recharge. (1/2)
Everyone is mentioning Mephiles but a truly underrated force for Sonic is Merlina. She has all the makings of a good villain (and I say that loosely because she's more just an Antagonist) she's threatening, has a mysterious aura to her that was alluded to very early in Black Knight, and her betrayal was warranted not from a lust of power, but from fear of death which probably hits home for a lot more people than the average person may think But the main thing that I find pretty great about her as a character is her duality with Sonic in terms of ideals. She wants to save/change the world as she believes it should be, while Sonic is seeming the bad guy for letting the world she inhabited eventually end
Merlina is emblematic of my issues with black knight. It is just selfdefeating. She reasonably would have the nessesary abilities and powers to strategically alter fate if she really wanted to, but instead her actions just kinda destroyed the kingdom because yes. I don't even understand what her plan was. What was the dark end supposed to do that would make the kingdom eternal?
@@lpfan4491 that's one of those things that I honestly think they just didn't really go into enough. Like the idea of her obtaining the scabbard and getting all of that power is just what you needed to know, not necessarily how she planned on doing it, just as how she purposely withheld info from Sonic for when she told him to get the scabbard from the king If anything, I would make the assumption that her fucking her plan up is kind of what Sonic was trying to tell her. It's not her choice to change fate for the entire world, no matter what the intentions were
I like Zavock and Infinite. I understand the design aspect about Zavaoc, he and another character of the Deadly six could use a redesign. Funny thing, I have a character that somewhat shares a color palette similar to him. Sonic forces needs some patchwork to the game AND story. Infinite had a lot of potential, I really think they could have done something with him. Also since Blaze exists, (at least in her original cannon) she came from another dimension. Say Eggman fails at trying to faze sonic out of existence and he teleports Zavock, Zaz, (I think, the pink/purple one.) and their sister to Sonic's dimension. They're confused by the different environment, separated, as the three of them try to find their way back to one another and a way to go back home. We could see Zavock trying to use his smarts to the best of his ability in a foreign place. Zaz struggling without his siblings. And their sister who winds up on Robotnik's side. They might make friends or enemies. Perhaps they all end up on different sides? Interesting idea for conflict.
My favorite and top 5 Sonic the Hedgehog villains besides Dr. Eggman 1. Mephiles the Dark 2. Metal Sonic 3. Chaos (He's not a bad guy but he's a misguided chao that became a villain with his anger and sadness) 4. Biolizard 5. Dark Gaia Edit: I agree i do see the potential of Deadly Six and Infinite being great villains but sadly they become wasted villains that weren't treated well
TBH i am a dr. Eggman purist he is the only true villain ...... and it makes my heart cry that they made him a fucking joke in sonic boom ...... we need satam dr. Eggman
Lord Unhold I disagree I think eggman was always a joke example: he was a joke in adventures of sonic the hedgehog too which came before satam plus his canceled design was literally him wearing pajamas . I like serious eggman man better but I don’t mind him being a joke sometimes.
I'm fully aware that the deadly six didn't have that much thought put into them, but they've got a lot of potential. Sonic doesn't have any ensemble villains like the akatsuki in naruto to the ginyu force in dragon ball for example, and I think that they could fill in that role nicely. The writers need to flesh them out more, give them backstories, make them interact with each other more often, show how they complement each other, make them feel more like a team. Expand on the lore of the lost hex, zomom and zavok mention there being more zeti, show that there are more out there. Were told that Master Zik is the founder of the deadly six, how did he do it, how did Zavok become their leader, how did they recruit the other members, make everything feel more connected and alive. They have beef with both Sonic and Dr Eggman, they can do something with that. Eggman literally enslaved them and in recent games you just Have Zavok and sometimes Zazz willingly be Eggman's lackeys when it doesn't make sense for them to be working for him or split up like they are. I do like their designs but they should do more to make them fit in, like making them animals that haven't been officially used yet or try and make their current designs blend better with other elements of sonic. I hate seeing this neat group of characters handled so poorly when they could do so much more to make them interesting because I genuinely like them and want to see them become something more than cutouts
The Deadly Six and Infinite suffer mostly wasted potential, I think for the Zeti should go through a in universe redesign and amp up the Deadly part of them, round out their personalities, for instance, Zeena could be the Fem Fatale who is vain and selfish wanting anything she sets her sights on as hers. Claiming all she sees beautiful as her property and destroy anyone who will try stop her. She can also be sadistic as she reval in joy of seeing people in pain mentally and physically. Her weakness is her vanity, due to being so wrapped up in herself that she will drop her guard. She can see Amy and Rouge as particular rivals, disgusted of their willingness to do "GOOD AND SELFLESS THINGS!"
@@ChaosRayZero Technically since the end of SA2. Even tho she ended up using the team as a way to discover what eggman's treaure is, she really didn't even need it. She only founded it to help Shadow and Omega. And then past that point, she rarely did anything shady anymore. Well, except trying to steal the nonexistent tournamentprice in free riders.
8:22 dude it's called overused for a reason. If something is used too much then it's regarded as a negative thing. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. If something is overused, it's a problem.
I think the Deadly 6 has potential but I think they fall in a category of stereotypes. Maybe if they were given some more depth like details on their race, why they are a team, what happened to their planet, and why do they want to conquer earth?...they could've been better. And Infinite looked great on paper but his execution and motive to be the strongest was like something out of a cliche Dbz story. I think they should bring him back with his own army the Jackal Squad and utilizing the Phantom ruby to be on top of the world.
The IDW comics have created amazing villains so far and gave the Zeti more personality. The spin-off, Bad Guys, has a lot of great moments with the Sonic villains in the spotlight.
Sometimes I feel like the only way we can get good writing is if we do it ourselves. Maybe the fans will create something that'll one day outshine Sonic Team so much that they can't ignore it and have to change their ways. (No, Sonic Mania doesn't count, that was 2D Sonic, that's easy to do.) Also, awesome video, sonicsta! Love your knowledge of the Sonic Lore and the way you tackled this subject so well!
Just a hunch. I feel like the deadly six are about to be retired cause the comics are building up for them to be the big villain in their push to 50. Not to mention that Sega is caving a lot to fan pressure lately
The problem with villains in new Sonic stories isn't even necessarily that the villains aren't good. It's that the stories that they are in are poor and/or has no resonant theme underpinning the process of their defeat. Zavok and the Zeti from a writing standpoint aren't even bad. They are creatures that want revenge against invaders on their land and work together. It's actually interesting having the bad guys be the ones that are a team/family. The problem is that dynamic is never challenged nor does it challenge the heroes. Their world and their place in ti is also not properly developed. Infinite is a former mercenary squad leader who valued them, and who for reasons we are not sure of came to loathe the current state of the world and has a complex with feeling weak and inadequate. From there his defeat at the hands of Shadow and loss of his squad cause shim to be broken psychologically and replace that void with an alter ego fueled by a sense of new found power to assert his dominance as a cope. It's good stuff, it's just Infinite is heavily undercut by the fact the game never shows how he and Eggman impact the world. The theme of Friendship and Psychological trauma and the difficulty in overcoming it is there, but it isn't set up adequately to be resonant. We never see Infinite's relationship with his Squad or his existing trauma in regards to feeling weak or inadequate. Basically the villains are not properly developed or they don't have any pathos. I think the character design thing is just kind of a non-issue. Same with having forms. If the characters made people feel something more profound people wouldn't care, but because they don't they ar left to fall on their design.
I wish they will bring back infinite, I like how he is another mobiean against sonic, his powers are pretty cool too, they should try to justify why he is against sonic and the world if he ever comes back
Mephiles has to have been one of my favorites. As for the 6? Sega, please stop bringing them back. I really doubt people really want to see them return. They were really shallow and very forgettable.
The reason(s) lnfinite is a bad villain is not just because of his half-baked origin or the fact he isn't a threat. He has unnecessarily high loyalty to Eggman. My headcanon for Infinite pre-Phantom Ruby is Jackal Squad was a ragtag group of mercs trying to put themselves on the map ergo making a devil's deal being under Eggman's employ. When Shadow slaughtered all of Jackal Squad save Infinite, lnfinite had every right to drop the idea of working for Eggman. But no. He let himself become an empty vessel for the PR. After acquiring the Phantom Ruby, does he take revenge on Shadow? No. He goes right to Sonic. Even though l have a love/hate relationship with Infinite given he encapsulates a jackal's nature, he doesn't encompass the nature of a good Sonic villain. Not to mention he doesn't even push the Phantom Ruby to its limits because he's so broken over his battle(if you can call it that) with Shadow.
I feel like the biggest problem is that their not written well but I'm not that against them coming back because I feel like the series needs more recurring villains besides eggman
1:07 "It's all cool if we disagree." Just want to acknowledge that it's awesome you stated that up front. People often give a "this is just my opinion" disclaimer, but not enough of them emphasize that *they're okay with other people having different opinions.*
His writing isn't the best either. If he wanted to rejoin with Iblis and become Solaris again, why didn't he just go back in time where the monster was born and fuse with him there? Not to mention that he killed Sonic by himself, so why does he even need Silvers help in the first place?
@@PlahaKumar I think Mephiles just likes to mess with people, he is really manipulative plus he is half of a god that controls time and space, he can just go back and join Iblis but what would be more fun? That or trying to get a desperate kid to kill a loved hero? When that fails he just easily does that himself. He likes to see people in turmoil. I see him like a bored evil god in a way.
I mean, Sonic Adventure 2's main villain was more the vengeful will of Dr. Gerald Robotnik. Biolizard was more the mindless weapon he set to go off after he died. That said, my favorite Sonic villain is probably Merlina, just been we spent a good chunk of the game becoming friends with her before finding out that she was behind everything due to her despair over the apparently inevitable fall of Camelot, and Sonic resolving the issue by defeating her badass transformation by having his talking sword undergo a badass transformation in order to trigger an even more badass Golden transformation in Sonic himself, to what it's probably my favorite badass final battle theme in the franchise (whose lyrics seem to be an argument between Sonic and Merlina, but one where either one could sing either half since they are both supremely confident in their abilities and both see the other as a villain who is trying to force their way of life upon themselves). And then the two of them have a quiet conversation with one another where Sonic essentially tells her that life is precious because death is inevitable.
I believe the deadly Six like zavok has potential people hating them i understand people opinions it because overboard when someone says he doesn't look like he belongs cause of his appearance the series had a monster that was a prototype of the ultimate life form & he looked like he didn't belong in Sonic I believe A character like Zavok has potential in the future same as Infinite or he will end up like mephiles not be seen again
I want the Deadly Six to be great villains, but due to the lackluster writing, they are just kinda bland which is really disappointing since I liked Zavok in Lost World.
Haven’t watched the vid yet, but honestly, I don’t know WHAT people have against the Deadly Six. I think they’re really cool and entertaining. Zavok is my favorite Sonic villain.
I really wish they could bring back characters like Eggrobo, Metal Knuckles, Tails Doll, Fang, Bean, Bark, Honey and make them recurring villains in the series. All those characters fit better as rivals for Sonic and his friends than Zavok and the deadly six.
As said in the community tab I like Zavok he has a nice desgin to me and I feel like IDW did the heavy lifting to make him better and it's why I like the character is cause IDW did a bit more than the games .
FFS Stop bringing up those shitty comics. One, they recycled the SAME plot from SLW, only swapping Eggman with Snively the Platypus. Two, they cranked up on making him a Bowser rip-off by babysitting his moron underlings. Three, no, repeating the same plot of him stealing assets from someone else doesn't make him scarier. It's just lazy.
Agree with most of your points but Think Zarvoks Design fits in (strong + intimitating + not stupid), the rest ......... And really like Infinite but wished he would return or was used better
Everything you said is spot on. Although the best villains made in the new era are Orbot and Cubot. They give off a Scratch and Grounder vibe and it makes me smile. Lol
@@austinreed7343 Boom is a separate continuity that really only failed because of rushed and last second story revisions for the cartoon, Mania is a Classic story that honestly doesn't need the depth this video touches on. Your point is moot. I'm always correct.
also lets take a moment to give a shoutout to erazor djinn, who despite appearing in a spinoff is still one of my top ten villians (overall in my top 3 final sonic battles)
6:38 Actually, I personally think Zavok looks more like one of those Amazing Island "Preset" monsters. I forgot the creature's name, but there's one that totally looks like a re-color of him _over a decade before he existed._ If you've never heard of Amazing Island, it doesn't matter- just look up the U.S. box art. The monster I'm talking about is on the front, behind the kid, on the right.
I disagree with the Deadly Six on the point of they're ability to control robots which would include Metal, Omega, and Gemeral, and Zavok possibly being able to give Super Sonic a run for his money, but the 2010s were stuck with horrible writers that didn't even know about the series they were working on and SEGA scrambling to make up for 06 despite already doing that with Unleashed and Colors and Generations. Even then in the Wii U/PC version of Lost World it's implied they died while the 3DS version has them flying off, so they're continued appearance means the Handheld one is cannon. Infinite was just a clutter mess, they wanted to copy the Adventure era but didn't want to go all the way, Infinite was a robot and a mercenary beforehand, it was lack of commitment and not thought out. And with horrible writers and Malicious Mistranslation and additions that were never they're like the 6 month thing and Tails simply being missing instead of insane. The Deadly Six, Infinite, and Roger were all done dirty.
I mean yeah sure I don't like the Deadly six, except for Zavok and Master Zik. He would've been better if Lost World was a completely original game. He is like the closest thing we got out of Mephiles. They are both demons (one is a demon from the Dr. Faust mythology and the other is an Oni) who will sacrifice everything and manipulate everyone to achieve there goals. And yeah... I think Zavoks design would've been better, but I think he has cool looks good. And wouldn't call him ill-fitting since we have a God of Destruction and God of Sun who like they belong to a Final Fantasy game and a Space Satan who likes it came out of a Devil May Cry game.
Me: Totally agree with you concerning the Deadly Six. Wrote a fanfic set directly after Lost World, and they were not even mentioned but briefly in chapter one... as mere Zeti. Also Me: Writing a fanfic where Infinite is the primary villain, set during the infamous six month time skip in Forces, sitting here now being completely unsatisfied with your explanation of why Infinite is an underwhelming character. I was hoping for better constructed reasons than "He's literally worthless." It would have been far more interesting to hear your opinion why you thought this way.
If Infinite cannot take over the real world (Sonic's world, and Earth/human world). He will take over Null Space, cyberspace, and virtual reality instead.
TBH i am a dr. Eggman purist he is the only true villain ...... and it makes my heart cry that they made him a fucking joke in sonic boom ...... we need satam dr. Eggman
To be fair he was a joke in AoSTH too, and that series is widely beloved. The problem with long-running franchises in general (not just Sonic) that aren't afraid to "take things in a new direction" with their alternate-continuities is you get some people who like the funnier, light-hearted incarnations and others who like the more serious, darker tones. Then you get people who prefer one so much that they think the other shouldn't exist... Btw- in SatAM & AoSTH his name was *Dr. Robotnik.* You can argue the Japanese video game incarnation was technically always Eggman, but _both of those cartoons were made in the U.S._ before his American name changed back to Eggman.
I disagree that Infinite "lacks the ability to be a threat". With him at Eggman's side, Eggman came extremely close to winning, something that Eggman has never done (outside of the SatAM and Archie continuities, but those aren't the ones we're talking about). In the hands of a greater villain, Infinite absolutely dominates the world and is *very much* a threat. However, much like his decent backstory is hampered by its poor presentation, Infinite's threat level is hampered by the fact he has to listen to Eggman. Honestly, I wish they had gone the Sonic Heroes route and had him rebel against Eggman instead of listening to someone he very clearly does not agree with. I'd also argue the Deadly Six were handled about as well as they could be. They're pretty scuffed in concept, so there's not much you could do to fix them (especially if you're Pontac/Graff). Thus is the curse of being a modern Sonic villain, I'm afraid. Either you're great in concept and botched in execution, like Infinite, or executed extremely well but with a bad concept, like the Deadly Six.
Tbh I really like the deadly six I feel they don’t get to much credit. Yes I know they’re poorly written, but hey at least the IDW comics are making them way better characters! As for infinite I really like him as well his my favorite sonic villain. But they need to give him more character because in the game sonic forces, he’s another edgy and angry sonic villain and he really needs more character to him.
@@pixeldinodude4899 Fuck nah. The Sadly Dicks are a bunch of garbage Koopalings rip-offs, they're one note, they look goofy, those GARBAGE comics literally recycled the plot from SLW only with Snively The Platypus instead of Eggman, and cranked up Zavok's Bowser papa babysitter side. If you call them "better characters" because of some god-awful comics, you're lost.
@@ponthackslayer3339 I don’t like the argument that these characters look goofy because I think they look really cool. They also came from the lost hex so they have to look unique, but I still think they have potential for the sonic franchise if SEGA hires good writers for the games in my own opinion.
Honestly I do like the deadly six but I can agree that the are not really a threat to be honest Mephlis the Dark needs to return be cause he is the most sinister villain I've ever seen
I wish Shadow could have new enemies and rivals for future Sonic the Hedgehog video games, comic books, and TV shows: 1.) "A female sword fighter" similar to *Karai* (from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles), *Rose Wilson/Ravager* (from DC Universe), *Blade* (from Azure Striker Gunvolt), and *Mara Jade Skywalker* (from Star Wars: Expanded Universe/Legends) 2.) "Two Mysterious Siblings" similar to *Prometheus and Pandora* (from Megaman ZX series) 3.) "An evil counterpart" similar to *Mephiles the Dark* (from Sonic 06), *Infinite* (from Sonic Forces), *Eclipse the Darkling* (from Archie Sonic comics), *Dark Samus* (from Metroid Prime series), *SA-X* (from Metroid Fusion), *Omega Zero* (from Megaman Zero series), and *Luuke/Evil Luke clone* (from Star Wars: Expanded Universe/Legends) *Hint:* Just to try something different for Shadow (character), and to keep away from Dr. Eggman, Sonic and his friends.
Unfortunately i dont think Sega will take the risk of makin Spin-Off stories of other main sonic characters again (like Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Silver and Blaze) if they already have problems whit their main character's own world and continuity, then i dont see them writing stories for other characters in this ever changing and inconsistent "Modern Sonic Canon. atleast not for now.
This is always "Rouge the Bat's" fault. If she never found Shadow and E-123 Omega in Dr. Eggman's secret base (from Sonic Heroes), none of this would ever happen.
@@kunlesanders Well if it wasnt for her. probably Neo Metal Sonic wouldnt have been defeated, not to mention the Black Arms Invasion in SHTH, they would have destroyed everyone, not even Sonic or Eggman could have standed on their way. and even if we go way back to SA2 if Eggman didnt research on Project Shadow, Gerald would have succeded to destroy the world whit the Eclipse Cannon. Shadow and his story are a key component for Sonic's Timeline, too bad most of the people seem to oversee that.
Shadow doesn't know Maria's legacy anymore (Give them a chance to be happy.) Because Rouge was telling lies and hiding secrets to Shadow, and pretending that nothing happened. She treated Shadow as a puppet (a slave), and turned him into an edge lord for some reason. She doesn't care. (Between Sonic Heroes - present) Then and now Sonic and his friends are still bullying, hurting, abusing, and turning against him forever. And nothing changes. Now I understand why Sega was telling the truth in the first place. Shadow and Rouge aren't friends, family, and allies. Because they are different.
The deadly six is honestly what happens when you FORCE someone to create a character. Their personalities are so damn generic and their designs are stupid. (Because you can exactly tell their personalities by just looking at them) people tend to compare zavol with bowser and I don't think that's fair. Because bowser is actually a character, zavok just feels like your generic villain character, there's nothing that sticks out about him. Basically. He's the opposite of bowser.
Except he got dumped big time and he's a pathetic wimpy clown who can't achieve anything, isn't treated like a threat anymore, and feels like a third wheel. Especially in Forces.
The Hard-Boiled Heavies and Boom game villains fall under this too. Though yeah, the HBH can be excused due to the game’s deliberately silent narrative (and they reform at the end).
My problem with most Sonic villains is their motivations. Most of them devolve into just being weapons used by Eggman for his own ulterior motives with little of their own agency. And whenever they do have their own motivations, they don't really go beyond "be evil" from what I can tell. My favorite antagonists in the series have always been the ones that have their own reasonings for doing the things that they do. Knuckles was motivated by wanting to protect his home. Since he had spent so much time in isolation, he was easily tricked by Eggman into thinking that Sonic was out to destroy Angel Island. Sure, he's being used by Eggman to a degree, but most of what Knuckles does throughout Sonic 3 is through his own volition. Shadow wasn't manipulated by Eggman, but was rather working with him towards a common goal. Not only that, but Shadow was pushed towards that goal through the deeply personal connection of avenging his friend. Erazor Djinn wanted to rewrite the story of the Arabian Nights because he was tired of being relegated to the genie in the lamp, granting everybody else's wishes except his own. Merlina wanted to create an everlasting world because she was devasted by the prospect of ruin that her kingdom would fall under. For me, a good Sonic antagonist needs to have a motivation beyond destroying the world and being evil. If that's all they're going to do with a villain, then they might as well just replace that villain with Eggman.
a villain i notice people not really mentioning is mephiles. while yes he didn't have to be all convoluted in his quest to reunite with iblis he did all that because he wanted to cause as much destruction and pain as possible. i enjoy villains that have a good reason for being evil in the first place but honestly its also nice to just have a villain who is just chaotic and evil because they want to be. and that's exactly why mephiles does what he does. why just fuse with iblis immediately when he could manipulate a naive kid into killing someone that elise held dearly and causing her to finally release iblis? its because there is no fun in that. its much more amusing to have that particular chain of reactions go off then just time traveling andmerging with iblis from the get-go. sonic was never his target, sonic was simply just a means to an end. why attempt at manipulating and playing mind games with shadow instead of simply just killing him immediately? because he hates shadow and hates that he has no control over him. he breaks shadow's spirit first, controls him, and then just kills him. he just fails because shadow has his friends and his resolve. this really is what makes me enjoy mephiles's character tbh. sonic 06 was rushed and maybe if sega had given it more time it would've been a cool game since the writing for mephiles and team dark (this is the best shadow has been portrayed since)
Not only is Zavok on Eggman's team he's a complete joke who acts as nothing as a jobber sidekick who fails at literally everything he attempts and gets insulted by everybody in the cast without so much as attempting to fire back or defend himself. At the very least in Lost World I got the sense he was prideful and wasn't entirely a brute but had a real intellect behind his actions, even if poorly written. At first I was annoyed Zavok was in the game over other character, but by the end of the story I just felt bad for him. More than that it had to suck for people who actually like Zavok because they just had to sit there and watch him get trashed on by the whole cast and reduced to a shriveled husk of what he was in Lost World.
I'll always like Infinite and I'm still hoping to this day that he'll return, but I can also agree that they did him dirty in Sonic Forces. He really should have been the main villain. There was literally no reason he should have listened to Eggman when the former could have one shot him at any point.
7:45 And in _Sonic Battle,_ where the story excuse was no more than, "When that [Death Egg] battleship appeared, the 'estuary' [at Holy Summit] froze over and 'Chaos' appeared... He only shows himself in times of great crisis," shoved in during the last chapter and it was pretty clear that fight was just an excuse to unlock Chaos as a playable character and/or have Emerl copy his moves. Some of his combat is cool enough I'm willing to forgive it though. =^p
What's good y'all! Just as a quick reminder, this is ENTIRELY my opinion! If you disagree, that's all good and I completely respect that! I just ask that you would respect the opinions of others even if you disagree with them! With all that being said, have a blessed day y'all!
indeed, some people should know what an opinion is, not just sending hate while not knowing what an opinion is
Kennoir that the main problem thing the sonic fanbase it’s ok to tell your opinion to someone and you disagree but don’t hate on someone because They have a different opinion.
@@slwoo7432 exactly
Honestly I Agree With All The Points You Brought Up Here With The Deadly Six And Infinite. I Think That If You Take The Deadly Six Resign Them To Look Like Sonic Characters, Make Them A Threat, And Give There Character Good Writing I Think That You Could Fix The Issues With The Deadly Six And They Would Be Good Sonic Villain's. And Infinite In My Opinion Needs Redemption I Feel That If They Reboot Infinite, Give Him A Better Reason He Became A Villain (Unlike How We Saw In Episode Shadow) Make Him A Threat, And Make His Character Better Overall I Think That These Villain's Can Have Good Redemptions
Ppssst,,,, your discord link doesn't work,,, it says that its expired 😔
The only time I feel slightly threatened by a deadly six character is when I'm playing speed battle and I'm racing a Zazz main.
Lmao
Zazz is so freaking cheap man. It ain't even funny.
Quarterback Zavoks a real threat too
@@doncj1997 well. He's a Special. And that can be said about the others. But even with them, Zazz still reigns supreme.
one time i had to play a race against 3 zazz mains. i have never been so on edge about speed battle until that happened
There are no bad characters, only bad writers. In the right hands, even the most lackluster villains can be made compelling. Just look at Kite Man from Batman. Having said that, I think the Deadly Six should be redesigned to look more threatening. That Lost World artstyle does them no favours.
Well if a character is written in a way the original writer intended too, then its a bad character. Rewriting them ends up turning them into a new character yet looking the same
I feel like the Deadly Six is like the wisps... they need to go.
@@tyrell7693 The Wisps are perfectly fine imo. They just don't need to be the focus
@@alexbaribeault I heavily disagree. The wisps had story significance in Colors but have now just became a gimmick. ESPECIALLY in Forces.
@@hwanniggles187 nope just the writing not the characters itself
I love how we Sonic fans are maturing and becoming aware of what makes/made good story telling in past Sonic games and why we liked it so much.
facts
Except they should have matured a GODDAMN decade ago. This series is turning 30 years old. That's a tad too late for telling what good storytelling is, chief.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 facts
@@donathan2933 Not facts. "Maturing," HA! It's literally made everyone 10 times more of an ass. Now Sega has the story police breathing down their neck making sure everything is done EXACTLY the way they want. The Sonic games are games, not books. Since when does every Sonic story HAVE to be this in depth masterpiece?
@@yrooxrksvi7142 It's never too late. Every new game is a new chance.
I miss how Sonic villains felt like real beings in the context of their world, and how they expanded the Sonic lore.
They still do. What. Not every Sonic story HAS to be this big book like masterpiece. Nor do the villains have to be either.
@@chrange9714 Yeah they kinda do. Sonic has ALWAYS been, from his inception, to be over the top "big book like masterpiece", as you put it. It's only recently that they've stepped away and done this stupid shit.
@@richardfitzwell4618 No they don't and that isn't how he's "always been from inception" at all. The big story stuff only started at Adventure. I love bigger stories and villains as much as the next guy, but it's in zero way a must. SEGA can do whatever they want. It also isn't recently that they've stepped away from that.
@@chrange9714 *Sonic 1* - Robot and Sonic have a 1v1 (while the entire game is about how Robotnik has destroyed Sonic's world).
*Sonic 2* - Battling a giant robot mech in a death machine over the fate of the planet.
*Sonic 3* - Major final battle in space with an enhanced Death Egg Robo and has become a staple of the franchise.
*Sonic CD* - Is all about how if they fail, the world will be destroyed.
*Sonic 3D Blast* - Interdimensional final battle with Robotnik.
*Sonic Adventure* - Robotnik unleashes a pissed off god that destroys an entire city.
*Sonic Adventure 2* - Final battle in space while a giant monster tries to slam the ark into the earth, as per Robotnik's grandfather's last vestigal remnants of revenge.
*Sonic Heroes* - Metal comes back looking for revenge and turns into a giant monster.
*Shadow The Hedgehog* - The final fight is literally with a creature named "Devil Doom", need I say more?
*Sonic 06* - A final battle over the entire universe with an interdimensional god, after Sonic literally dies.
*Sonic and The Secret Rings* - Battles an all-powerful genie.
*Sonic and The Black Knight* - Battles a rogue King Arthur who's hellbent on taking over the world.
*Sonic Unleashed* - After putting the world back together after it's been shattered to pieces, Sonic battles an evil god in the pits of the planet.
*Sonic Colors* - Sonic fights an alien god who's been turned evil by Robotnik.
*Sonic Generations* - Time has been destroyed and Sonic's speed is the only thing that can fix it, with the final battle being a time-eating god.
*Sonic Forces* - Infinite creates an army to destroy Sonic and friends, in a world destroyed by Eggman.
@@chrange9714 Looks to me how that "villains aren't larger than life" thing is only recently and is a betrayal to the formula that's been used since Sonic's inception. Sonic stories were always about facing overly powerful threats that could destroy the world, universe or life itself. These new villains are childishly laughable, fitting with these crappy new games.
The only time the deadly six become a threat is when they appear in the Zombot arc of the IDW comics. Their inclusion makes sense. They quickly become a threat by taking control of Eggman's robots and the Zombot hordes. And they actually put up a good fight. Master Zik Vs. The Babylon Rogues was honestly one of the best parts.
Except they're not. It's the same shitty plotline from SLW again, only with Snively the Platypus instead of Eggman. Those comics are hot trash.
@@ponthackslayer3339 uh huh sure
@@michelleabarico7050 Nice denial there chief
@@ponthackslayer3339 chief? Tnx for the compliment
@@michelleabarico7050 Okay tool
Nobody:
Zazz: "IM GUNNA BEAT U LIKE A DRUM"
Lmao
Or...
"YOU'RE GOING HOME IN A BOX!"
@@darklink7850 Lmao I didnt know he worked for UPS
Mephiles is also a really good one. He managed to kill Sonic and was a threat. Moreover, he accomplished what he wanted.
One of sonic villains that actually killed sonic
I like gaia too, although he was more of an entity and ethereal being than a character. But it worked as a whole "end of the world" plot.
To this day Chaos is probably the most threatening and well written villain in the series, he had direct connection to the Chaos emeralds and had a great backstory to boot.
When I was a kid I thought Shadow was a lazy character design, but after seeing the edgelord villain in forces, even he looks tame in comparison.
The best villain is definitely Merlina. Her motivation is quite reasonable and relatable, and, what’s more, her final from is magnificently intimidating.
Yeah, I’m my opinion, I think both Merlina and Mephiles are the best villains
Merlina is definitely one of the best. Her having an awesome villain song ("With Me") doesn't hurt either.
@@mrbutt4eva625 I'd definitely say Mephiles is the best (and most threatening if you consider Solaris) Sonic villain of all time.
I'd say Mephiles
You could debate that Mephiles isn't a good SONIC villain because he feels completely out of place, but honestly, that's kinda the reason I think he's the best. He's Evil, a real Threat, Psicotic and acctually really enjoyable.
Mephiles isn't even out of place. He's so fucking cool.
Mephiles is the best , great character , has a reason for what he does , the biggest threat in the sonic series as he almost destroyed reality as we know it , evil just a psychopath,a great design and Dan green jsut brings out the character even more a amazing villian that needs to return somehow
@@scraps4338 Exactly. And the best part about him is when he manipulates Silver and kills Sonic.
And wasted no time when it came to killing sonic
I loved his character so much as a villain. It would be cool to see some more villains as good as he was.
For the Deadly Six I feel like all they need to do is give them a more developed backstory, explain their origins and the Lost Hex. I feel like they should have connections to the Chaos Emeralds since if you look at their colors they match up except for one emerald. I don't mind them personally, it's nice to give Sonic and friends a group or "family" of villains to take on instead of just one lone villain like Chaos or Metal Sonic.
Yeah that could work. Change up their designs a little too. The art style of Lost World isnt helping either it makes them way too soft for demon looking creatures.
Another thing is redesigning the Lost Hex to more of a vaporwave like aesthetic and explaining where it actually is. Maybe it could a small planet that is inbetween regular space and the special zone giving how wacky and random the place looks (which explains my vaporwave comment earlier and their bright color scheme).
Either way one has to explain how little planet doesn't just crash into the lost hex whenever it appears.
@@andresmarrero8666 That is like asking how it doesn't crash into angel island whenever that one is floating. They are just not in the same relative place, that is not even something that needs to be elaborated.
@@lpfan4491 a gaint planetoid with a massive gravitational pull and wonky temporal happenings throughout, and you expect it to have no effect on the lost helix? Angel island at least has the Master Emerald to cancel out the effects and Babylon Gardens had the excuse of being buried the majority of the time. What does the lost helix have? Completely nothing, infact sections of it are literally just floating on their own. Of course a moon size planetoid (at the very least) that has entered the upper atmosphere is going to affect another planetoid in the upper atmosphere. There definitely is a need for an answer, and preferably one that has more thought put into it than a few at the moment seconds and one that actually makes sense.
@@andresmarrero8666 By that logic, we first need an explanation how tiny planet and planet earth are not messing each other up.
Infinite had evertything to be one of the best. The aesthetic, the music, design. About a second form, there is this unused concept of Infinite being fully taken by the Phantom Ruby and becoming some super BIG monster, and it would take Super Sonic, Super Classic Sonic and even a super version of the avatar to take him down. He totally could've betrayed eggman. I dont know why was all of this discarded. He had what he needed to be a threat, but he just wasnt. Its a shame, cuz he IS my favorite villian, but that, and his poor back story makes you see the terrifying figure who took Sonic down by the beggining of the game , in a poor loser who is motivated by a tantrum, and speaks a lot.
He had a LOT of potential to being one of the greatest sonic villains. His art design and music was so badass
@Mary Moon Agreed
The infinite theme is great. Edgy, but great.
Hopefully infinite will be in more sonic media, there is still a chance to fix him. He still has potential
Infinite: *throws sun*
Sonicsta: "Not a threat"
I think Biolizard isn't really a villain in its own right. It's more of an extension of Gerald. His ghost, in a way.
Both Biolizard & Chaos aren't villains, they are antagonists. Eggman was the villain in SA1 & Gerald (though he wasn't alive in the game) was the villain in SA2.
The problem isn’t the characters. The problem is pontaff. Ian Flynn was able to make the deadly six actually okay.
What does pontaff mean?
@@LassBisharp ken pontac and warren graff
Not really. Crapshoot cartoon villains are still crapshoot cartoon villains. There's a difference between Chaos, Dark Gaia and Solaris and these new villains.
One side is planet ending threats with raising stakes and then there are kidified troublemakers who's design looks like it was drawn by a child.
@@richardfitzwell4618 okay, design wise, the deadly six blow, but in IDW they were actually bearable
@@El_Mince I've always felt that "Pontaff" was too cutesy of a nickname for those two. I prefer to call them "Dumb and Dumber", but maybe that's just me.
4:48 "Chaos, Metal Sonic & BioLizard, apart from Eggman, this are the best Villains in the Sonic Franchise"
Mephiles: Am I a Joke to you?! *Sad Violin
Technically doesn't exist so yes
You mean these
Exactly!!!!
Biolizard was just a monster under Gerald's control, not a villain with his own motivation or plan.
I think, as the deadly six are written in the IDW comics, I like Zavok because his personality and ambitions are different from the poor script from Sonic Lost World, which limit them to be stereotypes. Now he is portrayed as someone who believes in the discipline and the family, like Team Dark and being the oposite of Eggman and his confidence in machines, so its much more interesting.
Pathetic garbage. Seriously, why the hell are you bring up those shitty comics ? He's literally the SAME character from SLW, only they injected more Bowser by having him act as the papa to his Koopaling rip-offs. Threatening my left foot lol
@@ponthackslayer3339 bro calm down, its not even shitty infact im not even a sonic fan and those comics made me and many others new fans, its that damn good
@@wisccheese9257 If you're not a Sonic fan and like that lazy garbage, I question your tastes. It's trash of the lowest order
As for Infinite, him having a "backstory" doesn't amount to squat. He's some random merc with a team who are....bad just because. He joins Eggman because he has a vision of post apocalyptic ruins. Why ? How ? Who ARE his teammates ? What's his real name ? And in Forces, whenever he achieves something, it's only off-screen or via plot-induced stupidity.
Just found this channel today and I've been binging your videos for over an hour. From one Sonic fan to another, you're making great stuff man, keep up the incredible work.
Infinite was beyond disappointing. He had so much potential to be great if he was written by literally anyone else. I’d rather him come back than the complete jokes known as the Deadly Six...
I feel that even though the deadly six don’t seem like they would fit into the world, that could have really been put into their favor. I mean, they are from a floating piece of land (or whatever it is) that’s literally been dubbed the Lost Hex. If there were more competent writers for Lost World, I feel like we could have gotten more from the Lost Hex, as well as A LOT more for the Deadly Six
I think most would agree, I always felt like the Zeti was just another weird attempt at making Sonic closer to Mario??? Like hey it's cool if people like them I guess but their designs and overall feeling don't give me personally Sonic vibes. Like they seem less Sonicy than Scratch and Grounder or the Freedom Fighters but yeah I don't know very strange lol
why is sega even trying to make him like mario wasn't sonic from day 1 supposed to be the opposite of mario
@@jdawson7877 yep and Izuka thought it would be a good idea to appeal to Mario fans for some reason
@@jreamstudiio3656 yeah i know they literally said they wanted colors and lost world to appeal mario fans thus betraying sonic fans and sonic in general
I'd argue that the Biolizard isn't so much a villain directly, more like a tool used by Gerald to enact his revenge. The Biolizard is very threatening, and a good boss to fight, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an actual villain. That would be Gerald. The Biolizard is sorta mindless, only putting the Earth in danger at the behest of Gerald and his twisted plan to get revenge on the Earth and humanity for taking Maria from him. Everything else you've said I 100% agree with though. They didn't do a great job making the Deadly Six very threatening. They had potential, but it was squandered unfortunately. No thanks to Pontac and Graff. Same with Infinite. He had even more potential, but it all led to nothing. Good vid!
infinite was an interesting villain... kinda epic, with the glitch and illusions and all. he was just written so badly, just like most of Forces
It's nice to see some small appreciation for Infinite. It's not something you see every day. (He deserved better from Forces, honestly. I hope Sonic Team doesn't ignore him, and instead try to fix his character. It's not too late, even without a reimagining of Forces.)
Nice video, by the way.
Same, I like infinite, the only problem I have for infinite is his motives of being evil “I’m not weak”. I also believe the theory that melphilies (I know I spelled his name wrong) Is infinite’s master, if you like infinite and don’t believe in that theory, I won’t be mad. I hope sega will do more with this character
@@ethanissupercool7168 Actually, I saw a really cool theory regarding the similarities between Infinite and the Phantom Ruby and Mephiles the other day on a Discord server, although it is different from the theory that you're referring to. If you'd like, I could try to find it and copy paste it.
I do agree though; I'm not the biggest fan of his goals and some aspects of his backstory. It's quite a shame.
@@justmyopinion1797 what about his backstory in the prequel comics?
@@sonicthehedgehog1606 I know it exists. What about it?
@@justmyopinion1797 is it good
You forgot to mention mephiles, dark queen, and The Babylon rogue.
I'd like to see more antagonists than villains! Characters who aren't necessarily evil but are doing things that Sonic and the gang have to stop. And I'd like them to have a bit more personality than just "I'm Evil, and I'm going to destroy the world for no apparent reason! MWA HA HAA!"
Agreed. Also, no more Zavok.
@@tiruliru1189 Yeah, I'm saying nothing new, but I've never been a fan of Zavok or the Deadly Six and I'm sick of their overuse! Maybe I could be a bit more forgiving of them if they actually looked more like Sonic characters, but they really don't! They just look out of place! I mean, what even are they? Aliens? Demons? I don't even think the people who created them know, or care!
@@bowmaj8666 Agreed. I always hated Deadly Six and Classic Sonic.
Aren't Villains Antagonists?
@@thesplatooanima8231 Not entirely. A villain is evil. A villain in a story is doing evil things that the hero has to stop. An antagonist is different. A story about a kid who goes to school, the protagonist, can have an antagonist that could be a bully who gives them a hard time or a teacher who constantly puts them in detention for things that aren't their fault, but that doesn't make them villains.
I actually think Zavok is a good character and has lots of potential. I just think he needs a but more characterization. I think it would be neat if he was nasty and menacing, but enjoyed things like sewing or knitting. 😆
Yeah if they are gonna keep putting him in games they should actually do something with him that interesting.
TBH I kinda like all of the deadly six except maybe Zomom. Master Zik and Zavok probably having the most potential to write them into a good story
I think ZAZZ is better
I think that zavok is a good character in the idw especially the villains comic, where he really takes charge and shines in it.
If they really want the Deadly Six back, then they should give them better design and a backstory. Oh and also motivations and explanations. Right now, I see Zavok as a clueless idiot.
June 23rd better hit so hard we forget that Sonic '06 existed for a good 24 hours.
@@milesstorzillo1039 I mean people will be too hype to bring up why a lot of people like to clown on Sonic and hus fans.
@@milesstorzillo1039 Nah, just a lot of people think they'll be announcing a game or other news which will alleviate the main series' drought.
Infinite wasn't a threat?
>Took down Sonic
>Can create large numbers of clones of previous villains
>Killed many civilians
>Very power was feared by the Rookie
>Literally created THE SUN to wipe out the resistance
>it was a 5v1
>can be nullified with a prototype phantom ruby
>there’s no evidence that anyone was killed
>rookie is a random civilian
>was nullified by the prototype phantom ruby
Conclusion, infinite is trash
@@requiem550
>That '5v1' was only possible because of Infinite's power to clone them. It's not like Shadow, Zavok, Chaos, and Metal all woke up decided "let's fight Sonic today."
>Even with the prototype on the resistance's side, they were still too many clones for the resistance to fight, even after the rookie canceled the Sun.
>"No evidence" ruclips.net/video/qrs8UozGEDo/видео.html @ 5:20
>Your point? Rookie was a random civilian, yes, but he's a main character. And when you have a main character that has to overcome something fearful, that's what a threat is, which creates stakes and character development.
>A threat is a threat, "an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage," Webster says. Just because they're plan was foiled in the end does not mean it wasn't threatening.
By that logic, Eggman isn't threatening because Sonic beat him multiple times. Perfect Chaos isn't threatening because Super Sonic nullified him in the end. Black Doom isn't threatening because Super Shadow beat him. Etc...
Still was executed poorly, Pontaff couldn't even make him a threatening villain, wish he was a Sadomasochist as that's the trait I've noticed his theme showing him to be and honestly, would've made him more of a true threat because he wont give in and will endure pain, the song even says "Cause I was born in this pain, it only hurts if you let it." but what does he do at the end? Starts to lose it after the defeat before flying away, how is it HIS theme if these lyrics mean nothing?
I agree for the most part, but I think the Deadly Six's unfitting design is accurate seeing as they're from a different world. It's just like the aliens we see in Sonic Chronicles, they look different because their world is different
my top 5 sonic villans
1 mephiles
2 metal sonic
3 chaos
4 black doom
5 biolizard
The Deadly Six look like Space Jam rejects.
Sonicstas pinned comment says 2 days ago even tho this video came a few minutes ago, kinda strange XD
Lol Ikr, what’s up with RUclips?
No love for Merlina? She played Sonic like a fiddle, and got what she wanted, basically winning. She also has probably one of the best boss theme songs in With Me which along with the villains being lacking, I feel a lot of the more recent songs are too - compared to Open Your Heart, Live And Learn, What I'm Made Of - what with Reach For The Stars being too poppy and auto tune heavy, and Fist Bump, while musically pretty great, the vocals leave alot to be desired and the lyrics suck. Give me Emi Jones' rewritten ones (Strength) any day of the week. Also I won't shed any tears if we never see the Deadly Six again.
Wow I completely forgot about her. Im disappointed in myself. Now that I remember, she was pretty good too and I think shes one of the only major female Sonic villians too.
Her choice of making a kingdom that last forever isnt inherently a bad choice but Sonic's perspective is just as vaild not only giving a decent moral conclusion to the game but also the flower Sonic gives her that (could) represent a new era for her and the kingdom she resides in thanks to Sonic.
@@justcallmekai1554 I feel with Merlina she's a good sum up of the current state of the franchise this past decade, what with its only reliance on nostalgia: extended 2D sections, Green Hill showing up in every other game, old school Badniks from Lost World and Classic Sonic. As well as those who say about Sonic was only go in 2D and must go back to them and stay there. With that said I feel the Dark Queen's word feel quite fitting when you look to stop time as you lean too hard on nostalgia, rather than trying to step forward towards the futture...
[Merlina, now transformed as the Dark Queen, is sitting on a throne.]
Dark Queen: I've been expecting you.
Sonic: Just one question before we settle this. Why'd you do it? Weren't we trying to save this franchise from the underworld?
Dark Queen: This franchise will fail one way or another. Such is its fate.
Sonic: Huh?
Dark Queen: Do you know what is to become of this franchise?
Sonic: Beats me.
[The Dark Queen starts to walk forward]
Dark Queen: The introduction of humans and guns shall doom the franchise. Sonic is struck down by Mephiles, and is then kissed back to life by a human princess.
Sonic: ...
Dark Queen: This was to be our ideal world. But it will not last... Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends will end in ruin. The 3D world my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes... But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard. Creating a 2D kingdom that never ends. [Uses a small portal to summon a Sonic The Hedgehog Mega Drive cartridge.]
[A flashback of the "To the Blacksmith" scene with Merlina picking up the same Mega Drive cartridge. Sonic finally realizes what her plans are.]
Sonic: What good is a world where Green Hill goes on forever!?
Dark Queen: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the depths of the underworld. Do you not understand?
Sonic: No! And I don't want to!
Villain analysis for the ones I care about:
Chaos:
A watermonster that can absorb the power of the chaos emeralds to become stronger. The issue is....how and why? Unlike what SA1 wants us to believe, we actually know exactly 0 things about this thing's actual backstory. Okay, we know it was once a chao, but we only know that due to the chaogarden allowing us to make chaoschao and not because the story ever gave the implication. The only context SA1 gives us, is that it hangs around the master emerald and protects the chao. Well, except that it almost flooded the world twice and chao can drown. Oops, the writers certainly didn't communicate with the part of the team that programmed the chaogarden, lol.
There is also a big inconsistency when it comes to its mental state. Is it a cunning trickster or a wild beast that randomly lashes out? It doesn't attack eggman until it makes sense to do so, but the game also wants to tell me that it is out of control and is too clouded by anger to act rationally. Which is it? This actually gets worse in later games too. In battle, it just randomly appears because chaos-energy or whatever...even tho it is purified already, so what is this? And in chronicles, it is said that it *selectively* only destroyed the Knucklesclan....because bananas. Overall, kinda bad villain in a decent plot about opening ones heart.
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Gerald Robotnik:
He is really the true villain of SA2 and he is great. He has a backstory that gives the player sympathy for his situration, but it is also clear that he just became mad and his plan needs to be stopped. The great thing about him is how well he fits into the Sonic Universe's lore in the past, present and future. His existance explains why Eggman got into science and it can reasonably be speculated that his plans for world domination originally came from a desire to make the familyname relevant again. His backstory also tragically fits the bill for one of the running thematics of the story, that the militaryforce G.U.N always did what gave them the advantage, even if it is completely wrong and at the expence of innocent people. He also is a great jumping-off point for more plotslines, which is why Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Battle feel like they belong into the series in my eyes....even tho they really could be written more competently. Great villain, 11/10(Only halfjoking)
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Black Goku- er, I mean Black Doom:
Well, here is some wasted potential. He is honestly a pretty fun villain for me to watch when I play Shadow the Hedgehog, due to how menacing he is and how he manipulates Shadow. He has a legitimate reason why he cannot inact his grand plan outside of the final story due to him definitively needing the emeralds, which Shadow keeps to himself in other storylines. The Black Arms also do stuff to secure the emeralds and he is believably threatening. He gives Shadow some room to breathe, but attempts to execute him when the betrayal becomes too strong, like he probably should. So, good villain, right? Well, sometimes, I guess.
The reason why he fails on some level tho is how he doesn't mesh well with the storystructure of the game he is in. Remember how he tells Shadow to grab the emerald in cosmic fall? What happens when the black hedgehog actually does that? Well, eggman fight and then Black Doom never appears again as the credits roll. Same stuff when Shadow destroys the ark's defenses. Remember how Shadow is one of the Black Arms himself? Well, Black Doom certainly doesn't remember every other day, because he calls him an inferior lifeform in the pure hero-ending. All this just sucks the life out of his position in the story, because it really feels like the plot can forget who he actually is whenever it wants.
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Mephiles the dank:
Ah jeez, the second villain I really like that I have to call nonsense on. Look, this guy is a good villain in that he challenges the heroes and threatens the world in a way that makes sense and he is way more creepy and menacing than Black Doom. But the issue is that the story of 06 is just underdeveloped as heck. It is about as unfinished as the game itself. There are no rules to timetravel, so that already fails because a timetraveling deity should have won right away in a story without timetravel-rules. But even disregarding that, there is the issue of him becoming solaris again. Why does he need to break the iblisseal? Why is the seal stopping him from rejoining when it doesn't stop iblis from destroying the world after elise's death? Or what else is the reason why he can't just join with the future version of iblis? This is just never explained. Why doesn't he try to stop Shadow and Silver in the past? If Shadow decided not to leave the scepter of dankness there, he would have been paradox'ed out of existence. Why does he even get Silver as a hitman when he can just onehit Sonic with a backstab? All this is just out of whack.
And I really dislike the interaction with silver where silver asks why Sonic wants to destroy the world. Mephiles asks back why he needs to know,("What does it matter to you?") but that is the completely wrong answer entirely. He could have said "How would I know?" or "He doesn't, but his existance will cause it regardless". It would both make him less suspicious, aswell as being more incharacter, due to it playing into Silver's doubt and guilt about it. And Mephiles would want to see this, as he is kind of a sadist.
The thing I cannot get on his case about tho is how his powers work, as the game properly establishes that they rely on chaos energy. It can even be reasonably assumed that he needs the Chaos Emeralds to rejoin due to needing full power for that...even tho that is another thing that really should have been explained. Also, I like(ironically) how he doesn't even technically need to look for the emeralds, as he just somehow spawns them in at the end. Like the writers just needed a quick cheat to end the plot due to the game being rushed.
(1/2)
The deadly noobs:
Oh boi, here is the big one. I actually think they are somewhat fine in lost world. Their bigger issue in that game is that they are massively underdeveloped, but they kinda work for me due to one note times 6=6 notes. They also have somewhat of a threatlevel due to being in the winning position towards the start of the game. Their bigger downfall is how this is kinda not earned at all. The plot gave them the power by Sonic having to kick the controlitem away and them just using Eggman's invention that they had no part in. They feel more like reactionary villains than active ones, even in the japanese localisation.
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Infinite:
He is weak. What? I am supposed to elaborate? Fine. Alright, so, what is his issue? Well, the opposite of the deadly 6 and chaos combined in a way. He is defined as a character and has a tangible backstory, but he is kinda overdefined in a bad way. We have literally three originstories for him that don't retcon each other but are supposed to be in a timeline with each other...and it all goes to heck from there. Mainstory claims that his origin is when he was recreated by eggman, episode Shadow claims that his origin was when he decided to put on the mask and the comics claims that his origin as infinite comes from Eggman using the phantom ruby to force his mercenarygang to work for him with the ruby.
These tellings are just completely incompatible with each other and destroy each other. If Infinite is the same person he was before being remade, why does the maingame pretend like this was a sad thing? If he was forced to work for eggman, why does Eggman yell at him in episode Shadow like they were financially hired? Why would Eggman even be ok with him taking this random mask and acting allmighty if the mercenaryband were basically his slaves in a way? Why does the maingame hammer in the fact that Infinite should care more about his friends, when his friends failed him before? Not to mention, why doesn't his issue with being called weak relate to his friends being killed by Shadow? The way it is written, it relates more to his pride being hurt, instead of being a case of "I wasn't even strong enough to avenge you all".
They also just made him dumb to make him and eggman look more menacing, like forces was an edgy fanfic of people who bandwagon that the 2000s were good, without understanding the games. Infinite gets two big Ws against Sonic and only gets a draw against the avatar because of him just.... leaving before the fight resolves. Why doesn't he just storm the resistancebase and kill them before they become powerful enough to beat him? It makes no sense. Not to mention him being betrayed by Eggman because why not.
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Extra entry-Zavok in team Sonic Racing:
What can I say? He sucks. Not even the japanese localisation can make sense of why he is here, because he literally has no reason to be. He is just as bad at racing as eggman according to the story, so he cannot possibly expect to assert dominance. So it has to do with monitary gain or a deal of eggman giving him robotics to control, rite? No, story directly states that Eggman doesn't pay him. Maybe it is some kind of masterplan to team up so that they can kill Sonic? Well, no...they are just after the energy generator and Zavok somehow kinda leaves the plot after he kidnaps dodonpa for the talking egg. Also, where is the cruelty he should have? He is barely even the same character as in Lost world, and that is kinda sad, as he was already kind of a failure there.
(2/2)
Dude Solaris/Mephiles was just a puddle of black ooze, he couldn't do anything but move around on the ground, Solaris got a physical form from Shadow's shadow when the Sceptor first releases him, he was able fly around and affect the robots but could not do anything without a form.
My favourite Villain is Mephiles/Iblis/Solaris.
The thing is that they need to stop being like Mario and make unique villains.
mario used to have good villains.
You are just taking all my thoughts in to one video :D.
The only thing to note about the deadly six is that the green one is hot
I love he doesnt talk about Eggman because he is always a very good villian. But i think Game Eggman should be more similar to İDW Eggman
I actually think the more comedic Eggman makes sense. Think about it, from Adventure to Unleashed he's basically always being betrayed by some godlike being. Maybe he's going through a form of depression, manifesting as incompetence and lack of motivation. He knows things are going to go south, so why bother?
@@Blu_Moon_VA he isn't really like that in adventure to unleashed he's more so a guy who brings apon godlike beings
@@windandfireproductions5358 Oh, what I was trying to say was that the events of Adventure to Unleashed explain his behavior in the games after that point.
I also think it wouldn't hurt to have villains that directly challenge other characters besides Sonic.
An old favorite villain for me was Enerjak, who was a villain towards Knuckles. Another one was Mammoth Mogul who was used in later chapters to manipulate conflict without being directly involved. Also was connected to Silver as a mentor in his time.
In the newer comic series we get alternate villains like Mimic. Not a global threat but someone who has scarred a new ally like Whisper.
Dr. Starline is probably going to be a new opposition to Robotnik creating a possible three way conflict.
Infinite is my favorite villain but my mans has three separate backstories with weak executions. The writers didn't know what to do with him.
*How to fix him.*
1. Established his backstory. Have his backstory center around the theme "It's a dog eat dog world" sense he's a mercenary.
2. Show why he's obsessed with strength. As a mercenary, he was taught that without strength, you are nothing. That the world is a dark & cruel place to people who are weak.
3. Have him form a relationship with his squad. Show that he he thought of them as a family & every decision he made was for them to be safe, even if he disagrees with the people who hired him.
4. Continue as Episode Shadow.
5. Show the parallel with him & Shadow. Shadow despises the world in Adventure 2 because it was cruel to him. Have him form a brother like relationship where Shadow understands Infinite's situation & wants to help him because they are just alike.
6. Sonic Forces but Infinite has more screen time & utilize his abilities to it's greatest extent, making him one of the op villains in the series.
7. Nerf Infinite like a fighting game patch note by cracking his Phantom Ruby. The Phantom Ruby would still be broken but he won't have unlimited energy & it would have to recharge.
(1/2)
Everyone is mentioning Mephiles but a truly underrated force for Sonic is Merlina. She has all the makings of a good villain (and I say that loosely because she's more just an Antagonist) she's threatening, has a mysterious aura to her that was alluded to very early in Black Knight, and her betrayal was warranted not from a lust of power, but from fear of death which probably hits home for a lot more people than the average person may think
But the main thing that I find pretty great about her as a character is her duality with Sonic in terms of ideals. She wants to save/change the world as she believes it should be, while Sonic is seeming the bad guy for letting the world she inhabited eventually end
Merlina is emblematic of my issues with black knight. It is just selfdefeating. She reasonably would have the nessesary abilities and powers to strategically alter fate if she really wanted to, but instead her actions just kinda destroyed the kingdom because yes. I don't even understand what her plan was. What was the dark end supposed to do that would make the kingdom eternal?
@@lpfan4491 that's one of those things that I honestly think they just didn't really go into enough. Like the idea of her obtaining the scabbard and getting all of that power is just what you needed to know, not necessarily how she planned on doing it, just as how she purposely withheld info from Sonic for when she told him to get the scabbard from the king
If anything, I would make the assumption that her fucking her plan up is kind of what Sonic was trying to tell her. It's not her choice to change fate for the entire world, no matter what the intentions were
I like Zavock and Infinite.
I understand the design aspect about Zavaoc, he and another character of the Deadly six could use a redesign. Funny thing, I have a character that somewhat shares a color palette similar to him.
Sonic forces needs some patchwork to the game AND story. Infinite had a lot of potential, I really think they could have done something with him.
Also since Blaze exists, (at least in her original cannon) she came from another dimension.
Say Eggman fails at trying to faze sonic out of existence and he teleports Zavock, Zaz, (I think, the pink/purple one.) and their sister to Sonic's dimension.
They're confused by the different environment, separated, as the three of them try to find their way back to one another and a way to go back home.
We could see Zavock trying to use his smarts to the best of his ability in a foreign place. Zaz struggling without his siblings. And their sister who winds up on Robotnik's side.
They might make friends or enemies. Perhaps they all end up on different sides? Interesting idea for conflict.
Infinite had so much Potential but you know... The writers... He could’ve been a great villain.
My favorite and top 5 Sonic the Hedgehog villains besides Dr. Eggman
1. Mephiles the Dark
2. Metal Sonic
3. Chaos (He's not a bad guy but he's a misguided chao that became a villain with his anger and sadness)
4. Biolizard
5. Dark Gaia
Edit: I agree i do see the potential of Deadly Six and Infinite being great villains but sadly they become wasted villains that weren't treated well
my list is the same as yours. also here's my top 3 least favorite sonic villans
3 infinite
2 deadly six
1 classic sonic
TBH i am a dr. Eggman purist he is the only true villain ...... and it makes my heart cry that they made him a fucking joke in sonic boom ...... we need satam dr. Eggman
Lord Unhold I disagree I think eggman was always a joke example: he was a joke in adventures of sonic the hedgehog too which came before satam plus his canceled design was literally him wearing pajamas . I like serious eggman man better but I don’t mind him being a joke sometimes.
@@jdawson7877 If we can count Chaos then Shadow should be the best villain.
@@slwoo7432 No, he wasn't always a joke. Check out Sonic Adventure 2, SatAM, CD and even Unleashed.
I'm fully aware that the deadly six didn't have that much thought put into them, but they've got a lot of potential. Sonic doesn't have any ensemble villains like the akatsuki in naruto to the ginyu force in dragon ball for example, and I think that they could fill in that role nicely. The writers need to flesh them out more, give them backstories, make them interact with each other more often, show how they complement each other, make them feel more like a team. Expand on the lore of the lost hex, zomom and zavok mention there being more zeti, show that there are more out there. Were told that Master Zik is the founder of the deadly six, how did he do it, how did Zavok become their leader, how did they recruit the other members, make everything feel more connected and alive. They have beef with both Sonic and Dr Eggman, they can do something with that. Eggman literally enslaved them and in recent games you just Have Zavok and sometimes Zazz willingly be Eggman's lackeys when it doesn't make sense for them to be working for him or split up like they are. I do like their designs but they should do more to make them fit in, like making them animals that haven't been officially used yet or try and make their current designs blend better with other elements of sonic. I hate seeing this neat group of characters handled so poorly when they could do so much more to make them interesting because I genuinely like them and want to see them become something more than cutouts
Infinite in wrestling terms got sandbagged as a threatening villain because of Episode Shadow.
The Deadly Six and Infinite suffer mostly wasted potential, I think for the Zeti should go through a in universe redesign and amp up the Deadly part of them, round out their personalities, for instance, Zeena could be the Fem Fatale who is vain and selfish wanting anything she sets her sights on as hers.
Claiming all she sees beautiful as her property and destroy anyone who will try stop her.
She can also be sadistic as she reval in joy of seeing people in pain mentally and physically.
Her weakness is her vanity, due to being so wrapped up in herself that she will drop her guard.
She can see Amy and Rouge as particular rivals, disgusted of their willingness to do "GOOD AND SELFLESS THINGS!"
So basically, that would be SA2 rouge, except really violent. Sounds good.
@@lpfan4491 That's what I was thinking when I read it too. X^D
Also, "Willingness to do 'GOOD AND SELFLESS THINGS'"? Since when did Rouge have that?
@@ChaosRayZero Technically since the end of SA2. Even tho she ended up using the team as a way to discover what eggman's treaure is, she really didn't even need it. She only founded it to help Shadow and Omega. And then past that point, she rarely did anything shady anymore. Well, except trying to steal the nonexistent tournamentprice in free riders.
8:22 dude it's called overused for a reason. If something is used too much then it's regarded as a negative thing. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. If something is overused, it's a problem.
I think the Deadly 6 has potential but I think they fall in a category of stereotypes. Maybe if they were given some more depth like details on their race, why they are a team, what happened to their planet, and why do they want to conquer earth?...they could've been better. And Infinite looked great on paper but his execution and motive to be the strongest was like something out of a cliche Dbz story. I think they should bring him back with his own army the Jackal Squad and utilizing the Phantom ruby to be on top of the world.
The IDW comics have created amazing villains so far and gave the Zeti more personality.
The spin-off, Bad Guys, has a lot of great moments with the Sonic villains in the spotlight.
Sometimes I feel like the only way we can get good writing is if we do it ourselves.
Maybe the fans will create something that'll one day outshine Sonic Team so much that they can't ignore it and have to change their ways.
(No, Sonic Mania doesn't count, that was 2D Sonic, that's easy to do.)
Also, awesome video, sonicsta!
Love your knowledge of the Sonic Lore and the way you tackled this subject so well!
Just a hunch. I feel like the deadly six are about to be retired cause the comics are building up for them to be the big villain in their push to 50. Not to mention that Sega is caving a lot to fan pressure lately
The problem with villains in new Sonic stories isn't even necessarily that the villains aren't good. It's that the stories that they are in are poor and/or has no resonant theme underpinning the process of their defeat.
Zavok and the Zeti from a writing standpoint aren't even bad. They are creatures that want revenge against invaders on their land and work together. It's actually interesting having the bad guys be the ones that are a team/family. The problem is that dynamic is never challenged nor does it challenge the heroes. Their world and their place in ti is also not properly developed.
Infinite is a former mercenary squad leader who valued them, and who for reasons we are not sure of came to loathe the current state of the world and has a complex with feeling weak and inadequate. From there his defeat at the hands of Shadow and loss of his squad cause shim to be broken psychologically and replace that void with an alter ego fueled by a sense of new found power to assert his dominance as a cope.
It's good stuff, it's just Infinite is heavily undercut by the fact the game never shows how he and Eggman impact the world. The theme of Friendship and Psychological trauma and the difficulty in overcoming it is there, but it isn't set up adequately to be resonant. We never see Infinite's relationship with his Squad or his existing trauma in regards to feeling weak or inadequate.
Basically the villains are not properly developed or they don't have any pathos.
I think the character design thing is just kind of a non-issue. Same with having forms. If the characters made people feel something more profound people wouldn't care, but because they don't they ar left to fall on their design.
I wish they will bring back infinite, I like how he is another mobiean against sonic, his powers are pretty cool too, they should try to justify why he is against sonic and the world if he ever comes back
No
Mephiles has to have been one of my favorites. As for the 6? Sega, please stop bringing them back. I really doubt people really want to see them return. They were really shallow and very forgettable.
The reason(s) lnfinite is a bad villain is not just because of his half-baked origin or the fact he isn't a threat. He has unnecessarily high loyalty to Eggman. My headcanon for Infinite pre-Phantom Ruby is Jackal Squad was a ragtag group of mercs trying to put themselves on the map ergo making a devil's deal being under Eggman's employ. When Shadow slaughtered all of Jackal Squad save Infinite, lnfinite had every right to drop the idea of working for Eggman. But no. He let himself become an empty vessel for the PR. After acquiring the Phantom Ruby, does he take revenge on Shadow? No. He goes right to Sonic.
Even though l have a love/hate relationship with Infinite given he encapsulates a jackal's nature, he doesn't encompass the nature of a good Sonic villain. Not to mention he doesn't even push the Phantom Ruby to its limits because he's so broken over his battle(if you can call it that) with Shadow.
I feel like the biggest problem is that their not written well but I'm not that against them coming back because I feel like the series needs more recurring villains besides eggman
1:07 "It's all cool if we disagree."
Just want to acknowledge that it's awesome you stated that up front. People often give a "this is just my opinion" disclaimer, but not enough of them emphasize that *they're okay with other people having different opinions.*
most give a "it's just my opinion, but if you disagree with me you have the wrong opinion.
This thumbnails are getting better and better.
I was waiting for this one! Imma check it out, gimme a sec.
To me Mephiles and Black Doom will always be peak Sonic lore villains.
You made a video about Sonic villains without mentioning best villain Mephiles...My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined...
Honestly I don’t see what’s so great about him other than being creepy
@@pugman9672 do you mean don't see?
His writing isn't the best either. If he wanted to rejoin with Iblis and become Solaris again, why didn't he just go back in time where the monster was born and fuse with him there? Not to mention that he killed Sonic by himself, so why does he even need Silvers help in the first place?
@@PlahaKumar I think Mephiles just likes to mess with people, he is really manipulative plus he is half of a god that controls time and space, he can just go back and join Iblis but what would be more fun? That or trying to get a desperate kid to kill a loved hero? When that fails he just easily does that himself. He likes to see people in turmoil.
I see him like a bored evil god in a way.
@@iblobliboo8501 Interesting observation.
I mean, Sonic Adventure 2's main villain was more the vengeful will of Dr. Gerald Robotnik. Biolizard was more the mindless weapon he set to go off after he died.
That said, my favorite Sonic villain is probably Merlina, just been we spent a good chunk of the game becoming friends with her before finding out that she was behind everything due to her despair over the apparently inevitable fall of Camelot, and Sonic resolving the issue by defeating her badass transformation by having his talking sword undergo a badass transformation in order to trigger an even more badass Golden transformation in Sonic himself, to what it's probably my favorite badass final battle theme in the franchise (whose lyrics seem to be an argument between Sonic and Merlina, but one where either one could sing either half since they are both supremely confident in their abilities and both see the other as a villain who is trying to force their way of life upon themselves). And then the two of them have a quiet conversation with one another where Sonic essentially tells her that life is precious because death is inevitable.
I believe the deadly Six like zavok has potential people hating them i understand people opinions it because overboard when someone says he doesn't look like he belongs cause of his appearance the series had a monster that was a prototype of the ultimate life form & he looked like he didn't belong in Sonic I believe A character like Zavok has potential in the future same as Infinite or he will end up like mephiles not be seen again
I want the Deadly Six to be great villains, but due to the lackluster writing, they are just kinda bland which is really disappointing since I liked Zavok in Lost World.
Haven’t watched the vid yet, but honestly, I don’t know WHAT people have against the Deadly Six. I think they’re really cool and entertaining. Zavok is my favorite Sonic villain.
I love how tails is scared of chaos with no chaos emeralds.
I really wish they could bring back characters like Eggrobo, Metal Knuckles, Tails Doll, Fang, Bean, Bark, Honey and make them recurring villains in the series. All those characters fit better as rivals for Sonic and his friends than Zavok and the deadly six.
7:48 He was in Sonic Generations as well, but at least the time travel plot made his presence more justified.
As said in the community tab I like Zavok he has a nice desgin to me and I feel like IDW did the heavy lifting to make him better and it's why I like the character is cause IDW did a bit more than the games .
FFS Stop bringing up those shitty comics. One, they recycled the SAME plot from SLW, only swapping Eggman with Snively the Platypus. Two, they cranked up on making him a Bowser rip-off by babysitting his moron underlings. Three, no, repeating the same plot of him stealing assets from someone else doesn't make him scarier. It's just lazy.
Agree with most of your points but
Think Zarvoks Design fits in (strong + intimitating + not stupid), the rest .........
And really like Infinite but wished he would return or was used better
11:22 I like how he defeated the robots to the beat.
Everything you said is spot on. Although the best villains made in the new era are Orbot and Cubot. They give off a Scratch and Grounder vibe and it makes me smile. Lol
#1 Thing Wrong with Modern Sonic villains
They're written by Pontac and Graff
Rise of Lyric and Mania weren’t written by them, and they suffer the same problem.
@@austinreed7343 Boom is a separate continuity that really only failed because of rushed and last second story revisions for the cartoon, Mania is a Classic story that honestly doesn't need the depth this video touches on. Your point is moot. I'm always correct.
also lets take a moment to give a shoutout to erazor djinn, who despite appearing in a spinoff is still one of my top ten villians (overall in my top 3 final sonic battles)
6:38 Actually, I personally think Zavok looks more like one of those Amazing Island "Preset" monsters. I forgot the creature's name, but there's one that totally looks like a re-color of him _over a decade before he existed._
If you've never heard of Amazing Island, it doesn't matter- just look up the U.S. box art. The monster I'm talking about is on the front, behind the kid, on the right.
I disagree with the Deadly Six on the point of they're ability to control robots which would include Metal, Omega, and Gemeral, and Zavok possibly being able to give Super Sonic a run for his money, but the 2010s were stuck with horrible writers that didn't even know about the series they were working on and SEGA scrambling to make up for 06 despite already doing that with Unleashed and Colors and Generations. Even then in the Wii U/PC version of Lost World it's implied they died while the 3DS version has them flying off, so they're continued appearance means the Handheld one is cannon. Infinite was just a clutter mess, they wanted to copy the Adventure era but didn't want to go all the way, Infinite was a robot and a mercenary beforehand, it was lack of commitment and not thought out. And with horrible writers and Malicious Mistranslation and additions that were never they're like the 6 month thing and Tails simply being missing instead of insane. The Deadly Six, Infinite, and Roger were all done dirty.
I mean yeah sure I don't like the Deadly six, except for Zavok and Master Zik. He would've been better if Lost World was a completely original game. He is like the closest thing we got out of Mephiles. They are both demons (one is a demon from the Dr. Faust mythology and the other is an Oni) who will sacrifice everything and manipulate everyone to achieve there goals. And yeah... I think Zavoks design would've been better, but I think he has cool looks good. And wouldn't call him ill-fitting since we have a God of Destruction and God of Sun who like they belong to a Final Fantasy game and a Space Satan who likes it came out of a Devil May Cry game.
Infinite is the biggest disappointment in sonic history but if i had to say my favorite is dark gaia
Me: Totally agree with you concerning the Deadly Six. Wrote a fanfic set directly after Lost World, and they were not even mentioned but briefly in chapter one... as mere Zeti.
Also Me: Writing a fanfic where Infinite is the primary villain, set during the infamous six month time skip in Forces, sitting here now being completely unsatisfied with your explanation of why Infinite is an underwhelming character. I was hoping for better constructed reasons than "He's literally worthless." It would have been far more interesting to hear your opinion why you thought this way.
If Infinite cannot take over the real world (Sonic's world, and Earth/human world). He will take over Null Space, cyberspace, and virtual reality instead.
infinite has potential yo be a good villain, he even has a pretty threatening power. it just how he was handled that makes it trashy
Did you read his backstory ?
@@sonicthehedgehog1606 yeah, it wasnt too bad, i liked it
TBH i am a dr. Eggman purist he is the only true villain ...... and it makes my heart cry that they made him a fucking joke in sonic boom ...... we need satam dr. Eggman
To be fair he was a joke in AoSTH too, and that series is widely beloved. The problem with long-running franchises in general (not just Sonic) that aren't afraid to "take things in a new direction" with their alternate-continuities is you get some people who like the funnier, light-hearted incarnations and others who like the more serious, darker tones. Then you get people who prefer one so much that they think the other shouldn't exist...
Btw- in SatAM & AoSTH his name was *Dr. Robotnik.* You can argue the Japanese video game incarnation was technically always Eggman, but _both of those cartoons were made in the U.S._ before his American name changed back to Eggman.
I disagree that Infinite "lacks the ability to be a threat". With him at Eggman's side, Eggman came extremely close to winning, something that Eggman has never done (outside of the SatAM and Archie continuities, but those aren't the ones we're talking about). In the hands of a greater villain, Infinite absolutely dominates the world and is *very much* a threat. However, much like his decent backstory is hampered by its poor presentation, Infinite's threat level is hampered by the fact he has to listen to Eggman. Honestly, I wish they had gone the Sonic Heroes route and had him rebel against Eggman instead of listening to someone he very clearly does not agree with.
I'd also argue the Deadly Six were handled about as well as they could be. They're pretty scuffed in concept, so there's not much you could do to fix them (especially if you're Pontac/Graff).
Thus is the curse of being a modern Sonic villain, I'm afraid. Either you're great in concept and botched in execution, like Infinite, or executed extremely well but with a bad concept, like the Deadly Six.
Tbh I really like the deadly six I feel they don’t get to much credit. Yes I know they’re poorly written, but hey at least the IDW comics are making them way better characters!
As for infinite I really like him as well his my favorite sonic villain. But they need to give him more character because in the game sonic forces, he’s another edgy and angry sonic villain and he really needs more character to him.
Agree
@@ethanissupercool7168 thanks man at least someone has the same opinions about these villains.
@@pixeldinodude4899 Fuck nah. The Sadly Dicks are a bunch of garbage Koopalings rip-offs, they're one note, they look goofy, those GARBAGE comics literally recycled the plot from SLW only with Snively The Platypus instead of Eggman, and cranked up Zavok's Bowser papa babysitter side. If you call them "better characters" because of some god-awful comics, you're lost.
@@ponthackslayer3339 I don’t like the argument that these characters look goofy because I think they look really cool. They also came from the lost hex so they have to look unique, but I still think they have potential for the sonic franchise if SEGA hires good writers for the games in my own opinion.
@@pixeldinodude4899 Bruh, you don't like it simply because it's true and makes your opinion looks bad lol
Honestly I do like the deadly six but I can agree that the are not really a threat to be honest Mephlis the Dark needs to return be cause he is the most sinister villain I've ever seen
I wish Shadow could have new enemies and rivals for future Sonic the Hedgehog video games, comic books, and TV shows:
1.) "A female sword fighter" similar to *Karai* (from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles), *Rose Wilson/Ravager* (from DC Universe), *Blade* (from Azure Striker Gunvolt), and *Mara Jade Skywalker* (from Star Wars: Expanded Universe/Legends)
2.) "Two Mysterious Siblings" similar to *Prometheus and Pandora* (from Megaman ZX series)
3.) "An evil counterpart" similar to *Mephiles the Dark* (from Sonic 06), *Infinite* (from Sonic Forces), *Eclipse the Darkling* (from Archie Sonic comics), *Dark Samus* (from Metroid Prime series), *SA-X* (from Metroid Fusion), *Omega Zero* (from Megaman Zero series), and *Luuke/Evil Luke clone* (from Star Wars: Expanded Universe/Legends)
*Hint:* Just to try something different for Shadow (character), and to keep away from Dr. Eggman, Sonic and his friends.
Unfortunately i dont think Sega will take the risk of makin Spin-Off stories of other main sonic characters again (like Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Silver and Blaze) if they already have problems whit their main character's own world and continuity, then i dont see them writing stories for other characters in this ever changing and inconsistent "Modern Sonic Canon.
atleast not for now.
This is always "Rouge the Bat's" fault. If she never found Shadow and E-123 Omega in Dr. Eggman's secret base (from Sonic Heroes), none of this would ever happen.
@@kunlesanders Well if it wasnt for her. probably Neo Metal Sonic wouldnt have been defeated, not to mention the Black Arms Invasion in SHTH, they would have destroyed everyone, not even Sonic or Eggman could have standed on their way.
and even if we go way back to SA2 if Eggman didnt research on Project Shadow, Gerald would have succeded to destroy the world whit the Eclipse Cannon.
Shadow and his story are a key component for Sonic's Timeline, too bad most of the people seem to oversee that.
Shadow doesn't know Maria's legacy anymore (Give them a chance to be happy.)
Because Rouge was telling lies and hiding secrets to Shadow, and pretending that nothing happened. She treated Shadow as a puppet (a slave), and turned him into an edge lord for some reason. She doesn't care. (Between Sonic Heroes - present) Then and now Sonic and his friends are still bullying, hurting, abusing, and turning against him forever. And nothing changes.
Now I understand why Sega was telling the truth in the first place. Shadow and Rouge aren't friends, family, and allies. Because they are different.
@@kunlesanders What the heck is wrong with your edgy fanfic?
My favorite Sonic villains are Lyric the Last Ancient and Boom Eggman! I keep forgetting about the others unless someone brings it up..
The deadly six is honestly what happens when you FORCE someone to create a character. Their personalities are so damn generic and their designs are stupid. (Because you can exactly tell their personalities by just looking at them) people tend to compare zavol with bowser and I don't think that's fair. Because bowser is actually a character, zavok just feels like your generic villain character, there's nothing that sticks out about him. Basically. He's the opposite of bowser.
My favorite Sonic villain is Doctor Ivo Eggman Robotnik himself, the main antagonist of the entire Sonic series.
Except he got dumped big time and he's a pathetic wimpy clown who can't achieve anything, isn't treated like a threat anymore, and feels like a third wheel. Especially in Forces.
The Hard-Boiled Heavies and Boom game villains fall under this too. Though yeah, the HBH can be excused due to the game’s deliberately silent narrative (and they reform at the end).
Thanks for making this video..I might take some advice from you..And maybe create a great villain
My problem with most Sonic villains is their motivations. Most of them devolve into just being weapons used by Eggman for his own ulterior motives with little of their own agency. And whenever they do have their own motivations, they don't really go beyond "be evil" from what I can tell. My favorite antagonists in the series have always been the ones that have their own reasonings for doing the things that they do.
Knuckles was motivated by wanting to protect his home. Since he had spent so much time in isolation, he was easily tricked by Eggman into thinking that Sonic was out to destroy Angel Island. Sure, he's being used by Eggman to a degree, but most of what Knuckles does throughout Sonic 3 is through his own volition. Shadow wasn't manipulated by Eggman, but was rather working with him towards a common goal. Not only that, but Shadow was pushed towards that goal through the deeply personal connection of avenging his friend. Erazor Djinn wanted to rewrite the story of the Arabian Nights because he was tired of being relegated to the genie in the lamp, granting everybody else's wishes except his own. Merlina wanted to create an everlasting world because she was devasted by the prospect of ruin that her kingdom would fall under.
For me, a good Sonic antagonist needs to have a motivation beyond destroying the world and being evil. If that's all they're going to do with a villain, then they might as well just replace that villain with Eggman.
a villain i notice people not really mentioning is mephiles. while yes he didn't have to be all convoluted in his quest to reunite with iblis he did all that because he wanted to cause as much destruction and pain as possible. i enjoy villains that have a good reason for being evil in the first place but honestly its also nice to just have a villain who is just chaotic and evil because they want to be. and that's exactly why mephiles does what he does.
why just fuse with iblis immediately when he could manipulate a naive kid into killing someone that elise held dearly and causing her to finally release iblis? its because there is no fun in that. its much more amusing to have that particular chain of reactions go off then just time traveling andmerging with iblis from the get-go. sonic was never his target, sonic was simply just a means to an end.
why attempt at manipulating and playing mind games with shadow instead of simply just killing him immediately? because he hates shadow and hates that he has no control over him. he breaks shadow's spirit first, controls him, and then just kills him. he just fails because shadow has his friends and his resolve.
this really is what makes me enjoy mephiles's character tbh. sonic 06 was rushed and maybe if sega had given it more time it would've been a cool game since the writing for mephiles and team dark (this is the best shadow has been portrayed since)
Not only is Zavok on Eggman's team he's a complete joke who acts as nothing as a jobber sidekick who fails at literally everything he attempts and gets insulted by everybody in the cast without so much as attempting to fire back or defend himself. At the very least in Lost World I got the sense he was prideful and wasn't entirely a brute but had a real intellect behind his actions, even if poorly written.
At first I was annoyed Zavok was in the game over other character, but by the end of the story I just felt bad for him. More than that it had to suck for people who actually like Zavok because they just had to sit there and watch him get trashed on by the whole cast and reduced to a shriveled husk of what he was in Lost World.
I'll always like Infinite and I'm still hoping to this day that he'll return, but I can also agree that they did him dirty in Sonic Forces. He really should have been the main villain. There was literally no reason he should have listened to Eggman when the former could have one shot him at any point.
7:45 And in _Sonic Battle,_ where the story excuse was no more than, "When that [Death Egg] battleship appeared, the 'estuary' [at Holy Summit] froze over and 'Chaos' appeared... He only shows himself in times of great crisis," shoved in during the last chapter and it was pretty clear that fight was just an excuse to unlock Chaos as a playable character and/or have Emerl copy his moves.
Some of his combat is cool enough I'm willing to forgive it though. =^p