As someone who’s played guitar on worship team for 20+ years, it’s so much better now playing with click tracks and loops. Everyone stays together thanks to the cues, the sound is more full and professional sounding, and it helps gel newer players with experienced players on the team.
@@sonofZeruiahplayin on click, meaning the team is using metronome along with their IEM. Well for loops, are pre-recorded tracks that are played (on tape) while on "live" context.
How Great is Our God (faster/funkier version by Todd Galberth) Freedom by Jesus Culture (faster/ funkier version by Harvest Music) Same God/No One Higher by Pentecostals of Alexandria and we ended up mixing it with He Won’t Fail by Todd Galberth We tend to go the middle ground between CCM and Gospel. It’s a pretty sweet spot when mixing things up and getting out of that “clone” kind of feeling. Every church has their own unique sound of worship. It’s up to the Worship Leader/Pastor to dig in prayer and find it for their church.
For all you worship friends watching, Ryland is my worship pastor and he is the real deal. I know it can be hard to know who is legit on social media, but trust me he is the best! Great video as always ✨
There is no such thing as the "best" in worship. The focus should be completely removed from worship pastors and toward God. When we start a discussion about different aspects of "worship" in the sense that is presented in this video, we are in danger of compartmentalizing the act of worship in its purest form into a performance art. I don't want to sound judgmental, but when you grow up in a third-world country and experience worshiping God under uncertainty of persecution, "worship" in the US does not come even close to what I could be. For instance, we are limiting God with our self-imposed amount of time allotted to "worship."
Only King Forever - A Build My Life - D I Love You Lord - D Promises - A Come Thou Fount - C Also, I totally resonate with the “curator” thought. I think I’m wired in a similar way, finding it a lot easier to collect ideas from various avenues and bringing them together into the context of Ministry and member experience. Keep it up, bro!
It amazes me how many talented musicians there are in the local church! So many volunteers that God has blessed with excellent skill, talent, and heart
Ooh interesting thoughts, I’ve just come back from playing guitar at a local conference where I reached “worship singularity” - a bunch of songs all blurred into one, riffs and lead lines started getting confused and I embarrassed myself frequently - so this is something I’ve been reflecting on a lot personally….! A couple of thoughts: 1) there’s far more stylistic diversity across generations and cultures globally than what is currently reflected in Western evangelical/charismatic churches, we can do more to honour a variety of expressions of beauty; 2) this is an emerging conversation in global missions, thinking about the cultural creative implications of our corporate worship and how the Gospel moves globally (look up ethnodoxology for more on this); 3) by resorting to backing tracks, we constrain our worship standard to that of professional Nashville musicianship, which can override the unique creative life God has embedded into our church communities. It really doesn’t make much sense that my community in Australia would sound musically identical to a Nashville church…! None of this is intended to say “STOP WE’RE DOING IT WRONG” but to prompt thoughtful engagement with our culture of worship that feels so homogenised right now.
Sunday list: God is for us - Cityalight His mercy is more - Shane & Shane Whom shall I fear - big Chris Tomlin --- Who is like the Lord - Passion My worth is not in what I own - Aaron Keys -- How deep the Father's love for us - Stuart Townend -- Here is love vast as - William Rees
Ryland! Donovan here! Long time no see! To me it comes down to the same question of cover band versus original music. As a musician who isn’t quite so jaded that he wouldn’t play Sweet Home Alabama at PJ’s down the street I also don’t think there’s a problem with playing songs your congregation really likes! That being said - I always wanted to be involved in writing for church music - just nobody has ever valued me as a songwriter there. Out here in the rest of the world I’ve been asked to write songs for other folks and have loved it. It’s just a risk for a worship leader to play original songs that aren’t there with a tried and true hit machine churning out the goods.
i'm only a third of the way through the video at this point, but thought I'd go ahead and comment this: one of the big complaints i hear from the older generations in churches is the lack of familiarity they have with the modern praise and worship music that's out there. They, of course, mostly, grew up with what you could call homogenized hymnals in their churches, most churches all singing the same songs. Through that, they grew to know and love those songs. If we're constantly creating new, the congregation, it could be argued, will be constantly chasing behind, not knowing the songs and not able to fully let go and let God during worship sets. Having heard the songs for years and knowing them without thinking about it surely allows people to freely worship. Obviously, not everybody has a hard time absorbing new material, but this is just one consideration from this puzzle. EDIT: Haha i guess i should have waited. you're now touching on the same hymnal comments I made. :D EDIT2: Woops, I left out our worship set! Praise (Elevation), Holy Forever, The Blessing and an altar call of a shortened version of the Blessing.
While I’m in a rural country church that still primarily has a more traditional format… that’s just it - you know exactly what I am talking about. If you go to a traditional service (assuming you’ve got knowledge beforehand of how a traditional service progresses, of course), you know what to expect. These services are often planned using a lectionary… so countless churches across multiple denominations often use the same Scripture on a given Sunday. There will be announcement, prayer requests, 3 or 4 congregational hymns accompanied by piano (and/or/organ if fortunate enough), maybe a song by the choir or a special solo, maybe a responsive reading, Scripture, and a sermon of some kind… It wasn’t until the contemporary takeover that there was much individuality, if you will. However as time has gone by, there is now a standard for contemporary services as well. They all have TVs, some kind of band, generally perform several songs more so at once than spread throughout the service and then the message. Songs chosen are the popular ones and (generally) the newer ones due to there being no written/notated music for the congregation to attempt to follow. Sure, they may include an older hymn from time to time, but it probably also includes a copyrighted bridge. The problem is not that churches seem to be echoing each other in style or format, the problem is that many churches do not have their priorities correct and/or are more concern about filling the room rather than speaking the Biblical truth. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a great tech crew with good equipment. However, if you’re so distracted by your job during the service, did you actually attend ‘church’? The same can go for music - Whether you have a world class, million dollar pipe organ and $250k Steinway piano perhaps even with orchestra or you have a band with guitars and drums, what is most important is the content of the lyrics rather than the striven perfection of the performance, itself. Besides, if you look at it as a performance on a stage, you’re already wrong. And if people are too distracted by the music to actually participate in praising the Lord, that is also not good… when it becomes more so about people being entertained than being led which is much more common than anyone probably wants to admit. Also… the preaching. Perhaps your pastor/minister/preacher/leader, head honcho is a terrific orator (legitimately funny, speaks well, insightful), if he is more worried about the feelings of the congregation rather their souls and we’ll-being, he’s failed. Church is not for just a weekly pick-me-up. It is not for just building up the biggest Sunday morning (or evening or Saturday) club/concert where the pastor is the headliner. No! If a preacher is doing his job, he is going to offend someone eventually. The Bible is more important than feelings and personal beliefs… and that’s not popular, and many church organizations put more emphasis on trends and growth for the sake of growth than they do on actually preaching the word of God and bring light to this sinful world.
This past Sunday we sang... I Believe (Phil Wickham) Come Behold the Wondrous Mystery (Matt Boswell) In Christ Alone (Boyce Worship Collective) Christ the True and Better (Matt Boswell) Come Thou Fount (Aaron Keyes version)
I think a problem is that many churches are, by playing songs written and published by a specific few churches, contributing financially to ministries that are not what they are theologically aligned with, outright spreading false teaching, or are making very problematic and unethical decisions with the vast amounts of money they are making from songwriting and publishing. If your pastor wouldn't quote Kenneth Copeland in a positive way on a Sunday morning, thus giving approval to his teaching, why would your band play songs published by a church that actively endorses his ministry and aligns theologically with him? I think the part where we are letting pop music influence the worship culture of the church is dangerous, because many worship pastors are, knowingly or without much thought, sacrificing their theological and ethical principles for the sake of playing what's popular and fun. I think another possible issue is that because of the access and availability of resources, small local churches are greatly tempted to make sounding and looking like the big famous churches a priority rather than being content within their own ministry. It spreads a certain kind of covetousness into the very culture of our worship services- always pushing and striving to look and sound like something we aren't but wish we could be.
Here's my take. To avoid sounding like a clone on some of the songs. how about creating different renditions of the songs? How about playing them in different keys or approaching the songs? Upperroom has a different renditions of "Surrounded"? Leeland and Big Daddy Weave play "Lion And The Lamb" somewhat different. Me, I put both versions to together. The problem I see is people clone to sound right instead of sounding good. I try to bring a variation of approaches to our worship to get them away from sounding like everyone else. When worship teams want to clone others, disagreements and arguments appear and kills the spirit and unity of the team.
Couldn’t agree with you more! I like to think I add some variety 😂 I’m the only EG at my church so I always try to do a mix of rhythm and lead. When getting ready for a service I’ll pick and choose what to play and what I want to change. For example adding overdrive where there was none, changing a lead to a rhythm or rhythm to a lead, playing a melody either an octave up or down from the original, swelling chords instead of strumming them, combining different versions like you said, even choosing to not play at all in certain parts to create a different vibe. Little stuff like that to create a more unique approach. And our singers hardly sing any songs in their original keys so we also have that going for us lol. My gripe from a guitar point of view is how identical worship guitar tones have become, so many worship guitarists that all have identical gear with identical settings and hardly any variety or experimentation going on. Ultimate I know that the congregation is unaffected by it, but just from a musician point of view it’s kind of annoying when a new song comes out and I can pretty accurately guess what the guitars will sound like and what they’ll be doing.
Our set list: - Blessed Be Your Name (+ bridge of Love On Fire ) - Here Am To Worship - Build My Life - Holy Forever (+ spontaneous part) - You Are Holy (Isaiah 6) (was on the set list, but time was up)
House of the Lord Honey in the Rock Plead the Blood / Nothing but the Blood Goodness of God Working on creating a culture of creativity in our new church. We just introduced an original song co-written by myself and another worship pastor in the area. People received it very well and I think are open to singing original songs. Its encouraging. loved the different mixes you included in this video!
I have been in a church where they put WAY too much emphasis on making everything sound IDENTICAL to the record...I didn't like that. But as Ryland and my pastor and God's word says we need to seek wisdom in all things! I have heard churches play songs very very differently from the recording and it actually ends up being VERY distracting!
Definitely need a balance. We once had a leader that included all the recorded tracks in the mix along with what we were playing. That drove me crazy. I prefer to have no tracks playing. But I also do try to play things how they were recorded if there are interesting parts to play.
Back in the days of Hymns only it was said that churches usually sang only 25 of the same Hymns out of big Hymn Book. One thing I've noticed lately is that too many worship songs are sound the same. Our Worship Teams are volunteers so we don't have a lot of time to learn new. We do some but maybe 2 new songs a year.
So to bring your point a little higher @Ryland Russell - the thing I'm seeing that is homogenizing the worship music experience is that most churches including small ones are using multitracks, and the same ones at that, and since the art of musicianship is largely at a very basic level in the volunteer pool at most churches, the music director makes up for that by playing the multitracks. So many worship teams are so dependent on the tracks, and you have bass, drums, guitar and a piano (playing block chords) and then you have mass produced 15 channel tracks that everyone just plays over....and it seriously gets to a point where I wonder why there are even musicians trying to play on stage....just put singers up there and hit play. Fresh content is hard to create, but I think that's less important than being authentic in the musical experience. Easier said than done, it's tough to find volunteers that have high levels of musicianship in most churches. And then we are taking the Bethel, Elevation and Hillsong stuff and not critically looking at the theological issues in a lot of the songs. It's very performative as well....and everyone watches RUclips and thinks they need to copy that. Is it a problem? Yeah, and also....it's not new. I think churches should just focus on teaching the Word and being less worried about the performance. It takes time to build excellence...
I think there is a tendency for people to look at churches (I'll use the word loosely) that seem to have it all together, with large numbers and high quality production and think that if it is working for them then it might produce the same results if used somewhere else. But a lot of that is like cutting the ends off the ham when you cook it. A dark color scheme, for example, is often copied, but it only really works in church buildings that are little more than a metal shell. Someone probably started doing that because they wanted to make it look like something other than a barn or a warehouse. When it comes to songs, of course, most of us can't write a new song every week, so it makes sense to use the work that other people have done. But at the same time, you've got to know what your musicians are capable of. Tracks have their place, but I think you're better off using the talent that is there. You never want to be in a situation where people are hoping that the musicians don't show up, because the muscians on the tracks sound so much better.
We did: the Lord’s Prayer (it’s yours), Behold (then sings my soul) and 10,000 Reasons. I see what you mean, but I have no problem with doing other people’s songs. God had given them gifts that I don’t have. As long as the song is scripturally sound, congregational and musically well written and/or interesting. I’m all for it and yes, I think all three are important IMO. Thanks Ryland. Looking forward to your review on the dolly.
My friend and I had this discussion too. Even though he was ready to play things from Planetshakers, I definitely was not. My friend is okay with the homogenous worship because the writers made it simple for the average lay person. From my P.O.V. it seems like a major factor for worship songs being so similar is because CCM writers are intentionally thinking about the layperson who wants to play their song at church.
As a member of the worship team, my biggest hurdle is trying to convince the WL that we should cater our music to the congregation, not our personal preferences. I live in a semi-rural area and the churches I've played in and am currently playing in have rural cowboy congregations. I discussed this with one WL that liked to select what I called "Russian Techno Pop" music. He didn't think it conflicted with the congregation's tastes, said something about "the youth" (with worship it's always about "the youth" for some reason). At my current church gig, which has a large rural populace, the WL told me not to play country, said that country doesn't belong in worship, even if the song has a country vibe (the song was "Goodness of God"). I don't know if it's just my region, but does anybody else get this "no country" out of their WL? How about WL's that make it all about their musical tastes, everyone else can pound sand?
I think that you should try to involve songs that cater to your older and younger congregation, my church still does old songs, ones that the youth would complain about and say this song is too old. But in reality its what the elders grew up with so it shouldnt just be about what the youth needs but what the other age groups in the church "need" as well. recently we have been doing more modern ccm songs, but we still have that "old song" every now and then on our mid week services, now all the techno lights blazing songs made solely for hype, i wouldnt recommended, i will let you and your WL decide what fits in that category, but i will recommend artists draylin young and james wilson, but artists that have produced great music in their ablums, i encourage you to listen to them. Elevation hillsong and bethel have good songs, but its good to have variety. Now as far as country goes, I dont really know what that style really amplifies, we dont have that "type" of congregation at my church, but goodness of God doesnt really give me that vibe, i like of cece sings it and the atmosphere she goes for. Definitely a heartfelt worship moment song. Im sorry if that didn't answer your question, but thats my input (edit) I am a youh and the 2nd guitar player on our worship team, so this is inside input of my opinion, it might not be how everyone sees it.
Well don’t necessarily think about who it will cater too. An evangelist beamed Chris Donald said that we shouldn’t be “skipping” worshipping songs because it’s all worship. You’re there to lead the congregation in worship but first things is to minister to the Lord and then you could minister to the people
If they don’t want to change the music, I would just move to a different church. True Christians want to be corrected and are humble. The truth is, most young people go to church because it’s “fun”. I’m in college myself and there are not a lot of young ppl anymore who actually care about Jesus unfortunately and care more about pleasing men.
I wouldn't use the word Vibes as a lot of the world loves using that word too.. same with "energies" in the same sense. The word for that would either be Discernment, Atmosphere or presence instead of that. I read an article from a lady who's a psychic/medium who said she's really happy Christians now say the same lingo as she's done. Vibes means Vibrations and for her it means she senses demonic spirits etc. This is why we need to be careful and not fall for those words that became popular as well from the time people did drugs and those types of things in the 60s and 70s from the hippie times..
How about you make or lead worship on what God likes & loves since it's to Him, about Him & for Him. Ya might wanna study The Tabernacle in The Old Testiment. Man's personal preference is not even mentioned👀
It's an interesting topic in question. I've debated doing a discussion of it on my channel as well. What's funny about that article you mention is that the songs listed in CCLI top 100 are the songs only being report as in use by churches reporting to CCLI... So in some sense it's a bit skewed, but it is all very interesting; particularly when discussed thru the lens of the greater corporate congregational worship experience. Setlist 9/10/2023 @ Lake Ridge Bible, Dallas TX - As Loud As He Is Worthy His Mercy Is More Lord I Need You Come Thou Fount
So glad to see a fellow old guy on drums! I am fed right up with endless repetive turgid mid rangey toms dominating current drumming styles Whatever happened to playing open clean and simple with kick snare hats, 1 ride and 1 crash cymbal? I just do my own drumparts now even on the "hogemonous" songs But the bigger issue is we need to return to songs where the emphasis is on corporate singing where the collective voice of the church members is right at the top of the mix. Also every age group needs to be involved and included, so often when watching videos of elevation hill song etc, its always 20-30 sort of age group....no children, no elderly? Whats all that in aid of? very odd as if they dont exist
At our church, we sing a lot of Keith Getty/Stuart Townend, City Alight and Soverign Grace. I always try to open the service with a traditional hymm and also ensure we are including a song for children with meaningful theology. An open dialogue with the minister/teaching pastor has really kept me focussed on what is being taugt that week and stops me going crazy with the song choices 😂
My wife and I set ourselves the challenge of writing one hymn a year, run it by our minister and try it out for a couple of weeks in church. In 10 years, 3 or 4 have stuck so don't be discouraged if your first song doesn't work :)
same at my church. our goal is to sing songs (mostly hymns) that everyone can relate to. and it’s songs never about us and our struggles, but ACTUAL praise and worship. A lot of the modern songs now are just “Jesus saves me!”. All about us and never actually worship. It just depends on the setting. There are biblical songs that you can listen to at home, but not sing at church because not everyone will relate.
Christ Be Magnified (Cody Carnes) There’s No Condemnation (Simon Brading) Here Is Love (hymn) A Thousand Hallelujahs (Brooke Ligertwood) Psalm 92 (Paul Baloche)
This was balanced and fair. Thanks Ryland for what you do! I'm happy that neither side was critcized or put down. It's conversations like this that are needed for the church to become the complete body Jesus wants it to be!
I’ll take a stab at this from maybe a different perspective…. Maybe the reason we sound like “clones”. Is because we have somewhat created a Genre of our own. I for one am excited that we have this platform. I was around before the resources like multitracks loop community , worship tutorials etc..Where we not just all imitators back then? I mean did we all not sing hymns right from the back of the pew? If you ask me we are More creative then ever before and never before have I seen so many people fired up about singing worship songs! If we are using songs from 3 or 4 major players is that a bad thing?? I mean what resources did we have in the 90’s. Where we not all using Brentwood benson Choral arrangements. The exact written same ones? Now we can add parts take parts out etc.. if you ask me there has never been a more exciting time to be in worship ministry! I think this is a good thing and as Long as we are seeing people make decisions for Jesus does anything else really hold weight? Thanks again Ryland! Oh we played. Unstoppable God -Elevation Such an awesome God -Worship initiative. Echo Holy -Red Rocks and God you’re so Good -Passion
FIRST SERVICE * House of The Lord - Phil Wickham * This Is Our God - Phil Wickham * Be Praised - Maverick City + I Exalt Thee - Pete Sanchez * Battle Belongs - Phil Wickham SECOND SERVICE * This Is Living - Hillsong Y&F * Day of Victory - Rend Collective * Be Praised - Maverick City + You Are Worthy To Be Praised - Nigerian Traditionall * House of Miracles - Brandon Lake and we did Firm Foundation for Communion. You said it really well. It all comes down to what's practical and in line with the vision of the house. We write and record our songs too but didn't do any of ours this Sunday as we're preparing to release our new album. Great work as always.
1. I think there is a problem with WHO is the subject of worship. There are a lot of songs written in 1st person. Read the lyrics. 2. The talent of worship is not as important as the anointing. Great sounding worship from worship teams living sinfully smells foul to our King. A mediocre musician living a sanctified life plays worship that has a fragrance that is pleasing to God. 3. In the end, ALL of heaven will sing in one accord.
What is song to be used for in the context of congregational singing? It is there to 1)offer praise and honor to God and give Him all the glory, 2)express our adoration and love for God and 3)exhort and educate the church body in theological concepts. There is too much self-focus in much of our worship acts. Too much singing about me and how I feel. Lots of feelings-based lyrics which are genuinely unhelpful in a world filled with self-love advocates. If I hear more of the band than I do the congregation in a church, it sets off my BS-o-meter about what is going to come out of the pulpit. If the congregation and the worship team are more interested in treating a music service like a concert than a singing session, I question the motives and the seriousness of theology of those present.
Yet Not I but Through Christ In Me - Jonny Robinson, Rich Thompson, and Michael Farren Jesus Keep Me Near the Cross - William Howard Doane and Fanny Jane Crosby Give Thanks - Henry Smith The Cup was Not Removed - Ben Wolverton, Justin Tweito, and Taylor Agan (Communion Sunday so we did 4 songs rather than 5.)
I didn't play this past week, but I did play Saturday at our women's conference, this was the lineup Praise God I look to you King of my heart Raise a hallelujah Firm foundation Great are you lord The worst thing is, I don't know these songs. I just became a real Christian in Oct of 22'. I just want to express my love to Jesus through the musical ability He's given me. If other people around the world are singing the same things but are expressing genuine love for God and all that He's done I really couldn't care less if it's "Homogenized" or not
"The Lord's Prayer"- Matt Maher "He Is Our God"- Sovereign Grace "Psalm 150 (Praise the Lord)- Sovereign Grace "Same God"- Lake, Barrett, Furtick- Elevation? "More and More of You"- Peterson, Robinson
As church musician and I also involved in audio tech, I actually don't like the use of clicks and loops. I don't want to make it as "programmed" , for me, it should be free flowing. Much focus on actual worship that technicalities as being on time with BPM or how many chorus repeats before going to bridge etc. Here in Philippines many churches as still on old school way or learning songs then playing it as how we interpret it. Though some big churches are now updating to more "modern" IEM with click tracks and everything.
I really think the old Mars Hill model of using bands as worship teams was really underexplored and produced a really excellent culture of fun, incredible arrangements and original tunes with a wide variety of genre expressions. Hoping to see churches revisit that strategy.
Churches should be encouraged to write at least one song of their own per year, let's say. We have maybe 25 pretty good musicians in our church worship team rotation - we're really blessed with the volunteerism. We continue to play Bethel, Hillsong and others. And you mentioned Bethel - Bethel has songwriting camps where dozens of folks come into town (just happened a week+ ago) and songs are written and I guess semi-trademarked as "Bethel" productions to a degree. I think given that we pray, we create, we express - a church should be able to put together something and share it with the congregation and the world through their broadcast. A few churches near me have done this and though you don't know the words day-1 if you are attending, you can get used to it. Now, you do need a hook and good chorus to make it stick well. I'm now encouraged to go to our worship team leaders to ask if they would want to consider writing one in the next few months. I am not sure it will happen - but hopefully we can do something.
A difficulty here is that each time the church hires a new worship leader - ours tends to need to every couple of years - they will remove songs that you wrote from rotation as they don’t know them and they aren’t quite as good as professionally written songs. I had put one that I wrote into rotation years ago while we were in between worship leaders and even had our pastor tell me he really liked that song without knowing I had written it. When we hired a new guy I tried to show it to him and the first thing he did was delete it from planning center.
I attribute the rise of AI to our tendency to rely on it too much 😅. It all began with the commercialization of chord progressions, various effects, and now, the integration of AI. It seems like we've become somewhat complacent. In Africa, speaking for my country, we don't have easy access to all this technology and content, so we heavily depend on our natural computer - the human brain. When God said, "I will make man in my own image," it implies that we have the capability to create things inspired by the ideas around us. For instance, if I'm inspired by a church like Bethel with its lighting and sound setup, as a co-creator, I can strive to create something similar, even though I'll never be exactly like Bethel, Elevation, or Hillsong.
I was driving home from church this morning, thinking about how the music has become repetitive. Not necessarily the same songs, but so many sound alike and are all over current streaming platforms and local Christian radio. Come on WLs, take a chance. Get to know your congregation and adjust your library to the people in your church. One small church in my city, which is exceptionally blessed with talented musicians, has started writing their own music. No, you probably will never hear the songs on iTunes or Spotify, but they resonate especially well with the congregation. Maybe that's because some of the story lines actually came from the congregation. BTW, I loved how part of the 2nd service live stream footage included somebody's in-ear mix!
Just a thought with perhaps a slightly different perspective to add to the conversation. With all the worship music available on the various streaming platforms is it more worshipful to those we serve to play mostly the "popular/familiar" or new meaningful songs? I suggest it is a blend with maybe a few new but mostly "popular/familiar" to prevent moving from worship to performance of unfamiliar songs. Great topic.
There's definitely a lot of overlap here in GA. Most of the churches that aren't the ones in the country that are dying are still very similar. Great Things Redeemed How I Love to Proclaim It Jesus Keep Me Near the Cross His Mercy is More I Surrender All (Invitation)
Thankful (Lifetree Kids) This is Amazing Grace (Phil Wickham) Almighty (Simon Brading/Newday) Forever (Bethel) [just the chorus and bridge) Born to Love (Newday) We're a small (50ish), solely volunteer church that meet in a primary school. I agree that we should be considerate before we implement new ideas/songs. That's why our worship leaders collectively review and agree on new songs to bring to church (and cut), ending up about 10 new songs a year. I would highly recommend the Berean Test, found online, for a process of checking over songs.
Perhaps the relative simplicity of the CCM genre lends itself to the 'clone' idea. Not much musical dexterity is required in CCM. Chords are 1,4, 5 & 6m...for the most part, which lends itself to the 'sameness' of the sound. Throw some Israel Houghton into the mix and it will get interesting! 😁 I'm not sure if this is also true about 'black gospel ', and that's another conversation for another time, don't you think? You mentioned MultiTracks, which certainly can make it easier, but can also limit creativity. Let's be honest...it can be a crutch, and it can suppress spontaneous, freestyle worship. Just a thought. Thanks for raising the question, brother! 🙂🙏🏾
@@RylandRussellI appreciate your heart and this conversation. I'd be honored to connect with you offline and have a deeper conversation and I've sent you a FB friend request...if you're open to that. Oh! I'm an older pianist (now playing keys) at a church in Macon GA.
I don't think anyone is knocking the professionalization of contemporary Christian worship teams, and the introduction of modern audio engineering and on-stage performance assistance tools like in-ear monitors and click tracks. I also don't think people are knocking the musical motifs, production level, or other particular qualities associated with the genre of CCM. I think what people can knock and take issue with is referring to these big box church worship teams as 'industry leaders' and whether or not having a stylist to coordinate 'the look' of your worship team is proper for the Church. But on a more historical level, I think we're solidly in 'the golden age' of CCM at present. We're living in a time in which a new 'hymnal' of sorts is being written. Although the songs of this hymnal aren't being consolidated or published in some book to collect dust in a pew, there is a corpus of songs that all of us in the CCM scene would now say are just as classic, meaningful, and spirit-filled as stuff written 200 years ago (or more). Some folks may not want to admit that, and they may say nothing written in the last 20 years holds a candle to Blessed Assurance or In Christ Alone (or whatever), but even so, CCM is now here to stay and only time will tell if it too will go the way of the pipe organ --- which is also still with us!
Good thought and observations. My thoughts are that the ‘Big 3’ stable of writers only seem to be listening to each other. Musically, harmonically and rhythmically there seems to be very little difference between them. Interestingly if you listen to what Tommy Walker is putting out he consistently experiments with different styles and genres and pulls it off incredibly well. Great music and lyrics.
Do you have a video that explains what you do for some of your lyric slides? I’ve seen you have some with motion graphics, which adds a lot of energy. Is it using the lyric video and syncing it up with a multitrack? Or is there somewhere you’re getting them? Thanks!
Yes we will use a lyric video if we can find it and render it out with our stereo track. If not we will kinda create one within propresenter with different backs and lyric design. You could maybe look at this video I have ruclips.net/video/kyL6cVulHcU/видео.htmlsi=LrvtFSrGKPpcWfms
Ancient Gates (Brooke Ligertwood),God of Our Salvation (Wickham), Goodness of God (Church of the City), Only A Holy God (City Alight), Our God Will Go Before Us (Getty)
This Sunday - Guiding text: James 1:1-18 Rejoice by Keith & Kristyn Getty Because He Lives by the Gaithers (Lifeway Contemporary Hymn arrangement) Jesus Paid It All - Passion Ancient of Days - CityAlight
Ryland, in Christ and in love, brother... if we don't want to be clones, turn on the lights, turn down the noise and let's see if the church still worships the same. Let the Holy Spirit create the atmosphere, not us.
Worship services have become major productions. Is that necessarily a bad thing? I didn't think so, but I've been turned off by the darkened room, the rock concert-style strobes, the smoke machines, etc., which can place all the focus on the music team and unintentionally take the focus off our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Often doesn't feel very Christ-centered to this sexagenarian. I wonder what the ministry team would hear if they were NOT singing, but listening to the congregation? Are they being entertained, or entering in? 🤔
We've been dumbed down to the most rudimentary forms of feelings-first worship music. It's a sign of decay. Bach wrote music at the highest level to worship the highest God. Our current musicians have no fear of the Lord, no prayer life and no love the scriptures--our music makes that obvious.
4:24 Imitators vs worshippers, maybe? What i can say is recently my independent prayer/worship with God is singing songs i feel led to on my own w The Spirits Guidance. I say this to say, maybe if our independent worship grew greater, so would the songs that we sing in our own churches?
You see it as a bad thing. I think it’s been a great thing that has helped to unite the different denominations in an age where the American church attacks and mocks each other constantly. Songs written together in a book called a hymnal did the same thing in recent past.
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but the thumbnail for this video is popular worship leaders in denim jackets....and Ryland's profile photo is him in a denim jacket. Wish I could post a screenshot, but I found it comically ironic. Decent video though! I don't think it's a problem.
Cool video ❤ I can’t say more about this worship leaders, because here in India there is no any kind of a separate Worship leaders. We Are just singing all and worshiping god. We all serving one true God
I like that you are open to more than one facet of the situation. Each view has merit, and your presentation highlighted that. Here is one facet not mentioned: harmonic theory is weak in Contemporary Christian Gospel [CCG] music. I believe that to be intentional, because it allows worship pastor guitarists, some of whom really only know the cowboy chords, to quickly develop a repertoire. But the downside is that limited diatonic loops (largely lacking functional harmony) prevail in CCG. Think about how many worship songs feature, say, secondary dominants or chromatic mediants. Virtually none, right? It's almost the same frustration cellists face when it's time to play Pachebel's Canon. Ugh. The harmonic restrictions which are unwittingly imposed upon CCG by a broad lack of music theory among believers is a major contributing factor in the homogenization.
At you name - Phil Wickham, We Praise You - Matt Redman, This is amazing grace - Phil Wickham, You Are My King (Amazing Love) - Billy J. Foote, Hymn Of Heaven - Phil Wickham
Before everyone was copying Hillsong, Bethel and Elevation… everyone was copying Vineyard UK (Brian Doerksen & co) and Delirious (late 90s)… and before that there was March for Jesus/ Graham Kendrick (early 90s)….
Nice video. I do agree that all of the Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation music sounds the same. I feel that people are too focused on playing everything perfectly that they stifle creativity and it ends up sounding manufactured. I would prefer the imperfections with genuine connections than cookie-cutter worship, otherwise why not just play a recording.
![My Favorite Church Design Trends [Spring 2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M6NBHK8sOHg/mqdefault.jpg)
As someone who’s played guitar on worship team for 20+ years, it’s so much better now playing with click tracks and loops. Everyone stays together thanks to the cues, the sound is more full and professional sounding, and it helps gel newer players with experienced players on the team.
Great perspective!
I play on a worship team. What is a click track? What are loops?
@@sonofZeruiahplayin on click, meaning the team is using metronome along with their IEM.
Well for loops, are pre-recorded tracks that are played (on tape) while on "live" context.
How Great is Our God (faster/funkier version by Todd Galberth)
Freedom by Jesus Culture (faster/ funkier version by Harvest Music)
Same God/No One Higher by Pentecostals of Alexandria and we ended up mixing it with He Won’t Fail by Todd Galberth
We tend to go the middle ground between CCM and Gospel. It’s a pretty sweet spot when mixing things up and getting out of that “clone” kind of feeling. Every church has their own unique sound of worship. It’s up to the Worship Leader/Pastor to dig in prayer and find it for their church.
For all you worship friends watching, Ryland is my worship pastor and he is the real deal. I know it can be hard to know who is legit on social media, but trust me he is the best! Great video as always ✨
There is no such thing as the "best" in worship. The focus should be completely removed from worship pastors and toward God. When we start a discussion about different aspects of "worship" in the sense that is presented in this video, we are in danger of compartmentalizing the act of worship in its purest form into a performance art. I don't want to sound judgmental, but when you grow up in a third-world country and experience worshiping God under uncertainty of persecution, "worship" in the US does not come even close to what I could be. For instance, we are limiting God with our self-imposed amount of time allotted to "worship."
Only King Forever - A
Build My Life - D
I Love You Lord - D
Promises - A
Come Thou Fount - C
Also, I totally resonate with the “curator” thought. I think I’m wired in a similar way, finding it a lot easier to collect ideas from various avenues and bringing them together into the context of Ministry and member experience. Keep it up, bro!
CuratorsUnite! :)
It amazes me how many talented musicians there are in the local church! So many volunteers that God has blessed with excellent skill, talent, and heart
Ooh interesting thoughts, I’ve just come back from playing guitar at a local conference where I reached “worship singularity” - a bunch of songs all blurred into one, riffs and lead lines started getting confused and I embarrassed myself frequently - so this is something I’ve been reflecting on a lot personally….!
A couple of thoughts: 1) there’s far more stylistic diversity across generations and cultures globally than what is currently reflected in Western evangelical/charismatic churches, we can do more to honour a variety of expressions of beauty; 2) this is an emerging conversation in global missions, thinking about the cultural creative implications of our corporate worship and how the Gospel moves globally (look up ethnodoxology for more on this); 3) by resorting to backing tracks, we constrain our worship standard to that of professional Nashville musicianship, which can override the unique creative life God has embedded into our church communities. It really doesn’t make much sense that my community in Australia would sound musically identical to a Nashville church…!
None of this is intended to say “STOP WE’RE DOING IT WRONG” but to prompt thoughtful engagement with our culture of worship that feels so homogenised right now.
Sunday list:
God is for us - Cityalight
His mercy is more - Shane & Shane
Whom shall I fear - big Chris Tomlin
---
Who is like the Lord - Passion
My worth is not in what I own - Aaron Keys
--
How deep the Father's love for us - Stuart Townend
--
Here is love vast as - William Rees
Ryland! Donovan here! Long time no see!
To me it comes down to the same question of cover band versus original music.
As a musician who isn’t quite so jaded that he wouldn’t play Sweet Home Alabama at PJ’s down the street I also don’t think there’s a problem with playing songs your congregation really likes!
That being said - I always wanted to be involved in writing for church music - just nobody has ever valued me as a songwriter there.
Out here in the rest of the world I’ve been asked to write songs for other folks and have loved it. It’s just a risk for a worship leader to play original songs that aren’t there with a tried and true hit machine churning out the goods.
I Thank God - Housefires
Goodness, Love, and Mercy - Tomlin
Your Glory/Nothing But the Blood - All Sons and Daughters
“God So Loved” - We The Kingdom
“Jesus You Alone” - Highlands Worship
“There Is A Fountain (Full of Love)” - Shane & Shane
Your Grace Is Enough
Everlasting God
Beautiful Name
Heart of Worship
i'm only a third of the way through the video at this point, but thought I'd go ahead and comment this: one of the big complaints i hear from the older generations in churches is the lack of familiarity they have with the modern praise and worship music that's out there. They, of course, mostly, grew up with what you could call homogenized hymnals in their churches, most churches all singing the same songs. Through that, they grew to know and love those songs. If we're constantly creating new, the congregation, it could be argued, will be constantly chasing behind, not knowing the songs and not able to fully let go and let God during worship sets. Having heard the songs for years and knowing them without thinking about it surely allows people to freely worship.
Obviously, not everybody has a hard time absorbing new material, but this is just one consideration from this puzzle.
EDIT: Haha i guess i should have waited. you're now touching on the same hymnal comments I made. :D
EDIT2: Woops, I left out our worship set! Praise (Elevation), Holy Forever, The Blessing and an altar call of a shortened version of the Blessing.
I’m glad you commented this though.
I agree and would love to see "fusion" of the old and the new....
Thank you! I’ve been saying this for years. More like bad cover bands. I’m all about doing others written songs but make them your own!
While I’m in a rural country church that still primarily has a more traditional format… that’s just it - you know exactly what I am talking about.
If you go to a traditional service (assuming you’ve got knowledge beforehand of how a traditional service progresses, of course), you know what to expect. These services are often planned using a lectionary… so countless churches across multiple denominations often use the same Scripture on a given Sunday.
There will be announcement, prayer requests, 3 or 4 congregational hymns accompanied by piano (and/or/organ if fortunate enough), maybe a song by the choir or a special solo, maybe a responsive reading, Scripture, and a sermon of some kind…
It wasn’t until the contemporary takeover that there was much individuality, if you will. However as time has gone by, there is now a standard for contemporary services as well. They all have TVs, some kind of band, generally perform several songs more so at once than spread throughout the service and then the message.
Songs chosen are the popular ones and (generally) the newer ones due to there being no written/notated music for the congregation to attempt to follow. Sure, they may include an older hymn from time to time, but it probably also includes a copyrighted bridge.
The problem is not that churches seem to be echoing each other in style or format, the problem is that many churches do not have their priorities correct and/or are more concern about filling the room rather than speaking the Biblical truth.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a great tech crew with good equipment. However, if you’re so distracted by your job during the service, did you actually attend ‘church’?
The same can go for music - Whether you have a world class, million dollar pipe organ and $250k Steinway piano perhaps even with orchestra or you have a band with guitars and drums, what is most important is the content of the lyrics rather than the striven perfection of the performance, itself. Besides, if you look at it as a performance on a stage, you’re already wrong. And if people are too distracted by the music to actually participate in praising the Lord, that is also not good… when it becomes more so about people being entertained than being led which is much more common than anyone probably wants to admit.
Also… the preaching. Perhaps your pastor/minister/preacher/leader, head honcho is a terrific orator (legitimately funny, speaks well, insightful), if he is more worried about the feelings of the congregation rather their souls and we’ll-being, he’s failed. Church is not for just a weekly pick-me-up. It is not for just building up the biggest Sunday morning (or evening or Saturday) club/concert where the pastor is the headliner. No! If a preacher is doing his job, he is going to offend someone eventually. The Bible is more important than feelings and personal beliefs… and that’s not popular, and many church organizations put more emphasis on trends and growth for the sake of growth than they do on actually preaching the word of God and bring light to this sinful world.
This past Sunday we sang...
I Believe (Phil Wickham)
Come Behold the Wondrous Mystery (Matt Boswell)
In Christ Alone (Boyce Worship Collective)
Christ the True and Better (Matt Boswell)
Come Thou Fount (Aaron Keyes version)
I think a problem is that many churches are, by playing songs written and published by a specific few churches, contributing financially to ministries that are not what they are theologically aligned with, outright spreading false teaching, or are making very problematic and unethical decisions with the vast amounts of money they are making from songwriting and publishing. If your pastor wouldn't quote Kenneth Copeland in a positive way on a Sunday morning, thus giving approval to his teaching, why would your band play songs published by a church that actively endorses his ministry and aligns theologically with him? I think the part where we are letting pop music influence the worship culture of the church is dangerous, because many worship pastors are, knowingly or without much thought, sacrificing their theological and ethical principles for the sake of playing what's popular and fun.
I think another possible issue is that because of the access and availability of resources, small local churches are greatly tempted to make sounding and looking like the big famous churches a priority rather than being content within their own ministry. It spreads a certain kind of covetousness into the very culture of our worship services- always pushing and striving to look and sound like something we aren't but wish we could be.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! 👍
Here's my take. To avoid sounding like a clone on some of the songs. how about creating different renditions of the songs? How about playing them in different keys or approaching the songs? Upperroom has a different renditions of "Surrounded"? Leeland and Big Daddy Weave play "Lion And The Lamb" somewhat different. Me, I put both versions to together. The problem I see is people clone to sound right instead of sounding good. I try to bring a variation of approaches to our worship to get them away from sounding like everyone else. When worship teams want to clone others, disagreements and arguments appear and kills the spirit and unity of the team.
Couldn’t agree with you more! I like to think I add some variety 😂 I’m the only EG at my church so I always try to do a mix of rhythm and lead. When getting ready for a service I’ll pick and choose what to play and what I want to change. For example adding overdrive where there was none, changing a lead to a rhythm or rhythm to a lead, playing a melody either an octave up or down from the original, swelling chords instead of strumming them, combining different versions like you said, even choosing to not play at all in certain parts to create a different vibe. Little stuff like that to create a more unique approach. And our singers hardly sing any songs in their original keys so we also have that going for us lol.
My gripe from a guitar point of view is how identical worship guitar tones have become, so many worship guitarists that all have identical gear with identical settings and hardly any variety or experimentation going on. Ultimate I know that the congregation is unaffected by it, but just from a musician point of view it’s kind of annoying when a new song comes out and I can pretty accurately guess what the guitars will sound like and what they’ll be doing.
I Thank God
Gratitude
Worthy of it All
You keep hope alive - church of the city
Bigger than I thought - passion
How he loves - crowder
I surrender all
Our set list:
- Blessed Be Your Name (+ bridge of Love On Fire )
- Here Am To Worship
- Build My Life
- Holy Forever (+ spontaneous part)
- You Are Holy (Isaiah 6) (was on the set list, but time was up)
House of the Lord
Honey in the Rock
Plead the Blood / Nothing but the Blood
Goodness of God
Working on creating a culture of creativity in our new church. We just introduced an original song co-written by myself and another worship pastor in the area. People received it very well and I think are open to singing original songs. Its encouraging.
loved the different mixes you included in this video!
Cool to hear you are introducing original tunes!
1. King of Glory (Matt Redman & David Gate)
2. Lead me Lord (Laurence Roques)
3. What Joy is Found (Jeremy Riddle)
I have been in a church where they put WAY too much emphasis on making everything sound IDENTICAL to the record...I didn't like that.
But as Ryland and my pastor and God's word says we need to seek wisdom in all things! I have heard churches play songs very very differently from the recording and it actually ends up being VERY distracting!
That's a great point about different almost being distracting sometimes.
Definitely need a balance. We once had a leader that included all the recorded tracks in the mix along with what we were playing. That drove me crazy. I prefer to have no tracks playing. But I also do try to play things how they were recorded if there are interesting parts to play.
We did,
1. Speak to the Mountains
2. Great Are You Lord
3. God I look to You
4. Worthy of my Song
5. Graves into Gardens
I'll have to checkout Speak to the Mountains.
@@RylandRussell😭😭😭 sounds unbiblical
Back in the days of Hymns only it was said that churches usually sang only 25 of the same Hymns out of big Hymn Book. One thing I've noticed lately is that too many worship songs are sound the same. Our Worship Teams are volunteers so we don't have a lot of time to learn new. We do some but maybe 2 new songs a year.
Yes they are good songs but not that good that they all sound the same. And ignore all the great songs done over the years.
So to bring your point a little higher @Ryland Russell - the thing I'm seeing that is homogenizing the worship music experience is that most churches including small ones are using multitracks, and the same ones at that, and since the art of musicianship is largely at a very basic level in the volunteer pool at most churches, the music director makes up for that by playing the multitracks. So many worship teams are so dependent on the tracks, and you have bass, drums, guitar and a piano (playing block chords) and then you have mass produced 15 channel tracks that everyone just plays over....and it seriously gets to a point where I wonder why there are even musicians trying to play on stage....just put singers up there and hit play. Fresh content is hard to create, but I think that's less important than being authentic in the musical experience. Easier said than done, it's tough to find volunteers that have high levels of musicianship in most churches. And then we are taking the Bethel, Elevation and Hillsong stuff and not critically looking at the theological issues in a lot of the songs. It's very performative as well....and everyone watches RUclips and thinks they need to copy that.
Is it a problem? Yeah, and also....it's not new. I think churches should just focus on teaching the Word and being less worried about the performance. It takes time to build excellence...
I think there is a tendency for people to look at churches (I'll use the word loosely) that seem to have it all together, with large numbers and high quality production and think that if it is working for them then it might produce the same results if used somewhere else. But a lot of that is like cutting the ends off the ham when you cook it. A dark color scheme, for example, is often copied, but it only really works in church buildings that are little more than a metal shell. Someone probably started doing that because they wanted to make it look like something other than a barn or a warehouse. When it comes to songs, of course, most of us can't write a new song every week, so it makes sense to use the work that other people have done. But at the same time, you've got to know what your musicians are capable of. Tracks have their place, but I think you're better off using the talent that is there. You never want to be in a situation where people are hoping that the musicians don't show up, because the muscians on the tracks sound so much better.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this one!
We did: the Lord’s Prayer (it’s yours), Behold (then sings my soul) and 10,000 Reasons.
I see what you mean, but I have no problem with doing other people’s songs. God had given them gifts that I don’t have. As long as the song is scripturally sound, congregational and musically well written and/or interesting. I’m all for it and yes, I think all three are important IMO.
Thanks Ryland. Looking forward to your review on the dolly.
Great thoughts. Ya the dolly has been cool so far!
My friend and I had this discussion too. Even though he was ready to play things from Planetshakers, I definitely was not. My friend is okay with the homogenous worship because the writers made it simple for the average lay person. From my P.O.V. it seems like a major factor for worship songs being so similar is because CCM writers are intentionally thinking about the layperson who wants to play their song at church.
I worshipped with you guys in the small part we were able to hear. That was really ...goooood.
At 1:57, what is network cable plugging into? I assume something POE. I see your wireless talkback switch.
AIRSTEP ruclips.net/video/eMoqbvevvlo/видео.htmlsi=DUhPbfRR-YAfI9oD
As a member of the worship team, my biggest hurdle is trying to convince the WL that we should cater our music to the congregation, not our personal preferences. I live in a semi-rural area and the churches I've played in and am currently playing in have rural cowboy congregations. I discussed this with one WL that liked to select what I called "Russian Techno Pop" music. He didn't think it conflicted with the congregation's tastes, said something about "the youth" (with worship it's always about "the youth" for some reason). At my current church gig, which has a large rural populace, the WL told me not to play country, said that country doesn't belong in worship, even if the song has a country vibe (the song was "Goodness of God").
I don't know if it's just my region, but does anybody else get this "no country" out of their WL? How about WL's that make it all about their musical tastes, everyone else can pound sand?
I think that you should try to involve songs that cater to your older and younger congregation, my church still does old songs, ones that the youth would complain about and say this song is too old. But in reality its what the elders grew up with so it shouldnt just be about what the youth needs but what the other age groups in the church "need" as well. recently we have been doing more modern ccm songs, but we still have that "old song" every now and then on our mid week services, now all the techno lights blazing songs made solely for hype, i wouldnt recommended, i will let you and your WL decide what fits in that category, but i will recommend artists draylin young and james wilson, but artists that have produced great music in their ablums, i encourage you to listen to them. Elevation hillsong and bethel have good songs, but its good to have variety. Now as far as country goes, I dont really know what that style really amplifies, we dont have that "type" of congregation at my church, but goodness of God doesnt really give me that vibe, i like of cece sings it and the atmosphere she goes for. Definitely a heartfelt worship moment song. Im sorry if that didn't answer your question, but thats my input
(edit) I am a youh and the 2nd guitar player on our worship team, so this is inside input of my opinion, it might not be how everyone sees it.
Well don’t necessarily think about who it will cater too. An evangelist beamed Chris Donald said that we shouldn’t be “skipping” worshipping songs because it’s all worship. You’re there to lead the congregation in worship but first things is to minister to the Lord and then you could minister to the people
If they don’t want to change the music, I would just move to a different church. True Christians want to be corrected and are humble. The truth is, most young people go to church because it’s “fun”. I’m in college myself and there are not a lot of young ppl anymore who actually care about Jesus unfortunately and care more about pleasing men.
I wouldn't use the word Vibes as a lot of the world loves using that word too.. same with "energies" in the same sense.
The word for that would either be Discernment, Atmosphere or presence instead of that.
I read an article from a lady who's a psychic/medium who said she's really happy Christians now say the same lingo as she's done. Vibes means Vibrations and for her it means she senses demonic spirits etc. This is why we need to be careful and not fall for those words that became popular as well from the time people did drugs and those types of things in the 60s and 70s from the hippie times..
How about you make or lead worship on what God likes & loves since it's to Him, about Him & for Him. Ya might wanna study The Tabernacle in The Old Testiment. Man's personal preference is not even mentioned👀
This past Sunday we did:
Open Up Our Eyes
Blessed Assurance
Yet Not I But Through Christ in Me
Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)
Because He Lives
1 - Hope Has a Name - River Valley Worship
2 - Faithful Now - Vertical Worship
3 - Echo Holy - Red Rocks Worship
We love Echo Holy at Central. Solid set. I have some friends who are all about River Valley Worship I should probably check them out more.
It's an interesting topic in question. I've debated doing a discussion of it on my channel as well. What's funny about that article you mention is that the songs listed in CCLI top 100 are the songs only being report as in use by churches reporting to CCLI... So in some sense it's a bit skewed, but it is all very interesting; particularly when discussed thru the lens of the greater corporate congregational worship experience.
Setlist 9/10/2023 @ Lake Ridge Bible, Dallas TX -
As Loud As He Is Worthy
His Mercy Is More
Lord I Need You
Come Thou Fount
this video got you a sub, thanks for the discussion. i also like how you did it in the context of what you were doing that sunday.
So glad to see a fellow old guy on drums! I am fed right up with endless repetive turgid mid rangey toms dominating current drumming styles Whatever happened to playing open clean and simple with kick snare hats, 1 ride and 1 crash cymbal? I just do my own drumparts now even on the "hogemonous" songs But the bigger issue is we need to return to songs where the emphasis is on corporate singing where the collective voice of the church members is right at the top of the mix. Also every age group needs to be involved and included, so often when watching videos of elevation hill song etc, its always 20-30 sort of age group....no children, no elderly? Whats all that in aid of? very odd as if they dont exist
I really appreciate your heart man!
I Thank God
Freedom
Nothing But the Blood
Offering - My Soul Sings
At our church, we sing a lot of Keith Getty/Stuart Townend, City Alight and Soverign Grace. I always try to open the service with a traditional hymm and also ensure we are including a song for children with meaningful theology. An open dialogue with the minister/teaching pastor has really kept me focussed on what is being taugt that week and stops me going crazy with the song choices 😂
My wife and I set ourselves the challenge of writing one hymn a year, run it by our minister and try it out for a couple of weeks in church. In 10 years, 3 or 4 have stuck so don't be discouraged if your first song doesn't work :)
same at my church. our goal is to sing songs (mostly hymns) that everyone can relate to. and it’s songs never about us and our struggles, but ACTUAL praise and worship.
A lot of the modern songs now are just “Jesus saves me!”. All about us and never actually worship.
It just depends on the setting. There are biblical songs that you can listen to at home, but not sing at church because not everyone will relate.
My church’s Worship set list was:
-This Is Our God
-Never Lost
-More Than Able
-Gratitude
We loved More than Able for the season we did it!
@@RylandRussell that’s awesome! It’s such a good song!
@@RylandRussellYou do a fantastic job with what you do! I can see God working through you so evidently!
Christ Be Magnified (Cody Carnes)
There’s No Condemnation (Simon Brading)
Here Is Love (hymn)
A Thousand Hallelujahs (Brooke Ligertwood)
Psalm 92 (Paul Baloche)
Never heard of Simon Brading. I’ll have to check that one out.
We did House of the Lord, Way Maker, Blessed Assurance/ Who You Say I Am (Mashup), and Greater Still
This was balanced and fair. Thanks Ryland for what you do! I'm happy that neither side was critcized or put down. It's conversations like this that are needed for the church to become the complete body Jesus wants it to be!
Thanks a bunch!
Here For You
Yes I Will
O Praise The Name
We Glorify Your Name Chorus only...
One and Only Jesus
I’ll take a stab at this from maybe a different perspective…. Maybe the reason we sound like “clones”. Is because we have somewhat created a Genre of our own. I for one am excited that we have this platform. I was around before the resources like multitracks loop community , worship tutorials etc..Where we not just all imitators back then? I mean did we all not sing hymns right from the back of the pew? If you ask me we are
More creative then ever before and never before have I seen so many people fired up about singing worship songs! If we are using songs from 3 or 4 major players is that a bad thing?? I mean what resources did we have in the 90’s. Where we not all using Brentwood benson Choral arrangements. The exact written same ones? Now we can add parts take parts out etc.. if you ask me there has never been a more exciting time to be in worship ministry! I think this is a good thing and as Long as we are seeing people make decisions for Jesus does anything else really hold weight? Thanks again Ryland! Oh we played. Unstoppable God -Elevation Such an awesome God -Worship initiative. Echo Holy -Red Rocks and God you’re so Good -Passion
Great thoughts!
FIRST SERVICE
* House of The Lord - Phil Wickham
* This Is Our God - Phil Wickham
* Be Praised - Maverick City + I Exalt Thee - Pete Sanchez
* Battle Belongs - Phil Wickham
SECOND SERVICE
* This Is Living - Hillsong Y&F
* Day of Victory - Rend Collective
* Be Praised - Maverick City + You Are Worthy To Be Praised - Nigerian Traditionall
* House of Miracles - Brandon Lake
and we did Firm Foundation for Communion.
You said it really well. It all comes down to what's practical and in line with the vision of the house. We write and record our songs too but didn't do any of ours this Sunday as we're preparing to release our new album.
Great work as always.
1. I think there is a problem with WHO is the subject of worship. There are a lot of songs written in 1st person. Read the lyrics.
2. The talent of worship is not as important as the anointing. Great sounding worship from worship teams living sinfully smells foul to our King. A mediocre musician living a sanctified life plays worship that has a fragrance that is pleasing to God.
3. In the end, ALL of heaven will sing in one accord.
Praise You Anywhere - Brandon Lake
Lord We Thank You - Mercy Hill Worship
Thank You Jesus For the Blood - Charity Gayle
Been So Good - Elevation
This is Amazing Grace
Come Thou Fount
Blessed Assurance
Christ our Hope in Life and Death
Only a Holy God
Love these songs!!
What is song to be used for in the context of congregational singing? It is there to 1)offer praise and honor to God and give Him all the glory, 2)express our adoration and love for God and 3)exhort and educate the church body in theological concepts. There is too much self-focus in much of our worship acts. Too much singing about me and how I feel. Lots of feelings-based lyrics which are genuinely unhelpful in a world filled with self-love advocates. If I hear more of the band than I do the congregation in a church, it sets off my BS-o-meter about what is going to come out of the pulpit. If the congregation and the worship team are more interested in treating a music service like a concert than a singing session, I question the motives and the seriousness of theology of those present.
Yet Not I but Through Christ In Me - Jonny Robinson, Rich Thompson, and Michael Farren
Jesus Keep Me Near the Cross - William Howard Doane and Fanny Jane Crosby
Give Thanks - Henry Smith
The Cup was Not Removed - Ben Wolverton, Justin Tweito, and Taylor Agan
(Communion Sunday so we did 4 songs rather than 5.)
"Measuring Stick" best idea, and I love yours!
Our Church Worship Setlist:
Your Love Never Fails
Behold Him
When I Survey the Wondrous Cross
Behold Our God
God Really Loves Us
I didn't play this past week, but I did play Saturday at our women's conference, this was the lineup
Praise
God I look to you
King of my heart
Raise a hallelujah
Firm foundation
Great are you lord
The worst thing is, I don't know these songs. I just became a real Christian in Oct of 22'. I just want to express my love to Jesus through the musical ability He's given me. If other people around the world are singing the same things but are expressing genuine love for God and all that He's done I really couldn't care less if it's "Homogenized" or not
Thanks for sharing that perspective.
"The Lord's Prayer"- Matt Maher
"He Is Our God"- Sovereign Grace
"Psalm 150 (Praise the Lord)- Sovereign Grace
"Same God"- Lake, Barrett, Furtick- Elevation?
"More and More of You"- Peterson, Robinson
1.) We praise you
2.) Honey in the rock.
3.) hope has a name.
4.) heart abandoned
Praise You Again - Graves into Gardens - Build My Life - Believe for it
As church musician and I also involved in audio tech, I actually don't like the use of clicks and loops.
I don't want to make it as "programmed" , for me, it should be free flowing. Much focus on actual worship that technicalities as being on time with BPM or how many chorus repeats before going to bridge etc.
Here in Philippines many churches as still on old school way or learning songs then playing it as how we interpret it.
Though some big churches are now updating to more "modern" IEM with click tracks and everything.
I really think the old Mars Hill model of using bands as worship teams was really underexplored and produced a really excellent culture of fun, incredible arrangements and original tunes with a wide variety of genre expressions.
Hoping to see churches revisit that strategy.
Also,
1.) Because He Lives deserves more plays
2.) Your in ear mix is absolutely wild.
That’s where all of the creamer went! 😂😂
😂😂😳
And all this time I’ve been blaming it on the Youth . . .
12:16 What's making that beautiful siren noise? Haven't heard that before.
Our lead electric player :)
@@RylandRussell Nice. Love the sound of the drums too. Really have them dialed in.
Churches should be encouraged to write at least one song of their own per year, let's say. We have maybe 25 pretty good musicians in our church worship team rotation - we're really blessed with the volunteerism. We continue to play Bethel, Hillsong and others. And you mentioned Bethel - Bethel has songwriting camps where dozens of folks come into town (just happened a week+ ago) and songs are written and I guess semi-trademarked as "Bethel" productions to a degree. I think given that we pray, we create, we express - a church should be able to put together something and share it with the congregation and the world through their broadcast. A few churches near me have done this and though you don't know the words day-1 if you are attending, you can get used to it. Now, you do need a hook and good chorus to make it stick well. I'm now encouraged to go to our worship team leaders to ask if they would want to consider writing one in the next few months. I am not sure it will happen - but hopefully we can do something.
A difficulty here is that each time the church hires a new worship leader - ours tends to need to every couple of years - they will remove songs that you wrote from rotation as they don’t know them and they aren’t quite as good as professionally written songs. I had put one that I wrote into rotation years ago while we were in between worship leaders and even had our pastor tell me he really liked that song without knowing I had written it. When we hired a new guy I tried to show it to him and the first thing he did was delete it from planning center.
@@timmiller1 That's frustrating and not the true nature of what the church is meant to be.
Thank you, balanced way of this discussion, would love more on this subject!!! Thank you
I attribute the rise of AI to our tendency to rely on it too much 😅. It all began with the commercialization of chord progressions, various effects, and now, the integration of AI. It seems like we've become somewhat complacent.
In Africa, speaking for my country, we don't have easy access to all this technology and content, so we heavily depend on our natural computer - the human brain.
When God said, "I will make man in my own image," it implies that we have the capability to create things inspired by the ideas around us. For instance, if I'm inspired by a church like Bethel with its lighting and sound setup, as a co-creator, I can strive to create something similar, even though I'll never be exactly like Bethel, Elevation, or Hillsong.
My soul magnifies the lord
The Lord’s Prayer (it’s yours)
You’re beautiful
How great thou art
I was driving home from church this morning, thinking about how the music has become repetitive. Not necessarily the same songs, but so many sound alike and are all over current streaming platforms and local Christian radio. Come on WLs, take a chance. Get to know your congregation and adjust your library to the people in your church. One small church in my city, which is exceptionally blessed with talented musicians, has started writing their own music. No, you probably will never hear the songs on iTunes or Spotify, but they resonate especially well with the congregation. Maybe that's because some of the story lines actually came from the congregation. BTW, I loved how part of the 2nd service live stream footage included somebody's in-ear mix!
I Thank God, Firm Foundation (He Won’t), Echo Holy, and The Blessing
Our set was:
Raised To Life
Psalm 90 (Satisfy Us With Your Love)
No Longer Slaves
We had
"The Solid Rock,"
"His Mercy Is More,"
"In The Sweet By and By," and
"Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)"
With a closer of "Softly & Tenderly"
Graves into gardens, glory honor power, firm foundation ended service with build my life. Sermon series on worry over worship (Gods our foundation)
Just a thought with perhaps a slightly different perspective to add to the conversation. With all the worship music available on the various streaming platforms is it more worshipful to those we serve to play mostly the "popular/familiar" or new meaningful songs? I suggest it is a blend with maybe a few new but mostly "popular/familiar" to prevent moving from worship to performance of unfamiliar songs. Great topic.
I agree that is a consideration for sure. I don't think the majority of my church is listening to Christian music throughout the week.
Love the magnetic board idea!!
There's definitely a lot of overlap here in GA. Most of the churches that aren't the ones in the country that are dying are still very similar.
Great Things
Redeemed How I Love to Proclaim It
Jesus Keep Me Near the Cross
His Mercy is More
I Surrender All (Invitation)
Thankful (Lifetree Kids)
This is Amazing Grace (Phil Wickham)
Almighty (Simon Brading/Newday)
Forever (Bethel) [just the chorus and bridge)
Born to Love (Newday)
We're a small (50ish), solely volunteer church that meet in a primary school. I agree that we should be considerate before we implement new ideas/songs. That's why our worship leaders collectively review and agree on new songs to bring to church (and cut), ending up about 10 new songs a year.
I would highly recommend the Berean Test, found online, for a process of checking over songs.
Yes, I check out the berean test as well usually to see what it says. Thanks James!
Perhaps the relative simplicity of the CCM genre lends itself to the 'clone' idea. Not much musical dexterity is required in CCM. Chords are 1,4, 5 & 6m...for the most part, which lends itself to the 'sameness' of the sound.
Throw some Israel Houghton into the mix and it will get interesting! 😁
I'm not sure if this is also true about 'black gospel ', and that's another conversation for another time, don't you think?
You mentioned MultiTracks, which certainly can make it easier, but can also limit creativity. Let's be honest...it can be a crutch, and it can suppress spontaneous, freestyle worship. Just a thought.
Thanks for raising the question, brother! 🙂🙏🏾
Good thoughts, thanks for sharing Mark.
@@RylandRussellI appreciate your heart and this conversation.
I'd be honored to connect with you offline and have a deeper conversation and I've sent you a FB friend request...if you're open to that.
Oh! I'm an older pianist (now playing keys) at a church in Macon GA.
I don't think anyone is knocking the professionalization of contemporary Christian worship teams, and the introduction of modern audio engineering and on-stage performance assistance tools like in-ear monitors and click tracks. I also don't think people are knocking the musical motifs, production level, or other particular qualities associated with the genre of CCM. I think what people can knock and take issue with is referring to these big box church worship teams as 'industry leaders' and whether or not having a stylist to coordinate 'the look' of your worship team is proper for the Church. But on a more historical level, I think we're solidly in 'the golden age' of CCM at present. We're living in a time in which a new 'hymnal' of sorts is being written. Although the songs of this hymnal aren't being consolidated or published in some book to collect dust in a pew, there is a corpus of songs that all of us in the CCM scene would now say are just as classic, meaningful, and spirit-filled as stuff written 200 years ago (or more). Some folks may not want to admit that, and they may say nothing written in the last 20 years holds a candle to Blessed Assurance or In Christ Alone (or whatever), but even so, CCM is now here to stay and only time will tell if it too will go the way of the pipe organ --- which is also still with us!
Good thought and observations.
My thoughts are that the ‘Big 3’ stable of writers only seem to be listening to each other.
Musically, harmonically and rhythmically there seems to be very little difference between them.
Interestingly if you listen to what Tommy Walker is putting out he consistently experiments with different styles and genres and pulls it off incredibly well. Great music and lyrics.
Tommy Walker has been around for decades...like Kent Henry and Don Moen. 🙏🏾
Do you have a video that explains what you do for some of your lyric slides? I’ve seen you have some with motion graphics, which adds a lot of energy. Is it using the lyric video and syncing it up with a multitrack? Or is there somewhere you’re getting them? Thanks!
Yes we will use a lyric video if we can find it and render it out with our stereo track. If not we will kinda create one within propresenter with different backs and lyric design. You could maybe look at this video I have ruclips.net/video/kyL6cVulHcU/видео.htmlsi=LrvtFSrGKPpcWfms
I challenged our group about six years ago to write our own, 90% of what I use we write.
Our setlist this week was - God so loved, Man of sorrows, oh praise the name
God So Loved
This Is Our God
Resurrecting
Have It All
Ancient Gates (Brooke Ligertwood),God of Our Salvation (Wickham), Goodness of God (Church of the City), Only A Holy God (City Alight), Our God Will Go Before Us (Getty)
This Sunday -
Guiding text: James 1:1-18
Rejoice by Keith & Kristyn Getty
Because He Lives by the Gaithers (Lifeway Contemporary Hymn arrangement)
Jesus Paid It All - Passion
Ancient of Days - CityAlight
New Name Written Down in Glory, Jesus Messiah, Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing, Forever, and One Day (When We All Get to Heaven)
Ryland, in Christ and in love, brother... if we don't want to be clones, turn on the lights, turn down the noise and let's see if the church still worships the same. Let the Holy Spirit create the atmosphere, not us.
Worship services have become major productions. Is that necessarily a bad thing? I didn't think so, but I've been turned off by the darkened room, the rock concert-style strobes, the smoke machines, etc., which can place all the focus on the music team and unintentionally take the focus off our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Often doesn't feel very Christ-centered to this sexagenarian. I wonder what the ministry team would hear if they were NOT singing, but listening to the congregation? Are they being entertained, or entering in? 🤔
We've been dumbed down to the most rudimentary forms of feelings-first worship music. It's a sign of decay. Bach wrote music at the highest level to worship the highest God. Our current musicians have no fear of the Lord, no prayer life and no love the scriptures--our music makes that obvious.
Are you saying that Phil Wickham has no fear of the lord, no prayer life and no love of the scripture?
Great take on this!
4:24 Imitators vs worshippers, maybe?
What i can say is recently my independent prayer/worship with God is singing songs i feel led to on my own w The Spirits Guidance. I say this to say, maybe if our independent worship grew greater, so would the songs that we sing in our own churches?
You see it as a bad thing. I think it’s been a great thing that has helped to unite the different denominations in an age where the American church attacks and mocks each other constantly. Songs written together in a book called a hymnal did the same thing in recent past.
Only a Holy God - CityAlight
Nothing but the Blood - hymn
Hallelujah for the Cross - Chris McLarney
O Praise the Name - Hillsong
You shared the complete gospel 4 times in a row with that set.
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but the thumbnail for this video is popular worship leaders in denim jackets....and Ryland's profile photo is him in a denim jacket. Wish I could post a screenshot, but I found it comically ironic. Decent video though! I don't think it's a problem.
Glad you caught that :) And I'll take "decent video" any day! 😁
Cool video ❤ I can’t say more about this worship leaders, because here in India there is no any kind of a separate Worship leaders. We Are just singing all and worshiping god. We all serving one true God
If I wrong so corrected me😅
I like that you are open to more than one facet of the situation. Each view has merit, and your presentation highlighted that. Here is one facet not mentioned: harmonic theory is weak in Contemporary Christian Gospel [CCG] music. I believe that to be intentional, because it allows worship pastor guitarists, some of whom really only know the cowboy chords, to quickly develop a repertoire. But the downside is that limited diatonic loops (largely lacking functional harmony) prevail in CCG. Think about how many worship songs feature, say, secondary dominants or chromatic mediants. Virtually none, right? It's almost the same frustration cellists face when it's time to play Pachebel's Canon. Ugh. The harmonic restrictions which are unwittingly imposed upon CCG by a broad lack of music theory among believers is a major contributing factor in the homogenization.
Thanks for sharing that. Id have to say that CCG is written for me then because I don’t know what most of those theory things mean 🤣🤣
You Tube has a number of free tutorials which can bring you up to speed on music theory!@@RylandRussell
At you name - Phil Wickham, We Praise You - Matt Redman, This is amazing grace - Phil Wickham, You Are My King (Amazing Love) - Billy J. Foote, Hymn Of Heaven - Phil Wickham
Holy (Benton Brown)
Let Everything That Has Breath
God of Wonders
Hallelujah For The Cross
My One Comfort
Before everyone was copying Hillsong, Bethel and Elevation… everyone was copying Vineyard UK (Brian Doerksen & co) and Delirious (late 90s)… and before that there was March for Jesus/ Graham Kendrick (early 90s)….
Lion and the Lamb
My Jesus
Welcome
The Stand
Grace Like Rain
Anthem
Message
Invitation:Blessed Assurance
Worship got me crying in my car on my lunch break
Nice video. I do agree that all of the Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation music sounds the same. I feel that people are too focused on playing everything perfectly that they stifle creativity and it ends up sounding manufactured. I would prefer the imperfections with genuine connections than cookie-cutter worship, otherwise why not just play a recording.