Shopping Cart Theory - DEBATE (Is this the apex example of a bad person?)
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Join Philosophy Vibe as George and John discuss and debate different philosophical ideas, today they will be looking into the Shopping Cart Theory. Based on a popular meme in 2019, it has been theorised that returning a simple shopping cart at a supermarket is a great predictor as to whether one is a moral person and capable of self-governing. Is there any moral and philosophical truth to this claim? Watch as the theory is explained and debated.
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shame is the only reason people return the shopping cart. Don't be a slave to society's expectations, reject the cuck mentality, become diogenes, and don't return the shopping cart like a philosophical chad.
I really enjoy these. One point I think missed here is the reason you return the cart, isn't for selfish reasons, it's for empathy for retail workers, whose jobs are shitty enough as it is.
Yes Indeed. And also ;
Hire more employees to return carts, costs the store more money.
Which they just pass on to the consumers, with higher food prices.
_It is a very simple equation._
I worked as a courtesy clerk for awhile(collecting carts was part of the job) and honestly collecting the rogue carts was my favorite part of the job. While most of the job was pretty mindless, finding the most efficient route to collect the carts, looking at rogue cart density, mapping out the walking route, etc. activated the brain in a way the rest of the job did not. Not to say that this is a sufficient reason to abandon a cart but I don't necessarily agree that returning the cart helps the worker
2:33
Bruh, I'm not thinking about shopping carts anymore.
I would disassemble the shopping cart and replace it bit by bit. Then I would reassemble the disassembled pieces into a shopping cart. Then I would ask myself which shopping cart is the original one. Then I use a teleportation machine, however I don't know if I have moved or if I am a clone and the original me is dead. If I'm a clone, do I still have an obligation to return the shopping carts? Then I decide to go 1/2 of the distance to the returning place. Then 1/4. Then 1/8. Then 1/16. And so on. As I go, I think to myself "I have no choice, I have to believe that I have free will. Luckily I'm just a brain in a vat anyway and we are all tricked by an evil demon. If god exists, why did he create such a horrible world where people don't return their shopping carts?"
best comment 😂
I'm glad you mentioned the "children in car" scenario as that is basically the only time I don't return a cart. The only other reason for me would be if it were an emergency.
Another topic similar to this one I would like to see addressed is something that is highly irritating; people who park in handicap parking spaces but do not need them, just feeling privileged. I've never liked this unethical mentality.
Many people are selfish... they only concern themselves with the easiest path to take.
I debate this with myself every time I shop. (Yes, I'm that guy.) I even asked an employee who was collecting the carts if they would prefer me to leave it so he could keep his job. "Um, no," was his rather befuddled response.
I feel good and self-righteous when I return the carts and even push them together so they are ready to go for the collector. But I also feel bad when I consider that I might just be doing it to satisfy my anxiety and OCD. I also hate that I'm judging others for not doing it in the same way I judge drivers' rudeness by whether they use their blinkers or not. But it is kind of inconsiderate, no?
no one ever died because a shopping cart wasn't returned. Embrace your inner diogenes.
I have an example to give which directly applied to me multiple times: When I'm going shopping for my weekly groceries , I'm using my bicycle, I have to use a shopping cart because there's no way I can carry all my groceries without it. But then when I reach my bicycle and load the groceries on it. My groceries are not safely stored inside a closed car. Since the bike area is far from the cart storage area, bringing the cart back would mean letting my groceries on my bike unattended, easy to steal for anyone. I cannot move both the bicycle and the cart at the same time. My only option is to leave the cart next to the bike area.
i can say 100% for certain that the store will never hire more people to clean up the parking lot. they simply make the only employee to pick up the slack and work harder than they need to. and even after the parking lot already 100% clean, someone will still abandon their cart eventually. as a cart collector for more than 2 years, I hold the authority to attest to this theory as true.
I always return my cart because I think about how it makes it easier for others to get a cart.
If the mother is able to walk to her car with her child two times and able to walk with the child throughout the store, then she can walk to the cart organizer with her child as well.
*Hire more people to return chopping carts ?*
That costs the store more money, which they just pass on to the consumer, with higher food prices.
_Pay more for your food,_ because you can't show a tiny bit of courtesy.
Ultimately it all comes down to pleasure-pain principal
If you're enduring pain for other humans you're gudd :) and vise versa
But sometimes you may endure pain b/c of you're upbringing & social conditioning. Which forces you to do good. If you don't you suffer internally (mentally)
I return a shopping cart for various reasons, but mostly because I physically can and it’s an easy way to keep my body moving or getting my steps in.
However, I understand why other people physically cannot.
Thanks for this video. Lots to think about with these reasonings.
I would like to setup this experiment: On a parking lot with usually no abandoned carts, some experiment insiders purposefully abandon their carts. Repeat this experiment in different countries, with differing amount of insiders. How many does it take to "convert" the lot to be messy? Will they ever? Will people actually call out the insiders? And will the lots convert back at some time?
What if you are a person who not only returns their shopping cart but when they do, they also reorganize and neatly stack all the shopping carts in the cart storage area?
obsessive compulsive?
Goated channel, much love ❤️❤️❤️
Interesting. I'm a conscientious type so I almost always return the shopping cart. I think a better example would be recycling bins (such as for a condo complex). You have to go to the recycling bin anyway without extra walking, so would you be a good citizen and fold cardboard boxes to take up less space or would you throw in that big empty cardboard box as is.
Shopping Cart Theory by Schopenhauer.😀😀 Schopenhauer's central concept of the "will" as the driving force behind human actions could be interpreted in the context of the shopping cart theory.
I think morality is construct of convince really to cover up trauma and unleash them onto to others 😢
Thank you Philosophy Vibe team for helping me to embrace critical thinking. I like these intellectual debates. Please never stop uploading these debates. Philosophy Vibe is one of my favourite RUclips Channels. I like the way you guys debate and make us understand complex philosophical theories in simple and easy English. By the way, do you guys have any topics to cover about the philosophy of religion and philosophy of mind in the future? If yes, then can you name some topics from both philosophy of religion and philosophy of mind?
Thank you so much for the Super again! It's great to see how useful these videos are for you.
Suppose a lazy shopper doesn't want to walk their cart back, but still tries to do the right thing and return it, so instead they save a few steps by shoving the cart ahead in the general direction of the corral. Unfortunately, their aim is terrible, and so it will likely impact a small but talkative family, who are too interested in each other's comments to notice the impending cart, and are too loud for you to call for their attention. If the only way to save the family is to shove your own cart into a perpendicular collision with the stray cart, and you can readily predict that the deflected carts will be redirected towards another oblivious shopper, do you pull the lever?
What if you had previously observed the lone oblivious shopper returning or abandoning their own cart?
Using a super market trolley will never be the same again 👍
Thank you for exploring diverse circumstances. The baby in the car is one of many. I'd expect the shoppers to be particularly hungry and tired from the shopping experience, and would further caution against performatively criticizing individuals doing the best they can amid systemic injustices: Why bother constructing an economic system that conditions individuals into a sense of learned helpless from the misperception that only paid labor is worthwhile, only to stifle wages to the point that individuals have to start cutting their losses in a misguided pursuit of peak efficiency?
My advice: Park nearby a stray cart, and take it into the store for your shopping. Even if something comes up, the worst you can do is break even. Also, try to avoid the 'hasty generalization fallacy', and be easy on yourself and others: 'Today you, tomorrow me'.
The place I go to makes you put in a coin to get the shopping cart and returns the coin to you only if you return the cart. If this proposition is true then society has failed the test.
If returning the cart makes you "just-plain-better" then not returning it makes you "just-plain-worse".
You could statistically track which towns are "just-plain-better".
There are other ways of slicing up demography than geography.
Have we finally found our "just-plain-better" criteria with which we all agree ?
I place a lot of importance on the pleasure hit I get from returning the cart. The other arguments are less important UNLESS I'm under time pressure, when I think that all the other times I returned the cart grants me permission to abandon it.
I have my own ideas …
1. If there’s a corral in the aisle I’m parked , I’ll return it, every time . If there’s not , I won’t , unless I’m relatively close to the front.
Secondly, I imagine , and this use to be my experience working retail , long ago , other than when weather conditions are terrible (heat , cold, rain). The folks grabbing the carts don’t mind the extra time, it’s time out of the store, to check their phone , have a smoke …
Morality isn’t objective saying it is a bad mistake you’ll approach everyone with same kindess or withdrawal on base assumptions
Wouldn't stores just make collecting the carts part of the duties of the regular staff?
(also, the Shopping Cart Problem and the Trolley Problem being different causes mild confusion for us British folk).
Thank you very much for your beautiful videos.. I am asking for help to know the best apps for law studies? Also, what are the best books for a student starting law studies?
There is no mind/ stance-independent, non-circular, objective "prescription" for any entity to have any value or do any duty. You will just do what you want regardless, and people will emote for or against.
The theory doesnt presuppose any of that nor necessitates it to engage with it
Love these. You guys have a hit here
The indian version of this is,
Littering everywhere.
There's nothing I'll get from putting it in a dustbin,
Nothing wrong will happen to me if I throw it wherever.
And there are people employed to keep the city clean, who pick up litters.
And in restaurants especially,
If I cleaned after myself, the table cleaners would lose their job.
I know cleaning up after myself is morally right,
But I'm lazy enough to not do it,
And as a side effect, I'm helping people be employed...
the idea of it being a societal expectation is not a bad one. There are various cultures, say in Europe, where you are expected to do more then return the shopping cart but to also clean your front porch, not make noise on sunday, etc. etc. some people find all of these societal norms to be stifling and going to a society where these societal expectations are absent can feel liberating.
*Big Picture Question ?*
_If everyone took the same action that I did, would the world be better off, or worse off ?_
I see the ethical argument in returning you Cart.. this aligns much with Kant's idea on religion
I return it probably 99% of the time. There are no absolutes to be found here.
I have said for years that returning the shopping cart is a quick gauge of whether you are a human being or not. Kind of a cheap and easy version of the Voight-Kampff test in Bladerunner.
Love these videos!
Philosophers trying not to turn a simple joke or sentence into a debate about how God, ethics, meaning, mortality, or flying spaghetti monster exists for 1 second:
Okay but onto some actual points. The theory is how people do things to help others. People Intend to return a shopping cart to help workers who have to put the carts back or not inconvenience others when parking. It is entirely possible someone does this out of their own selfish desire but this does not mean that when someone puts the cart back that they mean to do it out of selfish desire but rather they genuinely care that people are not bothered by shopping carts in the middle of the street which could prevent people from even going inside the store. As for John saying that what if someone is disabled or they have children and they have to put the cart back but it is difficult for them to return it, this claim is supported only by George's misunderstanding of ethics (At least, to me.). George claims people should put the carts back but they don't have to out of dire emergency but I would extend this to people who will have immense difficulty to put back the cart or have a dire emergency. As for the example of the guardian taking care of their children, someone can reasonably leave their children in the car for a minute or 2 to put back a cart. This reason isn't really justifiable. Another claim that bothered me was you can create more jobs by not returning a cart. People can be hired to clean them up ergo, creating a job.
This is flawed thinking. This is basically saying: "Bothering people gives them a test to control their anger so I'm the good guy."
You don't know the effects of your actions so you could just create more harm than good. We should exercise caution when we do actions like this.
"The term morally good is debatable. To put a shopping cart back is a social norm." Maybe originally but it later evolved in the belief that you should do it out of the goodness of your heart.
Just because this ethical theory came from a social norm, does not invalidate the conclusion. I don't think you should think someone as evil or a savage for not doing such a thing because, well... its a shopping cart. But maybe you should be more considerate and care more about others comfort.
Thats my opinion. I would love to see some replys.
When ypu grow up in the third world this philosophy, grows exponentially. People have less conviction & willingness to follow the state as they are victims of western plunder. Shopping carts are regularly stollen & repurposed to for gathering firewood, carrying loads, carrying their tools & supplies, collecting scrap etc. It reminds me of the homeless in California.
The next connotation it takes on is social class. Because I come from a upper middle-class, we are doctrinated to respect the state, its facilities, other public assets as it is ia sign of or prosperous, ordered and caring society where we appreciate the generosity of the state thereby taking carw of it.
People with children shouldnt get a pass. Unload the groceries, grab the kid, and return the cart with the kid by your side. Or ask for an employee to help you after checkout to unload so they can take the cart back. Single moms already have enough excuses to act shitty as it is. Lets not give em another
The cart, i.e. wealth, of some sort, ideally, morally, socially though a analogous represention of a type behaviorism towards right becomes moot, in that nature, itself is good and evil persist living, regardless of the analogy, of any sort.
If I return the shopping cart back to its spot, that'd make me think of stop shopping at all. Thus i'm not buying what they selling like a window shopper 😂😂
Why?
@@sherrykhelawan3047 I'd be tired already to go back and put the shopping cart in their place. That'd make me hate the shopping, that include most of the ppl and thats not good for the business and they already know that thats why they must employ people to do the job
If someone left the soppingcart i would grab it use it and bring it back earning minimum 0.50 to max 2 euro because thats the cost to unlock the shoppingcart in the first place😊
I DESPISE this argument with a passion.
How does not completing a very random, basic task make you a bad person that's unable to self-govern? Yes, I lived in Miami where NO ONE returned their carts and it made for a horrible experience parking and it was just chaos overall. And, while I'm aware that the argument does not claim that you are a good person for returning it, it does give me "holier-than-thou" vibes. It reminds me of a Christian who is outspoken about how being gay is a sin, but when confronted about other sins they commit, they say, "Well, I never said I was perfect, I'm just saying there are LOTS of sins and that's one of them". Then why don't they ever talk about those other sins? It's usually because they are committing all of those other sins, but, because they have no inclination of being gay and are just straight by nature OR are closeted, they make sure to project that sin.
What I'm saying is, this original poster and most people who agree with this, all clearly return their carts. And they are not saying they are good people for it, oh never! But the people that don't do this one oh-so-noble action are monsters. And yes, they might have deficiencies in other parts of their characters (cheating on their spouses, lying, being mean to others, gossiping), but hey, they return their carts! So they can't be that terrible right?
No. Returning your shopping cart is a very low-effort activity, but so is giving attention to your child instead of sitting them in front of screens all day, so is lending your time to people in need, so is not being a hypocrite, but of course, those things aren't the test, because then we would all feel the finger pointed at us. So, instead, let's just call the people who don't return their cart horrible to prop ourselves up and go about our day.
Bro, just say you don’t return shopping carts.
No, but in all seriousness, you’re not really addressing the argument fully, you’re debating a strawman. First off, the fact that it gives you “holier than thou” vibes is really not an argument.
The argument here is that if you’re not willing to do this menial, unimportant, insignificant task that would not reward you in any way and only minor inconvenience the people around you, then you’re not really a functioning (or willing) member of society. The only reason why you are participating in society is based on the consequences that non participation brings and cooperate based on the consequences that non cooperation brings.
You say you’re a “good person”, but can’t bring yourself to do this one tiny thing for others. You’re a “bad person”, because you disregard things that don’t benefit you immediately and directly. In other words, your morality system is based on nothing except your preference and preference alone.
I’m not saying that you’re this person, btw, just making a point.
Man, Christians live rent free in your minds
@@franciscosilvestre6914yeah. For me, it’s as simple as the silver rule: Don’t do onto others what you don’t want done to you.
If you don’t want to feel pissed off seeing a shopping cart blocking the spot you want to park your car, don’t leave the shopping cart that’ll piss others off too.
I think you definitely have a point and I wouldn't think someone was an upstanding citizen just because they returned a cart. They might still be an unpleasant person overrall or a hypocrite in other areas. It definitely does sound like a virtue signal to say "if you don't return your shopping cart like I do, you're a moral monster."
RUclips needs to get their shit together I hate these vids . My Algorithm needs help
These videos are awesome!!
And why did you even make a comment on a channel that you didn't want to see more of?
Yes lol