Damn good to hear back from you bro, been following along with the journey. I can’t wait to see the results of your mma surgery. Maxilla looks so much better
I treat Sleep Apnea and UARS in my dental patients with oral appliance therapy, and I have to say that I am so fascinated with your experience! I love how you documented this entire process!
Evan it’s so great to get an update! I’m grateful you had success expanding with your MARPE, are finishing up Invisalign, and now gearing up for double jaw surgery. All very exciting! I myself know this too well having finished up expansion with a 6mm and 10mm MSE through the Gelb center in New York and am now settling until Invisalign, getting used to everything, and adapting/healing but you must not focus too much on “how I’ll feel better WHEN I get double jaw surgery” or “I’ll be happy WHEN I do this,” etc. Stay in the moment and be grateful for what you have already achieved…more great things are on the way buddy!!!
I’ve been working with Dr. Montrose and it has been a pleasure. Yes I’ve experienced quite the transformation. Breathing way better than before, not perfect, but moving in the right direction; have to retrain myself to breathe through my nose and into my belly (especially when I am anxious) and during sleep too. Not to mention getting tongue on roof of mouth (this will be easier once I get the MSE out after retention period and my bite is aligned). Meditation is helping as well as mouth tape at night. Let me know if I can be of anymore help. Thanks, Ryan.
@@TheCrossfitter hi, sorry if i ask too many intrusive questions. was your MSE MARPE? did they drill screws into your palate? how old are you, if you don't mind me asking. how are there a few doctors at GELB center that does Marpe? THe doctor you used is different from the guy Jawhack used. and how long does it take to arrange an appointment to getting the Marpe in? I live n NYC too, and they still haven't responded to my online message request yet.
@@andyc3012 I used two MSE version II’s, at separate times of course. Started with a 6mm (maxed that puppy out) then popped in a 10mm (maxed her out too). It’s a form of MARPE. 4 screws drilled into my maxilla. They take CBCT to determine length drilled in, size of appliance, etc. I am 29 YO. If I understand your question correctly, yes there are several orthodontists at the Gelb center that are MSE providers and well experienced at that. Yes jawhacks worked with Dr. Newaz if I am not mistaken and I am working with Dr. Montrose who both work at the Gelb center. I would follow up with a call and ask to setup a consultation. If you decide to move forward with MSE, you are a good candidate, etc you usually will put down a deposit and then they send your CBCT out and the lab makes your custom MSE and sends back to the Gelb center for install (3-4 weeks approx). They will also apply spacers to the molars used for the arms of the appliance a week before MSE install to ease installation. They will take good care of you buddy. Thanks, Ryan.
Thank you for posting about your MSE journey! Please do let us know how your double-jaw surgery went. Interested how the whole thing came together in the end and if you're happy with the results.
Yes, exactly, I think imma have to do the same thing he’s doing, I’m so ready to breathe like normal person(which is abnormal these days according to Dr. Mew)
I’m about to watch all these videos. I’m getting a marpe device next Monday. I have sleep apnea and I can’t use my cpap. I had a balloon sinuplasty and then a year later I had my tonsils removed, a septoplasty, turbinate reduction, uvulapalatopharangoplasty and tongue reduction. Sleep apnea still present but holy crap I do not regret any of the surgieres as they have all helped me breathe so much better. I am starting my MARPE journey and I have a double jaw surgery too.
It's all a combination of everything!! Omg you sound like me exactly. I love what mse did for me but it didn't resolve everything. I think the tongue posture is waaaay more important than physicians want to admit. Now with my mse out I can feel my suture is still soft and I literally can change it with my tongue. I'm gearing up for djs also to fix my vme but I'm hoping that it will bring my to tongue further up into my maxilla at rest. And hoping the lefort will be able to further reshape and widen my maxilla so I have leverage for my tongue to swallow. I'm very adamant about communicating these things to my doctors because they can't feel the restrictions we have. Thank u for continuing to share your progress it helps us all.
Evan, your videos are so incredible and inspirational! I really admire your overall approach to improving sleep quality as well as your ability to think outside the box. I’ve been searching for answers to improve sleep quality with UARS for years off and on now with some improvement but no overall cure. I actually hadn’t even heard of MARPE until just last night and your videos have by far been the most helpful I’ve found on the internet. Thank you so much for all your research and information on the topic. Would love to hear more about how you’re doing on this journey! It’s always reassuring to know we’re not alone in this :).
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you so much! It’s awesome to finally find people who have a similar situation as mine. I actually do have a few questions if you ever get a free minute sometime. Is commenting on your RUclips videos the best way to reach you? Or do you prefer email/another platform for questions like that?
Hi Evan, I have gone through a series of DISEs and soft tissue surgeries trying to beat my OSA and UARS. I had multi-level obstruction and have had RFA to my turbinates and my tongue base, as well as a septoplasty, and tonsil removal. I recently was about to have more surgery when my surgeon's registrar said 'To be honest, you're a bit of a mystery. We've done all this work on you and you're still tired.' This was hard to hear as these guys are the UK's finest. I was insisting my tongue pushing up into my soft palate was the problem, so to prove it I took my 3d printed MAD and printed a pair of blocks that would allow force my jaw open by about 8mm at the mid point of my tongue. This extra space resulted in a dramatic improvement in my sleep quality. Last week they did additional work on my tongue, soft palate and turbinates, which has resulted in a massive improvement of sleep quality without needing my modified MAD. I think this wasn't detected because the tongue pushing into the soft palate during sleep wasn't something that was naturally manifesting during DISE. It could be that the reason you still need CPAP is that you're suffering with the same malady that is hard for your sleep surgeon to detect. I'm going in for my SARPE surgery next week and then double jaw surgery a year down the line. I hope your double jaw surgery goes well, and I'm sure that like me you'll be thankful for the end of your OSA/UARS.
Who was your team for doing this in the UK? My treatment and my life have been on hold for the last ten years because I couldn’t find help here in the UK.
@@flyondonnie9578 Hi, it depends on where in your airway the problem is. If it's soft tissue, then the UCLH sleep clinic is the place to go. If it's because of an issue caused by bone structure then the Chelsea and Westminster plastics department, under Mr Jonathan Collier is where you need. Look up the departments on the hospital websites so you can be confident about where you are asking your GP to refer you to. If your GP resists, nudge him/her toward the latest National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) guidelines that have recently changed; the now state that surgery should be considered as a first option for treatment of sleep apnea. CPAP doesn't work for everyone. It didn't for me, and I lost several years to trying to make it work and having medics not believe me when I said I was using it through the night and still was waking up exhausted. Good luck. There is an end to this nightmare. Once you get the right surgical help you'll be OK.
I'm getting the 6-screw next week and I was wondering if you could answer a few quick questions: - How many days did it take for you to see a gap? - You mentioned that the pain was about 8 hours vs. 2 hours for the 4-screw. Do you remember if it was the same amount of pain, just that it lasted longer? - Did your tongue get cut up from the side 2 screws? My first one failed because my bone towards the back is actually too thin (I'm also about to turn 30). So I had screw drag in the right back screw and the other 3 didn't do much. Crossing my fingers for this one.
So jealous of you, I've tried MSE/MARPE 3 times unsuccessfully, and then I went for SARPE (an angular one) with only 6mm gap between my front teeth, such a dissapointment, so much suffering.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 DOME indeed. Because there were no more turns on the poor device my ortho had me with. I wish I could go back in time and fix it. Maybe after my DJS?
@@ThisIsMyRoad why couldn't you have put in a new device to continue expanding? You can put in a new device while keeping your current 6 mm and adding to it
Hi Eva, your videos are incredible, and your experience is good, because I have the same problem as you, and I've been rowing for two years I sent you an email, hoping that we'll end up seeing the tunnel light.
I’m starting to wonder if when they realign your teeth to get rid of the gap it doesn’t close your airway back up too. Because your not The only person I’ve heard say that at first they were breathing better then ever, but once they got the braces to get rid of their gap, the breathing problems began again. Seems to me like those two things might go hand in hand🤔 I’m currently trying to decide the best suitable route myself, breathing has always been a major issue for me and now after a month of research I know why. It’s time to take action on my health. These videos provide hope instead of cope, thank you for being a great person👏💯❤️
Well the expander is kept in place during braces, so I think the expander would resist the force of the braces. And thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you have a good path forward :)
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ya that makes sense, have the breathing problems gotten better? That makes absolutely no sense how your breathing problems got better and then when you got braces they started getting worse again?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 should be skeletal, ortho seemed excited. Lol hope my teeth aren't shifting forward. I'm actually on my 2nd mse, first one maxed out but no diastema, so round two started hopefully this month or next
Hey Evan looking good! It’s been great getting to follow your journey. Did you have any procedures to aid the MSE like DOME? And have you seen any change in your cheek bones?
Do the turbinates have a finite size they can swell to, or do they enlarge to fit whatever the size of your nasal cavity is? Basically, if you have turbinate hypertrophy, would increasing the size of the nasal floor have a positive effect on the pathology?
Hey man, all the best for your MMA surgery. I just have few questions about your maxilla distraction if you have time. It's mostly about the mandible fate. 1) did you have any overbite ? 2) how much did you expand your maxilla (diastema) ? 3) Do you think, if you didn't have overbite and expanded a lot, that orthodontic treatment is better than going into the hassle of MSDO (mandible distraction). As far as I know, expanding the mandible surgically (sideways) is just to match the maxilla, it has no known health benefits other than maybe allow to have better nasal breathing allowing to expand more the palate. So if orthodontic is fine, no point imo.
1) yes. 2) about 8mm at IMW. 3) I completely agree with the MSDO point. I am not getting MSDO. I'm happy with my current orthodontic compensation. Maybe as the science and technology progresses, I'll reconsider mandibular expansion and maybe further maxillary expansion but for now, no.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey Evan how is your bite though? Since maxilla is wider than mandible I'm sure you have some problem while chewing food? Especially chewing solid food like meat 🍖? Do you think it can create problem in future ?
nice update Evan. I was wondering, if you had a deviated septum prior to marpe? and did it open up after marpe. also, did your head shorten? looks like it in the photos
Hey Evan, congrats on progressing through the treatment. My case is quite similar to yours and I was wondering how to get expansion. You only got expansion on maxilla but not on the jaw, right? Was it just not fitting before (maxilla was too narrow for jaw before)? Was wondering if you also had jaw expansion..
The maxilla is one of the two jaws. If you're referring to the mandible (lower jaw), correct: I did not expand my mandible. It's possible through a technique called MSDO but it's not the safest procedure.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Actually there is SFOT instead of MSDO, MSDO is only anterior so it doesn't really accomplish what we need. SFOT can do 4-6 mm total transverse widening, though the caveat is we don't have a lot of long-term data on stability / reabsorption. SFOT reinforces the alveolar complex and makes it bigger, i.e. more room to fit the teeth.
Did you ever get your turbinates treated? I’m waiting on my MSE to hopefully finish up improving my nasal breathing, but getting my nose fixed was life changing.
Evan! I’ve been watching a lot of your videos, thank you for posting your journey. Wasn’t sure if I missed it, but, did you get a surgically assisted cut with your MSE? Like cortipunctures?
Hey! Corticopuncture is not considered a surgical assist. I did not get corticopuncture on my first MSE, but I did get it on my second. My Ortho doesn't think it really helps.
Hi evan i want to ask you if you did digital scan before and after mini implants or just one digital scan? And if you put mini implants and the appliance the same day?
hello evan, why do you need double jaw surgery if mse corrected your upper jaw? i am asking because i am a similar case as yours. answer will be great :) good luck with your surgeries
Your smile looks great. I have a question that I’m having a hard time finding the answer to. I just had SARPE in June of this year and am just about finished turning. During this last week I noticed a bump in my left nostril that I could also feel on the outside base of the nostril that seemed large and painful. Then I noticed that my nose in the middle seemed to have no support and could push in or to the side in an odd manner. Upon looking up skeletal parts I think it is the nasal crest that moved from the center where the septum is to the middle of my left nostril. Mine seems to be quite the bump but you can’t really see from the outside much. My question is, when bone develops to fill in the space created, will it also recreate that crest that helps support the nose and septum, atleast in your experience did you notice that at all?
Hey evan, maybe its just me but i Dont understand how much you expanded your maxilla in actual numbers in milimeters? Like how much intermolar width have you had before and how much do you got after? Whats your start intermolar width before the expansion and how much is it now after the expansion? Would be very helpful if you may share because from your videos ive seen maybe ive missed it but i dont remember you mentioned it, so if you may share it would be great...
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey evan thank you for the response, i saw the video you mentioned but in that video the measurements you mentioned of the intermolar width are measured from the outside of the molars , meaning from the outside of the left molar to the outside of the right molar and not from the inside, you said you had 59 mm but its from the outside, meaning you also include the molar width not the width between them, i say this first because all the measurements we have in the groups of people who had those measurements are from the inside not the outside, the width between the molars not including with them, and secondly we have someone who have 59mm in the group measured from the inside and trust me it looks no way near like you he has so much width its crazy, what you basically did is included the width of the moalrs which means every molar is maybe like 8mm so you dont have 59 mm you probably have 43-46mm maximum, Now i respect you very much i really do dont get me wrong but the way you measured is completely different than how it usually done and its including like plus 16 mm of the width of both molars but its a different way of measurement so now i dont accurately know whats your real width since you include the molars width with it So again i Hope you dont get this the wrong way i really do, its just that on every possible place we talk about intermolar width we always measure from the first molars and always from the inside and never the outside, when i saw you said 59 mm i was like what ??? 59mm is crazy man we have one on a group you dont want to know how it looks like 💀💀💀 You have a great width and it creates a great wide smile 😁 it looks great on you and thats exactly what i wanted to know is how much width you have because it looks great on you, its like very good amount but not too much like ideal amount kind of , anyway much love.... thank you for sharing your content and experience 🙏🙏🙏
You can definitely see the difference in your appearance. You look good man. Much less tired looking, less flat of a face. Heck yes! I’m so excited to get my journey started. My jaw deformity has continued to get worse over the years. Your cheeks also look fuller. Is it normal to do expanding of the upper jaw then double jaw surgery as well? Does your insurance cover this? I’m starting my journey soon. Consult in a couple weeks.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that’s my biggest worry is the coverage part. I do have good insurance so I will see. My sleep, jaw pain, and sinus issues have continued to get worse over the years. And I just don’t look how i know im supposed to look if that makes sense. All of it has definitely had a somewhat negative impact on my mental health.
I watched your video, the Invisalign has widened your teeth but taken your jaw back which is the opposite of what you need. I estimate it is now over 12 millimetres too far back and you do not have room for your wisdom teeth. I don't know what surgery is planned but as an exsurgeon myself I think you will be disappointed. Prof Jon Mew.
Hi Dr.Mew. Yes both arches have been intentionally retracted. From what I understand, this is so that my MMA surgery can allow my jaws to advance as far as possible without having a portruding look to my incisors. Good point about the wisdom teeth, although all my wisdom teeth were extracted years ago. Still, I appreciate you insight. Thank you for your comment. Maybe I'll reach out after surgery and I can get your opinion on the result :) That would be helpful for me. I sure do have reservations about the surgery myself, but my sleep apnea symptoms are severe so I'm a bit desperate. Thanks again for your honesty.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Your incisors will only look protruded if you fail to develop a lip seal. Developing a natural one now would do more for your appearance than any surgery, which essentially treats your jaws not your face. Let me know afterwards if you think it was beneficial (and what it cost including your MARPE). Also remember that most surgery and orthodontic treatment relapses in the end. Postural correction does not. Prof John Mew
@@johnmew9980 Stfu john mew and show us a paper that says surgery relapses. You yourself still have very underdeveloped jaws, if mewing worked it would show on your face. seriously bro
Hello Evan, I have ideal occlusion and my teeth are pretty straight, but my upper palate is narrow, can I expand it using MSE ( I was told that I need around 5mm of expansion), without getting braces afterwards?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 i think your problem is your maxilla is pushed back, your wisdom teeth doesn't help to bring them forward. I rejected mse because doesn't change profile face, even it's worst afterwards. Even your first image your maxilla have a better protection. In my case, I'm on Invisalign and I had to stop the treatment because my incisors was pushing back when he try to wider my palate. I told him, if you want to open my upper arch just need to reopen my Premolars spaces. With new trays, I'm really fine and comfy. The secret is upper maxilla, u must bring it forward as much u can
Evan, I am 31. I got the 6 tad super screw Marpe installed 2 weeks ago and I got the split. My gap is about 2mm and I’m still turning about once every other day. My concerns, how long does the ortho take after the gap is done?
Congratulations! That's great news. The orthodontic treatment time varies a lot case to case and your orthodontist will have a much more accurate estimate than I could ever give.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you. I had an appoint with my ortho and about a couple days after he put braces on my top front 6 teeth. He told me to keep activating the screw every other day for the next 40 days. I’m concerned the braces might not allow my expansion to fully take place, should I be concerned of that?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 it’s definitely deeper. You look and seem better man. Hopefully things with sleep apnea, etc get better with the next upcoming surgery.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Wow...well thanks for the advice. Any suggestions on who to consult? I'm currently cutting ties with a general dentist who recommended AGGA, since I've heard from the yt channel Jaw Hacks that AGGA is not good. Should I be looking into traveling to meet an oral surgeon? I currently reside in the state of Hawaii.
@@tabletaccount2348 don't wait a few years, if you can afford it to do it right now, DO IT. I'm a 24 yo female and I was at the limit age for this procedure. Fortunately everything went smoothly and I'm glad I went through this process. I still plan to get a djs but that can wait a few years because is expected af. Your suture might be still soft enough to split it :)
The before/after in terms of palate width is insane. Congrats!
Wait so you're tongue pushing up was the problem? I'm not sure my tongue can reach my soft palate like that
Damn good to hear back from you bro, been following along with the journey. I can’t wait to see the results of your mma surgery. Maxilla looks so much better
Thanks :) Yeah I'm so hyped for it. Thanks for being a part of it all
I treat Sleep Apnea and UARS in my dental patients with oral appliance therapy, and I have to say that I am so fascinated with your experience! I love how you documented this entire process!
Glad to hear you enjoy it. It's great to hear about a dentist who cares and loves to learn. Gives me hope :)
Evan it’s so great to get an update! I’m grateful you had success expanding with your MARPE, are finishing up Invisalign, and now gearing up for double jaw surgery. All very exciting! I myself know this too well having finished up expansion with a 6mm and 10mm MSE through the Gelb center in New York and am now settling until Invisalign, getting used to everything, and adapting/healing but you must not focus too much on “how I’ll feel better WHEN I get double jaw surgery” or “I’ll be happy WHEN I do this,” etc. Stay in the moment and be grateful for what you have already achieved…more great things are on the way buddy!!!
I appreciate that. It's an important perspective, surely. :)
Will you be documenting your journey as well? :D
I’ve been working with Dr. Montrose and it has been a pleasure. Yes I’ve experienced quite the transformation. Breathing way better than before, not perfect, but moving in the right direction; have to retrain myself to breathe through my nose and into my belly (especially when I am anxious) and during sleep too. Not to mention getting tongue on roof of mouth (this will be easier once I get the MSE out after retention period and my bite is aligned). Meditation is helping as well as mouth tape at night. Let me know if I can be of anymore help. Thanks, Ryan.
@@TheCrossfitter hi, sorry if i ask too many intrusive questions.
was your MSE MARPE? did they drill screws into your palate? how old are you, if you don't mind me asking.
how are there a few doctors at GELB center that does Marpe? THe doctor you used is different from the guy Jawhack used.
and how long does it take to arrange an appointment to getting the Marpe in? I live n NYC too, and they still haven't responded to my online message request yet.
@@andyc3012 I used two MSE version II’s, at separate times of course. Started with a 6mm (maxed that puppy out) then popped in a 10mm (maxed her out too). It’s a form of MARPE. 4 screws drilled into my maxilla. They take CBCT to determine length drilled in, size of appliance, etc. I am 29 YO. If I understand your question correctly, yes there are several orthodontists at the Gelb center that are MSE providers and well experienced at that. Yes jawhacks worked with Dr. Newaz if I am not mistaken and I am working with Dr. Montrose who both work at the Gelb center. I would follow up with a call and ask to setup a consultation. If you decide to move forward with MSE, you are a good candidate, etc you usually will put down a deposit and then they send your CBCT out and the lab makes your custom MSE and sends back to the Gelb center for install (3-4 weeks approx). They will also apply spacers to the molars used for the arms of the appliance a week before MSE install to ease installation. They will take good care of you buddy. Thanks, Ryan.
Wow, those before-and-after shots are something to see! Great update!
Thank you for posting about your MSE journey! Please do let us know how your double-jaw surgery went. Interested how the whole thing came together in the end and if you're happy with the results.
Yes, exactly, I think imma have to do the same thing he’s doing, I’m so ready to breathe like normal person(which is abnormal these days according to Dr. Mew)
I’m about to watch all these videos. I’m getting a marpe device next Monday. I have sleep apnea and I can’t use my cpap. I had a balloon sinuplasty and then a year later I had my tonsils removed, a septoplasty, turbinate reduction, uvulapalatopharangoplasty and tongue reduction. Sleep apnea still present but holy crap I do not regret any of the surgieres as they have all helped me breathe so much better. I am starting my MARPE journey and I have a double jaw surgery too.
Yayy congratulations! I'm excited for you
You are a surgeons dream. Growth goes wrong naturally and surgery can never correct it and usually relapses in the long-term
It's all a combination of everything!! Omg you sound like me exactly. I love what mse did for me but it didn't resolve everything. I think the tongue posture is waaaay more important than physicians want to admit. Now with my mse out I can feel my suture is still soft and I literally can change it with my tongue. I'm gearing up for djs also to fix my vme but I'm hoping that it will bring my to tongue further up into my maxilla at rest. And hoping the lefort will be able to further reshape and widen my maxilla so I have leverage for my tongue to swallow. I'm very adamant about communicating these things to my doctors because they can't feel the restrictions we have. Thank u for continuing to share your progress it helps us all.
I relate!! Haha. Sounds like you have a good plan and you're learning and advocating for yourself. Great work! Wishing you the best!
You can’t breathe better after MSE?
@Bigdino i definitely can my nasal passages feel wider.
Evan, your videos are so incredible and inspirational! I really admire your overall approach to improving sleep quality as well as your ability to think outside the box. I’ve been searching for answers to improve sleep quality with UARS for years off and on now with some improvement but no overall cure.
I actually hadn’t even heard of MARPE until just last night and your videos have by far been the most helpful I’ve found on the internet. Thank you so much for all your research and information on the topic. Would love to hear more about how you’re doing on this journey! It’s always reassuring to know we’re not alone in this :).
I'm so glad they helped! Thank you for the feedback! Welcome to the community and let me know if you need anything. Good luck on your journey.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you so much! It’s awesome to finally find people who have a similar situation as mine. I actually do have a few questions if you ever get a free minute sometime.
Is commenting on your RUclips videos the best way to reach you? Or do you prefer email/another platform for questions like that?
Smile looks much better, much broader.
I'm getting my MSE installed next month!!! 25 y/o male but I was told my bones are actually quite thin so hopefully all goes smoothly 🤞
Complete opposite for me, my ortho was surprised with how dense my bones are lol
Hi Evan, I have gone through a series of DISEs and soft tissue surgeries trying to beat my OSA and UARS. I had multi-level obstruction and have had RFA to my turbinates and my tongue base, as well as a septoplasty, and tonsil removal. I recently was about to have more surgery when my surgeon's registrar said 'To be honest, you're a bit of a mystery. We've done all this work on you and you're still tired.' This was hard to hear as these guys are the UK's finest. I was insisting my tongue pushing up into my soft palate was the problem, so to prove it I took my 3d printed MAD and printed a pair of blocks that would allow force my jaw open by about 8mm at the mid point of my tongue. This extra space resulted in a dramatic improvement in my sleep quality. Last week they did additional work on my tongue, soft palate and turbinates, which has resulted in a massive improvement of sleep quality without needing my modified MAD.
I think this wasn't detected because the tongue pushing into the soft palate during sleep wasn't something that was naturally manifesting during DISE. It could be that the reason you still need CPAP is that you're suffering with the same malady that is hard for your sleep surgeon to detect.
I'm going in for my SARPE surgery next week and then double jaw surgery a year down the line. I hope your double jaw surgery goes well, and I'm sure that like me you'll be thankful for the end of your OSA/UARS.
Wow good on you. Very impressive. I'm glad you took matters into your own hands and got a real answer. That's really awesome to hear, thanks.
Who was your team for doing this in the UK? My treatment and my life have been on hold for the last ten years because I couldn’t find help here in the UK.
@@flyondonnie9578 Hi, it depends on where in your airway the problem is. If it's soft tissue, then the UCLH sleep clinic is the place to go. If it's because of an issue caused by bone structure then the Chelsea and Westminster plastics department, under Mr Jonathan Collier is where you need. Look up the departments on the hospital websites so you can be confident about where you are asking your GP to refer you to. If your GP resists, nudge him/her toward the latest National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) guidelines that have recently changed; the now state that surgery should be considered as a first option for treatment of sleep apnea. CPAP doesn't work for everyone. It didn't for me, and I lost several years to trying to make it work and having medics not believe me when I said I was using it through the night and still was waking up exhausted.
Good luck. There is an end to this nightmare. Once you get the right surgical help you'll be OK.
I'm getting the 6-screw next week and I was wondering if you could answer a few quick questions:
- How many days did it take for you to see a gap?
- You mentioned that the pain was about 8 hours vs. 2 hours for the 4-screw. Do you remember if it was the same amount of pain, just that it lasted longer?
- Did your tongue get cut up from the side 2 screws?
My first one failed because my bone towards the back is actually too thin (I'm also about to turn 30). So I had screw drag in the right back screw and the other 3 didn't do much. Crossing my fingers for this one.
Same level/intensity of pain*
- 3 weeks
- more pain and longer.
- a bit of soreness but not really.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks for the info! I didn't take any pain killers last time and was fine. Maybe I should prepare some this time around.
So jealous of you, I've tried MSE/MARPE 3 times unsuccessfully, and then I went for SARPE (an angular one) with only 6mm gap between my front teeth, such a dissapointment, so much suffering.
Wow. What do you mean by angular SARPE? DOME? Btw, why did the sarpe stop at 6mm?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 DOME indeed.
Because there were no more turns on the poor device my ortho had me with.
I wish I could go back in time and fix it. Maybe after my DJS?
@@ThisIsMyRoad why couldn't you have put in a new device to continue expanding? You can put in a new device while keeping your current 6 mm and adding to it
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Exactly that was our mistake, I had to tell me ortho what to do all the time, to direct him, so dissapointed :\
@@ThisIsMyRoad geeze wow that's so disappointing. Sorry to hear that
Hi Eva, your videos are incredible, and your experience is good, because I have the same problem as you, and I've been rowing for two years I sent you an email, hoping that we'll end up seeing the tunnel light.
You're gonna get there bro! No doubt 💪💪
I'm going to get a marpe. I'm a bit scared. Your videos are very helpful
I’m starting to wonder if when they realign your teeth to get rid of the gap it doesn’t close your airway back up too. Because your not The only person I’ve heard say that at first they were breathing better then ever, but once they got the braces to get rid of their gap, the breathing problems began again. Seems to me like those two things might go hand in hand🤔 I’m currently trying to decide the best suitable route myself, breathing has always been a major issue for me and now after a month of research I know why. It’s time to take action on my health. These videos provide hope instead of cope, thank you for being a great person👏💯❤️
Well the expander is kept in place during braces, so I think the expander would resist the force of the braces. And thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you have a good path forward :)
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ya that makes sense, have the breathing problems gotten better? That makes absolutely no sense how your breathing problems got better and then when you got braces they started getting worse again?
and how much time did you have all of that, why nobody talks about the time???!!!
Brilliant results! how long was the whole process from start to finish including Invisalign?
Less than a year. Maybe 8 months?
I'm currently doing mse with FM. Got 1.5mm of forward growth in 3 months at 24(m) pretty good so far.
Is that forward growth orthodontic movement or actually skeletal movement? Got any scans?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 should be skeletal, ortho seemed excited. Lol hope my teeth aren't shifting forward. I'm actually on my 2nd mse, first one maxed out but no diastema, so round two started hopefully this month or next
@@SecretMountainTroll id love to see overlaid scans
Woahh, that’s awesome dude. Have you done any chewing alongside face mask?
Have you seen improvements with your under eyes if they were/are a little hollow?
Hey Evan looking good! It’s been great getting to follow your journey. Did you have any procedures to aid the MSE like DOME? And have you seen any change in your cheek bones?
Thanks! No and no.
Good luck with surgery!! Your smile looks much wider!!!! :))
Thanks Mike!
Thanks for sharing your experience with the world mate. This might be a dumb question but is a palatal expander the same thing as MSE?
MSE is a specific brand/type of palatal expander. Palatal expander is an umbrella term.
Phenomenal! Did it improve nose breathing?
Yes!
Do the turbinates have a finite size they can swell to, or do they enlarge to fit whatever the size of your nasal cavity is? Basically, if you have turbinate hypertrophy, would increasing the size of the nasal floor have a positive effect on the pathology?
I've wondered that myself and have no clue :/
Hey man, all the best for your MMA surgery. I just have few questions about your maxilla distraction if you have time. It's mostly about the mandible fate.
1) did you have any overbite ?
2) how much did you expand your maxilla (diastema) ?
3) Do you think, if you didn't have overbite and expanded a lot, that orthodontic treatment is better than going into the hassle of MSDO (mandible distraction).
As far as I know, expanding the mandible surgically (sideways) is just to match the maxilla, it has no known health benefits other than maybe allow to have better nasal breathing allowing to expand more the palate. So if orthodontic is fine, no point imo.
1) yes. 2) about 8mm at IMW. 3) I completely agree with the MSDO point. I am not getting MSDO. I'm happy with my current orthodontic compensation. Maybe as the science and technology progresses, I'll reconsider mandibular expansion and maybe further maxillary expansion but for now, no.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey Evan how is your bite though? Since maxilla is wider than mandible I'm sure you have some problem while chewing food? Especially chewing solid food like meat 🍖?
Do you think it can create problem in future ?
@@sanemonk1 no problems now but maybe problems in the future idk
Please nobody ever get msdo, completely inferior to bimax/bsso and other procedures also. the visual results would result in a rounded chin as well
nice update Evan.
I was wondering, if you had a deviated septum prior to marpe? and did it open up after marpe.
also, did your head shorten? looks like it in the photos
I had turb reduction and septoplasty a few years ago, yes. Also no my head did not shorten
Hey Evan, congrats on progressing through the treatment. My case is quite similar to yours and I was wondering how to get expansion. You only got expansion on maxilla but not on the jaw, right? Was it just not fitting before (maxilla was too narrow for jaw before)? Was wondering if you also had jaw expansion..
The maxilla is one of the two jaws. If you're referring to the mandible (lower jaw), correct: I did not expand my mandible. It's possible through a technique called MSDO but it's not the safest procedure.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Actually there is SFOT instead of MSDO, MSDO is only anterior so it doesn't really accomplish what we need. SFOT can do 4-6 mm total transverse widening, though the caveat is we don't have a lot of long-term data on stability / reabsorption. SFOT reinforces the alveolar complex and makes it bigger, i.e. more room to fit the teeth.
@@shuikai272 yeah that too! Good point!
Did you ever get your turbinates treated? I’m waiting on my MSE to hopefully finish up improving my nasal breathing, but getting my nose fixed was life changing.
I got turbinate reduction and it did nothing for me unfortunately.
Evan! I’ve been watching a lot of your videos, thank you for posting your journey.
Wasn’t sure if I missed it, but, did you get a surgically assisted cut with your MSE? Like cortipunctures?
Hey! Corticopuncture is not considered a surgical assist. I did not get corticopuncture on my first MSE, but I did get it on my second. My Ortho doesn't think it really helps.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ah I see, because I’m considering going that route since EASE is way too pricy for me. Thank you!! :)
Hi evan i want to ask you if you did digital scan before and after mini implants or just one digital scan? And if you put mini implants and the appliance the same day?
hello evan, why do you need double jaw surgery if mse corrected your upper jaw? i am asking because i am a similar case as yours. answer will be great :) good luck with your surgeries
Double jaw surgery and MSE treat two different jaw deficiencies. MSE expands your jaw while double jaw surgery brings your jaws forward
Your smile looks great. I have a question that I’m having a hard time finding the answer to. I just had SARPE in June of this year and am just about finished turning. During this last week I noticed a bump in my left nostril that I could also feel on the outside base of the nostril that seemed large and painful. Then I noticed that my nose in the middle seemed to have no support and could push in or to the side in an odd manner. Upon looking up skeletal parts I think it is the nasal crest that moved from the center where the septum is to the middle of my left nostril. Mine seems to be quite the bump but you can’t really see from the outside much. My question is, when bone develops to fill in the space created, will it also recreate that crest that helps support the nose and septum, atleast in your experience did you notice that at all?
Hmm I'm sorry this is above my knowledge. Wish I could help.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that’s okay I thought I would ask :) I have an appointment Friday and I can let you know what they say is going on
@@jenniferholbrook7688 please do
Why do you think your nasal breathing hasn't maintained the initial benefits?
CPAP + OSA but maybe more idk
How was your surgery? Hope u doing great!
Recovery is tough but the operation went well and I'm on my way towards a better life now :) thank you
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I hope so too! Was it a double jaw surgery os just he maxilla?
@@joaopaulooh6135 djs
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I hope you are finally comfortably breathing trough your nose now! That’s one of the reasons I want that surgery myself
Please post your DISE in another video. It would be great to see what's going on
Yep that video will go live tmrw morning. I don't have the video of the actual dise view tho, just what they told me
@@evanlavizadeh4032 As a patient, you have the right to your video. You should get it if you ask me.
@@shankar0cr I agree. I haven't even asked. Just lot on my mind lately. I will
Hey evan, maybe its just me but i Dont understand how much you expanded your maxilla in actual numbers in milimeters?
Like how much intermolar width have you had before and how much do you got after?
Whats your start intermolar width before the expansion and how much is it now after the expansion?
Would be very helpful if you may share because from your videos ive seen maybe ive missed it but i dont remember you mentioned it, so if you may share it would be great...
I have a video on that already. Has "let's check the scans" in the title.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey evan thank you for the response, i saw the video you mentioned but in that video the measurements you mentioned of the intermolar width are measured from the outside of the molars ,
meaning from the outside of the left molar to the outside of the right molar and not from the inside, you said you had 59 mm but its from the outside, meaning you also include the molar width not the width between them,
i say this first because all the measurements we have in the groups of people who had those measurements are from the inside not the outside, the width between the molars not including with them, and secondly we have someone who have 59mm in the group measured from the inside and trust me it looks no way near like you he has so much width its crazy, what you basically did is included the width of the moalrs which means every molar is maybe like 8mm so you dont have 59 mm you probably have 43-46mm maximum,
Now i respect you very much i really do dont get me wrong but the way you measured is completely different than how it usually done and its including like plus 16 mm of the width of both molars but its a different way of measurement so now i dont accurately know whats your real width since you include the molars width with it
So again i Hope you dont get this the wrong way i really do, its just that on every possible place we talk about intermolar width we always measure from the first molars and always from the inside and never the outside, when i saw you said 59 mm i was like what ??? 59mm is crazy man we have one on a group you dont want to know how it looks like 💀💀💀
You have a great width and it creates a great wide smile 😁 it looks great on you and thats exactly what i wanted to know is how much width you have because it looks great on you, its like very good amount but not too much like ideal amount kind of , anyway much love.... thank you for sharing your content and experience 🙏🙏🙏
What is the reason for doing this? Is it function or only aesthetic? Do you follow John and Mike Mew?
To address my obstructive sleep apnea
hey evan. did you have nasal collapse before expansion and if so, did expansion reduce/eliminate nasal collapse?
Yes and yes!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you so much for your comment! i hope your well. your videos have been great for me on my journey.
@@p4ncakefather I have been, likewise! And thanks for the kind words!
How did your djs go evan?
Hi. Did you notice any facial asymmetry during & after using MSE?
nope :)
Did it change the asymmetry of the eyes or cheekbones at all? Did you notice changes in the upper mid face?
Nope
@@evanlavizadeh4032 did you already a get the double jaw surgery?
Hi, I'm wondering if it's possible to mew (placing the tongue on the roof of the mouth) while having the expander.
Not really. Like...kinda but no.
How long did it take for your front teeth to close back?
Like 2 months
@@evanlavizadeh4032 but after how long since they toke off the mse appliance? I feel like I can't smile with this huge gap lol.
@@HelianaFranko my front teeth closed back with Invisalign BEFORE they took off the expander. Not after.
Great to hear
Hi, which orthodontist did u use for ur mse and marpe?
Dr. Audrey Yoon
You can definitely see the difference in your appearance. You look good man. Much less tired looking, less flat of a face. Heck yes! I’m so excited to get my journey started. My jaw deformity has continued to get worse over the years. Your cheeks also look fuller. Is it normal to do expanding of the upper jaw then double jaw surgery as well? Does your insurance cover this? I’m starting my journey soon. Consult in a couple weeks.
It's pretty common for people to do maxillary expansion and then double jaw surgery, yes. And yes surgery covers it but it can be a pain sometimes
@@evanlavizadeh4032 that’s my biggest worry is the coverage part. I do have good insurance so I will see. My sleep, jaw pain, and sinus issues have continued to get worse over the years. And I just don’t look how i know im supposed to look if that makes sense. All of it has definitely had a somewhat negative impact on my mental health.
@@mikelangenfeld4598 are you diagnosed with sleep apnea?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 yes I am.
I watched your video, the Invisalign has widened your teeth but taken your jaw back which is the opposite of what you need. I estimate it is now over 12 millimetres too far back and you do not have room for your wisdom teeth. I don't know what surgery is planned but as an exsurgeon myself I think you will be disappointed. Prof Jon Mew.
Hi Dr.Mew. Yes both arches have been intentionally retracted. From what I understand, this is so that my MMA surgery can allow my jaws to advance as far as possible without having a portruding look to my incisors. Good point about the wisdom teeth, although all my wisdom teeth were extracted years ago. Still, I appreciate you insight. Thank you for your comment. Maybe I'll reach out after surgery and I can get your opinion on the result :) That would be helpful for me. I sure do have reservations about the surgery myself, but my sleep apnea symptoms are severe so I'm a bit desperate. Thanks again for your honesty.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Your incisors will only look protruded if you fail to develop a lip seal. Developing a natural one now would do more for your appearance than any surgery, which essentially treats your jaws not your face. Let me know afterwards if you think it was beneficial (and what it cost including your MARPE). Also remember that most surgery and orthodontic treatment relapses in the end. Postural correction does not. Prof John Mew
@@johnmew9980 Stfu john mew and show us a paper that says surgery relapses. You yourself still have very underdeveloped jaws, if mewing worked it would show on your face. seriously bro
@@nikos4641 many mma surgeries relapse due to prior wisdom teeth extraction. Wisdom teeth are important for facial/cranial development
@@evanlavizadeh4032 wisdom teeth implants before mma will keep jaw from relapsing
So you go to duble jaw surgery with class 1 bite?
what cosmetic changes have you noticed
Nothing besides my smile
Hello Evan, I have ideal occlusion and my teeth are pretty straight, but my upper palate is narrow, can I expand it using MSE ( I was told that I need around 5mm of expansion), without getting braces afterwards?
Why would you want that? You'd have a big gap between your two front teeth.
Don't the teeth naturally close the gap over a couple weeks/months after expansion has finished?
@@Rockcafe20 a little bit but usually not fully.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I Just don't want the braces to be pulling inwards on my teeth which would recess my chin and jaw. What do you think?
@@Rockcafe20 ehhh that doesn't happen unless you're a small child.
They you pull out your wisdom teeth?
Yes years ago
@@evanlavizadeh4032 i think your problem is your maxilla is pushed back, your wisdom teeth doesn't help to bring them forward. I rejected mse because doesn't change profile face, even it's worst afterwards.
Even your first image your maxilla have a better protection.
In my case, I'm on Invisalign and I had to stop the treatment because my incisors was pushing back when he try to wider my palate. I told him, if you want to open my upper arch just need to reopen my Premolars spaces. With new trays, I'm really fine and comfy. The secret is upper maxilla, u must bring it forward as much u can
I don't think surgery is necessary in your case. But your palate is unnatural I think
@@Byemiek it's not possible to move the maxilla without surgery
@@Byemiek I don't understand your reasoning why you would need premolars back to stop a pushback?
What is that upcoming double jaw surgery you're talking about?
Maxillomandibular advancement. I had it already
Evan, I am 31. I got the 6 tad super screw Marpe installed 2 weeks ago and I got the split. My gap is about 2mm and I’m still turning about once every other day. My concerns, how long does the ortho take after the gap is done?
Congratulations! That's great news. The orthodontic treatment time varies a lot case to case and your orthodontist will have a much more accurate estimate than I could ever give.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you. I had an appoint with my ortho and about a couple days after he put braces on my top front 6 teeth. He told me to keep activating the screw every other day for the next 40 days. I’m concerned the braces might not allow my expansion to fully take place, should I be concerned of that?
@@mldn007 it's not unheard of to do expansion with braces in but it does seem like a bit of an odd way to do things. But I wouldn't know. Sorry.
Your voice even sounds deeper then before you got this surgery. Or is that just me?!?
I don't notice a difference but maybe?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 it’s definitely deeper. You look and seem better man. Hopefully things with sleep apnea, etc get better with the next upcoming surgery.
@@mikelangenfeld4598 I appreciate the support :)
Is insurance covering your double jaw surgery?
Yes but I'm going out of network so no. I could get it covered but I wanted a specific surgeon that my insurance won't cover
@@evanlavizadeh4032 do you have to have severe sleep apnea to get it covered or is it ok if you have mild osa?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 how much was it? And who was your surgeon?
quick question how old are you? just asking cuz im 22 and im interested in getting MSE but im thinking of waiting it out a few years...cheers.
28. Are you male or female?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks mate. I'm a male. Really hesitant but wanna do it eventually.
@@tabletaccount2348 the sooner the better. The longer you wait, the higher chance of failure. 25 is when it starts to have a much higher failure rate
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Wow...well thanks for the advice. Any suggestions on who to consult? I'm currently cutting ties with a general dentist who recommended AGGA, since I've heard from the yt channel Jaw Hacks that AGGA is not good. Should I be looking into traveling to meet an oral surgeon? I currently reside in the state of Hawaii.
@@tabletaccount2348 don't wait a few years, if you can afford it to do it right now, DO IT. I'm a 24 yo female and I was at the limit age for this procedure. Fortunately everything went smoothly and I'm glad I went through this process. I still plan to get a djs but that can wait a few years because is expected af. Your suture might be still soft enough to split it :)
Why are you doing surgery?
For sleep apnea
@@evanlavizadeh4032 you mean for sept deviation?
@@anotherone9219 no. Jaw surgery
What is the difference between DNA,ALF and AGGA?
I don't know the difference between those 3
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you, maybe a viewer does.... Interested in seeing your progress. Still hoping you become a world leader someday too!
@@letts3299 haha sounds stressful :P
@@evanlavizadeh4032 It would be for a good one!
Can palate expander widen jaw ?
Did you have a tongue tie release?
No
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Have you looked into that as a possible co-issue? Lots of times the tongue tie is the root cause of palate issues…
@@JSA683 I'm already cured!
you didt have extractions rights?
All wisdom teeth
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ph! What do you think ablut BAMP n adults?
@@yolarola6261 never heard of it til now. Just looked it up but I don't have an opinion.
Omg what. Your double jaw surgery is this week?!?
Thursday 😎
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Duuuude good luck!!!
@@slowlynow9 thank you!
@@slowlynow9 Evan Lavizadeh: Can't wait to see!
Can MSE cause TMJ and tinnitus?
TMD, not TMJ. I don't think there's really any evidence to say one way or the other.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 apparently a misaligned bite can cause that and MSE misaligns your bite
@@bigdino475 seems possible.
Did you feel a lift in your cheekBones
No
is your mma still gonna happen?
It happened 4 months ago
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ah nice! will u be making an update vid? Also did u ever try face mask I can’t remember?
@@James_David Yes, I will make another video. No, I did not try face mask
@@evanlavizadeh4032 cool looking forward to it
How old are you?
28
You should just look at expanding your mandible now.....watch jaw hacks
I'm familiar with mandibular expansion but that didn't end up being the right choice for me.