This really shows how quickly, even on a straightforward class 3 run, things can go south very quickly and have serious consequences. Kudos for keeping a cool head and glad all was well with a successful outcome.
Huge long arguments can be had on the topic. In this case I was semi-alone. There were 3 people literally 2 minutes behind me. That said the entire pin was ~90 seconds. Would they have been able to get to me and help me out if they had been right behind me in boats? Would they have run into me and pushed me under? You can never know. I am a huge advocate of always being self-reliant, even in a crowd. Often people can see you but are not able to do much for you. If you are going into scary places thinking the crowd will get you out you're nuts.
I hit a log just under the surface horizontal across the whole river, you couldn't see it until you were right there. I was in a half slice I tried to boof it but instead my stern subbed out and before I even knew what was happening me and the entire boat was pulled under the log. luckily there were no branches so other than being ripped out of my boat we both came out fine. Still it looked flat on slow water and still had the power to do that. I'm glad you are okay.
5:58 "Ok...." i laughed hard ♥ you took that one well. got really scary though from 6:25 when your head clearly barely sits on top of the water. you probably had your chin already dipped by then. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah I have my moments lol. Yeah without the sound you might not realize just how little room I had to work with. I was looking downstream because that was the only way I could breathe
Been there done that learned the lesson! We did a run with a easy but long low angle slide. It was clean the month before when we ran it but there had been a big rain storm since. We didn’t scout because hey it’s easy. A quarter of the way down the slide I saw there was a log across the whole bottom bank to bank at river level. I actually pulled my skirt before I hit the log and barrel rolled myself over the log as I hit it my kayak pinning below. A good lesson and lucky in didn’t cost me my life. Oh and buy a Ford F-150 key pad entry means you can leave the keys in the truck! 😂
Yeah so I was hanging in there as long as I could knowing that my friends were right behind me. I had 2 things I was waiting on to trigger a swim- not being able to reach the pull tab, and not being able to breathe. They happened around the same time. Once I pulled and I started wiggling out i realized that I was actually taking the skirt off my body. The skirt had been trapped under the log and was still on my cockpit on one front corner. I had to push the boat down and pull at the same time to free the skirt before I could get the rest of the way out and climb over the log.
About that paddle you are using. I am planning on getting one, but then a guy at the store mentioned it isn't good for Creeking, which is all we have in Utah. Is that true, or is he misinformed?
You know my first go-round with the Surge I didn't see myself using it often. Right now I've broken my way through my Shogun stash and the Surge is all I have left. I do find myself going faster, and I am learning to get pretty good with the Surge, but for legit hard-core paddling I would always pick a straight shaft Shogun. Definitely a "better vs best" situation. I really like that the Surge punishes you for poor form, and forces you to be your best version of yourself, but it isn't going to be that ridiculously reliable workhorse that will grab like it has claws in all situations and get you out of bad situations.
Those "short" logs without branches are the worst. You don't have any warning and they often pin vertically just like that one. Great job staying cool and glad you're ok.
I appreciate your reply. I was not being critical of your decisions in this video. I was only referring to my past decisions to go alone on a stretch of class 2-3 whitewater. About 1 mile past my take out there is a dam and nothing to stop about 2k worth of equipment from getting sucked up and destroyed or lost. Downed trees are always a changing hazard and poor water clarity makes them harder to identify. Luckily you had friends who could help recover gear quickly. I agree that being self reliant and having self rescue skills are essential because it is doubtful that the fastest rescue help will be able to respond in time to prevent a drownding when someone becomes entrapped in a whitewater situation. If this can happen to an experienced paddler like you it could certainly also happen to me.
John I was not at all upset or offended. I was simply saying that yes, it is and will be an ongoing topic. Most likely I will touch on it in another off-river talking video. What really scares me is the prevalence of solo, and uneducated groups of, paddlers who are new to the sport and have no idea of what to do in the case of an emergency. An example comes to mind of a bunch of boaters in Arkansas(?) who were wildly offended when told they needed helmets. How dare us internet people tell them they need a helmet to run something that they have been doing "safely" for 2 years!?
at 6:07 you get a somewhat good look at that tree, looks like it might not be too much work to remove it . maybe worth a try on someones next run? because there clearly are less experienced paddlers to be expected on this section who might not be able to deal with that same situation.
Yeah the plan is to hike in with a chainsaw and break up all the wood in here once the water goes down. From there we will go hit some other problem areas in our creeks
A wise man once warned me "it's all good until it's not.." Pretty funny reaction in the moment there Alex, "okay?!” lol then "alright" It's like the river was being awkward or something You lost your paddle and the boat disappeared completely and in my assessment you did very well given the situation lucky you were right side up I noticed you saying class 3 this river seemed perfect to me in terms of water level, more time will enlighten me I'm sure but I still have issue with the designations feeling non universal like class 3 from one person being a class 4 from another. Even after watching you video where you go into detail about the liability of clear labeling I still struggle to understand. Boats seem to be designed to class specs but yet to a new person it seems situational or something idk Anyway I don't think class 4 is on my near agenda if this is class 3 Would love to go into detail with someone being able to gauge the water so I don't get in over my head or something when planning trips (Submerged tree trunks and randomly changing river dynamics being a constant variable of course so even a class 1 or 2 could be fatality under-respected) Thanks for sharing
Additionally I got to thinking and I wonder about the same river but different sized and types of boats skewing the classification further. A line would be obvious in a sit on top larger boat where you have a good vantage point but not as obvious seated closer to the water level in a sit inside? The more I learn the less I seem to know ...
So again, return to the AW definition when in question. The rating system indicates more about the need to scout and hazard avoidance than required technical ability/skill. In this case there were clear hazards that were not in the way of the line. My first run I was catching eddies which is how I found that log. The second run when we just blasted down the center we didn't encounter any issues. And no, the boat you paddle can make something easier or harder to make the line, but the line itself does not change. Therefore a rapid doesn't go up or down a class when you paddle a different boat. Good questions!
@@AlexBarham Good reminder, after looking up the rivers I paddled under the AW map it seems that I'm around class 2 with a possible exception of maybe 2-3 class 3 rapids under my belt. The complexity of the flow vs the width and obstruction in the river is I guess what throws me off Does a river classification ever change based off of time of year? I recently ran the a section of the feather river in California a few days in a row and at times it was quite bony (although still worth it) There was a time the river caught me sleeping and I suddenly approached large obstruction in the form of a fallen tree I almost dropped Bob the Chihuahua and had to choose between paddling or grabbing the dog We hit some branches.. Class 2 (Humbling in front of friends so I can relate to your "I almost died on a class 3 in front of my friends "comment ) Funny thing is that was the second time through but the first time through I didn't even notice the obstruction because it was dark as we went through and my line was better (poor timing) With the angle it was at and the main flow of the river I am not sure if it would even be an issue at higher flows because the river could be 20 feet higher I love the sport so far and I appreciate your feedback I will be seeking some sort of training next year when I get back to it. But in the mean time I'm going to click on all of Alex Barham videos due to your straightforward approach and welcoming nature as well as all of River Kings videos for his technical approach and great sense of humor. Overall I think every person should hit the paddles I've encouraged several trips this year borrowing boats and dealing with the issues of private property put ins as well as some pretty heavy portages with a feel free lure up and over dams and trails with camping gear. Part of the attraction to the sport is the unknown and also the adventure. Thanks for your time and I look forward to more videos
Yes, a river can jump up or down grades with flow. Again, all depends on the features. A single dry rock could make a huge hole at flood, or a random boof spot could be a massive sieve at low water. Well thanks for watching man. I try. Didn't realize River Kings were getting into whitewater. I thought they did flat water vlogs with shockingly large viewership. I worry whether they are putting out accurate info, but welcome more exposure to whitewater!
This really shows how quickly, even on a straightforward class 3 run, things can go south very quickly and have serious consequences. Kudos for keeping a cool head and glad all was well with a successful outcome.
Thanks! Yeah by the time you realize the hazard it can be too late
That was super scary. Glad you are ok. Good self recovery skills!
Definitely not fun. Thanks man!
Glad you are OK, this makes me rethink going kayaking alone.
Huge long arguments can be had on the topic. In this case I was semi-alone. There were 3 people literally 2 minutes behind me. That said the entire pin was ~90 seconds. Would they have been able to get to me and help me out if they had been right behind me in boats? Would they have run into me and pushed me under? You can never know.
I am a huge advocate of always being self-reliant, even in a crowd. Often people can see you but are not able to do much for you. If you are going into scary places thinking the crowd will get you out you're nuts.
such a good guy. taking a break in the middle of his run to go home and check on his kitties
We are all about the pets on the Moose lol. Total zoo up here!
I hit a log just under the surface horizontal across the whole river, you couldn't see it until you were right there. I was in a half slice I tried to boof it but instead my stern subbed out and before I even knew what was happening me and the entire boat was pulled under the log. luckily there were no branches so other than being ripped out of my boat we both came out fine. Still it looked flat on slow water and still had the power to do that. I'm glad you are okay.
It really doesn't take much when you're squished like a bug between an unyielding object and an unstoppable force
Sketchyyyyyyyy..glad you're ok!! Beautiful footage tho
Thanks!
Damn! Glad that worked out.
That makes 2 of us!
Hey Alex can you reply or maybe post another vid with you walking us through what you were doing and what was happening? Thanks
Yeah that will probably happen as part of a larger video!
Great video
Thanks Tim!
5:58 "Ok...." i laughed hard ♥
you took that one well.
got really scary though from 6:25 when your head clearly barely sits on top of the water. you probably had your chin already dipped by then.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah I have my moments lol.
Yeah without the sound you might not realize just how little room I had to work with. I was looking downstream because that was the only way I could breathe
I’m sure you’ve hit that eddy 100 times before. Wood sucks, Glad things worked out.
Actually I never run this section. More of a "Even the easy stuff can be dangerous" lesson
I would have used a lot more expletives! Glad you are ok.
Lol thanks man
i love how wholesome you are in your review videos, but on the water you curse like a sailor
Soooo guilty. Literally started from my first sentence.
Less than three. There never should be 😉 looks like you’re enjoying the new Antix
There were 4 of us
Yup! Not bad at all!
Been there done that learned the lesson! We did a run with a easy but long low angle slide. It was clean the month before when we ran it but there had been a big rain storm since. We didn’t scout because hey it’s easy. A quarter of the way down the slide I saw there was a log across the whole bottom bank to bank at river level. I actually pulled my skirt before I hit the log and barrel rolled myself over the log as I hit it my kayak pinning below. A good lesson and lucky in didn’t cost me my life.
Oh and buy a Ford F-150 key pad entry means you can leave the keys in the truck! 😂
Damn that was scarey. Happened to me on a run and my paddle never came out so I had to hike like 5 miles out with my boat.
It happens. In this case I knew it would dry up somewhere. Orange blades came in handy!
Great demo
I try lol
You probably have a video coming soon but What are your thoughts on rewind vs antix now that you have had ample seat time in both?
I think that the width tells the whole story. The Rewind is more sporty, the Antix really comes across as the new and improved Axiom.
That was sketch, happened so fast. Glad you are ok
Thanks Blake!
Dude! that was a surprise. Did you say your skirt was got stuck as well?
Yeah so I was hanging in there as long as I could knowing that my friends were right behind me. I had 2 things I was waiting on to trigger a swim- not being able to reach the pull tab, and not being able to breathe. They happened around the same time.
Once I pulled and I started wiggling out i realized that I was actually taking the skirt off my body. The skirt had been trapped under the log and was still on my cockpit on one front corner. I had to push the boat down and pull at the same time to free the skirt before I could get the rest of the way out and climb over the log.
About that paddle you are using. I am planning on getting one, but then a guy at the store mentioned it isn't good for Creeking, which is all we have in Utah. Is that true, or is he misinformed?
You know my first go-round with the Surge I didn't see myself using it often. Right now I've broken my way through my Shogun stash and the Surge is all I have left.
I do find myself going faster, and I am learning to get pretty good with the Surge, but for legit hard-core paddling I would always pick a straight shaft Shogun. Definitely a "better vs best" situation.
I really like that the Surge punishes you for poor form, and forces you to be your best version of yourself, but it isn't going to be that ridiculously reliable workhorse that will grab like it has claws in all situations and get you out of bad situations.
Those "short" logs without branches are the worst. You don't have any warning and they often pin vertically just like that one. Great job staying cool and glad you're ok.
I think this is also a paddling silly lines at low water thing. At a real flow this log would not have been in play.
I've never even worried about those kind before, in fact I usually try to rail slide them, but after seeing this, I'm rethinking that idea.
Yeah not without risk
that was hardcore dude
It certainly wasn't the mellow lap we planned
Things always go wrong when you are scared. So annoying lol
Yup lol. That's why I started the Getting Better series with mental understanding. All you have to do is do your job right?
I appreciate your reply. I was not being critical of your decisions in this video. I was only referring to my past decisions to go alone on a stretch of class 2-3 whitewater. About 1 mile past my take out there is a dam and nothing to stop about 2k worth of equipment from getting sucked up and destroyed or lost. Downed trees are always a changing hazard and poor water clarity makes them harder to identify. Luckily you had friends who could help recover gear quickly. I agree that being self reliant and having self rescue skills are essential because it is doubtful that the fastest rescue help will be able to respond in time to prevent a drownding when someone becomes entrapped in a whitewater situation. If this can happen to an experienced paddler like you it could certainly also happen to me.
John I was not at all upset or offended. I was simply saying that yes, it is and will be an ongoing topic. Most likely I will touch on it in another off-river talking video.
What really scares me is the prevalence of solo, and uneducated groups of, paddlers who are new to the sport and have no idea of what to do in the case of an emergency. An example comes to mind of a bunch of boaters in Arkansas(?) who were wildly offended when told they needed helmets. How dare us internet people tell them they need a helmet to run something that they have been doing "safely" for 2 years!?
at 6:07 you get a somewhat good look at that tree, looks like it might not be too much work to remove it . maybe worth a try on someones next run?
because there clearly are less experienced paddlers to be expected on this section who might not be able to deal with that same situation.
Yeah the plan is to hike in with a chainsaw and break up all the wood in here once the water goes down. From there we will go hit some other problem areas in our creeks
@@AlexBarham you do dedicated cleaning days, nice!
Only way it gets done. Usually happens in the summer
A wise man once warned me "it's all good until it's not.."
Pretty funny reaction in the moment there Alex, "okay?!” lol then "alright"
It's like the river was being awkward or something
You lost your paddle and the boat disappeared completely and in my assessment you did very well given the situation lucky you were right side up
I noticed you saying class 3 this river seemed perfect to me in terms of water level, more time will enlighten me I'm sure but I still have issue with the designations feeling non universal like class 3 from one person being a class 4 from another. Even after watching you video where you go into detail about the liability of clear labeling I still struggle to understand.
Boats seem to be designed to class specs but yet to a new person it seems situational or something idk
Anyway I don't think class 4 is on my near agenda if this is class 3
Would love to go into detail with someone being able to gauge the water so I don't get in over my head or something when planning trips
(Submerged tree trunks and randomly changing river dynamics being a constant variable of course so even a class 1 or 2 could be fatality under-respected)
Thanks for sharing
Additionally I got to thinking and I wonder about the same river but different sized and types of boats skewing the classification further. A line would be obvious in a sit on top larger boat where you have a good vantage point but not as obvious seated closer to the water level in a sit inside?
The more I learn the less I seem to know ...
So again, return to the AW definition when in question. The rating system indicates more about the need to scout and hazard avoidance than required technical ability/skill. In this case there were clear hazards that were not in the way of the line. My first run I was catching eddies which is how I found that log. The second run when we just blasted down the center we didn't encounter any issues.
And no, the boat you paddle can make something easier or harder to make the line, but the line itself does not change. Therefore a rapid doesn't go up or down a class when you paddle a different boat.
Good questions!
@@AlexBarham Good reminder, after looking up the rivers I paddled under the AW map it seems that I'm around class 2 with a possible exception of maybe 2-3 class 3 rapids under my belt.
The complexity of the flow vs the width and obstruction in the river is I guess what throws me off
Does a river classification ever change based off of time of year?
I recently ran the a section of the feather river in California a few days in a row and at times it was quite bony (although still worth it)
There was a time the river caught me sleeping and I suddenly approached large obstruction in the form of a fallen tree
I almost dropped Bob the Chihuahua and had to choose between paddling or grabbing the dog
We hit some branches..
Class 2
(Humbling in front of friends so I can relate to your "I almost died on a class 3 in front of my friends "comment )
Funny thing is that was the second time through but the first time through I didn't even notice the obstruction because it was dark as we went through and my line was better (poor timing)
With the angle it was at and the main flow of the river I am not sure if it would even be an issue at higher flows because the river could be 20 feet higher
I love the sport so far and I appreciate your feedback
I will be seeking some sort of training next year when I get back to it. But in the mean time I'm going to click on all of Alex Barham videos due to your straightforward approach and welcoming nature as well as all of River Kings videos for his technical approach and great sense of humor.
Overall I think every person should hit the paddles
I've encouraged several trips this year borrowing boats and dealing with the issues of private property put ins as well as some pretty heavy portages with a feel free lure up and over dams and trails with camping gear.
Part of the attraction to the sport is the unknown and also the adventure.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to more videos
Yes, a river can jump up or down grades with flow. Again, all depends on the features. A single dry rock could make a huge hole at flood, or a random boof spot could be a massive sieve at low water.
Well thanks for watching man. I try. Didn't realize River Kings were getting into whitewater. I thought they did flat water vlogs with shockingly large viewership. I worry whether they are putting out accurate info, but welcome more exposure to whitewater!
First again
Lol