We know that Savathun learned necromancy from Nokris during Season of Arrivals, and we know that she asked Crow to collect dead Ghosts for her while masquerading as Osiris some time after Season of the Hunt. Ghosts are purported to be living entities rather than mechanical constructs, so if it's possible to resurrect a dead Ghost using necromancy, I think that's how Savathun is going to make Hive Guardians.
This comment should be higher, this makes a lot of sense and I do think people are forgetting that Nokris/Savathûn plot thread. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how Witch Queen plays out.
That, combined with the existence of Light-capturing tech from the Red War, sounds like a much more plausible answer than "we kill her and the Traveler resurrects her."
@@cliffevans2315 great point too! I believe there’s an entry where “Osiris” requisitions that tech as well in the aftermath. All those pieces together kinda make for a plausible theory for stealing the light.
It'll be interesting to see how she herself gets the light first for I don't know how this would work with that. Maybe she would would have a resurrected ghost on standby knowing the process of removing her worm will kill her regardless.
I’m kinda glad we aren’t getting Old Chicago, even though I wanted it for years. There’s currently two Earth locations in game, and in an interview months ago they said how EDZ and Nessus are the least likely of all locations to get vaulted. Mainly due to all the assets tied to them
@@cliffevans2315 I really just hope they keep both Nessus and EDZ in the game but keep making activities for them. A new strike on the EDZ after 4 years now wouldn't hurt, and the first dungeon on EDZ wouldn't hurt either. It wouldn't feel like Destiny 2 without at least 1 Destiny 2 vanilla location.
They could vault nessus and the edz but not tie it to a story so we can keep strikes. They are also my two least favorite destinations so I'm not against it
@@Sprkgd the whole point of vaulting is to remove assets in order to make room for others. They can't remove all the assets from those areas without also breaking the strikes that use those assets.
I never thought old Chicago would come into the game with witch queen because it didn’t seem like it fit the story like what would savathun be doing in Chicago? What would she even be doing on earth, I think the next 3 expansions would need a huge monumental location for the story, I think old Chicago is a plausible location for after the light and dark saga
*Titans* "If we go to Old Chicago we go to fulfill our promise to take back what was lost." *Warlocks* "If we go to Old Chicago we go to safeguard it's history." *Hunters* "If we go to Old Chicago...we go to save deep dish pizza!"
Old Chicago will probably be like the Glykon in the sense that we'll be able to go there in an exotic lore mission but it isnt a destination. Itd be too similar to savathuns thone world.
While we have two already, I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Old Earth. There’s still so much untapped potential for biomes here alone; bamboo forests, arid deserts, megacity ruins...It does make me happy that we’re getting some sort of swamp/rainforest-like location though with Savathun’s throne world so that’s cool.
It was just a good way of them making the community focus on one thing to surprise them with something new while we where all distracted cause they knew they could use that leverage to get us hyped.
I'm wondering if originally they were going to do 2 destinations, like in Forsaken, The Swamps of Old Chicago, and the Throne World Castle. Then either because covid was draggin on and they had to make cuts, or because of any of the reasons that you listed, they decided to combine the two into one destination.
I know our Guardians are powerful, but are they powerful enough to handle the gangs in Chicago? I feel like they’d be doing quad Gally or Sweet Business drive-by’s against the Taken and and Hive. I think our Guardians looked at the Vanguard and were like “listen, I know we’ve killed paracausal immortal gods, but even this is beyond us. We respectfully decline…”
This season the relationship between the ascendant plane and our reality is being described to us as two coins stacked on top each other. Weekly we are seeing the ascendant plane version of the EDZ and now Tangled Shore. What if her throne world is apart of the ascendant plane that is correlated with Old Chicago, hence the swamps and “Last City” style fortress. Maybe an access point to her throne world is in Old Chicago, available for part of the first mission of the expansion.
I can definitely see this happening. Savathun using the ascendant plane to take the entire last city, including the traveller into her throne world. It would make a decent explanation for why she has light.
Ascendant planes can take areas from the real world into their pocket dimension so it’s not totally out of the realm of possibility that Savathun at some point takes Old Chicago into her throne world
I would be cool if it was a mirror reality. Physically the same as old Chicago but the circular mist wall surrounds the throne world. Everyone outside would only see old Chicago and nothing else. Kinda reminds me of an old anime "Princess Tutu" everyone is trapped in the town covered by a wall of mist.
I always assumed one of the pyramids would just go to earth and chill there once the expansion dropped rather than have been there all along like in shadowkeep.
I'm actually VERY happy it's not another Earth location. Not that Earth can't be interesting, but I'd want to see more new places we haven't explored, and I feel like Chicago would of just been Cosmodrome 2.0
Idk with swamps and then maybe some ruined/abandoned skyscrapers it could have a very different vibe. I would like an area with a lot of verticality like that.
My gripe with Destiny remains the same - by and large, we just don't ever actively "save" anyone. The longer the game goes on I think the sense of urgency just gets further away. It's still one of my favorite looking and playing games. It's just that the story beats feel more and more like a grind framework and less of a thing that invites any deeper investment.
Much as I love the game, I feel the same. Imagine if we had a system where we clear out lost sectors and, as a result, they become outposts for collection of resources or even gear/weapons. Maybe they get attacked by a particular faction and we have to defend them and, if we don’t, they become lost sectors again. Also it’d be nice if, after saving the dreaming city, it becomes like the D1 reef and is an actual social space where the awoken live (with maybe the outer area dedicated to combat and the inner area for social stuff)
@@StaySqueezy12 I mostly acquiesce to the same thing but you need both to play off each other. The small personal stories give more weight to the situations and experiences in the larger grand stories while the larger grand stories make you appreciate the respite or “calm before the storm” situations of the smaller personal stories. That’s how you do good writing. Balance.
@@Fitchy-ke3wz other guardians don't count, lol - I'm just saying, for all the grandiose foreboding moments, rarely does it feel like the world is a Tually in danger, a la Mass Effect or OG Halo. Sure, you can pretend in your mind, but still - it's just super guardians vs. monsters. The Ghaul storyline was close, but there's never much in the way of actual rescue moments - just lots of gorgeous areas to stomp the opposition in gorgeous ways. Clearly I'll m still a fan, lol - but I do realize that a more personal game could cause a drift away from D2. If With Queen is just "new maps and light bearing Hive" yeah - well, fine.
I thought it would end up being similar to how the Heart of the Darkness was tethered to Mars. We know that ascendant locations can take areas from the physical world and connect them to their dimension, so I thought that the swampy section we see was the part that bled through since it seems to be the most likely 'entrance' point for the destination.
I wonder if the mechanics of the ascendant realm finally being canonized are a justification for Savathun's throne world *being* Old Chicago, just a few layers deep.
If they did sunset Forsaken on release of Witch Queen my pet theory is that Savathun takes over Mara's Throne World and in the process that consumes the Dreaming City giving us what we see in the trailer. It's a BIG stretch of course, but fun to toy around with thinking about.
I never really wanted Old Chicago as a full destination. I think it would be hard to make it distinct from other earth locations. If we do ever get another place on earth, I think it should be a one-off visit in a secret mission like presage or whisper or even a dungeon.
This could be a long shot, but I think its still possible that the physical location of Savathun's throne world is Old Chicago. Kinda like how Oryx turned his dreadnaught into his throne world. I think its entirely possible that Savathun will materialize her throne world in a similar way, and maybe the swampy areas of the new location will be along the edge of her actual throne world.
This has been in the works for a LOT longer than you think Paul. Check the "Unfinal Shapes" Ship lore entry from all the way back in Forsaken. Eris writes a letter to Asher, warning him that she had seen "A hive throne world built for the Light. Built upon the darkness and the logic of swords, but for the Light." They had plans for this throne world back in FORSAKEN, 3 years ago. Not for old Chicago.
What if Old Chicago is like Ravenholm? ‘We dont go to Old Chicago’. Which means we must go. Then thats where you break through to the throne world. Its all green and swampy.
The throne world is SOOOO MUCH better then old chicago.. lol whatever bungie decided to change or do im glad they did, this alien throne world of Savathuns is way more interesting then another abandon city. The swamps, her castle, the underbelly hellish area under her castle, and the pyramid. Just from looks alone throne world is gonna compete with dreaming city as the best destinations.
Wondering if this changed when work began on the Beyond Light/Witch Queen/Lightfall trilogy (now quadrilogy) of expansions, since starting with Beyond Light and specifically Season of the Chosen. The expansion of our allies and the addition of the HELM (which seems suspiciously like a giant spaceship) seems to hint that we're going to have to leave Earth at some point in the future story - hopefully because the Black Fleet, etc have just captured the Traveler and all of Earth in Darkness, rather than Earth straight up getting destroyed. If we can't go to Earth, having one of the NEWEST zones in the game be on Earth would probably not be awesome gameplay-wise. So put it in a Throne World, and we can come and go as we please.
i think we will get another location before savathun's throne world just the same how tangle shore to the dreaming city worked. My theory was we would get a new mars location or old Chicago as a starting location than transition to savathun's throne world.
I'm curious in the gameplay trailer there's this area right at the start surrounded by ice and above the area there is a huge savathun head floating in the sky.. that doesn't look like her throne world or anything else.. possible 2nd location?
I have a feeling that we aren't just going to load into her throne world minute one. Maybe we do go to Chicago to enter her throne world? The other throne worlds that we've been to are linked to patrol areas like the Dreaming City and Dreadnaught.
Do we know it's not related to Old Chicago? Like it could be entered through the swamps like how Crota's throneworld is only accessible through a gate at the bottom of the Hell mouth, or Oryx's is turned inside out as the dreadnaught.
I bet that Old Chicago WILL be added. My theory is that Old Chicago will be the hub point to enter Savathuns kingdom. It would act as a forward base of operations, and that Savathuns kingdom is an Ascendant version/Vex alternate timeline of Old Chicago.
From what I remember and please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we really not know much about throne worlds? How are they made? What are the requirements to form and morph the world to be what you want? Wouldn’t there have to be an entrance to the throne world and isn’t there a possibility the entrance to savathuns throne world is in the swamps of old Chicago? Also maybe she went there maybe explaining the weird creature in the pod thing in the trailer for witch queen?
We know a bit about them, but not many specifics on how they're made. I know that Oryx was able to turn his throne world inside out and make it materialize in our world as his Dreadnaught. Which is why we don't have to be transported into his throne world, unlike Crota. I'm thinking that Savathun will do something similar in Witch Queen, potentially materializing her throne world castle near Old Chicago as a base of operations near the Traveler.
Old Chicago did seem like a massive assumption by the Destiny community, based mostly on the first teaser image looking a bit swampy, just didn't feel right. I'm not sure if it was ever part of the plan, considering how well hidden Savathun has been and the Interference missions on the ascendant High Coven during Arrivals. It just seemed to make narrative sense that we would take the fight to her during the Witch Queen expansion. I guess part of that is hindsight though. The lore entries for Old Chicago seem to hint at crypts, tombs, vaults, and a beast which lures Guardians to their death. Seems more like dungeon or exotic quest material, maybe even a story mission to recover an artefact or data, like Phobos was during TTK.
Haven't read spoilers, but what if old Chicago is still in Witch Queen and sort of acts as a forward base because that's where Savathuns throne world entrance is. It could be where Ikora has set up in the trailer
I wouldn’t be surprised if the swampy area of her throne world isn’t called “The Swamps of Old Chicago”. It’s very possible she built her throne world in an exact image of the real swamps of Old Chicago. She may very well have been there for something and was inspired by the area, therefore deciding to utilize the area in her throne world when she built it.
Those screen shots look like they hint at what night be the NEXT power of the Darkness we might be endowed with, which will be either Corruption/Infestation or Corrosion/Entropy
@@edge4266 maybe but we already got d1 mars back which is being hinted to countless times and I feel that they wouldn't be secretive with 2 destinations at once
I don't think Old Chicago was ever meant to be the Witch Queen location. We had so many references to other locations in Destiny's lore but they barely ever ended up becoming the following new destination. Besides, swamps aren't exclusive to Old Chicago & since we got Mercury & Mars, 2 desert planets back to back in D2 Y1, I don't think the environmental duplicates matter to Bungie. It is true that Old Chicago has been mentioned rather often recently in the lore, but I think thats more of a setup for the intersection between the 1st & 2nd saga, as we get closer to a 2nd Collapse, potentially investigating places marked by the 1st Collapse to prepare for it. We had Old Russia as the 1st destination in D1 & EDZ as 1st destination in D2, maybe we'll get Old Chicago or another Earth location as the 1st destination for the 2nd saga. However, I do believe that Savathun's Throne World did in fact derive from an old concept art, just not from Old Chicago: the very old fantasy concept art, wet, green woodland w/ white, ghostly figures, which I believe are now the Lucent Brood.
I feel like Old Chicago was never a planned place for Witch Queen but rather something they would use later in the year but then again we only got the Cosmo because New light was tied with BL so…
Paul, it was your videos and article, and many reddit posts, that had me CONVINCED we were going to Old Chicago in the Witch Queen. In fact, I was so sure, I even made my reaction into a drinking game, and I predicted that if the new destination was NOT Old Chicago, I would drink twice. I was that sure 😂😂 Paul, I HAD TO DRINK TWICE BECAUSE OF YOU, I GOT SO DRUNK ON THE 24TH 😂😂😂 Jkjk I kid I kid 😂 All jokes aside, I too think it was changed. Perhaps right after the Stasis backlash following Beyond Light, Bungie scrapped a poison subclass for TWQ, and decided to go with Hive Guardians and a focus on updated Light classes instead. That's my personal theory along with everything you said here. After the reveal, I'm actually glad it's in the throne world, and I too agree that it was a better call, as it's far more majestic, and Bungie can get away with a lot more 😁
Is it possible that WQ will have two new locations, similar to Foresaken, and that Old Chicago is being kept a secret? Wasn’t the Dreaming City secret until Foresaken released? The images/videos of swamp land could actually be Old Chicago, and not Savathun’s kingdom place! 🤷♂️
I feel like they took the swamp thing from Old Chicago and made an alien version of it, but it would be cool if Savathun’s throne world has half of an earth city stuck to it
If any big city from Earth comes to the game Im hoping its New York City. Apparently from the lore there is a giant crater in Manhattan and its swarming with taken.
How do we know it was going to be old Chicago bar the one bit of art back from D1? I'm guessing it was always going to be a Hive home world, nothing to do with OC
It just occurred to me that maybe Savathuns Throne World isn’t a Throne World in the traditional sense. What if she doesn’t end the curse on the Dreaming City? What if she finishes the curse and the Dreaming City becomes her throne world? It could explain how she has one post worm.
Maybe we're getting OC in lightfall. It'd be pretty cool if the Darkness invaded Earth in this DLC, what better place for the new location than Old Chicago. Maybe this creature running about OC is some sort of agent of the Dark looking for something.
I'm not too knowledgable on how exactly throne worlds work. I'm wondering if the fact that we get this destination means, that we won't kill Savathun at all. I'm assuming that it would collapse if we did(?) And that would be weird if it's gonna be the main destination for the next expansion. (Especially, because the 'crafting table' seems to be there which should canonically be accessible way after the conclusion of the campaign.)
to be honest, no point of the current storyline hints towards another earth map, it really wouldn't make a lot of sense since there isn't a lot of stuff on earth outside of maybe some remnants of the first war against the darkness
Now that you mention the Leviathan, there are actually some similarities between that fortress and early Leviathan concept art before they settled on what we got. I think there's still a good chance we lose the Tangled Shore/Dreaming City going into Witch Queen - certainly this season could end with the curse being broken, and there's some gear/ship lore that has the Spider packing up all of his stuff and asking the Drifter to smuggle him off the Reef, big "getting out while the getting's good" vibes. My hope/wish is that we do see Old Chicago (and maybe Australia, which came up in some gear lore during Opulence) in whatever comes after The Final Shape. The whole Light/Darkness saga is going to end at a time when PS5/Series X consoles will be firmly current-gen, and it'd be as good a time as any to leave legacy consoles behind. So whatever Destiny becomes, it'd arguably be designed just for those consoles and PC, and maybe the zones could be bigger, and something like a sprawling city-swamp would be more viable than on current platforms. But that's just pure speculation.
Says who? I mean, it would suck, I'm not saying it'd be a good thing, but the whole point behind vaulting seems to be as much about rebuilding those zones with all the legacy junk taken out as keeping the overall file size down, so everything from before Beyond Light (or maybe Shadowkeep to be generous) is going to have to go away at some point or another. Nessus would lose us four strikes, EDZ would only lose us two, so that's possible, Cosmodrome is central to New Light, so that's not going away anytime soon (plus it shipped with Beyond Light, so it's possible it doesn't need to be cleaned up), maybe the Moon, but at some point those two zones are probably going away.
I really don't care it wasn't Old Chicago, this is pretty much the same place, but just with a different name. I mean, look at all the old concept art, it's the same as the place we saw in the trailer.
Kinda sad we are not getting old Chicago. I'm from Chicago and seeing it in game would have been really cool but im okay since it got turned into Savathun Throne World. Personally, if they had added it, they would have to get rid of the EDZ. We already have two earth locations. One too many. I know there are a lot of assets linked to the EDZ but its really boring. I would be really pissed if some how they got rid of the Dreaming city but kept the EDZ. Dont even know why they bother bringing back the Cosmodrome....
I also think they scrapped Chicago for now because bungie wants to surprise us with a returning location like Mars or titan with its darkness re work to them and wanna save an American location for a future DLC like light fall or beyond
But like can we get an Earth location that's not in Europe? Or at the very least, an actual metropolitan city? Not going to Old Chicago is disappointing news to me because I was really looking forward to *hopefully* getting to parkour over ruined skyscrapers and rooftops. Going into the subways for more Horror Destiny vibes.
We know that Savathun learned necromancy from Nokris during Season of Arrivals, and we know that she asked Crow to collect dead Ghosts for her while masquerading as Osiris some time after Season of the Hunt. Ghosts are purported to be living entities rather than mechanical constructs, so if it's possible to resurrect a dead Ghost using necromancy, I think that's how Savathun is going to make Hive Guardians.
This comment should be higher, this makes a lot of sense and I do think people are forgetting that Nokris/Savathûn plot thread. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how Witch Queen plays out.
That, combined with the existence of Light-capturing tech from the Red War, sounds like a much more plausible answer than "we kill her and the Traveler resurrects her."
@@cliffevans2315 great point too! I believe there’s an entry where “Osiris” requisitions that tech as well in the aftermath. All those pieces together kinda make for a plausible theory for stealing the light.
I wonder if Nokris will.get revived as a guardian too and be the secondary villain? Hell he could end up as a boss of the raid.
It'll be interesting to see how she herself gets the light first for I don't know how this would work with that. Maybe she would would have a resurrected ghost on standby knowing the process of removing her worm will kill her regardless.
The last time they actually surprised us with a location we’d never even heard about was forsaken so I’m fine with this
If you mean the Dreaming City, it was shown off multiple times before release
@@Yoop74 It was teased, but we all thought it was just part of the raid
@@Beejrich in a way I guess thats right lol
It had its own trailer and stuff tho tbf
Yeah and forsaken was made by half moon studio.
{sad trombone sounds}
@@countpicula Lol where’d you hear that
I’m kinda glad we aren’t getting Old Chicago, even though I wanted it for years. There’s currently two Earth locations in game, and in an interview months ago they said how EDZ and Nessus are the least likely of all locations to get vaulted. Mainly due to all the assets tied to them
Never thought about that, always assumed that those planets were 100% going to get vaulted but that makes sense
Losing Nessus would mean losing four strikes. They'd need to really beef up the playlist before they take it offline.
@@cliffevans2315 I really just hope they keep both Nessus and EDZ in the game but keep making activities for them. A new strike on the EDZ after 4 years now wouldn't hurt, and the first dungeon on EDZ wouldn't hurt either. It wouldn't feel like Destiny 2 without at least 1 Destiny 2 vanilla location.
They could vault nessus and the edz but not tie it to a story so we can keep strikes. They are also my two least favorite destinations so I'm not against it
@@Sprkgd the whole point of vaulting is to remove assets in order to make room for others. They can't remove all the assets from those areas without also breaking the strikes that use those assets.
I never thought old Chicago would come into the game with witch queen because it didn’t seem like it fit the story like what would savathun be doing in Chicago? What would she even be doing on earth, I think the next 3 expansions would need a huge monumental location for the story, I think old Chicago is a plausible location for after the light and dark saga
*Titans* "If we go to Old Chicago we go to fulfill our promise to take back what was lost."
*Warlocks* "If we go to Old Chicago we go to safeguard it's history."
*Hunters* "If we go to Old Chicago...we go to save deep dish pizza!"
8:57
It would be cool if we did get a presage style mission in the Chicago catacombs
Either an exotic quest or dungeon would be cool
Maybe we go into an underground military bunker in Chicago and the exotic would be the exotic Kvostov? Would be kinda cool
@@fissilepear7805 If that happens, it needs to have explosive payload when in auto rifle mode.
Old Chicago will probably be like the Glykon in the sense that we'll be able to go there in an exotic lore mission but it isnt a destination. Itd be too similar to savathuns thone world.
I hope so!
While we have two already, I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Old Earth. There’s still so much untapped potential for biomes here alone; bamboo forests, arid deserts, megacity ruins...It does make me happy that we’re getting some sort of swamp/rainforest-like location though with Savathun’s throne world so that’s cool.
@@oinkytheink1228 We nuked ourselves?? What pore tab is this?
@@matthewtorres4414 i mean Manhattan at least as a nuclear zone is referenced in the thorium holt gear for warlocks, or whatever the armor is called.
@@konveen8777 I’ll have to read up on that
Kevin Bohlinger
>me, sitting at home in Manhattan reading this
“Oh. That’s nice.”
@@SultanOfAwesomeness hope you have a blast there
I'm more and more convinced each day that at some point likely with management change over Witch Queen was rebooted.
Hello joker!
but joker
Luke Smith was replaced so...
@@AxisChurchDevotee that fucker was the reason for so many shit decisions made
makes sense why it was delayed too
It was just a good way of them making the community focus on one thing to surprise them with something new while we where all distracted cause they knew they could use that leverage to get us hyped.
Ah yes, the "Bungie are supervillains" theory of how businesses work.
I'm wondering if originally they were going to do 2 destinations, like in Forsaken, The Swamps of Old Chicago, and the Throne World Castle. Then either because covid was draggin on and they had to make cuts, or because of any of the reasons that you listed, they decided to combine the two into one destination.
The swamps are literally part of the throne world so no
@@ontos8914 yes, I know that. My point is that they may not have been so originally.
@@ontos8914 but they could have been separate areas at some point in development genius
But bungie is giving some hints about d1 mars, so we might get 2 destinations, but 1 will be just unvaulted
I know our Guardians are powerful, but are they powerful enough to handle the gangs in Chicago? I feel like they’d be doing quad Gally or Sweet Business drive-by’s against the Taken and and Hive. I think our Guardians looked at the Vanguard and were like “listen, I know we’ve killed paracausal immortal gods, but even this is beyond us. We respectfully decline…”
This season the relationship between the ascendant plane and our reality is being described to us as two coins stacked on top each other. Weekly we are seeing the ascendant plane version of the EDZ and now Tangled Shore.
What if her throne world is apart of the ascendant plane that is correlated with Old Chicago, hence the swamps and “Last City” style fortress. Maybe an access point to her throne world is in Old Chicago, available for part of the first mission of the expansion.
I can definitely see this happening. Savathun using the ascendant plane to take the entire last city, including the traveller into her throne world. It would make a decent explanation for why she has light.
Ascendant planes can take areas from the real world into their pocket dimension so it’s not totally out of the realm of possibility that Savathun at some point takes Old Chicago into her throne world
It's always likely it's a Dreadnought situation and her 'Throne World' is physically present in our reality.
I would be cool if it was a mirror reality. Physically the same as old Chicago but the circular mist wall surrounds the throne world. Everyone outside would only see old Chicago and nothing else. Kinda reminds me of an old anime "Princess Tutu" everyone is trapped in the town covered by a wall of mist.
Its possible that we are getting 2 locations just like in Forsaken and they are keeping it hush hush
pretty possible seeing that this expansion is probably close to the scale of ttk and forsaken
Yeah the 2nd location could be Mars
*cough cough* current running thing is that a darkness-fied version of D1 mars
@@eu.stacio didn't know that, I heard that people were speculating based on the maps in the trailers but that would be cool too
Throneworld and D1 Mars revamped
If a Pyramid can exist in her throne world, then why can’t a portion of Earth be there too? 👀
I always assumed one of the pyramids would just go to earth and chill there once the expansion dropped rather than have been there all along like in shadowkeep.
I'm actually VERY happy it's not another Earth location. Not that Earth can't be interesting, but I'd want to see more new places we haven't explored, and I feel like Chicago would of just been Cosmodrome 2.0
Idk with swamps and then maybe some ruined/abandoned skyscrapers it could have a very different vibe. I would like an area with a lot of verticality like that.
would have been cool to play it like a ruins of mombasa situation, give us some odst vibes in destiny
My gripe with Destiny remains the same - by and large, we just don't ever actively "save" anyone. The longer the game goes on I think the sense of urgency just gets further away. It's still one of my favorite looking and playing games. It's just that the story beats feel more and more like a grind framework and less of a thing that invites any deeper investment.
Much as I love the game, I feel the same. Imagine if we had a system where we clear out lost sectors and, as a result, they become outposts for collection of resources or even gear/weapons. Maybe they get attacked by a particular faction and we have to defend them and, if we don’t, they become lost sectors again.
Also it’d be nice if, after saving the dreaming city, it becomes like the D1 reef and is an actual social space where the awoken live (with maybe the outer area dedicated to combat and the inner area for social stuff)
Tbh, I prefer world building and grand space opera type situations over personal stories but I can see why some would want more personal stories.
@@StaySqueezy12 I mostly acquiesce to the same thing but you need both to play off each other. The small personal stories give more weight to the situations and experiences in the larger grand stories while the larger grand stories make you appreciate the respite or “calm before the storm” situations of the smaller personal stories. That’s how you do good writing. Balance.
Well osiris is Savathun's prisoner sooooooo
@@Fitchy-ke3wz other guardians don't count, lol - I'm just saying, for all the grandiose foreboding moments, rarely does it feel like the world is a Tually in danger, a la Mass Effect or OG Halo. Sure, you can pretend in your mind, but still - it's just super guardians vs. monsters. The Ghaul storyline was close, but there's never much in the way of actual rescue moments - just lots of gorgeous areas to stomp the opposition in gorgeous ways. Clearly I'll m still a fan, lol - but I do realize that a more personal game could cause a drift away from D2. If With Queen is just "new maps and light bearing Hive" yeah - well, fine.
I’m still hoping for Ishtar and D1 Mars to return. Ishtar was really really cool at the time-plus, we haven’t return to Venus since D1 vanilla
I thought it would end up being similar to how the Heart of the Darkness was tethered to Mars. We know that ascendant locations can take areas from the physical world and connect them to their dimension, so I thought that the swampy section we see was the part that bled through since it seems to be the most likely 'entrance' point for the destination.
I like the idea of Old Chicago, but I just don't understand why from all places would Savathûn be hidding there.
Old Chicago will probably be the dungeon in the anniversary pack
Yes the loot cave dungeon in the cosmodrome will be set in Chicago?
Correct
You mean old chicago will be inside the loot cave?
@@ontos8914 yeah
Plot twist: the gate to her throne world is in old Chicago and we’ll get an extra location like how forsaken did with tangled shore/ dreaming city
I wonder if the mechanics of the ascendant realm finally being canonized are a justification for Savathun's throne world *being* Old Chicago, just a few layers deep.
I was hoping for a more city vibe with abandoned skyscraper.
I really want a big and open human city location. Not just a small part but a big part like 3 or 4 zones if not all of them.
@@Banana-Boi exactly what I wanted Europa to be: a frozen cityscape that we walk through with malls and skyscrapers
If they did sunset Forsaken on release of Witch Queen my pet theory is that Savathun takes over Mara's Throne World and in the process that consumes the Dreaming City giving us what we see in the trailer. It's a BIG stretch of course, but fun to toy around with thinking about.
I never really wanted Old Chicago as a full destination. I think it would be hard to make it distinct from other earth locations. If we do ever get another place on earth, I think it should be a one-off visit in a secret mission like presage or whisper or even a dungeon.
Are you high?....swap mess is totally different from the EDZ or Cosmo.
lore bit from the season pass ghost shell: spiders leaving the shore. thus, TANGLED SHORES GETTING VAULTED BABY, fucking hated that place
This could be a long shot, but I think its still possible that the physical location of Savathun's throne world is Old Chicago. Kinda like how Oryx turned his dreadnaught into his throne world. I think its entirely possible that Savathun will materialize her throne world in a similar way, and maybe the swampy areas of the new location will be along the edge of her actual throne world.
Dude that building in the front of old Chicago there is right next to Navy Pier really cool to see it there.
Caer Lerion, an orbital city above Earth, is another location that was inspired by the concept of the Tower originally being in space.
This has been in the works for a LOT longer than you think Paul.
Check the "Unfinal Shapes" Ship lore entry from all the way back in Forsaken. Eris writes a letter to Asher, warning him that she had seen "A hive throne world built for the Light. Built upon the darkness and the logic of swords, but for the Light."
They had plans for this throne world back in FORSAKEN, 3 years ago. Not for old Chicago.
What if Old Chicago is like Ravenholm? ‘We dont go to Old Chicago’. Which means we must go. Then thats where you break through to the throne world. Its all green and swampy.
The throne world is SOOOO MUCH better then old chicago.. lol whatever bungie decided to change or do im glad they did, this alien throne world of Savathuns is way more interesting then another abandon city. The swamps, her castle, the underbelly hellish area under her castle, and the pyramid. Just from looks alone throne world is gonna compete with dreaming city as the best destinations.
Wondering if this changed when work began on the Beyond Light/Witch Queen/Lightfall trilogy (now quadrilogy) of expansions, since starting with Beyond Light and specifically Season of the Chosen. The expansion of our allies and the addition of the HELM (which seems suspiciously like a giant spaceship) seems to hint that we're going to have to leave Earth at some point in the future story - hopefully because the Black Fleet, etc have just captured the Traveler and all of Earth in Darkness, rather than Earth straight up getting destroyed. If we can't go to Earth, having one of the NEWEST zones in the game be on Earth would probably not be awesome gameplay-wise. So put it in a Throne World, and we can come and go as we please.
i think we will get another location before savathun's throne world just the same how tangle shore to the dreaming city worked. My theory was we would get a new mars location or old Chicago as a starting location than transition to savathun's throne world.
I'm curious in the gameplay trailer there's this area right at the start surrounded by ice and above the area there is a huge savathun head floating in the sky.. that doesn't look like her throne world or anything else.. possible 2nd location?
That definitely has the vibe of the throne world. Especially the Skybox.
Chicago... close to the coast... LOL
I have a feeling that we aren't just going to load into her throne world minute one. Maybe we do go to Chicago to enter her throne world? The other throne worlds that we've been to are linked to patrol areas like the Dreaming City and Dreadnaught.
There are aspects of Savathun's home world that looks eerily familiar to Calus' first raid arena, or am I totally off base on that?
Do we know it's not related to Old Chicago? Like it could be entered through the swamps like how Crota's throneworld is only accessible through a gate at the bottom of the Hell mouth, or Oryx's is turned inside out as the dreadnaught.
I bet that Old Chicago WILL be added. My theory is that Old Chicago will be the hub point to enter Savathuns kingdom. It would act as a forward base of operations, and that Savathuns kingdom is an Ascendant version/Vex alternate timeline of Old Chicago.
From what I remember and please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we really not know much about throne worlds? How are they made? What are the requirements to form and morph the world to be what you want? Wouldn’t there have to be an entrance to the throne world and isn’t there a possibility the entrance to savathuns throne world is in the swamps of old Chicago? Also maybe she went there maybe explaining the weird creature in the pod thing in the trailer for witch queen?
We know a bit about them, but not many specifics on how they're made. I know that Oryx was able to turn his throne world inside out and make it materialize in our world as his Dreadnaught. Which is why we don't have to be transported into his throne world, unlike Crota. I'm thinking that Savathun will do something similar in Witch Queen, potentially materializing her throne world castle near Old Chicago as a base of operations near the Traveler.
Old Chicago did seem like a massive assumption by the Destiny community, based mostly on the first teaser image looking a bit swampy, just didn't feel right. I'm not sure if it was ever part of the plan, considering how well hidden Savathun has been and the Interference missions on the ascendant High Coven during Arrivals. It just seemed to make narrative sense that we would take the fight to her during the Witch Queen expansion. I guess part of that is hindsight though.
The lore entries for Old Chicago seem to hint at crypts, tombs, vaults, and a beast which lures Guardians to their death. Seems more like dungeon or exotic quest material, maybe even a story mission to recover an artefact or data, like Phobos was during TTK.
I hope they add old Detroit and make it look like current Detroit.
So the EAZ but not floating?
So essentially change nothing? Because detroit sucks
Detroit is the one place the darkness won’t touch because it is darker
I believe it’s likely that the hive guardians could exist outside of the throne world, though for gameplay reasons it’ll stay contained to it.
getting a 3rd earth destination would have not been balling
Maybe old Chicago will be shown during season 17 perhaps?
Haven't read spoilers, but what if old Chicago is still in Witch Queen and sort of acts as a forward base because that's where Savathuns throne world entrance is. It could be where Ikora has set up in the trailer
I wouldn’t be surprised if the swampy area of her throne world isn’t called “The Swamps of Old Chicago”. It’s very possible she built her throne world in an exact image of the real swamps of Old Chicago. She may very well have been there for something and was inspired by the area, therefore deciding to utilize the area in her throne world when she built it.
Those screen shots look like they hint at what night be the NEXT power of the Darkness we might be endowed with, which will be either Corruption/Infestation or Corrosion/Entropy
Maybe next dlc we'll get old Chicago
I think we might be getting Old Chicago (or another destination) in Witch Queen and they're just keeping it hush, like Forsaken
@@edge4266 maybe but we already got d1 mars back which is being hinted to countless times and I feel that they wouldn't be secretive with 2 destinations at once
I don't think Old Chicago was ever meant to be the Witch Queen location. We had so many references to other locations in Destiny's lore but they barely ever ended up becoming the following new destination. Besides, swamps aren't exclusive to Old Chicago & since we got Mercury & Mars, 2 desert planets back to back in D2 Y1, I don't think the environmental duplicates matter to Bungie.
It is true that Old Chicago has been mentioned rather often recently in the lore, but I think thats more of a setup for the intersection between the 1st & 2nd saga, as we get closer to a 2nd Collapse, potentially investigating places marked by the 1st Collapse to prepare for it. We had Old Russia as the 1st destination in D1 & EDZ as 1st destination in D2, maybe we'll get Old Chicago or another Earth location as the 1st destination for the 2nd saga.
However, I do believe that Savathun's Throne World did in fact derive from an old concept art, just not from Old Chicago: the very old fantasy concept art, wet, green woodland w/ white, ghostly figures, which I believe are now the Lucent Brood.
D1 Mars is getting unvaulted and changed, calling it now
I feel like Old Chicago was never a planned place for Witch Queen but rather something they would use later in the year but then again we only got the Cosmo because New light was tied with BL so…
Yeah, what happened to the drop of almighty? I thought we were going to go to the location
I don't think there would have been much to see. We had already been on board the Almighty a couple of times before it crashed.
Paul, it was your videos and article, and many reddit posts, that had me CONVINCED we were going to Old Chicago in the Witch Queen. In fact, I was so sure, I even made my reaction into a drinking game, and I predicted that if the new destination was NOT Old Chicago, I would drink twice. I was that sure 😂😂
Paul, I HAD TO DRINK TWICE BECAUSE OF YOU, I GOT SO DRUNK ON THE 24TH 😂😂😂
Jkjk I kid I kid 😂
All jokes aside, I too think it was changed. Perhaps right after the Stasis backlash following Beyond Light, Bungie scrapped a poison subclass for TWQ, and decided to go with Hive Guardians and a focus on updated Light classes instead. That's my personal theory along with everything you said here.
After the reveal, I'm actually glad it's in the throne world, and I too agree that it was a better call, as it's far more majestic, and Bungie can get away with a lot more 😁
Is it possible that WQ will have two new locations, similar to Foresaken, and that Old Chicago is being kept a secret? Wasn’t the Dreaming City secret until Foresaken released? The images/videos of swamp land could actually be Old Chicago, and not Savathun’s kingdom place! 🤷♂️
hey paul, just wanted to let you know that i like your videos and i'm glad you started doing youtube :)
That was a nice article you wrote on fusion rifles and what not. Pretty informative
I feel like they took the swamp thing from Old Chicago and made an alien version of it, but it would be cool if Savathun’s throne world has half of an earth city stuck to it
Beyond Light and Europa felt like the "full" version of House Of Wolves from D1. It could have been 1:1 in D1 if you cut the darkness stuff.
Maybe Old Chicago could be a new location for the Festival of the Lost.
Wouldn't surprise me if get a tangled shore and dreaming city treatment.
Savathun's castle gives me big Dishonored vibes and I'm super okay with that.
Anybody else notice how much the core of the hive ghosts looks like the rock that Eris carries around and puts on the dearly departed Caydes map
That’s just hive aesthetic.
They're...both green. That is literally the only similarity.
If any big city from Earth comes to the game Im hoping its New York City. Apparently from the lore there is a giant crater in Manhattan and its swarming with taken.
How do we know it was going to be old Chicago bar the one bit of art back from D1? I'm guessing it was always going to be a Hive home world, nothing to do with OC
It just occurred to me that maybe Savathuns Throne World isn’t a Throne World in the traditional sense. What if she doesn’t end the curse on the Dreaming City? What if she finishes the curse and the Dreaming City becomes her throne world? It could explain how she has one post worm.
Maybe we're getting OC in lightfall.
It'd be pretty cool if the Darkness invaded Earth in this DLC, what better place for the new location than Old Chicago.
Maybe this creature running about OC is some sort of agent of the Dark looking for something.
it would look too similar to the throne world, but ik what they’re going to add in lightfall
The Lucent Brood will NOT be confined to Savathun's Throne World I think .
I think WQ will introduce both Old Chicago and Savathun’s Throne World.
Can’t wait to see the raid armor
We got two entirely new destinations in Forsaken. I don't think it's too out there to think maybe we'd get old chicago and savs throne world.
Luke Smith has explicitly said that no new expansion will be as big as Forsaken.
Maybe the entrance to her thrown world is through old chicago?
I'm not too knowledgable on how exactly throne worlds work. I'm wondering if the fact that we get this destination means, that we won't kill Savathun at all. I'm assuming that it would collapse if we did(?) And that would be weird if it's gonna be the main destination for the next expansion. (Especially, because the 'crafting table' seems to be there which should canonically be accessible way after the conclusion of the campaign.)
No the throne world would persist even if savathun died
The question is are we going to fight her or rescue her,,? I would think fight but seasons have been about getting new allies
I don't think she needs rescuing 😂
to be honest, no point of the current storyline hints towards another earth map, it really wouldn't make a lot of sense since there isn't a lot of stuff on earth outside of maybe some remnants of the first war against the darkness
I wish we could’ve gotten Old Chicago
But I understand why WQ ain’t taking place there
Now that you mention the Leviathan, there are actually some similarities between that fortress and early Leviathan concept art before they settled on what we got.
I think there's still a good chance we lose the Tangled Shore/Dreaming City going into Witch Queen - certainly this season could end with the curse being broken, and there's some gear/ship lore that has the Spider packing up all of his stuff and asking the Drifter to smuggle him off the Reef, big "getting out while the getting's good" vibes.
My hope/wish is that we do see Old Chicago (and maybe Australia, which came up in some gear lore during Opulence) in whatever comes after The Final Shape. The whole Light/Darkness saga is going to end at a time when PS5/Series X consoles will be firmly current-gen, and it'd be as good a time as any to leave legacy consoles behind. So whatever Destiny becomes, it'd arguably be designed just for those consoles and PC, and maybe the zones could be bigger, and something like a sprawling city-swamp would be more viable than on current platforms. But that's just pure speculation.
Bruh we literally can't lose forsaken content until it's been a year or more it's been free.
Says who? I mean, it would suck, I'm not saying it'd be a good thing, but the whole point behind vaulting seems to be as much about rebuilding those zones with all the legacy junk taken out as keeping the overall file size down, so everything from before Beyond Light (or maybe Shadowkeep to be generous) is going to have to go away at some point or another. Nessus would lose us four strikes, EDZ would only lose us two, so that's possible, Cosmodrome is central to New Light, so that's not going away anytime soon (plus it shipped with Beyond Light, so it's possible it doesn't need to be cleaned up), maybe the Moon, but at some point those two zones are probably going away.
Heard someone say in a discord call "what if the creature that they were following was a hive guardian or savathun beta testing them"
Im coining the term "Savathûns Creative World"
Have you noticed scatterhorn armor doesn't drop?
I got the mark yesterday tho
@@playcebovision5319 are you 100% sure it was scatterhorn? And from what activity? I haven't seen a single piece for 2 season
I really don't care it wasn't Old Chicago, this is pretty much the same place, but just with a different name. I mean, look at all the old concept art, it's the same as the place we saw in the trailer.
Kinda sad we are not getting old Chicago. I'm from Chicago and seeing it in game would have been really cool but im okay since it got turned into Savathun Throne World. Personally, if they had added it, they would have to get rid of the EDZ. We already have two earth locations. One too many. I know there are a lot of assets linked to the EDZ but its really boring. I would be really pissed if some how they got rid of the Dreaming city but kept the EDZ. Dont even know why they bother bringing back the Cosmodrome....
completely off topic - can we get a house tour or at the very least a setup tour? maybe next milestone perhaps.
i just assume they didnt want to do three locations on earth
They probably just combined old Chicago and savathuns throne world into one destination.
Do we actually know if anything is being content vaulted?
Nothing as of now.
i think it's supposed to be saturn. how else would there be a pyramid there? you can't bring a pyramid into a throne world
I also think they scrapped Chicago for now because bungie wants to surprise us with a returning location like Mars or titan with its darkness re work to them and wanna save an American location for a future DLC like light fall or beyond
the people demand the mustache back
But like can we get an Earth location that's not in Europe? Or at the very least, an actual metropolitan city?
Not going to Old Chicago is disappointing news to me because I was really looking forward to *hopefully* getting to parkour over ruined skyscrapers and rooftops. Going into the subways for more Horror Destiny vibes.
I thought Bungie was in the middle of making Chicago, and then they thought. "Old Chicago, how cliche"
Maybe we access her throne world from Old Chicago.
there was never confirmation it was going to be old chicago... it never was going to be there.
I'm glad it isn't old Chicago because I wouldn't want ANOTHER earth zone.
Paul...you have now given us you with a moustache. Can we see you with a handlebar moustache next? Please????😅
Why would we know what's going on in old Chicago or anywhere else really. We don't even know our own citizens in the last city besides Grandma Ava