Why Adam Savage ALWAYS Uses Center Drills
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Tested Patron moultriemanicmechanic asked Adam, "Why don't you use center drills to start holes when you are using the lathe? I'm not sure I've ever seen you use one and it's so much easier." Here's Adam's rather involved answer, and we thank you for your question and support, Moultrie. Join this channel to support Tested and get access to perks, like asking Adam questions:
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Sir I really really like that anter handled bowie you made, id like to ask to commission you to build me one similar but obviously slightly different so that yours remains its own? I'm willing to pay good money to have this done...
Also where is the video of you chopping things with that knife lol-ol-ol like water bottles and sticks and such?
So - what's the difference between a center drill and a spotting drill ?
@@criggie A spotting drill, with its split chisel point, thin tapered web, and rigid stubby body is ideal for making a shallow hole on location so that the main drill bit will follow the location without skittering off location. A center drill is like 2 drills in one. 1) A larger body, with a 60 degree point meant to engage with a lathe center (live or dead) mounted in the tailstock to support long workpieces. 2) The short pilot point is meant to help start the drill on center and provide a relief for the sharp point of the lathe center.
Many people will use a center drill to spot the hole, mostly because they do an ok job for spotting, and because they don't have spotting drills or have never heard of them.
Adam is using the center drill to spot the hole he intends to drill. Not optimal, but quite common practice in the shop. I get a kick by how Adam is using a piece of plastic to demonstrate the usefulness of center drilling in a lathe where experienced lathe operators will just choke-up on the drill and feed slowly to start the drill and keep it from wandering.
Nice explanation as usual. By the way, got dressed in a rush? Your Savage teeshirt is inside out.
Adam et al: if you want an upgrade, get some spotting drills. Their angle will be much closer to the drill you'll use, and you won't run into the nightmare of breaking off the little nub in your part.
Center drills are designed for providing a hole for lathe centers -- so while they work well enough, it's easy to find the tool that works just a little better. (Also, more tools!)
So true. Having the angle match that of your drill is much nicer for the drill as well. Not so much of an issue with HSS drills, But I've heard some carbide drills really don't like drilling into center drilled holes. For my mil/lathe I've ground my own "spotting drill" out of some round HSS, either as a spade drill or as a d-bit. They both work great.
As a retired cnc machinist , I used 90 degree spot drills 99% of the time with usually 118 degree drills . The outside edge of the drill would catch the edge of the spot hole with equal pressure bites of the wall the 118 degrees centers the drill hole position
.
@@j.davidbennett8373
Spot drills are just simply the best choice and it amazes me to this day that even years long machinists have no idea that they even exist. I also enjoy drilling that bit extra deep and getting the hole chamfered for free. No need to chamfer in another op after the hole is drilled.
Drives me nuts when I see center drills being used on a drill machine.
I've been using spotting drills for years and was going to recommend the same thing.
This is directly from a Guhring catalog.
"
If using a HSS or HSCO drill, choose a spot drill with a smaller point angle (i.e. spot with a 90° drill, follow with a 130° drill)
For a carbide drill, choose a spot drill with a larger point angle (i.e. spot with a 142° drill, follow with a 140° carbide drill)
"
Bought some the other day, just because i needed some 5mm drill bits for rivets, and am tired of the bits wandering as well. Plus you get 2 chances to break the drill bit. Will also say that if you have the misfortune to do work on 316L stainless steel that has been work hardened by being spin moulded, and not annealed, you will not go wrong budgeting one drill bit per hole. You might be lucky and get three holes before the bit turns into a friction stir rod, but generally just a shade over 2 holes per bit. Last few I had run out, so yes that 600W AEG drill was quite happy to cook the holes through it. The 800W Bosch could not turn fast enough, though it does have enough torque on it to drill 25mm holes through reinforced concrete, never mind if there is actual reinforcing rod in the way, plus the plain bits are cheaper than SDS. The 5mm SDS bit lost the tip, though it made no difference to it drilling, still went in fine, just a second more per hole. 6km of conduit with one drill bit is good, till I borrowed it from the electrician and found a bit of loose granite. Still in use as a centre punch. Building sites are brutal on power tools.
When I was doing more actual installing as an electrician, we had to drill a lot of holes for screws in aluminium trunking. I don't know where i found one center drill just the right size, but that made it so much easier. With regular metal drill of about 6-7 mm you need to actually push the drill in to aluminium, but with center drill bit with similar size shank in a cordless drill its pretty much effortless to do. It took some time to find out what those drill bits actually were, before i was actually able to find and buy more of them. So, a "precision tool" also works for speed and comfort in not that precise construction.
The spiral or helix of a regular drillbit often grabs the material and pulls on it! You could dull the drillbit a little to make it grab less or do what you did and use a centre drill :)
if it was a tungsten carbide drillbit, maybe u dont need a centredrill for it, cause its so strong anyway.
@@Kaffeslampa yep, it will pull slightly, but only after it has started to bite in to the material. I have sharpened (brutally with an angle grinder and free hand) a lot of drill bits for that and it helps to make that "bite angle" way steeper, so it starts to bite easier and won't let go that often. It is done by hand after all, so keeping constant and straight pressure would make it much harder.
I have even tried to sharpen sds+ concrete bits to be like metal drills, so I could just slam it though in one go to the wall. Makes hell of a noise, but some colleagues do it even with those regular dull concrete bits. I was surprised how long that sds+ bit kept its sharpness while hammering to concrete.
@@shitheadjohnson2797 it's still the same profile and area you are trying to push trough, it just keeps sharp longer. With center drill it's just like using a smaller pilot drill, as the material is only couple mm thick.
@@shitheadjohnson2797
Yes but they are brittle.
Adam trying to get the tiny drill focused:
"Focus you fack!"
Ave lives on.
AvE forever
a blurry collab would be awesome
The Magic words from AvE.
02:44 ..and only for a minute?
hah! thought the same thing
If you don't have a center drill, just use a wobbly part. Same same.
With this 3d printed lathe chuck I have, the part is always wobbly
Yes?
I kept hearing AvE's voice every time Adam argued with the focus on his camera.
Funniest Tested video ever! Thank you Adam for not scrapping it and getting all of the autofocus right. You are human and the content was still there.
Oh I agree! I know some young craftsmen put like a letter A on their thumb nail with black marker so that the camera focuses better. This is just silly, lovely.
Adam will you please talk about Onewheel/FutureMotion and right to repair?
"I like making mistakes on purpose"
-Adam Savage, 2022
Living in San Francisco (i think i got that right), you probably use slightly left of center drill bits.
This is a joke, people, i am here all night! ^-^
I was always told that a center drill is so named because it preps the work for using either a live or dead center for support.
You are correct. That's why they're typically 60 degree angles. Spotting drills are specifically used pepping for further drilling, but center drills are also effective, usually based on short rigid lengths.
Correk !
See AvE's opinion on auto focus.
The "wandering" is mainly caused by the tip center being parallel to the end of the workpiece. the wider the tip, the more it will wander. The more you sharpen a drill bit, the wider the tip will get, as the core of the spiral gets wider the closer you get to the shank. When I apprenticed as a fitter back in the mid-90's, we would often grind the tip after sharpening the drill bits to get it narrower. This also helped the bit cut better, as a wide tip has to be forced through the material.
You also use the center drill to prep for the running center. Without using the running center, on longer material, you risk some serious chatter at the end furthest away from the chuck.
Unfortunately I haven't had access to a lathe for decades, as I changed career path after my apprenticeship ended. Today I work as a technical designer at a concrete element factory...
The changing in the drill geometry is called either "WEB-THINNING" or "SPLIT-POINTING".
There's so much truth in this video. Thank you for keeping this just as you did it's amazing how many times in the shop I will get so frustrated just trying to do the simplest thing. So any trick to make it better is appreciated
Watching Adam struggle with the focus on the camera automatically makes me think of a certain catchphrase of sorts of one AvE. It seems to be remarkably effective, but sadly I'm sure Adam is too family friendly to employ its usage.
Focus You Fack!
Yes!!! He was definitely having an AvE moment. "Focus, you f***!"
Adam, you haven’t learned the AvE focusing incantation. You really have to master that one, it works a treat! 🤣
I have it on good authority that if you just shout "focus, you fack!" the camera will cooperate.
I'm disappointed how far down I had to scroll to find someone mentioning AVE's unofficial catchphrase. Engage safety squints!
This subject came up in the Hellboy's Samaritan one day build as well, where Adam addressed the movement of drill bits when doing the barrel!
Center drills are for making 60 degree internal angles for centers. You need a spot drill, for HSS drill that would be a 90 degree spot for an 118 deg point drill. Only for HSS/cobalt. Carbide spots/drills are different. Use a 142 deg spot for a carbide 140 deg drill tip. As a machinist and now tooling salesman I run into this a lot from customers
fyi at work we pretty much use the 90 deg spots on everything, including when using carbide if we feel like it. Most carbide drills that we use though we don't spot.
I was taught center drills were only for dead and live centers.and to use the spotting short nose drills for hole starting as there's less flex
same, they also dont have a section at the front that can break off like centerdrills
After 45 years as a machinist I aLways used a center drill both conventional and CNC machines. I use step drills for light steel. They are stiff and work great.
Great video! You should consider getting high quality magic arm for your camera. Your current mount doesn't appear to be too smooth.
I have an older keyed chuck that I leave a center drill in at all times. I only swap out bits in my keyless chucks. That makes it almost effortless to always use it. I would prefer to use spot drills rather than center drills for that purpose, but the convenience with the center drill tends to win out for me, and it's rare that it makes a big difference (at least in my work).
Such a wonderful time watching Adam do his thing. That lathe goes down to a millionth on X😳😳😳
For the 'regular' guy (or gal) that doesn't have extensive hardware for drilling, and this goes for drill press and even hand drills and you find your drill tip wandering, a good tip I got from my father (many many years ago; thanks Pop) is to short chuck the drill (minimize the protrusion of the drill tip from the chuck). The reduced exposed drill shank will be stiffer and wander less (or not at all).
With Adam struggling with the camera focusing incorrectly, I was just waiting for Adam to break into the AVE phrase of "Focus you ____"
hats of to Adam for managing not to do an AVE; even though he wants, to maybe there is Adam's outtakes on the patreon
centre drill are your friend....try a spotting drill in your drill press...solves the same drill bit wobble...but spotting drills are longer than spotting drills...for the drill press.
Great video, Adam. I love the lathe, i have tried a few projects on my wood lathe, you can see the really bad woodworking skills on my channel if you want a good cringe 😅
I'd love to see you do more lathe projects, preferably wood. Have you ever turned a bowl before?👍
Adam, greatly appreciated person. Inventive, charming chaotic and get's the job done eventually. I like your style! I'm a similar person and used to use a center drill a lot. But, when cutting nasty hard stuff like the Inconel's and waspaloy's the center drill ends his functional use just to soon for the price to obtain such a gem. Therefore I use a 45 degrees indexable chamfering tool to make a center hole for the upcoming drill. In the middle or center it doesn't cut so you have to start off center first and shift to the center afterwards. Than you dig a hole big enough for the drill to follow. The insert lasts a hundred times (estimate, I'm in for alcohol) better than burning the HSS center drills in two or three workpieces (excoriating, it's the intake again) Maybe this helps you to be a even more daring and confident machinist. Keep up the good work; much appreciated! Best, Job
I’m getting flashes of AvE with your fucus issues, a lot less salty Canuck, but same energy.
Adam needs to adopt the AvE method of focusing a camera
It's magical how those three words can get the camera to work.
So they're like regular drill bits, but with a short, beefy shank for stiffness and stability. I knew what they were for but didn't understand the reasoning behind their design. Thanks Adam!
I was half expecting Adam to yell at his camera, "FOCUS you F#@K!" and then I realized I wasn't watching AvE. 😂
Here's Adam having another lathe'y in the workshop! I just keep seeing an accident waiting to happen during the demonstration.
Its much more apparent on self sharpened drill bits as its near impossible to keep the point centered
yeah, as someone mentioned above, when you sharpen a bit it causes it to widen, since the bit also gets wider as it goes down. So the more it's sharpened, the more parallel surface touches the element, the more the bit wanders.
Great video. It does sound like you've got an electric motor about to fail somewhere in the background haha.
We have carbide drills at our work. We've always center-drilled but recently someone said that the carbide drills don't need centering! We now drill without centering and the results might actually be better now because the center drill would sometimes leave a peg that decentered the carbide drill. Sounds weird that the center drill would be the weak spot but things don't always work in practice as it does in theory.
Unless I'm actually going to use a lathe centre, I avoid the use of a centre drill.
I've never broken the tip off a spotting drill!
+1 for spotting drill!! They are faster and drill bits last longer if you use the correct angle!
Would those center drills be appropriate for starting accurate holes when using a drill press?
If your serious about drilling on center you’ll find it’s better to keep the tail stock drawn back in, as it is extended there’s less support and the outboard end can droop a few thousandths , these is pretty much true of any tooling, keep it as short and as ridged as possible
I love using a center drill in the drill press to countersink holes as I drill them. Far more accurate than trying to use a countersink bit after the fact. 👍
If I had a lathe, I'd definitely use them there too.
I do the same thing with clapped out end mills, flat countersink reuse recycle before heading to the scrapyard
Very much like brad point drill bits in woodworking (or for me, guitar repair and making), especially in a hand drill. No need to worry about a wandering bit ruining something, or making your tuning key installation look all goofy because one of the holes wandered off and now the whole tuning key is out of alignment with it’s neighbors. (This is less of an issue on tuning keys that use hidden pins instead of external screw tabs because someone came up with a drill guide for those that clamps in place through the headstock.)
Everyone can have a bad day 😂Just stay calm and try to focus 😁
"Adam fights with autofocus for nine minutes."
The center drill is also to accommodate the center ,live or dead. Do you have a #8 ?
camera refused to focus because you didn't use AVE's magic command
Operating a lathe is so much fun.
Try using stub length drill bits. In most cases they won't move like a jobber length bit. It can save you the time of changing between center drill and jobber drill. Very seldom do you really need a jobber length bit anyway.
Throwback to my lathe exam when I snapped both ends of the centre drills into my workpiece which I need to drill completely through - somehow I passed
Probably gained "points" with how you dealt with the problem.
You don't fail by falling off the horse. You fail by not getting back on.
Hi sir
I am from chemical engineering. I would like to know what are the different between the drilling bit angles and what each angle used for?
The other question the Centre drilling bit the 2 ends are the same or one is the left and the other is the right handed side?
Center drill is also crucial if you need to use a tail stock.
You have so many tools I never knew existed.
Is there a difference between using a center drill vs a brad point bit?
Stub length drills are substantially stiffer than jobber length drills. In most cases, even in Delrin :-), stub length drills can be used without spotting.
Thanks sir 😊👍.
Adam, what about "spot drills"? Are those even more accurate than "center drills"? I feel like they could be! Let us know :)
I do not have a lathe, but can you use center drills with a drill press?
I see a lot of comments about using spotting drills but nobody is talking about 135 degree split point stub length drills. No center drilling or spot drilling necessary. Jobber drills get the job done but stubs are much faster. While you might argue that a stub length drill might not be the most accurate hole we all know reaming a hole is much more accurate. Better yet bore the hole.
Umm... Center drills are for prepping a part to be turned between centers, the cone is 60 degrees, same as your lathe centers. They are also ground with clearance and will side cut to a certain degree, mic the tip on one and slowly rotate it (taps are ground the same way, mic a four flute, cutting edge then heal). Twist drill margins are a diameter.
Adam your lathe is orginal or converted into numeric display?
LOL when you move the camera I am always happy I dont suffer from motion sickness.
The problem I have with maker spaces in the bay Area is that they're SOOOO expensive!! HumanMade in San Francisco is $150 a month and "The Crucible" in Oakland is $300 a month!!!!! in comparison, a gasless welding ring is $170 at home Depot.... with the cost of two months of subscription to this "maker" spaces you can start your own shop at home!!!
FOCUS YOU FACK!
Love that yt offers to translate that to English.
I'm not a patriot, so my question will probably remain unanswered, but what courses in your schooling, did you take that aided your career as a maker? i.e Woodshop, electronics, machine shop etc.
AvE knows the magic words to focus the camera
Does it really matter if you centre drill with stock extended? The load is axial not radial.
You can edit out moving the camera you know...
Highly recommend you four point grind your drills. They cut better and do not wander.
Always thought it was called a center drill because it was for drilling the hole for a lathe tailstock center.
Correct Brian, I was going to reply to this missed fact. Adam misses many of these facts as he hasn't served an apprenticeship.
I felt your frustration with the focus, I would have rage quit after the 5th or 6th time.
It's the right way to do things
focussss, chanelling your inner ave
Still waiting for the video with my question.
I just want to point out how refreshingly easy it was for Adam to catch himself saying "manly shoulders" and just be like "oh, hey, that's not great" and just fix it. No whining about PC police, just recognizing unconscious harm being done, correcting, and moving on. Bravo, Adam, what a great example for all of us.
It’s harmful to acknowledge men have larger shoulders than women? 🤔
Way to be the perfect counter example, much appreciated!
@@askthepaperclip Way to completely ignore the question. Not surprising.
This information is incomplete. Although center drills can be used to start a pilot for a twist drill, it is not the primary purpose of them. The primary purpose is to drill a hole for a live center (or a dead center) in the tailstock. A spotting drill is the proper tool for starting a hole for drilling. Many people will just use the center drill because it's handy, not because it's purpose built for the job.
The centre still running out because it followed the twist drill centre
I ideally you want a flat face before Centre drilling then it’s bang on
I was just waiting for a, "focus you faaaack."
The secret is to say “Focus you f*ck.” 😂
Unrelated question, have you ever been approached with the idea of a TV show on One Day Builds.
wheres a cameraman when yo need one lol
in this video: *focus!...FOCUS!!!*
Everyone working on a lathe should use a centered drill.
I took some formation in that, and not only it make it more centered, it also help with some bit to keep to part we work on more supported. On top it make the work place safer and easier to clean.
I'm even surprised someone asked...
If you make a mistake on purpose, is is really still a mistake? lol Love center drills and this was a great explanation!
Center drill isn't geometrically designed for "spotting", it's shaped in that weird way to drill a hole for the lathe centers when you want to support the material or machine between centers.
There are better geometries for spotting drills that have the same angle as with normal 118degree drill so the engagement happens properly when drilling.
Yes, using center drill works, but it's not exactly designed for the purpose even if everyone uses it for it.
It is best to ask such questions to experts. The tip of the center drill is suitable for centering a 118 degree drill, but the shoulder of this center drill is NOT. Mr Gotteswinter is an expert and explains this in his video.ruclips.net/channel/UCiDJtJKMICpb9B1qf7qjEOAjoin
That's why my holes are garbage. Now I need more stuff!
Adam is like old wine. he ages well
4:23 Drill Familly.
wow this is something you should learn in school
I saw this title and asked myself.. why doesn't everyone use center drills?
Thanks for this. I always see ClickSpring using these and assumed they were important but I wasn't sure why.
I wanted to run a centering bit through that camera setup 😥
Unwatchable, right? This should be on the cutting room floor.
what fantastic content.
Why not use a spade drill?
I believe the technical term is "weeble-wobbling", at least in the frozen hellhole of Canuckistan.
simple answer: because I have a mental block that makes me subconsciously not film while I'm using one."
also, high speed steel bits flex more than you think, but often less than you need. anyone with multiple half full boxes of small high speed steel drill bits will get that reference.
When the focus isnt right I hear a loud voice in my head “focus you phuck” - You know exactly which Canadian I mean
Is there not a manual focus option on iPhones? Surprising
That's because camera phones have really dumb autofocus algorithms which can't do macro photography.....that's why real cameras cost serious money and most people doing macro use manual focus and micrometer stages
@@steveclarke6257 I just meant cos my supposedly inferior Samsung *does* have that option
@@CK-ceekay not in the same way that my Nikon DSLR has with either my 60mm or 105mm Macro lenses does, or my reversed Ai-S 24mm lens on manual focus and extension tubes. My magnification is about 10x doing that, with a DoF of about 1mm
@@steveclarke6257 Jesus mate, I get it, all I'm saying is that I'm surprised Adam's phone doesn't let him decide which broad area is in focus with a dial. He's not photographing electrons
I allways use senterdrill in the workshop
sorry the the camera work on this one is rough... more than a bit dizzy from this lol
You shouldn't have a watch or ring(s) on when using any kind of rotary power tools like drills, lathe, mill. If any part of the machine grabs it: your members are going to get ripped off, not the ring or the watch