17:15 - You made a mistake there you'll have 8 outs on the flop and 7 outs on the turn. Since you have to discount the 4 of hearts and whatever blank comes on the turn. If you get it all in on that flop against a set you're going to be a 4 to 1 underdog and if the turn blanks you'll be a 6.3 to 1 underdog. Also, I think you did kind of imply it, but didn't emphasise that when you have nothing more than a nut flush draw or open ender you're going to need position on whoever potted it on the flop. As it's too easy for the flop bettor to fold to your river leads or check behind when that obvious scare card hits.
Good info. Started playing low stakes Omaha bc 4 cards is sexier than 2. Been learning a lot from your videos, I appreciate how much time and effort you put into your videos. Cheers, professor
Ty so much for the comment and Ty for watching! I hope (if you haven’t already) you go back and start on episode 1 - lots of good info I’m giving out there!
Hi this is John. I appreciate the training videos. I watched your live play videos too, I'm trying to get better it seems that your live play a lot more range than just the "rules" used for starting hands in your training videos. That's ok i understand can you talk more when it's ok to limp like early position or when the whole table limps and you can't raise with only say 3 card rundown unsuited, also please please do more on Omaha low i lose so much on draws and being quartered. thanks
I will make sure to cover some more Omaha hi/lo specifically. Ty for watching and Ty for the question. The purpose of sticking to the 3 hand rule is for people to understand that’s the basis. If they are freshly coming from NLHE - they should stick to those no matter what. As you play more PLO you can start opening up your range some more. I happen to have a very wide range because I’m more willing to steal pots and apply pressure where I think I can get others to fold. I never prefer limping…. However early position I can see that. If you have someone who is always potting it non stop I can see limping. There is some justification to a limping strategy - I just usually don’t like implementing it (I like to play big pots). And yes. 3 card rundown like TJQ4 unsuited. - not a raising hand but I can see calling depending on the situation, position, etc….
So your odds to draw are perfect sort of the more people that call on the flop the better for you with the nut draw.. but your really just targeting getting there on the turn.. 200 200 200 200 gives you roughly 18% to hit what you are getting 20% equity. because if you miss your facing 1k to see the river which is nearly always a fold unless say your last guy and 3-4 others call in which case your base equity is down to 25% from 20 so you have to make that up with a river bet which works great when they will call with lesser... not so well when they wont. VERY game dependent how ever.... i have gone 6-7 ways to a turn with a nut draw as well basically the more calling stations the less you push your equity is the best part of this lesson. (winning PLO player at the 5-5-10 level currently 400 hours in this year with 50per)
Ty for watching and the point / question. Yes, with a nut draw it’s good to call to get more callers. On the turn if the villain pots it and you don’t hit - yes it’s an easy fold (unless there are 2 callers in front of you).
The idea though is that you have implied odds to make up for that 2%.....it is against a bad/medium player that is going to pay you off when you make your flush on the turn.
Preflop: Is there ever a time when it is correct to 3-bet and then fold to a 4-bet Would you be better off modifying you 3 bet range to account for this and perhaps simply avoid ever being in a spot where folding after 3-betting is correct? How does stack depth impact this answer?
Great questions! Ty for asking and watching! First of all stack sizes are extremely important. I know I’ve stressed that in previous videos and didn’t mention it much in this video. Because there is a limit on the bet (POT) it’s hard to justify a fold when you 3 bet and someone 4 bets. You can find folds though if their stack size is small. So if you 3 bet to 150 and someone 4 bets to 500….. and they only have 200-300 behind I can find a fold….. Not very often but I can find one. On the other hand if they 800-2k behind their 4 bet….. I don’t think I could find a fold
I would think that if the player 4 Bets you only with AAxx and you 3 bet with AKKx or AKQdangler then a fold would be called for, as stated if there are very little implied odds.
In my experience, hands that don’t do well against aces can easily be folded when facing a 4-bet from a player that always has AAxx. If SPR is high enough and you have position, one can put a player that always has aces in nasty spots with any hand. This is where knowing the opponents tendencies is key. In general one can 3-bet wider when some portion of that range does not defend to a 4-bet.
How do you proceed with AAxx against bad players if you're not all-in pre? Let's say it's a medium flop, 49J rainbow, and you have AA with maybe a backdoor flush or straight. If the bad player shoves the flop, are you just closing your eyes and calling every time?
Just to be "that guy" If you think the player is betting pot (200) with a set, you've only got 8 outs to the turn as the 4 hearts is no good....so you're at roughly 32% right?
17:15 - You made a mistake there you'll have 8 outs on the flop and 7 outs on the turn. Since you have to discount the 4 of hearts and whatever blank comes on the turn. If you get it all in on that flop against a set you're going to be a 4 to 1 underdog and if the turn blanks you'll be a 6.3 to 1 underdog. Also, I think you did kind of imply it, but didn't emphasise that when you have nothing more than a nut flush draw or open ender you're going to need position on whoever potted it on the flop. As it's too easy for the flop bettor to fold to your river leads or check behind when that obvious scare card hits.
Good info. Started playing low stakes Omaha bc 4 cards is sexier than 2. Been learning a lot from your videos, I appreciate how much time and effort you put into your videos. Cheers, professor
Ty so much for the comment and Ty for watching!
First five minutes I’ve already learned some nice info.
Ty so much for the comment and Ty for watching! I hope (if you haven’t already) you go back and start on episode 1 - lots of good info I’m giving out there!
I hit the like. Trying to play more plo but not all card rooms deal it. Good videos
Ty so much for watching and liking!
Hi this is John. I appreciate the training videos. I watched your live play videos too, I'm trying to get better it seems that your live play a lot more range than just the "rules" used for starting hands in your training videos. That's ok i understand can you talk more when it's ok to limp like early position or when the whole table limps and you can't raise with only say 3 card rundown unsuited, also please please do more on Omaha low i lose so much on draws and being quartered. thanks
I will make sure to cover some more Omaha hi/lo specifically.
Ty for watching and Ty for the question.
The purpose of sticking to the 3 hand rule is for people to understand that’s the basis. If they are freshly coming from NLHE - they should stick to those no matter what. As you play more PLO you can start opening up your range some more. I happen to have a very wide range because I’m more willing to steal pots and apply pressure where I think I can get others to fold. I never prefer limping…. However early position I can see that. If you have someone who is always potting it non stop I can see limping.
There is some justification to a limping strategy - I just usually don’t like implementing it (I like to play big pots).
And yes. 3 card rundown like TJQ4 unsuited. - not a raising hand but I can see calling depending on the situation, position, etc….
So your odds to draw are perfect sort of the more people that call on the flop the better for you with the nut draw.. but your really just targeting getting there on the turn.. 200 200 200 200 gives you roughly 18% to hit what you are getting 20% equity. because if you miss your facing 1k to see the river which is nearly always a fold unless say your last guy and 3-4 others call in which case your base equity is down to 25% from 20 so you have to make that up with a river bet which works great when they will call with lesser... not so well when they wont. VERY game dependent how ever.... i have gone 6-7 ways to a turn with a nut draw as well basically the more calling stations the less you push your equity is the best part of this lesson. (winning PLO player at the 5-5-10 level currently 400 hours in this year with 50per)
Ty for watching and the point / question.
Yes, with a nut draw it’s good to call to get more callers.
On the turn if the villain pots it and you don’t hit - yes it’s an easy fold (unless there are 2 callers in front of you).
The idea though is that you have implied odds to make up for that 2%.....it is against a bad/medium player that is going to pay you off when you make your flush on the turn.
Preflop:
Is there ever a time when it is correct to 3-bet and then fold to a 4-bet Would you be better off modifying you 3 bet range to account for this and perhaps simply avoid ever being in a spot where folding after 3-betting is correct? How does stack depth impact this answer?
Great questions! Ty for asking and watching!
First of all stack sizes are extremely important. I know I’ve stressed that in previous videos and didn’t mention it much in this video. Because there is a limit on the bet (POT) it’s hard to justify a fold when you 3 bet and someone 4 bets.
You can find folds though if their stack size is small. So if you 3 bet to 150 and someone 4 bets to 500….. and they only have 200-300 behind I can find a fold…..
Not very often but I can find one.
On the other hand if they 800-2k behind their 4 bet….. I don’t think I could find a fold
I would think that if the player 4 Bets you only with AAxx and you 3 bet with AKKx or AKQdangler then a fold would be called for, as stated if there are very little implied odds.
In my experience, hands that don’t do well against aces can easily be folded when facing a 4-bet from a player that always has AAxx. If SPR is high enough and you have position, one can put a player that always has aces in nasty spots with any hand. This is where knowing the opponents tendencies is key. In general one can 3-bet wider when some portion of that range does not defend to a 4-bet.
i like ur vids think u may be a little wrong about 3 betting ace high flush in hand with danglers and 3 betting 99xx but other than that its good
3 betting is alway player, position, and table dependent!
Ty for the comment and Ty for watching
Mike Postle Scandal was only 3 years ago, but I think with COVID and everything the past 3 years we can just say 5 lol
Yes it was 3 years ago - my discussion with Daniel Negranu at Stones took place around 5 years ago!
Ty for the comment and Ty for watching!
Oh gotchya
How do you proceed with AAxx against bad players if you're not all-in pre? Let's say it's a medium flop, 49J rainbow, and you have AA with maybe a backdoor flush or straight. If the bad player shoves the flop, are you just closing your eyes and calling every time?
Against an aggressive bad player here, not a super tight one
I would stay patient…. Keep in mind it’s player dependent but for the most part I’d love to play another hand
Just to be "that guy" If you think the player is betting pot (200) with a set, you've only got 8 outs to the turn as the 4 hearts is no good....so you're at roughly 32% right?
Correct