I think what you have to compare it with is a +1 CON bonus, since that's the direct comparison, using an ASI to get +1 STR and +1 CON. So for a 5th level player taking the ASI to get to an even CON, that's going to give them 5 extra HP (along with a +1 CON saving throw bump). If they get hit just twice with Heavy Armor Master, they take 6 less damage, so they are already ahead. For a 9th level player, if they get hit four times, they are ahead again. If I'm wearing heavy armor, I'm going to be in the middle of melee, so I'm assuming I'm going to get hit many times in a given adventuring day, so Heavy Armor Master is a win even at higher levels. Sure, some monsters have magical attacks (balor, pit fiend, golem, ...) but the vast majority don't (mind flayer, elemental, dragon, giant, aboleth, most devils, most demons), even in late game.
@@AtelierGod you are absolutely right, my mistake. That being said, my understanding is that claws et al are still weapons, they are just natural weapons.
We just started a new game after a COVID hiatus. I made a Paladin, classic sword and board. I took Heavy Armour Master .... this feat saved my life in our fist fight. I'm the only front line fighter, and wanted to be the tank of the party. We were ambushed on the road to a town by 6 monsters - all of them had 2 attacks on a full round (our DM throws a lot at us.) This feat kept me alive and straight negated damage! I was standing there as the stalwart and it was awesome! I know the feat will diminish in value the higher level we go, but I definitely felt like my character, along with the party, could have died during that encounter. Praise the armour!
@@bluedragonguild it's awesome and definitely gives you the tank vibe. I could tell me DM was a little thrown off (we used to play 3.5 exclusively so all the 5e rules and feats are new to us.) And being able to RP "Their claws hit me, but you notice them bounce off my armour as I stand strong" haha I think you'll really like it -- it's a great boost at early levels!
At my table I changed the damage reduction to be equal to your proficiency bonus. This makes it a bit less op on levels 1-4 and reduces the drop in viability in later parts of the game. It also reflects your superiority with heavy armor compared to weaker enemies.
Good way to scale this feat is if you can get your DM to approve it being equal to your prof bonus, rather than a flat 3 forever. It's a little worse until level 5, so its a bit of a risk if the campaign ends soon after that
@@bluedragonguild oh yea, once that mechanic was introduced in one of the recent books of using your prof bonus as ability counter or value tracker I could tell immediately that some older feats and abilities would be really improved with it. Now if only they had that thought earlier lol
@@bluedragonguild oooh yea, I could easily see that helping that ability a ton! 2 uses is absolutely criminal, almost as bad as purp dragon Knight's rallying cry
In my games I rule full plate armor give a natural reduction of 5 hit points from weapon attacks that deal piercing slashing and bludgeoning damage. This also makes the strength base characters feel better compared to the over powered Dexterity base ones.
There is another few ways you can look at this as well. HAM is obviously good at lower levels no doubt and yes while it loses its "punch" at the higher levels it still has its benefits. One thing is hordes of enemies always seem to occur no matter what level. Having -3 to each hit makes tanking that horde as you and your party shave them down. Magical weapons or attacks from creatures are probably for the most part rare even at higher levels, and typically when a monster scales in CR what usually scales for a lot of creatures is multiattack. So even if you get hit 3 times from a creatures multi attack you reduce 9 damage still pretty good thinking that 9 damage (essentially a free lvl 1/2 cure wounds spell or a health potion) may be exactly what keeps you character alive and fighting or even allow your healer or ally to focus on attacking instead of healing. Some have even meta brewed this to scale like your proficiency bonus which reduces the OPness early but makes it scale better as you level. At the end of the day i think this is just one of those feats that makes sense to just take early on 1 or 4th level. But i don't think you will regret taking the feat, as i would assume 9 out of 10 times its the very feat that keeps you alive to even get to those higher levels in the first place.
Yeah and if an enemy does show up with a magic weapon to get around the feat, then you’re not too bad off when you now have a magic weapon after the combat.
That is quite fair and I apologize for letting you down! I would take a look at the three feats introduced in Tasha’s: Piercer, Crusher, and Slasher. They offer a nice increase to Strength (or dex/con) as well as some good offensive abilities!
I'm currently on lv4 I built my Goliath Fighter Psi Warrior to absorb damage with things using Stone’s Endurance add the Heavy Armor Master feat and using Protective Field. I'll multi-class into barbarian after lv5 for rage to add resistance.
For the heavy armor users not trying to get hit(pushing armor) is good. However, the higher your armor, (forge Cleric, armorer artificer), the less likely you will be hit, so -3 does less for Armor pushes. That said, almost all builds won't have over 18 Armor at the levels they say this is useful.
@@bluedragonguild I’m taking it at lvl 4 and it upped my str from 17-18 so that’s giving me a better bonus. My character tends to get surrounded by lower lvl monsters, so hopefully the 3 points of DR will come in handy. That’s for the reply! Cool channel. You got a sub from me
@@Pip3603 it sounds like it was quite beneficial for you! I feel like that reduction will serve you well, especially if you’re often surrounded! Thank you for sub!!
I mean, I like to think about this feat in comparison to the tough feat. Tough gives you +2hp per your level, up to a maximum of +40 at level 20. To surpass it with the 40hp you get, you need to get hit 14 times with non-magical bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage specifically. I really love the idea of this feat though. The one thing I think really isn't talked about is that you get the 3 damage reduction ON TOP of a +1 to Strength. That's just nice for rounding out characters if you've maxed con, wanna round out your Strength, and wanna be tankier. Plus, we just don't have a lot of good strength feats out there. Say you want a strength feat instead of an ASI. Maybe strength is your only odd score, or you don't wanna put extra numbers in dump stats for character reasons. Your options are; The ability to wear new armor, though you probably already have the armor you want. Training in 4 martial weapons, though you probably already have the weapons you want. Bonuses to bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage, as feats. They're fine, probably comparable to this feat in use. There's a few race specific ones, but unless you're already the race that doesn't help a ton. Tavern Brawler can also give a +1, though as fun as it is, it's more flavor than practicality. Skill expert, if you really wanna? That leaves the final option; if you're are at 19 Strength, and really don't need another +1 to other stats (looking at you, fighter), -3 to pretty common damage types is a fine bonus to have. Just wish it scaled better.
Smg065 thank you for this super detailed layout! I think at the time I made the video I just couldn’t wrap my head around all the numbers and other things to account for. I am working on a follow up video to this one. Corrupted SD cards are causing the process to take a bit longer than I’d like 😅
my third level orc fighter has str 17 dex 14 and con 16. He is a great weapon champion and weilds a magical great axe cursed of beserking. i like the feat as the + 1 str will make my str and EVEN 18. what other choice is there. The other choices will leave my main attribute at 17 or dump 2 into str and have 19 (same stats as 18)
Hey Tom, thanks for the comment! I think if you are looking to get a bump to increase your Strength the Slasher feat from Tasha’s would serve you really well. Unless you are wanting that damage reduction, because that would also serve you well! I hope this helped, and feel free to ask any time!
@@bluedragonguild wanting to gift this as a reward for one of my players, maybe it could be dependent on their strength or con mod since I think it would be the adventurer shrugging off the damage
@@pokemonlemons I think that would be a great gift for your player! There are some awesome people who have commented a mathematical type break down of the feat as is, so def take a look at them!
Yes, its worth it. Sure later on it'll "fall off" but that's because damage is higher, but it'll still reduce damage where it can. Hopefully by the end of 2024, it reduces damage by PB, scaling throughout the campaign. Really wish they did Medium Armor Master good, and there's nothing for Light Armor Master.
That is quite true. This is one of those videos where I have changed my mind on my original stance. So many great people have done the math side of things and directed my point of view to a different way. I def agree on the medium and light armor master!!
This Feat is a little bit of a letdown, especially when compared to Moderate Armor Master. It's a half feat sure, but it's restricted to just boosting strength and there's better options.
Yeah, In some aspects of def is. I think as a dm I’d homebrew the player to boost strength or dex. Depending on the game you’re playing in it may be more helpful (1-5) but in higher levels of play I feel it does fall off a bit. But several others have commented laying out some fun mathematics about the feat so def take a look at those!
that is very true. Since making this video several wonderful people have been kind enough to give a good break down of the numbers of the feat as well as a few other things. I am definitely reevaluating my stance on it and am (slowly) working on an update to this video. Thanks for the comment!
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I think what you have to compare it with is a +1 CON bonus, since that's the direct comparison, using an ASI to get +1 STR and +1 CON. So for a 5th level player taking the ASI to get to an even CON, that's going to give them 5 extra HP (along with a +1 CON saving throw bump). If they get hit just twice with Heavy Armor Master, they take 6 less damage, so they are already ahead. For a 9th level player, if they get hit four times, they are ahead again. If I'm wearing heavy armor, I'm going to be in the middle of melee, so I'm assuming I'm going to get hit many times in a given adventuring day, so Heavy Armor Master is a win even at higher levels. Sure, some monsters have magical attacks (balor, pit fiend, golem, ...) but the vast majority don't (mind flayer, elemental, dragon, giant, aboleth, most devils, most demons), even in late game.
David, that’s a very good way of looking at it! A way I obviously didn’t consider!
Doesn’t the feat specify weapons and as such due to wording anything that uses body parts like claws wouldn’t be protected by this feat?
@@AtelierGod No, it does not specify weapons, just types of damage.
@@dbrandow “While you are wearing heavy armor, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage that you take from nonmagical weapons is reduced by 3.”
@@AtelierGod you are absolutely right, my mistake. That being said, my understanding is that claws et al are still weapons, they are just natural weapons.
As someone playing a Variant Human War Domain Cleric, currently level 5, I concur that at lower levels of play this Feat is a literal lifesaver.
Awesome! I am glad it is proving useful to you!
We just started a new game after a COVID hiatus. I made a Paladin, classic sword and board. I took Heavy Armour Master .... this feat saved my life in our fist fight.
I'm the only front line fighter, and wanted to be the tank of the party. We were ambushed on the road to a town by 6 monsters - all of them had 2 attacks on a full round (our DM throws a lot at us.)
This feat kept me alive and straight negated damage! I was standing there as the stalwart and it was awesome! I know the feat will diminish in value the higher level we go, but I definitely felt like my character, along with the party, could have died during that encounter.
Praise the armour!
That is awesome!! I am reevaluating my views on this feat, and plan to make my next character with it!
@@bluedragonguild it's awesome and definitely gives you the tank vibe. I could tell me DM was a little thrown off (we used to play 3.5 exclusively so all the 5e rules and feats are new to us.)
And being able to RP "Their claws hit me, but you notice them bounce off my armour as I stand strong" haha
I think you'll really like it -- it's a great boost at early levels!
@elliottslinn5478 that sounds awesome! Our group also went from 3.5 to 5e and we still mix up rules 9 years later 😂
Another great video for for all skill levels of d&d players...great job!
Thanks for the love J-Money!!
At my table I changed the damage reduction to be equal to your proficiency bonus.
This makes it a bit less op on levels 1-4 and reduces the drop in viability in later parts of the game.
It also reflects your superiority with heavy armor compared to weaker enemies.
That is a really cool change to the feat! It definitely reflects a lot of the abilities that have come in the latest books.
Good way to scale this feat is if you can get your DM to approve it being equal to your prof bonus, rather than a flat 3 forever. It's a little worse until level 5, so its a bit of a risk if the campaign ends soon after that
I thinking using the Proficiency Bonus is an excellent way to alter this feat!
@@bluedragonguild oh yea, once that mechanic was introduced in one of the recent books of using your prof bonus as ability counter or value tracker I could tell immediately that some older feats and abilities would be really improved with it. Now if only they had that thought earlier lol
@@Finding_Arcadia I agree 100%!
I have homebrewed a few things with that mechanic update, like the Arcane Archer’s Arcane Shots!
@@bluedragonguild oooh yea, I could easily see that helping that ability a ton! 2 uses is absolutely criminal, almost as bad as purp dragon Knight's rallying cry
@Finding_Arcadia it is definitely a criminal act!! And oh the PDK…let’s not go there 😂😂😂
I agree that it trails off, but I still think it’s good to take.
Very true! The reduction of three could save your life!
In my games I rule full plate armor give a natural reduction of 5 hit points from weapon attacks that deal piercing slashing and bludgeoning damage. This also makes the strength base characters feel better compared to the over powered Dexterity base ones.
That sounds awesome! I imagine that defensive power does feel great!
There is another few ways you can look at this as well. HAM is obviously good at lower levels no doubt and yes while it loses its "punch" at the higher levels it still has its benefits. One thing is hordes of enemies always seem to occur no matter what level. Having -3 to each hit makes tanking that horde as you and your party shave them down. Magical weapons or attacks from creatures are probably for the most part rare even at higher levels, and typically when a monster scales in CR what usually scales for a lot of creatures is multiattack. So even if you get hit 3 times from a creatures multi attack you reduce 9 damage still pretty good thinking that 9 damage (essentially a free lvl 1/2 cure wounds spell or a health potion) may be exactly what keeps you character alive and fighting or even allow your healer or ally to focus on attacking instead of healing. Some have even meta brewed this to scale like your proficiency bonus which reduces the OPness early but makes it scale better as you level. At the end of the day i think this is just one of those feats that makes sense to just take early on 1 or 4th level. But i don't think you will regret taking the feat, as i would assume 9 out of 10 times its the very feat that keeps you alive to even get to those higher levels in the first place.
That is an excellent way of looking at it! Obviously when I sat down to do this video I was only considering it in one aspect.
Yeah and if an enemy does show up with a magic weapon to get around the feat, then you’re not too bad off when you now have a magic weapon after the combat.
That is very true!!
Yeah, I understand why this doesn’t “level up” with you, but man I wish it did!
Yes, in some cases leveling feats would be great!
like reducing damage equal to half your level of none magical damage
That’s def. a possible answer!
What is your Strength feat Alternative suggestion? Felt a bit let down by the video not to suggest something better.
That is quite fair and I apologize for letting you down!
I would take a look at the three feats introduced in Tasha’s: Piercer, Crusher, and Slasher. They offer a nice increase to Strength (or dex/con) as well as some good offensive abilities!
I’ve used this one before in a one shot. Wasn’t long enough to see how well it sustained.
Awesome! Hopefully it was helpful in that game!
I'm currently on lv4
I built my Goliath Fighter Psi Warrior to absorb damage with things using Stone’s Endurance add the
Heavy Armor Master feat and using Protective Field.
I'll multi-class into barbarian after lv5 for rage to add resistance.
Wow, that sounds very well thought out! A ton of damage nullification!
@@bluedragonguild Thank you I actually started with the heavy armor Masterfeat and built upon that idea finding ways to help its scale.
Yeah that is a pretty fun build idea!
I don’t know if it’s worth taking or not, but it seem okay enough!
Depending on the situation, absolutely!
For the heavy armor users not trying to get hit(pushing armor) is good. However, the higher your armor, (forge Cleric, armorer artificer), the less likely you will be hit, so -3 does less for Armor pushes. That said, almost all builds won't have over 18 Armor at the levels they say this is useful.
That is a great way to look at it! P
I just took it, I will let you know next session
Awesome! I hope you feel differently about it than I did. I’ve somewhat come around to it, but it’s still not my favorite feat.
@@bluedragonguild I’m taking it at lvl 4 and it upped my str from 17-18 so that’s giving me a better bonus. My character tends to get surrounded by lower lvl monsters, so hopefully the 3 points of DR will come in handy. That’s for the reply! Cool channel. You got a sub from me
@@Pip3603 it sounds like it was quite beneficial for you! I feel like that reduction will serve you well, especially if you’re often surrounded! Thank you for sub!!
I mean, I like to think about this feat in comparison to the tough feat. Tough gives you +2hp per your level, up to a maximum of +40 at level 20. To surpass it with the 40hp you get, you need to get hit 14 times with non-magical bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage specifically.
I really love the idea of this feat though. The one thing I think really isn't talked about is that you get the 3 damage reduction ON TOP of a +1 to Strength. That's just nice for rounding out characters if you've maxed con, wanna round out your Strength, and wanna be tankier. Plus, we just don't have a lot of good strength feats out there.
Say you want a strength feat instead of an ASI. Maybe strength is your only odd score, or you don't wanna put extra numbers in dump stats for character reasons. Your options are;
The ability to wear new armor, though you probably already have the armor you want.
Training in 4 martial weapons, though you probably already have the weapons you want.
Bonuses to bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage, as feats. They're fine, probably comparable to this feat in use.
There's a few race specific ones, but unless you're already the race that doesn't help a ton.
Tavern Brawler can also give a +1, though as fun as it is, it's more flavor than practicality.
Skill expert, if you really wanna?
That leaves the final option; if you're are at 19 Strength, and really don't need another +1 to other stats (looking at you, fighter), -3 to pretty common damage types is a fine bonus to have. Just wish it scaled better.
Smg065 thank you for this super detailed layout! I think at the time I made the video I just couldn’t wrap my head around all the numbers and other things to account for. I am working on a follow up video to this one. Corrupted SD cards are causing the process to take a bit longer than I’d like 😅
my third level orc fighter has str 17 dex 14 and con 16. He is a great weapon champion and weilds a magical great axe cursed of beserking. i like the feat as the + 1 str will make my str and EVEN 18. what other choice is there. The other choices will leave my main attribute at 17 or dump 2 into str and have 19 (same stats as 18)
Hey Tom, thanks for the comment!
I think if you are looking to get a bump to increase your Strength the Slasher feat from Tasha’s would serve you really well. Unless you are wanting that damage reduction, because that would also serve you well! I hope this helped, and feel free to ask any time!
More armor. More better!
Yeah!!
Maybe homebrew it to where it's dependent on your pro bonus
That is something I have considered trying!
@@bluedragonguild wanting to gift this as a reward for one of my players, maybe it could be dependent on their strength or con mod since I think it would be the adventurer shrugging off the damage
@@pokemonlemons I think that would be a great gift for your player! There are some awesome people who have commented a mathematical type break down of the feat as is, so def take a look at them!
I still think it is worth taking. 3 damage is 3 damage!
That is an excellent way to look at it!
I agree!
This orc loves this feat!
Wonderful!
Variant human fighter it is then! Hahaha
Sometimes...yeah!
Yes, its worth it. Sure later on it'll "fall off" but that's because damage is higher, but it'll still reduce damage where it can. Hopefully by the end of 2024, it reduces damage by PB, scaling throughout the campaign.
Really wish they did Medium Armor Master good, and there's nothing for Light Armor Master.
That is quite true. This is one of those videos where I have changed my mind on my original stance. So many great people have done the math side of things and directed my point of view to a different way.
I def agree on the medium and light armor master!!
I was wondering.... thanks for the answer. :-/
Of course! There are a few wonderful folks in the comment section who raised some good points about the feat as well!
But Tough will give you 12hp at level 6 and 18hp at level 9. That's 4 times and 6 times HAM!
Yes it will!!
This Feat is a little bit of a letdown, especially when compared to Moderate Armor Master. It's a half feat sure, but it's restricted to just boosting strength and there's better options.
Yeah, In some aspects of def is. I think as a dm I’d homebrew the player to boost strength or dex.
Depending on the game you’re playing in it may be more helpful (1-5) but in higher levels of play I feel it does fall off a bit. But several others have commented laying out some fun mathematics about the feat so def take a look at those!
I’ll just play mage! Problem solved!
That is definitely a valid solution! #MageArmor!
Your analysis is quite poor IMO. Monsters with magic weapons are rare, even at higher levels.
that is very true. Since making this video several wonderful people have been kind enough to give a good break down of the numbers of the feat as well as a few other things. I am definitely reevaluating my stance on it and am (slowly) working on an update to this video. Thanks for the comment!