I don't think that would be the case, at least as far as Total War goes, army logistics already have an effect in certain cases that you need to consider, the problem is that those aren't very engaging aspects, they're numbers on a counter at the bottom and there is no middle ground between the campaign map and the real time battle. The whole mechanic of waiting for the right time of day or weather you want could be replaced with posturing, scouting and foraging from a camp, and have the battles start naturally instead of at the press of a button.
As a Logistic Specialist myself I find the Ancient worlds methods so fascinating and true to form to what makes Logistics such a great profession even today. If Agriculture is the backbone of society, Logistics is its legs. *“The line between disorder and order lies in logistics…” - Sun Tzu*
So glad to hear that professionals such as yourselves enjoy hearing about how things were done in the past! Anything in particular strike you as you watch these episodes?
In the logistics field, the method in which you can procure goods and the dependence on what is geographically available in your area is really important. I started as a Logistics Specialist in the Navy, the idea of establishing points and communication with all other areas of the globe to procure supplies ranging from equipment, food, fuel follow very much the same as in Ancient times. Including but not limited to finding outside sources when economically feasible in order to acquire goods. In Supply no one day is really the same. You are always calculating the best effective routes and maintaining vast records and accounts for all personnel needs. It is a very well oiled machine. From that we can thank our ancient ancestors for the methods they put into place.
This is really interesting. As a civilian with no military experience, you often kind of just assume that generally war, especially in ancient times, was usually just a case of raising a bigger army than the other guys, with some help from clever use of terrain, formations and technology. It's really eye opening seeing how important stuff like this was and why it would be a limiting factor if it was done wrong.
it still is the probably most important task a general has to handle. Look at the defeats of the Wehrmacht and you will see, the reason they lost, was often their failing in supplying their armies and counter the operations of the allies which threatened their supply lines.
In Europe, armies on this scale are back by the early modern period. Those armies start to re-discover these sorts of principles. A field army that forages and requisitions is unable to cross its own path, for example. You can't eat from a land where you have already picked everything. The armies plan around resource areas. Like a zone of supply from a port or agricultural base from where it is possible to transport supplies. The manouver warfare of the time works around control of these things.
I'm loving how people are getting to appreciate all the often overlooked minutia of warfare. Much of what makes a great commander is a mastery of these basic principles. If this is the sort of thing that interests you I definitely recommend "In the Name of Rome" by Adrian Goldsworthy which discusses the command style of all of Rome's great generals.
We follow up on some specific questions you all had regarding what would happen when supply and logistical systems came under attack. Video time stamps: 0:57 - Comparing the supply levels of different army types 4:04 - Scenario of a Roman army consuming supplies in the wilderness 4:49 - Scenario of two armies facing off while both live off the land 7:49 - Scenario of armies facing off while only one has a supply line 8:24 - Discussion of threats to the strategic base 9:41 - Discussion of threats to the operational base 10:34 - Discussion of threats to the supply line
You should pin this to the top of the comments! Also, its fantastic to see how far this channel has come since Rome 2 release. Be proud, you've achieved much, and I eagerly look forward to seeing what else you can achieve.
Is there a other videos where you explain even more about these tactics before the "main" battle? Is the recon, spies, circling around, smaller skirmishes. etc. Fascinating stuff.
"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980 It's very true. The best army would be completely worthless without food, water, and supplies.
And a great reason why the US military is the most powerful in the world - superior logistics. We have an incredible ability to move people and material across the globe quickly and effectively.
Most games completely ignore supply for play-ability. Some include it but to such detail that it turns off most gamers. I wish there were games that found a middle ground and made supply very important, but very simple.
Hey man, this series fills me with the same wonder and awe, as when i was a boy, learning for the first time about the Romans. My friend, i thank you :) I want to hear all about the daily stuff. The things that impacted normal daily life. It is a huge untapped field here on youtube. Chears to you and this series, and i hope for many future series like it! Thanks again and have a great one, Jente
I haven’t even thought about the majority of these logistic obstacles in order to have a strong army. Thank you for the education! I look forward to the next video.
It would be nice to have a real time strategy game that acknowledges the logistic needs of your army without having you advance through centuries of history and building infrastructures in the middle of battle. You shouldn't have unarmed "villagers" foraging; instead you should acknowledge that a significant portion of your own forces must be used to maintain your supply route and forage / pillage / requisition the lumber, fodder and food it needs; with the entire game not being set over centuries of history, but rather one summer of campaign, where no additional troops are trained, no additional technologies discovered, no additional keeps built. Actually here's a couple of ideas coming to mind: - Unaligned non-combatants as a meaningful game resource: Your own forces' discipline and the length of occupation and interaction determines how much intel they give you or your enemies, and how much of their resources you can commission. - Unaligned brigands and deserters left over after a rout or march that could potentially be rallied or court martial'd. - A supply line reaching out of the game map as a critical source of supplies which may be interrupted by enemy forces or rebelling non-combatants. - The need to march columns of troops at a slow pace that depends on road infrastructure and to build camps that are more or less spread out depending on the amount of foraging required. - Troop morale that interacts with their discipline towards local non-combatants and effectiveness in combat, and is affected by various factors such as food, march length, religion, and leadership. - Progressive decay of your forces by desertion and sickness. - Balancing the needs to have all of your troops concentrated and ready for action simultaneously, or to separate your columns to accelerate their progression by lowering required foraging. - Low stakes raids and skirmishes on scouting and foraging forces. - Officers in your army having unique / randomized skills and perks: Sir A. is a galant commissar and if sent to requisition from non-combatant locals, the locals' hostility will be significantly lower. Viscount B. is a father to his men who will suffer less penalty from low morale, Lieutenant C. is a skilled hunter and a detachment under his leadership will scout 25% further. Warlord D. is a proper asshole and enemy morale takes double damage during skirmishes. Centurion E. is heroic and can rally men 25% as fast after a rout. - Battles turning into a rout long before the entire force is destroyed, causing large morale damage to the losing army, making a large portion of their forces desert, making the routed force vulnerable to defeat in details and paralyzing them until they become rallied in an unoccupied camp. Different strategies in battle having disproportionate impact on enemy morale and their chance of breaking into a rout: projectiles being very lethal but slow to cause the victims to give ground, whereas a single heavy cavalry charge might be enough for a detachment to rout.
Most games completely ignore supply for play-ability. Some include it but to such detail that it turns off most gamers. I wish there were games that found a middle ground and made supply very important, but very simple.
I can't speak to any RTS, but Mount and Blade definitely makes you acknowledge the importance of logistics, even if it's on a small scale. If you don't feed your party, your party collapses. So it's in your interest to routinely buy supplies or raid enemy villages. Wargame is another great example of a game where logistics are important. Again, not as in depth here as the game is not on the strategic level, but almost all of your units consumes fuel and ammunition, as such, you have to routinely keep them resupplied and maintained by either bringimg them back to your Forward Operating Base or using supply trucks and supply helicopters. Ideally, you use the supply vehicles as an intermediary to connect your frontline units with your Forward Operating Base. But here's the thing. All your units, including your supply units, are finite. Furthermore, your supply units, and your Forward Operating Base carry a finite amount of fuel, ammo, and spare parts. Thus, you have to be careful with who or what you choose to resupply. Your logistics becomes a part of your overall strategy to win the battle. And I have personally seen battles won and lost on bad logistics. I have seen games where one side absolutely dominates the battlefield. They launch a brilliant, combined air and ground assault, utterly overwhelming the other side through sheer speed and firepower and nearly winning the game. Only to lose because their tanks and helicopters ran out of fuel and ammo and are then left immobilized and vulnerable to the enemy counterattack. Hell, some of the biggest battles on the map are battles to secure better deployment zones that allow you to spawn supply vehicles closer to the frontline. In fact, logistics is a huge part of the game.
I never thought I'd get in to the minutia of topics like this which may seem boring at first glance. But thanks to you all for your support and probing questions we have been able to do so with great success
Another recommendation is Hunger and the Sword: Warfare and Food Supply in Roman Republican Wars (264-30 B. C.) by Paul Erdkamp. Unfortunately, it's gone up in price a bit, but it's also pretty thorough if a touch repetitive.
Invicta it’s such an undervalued component of war fare. I am glad you are here to help raise awareness to how often it is overlooked when observing history of war and tactics. While you’re here: Video was excellent quality as always, down to the time stamped description. We thank you for your work; your videos are educational and entertaining without sacrificing accuracy.
Thank you for uploading these videos man! No one worries about logistics, all they want is "battle after battle!" With no understanding of how those soldiers aren't starving. Or why you're massive army lost to a "inferior" force because they were well fed Vs starving legions. Keep these videos coming please !
As a kid, that was something I liked about "Lords of the Realm II". Armies had to be fed (really sucked when enemy armies came visiting) and you had to actually produce the weapon sets for the different soldier classes (or buy them at userous prices). And, army recruitment depleted your population. If you didn't pay attention to things, you could readily cripple yourself economically, or try and raise an army of just guys with wooden pitchforks since you didn't build any weapons for them.
Legions I believe at different times, and different legions at the same time used the 4 colours of the horse racing teams. (Hippodrome). White, red, blue and green. 2 colours in one fraction. Junior and senior teams. 2 in other. I forget which colours where aligned. And senior/junior. Emperor Justinian in the eastern empire had to send in the legions when both fractions united against him. Blue was the colour of the marine legions I believe.
This is so fascinating, I've never seen anyone else go into these details regarding logistics in ancient times and I've been curious for so long. Awesome video please make more similar ones
this was really nicely done, very informative and you are right, in school you barely look at this aspect of conflict. Logistics is often even more important than the army itself (or at least equally). Thank you for sharing your knowledge in very interesting and nicely way :)
This video reminded me of how to play the Roman side in the "Cantabrian Wars" scenario in AGEOD's Alea Jacta Est game. I never could win until I figured out how to supply my Legions as they entered Cantabrian and Asturian territory. You end up having to create Depot/Encampments and garrisoning them with Auxilia, as you progress deeper and deeper into their territory. Haven't completed my reading of Daniel Varga's "Roman Wars in Spain" book to verify what historically occurred, but the sources that Invicta mentions likely bears this out, too. Great video, Invicta, thanks!
This series is so damn good. I'm surprised we have not seen stuff like this before. Also, the production is very well done, great balance of information without boring the audience with petty details.
Your right on the money mate we still work like this today using 4 types of echelons A ,B ,F and FF in that order on the large scale . this also scales right down to the section level and believe it or not we can still have all the same problems that all the historical forces had even with our tech. love these video's and totaly agree with Pan Z keep giving us this great content :) hope you all have a great day and thanks again.
No need to thank me man :) I've been watching for a while just recently started commenting on youtube in general. Your vids on the Romans really helped me out in gaming (in total war and other tactical games), in general and in my history classes :D Keep up the good work!!!
Super super interesting. There are tons of channels that talk about battles, but less so the logistics, and I think the logistics are generally much more important!
Dude I just found ur channel, the way u present ur videos is quite insane. I insta subbed since I loved history but couldn’t find time to read about. Definitely on the top 5 of my fav channels. Good fucken job!!
I've watched a few of your videos in the past but these past three videos you've put out have been incredibly interesting to watch and have earned my sub.
I found you because of Lindybeige; one of your videos came up as recommended. I immediately subscribed and started going through your library. A week later, Metatron pimped your channel. Are you an actual historian, or just a skilled amateur? You're getting recognized by heavy hitters!
3:30 You're going too far. While Tribal armies are less used to campaigning in Winter, many of them are surely used to foraging in cold climates. The tribes of the Alps, for instance, are no doubt better at foraging for food than the Romans in icy climates. It's what you do as part of civilian life, frequently. Steppe tribes generally also lived in cold climates, so the same applies for them--but the lack of fodder for horses could be fatal, if it was truly icy.
He's absolutely not, without outside sources of logistics supporting an army of any size in winter in northern climates via foraging is just impossible. It doesn't matter if a single or handful of men could scrap by with local knowledge. Once you have several thousand men in a compact area the rules completely change, land has carrying capacity and in winter in northern latitudes it's nowhere near high enough to support an army on foraging. In point of fact even when dispersed at much lower concentrations in normal living conditions a population STILL couldn't support itself through winter in northern climates via foraging. If people failed to stockpile sufficiently during the warmer months they could easily starve to death in winter.
Such as... wait... let me guess: elephants? O.O Horses and dogs were actually much more common. Horses are very much dealt with when dealing with cavalry. So it will have to be dogs.
Man, I'm amazed by the level of research, dedication and overall level of genius you are for making such topics, something fascinating. If it wasn't for you, I'd roll my eyes if someone mentioned logistics xD But you are amazing, keep the great work!
All of the historic videos need to have a significant amount of time allotted by our "trusted" Historians detailing the logistics that supported the "Wat" effort including both sides.
Awesome video! I also love this factor of warfare and intricate details of such periods (even more recent ones too!) It was very detailed. However, I would have mentioned army sizes, wherein, the Parthians would strike in smaller numbers, while the barbarians would move in hoards. The Legion had a more methodic system, building roads, forts and so on (they indeed were excellent engineers) The Hellenistic armies on the other-hand were lesser engineers compared to the Romans while they have around the same more or less size. This is important as horse back based armies would be able to move to small towns, or quickly get to the places they need to go, while the Hellenistic force would not be able to do this. Also, one could easilly put some extra food and drink on your horse, particularly light horsemen. Any way, keep it up! Edit, I also wanted ti mention the effects of fighting on home turf, wherein the home player would have a supply advantage (nearer to cities maybe, or knowing better the more rich land and so on) Love the effort and detail too!!!
You are quickly becoming my favorite RUclips channel! Keep it up ! I came here for your battle videos but I really love the ones that you've been doing lately about logistics. When you are done with this series you should do a video about the Dacian wars because I think that they were very interesting but not very well known
One topic I'd like to see covered is the logistics for horses and other animals used in the campaigns. I think in at least one campaign the horses/mules were abandoned or eaten bc the cost benefit of having them had changed.
An excellent book on the topic is Donald W, Engels' book, "Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army." He lists how much food and water the average man and animal required per day, how much the typical pack animal can carry, and the upper limits as too how much food could be carried before the numbers of animals required reach ridiculous numbers. Large armies are extremely difficult to keep supplied, and they move slowly as well. The Huge army of Xerxes took 90 days to travel 360 miles, an average of only 4 miles per day. They passed through 5 supply bases. Once they were in Greece proper, their fleet was the primary source of supply. The delay at Thermopylae, although only a week, was a serious blow to the logistics of the huge Persian army.
Reading about roman army logistics was the thing that made me realise just how amazing ships are. The romans were not even able to think about campaigning in germany, until they were able to bring all their heavy supplies up the Rhine on ships. That blew my young mind, because I figured that the land route was so short. Why take it "all that way" in ships? Then you study what is involved when moving 1000 tons of freight. A few sailors, who do very little except tend sails, or a vast convoy of pack animals, every one consuming food and requiring attendance.
Hey, love you videos! Also, I was wondering if you could do a video on how effective ranged forces were at different points in history in different regions of the world. I feel like that would be super interesting because I don’t see a lot of information on it. Thanks!
mkl feels like a little bit too large of a topic, ranged forces were used at all over the world at all times. Kind of hard to boil down in a video or two.
Logistics of the first world war are also really interesting, especially for the German army in the first couple of years. Moving millions of men the way they did was an amazing feat.
A lot of the armies of the Great Powers are starting to learn this by then. They've seen how important rail systems have grown in previous wars, and railways are now part of national security.
Steppe armies would often have semi-permanent large production centers operating in close proximity to them but it wasn't always the case so I get the need of oversimplification, on the other hand though, those armies not "chained" to a produce center would be able to cover longer distances on similar amounts of supplies (not to mention spare horses being able to carry water for themselves and other horses and lots of food for the rider). So to get a good comparison the bar should be a lot higher or something because of the bonus efficiency
That's an interesting part of armies and manouver. Armies don't just walk into eachother, their different foragers, scouts and outriders will often hear rumours of the other or encounter eachother first. Simply locating the other army for a battle is a long task. In the early modern period, you can see entire detachments of cavalry or musketeers sent out to requisition supplies in case they run into enemies on similar missions. And to simultanously keep an eye out for the enemy, and question the locals on what they have seen. An army walking by, even "your" army, is an unpopular event for the peasantry who has to live with their presence.
This was both incredibly interesting and informative.
Feels a bit sad that this is so rarely portrayed in games or pop history
öl ölson cuz if it was the game would turn into a generalship simulator, which would be both hard and non-mainstream.
This is the feeling I would really want from an RTS!
I don't think that would be the case, at least as far as Total War goes, army logistics already have an effect in certain cases that you need to consider, the problem is that those aren't very engaging aspects, they're numbers on a counter at the bottom and there is no middle ground between the campaign map and the real time battle.
The whole mechanic of waiting for the right time of day or weather you want could be replaced with posturing, scouting and foraging from a camp, and have the battles start naturally instead of at the press of a button.
Hearts of iron or knights and merchants do this
+Louis Desaix You must be an armchair general yourself, if you are annoyed by them.
As a Logistic Specialist myself I find the Ancient worlds methods so fascinating and true to form to what makes Logistics such a great profession even today. If Agriculture is the backbone of society, Logistics is its legs.
*“The line between disorder and order lies in logistics…” - Sun Tzu*
So glad to hear that professionals such as yourselves enjoy hearing about how things were done in the past! Anything in particular strike you as you watch these episodes?
In the logistics field, the method in which you can procure goods and the dependence on what is geographically available in your area is really important. I started as a Logistics Specialist in the Navy, the idea of establishing points and communication with all other areas of the globe to procure supplies ranging from equipment, food, fuel follow very much the same as in Ancient times. Including but not limited to finding outside sources when economically feasible in order to acquire goods. In Supply no one day is really the same. You are always calculating the best effective routes and maintaining vast records and accounts for all personnel needs. It is a very well oiled machine. From that we can thank our ancient ancestors for the methods they put into place.
This is really interesting. As a civilian with no military experience, you often kind of just assume that generally war, especially in ancient times, was usually just a case of raising a bigger army than the other guys, with some help from clever use of terrain, formations and technology. It's really eye opening seeing how important stuff like this was and why it would be a limiting factor if it was done wrong.
it still is the probably most important task a general has to handle. Look at the defeats of the Wehrmacht and you will see, the reason they lost, was often their failing in supplying their armies and counter the operations of the allies which threatened their supply lines.
As the old saying goes- “Amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics”
Also, "an army marches on its stomach." Don't have a way to feed those soldiers, and they will stop marching for you.
In Europe, armies on this scale are back by the early modern period. Those armies start to re-discover these sorts of principles. A field army that forages and requisitions is unable to cross its own path, for example. You can't eat from a land where you have already picked everything.
The armies plan around resource areas. Like a zone of supply from a port or agricultural base from where it is possible to transport supplies. The manouver warfare of the time works around control of these things.
Love these. Really helps us understands the circumstances and problems in campaigns.
I'm loving how people are getting to appreciate all the often overlooked minutia of warfare. Much of what makes a great commander is a mastery of these basic principles. If this is the sort of thing that interests you I definitely recommend "In the Name of Rome" by Adrian Goldsworthy which discusses the command style of all of Rome's great generals.
Noted. Thank you.
Stay with meeeeeeeee
The amount of effort in these videos tho.
We follow up on some specific questions you all had regarding what would happen when supply and logistical systems came under attack. Video time stamps:
0:57 - Comparing the supply levels of different army types
4:04 - Scenario of a Roman army consuming supplies in the wilderness
4:49 - Scenario of two armies facing off while both live off the land
7:49 - Scenario of armies facing off while only one has a supply line
8:24 - Discussion of threats to the strategic base
9:41 - Discussion of threats to the operational base
10:34 - Discussion of threats to the supply line
Invicta where is part 4?????????
You should pin this to the top of the comments! Also, its fantastic to see how far this channel has come since Rome 2 release. Be proud, you've achieved much, and I eagerly look forward to seeing what else you can achieve.
Is there a other videos where you explain even more about these tactics before the "main" battle? Is the recon, spies, circling around, smaller skirmishes. etc. Fascinating stuff.
"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980
It's very true. The best army would be completely worthless without food, water, and supplies.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Terminators: Just supplies
And an army that doesnt need food, water, sleep, and doesnt get tired is of a monsters
And a great reason why the US military is the most powerful in the world - superior logistics. We have an incredible ability to move people and material across the globe quickly and effectively.
I want this to be a video game. "Roman Army Supply Management Sim 2018"
I wish Civ VI had it
Nikola Gjorgjievski it will make the game worst , it is already very slow and boring no need of more micromangement
Jag Delfin me too
Jag Delfin 100% would play. Let me build forts in Gaul and send foraging parties out whilst trying to locate the enemy.
Most games completely ignore supply for play-ability. Some include it but to such detail that it turns off most gamers. I wish there were games that found a middle ground and made supply very important, but very simple.
Hey man, this series fills me with the same wonder and awe, as when i was a boy, learning for the first time about the Romans.
My friend, i thank you :)
I want to hear all about the daily stuff. The things that impacted normal daily life. It is a huge untapped field here on youtube.
Chears to you and this series, and i hope for many future series like it!
Thanks again and have a great one, Jente
I haven’t even thought about the majority of these logistic obstacles in order to have a strong army. Thank you for the education! I look forward to the next video.
Invicta is truly a great channel. And this video in my opinion is the best video.
It would be nice to have a real time strategy game that acknowledges the logistic needs of your army without having you advance through centuries of history and building infrastructures in the middle of battle. You shouldn't have unarmed "villagers" foraging; instead you should acknowledge that a significant portion of your own forces must be used to maintain your supply route and forage / pillage / requisition the lumber, fodder and food it needs; with the entire game not being set over centuries of history, but rather one summer of campaign, where no additional troops are trained, no additional technologies discovered, no additional keeps built.
Actually here's a couple of ideas coming to mind:
- Unaligned non-combatants as a meaningful game resource: Your own forces' discipline and the length of occupation and interaction determines how much intel they give you or your enemies, and how much of their resources you can commission.
- Unaligned brigands and deserters left over after a rout or march that could potentially be rallied or court martial'd.
- A supply line reaching out of the game map as a critical source of supplies which may be interrupted by enemy forces or rebelling non-combatants.
- The need to march columns of troops at a slow pace that depends on road infrastructure and to build camps that are more or less spread out depending on the amount of foraging required.
- Troop morale that interacts with their discipline towards local non-combatants and effectiveness in combat, and is affected by various factors such as food, march length, religion, and leadership.
- Progressive decay of your forces by desertion and sickness.
- Balancing the needs to have all of your troops concentrated and ready for action simultaneously, or to separate your columns to accelerate their progression by lowering required foraging.
- Low stakes raids and skirmishes on scouting and foraging forces.
- Officers in your army having unique / randomized skills and perks: Sir A. is a galant commissar and if sent to requisition from non-combatant locals, the locals' hostility will be significantly lower. Viscount B. is a father to his men who will suffer less penalty from low morale, Lieutenant C. is a skilled hunter and a detachment under his leadership will scout 25% further. Warlord D. is a proper asshole and enemy morale takes double damage during skirmishes. Centurion E. is heroic and can rally men 25% as fast after a rout.
- Battles turning into a rout long before the entire force is destroyed, causing large morale damage to the losing army, making a large portion of their forces desert, making the routed force vulnerable to defeat in details and paralyzing them until they become rallied in an unoccupied camp.
Different strategies in battle having disproportionate impact on enemy morale and their chance of breaking into a rout: projectiles being very lethal but slow to cause the victims to give ground, whereas a single heavy cavalry charge might be enough for a detachment to rout.
GregTom2 rogan
I'm not familiar with it; is "Rogan" the name of a game?
GregTom2 wololo
Most games completely ignore supply for play-ability. Some include it but to such detail that it turns off most gamers. I wish there were games that found a middle ground and made supply very important, but very simple.
I can't speak to any RTS, but Mount and Blade definitely makes you acknowledge the importance of logistics, even if it's on a small scale. If you don't feed your party, your party collapses. So it's in your interest to routinely buy supplies or raid enemy villages.
Wargame is another great example of a game where logistics are important. Again, not as in depth here as the game is not on the strategic level, but almost all of your units consumes fuel and ammunition, as such, you have to routinely keep them resupplied and maintained by either bringimg them back to your Forward Operating Base or using supply trucks and supply helicopters.
Ideally, you use the supply vehicles as an intermediary to connect your frontline units with your Forward Operating Base. But here's the thing. All your units, including your supply units, are finite. Furthermore, your supply units, and your Forward Operating Base carry a finite amount of fuel, ammo, and spare parts. Thus, you have to be careful with who or what you choose to resupply. Your logistics becomes a part of your overall strategy to win the battle.
And I have personally seen battles won and lost on bad logistics. I have seen games where one side absolutely dominates the battlefield. They launch a brilliant, combined air and ground assault, utterly overwhelming the other side through sheer speed and firepower and nearly winning the game. Only to lose because their tanks and helicopters ran out of fuel and ammo and are then left immobilized and vulnerable to the enemy counterattack.
Hell, some of the biggest battles on the map are battles to secure better deployment zones that allow you to spawn supply vehicles closer to the frontline. In fact, logistics is a huge part of the game.
Y’all are asking for Jerusalem part 4 and here I am still waiting for Evolution of the Roman Legions part 2
Jerusalem part 4 has started up again slowly
Constantine XI same fren, iktf
I loved the series Rome because they actually showed this where as no other movies or depictions really have
Thank god Invicta has returned to these kind of short documentaries concerning the Romans. Thank you humbly
Some of the most important parts of the roman war machine and insanely underrated when talking about war...totally awesome vid thank you!
For some reason this is exciting
I never thought I'd get in to the minutia of topics like this which may seem boring at first glance. But thanks to you all for your support and probing questions we have been able to do so with great success
In many ancient wars, they did grind to a halt for winter. Good point that a proper supply line would be an advantage.
Another recommendation is Hunger and the Sword: Warfare and Food Supply in Roman Republican Wars (264-30 B. C.) by Paul Erdkamp. Unfortunately, it's gone up in price a bit, but it's also pretty thorough if a touch repetitive.
I came here just to see Robbie McSweeney's artwork. I'm so glad I did it, your channel has a lot to offer !
A roman walks into a bar, holds up two fingers, and says "I'll take five beers please"
omg i cant believe i laught to this :D
daniel halachev V is the Roman numeral for 5
And that beer was brought to him through a complex logistical system
Beer was sawn as feminine, weak and barbaric by the Romans. Wine is the proper drink of a civilised man.
Software Man lame
This so cool. It is fascinating that even these factors can turn tables in a battlefield.
I guess you could say they turn the... _dinner_ tables?
We need more logistical videos. Its interesting to see how modern rely on the logistic trains more than how we used to.
So the guys who quote from last videos seem legit
“Amateur do strategy, professionals do logistics”
Survivors do both.
Eric Johnson sound like every college student mate
^ Underrated comment lol.
But I'm an amateur who loves logistics!
Another phenomenal video Invicta! These have all been excellent. I love how you have kept this series going! Keep up the good work!
I love these logistics videos, great work!
hooray! So glad to hear you guys love the topic as much as me!
Invicta it’s such an undervalued component of war fare. I am glad you are here to help raise awareness to how often it is overlooked when observing history of war and tactics. While you’re here: Video was excellent quality as always, down to the time stamped description. We thank you for your work; your videos are educational and entertaining without sacrificing accuracy.
Thank you for uploading these videos man! No one worries about logistics, all they want is "battle after battle!" With no understanding of how those soldiers aren't starving. Or why you're massive army lost to a "inferior" force because they were well fed Vs starving legions. Keep these videos coming please !
Thanks for appreciating this look at the minutia of combat that really matters as much if not more than the battlefield tactics most people focus on
As a kid, that was something I liked about "Lords of the Realm II". Armies had to be fed (really sucked when enemy armies came visiting) and you had to actually produce the weapon sets for the different soldier classes (or buy them at userous prices). And, army recruitment depleted your population. If you didn't pay attention to things, you could readily cripple yourself economically, or try and raise an army of just guys with wooden pitchforks since you didn't build any weapons for them.
I just saw a video about drones refueling fighters on air, haha, in warfare some things never changes.
its pretty interesting how a lot of principles do in fact stay the same
" An army moves on its belly!" My dad used to say. This is quite interesting. thanks Invicta!
Your dad was quoting Napoleon. Usually translated as "An army marches on it's stomach"
Romans in blue make me feel so uncomfortable
Green is Brutii! Rome total war 1 ftw!
Rtw1 maybe the best game ever made
Never liked the Julii. I always fancied the Brutii
The marines used blue.
Legions I believe at different times, and different legions at the same time used the 4 colours of the horse racing teams. (Hippodrome). White, red, blue and green. 2 colours in one fraction. Junior and senior teams. 2 in other. I forget which colours where aligned. And senior/junior. Emperor Justinian in the eastern empire had to send in the legions when both fractions united against him.
Blue was the colour of the marine legions I believe.
Excellent subject. It’s amazing the sophistication not only in battle, but everything that goes into it from the moment you left home soil.
This is so fascinating, I've never seen anyone else go into these details regarding logistics in ancient times and I've been curious for so long. Awesome video please make more similar ones
Man, I've never realized how interesting logistics actually is! Great video
glad to hear a lot of people are expressing similar excitement
this was really nicely done, very informative and you are right, in school you barely look at this aspect of conflict. Logistics is often even more important than the army itself (or at least equally). Thank you for sharing your knowledge in very interesting and nicely way :)
It's great that you make videos such as these. Not many people see or appreciate what is going behind the great battles, that they know so well.
This video reminded me of how to play the Roman side in the "Cantabrian Wars" scenario in AGEOD's Alea Jacta Est game. I never could win until I figured out how to supply my Legions as they entered Cantabrian and Asturian territory. You end up having to create Depot/Encampments and garrisoning them with Auxilia, as you progress deeper and deeper into their territory. Haven't completed my reading of Daniel Varga's "Roman Wars in Spain" book to verify what historically occurred, but the sources that Invicta mentions likely bears this out, too.
Great video, Invicta, thanks!
This series is so damn good. I'm surprised we have not seen stuff like this before. Also, the production is very well done, great balance of information without boring the audience with petty details.
Men win battles, Logistics win wars
Stephen Richards Hookers win wars
Women win arguments.
@@AdmiralBonetoPick Only because modern men allow them to win.
@@kaydens6964 true
You don’t often hear of this part of war and is extremely fascinating. The video is so well done and engaging too!
Your right on the money mate we still work like this today using 4 types of echelons A ,B ,F and FF in that order on the large scale . this also scales right down to the section level and believe it or not we can still have all the same problems that all the historical forces had even with our tech. love these video's and totaly agree with Pan Z keep giving us this great content :) hope you all have a great day and thanks again.
I could watch / listen to you all day long 😍 and I'm not just saying that!
Love you man, keep up the awesome material! - your biggest fan in Syria
Fantastic video on another obscure but interesting topic. Keep it up!
What a great and educative video! Props on the research man.
thanks : )
No need to thank me man :) I've been watching for a while just recently started commenting on youtube in general. Your vids on the Romans really helped me out in gaming (in total war and other tactical games), in general and in my history classes :D Keep up the good work!!!
I do enjoy looking into logistics, and am currently on a bit of a Roman kick, so these videos have been great.
Super super interesting. There are tons of channels that talk about battles, but less so the logistics, and I think the logistics are generally much more important!
Best series of vids I've seen in a while talking about more than just a battle! Outstanding!
Dude I just found ur channel, the way u present ur videos is quite insane. I insta subbed since I loved history but couldn’t find time to read about. Definitely on the top 5 of my fav channels. Good fucken job!!
I've watched a few of your videos in the past but these past three videos you've put out have been incredibly interesting to watch and have earned my sub.
I found you because of Lindybeige; one of your videos came up as recommended. I immediately subscribed and started going through your library. A week later, Metatron pimped your channel. Are you an actual historian, or just a skilled amateur? You're getting recognized by heavy hitters!
Bryan Schmidt glad you were able to find your way over. I'm just a fan of history and have a main job as an engineer in the renewable energy sector.
Very concrete info, with context and dedicated pictures too! Thank you
Another thanks for sharing the main subpoints in a comment!
my compliments to you on how informative this video was.
3:30 You're going too far. While Tribal armies are less used to campaigning in Winter, many of them are surely used to foraging in cold climates. The tribes of the Alps, for instance, are no doubt better at foraging for food than the Romans in icy climates. It's what you do as part of civilian life, frequently. Steppe tribes generally also lived in cold climates, so the same applies for them--but the lack of fodder for horses could be fatal, if it was truly icy.
4:40 You forgot to mention splitting an army. Many armies had to split their forces, just so they could get enough forage to survive. Good video!
He's absolutely not, without outside sources of logistics supporting an army of any size in winter in northern climates via foraging is just impossible. It doesn't matter if a single or handful of men could scrap by with local knowledge. Once you have several thousand men in a compact area the rules completely change, land has carrying capacity and in winter in northern latitudes it's nowhere near high enough to support an army on foraging.
In point of fact even when dispersed at much lower concentrations in normal living conditions a population STILL couldn't support itself through winter in northern climates via foraging. If people failed to stockpile sufficiently during the warmer months they could easily starve to death in winter.
Exciting topic & very well narrated !!! Thumbs up
Can you make a video about animal used in war of antiquity
Yes ! especially mastiff's / War Dog's
like how they were raised and trained?
Invicta yes pls
Such as... wait... let me guess: elephants? O.O
Horses and dogs were actually much more common. Horses are very much dealt with when dealing with cavalry. So it will have to be dogs.
PS- I think there's one case in African history in which they tried to use cows as mounts for ad-hoc cavalry. That's an original one.
Man, I'm amazed by the level of research, dedication and overall level of genius you are for making such topics, something fascinating.
If it wasn't for you, I'd roll my eyes if someone mentioned logistics xD
But you are amazing, keep the great work!
I have truly come to love everything you post. Never quit.
All of the historic videos need to have a significant amount of time allotted by our "trusted" Historians detailing the logistics that supported the "Wat" effort including both sides.
Awesome video! I also love this factor of warfare and intricate details of such periods (even more recent ones too!) It was very detailed. However, I would have mentioned army sizes, wherein, the Parthians would strike in smaller numbers, while the barbarians would move in hoards. The Legion had a more methodic system, building roads, forts and so on (they indeed were excellent engineers) The Hellenistic armies on the other-hand were lesser engineers compared to the Romans while they have around the same more or less size. This is important as horse back based armies would be able to move to small towns, or quickly get to the places they need to go, while the Hellenistic force would not be able to do this. Also, one could easilly put some extra food and drink on your horse, particularly light horsemen. Any way, keep it up!
Edit, I also wanted ti mention the effects of fighting on home turf, wherein the home player would have a supply advantage (nearer to cities maybe, or knowing better the more rich land and so on)
Love the effort and detail too!!!
Thank you. Please keep making more videos!
Julien, this video is very well done. You got presentation and insight, great history coverage. Thank you! Keep up the good work.
You are quickly becoming my favorite RUclips channel! Keep it up !
I came here for your battle videos but I really love the ones that you've been doing lately about logistics.
When you are done with this series you should do a video about the Dacian wars because I think that they were very interesting but not very well known
Loving these videos man. Could u do a video on currencies used by Romans, Carthaginians and Greeks, would love to see that.
One topic I'd like to see covered is the logistics for horses and other animals used in the campaigns. I think in at least one campaign the horses/mules were abandoned or eaten bc the cost benefit of having them had changed.
An excellent book on the topic is Donald W, Engels' book, "Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army." He lists how much food and water the average man and animal required per day, how much the typical pack animal can carry, and the upper limits as too how much food could be carried before the numbers of animals required reach ridiculous numbers. Large armies are extremely difficult to keep supplied, and they move slowly as well. The Huge army of Xerxes took 90 days to travel 360 miles, an average of only 4 miles per day. They passed through 5 supply bases. Once they were in Greece proper, their fleet was the primary source of supply. The delay at Thermopylae, although only a week, was a serious blow to the logistics of the huge Persian army.
Quality video and an interesting topic!
This could have been such a great management addition to the Rome: Total war games
11:00 "Nice supply depot you have there. It would be a shame if anything happened to it..."
This has been such a good series! You do a fantastic job.
I would love to see more videos about war logistics!
It's a crucial and fascinating topic.
I'm loving this particular series extremely well done sir
Reading about roman army logistics was the thing that made me realise just how amazing ships are. The romans were not even able to think about campaigning in germany, until they were able to bring all their heavy supplies up the Rhine on ships. That blew my young mind, because I figured that the land route was so short. Why take it "all that way" in ships? Then you study what is involved when moving 1000 tons of freight. A few sailors, who do very little except tend sails, or a vast convoy of pack animals, every one consuming food and requiring attendance.
You must’ve been gaining a lot of knowledge through this channel, you know what else you gained?
Our hearts
Hey, love you videos! Also, I was wondering if you could do a video on how effective ranged forces were at different points in history in different regions of the world. I feel like that would be super interesting because I don’t see a lot of information on it. Thanks!
mkl feels like a little bit too large of a topic, ranged forces were used at all over the world at all times. Kind of hard to boil down in a video or two.
Logistics of the first world war are also really interesting, especially for the German army in the first couple of years. Moving millions of men the way they did was an amazing feat.
A lot of the armies of the Great Powers are starting to learn this by then. They've seen how important rail systems have grown in previous wars, and railways are now part of national security.
Ok, I'm subscribing. Please continue this incredible work.
thanks for taking the time to show your support : )
Invicta Thanks for taking the time to thank me for taking the time.
Another excellent video, thanks!
Thank you so much for your work. We love your content. Greetings from Germany
Great vid man. i enjoy learning about ancient logistics.
Very interesting. And well done video.
Steppe armies would often have semi-permanent large production centers operating in close proximity to them but it wasn't always the case so I get the need of oversimplification, on the other hand though, those armies not "chained" to a produce center would be able to cover longer distances on similar amounts of supplies (not to mention spare horses being able to carry water for themselves and other horses and lots of food for the rider). So to get a good comparison the bar should be a lot higher or something because of the bonus efficiency
The logistics of warfare have always been fascination to me, I'm glad others see that as well
Realy enjoyable and informative about ancient warfare
Very interesting to watch how important it was commanders to protect supply lines and not just prepare battle lines. Great video!
Great episode, lookin forward to the next one!
I always love learning about logistics but I can't find sources on them this really helps. Thanks!
awesome, I've listed my own sources in the description which you could look up as well
this is really cool angle. I think this is more interesting than the super stars and emporers, much more human and grounded subject.
That's an interesting part of armies and manouver. Armies don't just walk into eachother, their different foragers, scouts and outriders will often hear rumours of the other or encounter eachother first. Simply locating the other army for a battle is a long task.
In the early modern period, you can see entire detachments of cavalry or musketeers sent out to requisition supplies in case they run into enemies on similar missions. And to simultanously keep an eye out for the enemy, and question the locals on what they have seen. An army walking by, even "your" army, is an unpopular event for the peasantry who has to live with their presence.
An army is a village, town, city-even a nation-on the move, and should be thought of accordingly.
I really enjoy these videos on supplies and logistics. This kind of thing doesn't get nearly enough attention. Can you do a video on scouting next?
Keep it coming wish they would make a good movie or series about rome
More of these please!
Jerusalem part 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matt I totally agree!!!
Matt wait a year or so
Thanks for sharing, very insightful and informative...
Very informative. Thank you
Really well done, much appreciated.
Thanks for answering my question from the last video hahaha
Great stuff dude! Keep it up 👏🏼👏🏼
Cant wait to see more on this topic!
Its strange how things like "Roman supply lines" can be so interesting. Great video.
I really like this series!