The thing with EV cars is that in the time they've been available and I've been in the market for a second hand car I've never seen one in a second hand car dealership. Possibly at a main dealer but I stay away from them.
Used dealers are definitely wary of them at the moment. This is mainly due to wavering demand for all EVs and poor demand for used ones as there are concerns about the remaining battery health.
I agree that legacy brands are fed up with EVs, but I'm fairly certain most will still exist in 5 years due to not everyone wanting a Tesla and the problems with Chinese EV adoption that tariffs in the EU and US are going to cause.
@classiccarconversationsto be honest, it doesn’t really matter whether the west adopts EV or not. China is the biggest car market with 1/3 of all cars sold there. EV penetration is now over 50% of all new car sales. The legacy automakers have made huge profits there for the last 20 years, now they have lost 15-16% of their sales and they are going down because their EV offerings are rubbish compared to Tesla or China.
I think it does matter in the west from both a climate perspective and because of the stringent mandates. I don't think sales in China are struggling due to legacy manufacturers' EVs being bad, but because Chinese luxury buyers don't want EVs, which is predominantly what foreign manufacturers mainly sell. Domestic producers will always be cheaper in China.
I stop at minute 2:00. Can you, or someone from the classical manufacturers, explain why thay cannot produce cheaper? Because they want big profits? Because they are greedy? Why can Tesla (let's put away the boogie man China). produce cheap? Why does BMW have to ask you a tariff for auto pilot or for seat heating? They are doing expensive cars, bad EVs, poor batteries and ranges and do not want to evolve. They have to suffer the consequences. Otherwise there will be no free market and competition. VW had 60% of Chinese market. Now they have, maybe, 10-12%. They did not saw this coming? Then it is a company poorly managed. Any VW employee in Germany has a salary of over 6000 eur per month? Is that normal? Maybe. For them, but they will not be competitive with hundred thousands employees with huge salaries and still producing monsters like Touareg with 3-4L diesel engines. That should end.
Many are selling EVs at significantly reduced profits (even at losses sometimes) just to sell them and avoid the heavy fines in the mandates. Tesla sells a lot more electric vehicles than traditional manufacturers, so can benefit from a lower average cost due to this. What you're suggesting would likely cause the market to crash, which is desirable for nobody.
@classiccarconversations Do you have any data? Who is selling at losses? Why? Do you find it normal to sell a BMW X3, not even full option, with 85.000 Eur? Just think of a i4 vs serie 4. I think combustion engine is more expensive. But why? Because they have huge costs. Because they do not want to change. Change means new costs. They lost 10 years compared with Tesla and China. It is a lot. Why do Tesla sell much more? Because they build pretty good packages of EVs.
I don't know off the top of my head who is selling at losses, but I read today that the core VW Group sells EVs at just a 2.3% profit margin, which is insanely low. New cars are getting ridiculously expensive but that is the way it is.
Ford loses around $50,000 reportedly on every electric vehicle it sells. Tesla can sell for less because it makes only EVs, so there are fewer platforms and battery tech needed for development as it can be shared. If major companies were selling electric cars on a similar scale, I have little doubt it would be at similar prices.
Trash cars. I really want to see what's going on 5 years from now on. Haha, it's going to be a comedy on service matter. They are not bad, not trash, but expensive and they provide nothing reliable. Tell me of any EV produced that lasts more than 10 years. This comment will age like wine.
While I'm not a fan of EVs by any means, I think this comment is a bit harsh. EVs can often be more reliable than combustion cars due to fewer moving parts being involved and need to be serviced less regularly. Electric vehicles from over a decade ago are still on the roads in small quantities, albeit with poor ranges due to low battery health, but this should improve over time. There are also some really good manufacturer warranties for electric cars, including the battery, for extra peace of mind.
It's funny how wrong you are. Have a look at the actual sales numbers year over year. IC cars are loosing and EV's are slowly but steadily taking over the market. The fact that the legacy manufacturers resist change and have consistently failed to invest in technology is entirely their own fault.
I mean this is only partly true, manufacturers are mandated to have EVs be 225 of their sales. Many are withholding the sale of ICEs due to the massive fine they will get. If you look at annual EV sales they are struggling to keep up with this, they are actually under target for 2024.
In September (I think), more diesel vehicles were bought by private buyers than electric vehicles, which, considering diesels are significantly less popular now than petrol cars says a lot about the demand for electric alternatives. EVs are becoming more popular but there are major problems that are leading to manufacturers beginning to lose patience with them.
Cheaper and better from lower cost imports
They WANT to be done.... but... they are bound by EU legislation and severe penalties for not following 'orders'
The thing with EV cars is that in the time they've been available and I've been in the market for a second hand car I've never seen one in a second hand car dealership. Possibly at a main dealer but I stay away from them.
Used dealers are definitely wary of them at the moment. This is mainly due to wavering demand for all EVs and poor demand for used ones as there are concerns about the remaining battery health.
Legacy car makers are done with EV’s. Legacy automakers will be gone in 5 years and all that will be an available will be Tesla and China…
Wrong!Tesla is fucked!
I agree that legacy brands are fed up with EVs, but I'm fairly certain most will still exist in 5 years due to not everyone wanting a Tesla and the problems with Chinese EV adoption that tariffs in the EU and US are going to cause.
@classiccarconversationsto be honest, it doesn’t really matter whether the west adopts EV or not. China is the biggest car market with 1/3 of all cars sold there. EV penetration is now over 50% of all new car sales. The legacy automakers have made huge profits there for the last 20 years, now they have lost 15-16% of their sales and they are going down because their EV offerings are rubbish compared to Tesla or China.
I think it does matter in the west from both a climate perspective and because of the stringent mandates. I don't think sales in China are struggling due to legacy manufacturers' EVs being bad, but because Chinese luxury buyers don't want EVs, which is predominantly what foreign manufacturers mainly sell. Domestic producers will always be cheaper in China.
I stop at minute 2:00. Can you, or someone from the classical manufacturers, explain why thay cannot produce cheaper? Because they want big profits? Because they are greedy? Why can Tesla (let's put away the boogie man China). produce cheap? Why does BMW have to ask you a tariff for auto pilot or for seat heating? They are doing expensive cars, bad EVs, poor batteries and ranges and do not want to evolve. They have to suffer the consequences. Otherwise there will be no free market and competition. VW had 60% of Chinese market. Now they have, maybe, 10-12%. They did not saw this coming? Then it is a company poorly managed. Any VW employee in Germany has a salary of over 6000 eur per month? Is that normal? Maybe. For them, but they will not be competitive with hundred thousands employees with huge salaries and still producing monsters like Touareg with 3-4L diesel engines. That should end.
Many are selling EVs at significantly reduced profits (even at losses sometimes) just to sell them and avoid the heavy fines in the mandates. Tesla sells a lot more electric vehicles than traditional manufacturers, so can benefit from a lower average cost due to this. What you're suggesting would likely cause the market to crash, which is desirable for nobody.
@classiccarconversations Do you have any data? Who is selling at losses? Why? Do you find it normal to sell a BMW X3, not even full option, with 85.000 Eur?
Just think of a i4 vs serie 4. I think combustion engine is more expensive. But why? Because they have huge costs. Because they do not want to change. Change means new costs. They lost 10 years compared with Tesla and China. It is a lot.
Why do Tesla sell much more? Because they build pretty good packages of EVs.
I don't know off the top of my head who is selling at losses, but I read today that the core VW Group sells EVs at just a 2.3% profit margin, which is insanely low. New cars are getting ridiculously expensive but that is the way it is.
Ford loses around $50,000 reportedly on every electric vehicle it sells. Tesla can sell for less because it makes only EVs, so there are fewer platforms and battery tech needed for development as it can be shared. If major companies were selling electric cars on a similar scale, I have little doubt it would be at similar prices.
@classiccarconversations I also have seriously doubts that for a 40-50k electric car they have a loss of another 50k. Can t be 100k.
Trash cars. I really want to see what's going on 5 years from now on. Haha, it's going to be a comedy on service matter. They are not bad, not trash, but expensive and they provide nothing reliable. Tell me of any EV produced that lasts more than 10 years. This comment will age like wine.
While I'm not a fan of EVs by any means, I think this comment is a bit harsh. EVs can often be more reliable than combustion cars due to fewer moving parts being involved and need to be serviced less regularly. Electric vehicles from over a decade ago are still on the roads in small quantities, albeit with poor ranges due to low battery health, but this should improve over time. There are also some really good manufacturer warranties for electric cars, including the battery, for extra peace of mind.
It's funny how wrong you are.
Have a look at the actual sales numbers year over year.
IC cars are loosing and EV's are slowly but steadily taking over the market.
The fact that the legacy manufacturers resist change and have consistently failed to invest in technology is entirely their own fault.
Yo kid, buy a car first, drive it in the winter and then comment
I mean this is only partly true, manufacturers are mandated to have EVs be 225 of their sales. Many are withholding the sale of ICEs due to the massive fine they will get. If you look at annual EV sales they are struggling to keep up with this, they are actually under target for 2024.
In September (I think), more diesel vehicles were bought by private buyers than electric vehicles, which, considering diesels are significantly less popular now than petrol cars says a lot about the demand for electric alternatives. EVs are becoming more popular but there are major problems that are leading to manufacturers beginning to lose patience with them.