What are Cab Cars?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- This video goes into more depth on a subject we briefly discussed in our recent "Amtrak City of New Orleans" video. Today, we talk about the cab car, control car, or driving trailer, whichever term you prefer. Find out what their purpose is, and how they work, as well as some interesting examples from around the world!
Some of the footage in this video was generously provided to me by @NonstopEurotrip . Check out his awesome channel here: / nonstopeurotrip
Trains Are Awesome!
Support us on Patreon: / trainsareawesome
Our Instagram: / tra_channel
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:56 Confusion in the Comments
2:23 A Truly International Subject
2:41 Train sets versus Locomotive-Hauled Trains
4:00 The Problem of Turning Around
4:14 Possible Solutions
4:42 Introducing Cab Cars!
5:18 Benefits of Cab Cars
5:31 The Railjet in Austria
6:08 Cab Cars in the US
6:42 How do they work?
7:25 Compatibility is Key
8:07 Notable Examples: NS DDAR
8:38 Notable Examples: DB ICE 2
8:50 Notable Examples: Amtrak NPCU
9:28 Conclusion 
Авто/Мото
Seeing so many comments sections during my time on this platform, I assure you...yes, many don't watch the videos before they comment. If people actually thought for a change and do simple common sense things like watch before commenting, we wouldn't have so much political drama. I've had people try to correct me with things that I've already said and I'm like "...did you not read, bro? Or perhaps use Google if you don't believe me?"
Now with that aside...when it comes to the LIRR, the units that have been/are used for routes like Port Washington, Babylon, and Long Beach are M1/M3s, M7s and M9s. All of these are EMUs powered via third rail. However for the ones on the non-electrified branches (Oyster Bay, Montauk, and Greenport), this is not the case. The LIRR's diesel trains are bi-level C3s hauled by EMD DE30AC or DM30AC locomotives. There tends to be a C3 acting as cab car on one end, but sometimes both ends have a locomotive. And the DM30ACs in particular are special as unlike the DE30AC, they have the ability to switch to electric mode to enter Penn Station. Because of the fact the DMs are the only LIRR diesels allowed in Penn, there's hardly any direct LIRR diesel trains to or from Penn.
My personal favorite note about Amtrak's NPCUs is that many of them are nicknamed cabbage cars as a portmanteau of cab and baggage. Where the prime mover used to be has been turned into a baggage area in trains that have baggage service
Good old cabbages. Though I’ve never seen one been used as baggage storage.
It's been Decades since I have been to The States.. Do some of these Cabbage-cars have an APU? (Auxiliary Power Unit)? A Unit that powers HVAC, and such, would give a broader selection available Powered Locomotives.
@@Thom-TRA I know right! they have baggage space but they NEVER use it. I have even seen trains with a cabbage car and in the set there is a BAGGAGE CAR!
WHY?!?!?
I like how they are all over the place. Chicago, Northeast and in California too.
@@TBTboston I do think that they have to do it in such a way to comply with the requirements set by the Host Railroads. Maybe that those RR have some cheap signaling system, or maybe it's just old.
3 years ago during the Covid-19 pandemic while I was at home during the lockdown, I learn and research that cab cars definitely are unique, I was confused like alot train lovers at first I thought cab car was locomotive until this day now 😊
Trains on the Pyongyang Metro run with third rail power too! Our metro is famous for using old Berlin U-Bahn Class D cars, given to us by Germany in 1997, but cars made in-house (by Kim Chong-t'ae Electric Locomotive Works; the country's largest railway equipment manufacturer) have also been used since 2015. The Pyongyang Metro began operating in September 1973, about a year before Seoul opened Line 1.
It consists of two lines, the Chollima Line (named after a winged horse in Korean mythology that can travel one thousand li/over 310 miles in a single day) and the Hyoksin Line (which means "renewal"), and sixteen stations with eight on each line (used to be seventeen but Kwangmyong on the Hyoksin Line closed in 1995 as it was built under the Kumsusan Palace of the Sun which became sacred land as a mausoleum). The system has a depth of approximately 110 meters and because of how deep it is, in times of war, the system's stations can double as bomb shelters.
When the Long Island Railroad first started push-pull commuter service, they used about 20 retired first-generation diesels as cab cars. These were mostly Alco FAs, but there were also a pair of EMD F units. They removed the traction motors and after a few years replaced the prime-mover with a lower power diesel-generator sled as hotel power for the coaches. I commuted to college by train and got to ride behind (and in front of) classic diesels (or at least the shells) every day.
About 20 years ago we got brand new push-pull trainsets with about half the diesels dual mode, so a train can go all the way from diesel territory to the tunnels at Penn Station for a single seat ride. With these the end coach has a control cab. When the trains get past about 10 coaches, there is a locomotive at both ends
Many of the old FA and F-unit cab cars went to museums, and at least one of them has been restored as an operating Alco FA. (They basically powered a dummy unit!)
The Oyster Bay line was populated by those FA's,and F's,and they had some really interesting backgrounds! The last two[F's] were ex-B&O,plus they went through a number of paint schemes! During the 1970's,the EMD's came in,and the Alco C420's went out! There were some interesting consists,during that period!Examples- GP38-FA,MP15-MP15 sandwiches,GP38-FA-GP38,and all with converted MU cars,in the middle! Mineola during the rush hour,was an interesting place! Thanks for your attention and time! Hope this information is of use! Had a group of TAMR guys going into those days,sorely missed! Again thank you 😊!
I was strictly back and forth from Mineola to Stony Brook on the Port Jeff branch.
The new equipment is very nice: there are electronic PAs and signage so the Conductor doesn't need to yell "Kings Park, NEXT!!", but since it was bought brand new and designed to do exactly what it does, it will never have as many stories as those improvised trains from 40 years ago!
Thanks for the video Thom! Here in the UK, we have Driving Van Trailers. We have the Mark 3 and Mark 4 type which were built in the 1980's. Only around 30 sets are still in service. The main operators are LNER (Intercity 225) on their London to Leeds/York route. I will be travelling on one of these in a few weeks. Chiltern Railways between London and Kidderminster and Transport for Wales between Cardiff/ Holyhead/Manchester. 🙂
I like the driving trailers that TransPennine uses!
Have fun on your trip!
Thom, I've been a railfan and HO scale modeler longer than your parents have been alive. When I first saw the "What are Cab Cars?" I thought "Never mind, I know what they are and how they work." But, I eventually watched it, and I'm glad I did. Really interesting and entertaining. Proving you CAN teach ole hippies new...um...well...I dunno...some clever shit...
Putting instructor to ole hippies on my resume now 😂
@@Thom-TRA LMAO!
Hi Uncle Enore! I’m glad to see another old baby boomer here. Thom is always worth watching. He’s smart and does his research.
@@annenelson5656 Agreed, Anne...
Thank you for the effort and time you put into making great and informative videos like this. We appreciate it!!!🚂
8:38 that example is also seen in Belgium with the NMBS Vlaanderen Wallonia Société Nationale Chemin du Fer Belge M7 since some of them are actually operated by HLE19 locomotive the GF Coupler version of the HLE 18. To achieve what the Dutch DD-AR powercar has there's the BMx driving trailer. A similar scenario will be seen with New Jersey Transit MLV IIIs is that if you put a power car between the two MLV Cab cars you get a train set
Thanks for the lesson.
Thank you for this informative video, I enjoy all of your videos. Please keep them coming.
I’ll keep ‘em coming!
Excellent summary, thanks
You're welcome!
Good stuff!
5:51 Sounded like the train was trying to say "DO, RE, MI, FA, SO, LA and TI"
That's because it was!
And an extra DO, RE, MI, FA added.
Thank you very much, I did learn something new, keep making these videos.
Thank you! Glad it was educational and entertaining haha
Many single ended locomotives in the USA have a thing called a "hostler stand" control in the back to make it easy for hostlers (yard engineers) to back up locomotives in yards and stations. One of the scenes in your video shows a hostler backing up a locomotive this way.
The British had cab cars on steam powered trains, which was quite a trick. I think there's one of these preserved in Didcot, Oxfordshire, which is well worth a visit if you ever get out that way.
I’m impressed that they had driving trailers with steam locomotives! That must have been quite an engineering marvel
@@Thom-TRA It was, but it wasn't terribly successful. Generally on steam commuter trains, the British used tank engines that could be run in either direction, since most British lines were double tracked, running around to the other end wasn't a problem.
You ought to plan a holiday in Britain, you could spend a whole month, easy, just visiting railway museums and riding heritage lines and mainline steam and vintage diesel excursions. Then there's the narrow gauge trains like Romney Hythe & Dymchurch and the Welsh trains like the Ffestiniog. England is about the size of Illinois and has like 50 railway museums and heritage lines. The Brits just love their trains!
@@Thom-TRA ruclips.net/video/alVb0lS_awY/видео.html
At one point my state had Sampta from Detroit to Pontiac if they return probably have Arrow cab cars & Amtrak changer from Pontiac to Detroit Airport.
The Railjet trains in Austria are pulled by a Siemens Taurus electric locomotive. It’s so cool how they play a musical scale when pulling out of the station. Sometimes I wonder if when arriving the musical scales are played backwards. The music those locomotives make gives them the nickname “Singing Locomotive”. We need locomotives like that here in the USA. Maybe light rail systems.
Which is why I'm a big advocate of the seats that flip so you can sit facing the direction the train is moving. I suffer from Vertigo and I'll have an attack if I'm sitting backwards. Thanks for the videos.
Me personally I just like your videos I've been with a cab car is since I railfan on Amtrak California trains
Honestly it's kind of sad that people leave comments on your videos but don't actually watch them...
Keep up the great work!
p.s. I did wat the video before leaving a comment :)
Haha thanks for being a great example
Depending on your point of view, the Stadler FLIRT DEMUs (with the diesel power pack car in the centre) have 2 cab cars (although both have electric motors as well, so you could say they have 2 locomotives in their generally fixed train-sets). Same with their future BEMUs (battery pack car in the middle)
I too like trains. I'm very much into CTA trains old and new
GO transit in Ontario has 2 differant cab car styles from Bombardier and runs many train sets daily on 6 lines with an average of 5 trains each line on rush hour and most lines having midday service aside for Richmond Hill line and Milton lakeshore east/west has service 7 days a week as does Barrie, Stuoville and Kitchener line(to Mount pleasant)
I was wondering why loads of US commuter lines use locomotive-hauled trains with cab-car instead of multiple units. I'm guessing it's so they don't have to take an entire train consist out of service if only one coach has a fault; they could just swap out the one coach instead.
New Zealand had at least one type of cab-car as well. It was the 'SD' class, rebuilt from old British Rail coaches. They were used in Auckland commuter service between 2004 and 2015, running with 'SA' coaches (more BR Mk2 rebuilds) and either 'DC' or 'DFB' class diesel locomotives.
Some SDs have been modified even further for Te Huia service, and are now designated as the 'SRV' class. And yet, despite the train often only having four coaches, they still use a 'DFB' locomotive at both ends because of the high number of level crossings between Hamilton and Auckland.
Is that for safety for the driver?
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's why they still use two locomotives. But just last year they were doing test runs on the mainline with only one locomotive and the cab-car leading.
When I was a little kid, I always thought cab cars were multiple units until I saw the locomotive at the back. Then it was weird when I saw real bilevel multiple units on Metra electric because I was expecting a locomotive at the back.
Yeah it’s crazy how they made the EMUs look identical to the cars
Most of the things you show in the video i know about, except ... that Amtrak uses "empty" locomotives as cabcar. Very interesting. I must congrat you for the exceptional clear explanation of the content! 👍 Ralf
I’m glad it was clear! And yes, the NPCUs are a bizarre phenomenon!
Bedankt Ralf!
Thank you for uploading this informative video. Where I reside outside of downtown Tampa, Amtrak uses a whye track in order to reverse both their Florida-bound trains ( Silver Star and Silver Meteor ) backwards into Tampa's Union station. I witnessed this a few years ago while waiting at a railroad crossing. Considering how long the passenger carrier have been providing this service, I don't understand why Amtrak management has not seen fit to add cab cars to the rear of their long distance trains, or invest in building bi-level DMUs, or bi-directional locomotives for non-electrified territories in 21st century America.
Sadly, new railjet and nightjet sets are not yet approved for push-pull, so locomotives must still be swapped or placed at each end until the cab cars are certified
As a German, the ALEX is an interesting service for neither using multiple units nor cab cars. It's the last of its kind, and it's not a heritage line, it's a normal train with old carriages. They even swich directions at stations, split trains and swich from diesel to electric traction.
The ALEX’s are numbered, from what I understand
UK/Here we have purpose built DVTs (Driving van trailers) and DBSOs (Driving brake standard ordinary) which were rebuilt from coach/brake van vehicles.Push/Pull operation is quite widely used here but in my experience there seems to be occasional problems with electrical control equipment.Push/Pull goes back to the steam days mainly on branch lines,the locomotives were connected to the autocar with linkage.Looking back now they seem rather quaint but they operated very successfully.
I can’t believe they did push pull with steam trains! I wonder how that worked
@@Thom-TRA in Germany they used a "Befehlsgerät Bauart Hagenuk" translated freely "command device type Hagenuk" the driver would be in the control(command)car with a brakevalve and a command device. The fireman would receive commands for speeding up and slowing down, operating the pushing loco. It worked like a steam ship, giving orders to the boiler room from the bridge. (The copper round thing you always see in the movies "ding...ahead full"). When the driver applies the brakes, the cilinder-steamvalve in the loco was pushed shut. (It was mechanically connected to the brakeline). There were also some push/pull goods trains, with a wooden boxcar with a window for 'commanding' the train. Search google for "dampf wendezug" (steam push/pull train) for some pictures.
@@Thom-TRA There is a clip on RUclips ''Driving a steam train while standing in a carriage-GWR Autocoach.Trains could be made up of more than one carriage but they had to be push-pull fitted to be compliant.
@@Thom-TRA Compared to the diesel and electric powered trains, steam trains with cab cars use a much more mechanical system. The Great Western Railway used a system of pulleys and linkages to control a locomotive, previously a steam railmotor, from a cab-control car. These were later called Auto coaches. Some other railways used a system of compressed air instead, but the concept was the same.
It wasn't perfect, as the fireman still needed to be onboard the locomotive while it was pushing the train, and the locomotives didn't always respond properly to the controls relayed from the auto coach. I believe the later DBSO's had this "delay" built in to avoid a sudden slack move when the brakes were applied, but it had the adverse effect of not applying the brakes quickly enough in an emergency
@@Thom-TRA If you can find the series "Steam Train Britain" somewhere on streaming they show an Autocar working a heritage railway. In some cases I think GWR operated consists with 2 Autocars sandwiching a steam tank engine in the middle, if they needed more space on the train, although an intervening coach also seems to have been used
And of course "Thomas the Tank Engine" has 4 Autocoaches (inferred at least--Isabel, Dulcie, Alice, Mirabel), which would have been operationally suitable for train services on a mostly rural island with clearly significant GWR heritage
ICR mentioned!!! Woooo
Hello
An interesting explainer, as usual. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing. I like seeing all the trains around the world!
I like trains from around the world too
Cab cars do vary by countries. Some nations don't have cab cars and still have to use a dog bone to get around to the right direction. Then again it's not a very popular thing in most of Asia but somehow South Asian countries managed to have them. In India you find them in large cities. California also used use Amfleet cab cars before the CA cars came around. Amtrak California today still from time to time put locomotives on both ends of the train.
New to your channel but loving learning and seeing all the different trains 🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃 thank keep up your fantastic channel 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
I’m glad you’re learning something!
There is a crazy failure mode with cab cars that is unique to diesel trains. Many passenger trains have a separate smaller diesel generator (a HEP unit) to provide electricity to the cars in addition to the actual prime mover (i.e., the main engine that generates electricity to move the train via the traction motors). When running locomotive first, the HEP does not need to be working in order to keep moving the train. If, however, you are going in reverse and the HEP unit fails, the cab car will start to draw on its battery backup. If you try to drive from the cab car long enough without a working HEP, even if the prime mover is still good to go, the cab car will eventually drain all the power out of the batteries. Once the batteries are dead, the cab car will throw the train into emergency as a safety measure, and will dump all the air out of brakes. In order to move the train again, you have to connect the cab car to an electric source to get the air brakes unlocked.
You really don't want that to happen in the middle of winter. Ask me how I know. ☃
Well I definitely learned something new this morning!
I love cab cars
Much to my astonishment, this was very interesting. Thank you.
Great explanation.
There are many weird trains in this world RHB in Switzerland uses EMUs to pull passenger or freight. But they don't use cab cars on there Bernina Line so the EMU has to run around the train at the terminus.
I love the Rhaetische bahn! Rode it many years ago from Disentis to Chur.
Excellent educational video. Thank you for making it.
You’re welcome!
Really well explained Thom 👌🏻
Thank you! And thanks for the great footage!
@@Thom-TRA welcome 🤗
Hi, the carb cars are usually rectangularly shaped, but the locomotives make an angle less than 90 degrees (the metrolink cab also does so). Does that make a huge different?
Depends on the speed the train is running at. Low speed trains can just brute force their way through the increased air resistance while high speed trains benefit more from a more aerodynamic shape. Which is why nearly all cab cars are flat-faced in the US :/
Very good narrative!
Thank you!
love your channel
Thank you!
How about older EMUs with control cabs on each end of the cars.( Think NICTD)
I thought I knew all about cab cars but I learned some new information, particularly the Amtrak NPCUs! Thanks for a very well done video with great footage.
Thank you! The NPCUs are a very strange phenomenon!
very well done!
Thank you!
THIS WHOLE TIME THE ENGINE WAS PUSHING THE CAB CAR THIS HOLE TIME?!
Very good video I love cab cars
Thanks Luke!
You missed the third variant in list at 2:52, While a Railjet has a control car, it cannot operate as separate vehicles, as the car set is not splittable. Only the end cars have buffers and cable connectors.
7:25 Welcome to the confusing world of UIC cables, where the connector always fits but the vehicles talk a different dialect. By plugging in another locomotive both sides understand each other again.
A vehicle that is more in line with US designs would be the old Hasenkasten type cars
Even if they’re not splittable, they still belong to the second category.
The distinction is where the power and traction come from, not if the cars are independent or not.
A locomotive on both ends was the mainstay of the GB Diesel fleet HST's for decades till they were mostly replaced by units.
I have to say US and Canadian cab cars generally just look like coaches running backwards and maybe some form of more obvious Driving Van Trailer en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_Van_Trailer might save the confusion.
Interestingly though with exception to the new MKV Driving cars most GB Cab cars don't carry passengers but have space for cycles, luggage and parcels back when they were built.
Most loco hauled sets in GB use these the exception being the sleeper stock which on the GWR Night Riviera picks up and drops a locomotive on the rear to run it into and out of Paddington Stations Victorian shed.
I agree with you on the RailJet noise more tuneful than their cousins elsewhere in the world but hey that's the Austrians for you good at music.
Maybe the Dutch can get help from NJT or DB to get those cab cars working again
Yeah I honestly have no clue where the difficulties were, all I remember is the decision to switch to sandwich formation. I was a student in Rotterdam at the time, so I got to see them slowly get introduced.
@@Thom-TRA I'm pretty sure the main issue is difficulties in installing ETCS in the cab cars
great footage! I love trains but don't have a lot of actual knowledge about them. It's exciting to see a purely informational video from you.
Happy to share what I know! And glad to hear you love trains haha
Most USA Cab Cars looks like British Rail DBSOs.
5:50 Remember when I heard it first time, I was seriously wondering who play at that station before I realised it´s Taurus doing it. It was in push-pull unit, not Railjet but (also ÖBB´s) CityShuttle in České Budějovice.
Also ČD (blue RJs) commisioned modernised units on same bases, called ComfortJet. Pretty much same thing just with Vectron desing in front. Also already operate lower speed conventional unit InterJet based on same platform.
PS: 6:24 that´s pretty much American version of RJ
Why is it that some cabs (Metra, Metroliner) have diagonal stripes but others (Multilevel, Airo) do not?
It’s an outdated safety feature some operators prefer to keep
These have made a bit of a comeback in the UK recently with the new-ish Nova sets that have streamlined driving trailers - it's a surprise when you first see there's a loco on the back. For years we seemed to be going all multiple unit.
I absolutely love the TransPennine livery
I figured that metra trains could run in both directions without needing to switch the locomotive around
But I never knew how the conductor sent the signals to the locomotive because from my perspective it was just a bunch of cars buckled together
I thought wire would be too problematic but ig it works
Another thought was Bluetooth technology but then that would make trains traveling through storms a little funky
Or what would happen if one part of the train lost the connection or power
All the cars are attached by many thick cables, wires, and pipes. That’s why it’s a whole ordeal to disconnect cars from each other.
I was quite amazed when I saw the train reversing in the "Amtrak City of New Orleans" video and the speed at which the train was reversing. In Australia where I am such movements would be restricted to 5 mph. It's so fascinating how different countries and cities do things!
The differences between places and companies are what captivate me!
The GO train Cab cars are rather aesthetically pleasing. CalTrain and Amtrak California are looking into Multiple units now, so the days with locomotive hauled Caltrain & Amtrak california trains may be numbered.
GO did design a pretty good cab
@@Thom-TRAThe GO Cabcars with asesthetic designs are known as CEM Cabcars. They use the K5CA-LS horns that are quite disgusting. CDTX 2104’s horn is much worse.
I have noticed (while just out and about, by which I mean on RUclips) that American locomotives, even some of the newer ones, aren't bidirectional. That's weird! Why is that?
I have no clue! It might be so conductors can walk from the passenger cars into the locomotive while it is in motion
We had DVTs in Britain
They are like a class 91 but without the electric loco part and they can hit speeds of 125mph
Do some railways still operate them?
@@Thom-TRAEDIT: TFW Transport for wales have DVT at one end and the other end is a diesel locomotive called a class 67
@@Thom-TRA also theres a lookalike with both ends tilted called the class 90 and they run on frieghtliner
btw Chicago 9:30
The *train* is called the City of New Orleans, and that’s what I’m talking about here.
I think I’d know my own city.
I like your detailed explanations Thom! I learned a lot about CAB cars in this video, keep up the good work!
Thank you! Glad you learned a lot
Well done ! What are your thoughts on the iconic Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 engines?
Such a classic and beautiful look. Like a sea monster waiting to be discovered.
@@Thom-TRA Or a hotdog in a top loading bun?
@@johnalder6028 yes that is perhaps more accurate. But I pity the teeth that bite into that hot dog!
@@Thom-TRA Then it would be time for dental implants or maybe a set of teeth like Jaws from Janes Bond movies?
Interesting fact about the ICE 2 and also a problem that cab cars can create: Because the cab car is substantially lighter then the engine car it is more susceptible to side winds when for example exiting a tunnel onto a bridge at high speeds. For that reason the ICE 2 is limited to 250kmh when using the cab car, down from 280kmh. For quite some time the Train was limited to 200kmh (using the cab car) when running on High Speed lines with particularly high bridges and strong side winds.
That is an interesting fact that I did not know! Thank you for sharing
small correction about the DDAR
they never had the motor cars the NS always used them with a 1700 as a train set
its the DDM1 push pulls that were pulled/pushed by the 1600s that got the engine cars(mDDM) later in their service life altho they werent succesfull and ran the last years with either 1600s or 1700s
were the confusion probably comes from is that the DDZ/NIM(less known original name) are made up of old DDAR cars with the mDDM engine car from the DDM1
also the fact that both the DDAR and DDM1 almost look like exact copies from the outside same with the 1600 and 1700s doesnt help either
it was funny how sometimes with the DDARs you could just have 3 DDAR sets coupled up
so 1700 3 DDAR cars 1700 3 DDAR cars 1700 3 DDAR cars XD
also for those who wanna know what the full names are
DDM1=dubbeldeksmaterieel 1(doubledecksrollingstock 1)
DDAR/DDM2-3=DubbelDeksAgloRegiomaterieel/DubbelDeksMaterieel 2-3(yea got no idea how to translate angloregio)
mDDM=motorDubbelDeksMaterieel(enginedoubledecksrollingstock)
DDZ/NIM=DubbelDekkerZonering/NieuwIntercityMaterieel(doubledeckerzoning/newintercityrollingstock)
materieel=rolling stock in dutch
edit: this is purely from memory i could be mixing up things the fact that the DDM1 and the DDAR are almost exact copies exept interiour and technology doesnt help
I appreciate the comment and the impressive memory, but I have to correct you.
DDM are the original double deckers, where DDAR are the follow-up orders (DDM2 and DDM3). The original DDM never received the mDDM motor cars, the DDAR did. Though the exteriors of the cars looked identical, the interiors were different, with the first series of DDM having red seats while DDAR and mDDM had green seats.
It was the mDDM + DDAR combos that received the makeover into DDZ (or NID, not NIM).
@@Thom-TRA You are right Thom.
Nice video. I took a commuter train from New York City to Dover New Jersey by way of NJ Transit. Some of NJ Transit's trains are electric (catenary) and utilize pantographs and cab cars. The NJ train that I caught was electric and reminded me of riding the Chicago South Shore and Metra Electric trains, even though these two trains run on their own power from each end.
NJT is in the process of converting their locomotive hauled trains into trainsets!
NJT has power car in between the cab cars for collecting the power through pantographs in power car but driving controls will be done from cab car
I've spotted something wrong the ice 2 does have 2 power cars 1 at each and the ice 1 is the cab car version
Weet je het echt zeker? Ik zou het toch nog maar eens een keer op zoeken 😉
@@Thom-TRA kheb t zelf gezien
@@trainspotterlisa in een droom misschien? Want het is toch echt de ICE 1 met twee motorrijtuigen en de ICE 2 met een stuurstand. Algemeen bekend onder trein spotters.
what type of fish do you have?
She’s a goldfish named Lizzie
Hi Thom! I’m glad you mentioned the California state supported trains, also known as “California Amtrak.” These include the Capitol Corridor from San Jose to Sacramento (with a couple of schedules continuing to Auburn) and the San Joaquins. I live a block from the Capitol Corridor line in Hayward and have ridden the line several times. Riding in the cab car used to be more fun until they blacked out the window on the door between the cab and the seating area. Shame. I also love how the power units evoke the streamliners of yesteryear while running backwards (being pushed if you prefer) with the aerodynamics of an apartment building.
Another great video, by the way. Thanks for sharing your love of trains.
PS: I’m going to get back to your LA Union Station video. I promise!
With the aerodynamics of an apartment building 😂 too true
Those Brighline trains would be a prime example of Sets with two Powered Locomotives.
They are a great example. As are the TGVs in France. But I think that to some viewers, those may kind of look like multiple units, so I went with the Dutch example, which seemed to have a little bit more of a clear distinction to me.
Those brightline sets, since they're only hauling 4 cars are only running one locomotive to move the cars. The other provides power via HEP. Once brightline expands, they'll use both prime movers to move the train.
Hi Thom, thank you for clarifying an interesting topic about cab cars. In Australia, we don't have them, so when I first started watching RUclips train uploads, especially American transit trains, I was at first confused by watching what seemed to me to be a train going forward, with the loco at the back and thought that perhaps the Conductor was in the front relaying directions to the engineer. It seemed weird. As you point out there was nothing to suggest that the engineer was in the front based on the appearance of the carriage. Here our local trains have an identical driver (engineer)cab at the front & rear of the consist. Another awesome production Thom.
I never realized there are no cab cars in Australia. It does look kind of weird here in the states, doesn’t it?
I like what European railways do, where the back cab looks different than the locomotive. Makes me look longer, because of course you have to see both ends!
Hey trains are awesome when you come to California again you should try the Pacific Surfliner and the LA Metro A line
You’ll be excited to see what my Easter video will be all about
Another interesting category is trains that have cab cars because they reverse their direction of travel part way through their run. The only two examples of this that I can think of are Amtrak’s Keystone Service and Ethan Allen Express (Currently using a second locomotive due to a shortage of cab cars. I believe the Ethan Allen Express is where the HHP-8 cab cars will be used.). Are there any other examples of trains in the US that do this for more than just a maneuver into a station off of the main line?
There is, of course, the ridiculous detour the trains make in Tampa
@@Thom-TRA True, a 40 mile detour off of the main line is more than your average station maneuver, especially when there's a second station along the detour route (Lakeland)!
Some call them
Pilot Car or Control Car …
I believe amtrak midwest uses NPCU's on its route between milwaukee and chicago. Ill confirm when I get in tomorrow and update this comment if im incorrect.
They do, one is in a veterans livery! Otherwise they also use two locomotives.
And, in the future, they’re using cab cars.
Why doesn't Amtrak run on electric soo they could go faster
Lol 5:22
have you considered going to the illinois railway museum that could be interesting
As I understand it cab cars are remote driving cars where by the the driver can control the locomotive remotely.They are fitted with time division multiplexing to synchronise the locomotive and cab.They are almost exclusively used on passenger trains and I have never seen them used on freight although in principal they could be provided you kept the same consist throughout and wired up the time division.
In England cab cars are called driving van trailers or DVTs
the NS Traxx + ICR combination is temporary until the ICNG's go into service though, the cab car is in there, but you can't use it on the Traxx, that and they're out of use since some time now, we got rid of most of our push/pulled trains in favor of EMU's (except of the IC Berlin and the Nightjet)
Also, the DD-AR is the motor car, the mDDM is the cab car. the DDM1's are the train cars which were pushed/pulled by a 1600/1700. The DDAR and mDDM's were refurbished and are now called DDZ (though they've been a bit troublesome, so they will be getting replaced by new trains from Alstom which will look like the ICNG, but they will have single and bi-level car's. the 1600's have been sold to some freight companies like Locon and Captrain, but the 1700's are being scrapped since they can only couple with passenger trains
Also, did you know the mBk (the motorcar of the DDZ and DDAR) uses a Bo'Bo'Bo configuration?
The DDAR is a second generation of DDM cars (basically DDM2/3). 81 DDAR were built, and they all used locomotives.
In 1996, they built 50 mDDM. 50 DDAR sets were connected to a mDDM, but the remaining DDAR sets continued to operate with a 1700 locomotive.
This was a very informative video, I see cab cars mostly all the time on Metrolink, and Amtrak’s Pacific Surfliner. I know Metrolink used to use the Bombardier Bi Level cab cars from 1992 to 2011 or 2012, but they were replaced by Hyundai Rotem Bi Level cab cars starting in 2010, some of the Metrolink Bombardier Bi Level cab cars have been converted into coaches. I also do see the Coaster sometimes as well and they used cab cars to, they are supposed to get CEM cab cars very soon. Nice video as well.
Glad you enjoyed the video! I like the trains in Southern California
This is a very nice video, but there's something I wanna know: What are the pros and cons of using a locomotive-hauled train vs. a multiple unit/trainset? If Multiple units don't need locomotives, why don't all passenger rail operators use them?
Great question! So in theory, loco-hauled trains are easier to split. You can make shorter consists for less demand, or swap out cars if one is broken.
In reality however, this is very rarely done. It takes a lot of time to uncouple cars, and most railways are seeing the benefits of train sets, even if strictly speaking they offer less flexibility length-wise.
It’s just that the American railroads are several decades behind in these developments… I suspect we will see more train sets in the future, as the ones that are in use are wildly popular.
@@Thom-TRA I would accept that answer, except... Some Multiple Units can have individual cars that can hook up to one another, like the Budd RDCs and Silverliners, yet, even in Europe, they haven't only failed to displace locomotive-hauled trains, but passenger locomotives are still being built, like the ES64 "EuroSprinter".
I imagine there's more to the story seeing as locomotive-hauled passenger trains are still a thing everywhere in the world, except maybe in Japan.
@@AutismTakesOn they’re still building gas cars, but that doesn’t that mean electric cars are not gaining traction.
Take a look at the last several decades in Europe and Asia. Where locomotive-hauled trains were the predominant mode at first, many of them have been replaced by multiple units. For each new locomotive that comes out there are a dozen new train sets. And the locomotives that are being built for passenger service are usually being built with dedicated cars specific to that locomotive. These are gradual processes.
@@Thom-TRA I take your point now. Still, do you think maybe multiple units might not completely replace multiple units due to passenger fluctuations, especially in summer being the highest? I mean... With mixed-traffic locomotives, you can use them for passengers in the summer, and freight in other seasons, which is what the Alaska Railroad does with its SD70MACHs.
I don't think it'd make sense for some railroads to have a piece of equipment they only can use for part of the year.
@@AutismTakesOn If I may, frequency is part of why multiple units aren't really used here. Outside of the New York Metropolitan Area, there isn't much call for multiple units because capacity of trains is valued a bit more. Weight of the cars is another issue. It's pretty common knowlege that trains are so much heavier here because of buff strength and crashworthiness requirements by the FRA, but there's another safety aspect. Multiple units are inherently lighter than locomotives, which is good for acceleration, but bad for crossings. There have been various instances where single MU's fail to activate grade crossings because they aren't heavy enough to trip the track circuit. Regular locomotive-hauled trains face this issue too; Amtrak's Illini and Saluki run trains with more cars than necesarry because the railroad owning the route requires them to be a certain length and weight to ensure they'll activate the crossings. Trying to use multiple units is basically a dead-starter for most railroads because the track isn't oriented for lighter trains, and to make an MU heavy enough while still being able to properly propel itself...at that point it makes more sense to use a locomotive and a string of coaches with a cab car at the end
European railroading and Asian railroading, very advanced, but I still think American rail roading is the best, this is my opinion
Sometimes it’s okay to have an opinion rooted in fantasy
Well done for your excellent and precise explanation of the use of cab cars ! I was glad you mentioned the OBB RailJets, which are my favourite trains in Europe. The OBB Taurus locos are wonderful too, as you showed them starting up with the Do Re Me musical accompaniment ! A point of American interest is the Brightline service in Florida, where they use a Charger diesel loco at each end of the train. I believe they decided that was the safest way to run the trains from Fort Lauderdale, where they are so many road crossings, and in the event of a mishap, the loco would give the Engineer greater protection than a Cab Car. Many thanks indeed .
I never realized the Brightline thing was because of crossings. Seems like a very insightful decision, some of those Floridians cannot seem to grasp the concept of letting a train pass.
@@Thom-TRA yes, sadly some Floridians can’t get over the fact that there are now frequent high speed trains running where previously fairly slow moving freight trains ran !
For a good variety of Cab Cars, the Surfline in Californian is a great experience! I see that the line has now reopened between Oceanside and San Diego, so both Amtrak Surfliners, and Coaster trains are now running, all with their bi-levels and Cab cars ! Of course you are spoilt for choice in Chicago with all the Metra action ! I’m really looking forward to seeing the new Metra locos that are now being delivered, and wonder which route they will be used on first ? Many thanks.
The HHP-8 is going to be scrapped.
Source?
@@Thom-TRA I heard it from an Amtrak employee.
@@trainglen22 that’s sad
milk aging comment
The locomotive that the railjet uses is called Vectron .
No, actually, it’s a Taurus. The Vectron is an evolution of the Taurus
These used to be called "push-pull" trains. Very descriptive.
Yep, push-pull, another term I forgot to include!
@@Thom-TRA vroeger vielen de ICRm rijtuigen in de 1e categorie namelijk dat ze door een locomotief(NS1100,1200,1300,1700 en 186) getrokken werden en bij het eindpunt omgelopen moest worden maar daarna werden het met de ICRmh stuurstandrijtuigen trek-duw treinen en met de IC Direct dienst in een sandwichformatie met 1 loc voor en achter
@@marcogeurts9881 ik heb de ICR nog meegemaakt tussen Den Haag en Venlo en tussen Zwolle en Roosendaal!
@@Thom-TRA vindt je de Nederlandse en bijvoorbeeld duitse en Belgische stuurstand rijtuigen qua vorm mooier dan die in Amerika?
@@marcogeurts9881 zeker
Very interesting video.
One of the most unusual cab cars I know is the "Cargo-Pendelzug". A freight-train with a cab-car in Switzerland.
de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo-Pendelzug
Japan had a cargo multiple unit as well!
Tom , here is an intercity train here in New Zealand which right now has a Locomotive at either end but one of the Passenger Carriages is also a Driving Cab with generator and passenger setting at this point in time it is not being used as Management ad the Drivers[engineers] are in talks about using it .
Up until 8years ago they were used as a push/pull unit on the Auckland network , the carriges/car were ex British Rail mkII's and the Locoimotives are GM's built in Canada and all are ex1970's
ruclips.net/video/oo0wdoBJq2Y/видео.html
I’ve heard many things about the railways in New Zealand. Would love to come over someday and check it all out.
@@Thom-TRA Thanks for your reply and I hope you come down to the bottom of the World .
Here we have 2 cities with suburban trains which both are electric and run on different voltage systems to intercity commuter services which are diesel powered and 3 major rail journeys which is shown on this link ;-
ruclips.net/video/nOfR6WRzoWc/видео.html