@@stevedonnie4077 I'm not sure what the super majority is for the PAC for expansion. I will say that the BIG12 allowed TEXAS an effective veto over preemptive backfill. The ACC preemptively backfilled over the objections of some flight risks.
@@tarheel7406 the PAC had an opportunity to add Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and OkSt in like 2011 and decided not to do it because of the Longhorn network. Then in 2021 USC basically vetoed the idea of poaching Big12 schools despite already planning to leave. The 2021 one was a small meeting of like 3 presidents and the commissioner, so it didn’t even get put to a conference-wide vote. Either way that’s twice the PAC should’ve gutted the Big12 and didn’t, which sucks for me since I’m a fan of one of the two teams actually paying for it.
@@stevedonnie4077 a) When the PAC passed on TEXAS+3, it was in a stronger position so that it didn't have to accept the LHN. b) The PAC failed to survive as a Tier 1 due to cultural/demo changes in the footprint. I suspect that TEXAS+3 may have delayed its decline but wouldn't have prevented. The PAC failed to survive as a Tier 2 due to arrogance and delusion. Regardless, history tells us that the "lower" members of a conference will elect to delay the inevitable rather than be proactive and better manage a decline. We saw the BIG12 be reactive during its slow decline. The PAC was too delusional to be proactive. To be fair, while the PAC could have likely taken some BIG12 remainders over any USC/UCLA objections, likely not if WASH/ORE also objected, and they likely thought a B1G invite was secure (which wasn't at that time). The PAC surely could have poached after the USC/UCLA news until the BIG12 negotiated its new deal?
Coming from a BYU fan, Kansas State is a contender. Avery Johnson and the run game is too good (throwing will get better), offensive line will get better, and the defense is solid. They just ran into (before the win) an underrated team, late late night/elevation for them, and an inexperienced offensive line/qb that played in an environment that is unlike any other they’ll ever play in again
Oregon State won more games in the past 25 years than Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State (ASU had to vacate 10 wins because it played ineligible players in those games) and Washington State. During that time Oregon State had a Pac-12 co-champion, had four 7-win seasons, went 8-5 four times, 9-4 three times, 10-4 once, 10-3 once and 11-1 once. In two seasons it came down to the OSU and Oregon winner to get into the Rose Bowl. And Oregon State was No. 20 nationally in TV viewership in 2023 (and the OSU-WSU game had 1.48 million viewers). The bottom half of the Big 12 continues to get horrendously bad TV numbers and Yormark is talking about basketball.
WSU and OS football teams are always scrappy and very often good, and they would have made the Big 12 more interesting because they would have given every one of the members a good fight. However, they wouldn't have given that conference major contenders for the playoffs. I'm glad they're trying to reconstitute the Pac 12 with regional schools. And no, they're not interested in revenge.
The only reasons I could see the Big12 regretting anything is 1) that PAC war chest was available but is now getting spent. 2) those corner Mountain Time teams could get sick of 8pm start times. 3) OSU was building huge momentum in football you could’ve rode but then got dashed. Those aren’t massive reasons, but if things snowball elsewhere or if the Big12 adds WSU/OSU down the line theres a chance they end up thinking they should’ve just done grabbed them in first place.
As an Iowan, it is hard. We've got a town about 15 miles E of Jack Trice named Nevada, IA (pronounced NeVAYda) 15 miles SW of Jack Trice is Madrid, IA (pronounced MADrid)
@@SvdSinner I grew up in Las Vegas, but my in-laws live in Ames and I live in Des Moines. It took a long time to get used to the way Nevada, Iowa is pronounced. But I bought a car in Nevada, IA and the Berry Patch is a great place to take the kids. I'm a lifelong BYU fan and an Iowa State grad student. Go Cougs and Clones!
It will be funny when Boise State dominates on a national level over the next few years and the pac-12 is the "best of the rest" and then becomes a power conference again. Also, when Gonzaga joins the pac-12 for basketball it will be top 3 basketball power conference. San Diego state - 9/10 basketball school. Gonzaga 10/10 Basketball school. Tournament teams from 2024 - Utah State, Wash state, Colorado State, Boise State made the first four, Gonzaga and Wash state. Gonzaga will be a dominant team every year and San Diego state just got done a few years ago playing for the Natty. Pac-12 in Basketball will be granted power status and I think if one of their teams wins a natty in basketball it will carry over to football as well. I expect the pac-12 to eventually be power status again but it will take 5-10 years or someone to win a natty in football or basketball.
Unless the new PAC can get some 4Cs and/or CALFORD to return, it has no feasible path to rise to the Tier 2 level. "Power" status is different for football and basketball. The BIGEAST is a "power" in basketball and has no football. UCONN basketball will wither outside of the BIGEAST. The ACC is UCONN's best move, but the ACC has no interest now or in a likely future.
Why are the former PAC members okay with the PAC name lingering as a heavily diminished brand? Surviving as a Tier 2 seems easily acceptable, but as a Tier 3 or worse?
Spencer is just too moronic on occasion. The BIG12 is 3rd (at best) in men's basketball, and that's only after its recent peak years: Final Four Appearances, 1st Rd Wins, Nattys (per Wiki 2015-2024. 2020 N/A) ACC: 9-5-3 B12: 5-3-2 (Excludes OK; includes Houston) BIGEAST: 6-4-4 SEC: 5-0-0 (Includes OK) B1G: 7-3-0 (Includes Oregon & UCLA) ACC - Appeared in 7 of 9 Final Fours (6 different teams) BE - Appeared in 5 of 9 Final Fours (2 different teams) B12 - Appeared in 4 of 9 Final Fours (4 different teams)
You guys are missing the point, here’s the threat: IF PacX gets a $15+ million per year per program media contract & adds the best of each of the other G5, suddenly they have a very attractive conference that looks a lot like the Big12, arguably with better venues, and if in the next round of media contracts PacX returns the favor & gets the next contract first, Big12 could languish like Pac12 did, and if SEC/Big10 come calling at the same time, like what happened with Pac12, then Big12 is in big trouble. Big10 could very well go after a number of Big12 schools, including but not limited to: All 4 of the Corner4 schools; Kansas WVU Iowa St SEC could go after any number of Big12 schools, including but not limited to: All 4 corner4 schools (especially Colorado and Arizona); WVU Kansas OkSt KsSt Texas Tech UCF ? If the SEC/Big10 strike again, how will the Big12 backfill if PacX by then has a comparable or better media contract ?
Dude... zero west coast venues for a team like Utah is completely untenable. If, say, Utah and Colorado or Utah and ASU were to jump to the PAC... the PAC as described below woukd be way better than the Big Lubbock. Hear this: If done right the new PAC will incorporate the 2 most football crazy regions in the country: the South and the Mountain west. Memphis and Tulane UTSA (or Texas State) and Rice Utah State and Wyoming South Florida and Southern Miss UConn and Georgia State 16
We have one super conference, two power conferences and 7 other conferences. The ACC will not be a power conference sometime this decade and the B10 is not a super conference due to their lack of national championships. Two championships in twenty years is pathetic.
@@kogspinz4 Conferences are not determined by football alone. It's more holistic. Remember that the SEC is the worst P5 in men's basketball measured by the Final Four over the past 10 years. Not even an appearance in the championship game.
Living in Fantasyland I see. The ACC is 1-3 good teams...and 15 check cashers that are mostly irrelevant. And the top 2 teams desperately want to leave.
The ACC internally considered and rejected every new BIG12 member. Has already backfilled for ~3. At what point would the ACC need more backfill and why would there be mutual interest between BIG12 members at that point?
@@squareknight a) The BIG12 has no big football programs. b) The BIG12 is already Tier 2. c) The BIG12's top 6 (net) teams have already left. Why no self-awareness?
@@tarheel7406 News flash sherlock...The ACC is on the same level as the B12. The difference is, the ACC has only 1-3 teams capable of making noise on a national level. No one cares about the other 14. In the B12, there are at least six teams as of now that could go to the playoffs. The ACC currently has 3 ranked teams...the B12 has 5 (with another currently still undefeated team that could get ranked in the next week or two). Last year, the ACC was 0-2 vs the B12 in the regular season and 1-2 vs the B12 in bowls. ;-)
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“Some guys are no.2’s - are Vice Presidents…” in reference to Drake Toll. Lol - funny. :)
The pac12 could have cannibalized the big12 and didn't. Eat or be eaten, no conference should ever wait to consume another.
The PAC had to have first seen its flight risks.
@@tarheel7406mhm instead it allowed those flight risks to veto expansion.
@@stevedonnie4077 I'm not sure what the super majority is for the PAC for expansion. I will say that the BIG12 allowed TEXAS an effective veto over preemptive backfill.
The ACC preemptively backfilled over the objections of some flight risks.
@@tarheel7406 the PAC had an opportunity to add Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and OkSt in like 2011 and decided not to do it because of the Longhorn network. Then in 2021 USC basically vetoed the idea of poaching Big12 schools despite already planning to leave. The 2021 one was a small meeting of like 3 presidents and the commissioner, so it didn’t even get put to a conference-wide vote.
Either way that’s twice the PAC should’ve gutted the Big12 and didn’t, which sucks for me since I’m a fan of one of the two teams actually paying for it.
@@stevedonnie4077
a) When the PAC passed on TEXAS+3, it was in a stronger position so that it didn't have to accept the LHN.
b) The PAC failed to survive as a Tier 1 due to cultural/demo changes in the footprint. I suspect that TEXAS+3 may have delayed its decline but wouldn't have prevented. The PAC failed to survive as a Tier 2 due to arrogance and delusion.
Regardless, history tells us that the "lower" members of a conference will elect to delay the inevitable rather than be proactive and better manage a decline. We saw the BIG12 be reactive during its slow decline. The PAC was too delusional to be proactive.
To be fair, while the PAC could have likely taken some BIG12 remainders over any USC/UCLA objections, likely not if WASH/ORE also objected, and they likely thought a B1G invite was secure (which wasn't at that time). The PAC surely could have poached after the USC/UCLA news until the BIG12 negotiated its new deal?
Love having Utah State in the PAC, but it’s not comparable to the Big 12. Apples and oranges. The Big 12 is a power conference.
It is if Big10 / SEC raids Big12 again and takes the best programs…
You and Spencer are perfect together. Hope you have him on the show more.
Coming from a BYU fan, Kansas State is a contender. Avery Johnson and the run game is too good (throwing will get better), offensive line will get better, and the defense is solid. They just ran into (before the win) an underrated team, late late night/elevation for them, and an inexperienced offensive line/qb that played in an environment that is unlike any other they’ll ever play in again
contender? for What???
@@RavenThom Big 12 Championship
Short answer: NO
Long answer: HELL NO!
LMAO
Oregon State won more games in the past 25 years than Colorado, Arizona and Arizona State (ASU had to vacate 10 wins because it played ineligible players in those games) and Washington State. During that time Oregon State had a Pac-12 co-champion, had four 7-win seasons, went 8-5 four times, 9-4 three times, 10-4 once, 10-3 once and 11-1 once. In two seasons it came down to the OSU and Oregon winner to get into the Rose Bowl. And Oregon State was No. 20 nationally in TV viewership in 2023 (and the OSU-WSU game had 1.48 million viewers). The bottom half of the Big 12 continues to get horrendously bad TV numbers and Yormark is talking about basketball.
Beavs baby!
Ball knower right here
WSU and OS football teams are always scrappy and very often good, and they would have made the Big 12 more interesting because they would have given every one of the members a good fight. However, they wouldn't have given that conference major contenders for the playoffs. I'm glad they're trying to reconstitute the Pac 12 with regional schools. And no, they're not interested in revenge.
The only reasons I could see the Big12 regretting anything is
1) that PAC war chest was available but is now getting spent.
2) those corner Mountain Time teams could get sick of 8pm start times.
3) OSU was building huge momentum in football you could’ve rode but then got dashed.
Those aren’t massive reasons, but if things snowball elsewhere or if the Big12 adds WSU/OSU down the line theres a chance they end up thinking they should’ve just done grabbed them in first place.
As a Nevadan, there's only one proper way to pronounce Nevada. Don't believe Spencer.
As an Iowan, it is hard. We've got a town about 15 miles E of Jack Trice named Nevada, IA (pronounced NeVAYda) 15 miles SW of Jack Trice is Madrid, IA (pronounced MADrid)
@@SvdSinner I grew up in Las Vegas, but my in-laws live in Ames and I live in Des Moines. It took a long time to get used to the way Nevada, Iowa is pronounced. But I bought a car in Nevada, IA and the Berry Patch is a great place to take the kids.
I'm a lifelong BYU fan and an Iowa State grad student. Go Cougs and Clones!
There's a town in Missouri also said as Ne-VAY-da @@SvdSinner
that is a generational suburn, almost impressive. - your intern, please don't fire me if you see this, hi drake's mom
Welcome Drake's Mom. Your son has a top notch Doce Grande show!!
@jaymcclanahan353 thank you!! Now if I could just get him to wear sunblock!😂
@@apriltoll2498 😂😂😂
IMO B12 should only add ACC schools that come available if it’s FSU, Clemson, Miami & Louisville.
Fresno, Boise, Washington, and Oregon would do well in the Big 12.
So would Memphis
Do you mean Wazzu and Oregon state? Oregon and Washington are already in big 10
Oregon will do quite well in the B1G thank you
Mountain Pac, or Pac West when both settle and marry?
I heard that the Pac 12 has invited Utah State. They are in talks with UNLV and also UConn for football only and Gonzaga.
The only team in the New Pac the ne new Pac offered was SDSU at 15 million per year. I suspect they might get an offer in the future.
It will be funny when Boise State dominates on a national level over the next few years and the pac-12 is the "best of the rest" and then becomes a power conference again. Also, when Gonzaga joins the pac-12 for basketball it will be top 3 basketball power conference. San Diego state - 9/10 basketball school. Gonzaga 10/10 Basketball school. Tournament teams from 2024 - Utah State, Wash state, Colorado State, Boise State made the first four, Gonzaga and Wash state. Gonzaga will be a dominant team every year and San Diego state just got done a few years ago playing for the Natty. Pac-12 in Basketball will be granted power status and I think if one of their teams wins a natty in basketball it will carry over to football as well. I expect the pac-12 to eventually be power status again but it will take 5-10 years or someone to win a natty in football or basketball.
Memphis beat Boise State on the football field last year...where it counts.
They are not the Boise State of the Chris Peterson years.
Unless the new PAC can get some 4Cs and/or CALFORD to return, it has no feasible path to rise to the Tier 2 level.
"Power" status is different for football and basketball. The BIGEAST is a "power" in basketball and has no football.
UCONN basketball will wither outside of the BIGEAST. The ACC is UCONN's best move, but the ACC has no interest now or in a likely future.
@@CheapMobileGeekBoise sucked last year tho. Probably the worst team they’ve had since 2000. Definitely a better program than Memphis overall
Resume: 20:00
Eventually Washington and Oregon State leave for the Big 12, making the PAC 12 the Mountain West.
Why are the former PAC members okay with the PAC name lingering as a heavily diminished brand? Surviving as a Tier 2 seems easily acceptable, but as a Tier 3 or worse?
Gotta admit, it’s pretty gangsta
No, the Pac-12 is just old Mountain West caliber teams, which are older WAC teams etc. As the big conferences expand, the low lying ones contract.
Today's show is brought to you by... the SUN! holy shit lol
Is that a red Drake Toll?!?More like "Baked Droll"
Nevada has only one way to pronounce it. If you don't think so then you are probably doing it wrong Spencer.
PAC 12 needs the zags and St. Mary’s
Spencer is just too moronic on occasion. The BIG12 is 3rd (at best) in men's basketball, and that's only after its recent peak years:
Final Four Appearances, 1st Rd Wins, Nattys (per Wiki 2015-2024. 2020 N/A)
ACC: 9-5-3
B12: 5-3-2 (Excludes OK; includes Houston)
BIGEAST: 6-4-4
SEC: 5-0-0 (Includes OK)
B1G: 7-3-0 (Includes Oregon & UCLA)
ACC - Appeared in 7 of 9 Final Fours (6 different teams)
BE - Appeared in 5 of 9 Final Fours (2 different teams)
B12 - Appeared in 4 of 9 Final Fours (4 different teams)
You guys are missing the point, here’s the threat:
IF PacX gets a $15+ million per year per program media contract & adds the best of each of the other G5, suddenly they have a very attractive conference that looks a lot like the Big12, arguably with better venues, and if in the next round of media contracts PacX returns the favor & gets the next contract first, Big12 could languish like Pac12 did, and if SEC/Big10 come calling at the same time, like what happened with Pac12, then Big12 is in big trouble.
Big10 could very well go after a number of Big12 schools, including but not limited to:
All 4 of the Corner4 schools;
Kansas
WVU
Iowa St
SEC could go after any number of Big12 schools, including but not limited to:
All 4 corner4 schools (especially Colorado and Arizona);
WVU
Kansas
OkSt
KsSt
Texas Tech
UCF ?
If the SEC/Big10 strike again, how will the Big12 backfill if PacX by then has a comparable or better media contract ?
No way PAC 12 gets a $15M
Deal. And none of the schools you mentioned bring incremental value to B1G or SEC.
Dude... zero west coast venues for a team like Utah is completely untenable. If, say, Utah and Colorado or Utah and ASU were to jump to the PAC... the PAC as described below woukd be way better than the Big Lubbock.
Hear this: If done right the new PAC will incorporate the 2 most football crazy regions in the country: the South and the Mountain west.
Memphis and Tulane
UTSA (or Texas State) and Rice
Utah State and Wyoming
South Florida and Southern Miss
UConn and Georgia State
16
The new PAC has too much G5 filler to attract the 4Cs and/or CALFORD.
Big-12 oh hum now that Oklahoma and Texas are gone who would anyone want to watch? There's nothing there.
Drake, you need to go to the hospital. Sunburn can kill.
Go Knights
UFO/UAP sighting Drake?
There is no power 4.
We currently have a tiered P4.
4 automatic bid confrences.
5 auto bids 7 more, 4 sec 2 b1g 1 acc teams lock it in (committee loves clemson regardless of how bad they are
We have one super conference, two power conferences and 7 other conferences. The ACC will not be a power conference sometime this decade and the B10 is not a super conference due to their lack of national championships. Two championships in twenty years is pathetic.
@@kogspinz4 Conferences are not determined by football alone. It's more holistic. Remember that the SEC is the worst P5 in men's basketball measured by the Final Four over the past 10 years. Not even an appearance in the championship game.
Pac will be better than the big 12
no matter, SEC B1G are so far ahead it isn't funny
Looks like ACc will take the top Big12 programs and the rest will fall to the MtnW/Pac12 third tier.
Living in Fantasyland I see. The ACC is 1-3 good teams...and 15 check cashers that are mostly irrelevant. And the top 2 teams desperately want to leave.
Lol dude take your crazy pills.
The ACC internally considered and rejected every new BIG12 member. Has already backfilled for ~3. At what point would the ACC need more backfill and why would there be mutual interest between BIG12 members at that point?
@@squareknight a) The BIG12 has no big football programs. b) The BIG12 is already Tier 2. c) The BIG12's top 6 (net) teams have already left.
Why no self-awareness?
@@tarheel7406 News flash sherlock...The ACC is on the same level as the B12. The difference is, the ACC has only 1-3 teams capable of making noise on a national level. No one cares about the other 14. In the B12, there are at least six teams as of now that could go to the playoffs. The ACC currently has 3 ranked teams...the B12 has 5 (with another currently still undefeated team that could get ranked in the next week or two). Last year, the ACC was 0-2 vs the B12 in the regular season and 1-2 vs the B12 in bowls. ;-)
PAC 2 (12) is still G5
no matter what they call themselves.
WSU barely escaped with a win against SJSU.
With that logic I guess Oregon is FCS they barely survived idaho 😂 like upsets/close games never happen
We also beat Texas Tech and UW, what’s your point?
Didn’t UNLV beat two Big 12 schools?
Husky troll alert
@@craiganderson8569
Houston and Kansas both on the road.
1:45 this has got to be the dumbest analogy I’ve ever heard