Ah the world we live in now. Where a common person can listen to a seminar by a protégé of Einstein discussing the intricacies of thought. The simplicities and complexities of life. This man is a giant among giants in the scientific world baring his strengths and weaknesses. It's really a pleasure to see that our true giants are gentle questioning beings working not just on complex mathematical theories but also on the understanding of who we are and how we work. This is really a blessing.
David Bohm is wonderful. If only political/regligious leaders, and the people too would heed his message. He puts the possibility to have faith back in humanity.
Thanks for uploading this. Edited transcript of this 1990 weekend seminar with Bohm has been published in the book form titled "Thought as a system". I found it useful. The three videos uploaded on RUclips (Friday evening, Saturday morning and Saturday afternoon part one) cover perhaps 60-70% of the seminar & the book. The seminar ran up to Sunday and core topics like illusion of self and time are covered on Sunday.
The state of the world has only gotten worse since this brilliant man began talking about it, so we clearly have not changed. However, I do think that more people are becoming aware of the reality that we have created, and realise that we are putting ourselves in grave danger. What Bohm says is just as relevant today, and even more important. Let us hope that enough of us are prepared to really look into ourselves and change the way we think about ourselves, others and the world, and begin looking for ways to create cooperation and peace in the world, beginning with ourselves.
Yes, he is saying here that even in the 70s we should have known to use energy more efficiently or otherwise there would be problems. Then in the 90s we struggle with long term oil supply and now we realize we must eventually stop using oil because of climate change. All these problems could have been avoided by the first proposed solution of using energy efficiently. Ofc now this is a very trivial example, but I think it is emblematic of the ongoing confusion. We want something, but in wanting that thing we turn a blind eye to all the detrimental secondary effects it would have. We don't want the latter ofc so really we don't know what we want.
Perhaps what David is getting in a part of his talk is universal thought from which thinking is a process is like a huge lake of water. Each person has a vessel in which part of the sea is contained but is still somehow connect to the sea. They both create an undivided water vapour for instance which are indistinguishable from each other. But the water in the pots is somehow contaminated by the structural nature of the pot. Maybe it is lined with lead. All the while the vapour coming from the pot is as pure as the water source. So to clarify the water in the pot the nature of the pot must change so that the pot and the water source are coherent or consistent with each other to the extent that the water in the pot isn't harmful. By analogy that thoughts are mostly coherent with the implicate qualities which are synergistic with nature for example.
Incoherence can be likened to the disowning of our own projections and reacting to them as if they were an external reality. Perception makes projections.
These were the final years of his life. At that point David Bohm's youth depression recurred. It's obvious he isn't in the best condition, but still he is sharp and passionate. I would imagine seeing things as clearly as Bohm, being truthful and not giving in to self deception, living in a state of disillusionment day in day out is hard to bear.
In 2013, Bohm would say that we think we own the internet, but the internet owns us. It will take us who knows where. It's most obvious in the US, but it would happen elsewhere too.
We really don’t have words to explain this deep concept. But, the you & I are within one individual in this scenario. I believe this concept is related to something that “happened” to me long ago. As a deeply disturbed young teenager in the 70s, wanting to die every night, I had a life-changing dream. I was opening and closing the door of my home’s front door. Another woman, an Asian woman, in a beige dress was at first at a distance. Every time I opened the door, the woman in beige got closer. Finally, when I opened the door and she was about 3 feet from me, she had a gun in her right hand, and she shot me in the heart. I physically fell to the floor. I could see myself lying on the ground; dead. I realized after waking in the morning that I had to focus (changed the course of my thoughts) on the good that happened each day rather than the negative. I had to die - stop the negative focus - which the you had perceived negatively each day. This you destroyed the negative me. It was painful for the “you” - and thus destroyed me (seeing only the bad in life). I guided my thoughts to appreciate the good each day & started taking action to escape the restrictions placed on me. I knew it would take years to build my confidence - but, each day, step by step, I practiced steering my thoughts to embolden my actions to live more fully. We have the words “consciousness” and “subconscious” - but do not fully understand the mechanism(s)/process(es) behind them. I consciously changed my intent each day to look at, and to be thankful, for the good that happened each day - even if the daily morsel was acknowledging the kind smile from a stranger.
The challenge with Bohm and JK was/is that they came to the very edge of what could be communicated, much like Wittgenstein - the rest of the way we have to strive and grapple. JK said this often about how people would say 'show me 'the way' - except he had nothing to show except, 'go deeper'. When they describe what they've seen just like the mystics it comes out mangled and tortured and then people go off and build their statues and worship those instead. The challenge is to sit with ones thoughts until one gets to their source and that's a herculean task.
At first i was puzzled by JK, for him never giving any clear answer. Just hinting. And asking to go deeper into the question. Also meanwhile he says "we are having a conversation, you and i" But clearly he is guiding the "conversation." I thought him kind of manipulative. But then i realized his way of theaching is ingenious. His repeating the same question, without answer. There is the answer. Because the moment he would say "this is it, here is your answer", like most of us do, then it is gone, it is not the answer. Then it is a word for thought to conceptualize. I just found these talks with D Bohm. What a privilege this exists for free.
When the silliness of the madness is seen, it is hard not to chuckle about it. It is just all so over the top ludicrous. I mean, humanity has this tendency to see itself as the be all end all on this planet, the intelligent species, yet, we have all this insanity, this madness, this chaos, disorder, destruction, all the suffering we are creating, making the world what it is... It is so ridiculous that you almost can't help but laugh sometimes. The violence and suffering, these things are not laughed at, but the insanity of humanity, the ridiculousness, the silliness of what is really going on. And it is not even based in any sort of real reality, not based in the really real at all. Incredible and absurd.
The only way to follow Bohm's approach is also to realize that we still not only lack the faculty to convincingly unify all the physics but, even more fundamentally, we are completely incapable to unify physics with general metaphysics.
Hold your hand in your pants intentionally at the 35th minute to see the reaction of those around him. And one of the audience notices this and reacts as such. So the point is, what he's trying to show is the reaction of thoughts gathered unconsciously but ready to act.
I think it's better if just David Bohm is talking. When he's talking there's a moving towards some insight, but when others go in the tone changes to a kind of humanistic psychotherapy. Even he shows some slight impatience with them as it goes along. No offence to the participants. I'll be moving along to the Saturday sessions now.
Yes but what's inside David is not. So you have to follow the projection to it's source. None of this is easy even listening to his attempt to convey his thoughts/ideas is a struggle. This is some heavy stuff. It takes time, patience, persistence. struggle. It's life. What life is supposed to be about at least for those who understand. Coherence instead of dissonance. It's the same idea his protege Einstein said "You can't solve a problem using the same thinking that caused the problem".
Has there ever been a more beautiful soul in the history of science?
Ah the world we live in now. Where a common person can listen to a seminar by a protégé of Einstein discussing the intricacies of thought. The simplicities and complexities of life. This man is a giant among giants in the scientific world baring his strengths and weaknesses. It's really a pleasure to see that our true giants are gentle questioning beings working not just on complex mathematical theories but also on the understanding of who we are and how we work. This is really a blessing.
Well said.
Now imagine what our world would be like if all of humanity could have discussions like this in a calm, collected manner.
David Bohm is wonderful. If only political/regligious leaders, and the people too would heed his message. He puts the possibility to have faith back in humanity.
JB McNolan the world needs him badly
I wish I had a friend like David Bohm
BE that friend to other people and eventually you will find you start to gravitate more like-minded people around you
David Bohm is a friend to us all.
Hooray :)
I'm happy for this opportunity to experience David Bohm in 2014.
in july 2020♥
As am I. July 2020 too.
In sept 2020
@@imbolc8024 In july 2021❤️
August 2021 !
Wowww..... listening him to him is pure meditation
Thanks for uploading this. Edited transcript of this 1990 weekend seminar with Bohm has been published in the book form titled "Thought as a system". I found it useful. The three videos uploaded on RUclips (Friday evening, Saturday morning and Saturday afternoon part one) cover perhaps 60-70% of the seminar & the book. The seminar ran up to Sunday and core topics like illusion of self and time are covered on Sunday.
David bohm is a brilliant physicist i learned a lots from his lectures.
♥ amazing man talks like, he saw this pandemic and all that happens, arriving... blessings
I love David Bohm.
OMG, finally! Someone who gets it!
The state of the world has only gotten worse since this brilliant man began talking about it, so we clearly have not changed. However, I do think that more people are becoming aware of the reality that we have created, and realise that we are putting ourselves in grave danger. What Bohm says is just as relevant today, and even more important. Let us hope that enough of us are prepared to really look into ourselves and change the way we think about ourselves, others and the world, and begin looking for ways to create cooperation and peace in the world, beginning with ourselves.
Yes, he is saying here that even in the 70s we should have known to use energy more efficiently or otherwise there would be problems. Then in the 90s we struggle with long term oil supply and now we realize we must eventually stop using oil because of climate change. All these problems could have been avoided by the first proposed solution of using energy efficiently.
Ofc now this is a very trivial example, but I think it is emblematic of the ongoing confusion. We want something, but in wanting that thing we turn a blind eye to all the detrimental secondary effects it would have. We don't want the latter ofc so really we don't know what we want.
absolutely love this man
Despite all the “advancements” we’re still fundamentally screwed.
Perhaps what David is getting in a part of his talk is universal thought from which thinking is a process is like a huge lake of water. Each person has a vessel in which part of the sea is contained but is still somehow connect to the sea. They both create an undivided water vapour for instance which are indistinguishable from each other.
But the water in the pots is somehow contaminated by the structural nature of the pot. Maybe it is lined with lead. All the while the vapour coming from the pot is as pure as the water source.
So to clarify the water in the pot the nature of the pot must change so that the pot and the water source are coherent or consistent with each other to the extent that the water in the pot isn't harmful.
By analogy that thoughts are mostly coherent with the implicate qualities which are synergistic with nature for example.
Deeply informative. Thank you.
this can open a close mind... awake. people. start a movement
Incoherence can be likened to the disowning of our own projections and reacting to them as if they were an external reality. Perception makes projections.
David Bohm reminds me to Noam Chomsky... a tranquile talking guy, a low voice... hard not to fall asleep
These were the final years of his life. At that point David Bohm's youth depression recurred. It's obvious he isn't in the best condition, but still he is sharp and passionate. I would imagine seeing things as clearly as Bohm, being truthful and not giving in to self deception, living in a state of disillusionment day in day out is hard to bear.
Can you point me to a source where it says that his depression recurred (other than wiki)
@@GomteshUpadhyeHis biography by his friend and colleague David S Peat, it’s called Infinite Potential.
In 2013, Bohm would say that we think we own the internet, but the internet owns us.
It will take us who knows where. It's most obvious in the US, but it would happen elsewhere too.
Its funny what David Bohm said: "the thought is done by me but the pain is done by you..." Paradoxically true!
shiat i didn't get it at first but i kind of read it again and wow :)
We really don’t have words to explain this deep concept. But, the you & I are within one individual in this scenario.
I believe this concept is related to something that “happened” to me long ago.
As a deeply disturbed young teenager in the 70s, wanting to die every night, I had a life-changing dream. I was opening and closing the door of my home’s front door. Another woman, an Asian woman, in a beige dress was at first at a distance. Every time I opened the door, the woman in beige got closer. Finally, when I opened the door and she was about 3 feet from me, she had a gun in her right hand, and she shot me in the heart. I physically fell to the floor. I could see myself lying on the ground; dead. I realized after waking in the morning that I had to focus (changed the course of my thoughts) on the good that happened each day rather than the negative. I had to die - stop the negative focus - which the you had perceived negatively each day. This you destroyed the negative me. It was painful for the “you” - and thus destroyed me (seeing only the bad in life). I guided my thoughts to appreciate the good each day & started taking action to escape the restrictions placed on me. I knew it would take years to build my confidence - but, each day, step by step, I practiced steering my thoughts to embolden my actions to live more fully. We have the words “consciousness” and “subconscious” - but do not fully understand the mechanism(s)/process(es) behind them. I consciously changed my intent each day to look at, and to be thankful, for the good that happened each day - even if the daily morsel was acknowledging the kind smile from a stranger.
What I would pay to hear David Bohm speaking to the problems of 2013!
It is like the loss of a father.
Bohm is the least arrogant world-class physicist that I know of . . .
The challenge with Bohm and JK was/is that they came to the very edge of what could be communicated, much like Wittgenstein - the rest of the way we have to strive and grapple. JK said this often about how people would say 'show me 'the way' - except he had nothing to show except, 'go deeper'. When they describe what they've seen just like the mystics it comes out mangled and tortured and then people go off and build their statues and worship those instead. The challenge is to sit with ones thoughts until one gets to their source and that's a herculean task.
At first i was puzzled by JK, for him never giving any clear answer. Just hinting. And asking to go deeper into the question. Also meanwhile he says "we are having a conversation, you and i" But clearly he is guiding the "conversation." I thought him kind of manipulative. But then i realized his way of theaching is ingenious. His repeating the same question, without answer. There is the answer. Because the moment he would say "this is it, here is your answer", like most of us do, then it is gone, it is not the answer. Then it is a word for thought to conceptualize.
I just found these talks with D Bohm. What a privilege this exists for free.
Trauma is involved in the defenses of ego's sense to preserve itself. All of life has trauma in life's survival to live, and not die.
You will learn a great deal if you don't fall asleep.
lol i love how he can't stop laughing hahaa aw well
When the silliness of the madness is seen, it is hard not to chuckle about it. It is just all so over the top ludicrous. I mean, humanity has this tendency to see itself as the be all end all on this planet, the intelligent species, yet, we have all this insanity, this madness, this chaos, disorder, destruction, all the suffering we are creating, making the world what it is... It is so ridiculous that you almost can't help but laugh sometimes. The violence and suffering, these things are not laughed at, but the insanity of humanity, the ridiculousness, the silliness of what is really going on. And it is not even based in any sort of real reality, not based in the really real at all. Incredible and absurd.
The "system" is similar to what ACIM calls the "classroom".
I don't think man prefers war over pease. He wants to end it, because there is no meaning to live in it.
The only way to follow Bohm's approach is also to realize that we still not only lack the faculty to convincingly unify all the physics but, even more fundamentally, we are completely incapable to unify physics with general metaphysics.
Hold your hand in your pants intentionally at the 35th minute to see the reaction of those around him. And one of the audience notices this and reacts as such. So the point is, what he's trying to show is the reaction of thoughts gathered unconsciously but ready to act.
Si pueden por favor traducir a español 🙏
I'm not sure but I'm pretty confident that the capslock key is part of the system. Let me test that proposition. Yep. There it is on my keyboard.
David Bohm died in 1992. - for those who clearly think he's still about!
I think it's better if just David Bohm is talking. When he's talking there's a moving towards some insight, but when others go in the tone changes to a kind of humanistic psychotherapy. Even he shows some slight impatience with them as it goes along. No offence to the participants.
I'll be moving along to the Saturday sessions now.
Primus.
Yes but what's inside David is not. So you have to follow the projection to it's source. None of this is easy even listening to his attempt to convey his thoughts/ideas is a struggle. This is some heavy stuff. It takes time, patience, persistence. struggle. It's life. What life is supposed to be about at least for those who understand. Coherence instead of dissonance. It's the same idea his protege Einstein said "You can't solve a problem using the same thinking that caused the problem".
Noam Chomsky sounds like Bill Clinton...and yea, david bohm talks me to sleep too lol
Hulk Hogan may be more to your liking (smile).
Socio - Eco - Eso - UFO - Asylum