As always, I encourage everyone to speak up with their opinion especially if it differs from mine or the vast majority of others. This is a platform where all are allowed to speak their mind and let their opinions be made known. However, hate speech will not be tolerated on the channel. If you disagree fundamentally with what is stated in the video, then please let yourself be heard, but do so in a civil way.
I love that Transformers (especially One) seems like a subversion of “revolution” trope. Most of the stories, like Star Wars and Hunger Games, the overthrowing of old regime actually occurred by the end of the story and then the skirmishes that came after were solved quickly but in case of TF, the overthrow is just the beginning. The main meat of the story is about the fallout thanks to the power vacuum. For a story about alien robots, it depicted politics and revolution very realistically. It’s hard and many things could go wrong like opening a pandora box.
I like the fact the transformers are mechanical characters lets them explore topics and themes you couldn’t normally do with human characters. Helps allow for more depth in transformer stories.
Transformers are immortal sentient balls of energy (Sparks) inside giant robot bodies (similarly to how we humans are brains piloting flesh and bone mechs around). They are written to be very similar to us despite being an alien species, but the one thing they have which we don't have is immortality, and I think it's a highly unexplored concept. Every Transformers character ranges from being millions of years old to at least thousands of years old. The youngest Transformers are Terrans, who are born on Earth, and Micromasters, who are the latest evolution of Transformers to a smaller size to conserve Energon. All of these are concepts that should be explored in greater detail, especially when it comes to a character like Shockwave, who had a few million years of pure solitude and peace to work on his mad science projects, but these concepts are mostly overlooked for the preference of dumbing Transformers stories down because they are meant for a younger audience or something. You can have robots mindlessly punching each other and the philosophical explorations of the point of life and existence within the same story as long as effort is put into writing it well.
I like when TFs are alien, but I've never seen it as a way to dismiss their more human aspects, I think it gives us new ways to explore human aspects thought a different perspective if that makes sense. Like, what is gender to *them*, and how does it relate to what gender is to *us*. (This is if we even have to go there, sometimes it doesn't have to have a explanation why TFs feel love, are girls, turn into girls, or represent neurodivergence /something they always had, even in crude forms)
Thats why theres a "More than meets the EYE" tag line in the franchise name. Its not just good robot fight evil robot, theres more to it than that. Edit: To any TF fan before you read the reboot (Skybound) read the IDW run first because they really pushed the limits of "More than meets the Eye". To put it simply: Some Decepticons found happiness and turned good. Autobots having a suicide squad and Optimus compromising some of his principles just to maintain peace after the war.
I love stories that center on robots with emotions. When they're done right, being able to ask. "What does it mean to be human, what does it mean to feel, to love and what lays inside of our hearts.
the rebooted idw story seemed interesting I always wondered what would happen if this universe got it's time to breathe instead of wrapping it up so quickly
Freedom and Autonomy are the rights of all sentient beings, the right to make your own decisions and shape your own future. Wants, hopes, dreams, desires and the will to have freedom of choice. These are all inherently human feelings, something that a traditional robot would never have. I feel like, while yes Cybertronians are made of metal and machinery, they have an intrinsic similarity to living beings.
What made transformers stick with me over the years was that human aspect to them. And how over time, the lore in later stories has made them resemble us in other ways. They have a god, a soul, an ecosystem, they're "born" from their planet rather than simply built/programmed. Even the cause of the war has been tied to very human feelings and problems we've had & fear having.
I’ve always found these bots more human and unique then most growing up, when my kick for the franchise came back after almost a decade it became way more clear to me these characters have souls and life in every single one of them. The humanity aspect is what always interests me and is the reason I’m always excited for new characters to see how they can be portrayed which is why Geomotus or Anode & Lug are some of my favorites cuz they can be anchors for other people to connect with if the more board roster of characters aren’t clicking with them. After certain events in my life I was reconnected with my younger brother and we both showed each other our favorite series with mine being Transformers and I could always tell part of him wasn’t rly convinced with Cybertronians having souls or life. He’s not one for comics or the shows but he does find it interesting enough to let me ramble bout events and characteristics. Ever since I dragged him to watch TF: One I can tell his eyes have been opened and I can see now he finds comfort knowing who he is has representation from IDW Comics story beats and relationships.
It’s like a mirror of human nature, it’s just that simple. Either light, heavy, dark, dry or childish, simple or complex etc. there is an iteration for every walk or season to of life.
I'd like some more series to really touch on what Lifespan means for cybertronians. As a species they age at such a slow rate, and most series rarely touch on how they view humans form the lens of impermanence. What does someone like Bumblebee, the "kid" of the autobots, feel about the knowledge that he will outlive every human he'll ever meet. Most cybertronians are older than human civilization itself. I like how in the Skybound, they've introduced Optimus being made aware of how fragile and temporary organic life is, and I hope the series goes into that further. The cybertronian war should feel uncomfortable the in the context of a battlefield like Earth populated by a species younger than the war itself.
Aging Cybertronians is something for sure we need to see more of. People might argue and say that that is "too human". But even machines break down overtime.
Honestly, I’m just waiting for the day when a Transformers continuity has Starscream and Skyfire as a legitimate couple and nothing bad happens to break them up
Growing up the ability to change your form and hide from the people who hated you touched me even if at 5 years old I didn't understand it in 1984. There are so many takes on them you can always find one that speaks to you. I was on board with almost everything in this video other than the uncomfortable line maybe I didn't understand the point but it felt like it was shaming people for being put off( ok other than the ass hats who cry about everything). Someone can be uncomfortable about something and learn about it and grow as a person. The flip side of the coin is that a person can be uncomfortable about something and save their life. It's just learning the defense. All in all a pretty good video. I hope this finds you well and having a wonderful day.
I seen alot movie causals complain about Transformers being more human. Things like them having beards or accents. I mean, this is pretty normal in most Transformers shows. I get it's popular to hate on Micheal Bay but some stuff is pretty common in the overall franchise.
This is why I love Transformers. Although my toy collection is so limited, the fact that they are given human traits is why I love Transformers. Now, I haven't completed the 2019 series by IDW, but I don't think I've missed anything.
I really do love the new takes and ideas on display in IDW 2/2019 but alot of these concepts aren't given enough time to breathe or aren't nearly fleshed out enough Through no fault of their own since they were losing tbe license But like BEE IS A CON (is over in like 3 issues) Bees SON Cyclonus seeing the ghosts of his fallen friends (No conclusion) Skywarps death (A flipnote) Cosmos and Blastoffs relationship (Half an issue and a few pannels) OPTIMUS HAS A MOM (Didnt get to see almost any of her and his relationship) And an ending that just like fall of cybertron ends with the ark leaving cybertron with the decepticons close behind (Also the guy with the X name thats super hard to pronounce who can steal 3 bodies who was a quintasons experiment that was so strong it created a whole WAR) And sooo many cool alien species co existing on cybertron with the transformers Its more frustration with hasbro
I have a feeling that some people got the impression that Transformers are not “human” thanks to Bayformers. Just look at amount of war crimes committed in these movies. Making the characters who got brutally murdered the robots helped separate the audience from being disturbed by what happened with the mentality of “They are just robots. Who cares?”. Stuffs that Optimus did would have been considered very psychotic and got R or NC-17 rated if it was done by human to human. And to be fair, the human characters in Bayverse aren’t even acting like human with character growth either.
I do think that its severely under explored and appreciated though the aspects of transformers that are NOT human as well, the fact that they live for literally millions of years in some continuities, the cybertronian wars lasted for eight million years themselves in G1. Most of the characters are older than that.
@@nont18411 I think why many (mostly in cartoon) are forgetting that transformers are sentient living beings that happen look like robot. Is well, they are not in they own planet. I meant sure as viewers we very aware what transformers are , but humans in media, they still warping their head with concept of cybertron. I meant sure they interact with transformers but I believe when they heard alien word, the first thing they think will be 'ET' or green being, and let's not forget that about 'ai that can thinking self take over world' , so.... I think they still confuse and not really accept that cybertron peoples are like human in a sence, they have they won biology and all
I mostly didn't like 2019 because they used toys as art references. Looking back now it's more charming than I gave it credit for but at the time it just felt kind of lame and uninteresting.
The art style was a turnoff for me at first for sure. I did appreciate the fact that they didn't change character model every other issue (looking at you IDW 2005). But even then, having some Siege modeled characters stand next to... whatever Bumblebee was supposed to be with his 2 Ton Brick Shoulders was always odd
the WOKE MOB are trying to STEAL my BOY ROBOTS and make them GAY really though, thank you for featuring me, and thank you for making a video on this topic. diversity is crucial, and it makes us othered folk feel very seen🫶🏼
I've always struggled when I've seen discourse about how Transformers sometimes seem "too human" and not "alien" enough. As both you and Diaclona get at, they've always been that way. Not to discount people's personal preferences, but I just have a hard time following the argument about them being too human-like sometimes. I've been brainstorming and making notes on this idea since I started my channel in anticipation of how I wanted to handle it when I eventually got to Spotlight: Arcee, an issue that I've been dreading covering from the very beginning, to be perfectly honest. So I found this video to be encouraging for taking the task on as well as giving me plenty to chew on. Great work to you both! 🎉
To be honest i feel like mostly tf media look like forgetting that cyberetron is sentient living being or alien, that happen to be look like robot. And well while g1 like mixed 'they are just robot -they are living beings' . I feel the rest forget about cybertron are having they own biology, that may and not human can understand. And well weirdly human that knowing mechine look very east understand cybertron. And to be honest, bay is top of list that manage giving vibe cybertron are living beings that happen to be look like robot
I like it more when transformers feel alien i find it more interesting when they don't think like humans becouse i like it when we learn about in the way we learn about animals, but i don't mind when they have human aspects but i prefer when they still few more alien than human ( also sorry if the grammar is bad )
Alright but they were still back from the very beginning written like people with souls arguing otherwise that they never had it to begin with is untrue in the first place.
Same, its part of why I like a lot of G1/Marvel Transformers stuff. You can still relate to them while understanding that their struggles are different. I also never quite liked the space magic god aspect. Its easy to argue someone is alive if god says they are. But what does it mean to be alive when every piece of you is artificially constructed? Kind of like the Ghost in the Shell philosophy. I could still see a Primus/Unicron kind of thing, but there not ancient beings from time and space. It always makes the world building feel small when the fate of the universe rests solely on one species. Just drop the god part, heck controversially I really like Primacron. He's still a dude, he's just the most technologically advanced thing next to the Vok.
This is a great and timely video about Transformers, because it covers an idea I've been discussing recently with my friends about Transformers One: that it was so good and so refreshing after years of the Bayverse movies, because it actually took the time to treat the Transformers like PEOPLE. There's definitely interest to be had in stories that explore the nature of non-human characters in a way that attempts to keep them as far from humanity as possible; one of my other favorite films is Arrival (2016), whose premise regards communicating with alien life forms that are so distinctly non-human, that to learn how to understand their language essentially alters a human's way of thinking and perceiving reality. But there's a limit to how far we can take the idea of "non-humanness" in our creativity, because we are human, and that will be reflected in any works that we create. And it's worth questioning whether a series that was originally founded, and to this day remains in service of Selling Toys must bear the burden of telling stories that are so strictly required to adhere to a rule that an alien MUST ALWAYS perfectly behave as something not human. Ultimately, I agree with Diaclona's response: what's the REAL problem- that a race of alien robots acts like humans sometimes, or that the human behaviors they sometimes display are just the human behaviors they don't like to experience in the real human world to begin with? It reminds me of the question that was raised about the idea of Transformers loving eachother, in the wake of IDW's comics telling stories about couples like Tailgate and Cyclonus, Drift and Ratchet, Chromedome and Rewind. We as an audience have been perfectly able to accept the idea of Transformers hating eachother: the series was created with that behavior from the very beginning. Why, then, would it be so "unrealistic" for them to love each other? If they can have such strong feelings that would drive them to war and attempt to destroy one another, why wouldn't they also have the feelings that lead them to care about one another, and want to remain close to each other? Why do they have to have a "canonically feasible reason" to want to spend their lives with each other exclusively? Why do they have to have an in-universe justification to want to experience the good feelings that come from closeness, friendship, and love? Or is it just the fact that the Transformers characters so heavily skew towards masculine coding that if stories more regularly focused on love, they would inevitably end up dealing with two characters who read to the audience as guys doing the loving? Is it really love as a "human behavior" that's the problem, or that the love is going to be mostly between characters who've been canonically referred to as "he" for the past 40 years?
IDW and James Roberts completely changed my idea of what Transformers could be. I have not read the 2019 run but will now. Good video! Also, Budianski was putting human attributes in the bios on day one. Heck, even Jim Shooter started humanizing them when he started naming them. (Is that too much name dropping? I honestly don’t know.)
There’s nothing wrong when artists and writers put themselves in stories with non human creatures, and I think it’s great they have a way to express themselves through art! But I’m always fascinated when it gets reversed. When you, as the reader and observer, cannot fully comprehend someone else’s thinking or culture, it at least in my opinion makes for a more interesting experience since you have to expand and move past your own sometimes narrow opinions and perspectives and learn how to understand someone else’s world even though you yourself haven’t experienced what they have or even have the same emotions as they might. The idea of alien life has always excited me though I completely understand why it’s so hard to write since we can only experience certain limited emotions and concepts, it is undeniably difficult to imagine how something from another world would think or experience existence.
I totally forgot IDW rebooted the comics before they lost the rights to publish. (I'm still not caught up on IDW) but I remember hearing they were starting over and being so frustrated because I hadn't finished the previous run. Gunna have to go back and read them
This whole idea was how I even discovered I had autism; I had always dealt with certain problems, problems that felt as though I was the only who had them, them at some point after starting college I found a video taken about a particular Transformers Character. The character was Transmutate, and specifically it was when they talked about the BW Uprising version of the character; as they talked more about in depth about this version of the character I realized, there were oddly a lot of similarities between how this version of Transmutate was written…and me. Noticing so many similarities I decided to talk to an actual specialist to get a diagnosis, and I found out I ABSOLUTELY was on the spectrum. It felt so comforting knowing I wasn’t the only one struggling this way, and even happier that someone had actually written a story with a character like me in a franchise I love.
Can’t really say this fits with the topic of the video but 2 characters I wanna mention are Hound and Breakdown who both wish to be humans for different reasons, Hound sees the good and beauty of the world and wishes he can experience many different earth cultures but it’s difficult cause he like 15 feet tall and can’t eat human food and do much human things, Breakdown as some may know is a pretty shy and paranoid person is general that a lot of people can relate with, he sometimes wishes he was human so he can blend in with the rest of society and live in peace(be aware G1 Breakdown never lived on Cybertron)
our human art is a mirror of us, both 1:1 or inverted, as what we can conceptualize as alien is also based on a human perspective…… i love looking at transformers as what they say about us and how we understand ourselves and others, what we think is interesting weird scary sad funny, familiar or otherworldly. there’s a lot one can say in a fictional universe of vehicle robot aliens about human life
Exactly! Yes, I just as much as the next person love the Cybertonians being "alien" and seeing new ideas. But, all ideas come from humanity really, and so, we can find traces of ourselves in most everything.
Isn't the entire point of the transformers coming to earth and the autobots allying with humans to point out how similar they are (obviously bc they're written by humans) to humans as a species and characters. They've always been cybertronians, yes, but outside of shockwave they've always had HUMANITY.
As someone that personally feels romance isn’t really something that should be around Cybertronians, I find it more interesting when they have to learn of the concept from Humans as the idea of “romance” is foreign to them. Now that isn’t to say they shouldn’t have close relationships, but I feel like we tend to forget that people have close relationships without them being romantic, and that’s what I like to explore about Transformers. But in general, yes they are meant to feel fairly human and meant to have many, if not most of the feelings we have. It’s a core aspect of the series - why does Megatron have the ambition to conquer Cybertron without emotion? There has been no series where TF series where the characters have no emotion and are just alien. But having small aspects that are alien makes them more interesting to me rather than humans with metal shells instead. Like how does it feel to have a body or alt mode that doesn’t feel right? How easy or hard is it to transfer your spark and get a new body? Their hopes, dreams, aspirations and more. That is what makes Transformers fun. I also agree in general representation 100% needs to be handled where it supports the story and isn’t overtaking the story. Great representation builds a story up and helps the story become better, bad representation is either removing a character because you don’t want to write them, or having the entire story praising the represented character and making them so perfect and the world basically bends around the represented character’s existence. That is bad. I never mind a well represented character, and I wish there was more of them tbh.
As a ( does it for fun ) writer I can say I like to keep and take my time with my stories, I do tend to fall in the story getting “boring” thing 😅😅. ,I really hope (as a teenager) that we get more transformers with coming of age stories, transformers has been a big part of my life , I really wish that one day in some pice of media we can get a cybertronian struggle with finding who they are, having trouble with making friends and trying to fit in , most of the time “teenage” cybertronian are depicted as “childish” or “in need of care” or how can I say it? “They are not taken seriously like the “adult characters” I do know that some teen act like this but for me ? I would to see a teen transformers just trying to understand and discover themselves, to find a place,. Ever since I discovered your Chanel I been enjoying it deeply keep going !!
Age is for sure something I think the franchise needs to explore more of. If not the idea of a Cybertronian aging to a point of death, but rather, the idea of a new Cybertronian coming into the world. I do believe it is something Earth Spark dives into, but I have yet to watch the show and so cannot speak on it.
Optimus should've been in his proper Siege body rather than the Galaxy Upgrade one Would've matched the show and general branding of the time The only reason to have him in the GU body was in case he got the namesake super mode, which never happened Didn't help with that design generally looking bad, as if Prime had a dad bod
I will pull from G1. Ready? No you are not.😆😆😆 Red Alert was mentally ill and severely codependent. He straight up has "Schizoaffective Disorder," and constantly needs Inferno by his side. Then there's Chromia & Ironhide. Optimus & Elita. Powerglide, Moonracer, and Astoria. Love triangle? Inferno, Firestar, and...Red Alert? Friends, or polygamorous? Of course, 80s kid's cartoon, so such subject matter would not have been intended, but It Is So THERE. 😆😆😆 Now, let's add War PTSD in the form of Huffer's pessimism, and Gears's constantly agitated state. Two little Minibots with "Major Depressive Disorder!" Cliffjumper who overcompensates by being overly aggressive and is suspicious of his fellow Autobots. Can we say "Betrayal Trauma?" Phobias! Silerbolt, who's afraid of heights. Broadside , who's both acrophobic and hydrophobic!😳 Oh, and did I mention "Betrayal Trauma?" Omega Supreme. 😐 After his besties, the Constructicons got "Robo Smashed" aka forcibly reprogrammed, they assaulted Omega Supreme and tried to get him "Robo Smashed". TRAUMA. Aaand "Super God Master Force " Humans that literally become Transformers and Transformers that literally become Humans.
I don’t see being a person as being human, sure in our reality it’s basically the only example, but in fiction you don’t need to be human to display emotions, fears, desires, things humans would. It’s rather silly that some people just don’t want them in transformers, because at that point, it would just be watching automated robots fight eachother, with no stakes or emotion
oh god if they did not have the concept of humanity as just be robots they would not be interesting They were interesting cause they are sentient Transformers 1 shows even the humanity of even Megatron and he was likable for most of the movie But his evil was always there which Was sprinkled all over the movie as he descended to madness Yeah transformers do that they can descend to madness
As someone on the spectrum I can tell you there's no right or wrong way to represent it because it's a spectrum so everyone on it is going to be a little bit different so what represents one person might not represent another because we all have different personalities, backgrounds and experiences, what one likes or dislikes or what triggers or comforts them might be completely different for another, Just as long as they're not promoting any harmful stereotype or listening to hate groups like Autism $peaks because they don't speak for us.
Thank you for speaking up! I was worried when speaking about Geomotus because as a character, I love him. But as a concept, I was not sure exactly how accurate he was to people who are on the spectrum. I have a family member who is on the spectrum, but they are nothing like Geomotus. Being able to represent different people on the spectrum is important, just as long as it isn't done with ill intentions.
Robots can be personified and can have human attributes/personalities. I'm not gonna argue with that. But, I've never been a fan of Transformers having a supernatural aspect to them. I love Beast Wars, but the Spark was a dumb addition/retcon to the franchise. When you just make them metal humans, then you lose an aspect of what makes them a robot. When Transformers gained a soul, their bodies were quickly viewed as being something biological, which meant all of the powers/abilities and the extent to which you could go all out on what the race is capable of is now all tied down to genetics and McGuffins. The early Marvel comics made it clear that Transformer and human life are not the same. (See issues 3-10) In-universe, the Transformers war has always been an arms race. New soldiers being built stronger, with new abilities, or with partner robots. You can't do that when everybody's "born", unless you go into the moral dilemma of "playing God", which doesn't exist if you stick with "well, they're robots, so we can just build more powerful bots to take out the enemy." As far as IDW2 is concerned, it's goose was cooked right from the start. There was no way that they were gonna make something that would top IDW1, and they proved it. Half of those comics were just bots talking endlessly, and the only good story to come out of it was the spotlight spinoff on the Constructicons. That 4-5 issue run was the best piece of media in years that showed the dynamic of that group as detailed on their original tech specs. IDW2 could have been much better if it had more writing like that imo.
I love G1 Scavenger and Dead End Scavenger is a low self-esteem loser that tries his best to impress others Dead End is a gloomy nihilist that wants to look his best
@@DeltaTrion more of an evolution. Your average reboot just cannibalizes what came before and ignores the rest. Beast Wars actually carries on the legacy of what came before and develops it further. Continuing the story rather than just endlessly recycling.
@ again, story wise yes, but as a whole more of a restart for the brand. Just as RiD (2015) was a continuation of TFP (whether we like it or not) it did bring a new refreshed look to the brand.
It's an early and well-done example of a soft reboot, a continuation that brings in old and new status quo to tell a new story Love Beast Wars, the dialog writing is pure gold
@@DeltaTrion You're confusing story with toyline, lol. A reboot effects the story, not the toyline. Prime:RiD is not a reboot of Prime. It's toys DID have a new style tho'. Much as Beast Machines is not a reboot of Beast Wars but it did have a VERY different art style and story themes. These things are not the same.
And this, frankly, is why I fell off of Skybound's Transformers. To me, they displayed little to no interest in humanizing the cybertronian characters. Prime gets some moments, sure. But the Decepticons are shallow caricatures and the supporting Autobots aren't much better. Skybound is so much more interested in violence and shock than characters, and it just doesn't work for me at all.
I would disagree with you there actually. I think Optimus is very humanized, yes, but what about Cliffjumper and his overwhelming sense of survivors guilt? Jetfire loosing his sight and wondering why he is alive? Soundwave loosing his honor and Thundercracker struggling with the realization that he might be on the wrong side of the war? And what they're doing with Starscream in Issues 13 and 14? I would encourage you to take a deeper look. Or even, watch some of my content on the series.
Transformers have always BLATANTLY been just giant people. They act and talk and behave and are presented as people. They have feelings which are blatantly human in their scope and presentation and are self aware just as humans. They literally have two arms and two legs and faces with noses and eyes and mouths. This is undeniable to the extent that doesn't even need to be spoken of or pointed out. And in fact it wasn't. For decades. In fact the original cartoon even clearly portrayed that Transformers experience heteronormative love and attraction towards each other and other species AND that they have specific genders. The female Autobots, anyone? But rhen suddenly after being a fact of the franchise since the early '80s and represented in virtually every single iteration of the franchise, the idea that Transformers had gender and feel love just wasn't okay and just "Made no sense." Why? Because More Than Meets the Eye presented us with two male coded characters that were in a romantic relationship. That's all it ever was. Just homophobia. Just simple prejudice.
As always, I encourage everyone to speak up with their opinion especially if it differs from mine or the vast majority of others. This is a platform where all are allowed to speak their mind and let their opinions be made known. However, hate speech will not be tolerated on the channel. If you disagree fundamentally with what is stated in the video, then please let yourself be heard, but do so in a civil way.
I love that Transformers (especially One) seems like a subversion of “revolution” trope. Most of the stories, like Star Wars and Hunger Games, the overthrowing of old regime actually occurred by the end of the story and then the skirmishes that came after were solved quickly but in case of TF, the overthrow is just the beginning. The main meat of the story is about the fallout thanks to the power vacuum. For a story about alien robots, it depicted politics and revolution very realistically. It’s hard and many things could go wrong like opening a pandora box.
I like the fact the transformers are mechanical characters lets them explore topics and themes you couldn’t normally do with human characters. Helps allow for more depth in transformer stories.
Transformers are immortal sentient balls of energy (Sparks) inside giant robot bodies (similarly to how we humans are brains piloting flesh and bone mechs around). They are written to be very similar to us despite being an alien species, but the one thing they have which we don't have is immortality, and I think it's a highly unexplored concept. Every Transformers character ranges from being millions of years old to at least thousands of years old. The youngest Transformers are Terrans, who are born on Earth, and Micromasters, who are the latest evolution of Transformers to a smaller size to conserve Energon. All of these are concepts that should be explored in greater detail, especially when it comes to a character like Shockwave, who had a few million years of pure solitude and peace to work on his mad science projects, but these concepts are mostly overlooked for the preference of dumbing Transformers stories down because they are meant for a younger audience or something. You can have robots mindlessly punching each other and the philosophical explorations of the point of life and existence within the same story as long as effort is put into writing it well.
@@dkkanofkash8798agreed. Or even go into what really is a Cybertronian lifespan? That would be fascinating too.
Sure, the Transformers aren't human. But they *are* PEOPLE. People with thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams, fears, goals, the list goes on.
And basketball skills...
I like when TFs are alien, but I've never seen it as a way to dismiss their more human aspects, I think it gives us new ways to explore human aspects thought a different perspective if that makes sense. Like, what is gender to *them*, and how does it relate to what gender is to *us*.
(This is if we even have to go there, sometimes it doesn't have to have a explanation why TFs feel love, are girls, turn into girls, or represent neurodivergence /something they always had, even in crude forms)
Thats why theres a "More than meets the EYE" tag line in the franchise name. Its not just good robot fight evil robot, theres more to it than that.
Edit: To any TF fan before you read the reboot (Skybound) read the IDW run first because they really pushed the limits of "More than meets the Eye". To put it simply: Some Decepticons found happiness and turned good. Autobots having a suicide squad and Optimus compromising some of his principles just to maintain peace after the war.
I love stories that center on robots with emotions. When they're done right, being able to ask. "What does it mean to be human, what does it mean to feel, to love and what lays inside of our hearts.
the rebooted idw story seemed interesting I always wondered what would happen if this universe got it's time to breathe instead of wrapping it up so quickly
They really did start to hit their stride in Transformers: Galaxies. Sad to see those ideas were never fully realized.
Freedom and Autonomy are the rights of all sentient beings, the right to make your own decisions and shape your own future. Wants, hopes, dreams, desires and the will to have freedom of choice. These are all inherently human feelings, something that a traditional robot would never have. I feel like, while yes Cybertronians are made of metal and machinery, they have an intrinsic similarity to living beings.
What made transformers stick with me over the years was that human aspect to them. And how over time, the lore in later stories has made them resemble us in other ways.
They have a god, a soul, an ecosystem, they're "born" from their planet rather than simply built/programmed. Even the cause of the war has been tied to very human feelings and problems we've had & fear having.
I’ve always found these bots more human and unique then most growing up, when my kick for the franchise came back after almost a decade it became way more clear to me these characters have souls and life in every single one of them. The humanity aspect is what always interests me and is the reason I’m always excited for new characters to see how they can be portrayed which is why Geomotus or Anode & Lug are some of my favorites cuz they can be anchors for other people to connect with if the more board roster of characters aren’t clicking with them.
After certain events in my life I was reconnected with my younger brother and we both showed each other our favorite series with mine being Transformers and I could always tell part of him wasn’t rly convinced with Cybertronians having souls or life. He’s not one for comics or the shows but he does find it interesting enough to let me ramble bout events and characteristics. Ever since I dragged him to watch TF: One I can tell his eyes have been opened and I can see now he finds comfort knowing who he is has representation from IDW Comics story beats and relationships.
Thank you for the shoutout! And great analysis video
As an Autistic guy, Geomotus is my favorite Transformer
It’s like a mirror of human nature, it’s just that simple.
Either light, heavy, dark, dry or childish, simple or complex etc. there is an iteration for every walk or season to of life.
I'd like some more series to really touch on what Lifespan means for cybertronians. As a species they age at such a slow rate, and most series rarely touch on how they view humans form the lens of impermanence. What does someone like Bumblebee, the "kid" of the autobots, feel about the knowledge that he will outlive every human he'll ever meet. Most cybertronians are older than human civilization itself. I like how in the Skybound, they've introduced Optimus being made aware of how fragile and temporary organic life is, and I hope the series goes into that further. The cybertronian war should feel uncomfortable the in the context of a battlefield like Earth populated by a species younger than the war itself.
Aging Cybertronians is something for sure we need to see more of. People might argue and say that that is "too human". But even machines break down overtime.
Honestly, I’m just waiting for the day when a Transformers continuity has Starscream and Skyfire as a legitimate couple and nothing bad happens to break them up
Impossible Challenge sadly.
they're not a couple lmao
@@mopmop4862Well yea that’s why they’re waiting for them to be a couple
@@asign5515 they’re never going to be a couple. they’re just friends
Yes! This!! Only disagreement I have is that I think the drama that could come from Jetfire defecting to the Autobots is too good to ignore
I love cybertronians being human like mentally but are pretty much in bodies of metal. Reminds me of the lilims from va11halla
Growing up the ability to change your form and hide from the people who hated you touched me even if at 5 years old I didn't understand it in 1984. There are so many takes on them you can always find one that speaks to you. I was on board with almost everything in this video other than the uncomfortable line maybe I didn't understand the point but it felt like it was shaming people for being put off( ok other than the ass hats who cry about everything). Someone can be uncomfortable about something and learn about it and grow as a person. The flip side of the coin is that a person can be uncomfortable about something and save their life. It's just learning the defense. All in all a pretty good video. I hope this finds you well and having a wonderful day.
I seen alot movie causals complain about Transformers being more human. Things like them having beards or accents. I mean, this is pretty normal in most Transformers shows. I get it's popular to hate on Micheal Bay but some stuff is pretty common in the overall franchise.
This is why I love Transformers. Although my toy collection is so limited, the fact that they are given human traits is why I love Transformers. Now, I haven't completed the 2019 series by IDW, but I don't think I've missed anything.
@@MutantsInDisguise there are for sure some interesting ideas done in IDW 2019, and while I do enjoy it, I don’t think skipping it means you miss out
I really do love the new takes and ideas on display in IDW 2/2019 but alot of these concepts aren't given enough time to breathe or aren't nearly fleshed out enough
Through no fault of their own since they were losing tbe license
But like
BEE IS A CON
(is over in like 3 issues)
Bees SON
Cyclonus seeing the ghosts of his fallen friends
(No conclusion)
Skywarps death
(A flipnote)
Cosmos and Blastoffs relationship
(Half an issue and a few pannels)
OPTIMUS HAS A MOM
(Didnt get to see almost any of her and his relationship)
And an ending that just like fall of cybertron ends with the ark leaving cybertron with the decepticons close behind
(Also the guy with the X name thats super hard to pronounce who can steal 3 bodies who was a quintasons experiment that was so strong it created a whole WAR)
And sooo many cool alien species co existing on cybertron with the transformers
Its more frustration with hasbro
I have a feeling that some people got the impression that Transformers are not “human” thanks to Bayformers.
Just look at amount of war crimes committed in these movies. Making the characters who got brutally murdered the robots helped separate the audience from being disturbed by what happened with the mentality of “They are just robots. Who cares?”. Stuffs that Optimus did would have been considered very psychotic and got R or NC-17 rated if it was done by human to human.
And to be fair, the human characters in Bayverse aren’t even acting like human with character growth either.
I do think that its severely under explored and appreciated though the aspects of transformers that are NOT human as well, the fact that they live for literally millions of years in some continuities, the cybertronian wars lasted for eight million years themselves in G1. Most of the characters are older than that.
@@nont18411 I think why many (mostly in cartoon) are forgetting that transformers are sentient living beings that happen look like robot. Is well, they are not in they own planet. I meant sure as viewers we very aware what transformers are , but humans in media, they still warping their head with concept of cybertron.
I meant sure they interact with transformers but I believe when they heard alien word, the first thing they think will be 'ET' or green being, and let's not forget that about 'ai that can thinking self take over world' , so.... I think they still confuse and not really accept that cybertron peoples are like human in a sence, they have they won biology and all
I mostly didn't like 2019 because they used toys as art references. Looking back now it's more charming than I gave it credit for but at the time it just felt kind of lame and uninteresting.
The art style was a turnoff for me at first for sure. I did appreciate the fact that they didn't change character model every other issue (looking at you IDW 2005). But even then, having some Siege modeled characters stand next to... whatever Bumblebee was supposed to be with his 2 Ton Brick Shoulders was always odd
the WOKE MOB are trying to STEAL my BOY ROBOTS and make them GAY
really though, thank you for featuring me, and thank you for making a video on this topic. diversity is crucial, and it makes us othered folk feel very seen🫶🏼
I've always struggled when I've seen discourse about how Transformers sometimes seem "too human" and not "alien" enough. As both you and Diaclona get at, they've always been that way. Not to discount people's personal preferences, but I just have a hard time following the argument about them being too human-like sometimes.
I've been brainstorming and making notes on this idea since I started my channel in anticipation of how I wanted to handle it when I eventually got to Spotlight: Arcee, an issue that I've been dreading covering from the very beginning, to be perfectly honest. So I found this video to be encouraging for taking the task on as well as giving me plenty to chew on.
Great work to you both! 🎉
To be honest i feel like mostly tf media look like forgetting that cyberetron is sentient living being or alien, that happen to be look like robot.
And well while g1 like mixed 'they are just robot -they are living beings' . I feel the rest forget about cybertron are having they own biology, that may and not human can understand. And well weirdly human that knowing mechine look very east understand cybertron.
And to be honest, bay is top of list that manage giving vibe cybertron are living beings that happen to be look like robot
I like it more when transformers feel alien i find it more interesting when they don't think like humans becouse i like it when we learn about in the way we learn about animals, but i don't mind when they have human aspects but i prefer when they still few more alien than human ( also sorry if the grammar is bad )
Alright but they were still back from the very beginning written like people with souls arguing otherwise that they never had it to begin with is untrue in the first place.
Same, its part of why I like a lot of G1/Marvel Transformers stuff. You can still relate to them while understanding that their struggles are different. I also never quite liked the space magic god aspect. Its easy to argue someone is alive if god says they are. But what does it mean to be alive when every piece of you is artificially constructed? Kind of like the Ghost in the Shell philosophy.
I could still see a Primus/Unicron kind of thing, but there not ancient beings from time and space. It always makes the world building feel small when the fate of the universe rests solely on one species. Just drop the god part, heck controversially I really like Primacron. He's still a dude, he's just the most technologically advanced thing next to the Vok.
This is a great and timely video about Transformers, because it covers an idea I've been discussing recently with my friends about Transformers One: that it was so good and so refreshing after years of the Bayverse movies, because it actually took the time to treat the Transformers like PEOPLE. There's definitely interest to be had in stories that explore the nature of non-human characters in a way that attempts to keep them as far from humanity as possible; one of my other favorite films is Arrival (2016), whose premise regards communicating with alien life forms that are so distinctly non-human, that to learn how to understand their language essentially alters a human's way of thinking and perceiving reality. But there's a limit to how far we can take the idea of "non-humanness" in our creativity, because we are human, and that will be reflected in any works that we create. And it's worth questioning whether a series that was originally founded, and to this day remains in service of Selling Toys must bear the burden of telling stories that are so strictly required to adhere to a rule that an alien MUST ALWAYS perfectly behave as something not human.
Ultimately, I agree with Diaclona's response: what's the REAL problem- that a race of alien robots acts like humans sometimes, or that the human behaviors they sometimes display are just the human behaviors they don't like to experience in the real human world to begin with? It reminds me of the question that was raised about the idea of Transformers loving eachother, in the wake of IDW's comics telling stories about couples like Tailgate and Cyclonus, Drift and Ratchet, Chromedome and Rewind. We as an audience have been perfectly able to accept the idea of Transformers hating eachother: the series was created with that behavior from the very beginning. Why, then, would it be so "unrealistic" for them to love each other? If they can have such strong feelings that would drive them to war and attempt to destroy one another, why wouldn't they also have the feelings that lead them to care about one another, and want to remain close to each other? Why do they have to have a "canonically feasible reason" to want to spend their lives with each other exclusively? Why do they have to have an in-universe justification to want to experience the good feelings that come from closeness, friendship, and love? Or is it just the fact that the Transformers characters so heavily skew towards masculine coding that if stories more regularly focused on love, they would inevitably end up dealing with two characters who read to the audience as guys doing the loving? Is it really love as a "human behavior" that's the problem, or that the love is going to be mostly between characters who've been canonically referred to as "he" for the past 40 years?
IDW and James Roberts completely changed my idea of what Transformers could be. I have not read the 2019 run but will now. Good video!
Also, Budianski was putting human attributes in the bios on day one. Heck, even Jim Shooter started humanizing them when he started naming them. (Is that too much name dropping? I honestly don’t know.)
There’s nothing wrong when artists and writers put themselves in stories with non human creatures, and I think it’s great they have a way to express themselves through art! But I’m always fascinated when it gets reversed. When you, as the reader and observer, cannot fully comprehend someone else’s thinking or culture, it at least in my opinion makes for a more interesting experience since you have to expand and move past your own sometimes narrow opinions and perspectives and learn how to understand someone else’s world even though you yourself haven’t experienced what they have or even have the same emotions as they might.
The idea of alien life has always excited me though I completely understand why it’s so hard to write since we can only experience certain limited emotions and concepts, it is undeniably difficult to imagine how something from another world would think or experience existence.
Ever look through r/SpeculativeEvolution? One of my favorite places for alien life and its reactions or possible adaptations.
I totally forgot IDW rebooted the comics before they lost the rights to publish. (I'm still not caught up on IDW) but I remember hearing they were starting over and being so frustrated because I hadn't finished the previous run. Gunna have to go back and read them
I think the 2019 run is worthy of a read, when you have some extra time. I wouldn't say its a must though
This whole idea was how I even discovered I had autism; I had always dealt with certain problems, problems that felt as though I was the only who had them, them at some point after starting college I found a video taken about a particular Transformers Character.
The character was Transmutate, and specifically it was when they talked about the BW Uprising version of the character; as they talked more about in depth about this version of the character I realized, there were oddly a lot of similarities between how this version of Transmutate was written…and me.
Noticing so many similarities I decided to talk to an actual specialist to get a diagnosis, and I found out I ABSOLUTELY was on the spectrum.
It felt so comforting knowing I wasn’t the only one struggling this way, and even happier that someone had actually written a story with a character like me in a franchise I love.
This is why it's important for our media to feature all kinds of people.
Can’t really say this fits with the topic of the video but 2 characters I wanna mention are Hound and Breakdown who both wish to be humans for different reasons, Hound sees the good and beauty of the world and wishes he can experience many different earth cultures but it’s difficult cause he like 15 feet tall and can’t eat human food and do much human things, Breakdown as some may know is a pretty shy and paranoid person is general that a lot of people can relate with, he sometimes wishes he was human so he can blend in with the rest of society and live in peace(be aware G1 Breakdown never lived on Cybertron)
in fact, transformers are not the alien race, but just the race with the living emotion like to human emotion.
Speaking of TF characters written to represent neurodivergent folks, I still strongly feel that TFP Optimus is clearly on the autism spectrum.
My favorite stuff, is when cybertronian culture is shown. It shows they werent battle robots but just aliens hanging out with each other
Hanging out and playing basketball! Optimus has got some MOVES
our human art is a mirror of us, both 1:1 or inverted, as what we can conceptualize as alien is also based on a human perspective…… i love looking at transformers as what they say about us and how we understand ourselves and others, what we think is interesting weird scary sad funny, familiar or otherworldly. there’s a lot one can say in a fictional universe of vehicle robot aliens about human life
Exactly! Yes, I just as much as the next person love the Cybertonians being "alien" and seeing new ideas. But, all ideas come from humanity really, and so, we can find traces of ourselves in most everything.
Isn't the entire point of the transformers coming to earth and the autobots allying with humans to point out how similar they are (obviously bc they're written by humans) to humans as a species and characters. They've always been cybertronians, yes, but outside of shockwave they've always had HUMANITY.
As someone that personally feels romance isn’t really something that should be around Cybertronians, I find it more interesting when they have to learn of the concept from Humans as the idea of “romance” is foreign to them. Now that isn’t to say they shouldn’t have close relationships, but I feel like we tend to forget that people have close relationships without them being romantic, and that’s what I like to explore about Transformers.
But in general, yes they are meant to feel fairly human and meant to have many, if not most of the feelings we have. It’s a core aspect of the series - why does Megatron have the ambition to conquer Cybertron without emotion? There has been no series where TF series where the characters have no emotion and are just alien. But having small aspects that are alien makes them more interesting to me rather than humans with metal shells instead. Like how does it feel to have a body or alt mode that doesn’t feel right? How easy or hard is it to transfer your spark and get a new body? Their hopes, dreams, aspirations and more. That is what makes Transformers fun.
I also agree in general representation 100% needs to be handled where it supports the story and isn’t overtaking the story. Great representation builds a story up and helps the story become better, bad representation is either removing a character because you don’t want to write them, or having the entire story praising the represented character and making them so perfect and the world basically bends around the represented character’s existence. That is bad. I never mind a well represented character, and I wish there was more of them tbh.
As a ( does it for fun ) writer I can say I like to keep and take my time with my stories, I do tend to fall in the story getting “boring” thing 😅😅.
,I really hope (as a teenager) that we get more transformers with coming of age stories, transformers has been a big part of my life , I really wish that one day in some pice of media we can get a cybertronian struggle with finding who they are, having trouble with making friends and trying to fit in , most of the time “teenage” cybertronian are depicted as “childish” or “in need of care” or how can I say it? “They are not taken seriously like the “adult characters” I do know that some teen act like this but for me ? I would to see a teen transformers just trying to understand and discover themselves, to find a place,. Ever since I discovered your Chanel I been enjoying it deeply keep going !!
Age is for sure something I think the franchise needs to explore more of. If not the idea of a Cybertronian aging to a point of death, but rather, the idea of a new Cybertronian coming into the world. I do believe it is something Earth Spark dives into, but I have yet to watch the show and so cannot speak on it.
Optimus should've been in his proper Siege body rather than the Galaxy Upgrade one
Would've matched the show and general branding of the time
The only reason to have him in the GU body was in case he got the namesake super mode, which never happened
Didn't help with that design generally looking bad, as if Prime had a dad bod
Are we cybertronian all along?
well how differeennt are other sepcies fromus... .seriously how . in the absence of that knowledge what can we do
7:30 I don’t think anyone can understand what exactly is going on in that episode
I will pull from G1.
Ready?
No you are not.😆😆😆
Red Alert was mentally ill and severely codependent. He straight up has "Schizoaffective Disorder," and constantly needs Inferno by his side.
Then there's Chromia & Ironhide.
Optimus & Elita.
Powerglide, Moonracer, and Astoria. Love triangle?
Inferno, Firestar, and...Red Alert?
Friends, or polygamorous?
Of course, 80s kid's cartoon, so such subject matter would not have been intended, but It Is So THERE. 😆😆😆
Now, let's add War PTSD in the form of Huffer's pessimism, and Gears's constantly agitated state. Two little Minibots with "Major Depressive Disorder!" Cliffjumper who overcompensates by being overly aggressive and is suspicious of his fellow Autobots. Can we say "Betrayal Trauma?"
Phobias!
Silerbolt, who's afraid of heights.
Broadside , who's both acrophobic and hydrophobic!😳
Oh, and did I mention "Betrayal Trauma?" Omega Supreme. 😐
After his besties, the Constructicons got "Robo Smashed" aka forcibly reprogrammed, they assaulted Omega Supreme and tried to get him "Robo Smashed". TRAUMA.
Aaand "Super God Master Force "
Humans that literally become Transformers and Transformers that literally become Humans.
They literally look like giant humans
I don’t see being a person as being human, sure in our reality it’s basically the only example, but in fiction you don’t need to be human to display emotions, fears, desires, things humans would. It’s rather silly that some people just don’t want them in transformers, because at that point, it would just be watching automated robots fight eachother, with no stakes or emotion
oh god if they did not have the concept of humanity as just be robots they would not be interesting They were interesting cause they are sentient Transformers 1 shows even the humanity of even Megatron and he was likable for most of the movie But his evil was always there which Was sprinkled all over the movie as he descended to madness Yeah transformers do that they can descend to madness
As someone on the spectrum I can tell you there's no right or wrong way to represent it because it's a spectrum so everyone on it is going to be a little bit different so what represents one person might not represent another because we all have different personalities, backgrounds and experiences, what one likes or dislikes or what triggers or comforts them might be completely different for another, Just as long as they're not promoting any harmful stereotype or listening to hate groups like Autism $peaks because they don't speak for us.
Thank you for speaking up! I was worried when speaking about Geomotus because as a character, I love him. But as a concept, I was not sure exactly how accurate he was to people who are on the spectrum. I have a family member who is on the spectrum, but they are nothing like Geomotus. Being able to represent different people on the spectrum is important, just as long as it isn't done with ill intentions.
@DeltaTrion Anytime, Love your videos keep up the amazing work.♥️
Robots can be personified and can have human attributes/personalities. I'm not gonna argue with that.
But, I've never been a fan of Transformers having a supernatural aspect to them. I love Beast Wars, but the Spark was a dumb addition/retcon to the franchise.
When you just make them metal humans, then you lose an aspect of what makes them a robot. When Transformers gained a soul, their bodies were quickly viewed as being something biological, which meant all of the powers/abilities and the extent to which you could go all out on what the race is capable of is now all tied down to genetics and McGuffins. The early Marvel comics made it clear that Transformer and human life are not the same. (See issues 3-10)
In-universe, the Transformers war has always been an arms race. New soldiers being built stronger, with new abilities, or with partner robots. You can't do that when everybody's "born", unless you go into the moral dilemma of "playing God", which doesn't exist if you stick with "well, they're robots, so we can just build more powerful bots to take out the enemy."
As far as IDW2 is concerned, it's goose was cooked right from the start. There was no way that they were gonna make something that would top IDW1, and they proved it. Half of those comics were just bots talking endlessly, and the only good story to come out of it was the spotlight spinoff on the Constructicons. That 4-5 issue run was the best piece of media in years that showed the dynamic of that group as detailed on their original tech specs. IDW2 could have been much better if it had more writing like that imo.
2:54 pic related?
I love G1 Scavenger and Dead End
Scavenger is a low self-esteem loser that tries his best to impress others
Dead End is a gloomy nihilist that wants to look his best
FEAT BESTIE???
Beast Wars isn't a reboot. It was a continuation.
Storywise yes. But, generally speaking, it was a reboot of what Transformers was. It was a shift to the paradigm. More of a spiritual reboot.
@@DeltaTrion more of an evolution. Your average reboot just cannibalizes what came before and ignores the rest. Beast Wars actually carries on the legacy of what came before and develops it further. Continuing the story rather than just endlessly recycling.
@ again, story wise yes, but as a whole more of a restart for the brand. Just as RiD (2015) was a continuation of TFP (whether we like it or not) it did bring a new refreshed look to the brand.
It's an early and well-done example of a soft reboot, a continuation that brings in old and new status quo to tell a new story
Love Beast Wars, the dialog writing is pure gold
@@DeltaTrion You're confusing story with toyline, lol. A reboot effects the story, not the toyline. Prime:RiD is not a reboot of Prime. It's toys DID have a new style tho'. Much as Beast Machines is not a reboot of Beast Wars but it did have a VERY different art style and story themes. These things are not the same.
Banger.
And this, frankly, is why I fell off of Skybound's Transformers. To me, they displayed little to no interest in humanizing the cybertronian characters. Prime gets some moments, sure. But the Decepticons are shallow caricatures and the supporting Autobots aren't much better.
Skybound is so much more interested in violence and shock than characters, and it just doesn't work for me at all.
I would disagree with you there actually. I think Optimus is very humanized, yes, but what about Cliffjumper and his overwhelming sense of survivors guilt? Jetfire loosing his sight and wondering why he is alive? Soundwave loosing his honor and Thundercracker struggling with the realization that he might be on the wrong side of the war? And what they're doing with Starscream in Issues 13 and 14? I would encourage you to take a deeper look. Or even, watch some of my content on the series.
I like to headcanon Wheeljack as autistic
Same bro
Transformers have always BLATANTLY been just giant people. They act and talk and behave and are presented as people. They have feelings which are blatantly human in their scope and presentation and are self aware just as humans. They literally have two arms and two legs and faces with noses and eyes and mouths. This is undeniable to the extent that doesn't even need to be spoken of or pointed out. And in fact it wasn't. For decades.
In fact the original cartoon even clearly portrayed that Transformers experience heteronormative love and attraction towards each other and other species AND that they have specific genders. The female Autobots, anyone?
But rhen suddenly after being a fact of the franchise since the early '80s and represented in virtually every single iteration of the franchise, the idea that Transformers had gender and feel love just wasn't okay and just "Made no sense."
Why? Because More Than Meets the Eye presented us with two male coded characters that were in a romantic relationship.
That's all it ever was. Just homophobia. Just simple prejudice.