Snyder pretty much recreated panels from 300 even trying to mimic Frank Miller's stylized art style and tried using a color pallette that matched Lynn Varley's colors.
10:48 - Fun fact: The battle of Thermopylae lasted three days. On the first day, only three Greek soldiers died, while the Persians lost a few thousands. It wasn't that Greek soldiers were braver or more capable, it was simply a matter of superior tactics. The Greeks used the phalanx and the bottlenecking of the pass, completely neutralising any advantage the Persians had.
It's fairly asinine to say they weren't braver or more capable. They were raised as warriors and trained since 7, and they were EAGER to die in battle.
@@Heroo01 I don't agree with your statement, this battle has turned into a legend and much of the information is greatly exaggerated. The famed agoge is a much later spartan training regime, mostly used to show off how "powerful" Sparta was. (see The Spartans: The World of the Warrior-heroes of Ancient Greece by Paul Anthony Cartledge and J. Ducat, Spartan Education: Youth and Society in the Classical Period). The entirety of this warrior class was also built on the excessive abuse and exploitation of slave labour to a much more significant degree than most other city-states (see S. Hodkinson, Property and Wealth in Classical Sparta). They truly weren't significantly more capable than the Persians but the Greek defence of 7-9000~ (not 300) was still remarkable, however, I wouldn't call it asinine to conclude that the Greeks were more capable, holding time chokepoints are really not that difficult in the ancient world (see Battle of the Persian Gate).
@@rayansharma2042 You’re ignoring some very key points in that assessment though 1) because everything was based in slave labor, the entire citizenship could be full-time warriors. It was literally impossible for them to have ring-rust and they considered their training harder than war 2) if anything their ultra-strict discipline ended up weakening them. The way the Agoge worked GREATLY encourage the kinds of tactics you would find in guerrilla warfare. They’d have been experts in a skirmish yet they were a one-trick pony with the phalanx. It could be argued we NEVER got to see the full strength of a Spartan because of this. This would be contrary to both Thebes and Argos who had amazing stories of their heroes 3) an entire culture centered around war and the respect of those that hate you tend to point towards more than mere mythical reputation. Though being one of the two major powers of the Peloponnesian War, and never being invaded by Philip nor Alexander directly (though with Alexander it was more a Golden parachute after seeing the might of his armies) didn’t hurt their reputation in the slightest, in all fairness. People exaggerate the Spartan’s importance, and they exaggerate the Spartan’s unimportance. They were easily some of the greatest warriors through history in terms of skill, education, and sheer mental discipline. The best of all time? Perhaps not, they never got THAT kind of test. But they are in the conversation. Like a genius that didn’t get to blossom fully. Nice comparison would be 19-20 year old Iron Mike.
Fun fact: most of the over-the-top silly lines that the Spartans had, such as "Then we will fight in the shade.", and "...for tonight we dine in hell!" and of course "Because only Spartan women give birth to real men." are in fact real quotes that real Spartans actually said. ...In Greek, presumably, but still. Check out the video from channel Fact Fiend, "Most of the quotes from 300 are actual Spartan quotes" for more. :)
Yup, the term "laconic" (extremely concise) comes from Laconia, or the name for the broader city state to which the city of Sparta belonged, and they're renowned for a number of famous witty and laconic comments and retorts like this.
A couple more fun ones from Sparta: Phillip II, Alexander the Great's father, sent a message to Sparta during his invasion of southern Greece asking how he would be received; As a friend or as an enemy? Sparta replied "Neither." Phillip then sends a message that says "Take care and submit without further delay, for if I bring my army to your lands I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city." Sparta replied "If." After Greece was fully under Macedonian control the king (whose name I can't remember atm, maybe Demos or something) was was being a huge dick and had the ambassadors from southern Greece at court and Sparta sent only one ambassador. The king was offended and demanded to know why Sparta only sent one envoy and the ambassador responded "One ambassador to one king." This one I don't remember as well, so someone can feel free to fill in specific details but there was another one where a king (because Sparta had two kings at a time) was being visited by an Athenian and the Athenian asks "Where is Sparta's walls?" and the king points to his personal guard behind him and says "These are Sparta's walls." He is then asked what how far Sparta reached and the king extends his spear and says "As far as this goes"
@@riolkin There's also King Eudamidas, who, when one Spartan argued that Sparta should go to war with Macedonia after their victories against Persia, said it was "the same as fighting fifty wolves after defeating a thousand sheep." Also, a rather funny one - a diplomat sent to treat with Persian generals was asked if he was coming in a public or private capacity, and he responded "If we succeed, public; if not, private."
Our arrows will blot out the sun. Then we will fight in the shade. Natalie: Pretty good line. Historian: So good, it's been remembered for thousands of years.
@@SierraSierraFoxtrot Zack Snyder snuck as many real laconic sayings as he could in here. There is another one from this war that they should have put in. The Persian messengers asked Sparta for Earth and Water as a sign of fealty to Persia and Leonidas didn't say "THIS IS SPARTA" (which....duh) he said "Dig it out yourself" and then threw him in. (I'm fine with imagining he kicks him in like that, it was pretty badass)
Fun fact: when the persians demanded the spartans to lay down their weapons, Leonidas really did tell them to come get'em. Spartans were known for their clever insults, as they were used to demoralize their enemies
I remeber another story about how after several previous messages they sent an emissary to Sparta with a threat "If we defeat you we'll do X and Y to your people" and the King, I think it was also Leonidas, sent him back with a single word reply: "If" Gotta love their comebacks.
@@ragnar97 those were actually the Macedonians. The bigger Greek state up north. It was Alexander's father Phillip who was conquering everyone on the peninsula & Sparta was the last remaining. He sent them a message saying "if I invade, u will be destroyed never to rise again" the Spartan king replied with 1 word, "IF" Phillip got scared he never bothered to invade Sparta, he instead had his army go around & leave them be. When his son Alexander became King, even with a big empire, never wanted a piece of the Spartans.lol
When talking to people over the years about 300 ...You'd be surprised how many people didn't catch that detail. Which changes the movie going experience IMO when that's realized for some. He was doing exactly what Leonidas asked of him.
@@giovanniecruz872 Yeah certain reads of the film give me pause. Just the other day, was talking to a random Internet stranger about this movie in a ZSJL thread; this person was SO CERTAIN in their interpretation of the movie (which, in a nutshell, posited that the film is war propaganda), it threw me off. They were SURE they were telling me FACTS. Like, how can you be soooo confident that you have the exact answer, ESPECIALLY when that answer has so many competing alternatives, that are at least as likely, if not more so. I don't think they were trolling, because they actually engaged with me in discussion, but whew, was it a dumb discussion.
@@giovanniecruz872 Friendly contra here. Well I can't prove it to you but your take could... just as well be seen as wishful apologetics. No offence meant. In Greek myths being blind usually means seeing the truth, getting the third eye, prophecy etc... it's traditional that blind singers recite the epics. There is not really a hint that he is a unreliable narrator. Nothing he tells is a some point shown to be off or different. And he keeps telling the story in the last scene to the audience after he finished talking to the troops. So we might aswell just take him as a stylistic element and narrative bracket. Pat Bateman in American Psycho is unreliable but his point of view finally falls apart. Leonard in Memento is unreliable but he is called out by the policeman. So I can't see that kind of post- modernism either.
Fun Fact: The Persians were monotheistic (Zoroastrianism) and didn't believe their king was a god. That misconception came from Greek envoys going to the Persian court and seeing people bow to the Persian king as a sign of respect and fealty. In Greece, men only bowed to gods so the Greeks assumed that Persians worshiped their king as a god. Xerxes didn't believe himself a god at any time.
@@mardtdevisser1189 I think you mean to say a few centuries later; but more to the point, while not an exact quote The Spartan general did say "This is great news, wait until the men hear that instead of fighting in the hot sun today we get to fight in the shade." In Spartan culture it wasn't enough to act like a badass you also needed to speak like one.
When Zack Snyder directed the movie, he literally used Frank Miller's graphic novel as his storyboards during pre-production, and then in filming he wanted this film to be as close to a literal adaptation of that graphic novel as possible. That's why it looks the way it does. It's supposed to look like paintings and drawings. *And I wrote this before Tyler scared the crap out of you to let you know everything I just wrote above.
@@EchoFoxtrot21 Not ZSJL, though. You can say that BVS is a bunch of comic stories crammed together but Zack Snyder's Justice League has a very coherent plot.
@@zaubergurke5468 He doesn't miss. It was not his intention to kill him, only to wound him. He needed the persians to lose faith in Xerxes' divinity by showing he was just a mortal. Had he killed him a new "god" could have emerged claiming that Xerxes was an imposter.
One of my favorite quotes from the Spartans: Phillip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartans responded, "If."
The whole film is framed as Dilios "telling the story" of the 300. In this light, the more fantastical things depicted are meant to be artistic embellishments created by an unreliable narrator. Thus you have Persians depicted as soulless monsters, Xerxes depicted as a giant, Ephialties portrayed as twisted and monstrous, etc. That's my take anyway.
That is usual excuse and it's a good one but it doesn't quite hold up. First a few things, like explosives and the rhino, are not things Dilios would have even known about. Second several of the attitudes he's expressing are not ones a Spartan would have held, such as a hatred for superstition and a distrust of religion and insulting the Athenians by calling them "boy-lovers" (the Spartans were VERY superstitious and religious and had no issue with older men sleeping with disturbingly young boys) and some inaccuracies are not ones a Spartan would have got wrong (example: the Ephors were not inbred priests, they were the ruling council of Sparta). Finally the end at the battle of Platea which is where Dilios is telling the story (thus presumably meant to be real life) still has the Spartans in their posing pouches instead of the armour they would have been wearing and still running forward like berzerkers instead of maintaining close formation. Don't get me wrong, love the film, just that that the storyteller explanation doesn't cover all.
Your points on Spartan culture might be legit, but as far as the portrayal of the battle goes, you're assuming that Dilios was trying to give a factually account of events, rather than telling a propagandistic tale to rouse an army. Rhinos? Troll dudes? Towering, booming-voiced Xerxes? None of it needed to be accurate. If you need an explanation, watch 'Big Fish'.
Same. Movies by unreliable narrators tend to embellish or be propagandistic in their very nature, and it is always entertaining to see people try to take this on face value.
The funny thing is the film is very accurate to the Spartan accounts of the battle of Thermopile. Its the Spartan accounts of the battle of Thermopile that are complete fantasy.
The narration is key, as Frank Millar's writing gave such a power voice to the graphic novel. Also, you did well to pick up on the illustrated quality of the cinematography. Zack Snyder tried to recreate many of the iconic frames from the book. You can see this same dedication from the directors adapting Frank Millar's Sin City, as well. Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez know how to respect legendary works of art.
Fun fact: If I remember this correctly, Persia's elite corps, The Immortals, got that name from the tradition that its numbers were constant. If a member died, or retired, the spot would be immediately filled to match the standing strength of the military organization.
Some actual historical notes: 1. The Spartans killed the envoys as a message to their own people. One of the Spartans Kings was exiled in Persia and some Spartans supported him. 2. The brutal culling of Spartan boys was real. Training did start at age seven and was absurdly hard and cruel. 3. The love between King and Queen wasn't supposed to happen. Love gets in the way of service of the state. Couples fell in love anyway because, people.
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 A collectivist society touting celibate warrior drones belonging to what is effectively a cult of death is hardly a model one. As Ben Franklin said, those who put security before freedom deserve neither.
@@acdragonrider not THAT great all in all. Athenians who were supposedly mollified by all their theatre and philosophy and stuff also managed perfectly well to kick ass if necessary. The Peloponnesian War ended with Sparta's victory but it was a very pointless one - both powers were basically in tatters at that point.
This looks greenscreened. This feels like a book. This feels like a video game. This feels like an illustration. Soooo close to saying it looks like a comic.
Maybe she's not that familiar with comics If I remember well, she did watch Marvel movies, but those are movies, took mostly the story elements from comics
don't recall if you have seen The Last Samurai yet with Tom Cruise, but there is a part towards the end when Tom tells the Samurai general about Thermapoli and the 300 Spartans.
Natalie, if you see his comment - watch Last Samurai. It is INCREDIBLY good. A lot of emotional heart to it, more so than 300, even though I do really enjoy 300.
@@Tzoppo11 It's still not historically accurate, but it's also much more enjoyable to watch if you're wanting something historically *believable,* since, y'know, no fantasy elements in it.
"Is this foreshadowing for the battle?" Damn she was right, I've seen this movie like 5 times and still hadn't made the connection between the wolf scene and the bottleneck battle scene. I am not smart.
I've seen this movie in theaters man and then 100 times after and NEVER thought of that. Just thought it was a G moment from the boy. But she is completely right about that, being it Leonidas also. What a foreshadow thank you!
It was. The whole plan of holding Thermopylae was to bottleneck the Persians and keep them in a narrow pass. That somehow made their numbers feel less daunting. It worked for a while had the Persians not known about the rear flank.
It's not you. Give yourself a little more credit. The reason you couldn't make a connection was because this garbage was written and directed by Zach Snyder. Zach Snyder is one of the worst writers and directors in Hollywood in the last 20 years. This is why you couldn't make the connection.
I live how this movie is a retelling of a battle and the man telling the story with really embellishing the battle .. and it's his retelling is what we see not what actually happened.. it's a masterpiece
Last Samurai was not Cruise's best movie (I'd say that goes to Interview with a Vampire) but it was the best movie Cruise was in. Part of that is because although he is sort of the centerpiece of the film, and it sort of revolves around him, it's not really ABOUT him, if that makes sense. They did an amazing job putting ancient Japanese culture front and center.
@@TedBrogan Easy killer. It's called a figure of speech. It is hands down his best. IN MY OPINION. Your hands can be wherever you want them to be, doesn't change my opinion. Obviously you're welcome to disagree. Have you never heard that term before (hands down)? Is Tom Cruise like, your favorite actor on planet Earth and I upset you with my pick? Or did my opinion just upset you that much?
Since you’ve seen Gladiator and now 300, I think you’ll enjoy Troy if you haven’t seen it. Keep up the reactions, you’re carrying quarantine right now not even gone lie.
But watch the Director’s Cut of Troy. It has a few scenes that were not in the theatrical version that make it a much better viewing experience by comparison. The Director’s Cut of Troy is the definitive version in my opinion.
The movie is based on a graphic novel by Frank Miller, and followed the success of the Sin City movie, that sparked a lot of graphic novel movies adaptations.
@@markfilla9305 Another great movie that she won't understand. She'll just WiKi it and say it's a story about Las Vegas and that it's not historically accurate.
In a similar vein, another weird distortion of historical reality in this movie is how the Persians are depicted as brutal slavers with all those whips and chains, whereas in reality, the Persian Empire of that time was one of the very few ancient empires not built on slavery while the Spartans were very much brutal slavers.
"We have moved ahead technologically to a point where the excitement of the drawing can be translated onto the screen. So, I can see Gerard Butler in combat; but the sky behind him looks to me like it was painted by Lynn Varley, who did all the colors in the original book. This way, you are able to take the readers to a brand new place where in the past only the artist’s hand could." - Frank Miller
In 345BC, King Phillip of Macedonia sent a message "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city." The Spartans replied back with one word, "If"
for me there is a difference from historical revisionism to be entertaining and fantastic, and historical revisionism out of ignorance or in service of an agenda.
@@danilooliveira6580 Yeah, the movie is supposed to be Faramir telling the story. And like many good storytellers, he doesn't let pesky things like truth and accuracy get in the way of a good story. True today, but damn true in ancient Greece. Up until a like the 1800s or something, historians just kind of assumed Troy wasn't a real place because of all the bullshit the Greeks tacked onto their stories about it. tl;dr: Sword-hands guy is there for atmosphere.
@@frigginjerk true, but that is not my point. what I'm saying is that you shouldn't be afraid of writing a fantastic story just because you are afraid of not being historically accurate. what you can't do is then proceed to sell it as historical.
While what we today commonly refer to as MYTHS are largely ancient works of "folklore" (meant to "explain" the things that nobody understood), a good portion of the mythological stories were dramatized reinterpretations of historical events where the details that people DID remember were "sketchy" at best. (Traditionally, they portrayed one's homeland/people in the most flattering terms and demonized their opposition; the TRUTH of that history may be SOMEWHERE in those stories, but finding the EVIDENCE to establish it is improbable.) This movie could be called a "fictional myth", since it portrays a REAL event through the lens of a MYTHICAL retelling by a (likely) FICTIONAL participant in the event.
So much so there have been many battles there as Greek leaders want to larp as Leonidas and end up getting beaten the same way when locals show the other army the secret passes.
There's a really excellent book, "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield, that came out in 1998, about the Battle of Thermopylae. At one point, there was some effort going on to make it into a movie. 300 was made first, practically guaranteeing that Gates of Fire will never be made into a movie. 300 is good in its own way, but as a history geek I like how Gates of Fire gives more depth to ancient Greek and Spartan culture, and how it explains the events and history before the battle. Gates of Fire really deserves to be a mini series like Rome or Spartacus or Game of Thrones.
The historical last meeting between King Leonidas and Queen Gorgo-- Queen Gorgo: Come back with your shield, or on it. King Leonidas: If I do not return, marry a good man, and have strong children. Yeah, hugging, kissing, and romance didn't really exist in ancient Sparta.
Around 346 BCE, during the later campaigns of the Third Sacred War, Philip II of Macedon was conquering the Greek city-states far and wide. He sent a message to the Spartans saying "If I invade Lakonia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartans replied with one word: If. Philip II chose to leave Sparta alone.
Not because of that message though, mostly Sparta was a shell of a state and didn't matter anymore. It was promptly largely ignored for centuries as a meaningless backwater. But it makes for a good story.
@@mormacil I know. Sparta was never an agricultural 'paradise' nor a strategically located city-state however, it fully articulates their terse and bellicose nature.
@@GriffinPilgrim Philip wasn't just a great strategist, he could also somewhat rule. That alone makes him the better man then Alexander in my book, a kid that overspecialized in field battles :P
After invading Greece and receiving the submission of other key city-states, Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta: "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." Spartan reply: "If"
Sparta at the time of Philip II was nothing more than a shadow of its former self. Beaten by Thebes and later by Philip and Alexander in several battles.
and then one generation later , Sparta kinda bend to the persians when they were losing a war to others greeks, and then became really pacifist when roma conquer them, many greeks revolt, but not sparta
It's like Stephen Colbert said when the movie came out. It's the story of how 300 Spartans and their 1600 abs defeated the Persians. edit* Maybe it was 1800 abs. It's been over a decade.
A sad story is the one of Dillios (actual name is Aristodemus), he was sent back because of his eye and was spit on by the Spartans because they thought he was a coward for not dying with the others. Later in the battle of Platea, he charged in berserk mode against the Persians trying to redeem himself and was killed, and the Spartans still thought he was a coward who just wanted to get killed.
Well thousands of years later a movie was made with him fighting bravely and saying the most epic speech of all time, so in a sense he was finally recognized, a couple thousand years later.
@@richieclean Sorry dude. I did check Wikipedia and it's his first listing there. Although looking at IMDb, all of his earlier credits were in television and made-for-TV movies, so I don't feel I was that inaccurate. I've edited my comment to include "major" film appearance.
True Epic Spartan Story: After invading Greece and receiving the submission of other key city-states, Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta: "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartan replied with a single word: "If"
that "then we'll fight in the shade" line was a real line in history the Spartans were trained to be super Whitty and it was said in response to hearing an army arrows will block out the shade
@@clarkbarrett6274 I wasn't talking about the encounter of the day, but the encounter of the Spartans and the Persians, so, yeah, we're in the different matter category.
The original quote was even more badass-it was delivered with a grateful smile, because the weather forecast called for hot sun, but now they’d be cooled by the shadow of the arrow cloud. Thanks for the arrows, kind stranger!
I love that there were only two ways for a Spartan to earn the right to have their name on their tombstone. A man could get it by dying in battle, or a woman could by dying in childbirth.
The, for me, most important thing about this movie is that it's a story being told, everything supernatural and all the slow-motion and the vivid backgrounds make perfect sense when you understand that it's a story told by Dilios (David Wenham/Faramir from LotR) to hype up the troops before the big battle against the persians. Of course the Spartans are basically superheroes, it's called artistic license. Dilios is, in his story, turning them into superheroes.
That's why the fat guy with sword arms makes sense, it's why the monstrous rhino makes sense, it's why the portrayal of Xerxes makes sense, it's why Ephialtes looks extra disfigured. In the story Dilios is telling they are the monsters and the Spartans are the heroes.
That is usual excuse and it's a good one but it doesn't quite hold up. First a few things, like explosives and the rhino, are not things Dilios would have even known about. Second several of the attitudes he's expressing are not ones a Spartan would have held, such as a hatred for superstition and a distrust of religion and insulting the Athenians by calling them "boy-lovers" (the Spartans were VERY superstitious and religious and had no issue with older men sleeping with disturbingly young boys) and some inaccuracies are not ones a Spartan would have got wrong (example: the Ephors were not inbred priests, they were the ruling council of Sparta). Finally the end at the battle of Platea which is where Dilios is telling the story (thus presumably meant to be real life) still has the Spartans in their posing pouches instead of the armour they would have been wearing and still running forward like berzerkers instead of maintaining close formation. Don't get me wrong, love the film, just that that the storyteller explanation doesn't cover all.
Fun fact: Xerxes is played by the guy who is Laura Linney's love interest in Love Actually. Imagine how that movie would be like with a seven-foot Persian god-king strutting around a London magazine office.
A year late, but the reason Leonidas went with three hundred personal bodyguard, was because he couldn’t go to war without permission, but the law also said that if a spartan king was killed, Sparta must go to war. So he sacrificed himself so Sparta could fight and survive.
I'm from Brazil and the actor who plays King Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro) is very popular around here. When I heard he was in this movie, I watched it looking for him everywhere, not finding him. I had to Google who he was playing and when I found out, my brain exploded.
The Last Samurai is an INCREDIBLE film, definitely would be a great one to react to as well! It won't be what you're expecting - even with me saying that.
@@lalalarose8197 I understand assuming that from the optics of the film but 'The Last Samurai' is not Tom Cruise's character, and the character he plays is nothing but the audience surrogate that witnesses (and unsuccessfully helps) the important characters and events of the film. It's one of the few films of its premise that _isn't_ a white saviour movie, and if anything should be recognized for that.
@@SCOLT7 If he’s just the audience’s guidepost why not have a Japanese actor play the role? If he’s so inconsequential anyone could play the role. As frustrating as it is I assume the film needed name recognition that someone like Cruise brings.
As a history nerd, I also didn't get the fantasy/magic/monsters elements of this film, until someone pointed out to me that we're not seeing the battle as it happened...we're getting the NARRATOR'S slightly exaggerated tale of the events. Hence the monsters and such. He was trying to kill Xerxes, but they were honest enough to history not to portray that, since in history, Lionitis died there, Xerxes did not.
Indeed. One thing a lot of people miss, or just don't know the style, with the comic and the movie was that it was told and presented as if you were watching it in a Greek Theater. So all the action of the characters is in one spot or side, with the main actors standing out starkly from the background. The narrator giving the summary of the events as they unfold, greatly exaggerating heroic feats and enemies.
It's not just exaggerated, it's being told to inspire the troops at the end who are about to run into a battle where they'll be outnumbered 3-to-1. It's exaggerated for a purpose, with all of the elements heightened, to galvanize the soldiers before war. Also, the intent of the story is to highlight the heroic nature of the sacrifice of Leonidas and the 300, not have a hero defeat a baddie. According to Frank Miller himself: "It is not a happy story, though it is inspiring, and it doesn’t have a happy ending. But I believe it gets to the heart of what a hero really is. A hero is someone who does the right thing for his tribe, for his honor and for his society because it is right and not to be rewarded in any material sense or to even be given credit of any kind. My heroes may die disgraced, while they may be the only ones who know that it isn’t true, but they also know they have done the right thing."
You have to understand, it's based not on the historical Battle of Thermopylae but rather Frank Miller's comic "300" which is more a "fantasy" retelling of the event. Once you have your head around that, the movie is awesome.
Quite right. The movie is fun and entertaining, but if one wants to actually learn about Thermopylae or the greater world of the ancient Greeks, read a book.
Indeed. I enjoy history accuracy, but sometimes fiction inspired by history can be enjoyable too. "300" clearly portray itself as fiction, so there is no dishonesty. As a pure action movie it excels.
Also, we aren't watching the battle. We're watching one soldier's retelling of the battle as he looks to inspire the next wave of soldiers. That's why everything is exaggerated and larger than life, because his tale is making their deeds look even greater.
No. This is part of the legend but there is absolutely no actual evidence about what was or was not said one way or the other -- obviously, since all but two men (Aristodemus and Pantites) died at the site and neither saw battle nor left any record of anything they did or saw one way or the other. The only semi-contemporaneous account is courtesy of Herodotus who was 4 years old at the time of the battle, so was not there. And, whatever the importance of the man and his writings, the literal accuracy of Herodotus' histories is...umm... questionable, to say the least. The whole "We will fight in the shade" thing is just a macho one-liner invented after-the-fact. The Greek equivalent of a Schwarzenegger zinger.
@@kpe727 well you as well base your searches it seems on Wikipedia pages but you should not Wikipedia is a pod. public open document you should research unbiased books made by award winning historians. Indeed the Spartans said those one liners, its basic history now If you only referring to the line we will fight in the shade thats a different thing. Also since we don't have enough sources to analyse the events that occurred whats left but to trust the statements of the old we found, heredotus and more
Fun fact: Historically, the reason the Spartans kicked the Persian messenger into a pit was because a previous Persian messenger visited Athens demanding Earth and water and the Athenians kicked the messenger off their docks and into the ocean. Athens provided the water, Sparta provided the Earth.
Athens, unlike Sparta, actually won their part of this battle. Sparta made good warriors but were a joke in organized warfare. Argos and Thebes had the badass armies and Athens had the unstoppable navy. the only place a Spartan really shined was the Olympics where individual skill actually mattered.
@@davidkelly4210 I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Spartans sucked at organized warfare. At its peak the Spartan army was the leading land warfare force in Greece, and probably in the ancient Mediterranean as a whole. The Spartans provided a strong core of the force that finally defeated the Persians at the battle of Plataea. When Athens fought them in the Peloponnesian War, the Athenians actually developed a strategy that refused to engage the Spartans in open battle while wearing them down elsewhere (it didn't work). Even their small force at Thermopylae was disciplined and tough (you had to be tough to be a phalanx hoplite). In the end, of course, the Spartans became too elitist and domineering and it led to their downfall. Sic transit gloria mundi.... They lost at Thermopylae because 1. they were really outnumbered, 2. the Persians got behind them, and 3). Leonidas decided he was going to die where he stood.
"Feels like an illustrated book." 'Based on the graphic novel by Frank Miller' lol Edit: Also, the very short and almost 'one liner' way of speaking is actually based on how the Spartans spoke. Phillip of Macedon once said something along the lines of "If I come down there, I will burn down your city, slaughter its people, etc." The Spartan king wrote back a reply that only said 'If.'
While the events ticked off the historical points, this is a over-the-top version based on a Comic Book by Frank Miller who also did one of the Batman stories. There is an excellent History Channel (When they did history) about BOTH the 300 and 300 Rise of an Empire movies. I was able for my own personal viewing to re-edit both movies into one 3 hour version and the timeline was perfect. This is Gerald Bulter's breakout movie btw. The movie does not include the 1000 additional troops or the sea battle that was happening simultaneously (300 Rise of an Empire was the sea battle) I had recently re-watched the movie. Actually fact, Then we will fight in the shade is an actual line. And No Retreat - No Surrender is used currently in today's US Military.
historical fact: the movie is called 300, but in reality in the battle of thermopile there were more then just 300 greeks. there were 7000 greeks in total and 300 of them were Spartans. the battle lasted 3 days. the first day the Greeks killed atleast 10,000 of persia's troops, in the second day they killed another 10,000 and on the third day they killed around 5000 until after the persians found the narrow passage around to cut them off. if they had not found that passage the greeks would have pushed Persia out of greece
Thespian soldiers, the majority of those who stayed and fought to the death, never got their due. I suppose because the allied army chose the old Spartan king as overall general. Wouldn't be the only time the ancient Thespians fought to the death, either. Another example of prevalent details being lost in later relating of historical events, and how skewed it can be.
No, the Greeks were 1000 in total. 300 Spartans and 700 Thespians. Leonidas was one of the first who died in the battle, Spartans managed to take his dead body back and even when their spears and swords broke; they fought with their teeth and fingernails. Also, it was not the Spartans but the Athenians before the battle of Marathon that thrown the Persian messengers into the well and they did it because they dare to ask them to surrender in Greek. Lastly, Ephialtes wasn't a Spartan. After the Greco-Persian war they arrest him and hang him and even to this day the Greek word for "nightmare" is Ephialtes.
Though it happened through messengers and not some little skirmish, the lines "Our arrows will blot out the sun" and "Then we will fight in the shade" were actually taken from real history. That was actually in the correspondence between the two camps before the battle began.
Spot on Natalie! It's a one view movie, and the 1960s version is more realistic and historically accurate. Interesting fact, about 15 years ago? Archeologists unearthed some broken Stone statue parts, which they believe were part of some ancient monument erected to honour the 300....it was very moving to watch the excavation of half stone statue that looked just like one of the Spartans wearing a battle helmet. They placed a new stone memorial in the same place. It really brought home the sacrifice they made.
It's meant to be a propaganda piece for the soldiers imo. Narrator dude is telling it to other Spartan soldiers about how brave and godlike their brothers were against the monstrous creatures and half men of Asia as they faced certain death. From that lens it's great.
The Battle of Thermopylae (like other legendary battles) inspires literary adaptations to embellish a tragic, but brave goal. And when the 300 died in this way, they passed into immortality.
@sunbro of astora Are you sure? That is right about the Spartans had help from the Greek hoplites of the other polis for that battle. However, when they were finally surrounded, they drove the rest of the Greek troops away of Thermopylae. Only the Thessalonians stayed with them.
@sunbro of astora Leonidas was chosen to lead the force with his 300 Hoplites (and 900 odd slaves, people always forget them). I wouldn't say they didn't play a big part.
If you open Google Earth, and find the island in the center of the Aegean Sea called "Ag Efstratios" .... follow the roads south all the way down to near the southern tip of the island.... there, you will find a symbol of a Shield and Spear (the Nikolaos Sialmas Monument), with the words Molon Labe written beside them.
Cersei is doing good for herself. Queen of Sparta and queen of the seven kingdoms of Westeros. And yes, Leonidas showed that “even god kings can bleed”
You are right. Everyone always forgets the 700 Thespians and 900 helots. And totally forget the 6000 Greeks who were present until the goat path was discovered.
My favourite part about this subject is that I can say "my Grandfather fought at the Battle of Thermopylae before he was taken prisoner by the Nazis and spent the rest of the war in Colditz". It never ceases to get a reaction but it's totally true... it was the Fifth Battle of Thermopylae, in 1941.
The actual historical battle is actually much more interesting than the movie. The Spartan Phalanx was one of the most incredible methods of war to behold, and truly encapsulated the concept of Greek logic.
No there was no "Spartan" phalanx there was just the Hoplite Phalanx, there was nothing different about the Spartan formations. All the Greek City states used the same formations during the classical period. The difference was in training and ethos.
“Troy” (2004) is a great Greek epic movie, historically based, starring Brad Pitt, Eric Bana, Orlando Bloom, and Peter O’Toole. Some critics panned it, but I always thought it was underappreciated. The Director’s Cut is the way to go.
I actually recommend *not* using the Director's cut. It's longer sure, but the music is terrible in it. They changed much of the score and lost the feeling the original had. Particularly the epic 1v1 duel (not saying who to avoid spoilers in case Natalie does see this), the music in the original scene is far superior than the one in the Director's Cut.
I liked Troy but I feel it missed the point pretty badly on characterisation. I've read the Illiad, if you want a sympathetic Trojan to view the war through Hector is a good choice but Paris is a jerk and if you want a sympathetic Greek for Zeus' sake don't pick "You can all die because I'm in a snit" Achilles. "I just want to get this shit over with and go home" Odysseus will do nicely. Also the story is way less fun with all the interfering gods taken out.
@@GriffinPilgrim Yeah, considering in the Illiad it was started because Aphrodite was super jealous. It's a fun adaptation of "what could have actually happened" but it does lose the fun without the gods' interference.
The History of 300 is actually pretty good (especially when you remember it's based off of a graphic novel), but in terms of the actual events it mirrors the account by Herodotus pretty closely, some comsemetic things obviously excepted. The really irritating thing is that the film really pretends that there where only a few hundred greeks at Thermopylae, when in fact there where about 7,000 greeks fighitng in the pass, and during the final stand the Spartans where still accomapnied by about 1,000 greeks from Thespia (yes they where Thespians) and Thebes. *edit* Also being a potter (a skilled craftsman who probably was wealthy enough to own a shop) in Ancient Greece is not the same as being a Potter in the modern world. The Hellenic cities did not have standing armies, and in most cities the army consisted of the wealthy upper middle and upper classes who could afford military equipment, and held citizenship. In times of peace they would have farms and buisnesses that they would run, and in times of war (which was pretty much every, or every other year, because Ancient Greece was a violent place) they'd pick up their shields and spears and go to fight. So while to us Potter=/=Soldier to a Theban Potter automatically meant Soldier. Where the Spartans differed was that they structured their society around a system of slaves that meant the Spartan Citizens didn't have a secondary job when they where not fighting, baisically meaning that while most Greek Cities had their citizens Soldier as a night job, the Spartans did it full time. Also sad you didn't recognise that Faramir, Captain of Gondor, finally had a chance to prove his worth.
Ive seen this perspective in some youtube analysis before: the story we are watching here is told from the perspective of Dilios giving a campfire pep talk before the battle. The persian numbers are exaggerated, their monstrosity painted in the most ludicrous colors. The spartans are all heroes to the last man of course, because we are watching propaganda. Gives a whole new spin to the inaccurate or unrealistic parts.
It's not just RUclips analysis. It's Frank Miller's actual intention: "I wanted it to sound as if it had been told by an old warrior over a campfire and to look as we would vision it while listening to him." - Frank Miller
Yeah, Spartan culture was very much a survival-of-the-fittest type of culture. Babies deemed to weak to be to fight or contribute to society were left out in the elements to die of starvation and exposure although some were often adopted by Spartan slaves. Boys were taken at a young age, age seven may actually be accurate, to train to be soldiers. All Spartan men were warriors while Spartan women were also expected to be strong and capable. A common phrase associated with Sparta is as follows: To any Spartan warrior, "Either return with your shield or on it."
Fun Fact: The agoge was about being a Spartan Citizen, so it included teaching all (boys and girls) to sing and dance. The men also slept with the children they taught, so... yeah, that scene where Leonidas calls out the Athenians as 'boy-lovers'... big hypocrite move, there.
Yeah the movie glosses over a lot of terrible stuff about Spartans. The Spartans scream about fighting for freedom in the movie but their whole society was built on slavery. All male Spartans were only soldiers as the movie correctly said. So who did all the actual work? Slaves. The Spartans enslaved a whole people called Helots (and occasionally killed lots of them to keep them in line)
@@andrewward5891 I believe that was part of graduating as a soldier - you had to kill a slave without being found out. That was from a documentary I watched *ages* ago, so pinches of salt and all that.
@@Rougeification - I don’t think the young Spartans were necessarily supposed to kill a slave Helot but they were expected to steal food from them to survive. Like young Leonidss in the beginning of the movie a young spartan would be expected to survive on his own in the wild and stealing food from the Helots was expected. If the kid was caught stealing by the Helots he was humiliated and could lose his shot at citizenship
@John B Persia was still extremely overbearing and conquesting. It isn't like Sparta was off conquering the world. They might have been huge dickbags but they tended to keep to themselves and just hate everyone else. While Persia was expanding an Empire.
@@MaryJane-wk1ni The reason Sparta wasn't off conquering the world was their society was 100% slave based, everything but the military was performed by slavery. As a result Sparta was *constantly* putting down slave rebellions, but eventually the slaves were successful and that's what ended Sparta. Guys who idolize Sparta via 300 are usually the same folks who think the mobsters in GoodFellas were cool and that the society in Starship Troopers is a good one.
@@scottschofield5000 Never said I was idealizing them. I just don't think Persia should be praised for their conquesting either. Sparta was far more isolationist because their kingdom was extremely fragile and they didn't have the same man power as Persia to conquest and control slaves. Even tho Sparta was a shitty as city-state doesn't mean Persia was any better.
@@scottschofield5000 Plus even tho Sparta was shitty as fuck. Their heroics did alot for all the other city-states at the time. If they didn't push Persia at this battle there is a chance Greece could of been conquered and there wouldn't of been a push to keep the Persian out of Greece. The moment the "300" fell was the moment Persia started ran sacking cities and I believe sacked Athens.
The ancient state of Sparta was also known as Laconia. It's people were known, amongst other things, for their quick witted, concise speech aka one liners and comebacks. From here we get the word laconic. Another note: Persia was effectively the nice guys of the time. They generally bought out lands and used diplomacy to conquer rather than slaughter, though on occasion they got extreme. Their depiction in the movie is in line with the way the comic portrays them.
"Our arrows will blot out the sun." "Then we will fight in the shade" ---------------------------------------------------- "Spartans! Lay down your weapons!" "Persians! Come and take them!" -those lines were actually said in the historical record of this battle
Another good example was when Philip II of Macedon, Alexanders father wanted to take over Sparta. When he messaged them weither he should come as friend or foe, the Spartans simply answered "Neither". Philips next message was: "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city." To which the Spartans replied: "If", understandably neither Philip, nor Alexander ended up attempting to attack Sparta.
I was today years old when i recognized Michael Fassbender as Stelios And the sad thing about the guy who was send back is that he was seen as a coward by the spartians back home. In the real 2nd battle he was one of the first who charged in like a berserk and killed a lot of the persians before he died and restored his honor.
Given back then they fully believed assaulting the ocean would offend the gods, that was a massively ballsy thing to do. Sure, it seems silly to us now, but it was a legitimate fear back then. Hell, the Odyssey is essentially one massive story about how offending Poseidon is a *terrible* idea
I genuinely took my first ever date in school to see this movie at the cinema, i wasn't aware it was a date and thought we were just friends, i still cringe over it now
Fun fact: the reason the sky's all golden-looking in this film is that the language of the original story didn't have a word for 'blue'. They used 'bronze', meaning a bright sky, because of how brightly bronze shines when it's polished.
@@mormacil I don't have one and don't care enough to look that up. But by stating a universal claim, you put the burden of proof upon yourself to actually show your claim is right. ;)
The original battle of Thermopylae had 300 Spartans and a few thousand other Greeks from various cities states, though the majority were from Athens. The legend of there only being just the 300 Spartans came from Sparta itself as they were masters at spreading propaganda to demoralize their enemies and flex on their neighbors.
There were 300 Spartans among the army of several thousand Greeks. And the 300 Spartans did all die in the battle. They held off the Persians so the rest of the army could retreat safely after the Persians were tipped off about the pass above the Greeks.
It’s funny how you say the visual style seems like a book. Well, 300 is based on a comic book/graphic novel.
“A book with illustrations” even
And many of the scenes basically used the graphic novel as a storyboard.
Snyder pretty much recreated panels from 300 even trying to mimic Frank Miller's stylized art style and tried using a color pallette that matched Lynn Varley's colors.
Yes. It always happens when youtubers don't do their research
And each page is almost shot for shot
"It's an honor to die by your side!"
"It was an honor... to have lived by yours."
Every time ;_;
every time.... vampire?
Facts
Same 😭 Love Michael Fassbender 🥺
10:48 - Fun fact: The battle of Thermopylae lasted three days. On the first day, only three Greek soldiers died, while the Persians lost a few thousands. It wasn't that Greek soldiers were braver or more capable, it was simply a matter of superior tactics. The Greeks used the phalanx and the bottlenecking of the pass, completely neutralising any advantage the Persians had.
+Better Training, Technology, Morale, Supplies, knowledge of Terrain and etc.
It's fairly asinine to say they weren't braver or more capable. They were raised as warriors and trained since 7, and they were EAGER to die in battle.
@@Heroo01 I don't agree with your statement, this battle has turned into a legend and much of the information is greatly exaggerated. The famed agoge is a much later spartan training regime, mostly used to show off how "powerful" Sparta was. (see The Spartans: The World of the Warrior-heroes of Ancient Greece by Paul Anthony Cartledge and J. Ducat, Spartan Education: Youth and Society in the Classical Period). The entirety of this warrior class was also built on the excessive abuse and exploitation of slave labour to a much more significant degree than most other city-states (see S. Hodkinson, Property and Wealth in Classical Sparta). They truly weren't significantly more capable than the Persians but the Greek defence of 7-9000~ (not 300) was still remarkable, however, I wouldn't call it asinine to conclude that the Greeks were more capable, holding time chokepoints are really not that difficult in the ancient world (see Battle of the Persian Gate).
Well by the time of Alexanders invasion of the Persian empire, the Persian considered some of their best infantry the Greek mercenaries
@@rayansharma2042
You’re ignoring some very key points in that assessment though
1) because everything was based in slave labor, the entire citizenship could be full-time warriors. It was literally impossible for them to have ring-rust and they considered their training harder than war
2) if anything their ultra-strict discipline ended up weakening them. The way the Agoge worked GREATLY encourage the kinds of tactics you would find in guerrilla warfare. They’d have been experts in a skirmish yet they were a one-trick pony with the phalanx. It could be argued we NEVER got to see the full strength of a Spartan because of this. This would be contrary to both Thebes and Argos who had amazing stories of their heroes
3) an entire culture centered around war and the respect of those that hate you tend to point towards more than mere mythical reputation. Though being one of the two major powers of the Peloponnesian War, and never being invaded by Philip nor Alexander directly (though with Alexander it was more a Golden parachute after seeing the might of his armies) didn’t hurt their reputation in the slightest, in all fairness.
People exaggerate the Spartan’s importance, and they exaggerate the Spartan’s unimportance.
They were easily some of the greatest warriors through history in terms of skill, education, and sheer mental discipline. The best of all time? Perhaps not, they never got THAT kind of test. But they are in the conversation. Like a genius that didn’t get to blossom fully. Nice comparison would be 19-20 year old Iron Mike.
Fun fact: most of the over-the-top silly lines that the Spartans had, such as "Then we will fight in the shade.", and "...for tonight we dine in hell!" and of course "Because only Spartan women give birth to real men." are in fact real quotes that real Spartans actually said. ...In Greek, presumably, but still. Check out the video from channel Fact Fiend, "Most of the quotes from 300 are actual Spartan quotes" for more. :)
Yup, the term "laconic" (extremely concise) comes from Laconia, or the name for the broader city state to which the city of Sparta belonged, and they're renowned for a number of famous witty and laconic comments and retorts like this.
A couple more fun ones from Sparta:
Phillip II, Alexander the Great's father, sent a message to Sparta during his invasion of southern Greece asking how he would be received; As a friend or as an enemy?
Sparta replied "Neither."
Phillip then sends a message that says "Take care and submit without further delay, for if I bring my army to your lands I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."
Sparta replied "If."
After Greece was fully under Macedonian control the king (whose name I can't remember atm, maybe Demos or something) was was being a huge dick and had the ambassadors from southern Greece at court and Sparta sent only one ambassador. The king was offended and demanded to know why Sparta only sent one envoy and the ambassador responded "One ambassador to one king."
This one I don't remember as well, so someone can feel free to fill in specific details but there was another one where a king (because Sparta had two kings at a time) was being visited by an Athenian and the Athenian asks "Where is Sparta's walls?" and the king points to his personal guard behind him and says "These are Sparta's walls." He is then asked what how far Sparta reached and the king extends his spear and says "As far as this goes"
Nothing develops a sense of humor and sarcasm like a brutal upbringing and constant warfare.
@@riolkin There's also King Eudamidas, who, when one Spartan argued that Sparta should go to war with Macedonia after their victories against Persia, said it was "the same as fighting fifty wolves after defeating a thousand sheep."
Also, a rather funny one - a diplomat sent to treat with Persian generals was asked if he was coming in a public or private capacity, and he responded "If we succeed, public; if not, private."
@@BaronVonHoovy I love Spartan wit. To them comedy was another weapon.
Our arrows will blot out the sun.
Then we will fight in the shade.
Natalie: Pretty good line.
Historian: So good, it's been remembered for thousands of years.
Ahhh... the laconic wit
Makes you wonder how many clever quips almost made it to the present but not quite.
@@SierraSierraFoxtrot there’s quite a few actual quotes that made it into the film
@@SierraSierraFoxtrot Zack Snyder snuck as many real laconic sayings as he could in here. There is another one from this war that they should have put in. The Persian messengers asked Sparta for Earth and Water as a sign of fealty to Persia and Leonidas didn't say "THIS IS SPARTA" (which....duh) he said "Dig it out yourself" and then threw him in. (I'm fine with imagining he kicks him in like that, it was pretty badass)
It's not real history.
Fun fact: when the persians demanded the spartans to lay down their weapons, Leonidas really did tell them to come get'em. Spartans were known for their clever insults, as they were used to demoralize their enemies
Good old Laconic speech.
They practiced Laconic Speech which is to use as few words possible, which paired with a clever mind can be incredibly witty and sarcastic.
I remeber another story about how after several previous messages they sent an emissary to Sparta with a threat "If we defeat you we'll do X and Y to your people" and the King, I think it was also Leonidas, sent him back with a single word reply: "If"
Gotta love their comebacks.
@@ragnar97 those were actually the Macedonians. The bigger Greek state up north. It was Alexander's father Phillip who was conquering everyone on the peninsula & Sparta was the last remaining. He sent them a message saying "if I invade, u will be destroyed never to rise again" the Spartan king replied with 1 word, "IF" Phillip got scared he never bothered to invade Sparta, he instead had his army go around & leave them be. When his son Alexander became King, even with a big empire, never wanted a piece of the Spartans.lol
@@rosaryinkeanushand4827 Ty, I had forgotten the specific details. I hope this time they'll stick lol
The movie is “narrated” by the guy who lost an eye.
That’s why it seems so epic and exaggerated... it’s a tale not a description
Legend, not history. 👍
When talking to people over the years about 300 ...You'd be surprised how many people didn't catch that detail. Which changes the movie going experience IMO when that's realized for some. He was doing exactly what Leonidas asked of him.
@@giovanniecruz872 Yeah certain reads of the film give me pause. Just the other day, was talking to a random Internet stranger about this movie in a ZSJL thread; this person was SO CERTAIN in their interpretation of the movie (which, in a nutshell, posited that the film is war propaganda), it threw me off. They were SURE they were telling me FACTS. Like, how can you be soooo confident that you have the exact answer, ESPECIALLY when that answer has so many competing alternatives, that are at least as likely, if not more so. I don't think they were trolling, because they actually engaged with me in discussion, but whew, was it a dumb discussion.
@@giovanniecruz872 Friendly contra here. Well I can't prove it to you but your take could... just as well be seen as wishful apologetics. No offence meant. In Greek myths being blind usually means seeing the truth, getting the third eye, prophecy etc... it's traditional that blind singers recite the epics. There is not really a hint that he is a unreliable narrator. Nothing he tells is a some point shown to be off or different. And he keeps telling the story in the last scene to the audience after he finished talking to the troops. So we might aswell just take him as a stylistic element and narrative bracket.
Pat Bateman in American Psycho is unreliable but his point of view finally falls apart. Leonard in Memento is unreliable but he is called out by the policeman. So I can't see that kind of post- modernism either.
Many Greek legends were vague and open to interpretation
Fun Fact: The Persians were monotheistic (Zoroastrianism) and didn't believe their king was a god. That misconception came from Greek envoys going to the Persian court and seeing people bow to the Persian king as a sign of respect and fealty. In Greece, men only bowed to gods so the Greeks assumed that Persians worshiped their king as a god. Xerxes didn't believe himself a god at any time.
They didn´t have youtube to discuss their concepts of eachother .... LOL
@@samdoe5845 Right. Instead they had Herodotus feeding them a bunch of BS. lol
Wow...that really improves the story!
For all intents and purposes, the Persians treated their people really well. They allowed them to keep their own religion own government.
@@johnthorsson1515 didn’t the mongols do that as well? Or am I mistaken?
”Our arrows Will blot out the sun”
”Then we Will fight in the shade”
It’s actually a true line/quote they said in history of that Battle.
What's important is they gave that line to fessbender even making it epic
i mean its a true line that was written by the writers a few decades later
@@mardtdevisser1189 your point? or just being a snarky azz?
@@mardtdevisser1189 I think you mean to say a few centuries later; but more to the point, while not an exact quote The Spartan general did say "This is great news, wait until the men hear that instead of fighting in the hot sun today we get to fight in the shade." In Spartan culture it wasn't enough to act like a badass you also needed to speak like one.
Why people ain't suggesting her to watch Zack Snyder's DCEU trilogy?
When Zack Snyder directed the movie, he literally used Frank Miller's graphic novel as his storyboards during pre-production, and then in filming he wanted this film to be as close to a literal adaptation of that graphic novel as possible. That's why it looks the way it does. It's supposed to look like paintings and drawings.
*And I wrote this before Tyler scared the crap out of you to let you know everything I just wrote above.
In other words, a hack.
It really was the perfect project for him. It loses its luster when you watch his other stiff that he's got a very limited bag of tricks.
@@EchoFoxtrot21 Not ZSJL, though.
You can say that BVS is a bunch of comic stories crammed together but Zack Snyder's Justice League has a very coherent plot.
@@Annie-ph8vq maybe. Haven't watched it yet. Not in a big hurry to do so.
@@EchoFoxtrot21It's alright.
“His helmet was stifling, it narrowed his vision. And he must see far. His shield was heavy. It threw him off balance. And his target is far away.”
*still misses*
@@zaubergurke5468 Leonidas said he'd prove that a god can bleed. Not that a god can die.
@@flatebo1 Not like men in armor wouldn't be trying to humble supposed gods in 21st century movies, right?
@@CaptainFrost32 Or even real gods.
Of course, the ancients had a much...looser conception of divinity than people do these days.
@@zaubergurke5468 He doesn't miss. It was not his intention to kill him, only to wound him. He needed the persians to lose faith in Xerxes' divinity by showing he was just a mortal.
Had he killed him a new "god" could have emerged claiming that Xerxes was an imposter.
In regards to hitting Xerxes with the spear, "If you can make god bleed, people will no longer believe in him."
"Horses are the most gentle animal." The moment I realized Natalie grew up in the city. Horses are jerks. 😂
Especially horses specifically bred and trained for battle.
haha I grew up horseback riding actually. I know horses can be jerks, but some are just so sweet and scared of everything 😂
I was petting a horse gently once and it friggin' decided to bite me on the arm while I was doing it. They are jerks!
Horses can be very gentle.. it's all about their training and how you treat them
Beware of Shetland Ponies.
One of my favorite quotes from the Spartans: Phillip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartans responded, "If."
Ironically, the scene that you said looked green screeny was one of the few scenes that they filmed outside
The whole film is framed as Dilios "telling the story" of the 300. In this light, the more fantastical things depicted are meant to be artistic embellishments created by an unreliable narrator. Thus you have Persians depicted as soulless monsters, Xerxes depicted as a giant, Ephialties portrayed as twisted and monstrous, etc. That's my take anyway.
That is usual excuse and it's a good one but it doesn't quite hold up. First a few things, like explosives and the rhino, are not things Dilios would have even known about. Second several of the attitudes he's expressing are not ones a Spartan would have held, such as a hatred for superstition and a distrust of religion and insulting the Athenians by calling them "boy-lovers" (the Spartans were VERY superstitious and religious and had no issue with older men sleeping with disturbingly young boys) and some inaccuracies are not ones a Spartan would have got wrong (example: the Ephors were not inbred priests, they were the ruling council of Sparta). Finally the end at the battle of Platea which is where Dilios is telling the story (thus presumably meant to be real life) still has the Spartans in their posing pouches instead of the armour they would have been wearing and still running forward like berzerkers instead of maintaining close formation.
Don't get me wrong, love the film, just that that the storyteller explanation doesn't cover all.
@@GriffinPilgrim mate it’s a film based on a graphic novel, chill
Your points on Spartan culture might be legit, but as far as the portrayal of the battle goes, you're assuming that Dilios was trying to give a factually account of events, rather than telling a propagandistic tale to rouse an army. Rhinos? Troll dudes? Towering, booming-voiced Xerxes? None of it needed to be accurate. If you need an explanation, watch 'Big Fish'.
@@highfunctioningsociopath4761 yeah...
Cause Rhinos is really fantastical beast that do NOT exist right?...
Same. Movies by unreliable narrators tend to embellish or be propagandistic in their very nature, and it is always entertaining to see people try to take this on face value.
*Natalie planning to look at 300 from a historical perspective.*
Oh, honey.
What, are you implying that giant... ogre... monster... thingies weren't a stable of the Persian army in the V century BC?
This is madness!
The funny thing is the film is very accurate to the Spartan accounts of the battle of Thermopile.
Its the Spartan accounts of the battle of Thermopile that are complete fantasy.
Even the armor is wrong in this movie, nothing historical about it. The film is fantasy, but it's fun
@@lordloverocket81 say again?
The narration is key, as Frank Millar's writing gave such a power voice to the graphic novel. Also, you did well to pick up on the illustrated quality of the cinematography. Zack Snyder tried to recreate many of the iconic frames from the book. You can see this same dedication from the directors adapting Frank Millar's Sin City, as well. Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez know how to respect legendary works of art.
Fun fact: If I remember this correctly, Persia's elite corps, The Immortals, got that name from the tradition that its numbers were constant. If a member died, or retired, the spot would be immediately filled to match the standing strength of the military organization.
Some actual historical notes:
1. The Spartans killed the envoys as a message to their own people. One of the Spartans Kings was exiled in Persia and some Spartans supported him.
2. The brutal culling of Spartan boys was real. Training did start at age seven and was absurdly hard and cruel.
3. The love between King and Queen wasn't supposed to happen. Love gets in the way of service of the state. Couples fell in love anyway because, people.
2. That’s what made them the greatest warriors of their age
Kings were actually exempt from the agoge, the grueling Spartan training regimen.
makes sense, it's the loss of these values which has put the world in peril right now
@@smallhatshatethetruth7933 A collectivist society touting celibate warrior drones belonging to what is effectively a cult of death is hardly a model one. As Ben Franklin said, those who put security before freedom deserve neither.
@@acdragonrider not THAT great all in all. Athenians who were supposedly mollified by all their theatre and philosophy and stuff also managed perfectly well to kick ass if necessary. The Peloponnesian War ended with Sparta's victory but it was a very pointless one - both powers were basically in tatters at that point.
"Oright dude we get it you wanted a line" when michael fassbender wants to speak he will speak 🤣
This looks greenscreened.
This feels like a book.
This feels like a video game.
This feels like an illustration.
Soooo close to saying it looks like a comic.
God I was waiting for it! ... This is severe RUclips edging.
She even said it looks like we're reading a book WITH illustrations lmao
Then I'm like ''So like a comic book?'' 😂
Comic book or even graphic novel would be more specific.
Maybe she's not that familiar with comics
If I remember well, she did watch Marvel movies, but those are movies, took mostly the story elements from comics
yah its one of my favorite comics
don't recall if you have seen The Last Samurai yet with Tom Cruise, but there is a part towards the end when Tom tells the Samurai general about Thermapoli and the 300 Spartans.
Natalie, if you see his comment - watch Last Samurai. It is INCREDIBLY good. A lot of emotional heart to it, more so than 300, even though I do really enjoy 300.
@@Tzoppo11 Fighting to the death for your country has a lot of heart to it
YESS she needs to watch The Last Samurai!
@@Tzoppo11 It's still not historically accurate, but it's also much more enjoyable to watch if you're wanting something historically *believable,* since, y'know, no fantasy elements in it.
@@acdragonrider Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. The old lie.
You kept asking "Is this a horror movie?"...sweetheart, life at this time in history was a horror movie!
"Is this foreshadowing for the battle?"
Damn she was right, I've seen this movie like 5 times and still hadn't made the connection between the wolf scene and the bottleneck battle scene.
I am not smart.
I've seen this movie in theaters man and then 100 times after and NEVER thought of that. Just thought it was a G moment from the boy. But she is completely right about that, being it Leonidas also. What a foreshadow thank you!
It was. The whole plan of holding Thermopylae was to bottleneck the Persians and keep them in a narrow pass. That somehow made their numbers feel less daunting. It worked for a while had the Persians not known about the rear flank.
Same , i watched the movie over 1000 times and just found out lmaooo
It's not you. Give yourself a little more credit. The reason you couldn't make a connection was because this garbage was written and directed by Zach Snyder. Zach Snyder is one of the worst writers and directors in Hollywood in the last 20 years. This is why you couldn't make the connection.
@@johnsonspark171 Cool scenes is cool scenes, I guess.
THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!!! So glad you watched this 💯🤘🏿
😎😎😎
I live how this movie is a retelling of a battle and the man telling the story with really embellishing the battle .. and it's his retelling is what we see not what actually happened.. it's a masterpiece
The Last Samurai is so amazing. Hands down Tom Cruises best movie he's ever done. Braveheart is also amazing.
Few Good Men? Rainman? Jerry Maquire? Valkyrie? Risky Business? Collateral? More...? Hands not down.
@@TedBrogan Opinion? He's made other good movies. I think Last Samurai is his best.
@@SageNemesis Yea, but is it "Hands down" his best? Are you including my hands? ................................ Because one of my hands is...
Last Samurai was not Cruise's best movie (I'd say that goes to Interview with a Vampire) but it was the best movie Cruise was in.
Part of that is because although he is sort of the centerpiece of the film, and it sort of revolves around him, it's not really ABOUT him, if that makes sense.
They did an amazing job putting ancient Japanese culture front and center.
@@TedBrogan Easy killer. It's called a figure of speech. It is hands down his best. IN MY OPINION. Your hands can be wherever you want them to be, doesn't change my opinion. Obviously you're welcome to disagree.
Have you never heard that term before (hands down)? Is Tom Cruise like, your favorite actor on planet Earth and I upset you with my pick? Or did my opinion just upset you that much?
Michael Fassbender was so epic in this movie.
Omg...... I just realized. 😲
By far and away my most enjoyable film with him in was Eden lake, real British chav violent film.
Since you’ve seen Gladiator and now 300, I think you’ll enjoy Troy if you haven’t seen it. Keep up the reactions, you’re carrying quarantine right now not even gone lie.
But watch the Director’s Cut of Troy. It has a few scenes that were not in the theatrical version that make it a much better viewing experience by comparison. The Director’s Cut of Troy is the definitive version in my opinion.
And Spartacus!
@@ruthl3ssstudio163 yes how could I forget!?!?!?
The movie is based on a graphic novel by Frank Miller, and followed the success of the Sin City movie, that sparked a lot of graphic novel movies adaptations.
This movie was in production before Sin City , but released after it. Its coming to being has nothing to do with Sin City.
Speaking of Sin City - that could be a good one to react to.
@@markfilla9305 Another great movie that she won't understand. She'll just WiKi it and say it's a story about Las Vegas and that it's not historically accurate.
@@markfilla9305 Was thinking the same thing. She'd love it. Well, until the Elijah Wood scene happens...
“Spartans! Lay down your weapons!”
“Persians! Come and get them!”
Molon labe
@@johnfriday5169 still relevant today.
It's funny tho that frank Miller mad the persiabs seem like enslaved, when the spartan were way more brutal with slaves
@@johnfriday5169 later said during the American Revolution, and then at the Battle of Gonzalez during the Texas Revolution.
“Main character never dies”
300: OK
It’s funny how Leonaidas calls Athenians boy lovers but the Spartans were more infamous for it.
not boys, MEN!
@@ZannNewman Boys, actually. Pederasty was extremely prominent in ancient Greece, and especially in Sparta.
nah
@@TonyDracon Yes. Sad but true.
In a similar vein, another weird distortion of historical reality in this movie is how the Persians are depicted as brutal slavers with all those whips and chains, whereas in reality, the Persian Empire of that time was one of the very few ancient empires not built on slavery while the Spartans were very much brutal slavers.
"Feels like a illustration"
Frank Miller is some where like: "yerp"
Dreams of an R-rated ELEKTRA:ASSASSIN mini-series faithful to the comic.
"We have moved ahead technologically to a point where the excitement of the drawing can be translated onto the screen. So, I can see Gerard Butler in combat; but the sky behind him looks to me like it was painted by Lynn Varley, who did all the colors in the original book. This way, you are able to take the readers to a brand new place where in the past only the artist’s hand could." - Frank Miller
In 345BC, King Phillip of Macedonia sent a message "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."
The Spartans replied back with one word, "If"
They started yelling "Traitor" because the money was in Persian coins.
Yeah, the coin had Xerxes' face on it.
Natalie: "Historical inaccuracies bother me.."
300 movie: *proceeds with 2hrs of historical inaccuracies*
for me there is a difference from historical revisionism to be entertaining and fantastic, and historical revisionism out of ignorance or in service of an agenda.
Xerxes didn't use mutants and war rhinos?
@@danilooliveira6580 Yeah, the movie is supposed to be Faramir telling the story. And like many good storytellers, he doesn't let pesky things like truth and accuracy get in the way of a good story. True today, but damn true in ancient Greece. Up until a like the 1800s or something, historians just kind of assumed Troy wasn't a real place because of all the bullshit the Greeks tacked onto their stories about it.
tl;dr: Sword-hands guy is there for atmosphere.
@@frigginjerk true, but that is not my point. what I'm saying is that you shouldn't be afraid of writing a fantastic story just because you are afraid of not being historically accurate. what you can't do is then proceed to sell it as historical.
While what we today commonly refer to as MYTHS are largely ancient works of "folklore" (meant to "explain" the things that nobody understood), a good portion of the mythological stories were dramatized reinterpretations of historical events where the details that people DID remember were "sketchy" at best. (Traditionally, they portrayed one's homeland/people in the most flattering terms and demonized their opposition; the TRUTH of that history may be SOMEWHERE in those stories, but finding the EVIDENCE to establish it is improbable.)
This movie could be called a "fictional myth", since it portrays a REAL event through the lens of a MYTHICAL retelling by a (likely) FICTIONAL participant in the event.
"... that even a god king can bleed." Wait...
"Do you bleed? You will." It has the same energy.
Also, even younger Magneto.
Zack Snyder seems to have a thing about making powerful people bleed lol
Snyder, baby
Why people ain't suggesting her to watch Zack Snyder's DCEU trilogy?
@@vardanrastogi8600 I already did plenty of times, just gotta bring other people in as well.
@@yash1140 then keep trying.
Thermopylae means "the hot gates"; a perfect name for an epic battle.
I’ve always called it the, “The Hot Cakes” it makes me think of pancakes 😂🤤
From the ancient Greek words thermo and pylae, meaning heat, and a narrow pass.
So much so there have been many battles there as Greek leaders want to larp as Leonidas and end up getting beaten the same way when locals show the other army the secret passes.
There's a really excellent book, "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield, that came out in 1998, about the Battle of Thermopylae. At one point, there was some effort going on to make it into a movie. 300 was made first, practically guaranteeing that Gates of Fire will never be made into a movie. 300 is good in its own way, but as a history geek I like how Gates of Fire gives more depth to ancient Greek and Spartan culture, and how it explains the events and history before the battle.
Gates of Fire really deserves to be a mini series like Rome or Spartacus or Game of Thrones.
The historical last meeting between King Leonidas and Queen Gorgo--
Queen Gorgo: Come back with your shield, or on it.
King Leonidas: If I do not return, marry a good man, and have strong children.
Yeah, hugging, kissing, and romance didn't really exist in ancient Sparta.
The sequel was decent.
Any time the Spartans shout "ah-uh" in this or the sequel, gives me chills.
I watched this in the IMAX and every time they shouted that, it was deafening.
*"Is this foreshadowing, for the battle?"*
lol Smart cookie.
Me going "what? what are you talking... wait... yes! YES it is, you're right!"
I think you meant to say: "Clever girl."
This IS the battle.. ahhaha
Around 346 BCE, during the later campaigns of the Third Sacred War, Philip II of Macedon was conquering the Greek city-states far and wide. He sent a message to the Spartans saying "If I invade Lakonia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartans replied with one word: If. Philip II chose to leave Sparta alone.
Not because of that message though, mostly Sparta was a shell of a state and didn't matter anymore. It was promptly largely ignored for centuries as a meaningless backwater. But it makes for a good story.
@@mormacil I know. Sparta was never an agricultural 'paradise' nor a strategically located city-state however, it fully articulates their terse and bellicose nature.
I'd lay even odds he'd have won tho; That family was really bad at losing.
I heard that was Alexander the Great who sent the message, not his father Phillip II.
@@GriffinPilgrim Philip wasn't just a great strategist, he could also somewhat rule. That alone makes him the better man then Alexander in my book, a kid that overspecialized in field battles :P
After invading Greece and receiving the submission of other key city-states, Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta: "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again."
Spartan reply: "If"
Funny that they never did invade.
They had a thing about answering with as few words as possible.
Laconic
@@mwrittle proper description
Sparta at the time of Philip II was nothing more than a shadow of its former self. Beaten by Thebes and later by Philip and Alexander in several battles.
and then one generation later , Sparta kinda bend to the persians when they were losing a war to others greeks, and then became really pacifist when roma conquer them, many greeks revolt, but not sparta
Tyler: "Nerd sense... tingling, someone in this house is WRONG ON THE INTERNET!" *runs off* lol
It's like Stephen Colbert said when the movie came out. It's the story of how 300 Spartans and their 1600 abs defeated the Persians.
edit* Maybe it was 1800 abs. It's been over a decade.
When Colbert was funny
@@tbirdUCW6ReAJ thats the only funny thing ive heard from him... and most likely it was from his writers XD
That's 5 1/3 abs per person. Good math, Steve!
Yes back when he tried to be funny and was still working for John Stewart. Now he literally became the character that he used to parody.
King of Math lmao
A sad story is the one of Dillios (actual name is Aristodemus), he was sent back because of his eye and was spit on by the Spartans because they thought he was a coward for not dying with the others. Later in the battle of Platea, he charged in berserk mode against the Persians trying to redeem himself and was killed, and the Spartans still thought he was a coward who just wanted to get killed.
Well thousands of years later a movie was made with him fighting bravely and saying the most epic speech of all time, so in a sense he was finally recognized, a couple thousand years later.
Sometimes I forget that this was Michael Fassbender's first major film appearance.
I didn't realize it was him until just now. It's been so long since I watched this movie.
He was in Band of Brothers as well
It's always a good idea to check IMDb before making this kind of statement.
@@richieclean Sorry dude. I did check Wikipedia and it's his first listing there. Although looking at IMDb, all of his earlier credits were in television and made-for-TV movies, so I don't feel I was that inaccurate. I've edited my comment to include "major" film appearance.
@@richieclean he said first "major" film appearance. Can you name another major role in a movie before this one? Cos this was his first movie
True Epic Spartan Story: After invading Greece and receiving the submission of other key city-states, Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta: "If I invade Laconia you will be destroyed, never to rise again." The Spartan replied with a single word: "If"
😎😎😎
Then Phillip's son went and did it anyways.
Spartans were really the one-liners greek trolls of the day.
Laconic
Fun fact 324: Efialtes, the name of the character that betrayed the Spartans, means "nightmare" in Greek.
It's Ephialtes
So either Greek historians purposefully buried his real name, or his parents really didn't like him.
that "then we'll fight in the shade" line was a real line in history the Spartans were trained to be super Whitty and it was said in response to hearing an army arrows will block out the shade
It might be pointed out that since no Spartans survived that encounter, that quote was saved by the Persians whom they fought.
@@Leon-wz1js lots of Greeks survived the fight, and I think at least one Spartan. They didn't survive the final day, but that's a different matter.
@@clarkbarrett6274 I wasn't talking about the encounter of the day, but the encounter of the Spartans and the Persians, so, yeah, we're in the different matter category.
The original quote was even more badass-it was delivered with a grateful smile, because the weather forecast called for hot sun, but now they’d be cooled by the shadow of the arrow cloud.
Thanks for the arrows, kind stranger!
Faramir, Captain of Gondor, showing his quality:
Natalie: So is he the hype man?
It's just a movie. The Gods saw fit to grace him with a spare.
I love that there were only two ways for a Spartan to earn the right to have their name on their tombstone. A man could get it by dying in battle, or a woman could by dying in childbirth.
The, for me, most important thing about this movie is that it's a story being told, everything supernatural and all the slow-motion and the vivid backgrounds make perfect sense when you understand that it's a story told by Dilios (David Wenham/Faramir from LotR) to hype up the troops before the big battle against the persians. Of course the Spartans are basically superheroes, it's called artistic license. Dilios is, in his story, turning them into superheroes.
That's why the fat guy with sword arms makes sense, it's why the monstrous rhino makes sense, it's why the portrayal of Xerxes makes sense, it's why Ephialtes looks extra disfigured. In the story Dilios is telling they are the monsters and the Spartans are the heroes.
Was going to say this myself.
Dilios was never one to let the truth get in the way of a good story
That is usual excuse and it's a good one but it doesn't quite hold up. First a few things, like explosives and the rhino, are not things Dilios would have even known about. Second several of the attitudes he's expressing are not ones a Spartan would have held, such as a hatred for superstition and a distrust of religion and insulting the Athenians by calling them "boy-lovers" (the Spartans were VERY superstitious and religious and had no issue with older men sleeping with disturbingly young boys) and some inaccuracies are not ones a Spartan would have got wrong (example: the Ephors were not inbred priests, they were the ruling council of Sparta). Finally the end at the battle of Platea which is where Dilios is telling the story (thus presumably meant to be real life) still has the Spartans in their posing pouches instead of the armour they would have been wearing and still running forward like berzerkers instead of maintaining close formation.
Don't get me wrong, love the film, just that that the storyteller explanation doesn't cover all.
What are you doing here Eric wow 😳 a pleasant surprise.
Love your Avatar reactions
Fun fact: Xerxes is played by the guy who is Laura Linney's love interest in Love Actually. Imagine how that movie would be like with a seven-foot Persian god-king strutting around a London magazine office.
He's also the cowboy outlaw in Westworld. You almost can't tell
A year late, but the reason Leonidas went with three hundred personal bodyguard, was because he couldn’t go to war without permission, but the law also said that if a spartan king was killed, Sparta must go to war. So he sacrificed himself so Sparta could fight and survive.
“I like to be authentically surprised.”
Tyler evidently knows this about you
Nat: "OMG he's so stoic he's like a statue."
Gerard: "Tell David to add dragons to this tale!"
I understood that reference!
I'm from Brazil and the actor who plays King Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro) is very popular around here. When I heard he was in this movie, I watched it looking for him everywhere, not finding him. I had to Google who he was playing and when I found out, my brain exploded.
The Last Samurai is an INCREDIBLE film, definitely would be a great one to react to as well! It won't be what you're expecting - even with me saying that.
Had the same thoughts
Katsumoto: "¿What happened to the warriors at Thermopylae?"
Algren: "Dead to the last man"
White savior flick.
@@lalalarose8197 I understand assuming that from the optics of the film but 'The Last Samurai' is not Tom Cruise's character, and the character he plays is nothing but the audience surrogate that witnesses (and unsuccessfully helps) the important characters and events of the film. It's one of the few films of its premise that _isn't_ a white saviour movie, and if anything should be recognized for that.
@@SCOLT7 If he’s just the audience’s guidepost why not have a Japanese actor play the role? If he’s so inconsequential anyone could play the role. As frustrating as it is I assume the film needed name recognition that someone like Cruise brings.
“That double zoom was unnecessary.”
Welcome to the SnyderVerse.
@Ricardo Alonso Rojas ironically there isn't much shaky cam in this movie
The distance and accuracy of that throw of the spear was so amazing, that we know of its history to this day. It wasn't a normal man's throw haha
As a history nerd, I also didn't get the fantasy/magic/monsters elements of this film, until someone pointed out to me that we're not seeing the battle as it happened...we're getting the NARRATOR'S slightly exaggerated tale of the events. Hence the monsters and such.
He was trying to kill Xerxes, but they were honest enough to history not to portray that, since in history, Lionitis died there, Xerxes did not.
The best historians study what the people they study believed. The worst inject their own pathologies into the record.
Indeed. One thing a lot of people miss, or just don't know the style, with the comic and the movie was that it was told and presented as if you were watching it in a Greek Theater. So all the action of the characters is in one spot or side, with the main actors standing out starkly from the background. The narrator giving the summary of the events as they unfold, greatly exaggerating heroic feats and enemies.
@@mudageki Every historian studies their subject's beliefs. This is a silly comment.
It's not just exaggerated, it's being told to inspire the troops at the end who are about to run into a battle where they'll be outnumbered 3-to-1. It's exaggerated for a purpose, with all of the elements heightened, to galvanize the soldiers before war.
Also, the intent of the story is to highlight the heroic nature of the sacrifice of Leonidas and the 300, not have a hero defeat a baddie. According to Frank Miller himself: "It is not a happy story, though it is inspiring, and it doesn’t have a happy ending. But I believe it gets to the heart of what a hero really is. A hero is someone who does the right thing for his tribe, for his honor and for his society because it is right and not to be rewarded in any material sense or to even be given credit of any kind. My heroes may die disgraced, while they may be the only ones who know that it isn’t true, but they also know they have done the right thing."
Because this story was based off of a graphic novel inspirational retelling and not the detail actual history.
You have to understand, it's based not on the historical Battle of Thermopylae but rather Frank Miller's comic "300" which is more a "fantasy" retelling of the event. Once you have your head around that, the movie is awesome.
Quite right. The movie is fun and entertaining, but if one wants to actually learn about Thermopylae or the greater world of the ancient Greeks, read a book.
Indeed. I enjoy history accuracy, but sometimes fiction inspired by history can be enjoyable too. "300" clearly portray itself as fiction, so there is no dishonesty. As a pure action movie it excels.
Also, we aren't watching the battle. We're watching one soldier's retelling of the battle as he looks to inspire the next wave of soldiers. That's why everything is exaggerated and larger than life, because his tale is making their deeds look even greater.
The guy in real life said ‘Then we will fight in the shade’. The Spartans really were that badass.
No. This is part of the legend but there is absolutely no actual evidence about what was or was not said one way or the other -- obviously, since all but two men (Aristodemus and Pantites) died at the site and neither saw battle nor left any record of anything they did or saw one way or the other. The only semi-contemporaneous account is courtesy of Herodotus who was 4 years old at the time of the battle, so was not there. And, whatever the importance of the man and his writings, the literal accuracy of Herodotus' histories is...umm... questionable, to say the least. The whole "We will fight in the shade" thing is just a macho one-liner invented after-the-fact. The Greek equivalent of a Schwarzenegger zinger.
@@kpe727 well, that schooled me. Nice to imagine though :’)
Tbh it is hard to tell with them. The Spartans really did say that sort of stuff all the time
@@kpe727 well you as well base your searches it seems on Wikipedia pages but you should not Wikipedia is a pod. public open document you should research unbiased books made by award winning historians. Indeed the Spartans said those one liners, its basic history now If you only referring to the line we will fight in the shade thats a different thing. Also since we don't have enough sources to analyse the events that occurred whats left but to trust the statements of the old we found, heredotus and more
Can I just say that I love your method of censoring the movie while stating what's still happening.
Fun fact: Historically, the reason the Spartans kicked the Persian messenger into a pit was because a previous Persian messenger visited Athens demanding Earth and water and the Athenians kicked the messenger off their docks and into the ocean. Athens provided the water, Sparta provided the Earth.
best "I got your back" pledge ever.
Athens, unlike Sparta, actually won their part of this battle. Sparta made good warriors but were a joke in organized warfare. Argos and Thebes had the badass armies and Athens had the unstoppable navy. the only place a Spartan really shined was the Olympics where individual skill actually mattered.
@@davidkelly4210 Didn't they thoroughly lose to Thebes in wrestling?
@@davidkelly4210 I'm not sure where you got the idea that the Spartans sucked at organized warfare. At its peak the Spartan army was the leading land warfare force in Greece, and probably in the ancient Mediterranean as a whole. The Spartans provided a strong core of the force that finally defeated the Persians at the battle of Plataea. When Athens fought them in the Peloponnesian War, the Athenians actually developed a strategy that refused to engage the Spartans in open battle while wearing them down elsewhere (it didn't work). Even their small force at Thermopylae was disciplined and tough (you had to be tough to be a phalanx hoplite). In the end, of course, the Spartans became too elitist and domineering and it led to their downfall. Sic transit gloria mundi....
They lost at Thermopylae because 1. they were really outnumbered, 2. the Persians got behind them, and 3). Leonidas decided he was going to die where he stood.
18:14 , How did he miss? He was miles away. 🤣 it's a huge accomplishment to even Cut xerxes amidst all that fighting going around Leonidas
"Feels like an illustrated book." 'Based on the graphic novel by Frank Miller' lol
Edit: Also, the very short and almost 'one liner' way of speaking is actually based on how the Spartans spoke.
Phillip of Macedon once said something along the lines of "If I come down there, I will burn down your city, slaughter its people, etc."
The Spartan king wrote back a reply that only said 'If.'
While the events ticked off the historical points, this is a over-the-top version based on a Comic Book by Frank Miller who also did one of the Batman stories. There is an excellent History Channel (When they did history) about BOTH the 300 and 300 Rise of an Empire movies. I was able for my own personal viewing to re-edit both movies into one 3 hour version and the timeline was perfect. This is Gerald Bulter's breakout movie btw. The movie does not include the 1000 additional troops or the sea battle that was happening simultaneously (300 Rise of an Empire was the sea battle) I had recently re-watched the movie. Actually fact, Then we will fight in the shade is an actual line. And No Retreat - No Surrender is used currently in today's US Military.
Most of the major quotes are real. Or at least, historically claimed.
I still have 300 Rise of an Empire in my queue. Looking forward to it.
historical fact: the movie is called 300, but in reality in the battle of thermopile there were more then just 300 greeks. there were 7000 greeks in total and 300 of them were Spartans. the battle lasted 3 days. the first day the Greeks killed atleast 10,000 of persia's troops, in the second day they killed another 10,000 and on the third day they killed around 5000 until after the persians found the narrow passage around to cut them off. if they had not found that passage the greeks would have pushed Persia out of greece
Thespian soldiers, the majority of those who stayed and fought to the death, never got their due. I suppose because the allied army chose the old Spartan king as overall general.
Wouldn't be the only time the ancient Thespians fought to the death, either.
Another example of prevalent details being lost in later relating of historical events, and how skewed it can be.
When it came to defending the homeland, Spartan women were trained to fight and would have been on the frontline with their husbands.
No, the Greeks were 1000 in total. 300 Spartans and 700 Thespians. Leonidas was one of the first who died in the battle, Spartans managed to take his dead body back and even when their spears and swords broke; they fought with their teeth and fingernails.
Also, it was not the Spartans but the Athenians before the battle of Marathon that thrown the Persian messengers into the well and they did it because they dare to ask them to surrender in Greek.
Lastly, Ephialtes wasn't a Spartan. After the Greco-Persian war they arrest him and hang him and even to this day the Greek word for "nightmare" is Ephialtes.
"the Persian invasion and the 2,400 abs that stood up against it"
Ryan George, 2021
Though it happened through messengers and not some little skirmish, the lines "Our arrows will blot out the sun" and "Then we will fight in the shade" were actually taken from real history. That was actually in the correspondence between the two camps before the battle began.
Spot on Natalie! It's a one view movie, and the 1960s version is more realistic and historically accurate. Interesting fact, about 15 years ago? Archeologists unearthed some broken Stone statue parts, which they believe were part of some ancient monument erected to honour the 300....it was very moving to watch the excavation of half stone statue that looked just like one of the Spartans wearing a battle helmet. They placed a new stone memorial in the same place. It really brought home the sacrifice they made.
As an adaptation of the Frank Miller graphic novel, it's pretty accurate. As a depiction of the actual Battle of Thermopylae - not so much.
It's meant to be a propaganda piece for the soldiers imo. Narrator dude is telling it to other Spartan soldiers about how brave and godlike their brothers were against the monstrous creatures and half men of Asia as they faced certain death. From that lens it's great.
In the sequel you get to see the historic event where the term "marathon" meaning running a long distance comes from.
The Battle of Thermopylae (like other legendary battles) inspires literary adaptations to embellish a tragic, but brave goal. And when the 300 died in this way, they passed into immortality.
@sunbro of astora Are you sure? That is right about the Spartans had help from the Greek hoplites of the other polis for that battle. However, when they were finally surrounded, they drove the rest of the Greek troops away of Thermopylae. Only the Thessalonians stayed with them.
@sunbro of astora Leonidas was chosen to lead the force with his 300 Hoplites (and 900 odd slaves, people always forget them). I wouldn't say they didn't play a big part.
The phrase "Molon Labe" is still remembered today. It was Leonidas's response to Xerxes, it means "come and take it".
If you open Google Earth, and find the island in the center of the Aegean Sea called "Ag Efstratios" .... follow the roads south all the way down to near the southern tip of the island.... there, you will find a symbol of a Shield and Spear (the Nikolaos Sialmas Monument), with the words Molon Labe written beside them.
Molon labe!
It’s pretty much what the women in TX said about a canon too during the Mexican -American War.
Cersei is doing good for herself. Queen of Sparta and queen of the seven kingdoms of Westeros.
And yes, Leonidas showed that “even god kings can bleed”
Maybe the most famous last stand in history, those 300 men are still remembered
You are right. Everyone always forgets the 700 Thespians and 900 helots.
And totally forget the 6000 Greeks who were present until the goat path was discovered.
My favourite part about this subject is that I can say "my Grandfather fought at the Battle of Thermopylae before he was taken prisoner by the Nazis and spent the rest of the war in Colditz". It never ceases to get a reaction but it's totally true... it was the Fifth Battle of Thermopylae, in 1941.
The actual historical battle is actually much more interesting than the movie. The Spartan Phalanx was one of the most incredible methods of war to behold, and truly encapsulated the concept of Greek logic.
And their inability to adapt.
They even kept their tradition when the Romans were obviously even more successful with their improved version.
No there was no "Spartan" phalanx there was just the Hoplite Phalanx, there was nothing different about the Spartan formations. All the Greek City states used the same formations during the classical period. The difference was in training and ethos.
@@Naeron66 you are correct, I realized my mistake just now when I reread my comment.
“Troy” (2004) is a great Greek epic movie, historically based, starring Brad Pitt, Eric Bana, Orlando Bloom, and Peter O’Toole. Some critics panned it, but I always thought it was underappreciated. The Director’s Cut is the way to go.
I actually recommend *not* using the Director's cut. It's longer sure, but the music is terrible in it. They changed much of the score and lost the feeling the original had. Particularly the epic 1v1 duel (not saying who to avoid spoilers in case Natalie does see this), the music in the original scene is far superior than the one in the Director's Cut.
It was also criticized for the plane you can see in frame but this is supposed to be 1000years BC. Lol
@@scottrabie - LOL
I liked Troy but I feel it missed the point pretty badly on characterisation. I've read the Illiad, if you want a sympathetic Trojan to view the war through Hector is a good choice but Paris is a jerk and if you want a sympathetic Greek for Zeus' sake don't pick "You can all die because I'm in a snit" Achilles. "I just want to get this shit over with and go home" Odysseus will do nicely.
Also the story is way less fun with all the interfering gods taken out.
@@GriffinPilgrim Yeah, considering in the Illiad it was started because Aphrodite was super jealous. It's a fun adaptation of "what could have actually happened" but it does lose the fun without the gods' interference.
The History of 300 is actually pretty good (especially when you remember it's based off of a graphic novel), but in terms of the actual events it mirrors the account by Herodotus pretty closely, some comsemetic things obviously excepted.
The really irritating thing is that the film really pretends that there where only a few hundred greeks at Thermopylae, when in fact there where about 7,000 greeks fighitng in the pass, and during the final stand the Spartans where still accomapnied by about 1,000 greeks from Thespia (yes they where Thespians) and Thebes.
*edit* Also being a potter (a skilled craftsman who probably was wealthy enough to own a shop) in Ancient Greece is not the same as being a Potter in the modern world. The Hellenic cities did not have standing armies, and in most cities the army consisted of the wealthy upper middle and upper classes who could afford military equipment, and held citizenship. In times of peace they would have farms and buisnesses that they would run, and in times of war (which was pretty much every, or every other year, because Ancient Greece was a violent place) they'd pick up their shields and spears and go to fight. So while to us Potter=/=Soldier to a Theban Potter automatically meant Soldier. Where the Spartans differed was that they structured their society around a system of slaves that meant the Spartan Citizens didn't have a secondary job when they where not fighting, baisically meaning that while most Greek Cities had their citizens Soldier as a night job, the Spartans did it full time.
Also sad you didn't recognise that Faramir, Captain of Gondor, finally had a chance to prove his worth.
Ive seen this perspective in some youtube analysis before: the story we are watching here is told from the perspective of Dilios giving a campfire pep talk before the battle. The persian numbers are exaggerated, their monstrosity painted in the most ludicrous colors. The spartans are all heroes to the last man of course, because we are watching propaganda.
Gives a whole new spin to the inaccurate or unrealistic parts.
Any historical inaccuracies can be handwaved as being the hype-man's hype.
The difference between history and legend.
It's not just RUclips analysis. It's Frank Miller's actual intention: "I wanted it to sound as if it had been told by an old warrior over a campfire and to look as we would vision it while listening to him." - Frank Miller
Yeah, Spartan culture was very much a survival-of-the-fittest type of culture. Babies deemed to weak to be to fight or contribute to society were left out in the elements to die of starvation and exposure although some were often adopted by Spartan slaves. Boys were taken at a young age, age seven may actually be accurate, to train to be soldiers. All Spartan men were warriors while Spartan women were also expected to be strong and capable. A common phrase associated with Sparta is as follows: To any Spartan warrior, "Either return with your shield or on it."
Fun Fact: The agoge was about being a Spartan Citizen, so it included teaching all (boys and girls) to sing and dance.
The men also slept with the children they taught, so... yeah, that scene where Leonidas calls out the Athenians as 'boy-lovers'... big hypocrite move, there.
Yeah the movie glosses over a lot of terrible stuff about Spartans. The Spartans scream about fighting for freedom in the movie but their whole society was built on slavery. All male Spartans were only soldiers as the movie correctly said. So who did all the actual work? Slaves. The Spartans enslaved a whole people called Helots (and occasionally killed lots of them to keep them in line)
@@andrewward5891 I believe that was part of graduating as a soldier - you had to kill a slave without being found out.
That was from a documentary I watched *ages* ago, so pinches of salt and all that.
@@Rougeification - I don’t think the young Spartans were necessarily supposed to kill a slave Helot but they were expected to steal food from them to survive. Like young Leonidss in the beginning of the movie a young spartan would be expected to survive on his own in the wild and stealing food from the Helots was expected. If the kid was caught stealing by the Helots he was humiliated and could lose his shot at citizenship
@andrewward5891 Ah, that must be the original truth that led to what I heard - thanks very much for debunking the myth!
The editing on this one is *something else*, wow - hahaha
This film is not historically accurate cause it based itself on a comic of the same name
It's also told from an unreliable narrator perspective.
@John B Persia was still extremely overbearing and conquesting. It isn't like Sparta was off conquering the world. They might have been huge dickbags but they tended to keep to themselves and just hate everyone else. While Persia was expanding an Empire.
@@MaryJane-wk1ni The reason Sparta wasn't off conquering the world was their society was 100% slave based, everything but the military was performed by slavery. As a result Sparta was *constantly* putting down slave rebellions, but eventually the slaves were successful and that's what ended Sparta. Guys who idolize Sparta via 300 are usually the same folks who think the mobsters in GoodFellas were cool and that the society in Starship Troopers is a good one.
@@scottschofield5000 Never said I was idealizing them. I just don't think Persia should be praised for their conquesting either. Sparta was far more isolationist because their kingdom was extremely fragile and they didn't have the same man power as Persia to conquest and control slaves. Even tho Sparta was a shitty as city-state doesn't mean Persia was any better.
@@scottschofield5000 Plus even tho Sparta was shitty as fuck. Their heroics did alot for all the other city-states at the time. If they didn't push Persia at this battle there is a chance Greece could of been conquered and there wouldn't of been a push to keep the Persian out of Greece. The moment the "300" fell was the moment Persia started ran sacking cities and I believe sacked Athens.
The ancient state of Sparta was also known as Laconia. It's people were known, amongst other things, for their quick witted, concise speech aka one liners and comebacks. From here we get the word laconic. Another note: Persia was effectively the nice guys of the time. They generally bought out lands and used diplomacy to conquer rather than slaughter, though on occasion they got extreme. Their depiction in the movie is in line with the way the comic portrays them.
The movie was based on a graphic novel by Frank Miller. He also wrote classics like _Sin City_ , and _Batman: The Dark Knight Returns_ .
Lol then lost his fucking mind and started writing shit
@Darth Wheazius lol you got your writers wrong there bud. Alan Moore wrote those comics
"Our arrows will blot out the sun."
"Then we will fight in the shade"
----------------------------------------------------
"Spartans! Lay down your weapons!"
"Persians! Come and take them!"
-those lines were actually said in the historical record of this battle
Molon Labe!
Another good example was when Philip II of Macedon, Alexanders father wanted to take over Sparta.
When he messaged them weither he should come as friend or foe, the Spartans simply answered "Neither".
Philips next message was: "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."
To which the Spartans replied: "If", understandably neither Philip, nor Alexander ended up attempting to attack Sparta.
I was today years old when i recognized Michael Fassbender as Stelios
And the sad thing about the guy who was send back is that he was seen as a coward by the spartians back home. In the real 2nd battle he was one of the first who charged in like a berserk and killed a lot of the persians before he died and restored his honor.
Fun fact: Xerxes made his men whip the ocean for misbehaving 😂
Given back then they fully believed assaulting the ocean would offend the gods, that was a massively ballsy thing to do. Sure, it seems silly to us now, but it was a legitimate fear back then. Hell, the Odyssey is essentially one massive story about how offending Poseidon is a *terrible* idea
That's caligula
@@MrDoman-fd6yj Caligula did something similar (I think he declared war on the ocean 😂) but Xerxes did it first
@@VegetaLF7 a lot of stuff they did in the past that we see as “goofy” today was actually ballsy as fuck haha they were a bunch of mad heads
@@whistler9788 You mean like convicting an axe of murder each year instead of the guy wielding it because he hid?
Natalie : Watches 300
Me: a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
How soon till gif's in YT comments.... months? years?
I genuinely took my first ever date in school to see this movie at the cinema, i wasn't aware it was a date and thought we were just friends, i still cringe over it now
Fun fact: the reason the sky's all golden-looking in this film is that the language of the original story didn't have a word for 'blue'. They used 'bronze', meaning a bright sky, because of how brightly bronze shines when it's polished.
Lighter blue is one of the later words a language usually develops.
@@mormacil This is not universal.
@@sertaki usually doesn't mean always ;) But I'm curious to an example.
@@mormacil I don't have one and don't care enough to look that up.
But by stating a universal claim, you put the burden of proof upon yourself to actually show your claim is right. ;)
Who stated a universal claim?
Can we take a moment to consider how Tyler "...scared the shit out of [Natalie]..." and didn't even stop to say sorry.
Her reaction to Suddenly Tyler was scarier than actual Suddenly Tyler.
You can't stop to apologize when you have an "um, actually..." straining to get out of your mouth.
The original battle of Thermopylae had 300 Spartans and a few thousand other Greeks from various cities states, though the majority were from Athens. The legend of there only being just the 300 Spartans came from Sparta itself as they were masters at spreading propaganda to demoralize their enemies and flex on their neighbors.
There were 300 Spartans among the army of several thousand Greeks. And the 300 Spartans did all die in the battle. They held off the Persians so the rest of the army could retreat safely after the Persians were tipped off about the pass above the Greeks.
Fun fact, in real life Leonidas didn't kill the messenger. The king before him did, but Leonidas definitely picked up where the other king left off.