To learn more about how the Focus And Frame Cohort will help you apply these and other concepts to your photography - click here: www.thephotographiceye.info/focus-frame-cohort
You could truly teach ANYTHING and I'd listen. I just like your energy. But your intro REALLY struck me. Because I >do< do that. I just run on instinct, but that's hit or miss. Thank you for sharing this. What a great video to share. Thank you so much!
I'm often intrigued by those who say they don't learn the "rules" of composition, or that they won't teach them to their students in workshops. The problem is not these so-called "rules" - they should really be called guidelines. The issue is that too many people only learn the "rule", but not the why the so-called "rule" is called a "rule". You've done a great job of explaining why the "rule" of thirds exists - to provide dynamics and balance. Once we know the why of the "rules", we can know when to apply (or not apply) in order to get a more meaningful image. Well done!
Thank you, Terry. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and respond with that thoughtful comment. I believe that when you take time to talk about the why, it makes the foundations of things like composition a lot more useful
This is great, Alex! It's like playing music by ear and then learning the theory about why it works. Composing by gut is fine but sometimes its takes me awhile until the image feels just right. If I had some tools I could get to that feeling much quicker. Thank you, Alex.
Thanks for the video, interesting , as ever. I've never been one to adhere to too many rules. They have their place but I constantly break things like the rule of 3rds and others. Over years of shooting one instinctively knows what feels right and wrong, like lighting in a room, the layout of furniture or a garden, there are many ways and "feelings". It's just as important to recognise when something doesn't look right too.
@@ThePhotographicEye To the viewer, the vanishing point serves a different purpose. When a picture/painting gets too busy or cluttered, the vanishing point serves as a way to visually exit the picture.
Interesting that you mention lines, shapes, patterns, and colours as the elements of composition in terms of guiding the eye. Just as important for me are points. And I don't literally mean dimensionless points. They could be very small area of highlight (e.g. flare); or the place where lines intersect (not just rule of thirds, but any lines); or the ends of lines (what it is that you're leading the eye towards); or one piece in a repeating pattern (e.g. lights in a curving set of lamp posts). In portraits, where each of the eyes is in relation to the frame and the composition as a whole. And so on. If you start to look for points, they start to become more obviously available for better or different compositions.
Thanks Gary for your comment. Thank you for bringing up point in your comment. There is a whole world of compositional tools out there. It’s so many people aren’t aware of because of this often very narrowminded view about the main aspect of composition.
There is those that plan their shots in every detail. Others use the rules and stick to them without actually understanding them. Others use the rules and do well with them. Others know them and break them. A true instinctive shooter understands the rules naturally. But they see the picture as a whole image instead of as whole composition. As a photojournalist, many times I didn’t have time to think much about composition, I has less than a second to take the shot. You have to have an eye for it and intuitively take the picture. I was an artist drawing and painting before I took up photography, it’s easy for me to think in images.
Absolutely there are times when you have moments to think about composition and then other times where it’s more based on instinct. As you’ve mentioned often, the journalists don’t have the luxury of spending ages pontificating over photograph but have to go on the gut instinct I think this is that natural understanding of why we feel certain ways about photographs comes into play
I've always thought the backlight bride coming down the stairs was just exquisite. Bill Brandt thought deeply about photography and, among the numerous perceptive things he said is his adage that "Photography is still a very new medium and everything is allowed and everything should be tried". Though, of course, I don't know that it's so new anymore.
Thank you so much for the kind words about the backlift bride. I also like that photograph very much. Well compared to painting and sculpting and all the other art forms photography is still very much in its infancy
Brilliant topic! You should be on Sky Arts channel lol. 9.29 is a lovely photo👍✔️ composition is at the top for photos. I’ve took photos and they just don’t look right no matter what I do to correct it and I’ve took some not so sharp images but I like it and realised it was down to composition. I find prime lenses make you work and think harder before taking a photograph.
Hi Alex, thanks for showing examples of Balance in our photos, it's really helpful. Especially the photo of the Groom, we can learn a lot about that photo. I do like the Composition of Herb Ritts, and other photographers you have shown in the past. Thanks For this video Alex. 😊.
I always thought rule of thirds can be elements along the lines, not just on the intersections🤔 BTW, is the audio clipping slightly towards the beginning or it might be my headphones?🤷♂️👍📸
Thanks for replying. I think there was a bit of an issue with the audio in the beginning probably because I was trying to match levels between the two different sessions and so may have an advertently raised up the level on the first audio. But thank you anyway for watching and I hope you enjoyed it
@@ThePhotographicEye Well, Alex, A good teacher knows when to turn the question back to the student. I have been pondering this for the morning, and here is where I’m at with it thus far. I think the short answer to the question is yes, and this short answer speaks to one’s first reaction to a photograph, before examining it closely. However, I am led to ask what makes for ‘balanced visual impact,’ if you will. Initially, I think of two components: structural integrity, and affective stimulation, the latter being comprised of light (and dark), and color. Structure applies to where parts of the image are within the frame. Light and dark, including shading, contributes to the relative impact of parts of the image as well, and so do different colors, including their relative saturation, hue, and luminance. What I have said so far applies to abstract images. We might add a third component of impact for images that contain recognizable ‘objects’ which evoke thoughts and feelings themselves; and different viewers may have different thoughts and feelings about such ‘objects.’ At this point, I don’t know if I am being redundant to what you have already said regarding balance. If so, then what I have said here represents my effort to thoroughly understand what you presented in this outstanding video. I hope it’s not too muddled.
Nowadays I tend to understand composition like using a recipe for cooking. Objective: make a delicious dish. How: Needs some degree of sweetness here, a bit/more sourness there, some tanginess etc. Adjust the proportion based on your taste. It doesn't have to follow a strict rule. This is cooking, not solving math equation. Applying the reasoning the photographic compositions, I see them as guidelines to construct the images. Say you want to depict balance. Shooting in 6x6 and putting the element in the middle for me makes more sense instead of shooting in landscape and applying the rule of third blindly. Of course there are more points to think about, like why we arrange the stuffs in this order? Or why put this color next to that color etc which in the end affects our mood/imagination..
My take on the father and window. It appears unbalanced to me. It is too bright and the eye is drawn to it rather than the father. I would mask it and reduce its luminosity slightly careful to not over do it.
I think we'd all be better off if we thought of the so called "rules" as "principles," then novice photographers wouldn't be so paralyzed by them. Imagine: The Principle of Thirds becomes a useful concept instead of a prison. My happy place tends to be nature photography and nature doesn't care if it's messy or chaotic or or not. Part of managing that "mess" is deciding when a "rule" works or not. If it doesn't work, does what I see through my viewfinder look balanced? Balance can be symmetrical, it can be asymmetrical. It can fill the frame or use negative space... (I also know that I grew up in a house surrounded by art exhibition catalogues and Sunday museum trips before I could read. That leaves an imprint!)
Thanks ever so much for taking the time to comment I do think that in your case growing up in a household surrounded by art to go to exhibitions gives a different perspective on these concept because you were introduced to them at a young age as ideas that can be changed and morphed over time Unlike say learning them from a book where it is a very set definition based on whoever is the author of that book is
To learn more about how the Focus And Frame Cohort will help you apply these and other concepts to your photography - click here: www.thephotographiceye.info/focus-frame-cohort
You could truly teach ANYTHING and I'd listen. I just like your energy. But your intro REALLY struck me. Because I >do< do that. I just run on instinct, but that's hit or miss. Thank you for sharing this. What a great video to share. Thank you so much!
"Learn the rules like an expert. Break them like an artist." - Pablo Picasso
I'm often intrigued by those who say they don't learn the "rules" of composition, or that they won't teach them to their students in workshops. The problem is not these so-called "rules" - they should really be called guidelines. The issue is that too many people only learn the "rule", but not the why the so-called "rule" is called a "rule".
You've done a great job of explaining why the "rule" of thirds exists - to provide dynamics and balance. Once we know the why of the "rules", we can know when to apply (or not apply) in order to get a more meaningful image.
Well done!
Thank you, Terry. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and respond with that thoughtful comment.
I believe that when you take time to talk about the why, it makes the foundations of things like composition a lot more useful
This is great, Alex! It's like playing music by ear and then learning the theory about why it works. Composing by gut is fine but sometimes its takes me awhile until the image feels just right. If I had some tools I could get to that feeling much quicker. Thank you, Alex.
Thanks for the video, interesting , as ever. I've never been one to adhere to too many rules. They have their place but I constantly break things like the rule of 3rds and others. Over years of shooting one instinctively knows what feels right and wrong, like lighting in a room, the layout of furniture or a garden, there are many ways and "feelings". It's just as important to recognise when something doesn't look right too.
A discussion that seems simple, but has a very broad impact ... Thanks so much Alex
My pleasure and thank you so much for watching. I hope that it has helped you get a better understanding of composition.
10:08. The window provides the vanishing point. Brilliant.
Thanks for watching not sure it’s vanishing point, but if that works for you then that’s pretty cool
@@ThePhotographicEye To the viewer, the vanishing point serves a different purpose. When a picture/painting gets too busy or cluttered, the vanishing point serves as a way to visually exit the picture.
Interesting that you mention lines, shapes, patterns, and colours as the elements of composition in terms of guiding the eye. Just as important for me are points. And I don't literally mean dimensionless points. They could be very small area of highlight (e.g. flare); or the place where lines intersect (not just rule of thirds, but any lines); or the ends of lines (what it is that you're leading the eye towards); or one piece in a repeating pattern (e.g. lights in a curving set of lamp posts). In portraits, where each of the eyes is in relation to the frame and the composition as a whole. And so on. If you start to look for points, they start to become more obviously available for better or different compositions.
Points = contrast: something the eye is always drawn towards.
Thanks Gary for your comment.
Thank you for bringing up point in your comment. There is a whole world of compositional tools out there. It’s so many people aren’t aware of because of this often very narrowminded view about the main aspect of composition.
There is those that plan their shots in every detail. Others use the rules and stick to them without actually understanding them. Others use the rules and do well with them. Others know them and break them. A true instinctive shooter understands the rules naturally. But they see the picture as a whole image instead of as whole composition.
As a photojournalist, many times I didn’t have time to think much about composition, I has less than a second to take the shot. You have to have an eye for it and intuitively take the picture.
I was an artist drawing and painting before I took up photography, it’s easy for me to think in images.
Absolutely there are times when you have moments to think about composition and then other times where it’s more based on instinct.
As you’ve mentioned often, the journalists don’t have the luxury of spending ages pontificating over photograph but have to go on the gut instinct
I think this is that natural understanding of why we feel certain ways about photographs comes into play
The instinctive feel for composition, rather than a blind reliance on the rule of thirds, has a deeper basis in gestalt psychology.
Love the Submarine shot
Thank you I do too! 😊
See-saws, what a great analogy, thanks, Alex
Thanks, David. I’d like to say that I came up with it but the credit has to go to a paragraph that I read in a book once!
I've always thought the backlight bride coming down the stairs was just exquisite. Bill Brandt thought deeply about photography and, among the numerous perceptive things he said is his adage that "Photography is still a very new medium and everything is allowed and everything should be tried". Though, of course, I don't know that it's so new anymore.
Thank you so much for the kind words about the backlift bride. I also like that photograph very much.
Well compared to painting and sculpting and all the other art forms photography is still very much in its infancy
Thanks for sharing.
Brilliant topic! You should be on Sky Arts channel lol. 9.29 is a lovely photo👍✔️ composition is at the top for photos. I’ve took photos and they just don’t look right no matter what I do to correct it and I’ve took some not so sharp images but I like it and realised it was down to composition. I find prime lenses make you work and think harder before taking a photograph.
Thank you for that. I appreciate you taking the time to watch.
@@ThePhotographicEye I don’t subscribe but willing to make donation to you Alex
Hi Alex, thanks for showing examples of Balance in our photos, it's really helpful. Especially the photo of the Groom, we can learn a lot about that photo. I do like the Composition of Herb Ritts, and other photographers you have shown in the past. Thanks For this video Alex. 😊.
It’s my pleasure and thank you once again for watching. It’s great to hear that you found the examples to helpful.
@@ThePhotographicEye Your welcome Alex, thanks 😊
I always thought rule of thirds can be elements along the lines, not just on the intersections🤔 BTW, is the audio clipping slightly towards the beginning or it might be my headphones?🤷♂️👍📸
Thanks for replying. I think there was a bit of an issue with the audio in the beginning probably because I was trying to match levels between the two different sessions and so may have an advertently raised up the level on the first audio.
But thank you anyway for watching and I hope you enjoyed it
Yes, tools not rules! I say that all the time
Hello, Alex, I wonder if you would consider the relative visual impact of each part of an image as contributing to the composition’s overall balance?
Hi Douglas
I would ask you, what do you think in answer to your own question?
@@ThePhotographicEye Well, Alex,
A good teacher knows when to turn the question back to the student. I have been pondering this for the morning, and here is where I’m at with it thus far. I think the short answer to the question is yes, and this short answer speaks to one’s first reaction to a photograph, before examining it closely. However, I am led to ask what makes for ‘balanced visual impact,’ if you will. Initially, I think of two components: structural integrity, and affective stimulation, the latter being comprised of light (and dark), and color. Structure applies to where parts of the image are within the frame. Light and dark, including shading, contributes to the relative impact of parts of the image as well, and so do different colors, including their relative saturation, hue, and luminance. What I have said so far applies to abstract images. We might add a third component of impact for images that contain recognizable ‘objects’ which evoke thoughts and feelings themselves; and different viewers may have different thoughts and feelings about such ‘objects.’ At this point, I don’t know if I am being redundant to what you have already said regarding balance. If so, then what I have said here represents my effort to thoroughly understand what you presented in this outstanding video. I hope it’s not too muddled.
Nowadays I tend to understand composition like using a recipe for cooking.
Objective: make a delicious dish.
How: Needs some degree of sweetness here, a bit/more sourness there, some tanginess etc. Adjust the proportion based on your taste.
It doesn't have to follow a strict rule. This is cooking, not solving math equation.
Applying the reasoning the photographic compositions, I see them as guidelines to construct the images. Say you want to depict balance. Shooting in 6x6 and putting the element in the middle for me makes more sense instead of shooting in landscape and applying the rule of third blindly. Of course there are more points to think about, like why we arrange the stuffs in this order? Or why put this color next to that color etc which in the end affects our mood/imagination..
Yes, that analogy and comparison between photography and cooking I think it’s very apt and can be applied to a number of aspects
Thank you
Had never thought of manipulating the viewer through the photo, balancing (or not) as Is envisioned as the creator/ artist/ photographer.
I’m glad that this video could give you a different perspective on things thank you so much for watching
My take on the father and window. It appears unbalanced to me. It is too bright and the eye is drawn to it rather than the father. I would mask it and reduce its luminosity slightly careful to not over do it.
I think we'd all be better off if we thought of the so called "rules" as "principles," then novice photographers wouldn't be so paralyzed by them. Imagine: The Principle of Thirds becomes a useful concept instead of a prison.
My happy place tends to be nature photography and nature doesn't care if it's messy or chaotic or or not. Part of managing that "mess" is deciding when a "rule" works or not. If it doesn't work, does what I see through my viewfinder look balanced? Balance can be symmetrical, it can be asymmetrical. It can fill the frame or use negative space...
(I also know that I grew up in a house surrounded by art exhibition catalogues and Sunday museum trips before I could read. That leaves an imprint!)
I've always thought of it as "suggestion" of thirds. A totally fluid concept that's much more abstract than a "rule".
Thanks ever so much for taking the time to comment
I do think that in your case growing up in a household surrounded by art to go to exhibitions gives a different perspective on these concept because you were introduced to them at a young age as ideas that can be changed and morphed over time
Unlike say learning them from a book where it is a very set definition based on whoever is the author of that book is
@@ThePhotographicEye, it was on the level of osmosis, just from seeing things. :)
Sounds very interesting! Seems there is a real challenge ahead. Anyway: seeing the video makes me looking forward to the experience in November!
Thanks, Peter
Looking forward to seeing you there
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