When I was 15 years old all the guys in school wanted to play guitar for the babes. I however wanted to play banjo instead and I got into the Kingston Trio and Johnny Cash. The Trio played at the Plymouth Memorial Hall and I sat front row. After the show they came out to sign records and I had my opportunity! I ran out to the car to grab my banjo and asked them if they would sign it. When I opened the case they all asked, “what is it?” I said, “what do you mean what is it? It’s a five string banjo!” We all laughed and George Grove was kind enough to show me some things and we played a bit. I showed him my style of playing which is a combination of multiple styles. A moment I’ll never forget and such an underrated influencing group.
This is the best group ever especially if you count the John Stewart years. January 26, 2020 saw the passing of Bob Shane the last of this great group. I'm grateful we can listen to recordings like this until I'm past my time.
I think all those things you are saying about Dave Guard are pretty much true. The sad part about him leaving Bob and Nick in 1961 is that they were actually sounding better and playing better than they ever did. That last album that he did with them, "Goin' Places" has some real gems on it and they have stayed classics for years. Songs like this one, "You're gonna miss me", Pastures of Plenty, This Land is your Land, and on and on. Classics. On the other hand, John Stewart gave them some new direction with his style and songwriting. The trio was still able to maintain it's spirit and enthusiasm for the next few years with John with songs such as "Where have all the Flowers Gone", and "Greenback Dollar", and "Reverend Mr. Black" just to name a couple. Thanks for posting this song.
Dave’s dry,dry wit was a great part of the original trio. He was one of a kind person who helped shape the way for many groups of musical groups that followed .
I agree with all you guys that this is the best daggone version of this song ever put out. This one really kicks butt. My friends and I just went to see the great current trio with George Grove, Bill Zorn, and Rick Dougherty and they included this song and "Rider" and "To Morrow." We were flabbergasted because we love these songs and only diehard Trio fans know them. Thankfully they have chosen to include them in their act. They even did "Road to Freedom" at one concert.
My understanding is that DG was interested in getting more esoteric and challenging in the Trio's repertoire and approach and was kinda "my way or the highway" about it. Also my understanding that he later expressed regret for leaving in a Snit ( a small foreign car) when the other two didn't see the point of messing with a winning formula. Easy to empathize with both viewpoints, so sad that their irreplaceable chemistry was curtailed, so grateful it lasted as long as it did. God bless The Kingston Trio.
This is an improvement over the Charlie Poole version, notably due to better acoustics,voices, and the close harmony. Trio's last great album,and I asked Guard later to show me fingering on this piece. Even though he was then with the Whiskey Hill Singers,and ever the gentleman, he was happy to demonstrate. A very great talent!
Dave Guard grew from a strummer to a claw-hammer banjoist, and went on to finger-picking. He grew immeasurably in a short time. Nick told me "Dave was a quick study". I've always wondered where their music might have gone if Dave hadn't placed an ultimatum on the table with his partners.
I was a Trio fan from '58 onward...saddest day when I found out the originals were splitsville! Since wondered, Dave, what on earth were you thinking??? I've heard conflicting reports as to why he left...may never know in this life...but did he realize what he was throwing away? Dave was definitely an Alpha personality, but in this case, I believe it was his undoing.
This song was NOT composed by Charlie Poole. It was composed by the Leighton Bros. and one other, in 1912, some 10 years before Charlie Poole recorded it. It is considered one of the original "blues" tunes. Dave Guard credited himself (along with members of the New Lost City Ramblers, who also did not compose this, just to cop publishing rights and fees. It is not really clear how this version came to vary so greatly from the "Frankie and Johnny" that we are all familiar with. But that happened sometime between the Leighton Bros. and the 1920's, but it is THIS version which most reflects the Leighton Bros. original, the sheet music of which, containing lyrics, is findable on the Internet.
PRR: i agree with all your incisive comments. why did Dave leave? and what was his ultimatum to the other two members of the trio? please advise. thanks. Bob H.
May 11th 1961 -- There was a business meeting to clear the air. Dave demanded Bob and Nick A) learn to read music, B) work on more challenging folks songs that were more authentic, less fraternity-like. Bob and Nick said no. Dave then told them, "then I quit". And he did. It was a stupid move. Even with his partners' resistance to some of his suggestions, Dave was getting more challenging material onto the albums -- "Frankie and Johnny", "Razors In The Air", "Riu Riu Chi", etc. He could have walked away three or four years later when the act's commercial clout wound down, when the Capitol recording contract was finished. They were making HUGE money (millions per year) and he threw all that away ... and reportedly regretted it later. But he was 26-years-old, and when you're that age you're convinced of your own rightness and ability to pick up and repeat the big success somewhere else. Because why not? Only it didn't happen. And Bob and Nick went on with John Stewart and DID make it keep happening. (Their manager Frank Werber said years later that, commercially, 1963 was the Trio's biggest year -- the albums were still selling, and they had a LOT of hit singles that year: "Greenback Dollar," "Reverend Mr. Black", "Desert Pete", and "Ally Ally Oxen Free".) Dave led the Trio for four-plus years, recorded eight Top Ten albums with the group in three years, five that hit #1 and two that attained the second spot. It would have been nice if the original lineup had stayed together, but I'm glad it lasted as long as it did.
@@stevenhulett1192 If the decisive meeting was held in May of '61, how was it that Dave's last appearance was in April of that year? Also, early in '61, time Magazine had a small article telling of the Trio's breakup. Surely that meeting happened in late 1960m or early 1961.
@@jkdm7653 From William J. Bush's in-depth bio of the Trio "Greenback Dollar": "It all came to a head on May 10, 1961, in attorney Sid Rudy's office. Nick, Bob, Frank, and Sid Rudy sat on one side of a conference table while Guard sat on the other. Guard finally broke the silence saying, "Well, what's it going to be boys?" fully expecting his demands [listed above] to be met. "We're not going to do it, Dave." Guard was incredulous -- and angry. "Then, I'm OUT; you'll be hearing from my lawyers." ... "I wasn't surprised by it," said Joan Reynolds, "but I didn't see it coming because they were playing a card game and Dave thought he had the cards and he didn't. Frank called them. Dave lost the card game, Frank trumped him. And Frank didn't try to." ... [Bush; p. 130] If you read contemporary articles and interviews, it's clear that Dave was the acknowledged leader; he formed the group, he was the front man, he did most of the arrangements and brought a lot of the songs in. Reynold's acknowledged that "Dave wanted to take it to another level, have us learn to read music ... but we were working WAY to hard as it was. Bobby and I just wanted to hang out and have a good time." Guard, I think was a bit over-bearing, something that's easy to fall into when you're an overnight star and in your middle twenties. They'd been fighting for a year. Frank Werber said Guard had spent a lot of time "belittling the other two". If Guard had spent some time using diplomacy and some sweet-talk, he might have gotten farther. You listen to various cuts on "Last Month of the Year", "Make Way", and "Going Places", it's reasonably clear he wanted to keep moving. (Reynolds said Guard wanted to use electric guitars.) But it's hard to get acceptance to new ideas when you're ticking people off. As Shane said years later: "... [Dave] very badly wanted us to do his ideas. And if he'd had the savvy for being able to talk to people correctly, he could have gotten us to do that probably. But he alienated himself from us. He just got to believing that he was better than anybody else..." [Bush; p. 130] So Dave left. (Guard's last appearance with the group was in August, '61; he stayed around to fulfill contractual obligations.) Guard realized after the fact it had been a mistake to walk out. (John Stewart said that years later Guard had advised him: "NEVER give up your power base.") But Stewart ended up having some of the same frustrations Guard did, and he too departed.
@@stevenhulett1192 Thanks for your reply. Dave was certainly an "Alpha Dog" personality. As to John, I've read that the trio agreed in 1966 to end it in 1967 after earning as much as possible in one more year, and each went his own seperate way. They appeared together on the Andy Williams show in '67. Nick headed for peace and tranquility in Oregon, John to a solo career(I had 2 of his LPs), but Bob still had the urge to keep singing("Honey", 1968), and then a new trio. I'll check out that bio book if I can find a copy.
This cut was NOT composed by Charlie Poole. It was composed by the Leighton Bros. and one other guy, and came out in 1912. This version and Poole's and others like them are actually closer to the original that the slower alternative version which we all know as "Frankie and Johnny". I think like the rest of you that nobody's version compares to the Trio's, and Guard's banjo is at the virtuoso level here.
Dave's great little high note pops in the chorus elevate this version into a classic. I do so wish Dave hadn't left. John Stewart had such a bizarre voice, and it didn't blend well with Bob's and Nick's voices.
When I was 15 years old all the guys in school wanted to play guitar for the babes. I however wanted to play banjo instead and I got into the Kingston Trio and Johnny Cash. The Trio played at the Plymouth Memorial Hall and I sat front row. After the show they came out to sign records and I had my opportunity! I ran out to the car to grab my banjo and asked them if they would sign it. When I opened the case they all asked, “what is it?” I said, “what do you mean what is it? It’s a five string banjo!” We all laughed and George Grove was kind enough to show me some things and we played a bit. I showed him my style of playing which is a combination of multiple styles. A moment I’ll never forget and such an underrated influencing group.
Dave Guard's banjo is superb, and the catalyst for making this song the best Frankie and Johnie tune ever.
Dave Guard rules!!
I fondly remember Dave showing me this song's fingering.
@@robertbaggs8657 Do you have that tabbed....great song..
Trio was never quite as good with the great Dave Guard.
He was a great banjoist!
This is the best group ever especially if you count the John Stewart years. January 26, 2020 saw the passing of Bob Shane the last of this great group. I'm grateful we can listen to recordings like this until I'm past my time.
I have all the vinyl albums from Capitol and Decca. Still play them on my Hi-Fi. Wonderful!
I saw Bob twice. Great musician!
I think all those things you are saying about Dave Guard are pretty much true. The sad part about him leaving Bob and Nick in 1961 is that they were actually sounding better and playing better than they ever did. That last album that he did with them, "Goin' Places" has some real gems on it and they have stayed classics for years. Songs like this one, "You're gonna miss me", Pastures of Plenty, This Land is your Land, and on and on. Classics. On the other hand, John Stewart gave them some new direction with his style and songwriting. The trio was still able to maintain it's spirit and enthusiasm for the next few years with John with songs such as "Where have all the Flowers Gone", and "Greenback Dollar", and "Reverend Mr. Black" just to name a couple. Thanks for posting this song.
Yes both groups great in their own way. Bob Shane held things together!
Another great song that I believe is overlooked by a lot of Trio fans.
Awesome.It rocks from beginning to end.Every second is rich
This is my favorite by Kingston Trio. Thanks for posting this classic tune!
A great album! I have them all.
Dave’s dry,dry wit was a great part of the original trio. He was one of a kind person who helped shape the way for many groups of musical groups that followed .
And yet John Stewart's humor, as evidenced on College Concert, had its own charm, and musically they kept on going strong, if a different direction.
pThey were very different from one another, but both contributed their own specialty
Biggest mistake of his life was leaving the Trio.
@@scotnick59 Did Dave leave on his own or did the other two kick him out of the group ?
I agree with all you guys that this is the best daggone version of this song ever put out. This one really kicks butt. My friends and I just went to see the great current trio with George Grove, Bill Zorn, and Rick Dougherty and they included this song and "Rider" and "To Morrow." We were flabbergasted because we love these songs and only diehard Trio fans know them. Thankfully they have chosen to include them in their act. They even did "Road to Freedom" at one concert.
I know them all!
My understanding is that DG was interested in getting more esoteric and challenging in the Trio's repertoire and approach and was kinda "my way or the highway" about it. Also my understanding that he later expressed regret for leaving in a Snit ( a small foreign car) when the other two didn't see the point of messing with a winning formula. Easy to empathize with both viewpoints, so sad that their irreplaceable chemistry was curtailed, so grateful it lasted as long as it did. God bless The Kingston Trio.
This is an improvement over the Charlie Poole version, notably due to better acoustics,voices, and the close harmony.
Trio's last great album,and I asked Guard later to show me fingering on this piece. Even though he was then with the Whiskey Hill Singers,and ever the gentleman, he was happy to demonstrate. A very great talent!
Yes they were wonderful!
Thanks for posting this, I got this record form my Gpa, but my brother sold it. Still love this tune.
great music!
There's a fantastic video of this song with Pat Boone on a DVD.
This was the first album I ever heard on "HI-FI" on '62 -LMAO
Dave Guard grew from a strummer to a claw-hammer banjoist, and went on to finger-picking. He grew immeasurably in a short time. Nick told me "Dave was a quick study". I've always wondered where their music might have gone if Dave hadn't placed an ultimatum on the table with his partners.
I was a Trio fan from '58 onward...saddest day when I found out the originals were splitsville! Since wondered, Dave, what on earth were you thinking??? I've heard conflicting reports as to why he left...may never know in this life...but did he realize what he was throwing away? Dave was definitely an Alpha personality, but in this case, I believe it was his undoing.
@@jkdm7653 the Guard years were the best by far.
@@jamesschleich629 I agree. The Stewart albums have their share of good songs but something about the Guard era just can't be replicated.
@@ap5088 - Guard’s voice.
This song was NOT composed by Charlie Poole. It was composed by the Leighton Bros. and one other, in 1912, some 10 years before Charlie Poole recorded it. It is considered one of the original "blues" tunes. Dave Guard credited himself (along with members of the New Lost City Ramblers, who also did not compose this, just to cop publishing rights and fees. It is not really clear how this version came to vary so greatly from the "Frankie and Johnny" that we are all familiar with. But that happened sometime between the Leighton Bros. and the 1920's, but it is THIS version which most reflects the Leighton Bros. original, the sheet music of which, containing lyrics, is findable on the Internet.
PRR:
i agree with all your incisive comments. why did Dave leave? and what was his ultimatum to the other two members of the trio? please advise. thanks.
Bob H.
May 11th 1961 -- There was a business meeting to clear the air. Dave demanded Bob and Nick A) learn to read music, B) work on more challenging folks songs that were more authentic, less fraternity-like. Bob and Nick said no. Dave then told them, "then I quit". And he did.
It was a stupid move. Even with his partners' resistance to some of his suggestions, Dave was getting more challenging material onto the albums -- "Frankie and Johnny", "Razors In The Air", "Riu Riu Chi", etc. He could have walked away three or four years later when the act's commercial clout wound down, when the Capitol recording contract was finished. They were making HUGE money (millions per year) and he threw all that away ... and reportedly regretted it later.
But he was 26-years-old, and when you're that age you're convinced of your own rightness and ability to pick up and repeat the big success somewhere else. Because why not?
Only it didn't happen. And Bob and Nick went on with John Stewart and DID make it keep happening. (Their manager Frank Werber said years later that, commercially, 1963 was the Trio's biggest year -- the albums were still selling, and they had a LOT of hit singles that year: "Greenback Dollar," "Reverend Mr. Black", "Desert Pete", and "Ally Ally Oxen Free".)
Dave led the Trio for four-plus years, recorded eight Top Ten albums with the group in three years, five that hit #1 and two that attained the second spot. It would have been nice if the original lineup had stayed together, but I'm glad it lasted as long as it did.
@@stevenhulett1192 If the decisive meeting was held in May of '61, how was it that Dave's last appearance was in April of that year? Also, early in '61, time Magazine had a small article telling of the Trio's breakup. Surely that meeting happened in late 1960m or early 1961.
@@jkdm7653 From William J. Bush's in-depth bio of the Trio "Greenback Dollar": "It all came to a head on May 10, 1961, in attorney Sid Rudy's office. Nick, Bob, Frank, and Sid Rudy sat on one side of a conference table while Guard sat on the other. Guard finally broke the silence saying, "Well, what's it going to be boys?" fully expecting his demands [listed above] to be met. "We're not going to do it, Dave." Guard was incredulous -- and angry. "Then, I'm OUT; you'll be hearing from my lawyers." ...
"I wasn't surprised by it," said Joan Reynolds, "but I didn't see it coming because they were playing a card game and Dave thought he had the cards and he didn't. Frank called them. Dave lost the card game, Frank trumped him. And Frank didn't try to." ... [Bush; p. 130]
If you read contemporary articles and interviews, it's clear that Dave was the acknowledged leader; he formed the group, he was the front man, he did most of the arrangements and brought a lot of the songs in. Reynold's acknowledged that "Dave wanted to take it to another level, have us learn to read music ... but we were working WAY to hard as it was. Bobby and I just wanted to hang out and have a good time."
Guard, I think was a bit over-bearing, something that's easy to fall into when you're an overnight star and in your middle twenties. They'd been fighting for a year. Frank Werber said Guard had spent a lot of time "belittling the other two". If Guard had spent some time using diplomacy and some sweet-talk, he might have gotten farther. You listen to various cuts on "Last Month of the Year", "Make Way", and "Going Places", it's reasonably clear he wanted to keep moving. (Reynolds said Guard wanted to use electric guitars.)
But it's hard to get acceptance to new ideas when you're ticking people off. As Shane said years later: "... [Dave] very badly wanted us to do his ideas. And if he'd had the savvy for being able to talk to people correctly, he could have gotten us to do that probably. But he alienated himself from us. He just got to believing that he was better than anybody else..." [Bush; p. 130]
So Dave left. (Guard's last appearance with the group was in August, '61; he stayed around to fulfill contractual obligations.) Guard realized after the fact it had been a mistake to walk out. (John Stewart said that years later Guard had advised him: "NEVER give up your power base.") But Stewart ended up having some of the same frustrations Guard did, and he too departed.
@@stevenhulett1192 Thanks for your reply. Dave was certainly an "Alpha Dog" personality. As to John, I've read that the trio agreed in 1966 to end it in 1967 after earning as much as possible in one more year, and each went his own seperate way. They appeared together on the Andy Williams show in '67. Nick headed for peace and tranquility in Oregon, John to a solo career(I had 2 of his LPs), but Bob still had the urge to keep singing("Honey", 1968), and then a new trio. I'll check out that bio book if I can find a copy.
@@jkdm7653 Article in Time Magazine on the Trio (August, 1960 -- Mort Sahl on the cover) describes Dave as "the Big Man on Campus" (i.e. Alpha Dog).
Sorry! It's a video at the end of the CD concert Live at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. Last recorded concert with Dave Guard!.
This cut was NOT composed by Charlie Poole. It was composed by the Leighton Bros. and one other guy, and came out in 1912. This version and Poole's and others like them are actually closer to the original that the slower alternative version which we all know as "Frankie and Johnny". I think like the rest of you that nobody's version compares to the Trio's, and Guard's banjo is at the virtuoso level here.
John Stewart's answer was "Rovin" Gambler."
Dave's great little high note pops in the chorus elevate this version into a classic. I do so wish Dave hadn't left. John Stewart had such a bizarre voice, and it didn't blend well with Bob's and Nick's voices.