Using 50 year old Rodinal
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Ever wondered what it would be like to develop with old Rodinal?
I compare a 50ish year old bottle of unopened Rodinal to a new fresh bottle or Rodinal.
Spoiler, it looks the same.
Plus special appearances from R09 and Ilford Rapid Fixer.
00:00 why I like Rodinal
00:51 old bottle of Rodinal
02:02 old Rodinal examples
02:27 old Rodinal vs new Rodinal
04:33 r09
05:09 old fixer
05:26 old fixer examples
06:35 end
equipment:
Hasselblad 500C/M
Carl Zeiss 80mm f2.8 C* Planar
Ilford HP5
Agfa Rodinal
Adox Rodinal
Rollei Compard R09
Ilford Rapid Fixer 1:4
Noritsu S-1800
website - atticdarkroom.com
instagram - / atticdarkroom
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Wel..
Well two things.
When is then follow up .
I am fucdking hammered
I don’t even remember writing this, but comment still stands.
average attic darkroom enjoyer
legend
But does 50 year old Rodinal still taste the same as new one?
About the same, just a bit chunkier.
With and without pulp
@@paulobuencamino4859 Don't forget the limited edition, Extra Pulp version.
@@paulobuencamino4859Chunky 4-aminophenol
I actually tasted some used 1/25 rodinal the other day, I don't know how to describe it, it's just kind of bad chemical-y and has a soapy texture.
So what happened was I had some used photochemistry in bottles in my room and a friend says, "I see you have a half finished coke too." (2 liter coca cola bottle). So I said something like, "no I'm pretty sure that's just used photochemistry that my label has fallen off.) So I took the bottle out and held it up to the light, hmmm, dark brown with a reddish hue, it really does look like cola. So I took the cap off and smelt it, it smelled like cola too (presumably from residue left in the bottom before I started using it for chemical storage.)
So I told him, "ok, I'm like 95% sure this actually is cola", and I took a small little sampling swig. My conclusion, it was not in fact cola.
There are only three constants in life: death, taxes and working rodinal.
A classic again!!! You are so freaking good! I get excited with every video, they’re so concise, so well structured, they’re fantastic!
Thanks!
Every new video your trichrome technique gets better and better. The colors in that frame with board games looked spot on.
I have a bottle of Rodinal (actually Adox "Adonal") I've been working through very slowly since about 2010. Has chunks of who knows what in it, and it's far darker brown than even your old glass bottle. Still works the same as when it was brand new.
Thanks. I've been shooting way more trichrome since I started this channel.
I also have anothet older bottle of Adox Rodinal. About 6 years old. Its turned dark red and has floating crystal chunks. Still works perfectly fine.
@@atticdarkroom have you considered or done any large format trichromes?
Ive been meaning to for a while. I have a 4x5 camera, but haven't shot anything yet. I want to develop my film and haven't gotten around to buying 4x5 reels.
@@atticdarkroom If you find STLs I'm happy to print them for you and send them your way.
If I find something that works I'll definitely hit you up. Thanks for the offer.
And when the world needed him most, attic boi returned!
I found an unopened bottle of Orwo R09 from the late 80s (the East German equivalent of Rodinal, supposedly using an older formula) in the attic last year. It's been sitting there for over 30 years, going through big temperature changes in all this time and... it's fine. Somehow doesn't even have any solids on the bottom of the bottle as far as I can tell. The concentrate is pretty much black but seemed to work perfectly well on the short test I've done, I really should do more with it.
I use expired soviet developers and fixers (sometimes). they're about 40-50 years old but still ok (sometimes)
As an undergrad photo major at Utah State University back around 1970, I used Agfa Rodinal in the classic brown bottle with the rubber stopper. I was told that the floculation at the bottom of the bottle wouldn't affect the outcome--it didn't. A little Rodinal went a long way--it was economical and it worked. Love the label. I'd be tempted to but a bottle just to place on the bookshelf for its high aesthetic factor. Or to pour over my inkjet printer when another print comes out less than desirable.
Oh we love a cliffhanger
Fantastic video as always and I'm happy to see many people agreeing with me. If I don't watch all your videos at least once a month I feel that something is missing in my life
My Rodinal bottle which is like 2 years old and it's quite a dark red/brown and has a lot of chunks. It works exactly the same as the day I opened the bottle.
i love this channel exists. i love you go to such lengths over questions no one asked, thatd othereise just be some dusty old forum discussions and try it out
Can’t wait to see old Powder chemistry
Me too. I have no idea what to expect.
I can tell you from experience, I left a half used bag of d76 in my drawer and after 6 months it turned from a white fine powder to some sand looking brown stuff. When I mixed it, it smelled completely different from the normal thing and instead of being transparent it was kind of a reddish brown so I dumped it straight as I was too afraid of ruining any important pictures with it.
That's good to know. But the big difference is I don't take important pictures, so that's a bullet I'll gladly take.
I’m loving the videos, you seriously should be gaining so many more subscribers. Keep doing what your doing and trichrome forever.
Sad truth is that majority of people in the film community don’t care about development processes
Big AGFA!!
I knew it, it goes all the way to the top.
Good stuff, love every video you make
I've been using powdered 1980-1990 Ilford Microphen (I have over 30L of working solution) for almost two years now and it's always been great. Mainly because it's only active when the "A & B" parts are mixed together.
Also I'm super cheap and mixed together two 2.5L of Microphen and reused it for a year and a half and dev probably over 40 rolls of b&w with consistent result.
You can also make your own Rodinal from paracetamol by oxidation. P-aminophenol, the active compound of Rodinal, can be derived from paracetamol by reversing the process. IDK the exact equation though, but paracetamol is derived usually by adding p-aminophenol with acetic anhyride. This is used by Prof. Jay Javier's Fotofabrik to create 125mL bottles of their own-made Parodinal, which sells for cheap in the Philippines.
The reason for Rodinal's longevity is the presence of sodium sulfite in the solution. It is a preservative (stops oxidation) and in the standard formula, there is 40 more times of it compared to the active ingredient 4-aminophenol (or p-aminophenol or para-aminophenol) and potassium hydroxide (or sodium hydroxide). As such 4-aminophenol does not get bad that easily, though when oxidized it turns into the dark brown color liquid that we are all familiar with (unoxidized Rodinal is clear though).
I love the cliffhanger at the end
Well that solves my hesitance at using the old bottle of rodinol I found the other day.
I'm sure I've got an open bottle of Rodinal packed away in a box in the cellar of the old family home...at least 35 years old. Will develop a roll with it next time I visit.
Epic video as always! Love the experimentation! I've tried Rodinal (called Blazinal here in Canada) for the first time on my past couple of rolls. Awesome to know my bottle will never go bad lol
why is it called blazinal here? i saw some at a local shop and was confused about that.
@@munroco8146 probably trademark reasons. Someone prolly registered rodinal here
Damn leaving us on a cliffhanger :p Looking forward to the sequel :)
man i luv your vids!
Hubl Paste (glycin, sod. sulfite and potassium carbonate) is an almost immortal developer. I mixed a fresh batch last week. It is a gooey sludge suspension that requires a lot of shaking before drawing out a bit for use. Photographer's Formulary mixes their own glycin every so often. I used this extensively in the 1990's for Ortho Litho film. You get into physical development territory at 1:70 for about four minutes with a pre-wash. 1:35 is about right for modern films. Kind of like Rodinal, kind of different. Expect to lose a stop, but if you use this in stand development and rate 120 and sheet film at half box speed, you'll get some mind blowing shadow and highlights.
I never heard of that stuff. But it sounds like fun and I'll definitely look into it.
love the videos
I was worried my unopened 3 year old bottle may be no good. The content of this video bodes well.
Speaking of powder chemistry, last year I got some D76 and put it in storage, when I got it back to use it had turned dark brown, it was from the "bad batch" that Kodak reported, I said "fuck it" and used it anyway, the mixture looked like coke or red wine, but worked flawlessly, using standard times and dilutions, contrast and density were as they should, it has been used with expired Acros, Foma, T-Max
I've been using since last year fixer that I mixed back in 2010, I filtered the floating bits (sulfur compounds or something like that) and tested it, negatives fixed last year are still in perfect condition, we'll see in a few years but I doubt anything will change
Similar experience here. I did not exhaust the fixer, but it did get old with some precipitation in it. Still clears a strip of unexposed film in one minute.
ohh, good choice of board games.
I don't play mine nearly enough
1968 there was a law in germany that would've required them to put warning labels on the bottle for transport... so sometime between 1964 and 1968... also the brown color comes from oxidation might be that the bottle wasn't all too well sealed or that it was opened before crazy that it still works though
Oh boy, I'm using right now unknown age Orwo A03(similar to microphen?) and A300 (slow AF fixer), and somehow still work on both orwo films and Ilford new stock !
I think fixer is almost immortal. Unlike developers, it is inorganic stuff.
Have you seen Kodak Aerocolor? It doesn’t have a orange backing, might be an interesting cross process. I would love to see your madness with that stock.
No, but I'll definitely have to look into it. Thanks!
I bought glass bottles with rubber stopper from Altman Camera Chicago in1966 to 69. You did need to source a hypo with needle to make it work. Doctor in family solved that.
Plus X pan + Rodinal was my favorite. Still miss it, nothing better.
Old Rodinal bottle said 'Made in Germany.' This was a change after unification 1990. Before unification if made in West Germany it would usually read 'Made in West Germany' or if in the east 'made in DDR.'
They changed the dilutions on me. It used to be 1to50 now it's 1to49
Now I want to see the same with C41 chemistry!
I would love to try this with old C41 chemistry. I can't imagine it even remotely working. But it would be fun to try regardless.
@@atticdarkroom Given that c41 has shorter shelf life it maybe also interesting to see how it degrade overtime. Let's say after 1, 3, 6, 12 month.
That is actually a really good idea. I think I might have to try that.
I used too buy the glass bottles with rubber stopper. Lucky I had a doctor in family and could get needles. Supplier was Altman camera in Chicago,late 60`s.
I experimented in late 90`s with a 4 oz well sealing bottle from Agfa toner. I decanted from a fresh plastic bottle and used only that for ten years. Same rolls of film which were frozen. I started doing some film at 3 month intervals, then 6, then 12. Target was my indoor illuminated grey scale and grey board and a doll with pleated black skirt and white blouse. I could recreate this any time in any weather because of studio electronic flash.
Are you waiting? no change for ten years. It got brown towards end and I quit because 10 years was long enough for me.
As a user of self-made Parodinal, it looks like old dirty water. Mine separates too but if you shake it a little it comeback to its normal state.
I’m in a similar situation with a 60 year old package of powdered Kodak D-76. Wondering if I should bother mixing it/trying it out or just keep it as a cool relic.
Overfixing is actually a thing. What it does is bleach out a bit the negative. That's why I always fix for double the clearing time.
Also, HC-110 fits in that almost good forever category. I'm currently using a bottle that expired in 2012 without any issue.
I never thought about messing around with overfixing. Hmmm.
Also I wonder how the longevity of the newer HC-110 compares to the older formulation.
@@atticdarkroom I really don't know. But considering how long the original lasted, I would think that Kodak would have wanted to put an end to that.
The original used Propylene Glycol as a solution, that's why it was so thick. But the new one being as liquid as can be, I suspect that they replaced it with just water (which would affect the longevity by bringing some oxygen into the equation).
Oh and I was worried that a 15 year old bottle of rodinal, that I've got as a part of a bulk deal for expired film, wouldn't work.
"Please don't use it"
"So I used it"
this one got me well hahaha
Meh. Fixing is fixing - the idea is to dissolve the undeveloped exposed silver halide crystals and flush them out. If your sad old fixer isn't clearing the unexposed parts of your negatives properly, give it more time - like two or four times as long. Then give the film a nice long wash, followed by a soak in water with a little wetting agent, then hang it up to dry the usual way. It's photographic processing, not voodoo.
Let's get some Christmas chemistry
Lets set up the Chemistree
I dunno if you've done it before but have you tried xp2 but developed as if it was normal b&w Instead of c41
Not yet, but I have wanted to try it for a while.
My profile picture is actually that with a little touching in post.
There is one thing I didn't get. How would old fixer cause lower density? I mean, fixer removes undeveloped silver halides. If the fixer is weak, it won't remove all of them and with time (and light) they would reduce to metallic silver by themselves (just like undeveloped/unfixed photographic paper turns darker). Film left in fixer for too short (i.e. underfixed) has this sort of milky look. So, intuitively, old fixer should the exact opposite effect to what you have observed. Am I missing something?
That's a great question and what you're saying makes perfect sense. To be honest I'm not entirely too sure on what's going on here. When I follow up on this with the powder chemistry I'll definitely do some further research on it.
Espero poder ayudarle en con la botella de Rodinal. Comencé muy joven como fotógrafo profesional, fue en el año 1979. Ya entonces, las botellas de Rodinal eran cuadradas. No me atrevería a decir en qué año comenzaron a comercializar Rodinal en botella cuadrada, pero si le diré que nunca vi ninguna de forma cilíndrica o redonda como la que usted muestra.
Saludos desde España.
I mean I'm sure this is true but it's also not immortal, especially if it's the last bit in an open bottle. Source, me, who has ruined several rolls trying to push it too far.
I choose to believe that long after the heat death of the universe we will only be left with bottles of still working Rodinal.
@@atticdarkroom I applaud your optimism sir, though I will be sad that there will be no star light to ever expose film to be developed by it then.
Have you tried new V. Old HC110? Try that and of course tricolor it. Best regards.
That bottle is about the age of the Bessamatic I just got working
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late response
very late reply
Hey, I wanted to ask you a question seeing that you're the most knowledgeable person about film developing I know. I shot HP5 at 1600 ISO and want to use Rodinal, but don't know if it'll be too grainy. What's your opinion? Which ratio would you use? Thanks, and keep up the good work
HP5 at 1600 will be grainy. And Rodinal is an acutance enhancing developer, meaning you'll get sharper results but with more aggressive and defined grain.
If minimizing grain is your top priority, I would go with a low acutance or fine grain developer.
Also should mention, it depends on what format you're shooting. 35 will most likely be grainy, while 120 and bigger would be more tolerable.
Also I try not to push with Rodinal. I usually use DD-X for pushing, I find it keeps a good amount of sharpness while having less aggressive grain.
@@atticdarkroom Thanks, that was a perfect explanation!
I can confirm that the new formula, R09,doesn't have the life span of rodinal, I have an 18 month old r09 thats dead.
Got some 3 to 5 year old R09 one shot in a half used bottle, but it still works completely fine.
Lmao I laugh way too hard at these puns
Chad 50yo Rodinal vs. Virgin 6yo Ilford Fixer
Same could be said for hc110.
Had some go bad in the original plastic bottle after 2-3 years (very thin, unusable negatives).
The one I filled into brown, sealed glass bottles directly after getting is still like new, though.
For what it's worth when I started out, I used powder MQ dev from the 60s I got off eBay really cheap, not really paying mind to the fact that it's old as shit. Still worked just fine. Powder lasts forever
Dear Ethic Darkroom,
Maybe try developing Black and White film in a reversal way
I'm throwing random ideas occasionally incase you have ran out of them.
Sincerely Louis C.K.
Thanks. I'm always looking for new ideas.
B&W reversal is high on my list, and hopefully something I'll tackle soon.
Thanks!
i got a box of 20yo ilford chemicals, should i use them?
Depends on what it is exactly. Fix? sure. Stop? Sure. Paper dev? Worth a try, at worst you waste a sheet of paper. Film dev? Wouldn't do it, you don't want to fuck up your pictures and a whole roll of film.
Breaking Bad: Rodinol edition
ah yes a cliffhanger hehe
bro who's your main in gloomhaven
I've been wanting to learn how to play for a while, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I figured if I bought the physical game it would motivate me to learn, but I've been too busy.