Pastor Joel, this was so good it brought me tears a bit, in that it makes it so clear what a divine and glorious honor we have in raising our kids, too many Christian parents don’t seem to bear that weight. This was the best and most consistent teaching on the subject. We as ministers should love our children more than ministry full stop. Also the teaching of “professing” children is so good, why? Not only so we teach them right shame, we teach them they are under authority. So as a professing believer that makes them subject to church authority. They may not be under our personal roof but we make sure they continue under authority because we always will be under Gods authority and as our kids walk in that, we remain above reproach, that Christ’s name is not maligned. Thank you for this exegesis. (My 2 teens are professing and baptized, and my dear and mute special needs daughter, well I entrust her to God!)
Excellent sermon, Pastor Joel. It is refreshing to listen and learn from you. If I was living in Texas I’d gladly attend your church. God bless you Pastor Joel.
Listen to his last few seconds Pastor = Job to him. The veil was torn to make each believer responsible, and Pastors just exist to equip and encourage you on the way. Nothing more nothing less.. Pastors love to make it more than it is. Serve well everyone.
I sort of agree, on the basis of Ephesians 4:12 which says all are to be equipped for ministry, and the pastors do that equipping. But would you say that in Old Testament times that each believer was not responsible?
Vs 4 hypotagē “ obedient “…Vs 5 proistēmi “ maintain “ generally translates Rule!… nowhere is it required or placated on your children being born again!
Did you watch the video? Also, I would take a gander and say you don’t actually know Greek. Can you translate this for me? “τέκνα ἔχων πιστά “ If you can’t, I will translate it for you.
While about 37 of the different translations begin 1 Timothy 3:1 with something like: "If anyone/someone/you ... aspire/desire", there are also about 21 major translations that, instead, have something like "If a man aspires/desires" ... so that the actual FIRST qualification would be that the candidate ... be ... a ... man ...
Don't know where you're getting all those numbers from, there's just the kjv, nkjv, nasb77, esv, (asv/rsv are the turn of the century versions of these two), Lsb, and all others are redundant or compromised.
Translation should be based on original languages, and the original clearly says "man". Gendered words are the biggest litmus test of a good translator these days.
@@cosmictreason2242 Bible Gateway { 1 Timothy 3:1 in all English translations } is where those numbers come from ... I also prefer those translations you've listed, even though ESV uses "anyone" instead of "man" ... finally, just today, Joel & friends, specifically addressed that only MEN can/should hold the pastor/shepherd/elder positions in a Biblical/Christian church { see the SBC Votes For Women Pastors!? podcast } which confirms that being a MAN is the ACTUAL first qualification ...
Overseers must have children over 18. Primary focus should be his children. It’s injustice to have a overseer prioritize the congregation over his kids
Aren't apostles, teachers, evangelists, pastors, prophets gifts and not appointed in the case of elders? When Paul told Timothy to appoint elders in the every church, the criteria was that they could teach and correct where necessary. In the modern church there doesn't seem to be any room for the body ministry that Paul set out as correct of confucting church gatherings.
If anybody heard the sermon. Can someone clarify if I understood correct. If the child of a pastor at an adult age makes a public profession that he's not a believer yet respects and honors and does not put his father to shame is the pastor/elder is still not disqualified?
One thing I disagree with is that some elders don’t need to be able to teach. I just don’t see how you can come to that conclusion in light of verse 2.
It is required that a pastor’s or elder’s children be under submission, not out of control, and manageable (Titus 1:6, 1 Timothy 3:4-5). Meaning that if a man desiring to be a pastor or elder has a rebellious son or daughter, have significant behavioral issues, and IS UNDER THEIR ROOF, still ie under the authority of their father, then no, that man should not be allowed to be a pastor or elder. The belief that each and every child of said man must be saved is foreign to scripture. John Piper is an imperfect man who I do not agree with on everything, but to say that he is unqualified to be a pastor because of his wicked, sin embracing, God hating son who is an adult man and out of the house is incorrect. A man who preaches the doctrines of grace, is a faithful teacher of God’s Word, but has a two year old, is not unqualified to be a pastor or elder, and no two year old is saved. They do not have a concept of their sinful nature and need for a savior.
@@cosmictreason2242 Sir, I did not ignore, intentionally or otherwise, any passage. Can you please, using proper exegesis and context, share the verse of which you speak? Because I can certainly provide you with scripture that declares man is not responsible for his offspring’s sin, and vice versa (Ezekiel 18:19-23, Deuteronomy 24:16).
6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination, nkjv and nasb if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination., ESV Titus 1:6.
@@patrickc3419 Have you seen the video of the conference of therapists laughing at Piper? I think that's the problem. He's been living false Western authenticity for so long, he doesn't know what's real. And his son sees it.
Which of these requirements are not also expected of the Saints? Saints are called to raise their kids well in the ways of Christ, want Gods will for their life, obedient to God and be morally Christ followers by word and deed. Pastors just have to be living up to the standards of all believers, otherwise they are a hypocrite (Tim and Titus in a nutshell). You are creating a position of Pastor that doesn’t exist and causes Saints to think - “thats for the Pastor to do” Pastors have to be good teachers? Teach the people that they can learn something from everyone, but they need to think for themselves.
It is with heaviness I feel I must ask you to consider your positions. I have followed you for a while, and am noticing a drift into what concerns me as possibly another gospel. You started out reformed but you are drifting into what Christ criticized the Pharisees for in Matthew 23. You are starting to place burdens on people that the Bible does not support. Christs yoke is easy, but you are adding weights. You seem to say that God can not work in society without us. We must elect Christian politicians so we can usher in Christs Kingdom, which is also taught by teachers not following the Bible. Christ will rule, with or without our cooperation or who we vote for. Please do not just write off my criticism. As an elder/brother, I am concerned for your ministry.
You are quick to levy an accusation against an elder without witnesses. There is no other Gospel here. Did Joel say piper can't be saved because of his son? Do you understand the difference between law and legalism? If it's not requiring x for salvation or communion, then x is not a legalistic requirement
Bro this is about requirements for pastors, not entry into the kingdom. If you think that being a pastor isn't itself carrying a burden, don't even consider being a pastor.
The next step I've seen is legalism. You are not a good Christian because you do not have the sane perfect family as me. Your wife's skirt is 3" off the floor and mine is 1".
Will Joel resign if one of his children has a crisis of faith and begins to wander? He is basically teaching that is an unfit elder. Like I said, I have been open to his teaching but am concerned he has pushed this interpretation a little far.
Wow - not great use of time bro! Walk humbly. Pastor as you are defining it is not the JOB type position you speak of. “You have to want it” sorry that’s not it. You have to want Gods plan for your life, not 2024s definition of Pastor… that’s why there are so many ego pastors.
No one can make anyone believe anything. An authoritarian imposition of religious belief is not faith but you’ve said elsewhere you’d be fine with a theocratic america where religious observance is mandatory (like in Saudi Arabia and Iran) but belief itself doesn’t matter. You showed your true colors as a hypocrite with no heart for Christ and the humanity He died for. You are the kind He decried, who travels the world to make one proselyte then makes him twice the sone of perfection he is already.
Right on till you start talking about the civil government. To think that in any format the rules of gods people are now to be instituted by government is an incorrect assumption no where supported by gods word.
@@loganross1861 yep i tried to give the relevant excerpt for convenience but you need to lk it up yself bc yt seems to have a way to know if you're pasting from an external site and in my case removes my comments
Pastor Joel, this was so good it brought me tears a bit, in that it makes it so clear what a divine and glorious honor we have in raising our kids, too many Christian parents don’t seem to bear that weight.
This was the best and most consistent teaching on the subject. We as ministers should love our children more than ministry full stop.
Also the teaching of “professing” children is so good, why? Not only so we teach them right shame, we teach them they are under authority. So as a professing believer that makes them subject to church authority. They may not be under our personal roof but we make sure they continue under authority because we always will be under Gods authority and as our kids walk in that, we remain above reproach, that Christ’s name is not maligned.
Thank you for this exegesis.
(My 2 teens are professing and baptized, and my dear and mute special needs daughter, well I entrust her to God!)
Excellent sermon, Pastor Joel. It is refreshing to listen and learn from you. If I was living in Texas I’d gladly attend your church. God bless you Pastor Joel.
Very kind. Thank you brother.
Wow. Resubscribed. This was the best teaching on this subject.
“The closet OR The Cross!” Amen Bro!!
Very good sermon! If I ever visit Texas I would love to attend a church service.
God bless!
That was some preaching man. I feel nervous after listening and that is the effect of good preaching
Listen to his last few seconds Pastor = Job to him.
The veil was torn to make each believer responsible, and Pastors just exist to equip and encourage you on the way. Nothing more nothing less.. Pastors love to make it more than it is. Serve well everyone.
I sort of agree, on the basis of Ephesians 4:12 which says all are to be equipped for ministry, and the pastors do that equipping.
But would you say that in Old Testament times that each believer was not responsible?
Are you saying pastors should not take money from the church and should support themselves with a real job?
Vs 4 hypotagē “ obedient “…Vs 5 proistēmi “ maintain “ generally translates Rule!… nowhere is it required or placated on your children being born again!
Did you watch the video? Also, I would take a gander and say you don’t actually know Greek. Can you translate this for me?
“τέκνα ἔχων πιστά “
If you can’t, I will translate it for you.
Have you ruled well if your children don’t believe?
While about 37 of the different translations begin 1 Timothy 3:1 with something like: "If anyone/someone/you ... aspire/desire", there are also about 21 major translations that, instead, have something like "If a man aspires/desires" ... so that the actual FIRST qualification would be that the candidate ... be ... a ... man ...
Don't know where you're getting all those numbers from, there's just the kjv, nkjv, nasb77, esv, (asv/rsv are the turn of the century versions of these two), Lsb, and all others are redundant or compromised.
Translation should be based on original languages, and the original clearly says "man". Gendered words are the biggest litmus test of a good translator these days.
@@cosmictreason2242 Bible Gateway { 1 Timothy 3:1 in all English translations } is where those numbers come from ... I also prefer those translations you've listed, even though ESV uses "anyone" instead of "man" ... finally, just today, Joel & friends, specifically addressed that only MEN can/should hold the pastor/shepherd/elder positions in a Biblical/Christian church { see the SBC Votes For Women Pastors!? podcast } which confirms that being a MAN is the ACTUAL first qualification ...
The Santa joke made my day 🤣
Overseers must have children over 18. Primary focus should be his children. It’s injustice to have a overseer prioritize the congregation over his kids
20:00 woke people are best defined as the ones who start throwing the ship's cargo into the sea on a calm and sunny day.
Aren't apostles, teachers, evangelists, pastors, prophets gifts and not appointed in the case of elders? When Paul told Timothy to appoint elders in the every church, the criteria was that they could teach and correct where necessary. In the modern church there doesn't seem to be any room for the body ministry that Paul set out as correct of confucting church gatherings.
Being an overseer should be the goal of Christian education.
Ephesians 4:11 disagrees. They are sent by Christ not made in a school. This isn't Bethel school of super natural ministry
@@lewislibre according to your interpretation.
@@lewislibre also, overseers is not mentioned in Eph 4:11
If anybody heard the sermon. Can someone clarify if I understood correct. If the child of a pastor at an adult age makes a public profession that he's not a believer yet respects and honors and does not put his father to shame is the pastor/elder is still not disqualified?
It’s impossible to deny Christ and not put your earthly Father to shame. Especially when your earthly Father is a pastor.
One thing I disagree with is that some elders don’t need to be able to teach. I just don’t see how you can come to that conclusion in light of verse 2.
>Man with a TikTok account… already disqualified.
>Trump has entered the chat.
heh
Hey he just got Tik tok recently! I’ll give him a pass because he needs to tell the truth to all the liberal ponies on Tik tok 😂
It is required that a pastor’s or elder’s children be under submission, not out of control, and manageable (Titus 1:6, 1 Timothy 3:4-5). Meaning that if a man desiring to be a pastor or elder has a rebellious son or daughter, have significant behavioral issues, and IS UNDER THEIR ROOF, still ie under the authority of their father, then no, that man should not be allowed to be a pastor or elder.
The belief that each and every child of said man must be saved is foreign to scripture. John Piper is an imperfect man who I do not agree with on everything, but to say that he is unqualified to be a pastor because of his wicked, sin embracing, God hating son who is an adult man and out of the house is incorrect.
A man who preaches the doctrines of grace, is a faithful teacher of God’s Word, but has a two year old, is not unqualified to be a pastor or elder, and no two year old is saved. They do not have a concept of their sinful nature and need for a savior.
You quoted the passage talking about young children and ignored the one talking about grown children with the word debauchery
@@cosmictreason2242
Sir, I did not ignore, intentionally or otherwise, any passage. Can you please, using proper exegesis and context, share the verse of which you speak?
Because I can certainly provide you with scripture that declares man is not responsible for his offspring’s sin, and vice versa (Ezekiel 18:19-23, Deuteronomy 24:16).
6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination, nkjv and nasb
if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination., ESV
Titus 1:6.
@@patrickc3419 Have you seen the video of the conference of therapists laughing at Piper? I think that's the problem. He's been living false Western authenticity for so long, he doesn't know what's real. And his son sees it.
@@cosmictreason2242
I simply want to just clarify one aspect; So, biblically speaking, can a man who has an infant son or daughter be a pastor/elder?
Santa’s not even real! But Bigfoot, mermaids, and faeries are, right Pastor Joel? 😂 jk jk I couldn’t help myself brother!
Which of these requirements are not also expected of the Saints? Saints are called to raise their kids well in the ways of Christ, want Gods will for their life, obedient to God and be morally Christ followers by word and deed. Pastors just have to be living up to the standards of all believers, otherwise they are a hypocrite (Tim and Titus in a nutshell). You are creating a position of Pastor that doesn’t exist and causes Saints to think - “thats for the Pastor to do” Pastors have to be good teachers? Teach the people that they can learn something from everyone, but they need to think for themselves.
It is with heaviness I feel I must ask you to consider your positions. I have followed you for a while, and am noticing a drift into what concerns me as possibly another gospel. You started out reformed but you are drifting into what Christ criticized the Pharisees for in Matthew 23. You are starting to place burdens on people that the Bible does not support. Christs yoke is easy, but you are adding weights. You seem to say that God can not work in society without us. We must elect Christian politicians so we can usher in Christs Kingdom, which is also taught by teachers not following the Bible. Christ will rule, with or without our cooperation or who we vote for. Please do not just write off my criticism. As an elder/brother, I am concerned for your ministry.
You are quick to levy an accusation against an elder without witnesses. There is no other Gospel here. Did Joel say piper can't be saved because of his son? Do you understand the difference between law and legalism? If it's not requiring x for salvation or communion, then x is not a legalistic requirement
Bro this is about requirements for pastors, not entry into the kingdom. If you think that being a pastor isn't itself carrying a burden, don't even consider being a pastor.
No. I am not accusing. I'm cautioning. They are heading into a region where I've seen other reformed go.
The next step I've seen is legalism. You are not a good Christian because you do not have the sane perfect family as me. Your wife's skirt is 3" off the floor and mine is 1".
Will Joel resign if one of his children has a crisis of faith and begins to wander? He is basically teaching that is an unfit elder. Like I said, I have been open to his teaching but am concerned he has pushed this interpretation a little far.
Wow - not great use of time bro! Walk humbly. Pastor as you are defining it is not the JOB type position you speak of. “You have to want it” sorry that’s not it. You have to want Gods plan for your life, not 2024s definition of Pastor… that’s why there are so many ego pastors.
No one can make anyone believe anything. An authoritarian imposition of religious belief is not faith but you’ve said elsewhere you’d be fine with a theocratic america where religious observance is mandatory (like in Saudi Arabia and Iran) but belief itself doesn’t matter. You showed your true colors as a hypocrite with no heart for Christ and the humanity He died for. You are the kind He decried, who travels the world to make one proselyte then makes him twice the sone of perfection he is already.
Right on till you start talking about the civil government. To think that in any format the rules of gods people are now to be instituted by government is an incorrect assumption no where supported by gods word.
Leviticus 18 says he's right. Canaan was held accountable for violating the law of Moses
Yt does not want me to correct you
The passage itself was banned from pasting
@@cosmictreason2242
For real?
@@loganross1861 yep i tried to give the relevant excerpt for convenience but you need to lk it up yself bc yt seems to have a way to know if you're pasting from an external site and in my case removes my comments