Thank you so much for this episode. One of my earliest memories is flipping through a book of images from Ralph Bakshi's trippy animated version of LOTR. My artist mother loved Tolkien and introduced me to Middle Earth before I could even read. Later in high school, I learned about Jung for the first time when we took the MBTI, an experience which helped me better integrate my introversion and see it as a strength instead of something to overcome. Bringing these two revolutionary creators together in the same discussion - brilliant! I learned so much from this conversation about both of them and their inner journeys into the imaginal realm. I credit both these men with having a huge impact on my own creative life - I write fantasy novels which I call my archetypal memoirs. It's so refreshing to hear more scholars taking Tolkien's work seriously. Literary fiction has been stuck on realism far too long - in many of the writers' groups I have participated in over the years, most assumed I was writing for children because of the fantastical elements in my stories. My university professors liked my poetry but really didn't understand why I wrote fantasy fiction. In desperation at one point, I started talking about my fantasy characters in a dream group - they felt like dreams to me. I truly believe that dreams and certain stories come from the same place. Creating feels like dreaming to me, except I'm awake. We have such a disconnect in our culture between the waking, "rational" world and the dream-scape. Thank you for helping people bridge this gap - it's a great way for people to unlock their creative, psychological, and spiritual potential.
I looove this episode. Thank you! The concept that inventions or ideas may come through into different people & places at the same time from the imaginal to the manifest world makes me wonder: who began thinking the thoughts first (or opening to them being thought through them) and did the 1st occurrence pave the way for the 2nd? Does one opening to a thought-form make it more easily accessed by others? In practical application, I try to remind myself that by doing my inner work, conquering my fears, and confronting my blind spots, I am participating in the construction of a new (or strengthening of an existing) "neural network" within the Collective Unconscious that gives others a greater capacity to walk that same road that I've found so difficult. Each of us with our existential "cross to bear". ✨️🕯🦋
Both Carl Jung's The Red Book and J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) are monumental works that explore the depths of the human psyche and myth. Here's a breakdown of their connections: Thematic Parallels 1 Myth and Archetypes: • Jung: In The Red Book, Jung delves into mythic themes and universal archetypes like the Hero, the Wise Old Man, and the Shadow. These symbols are foundational to Jungian psychology. • Tolkien: LOTR is rooted in myth and explores archetypal characters like Frodo (Hero), Gandalf (Wise Old Man), and Sauron (Shadow). The journey motif and transformation of characters embody archetypal storytelling. 2 Inner Journey and Individuation: • Jung: Jung's exploration of the unconscious in The Red Book depicts his personal journey toward individuation, a process of integrating different aspects of the self. • Tolkien: Frodo's journey to Mount Doom mirrors a psychological quest, where characters confront their inner darkness. The transformation of Aragorn into King Elessar can also be seen as an individuation journey. 3 Duality and Shadow: • Jung: Jung emphasized integrating the Shadow as part of individuation. In The Red Book, he meets and integrates his Shadow aspects through characters like Philemon and the Red One. • Tolkien: LOTR explores duality through characters like Gollum (a split personality) and the One Ring itself (symbolizing corruption and power). The struggle between good and evil is central. 4 Mythopoeia and the Subconscious: • Jung: The Red Book is considered a mythopoeic work as Jung channels mythic imagery directly from his subconscious through active imagination. • Tolkien: LOTR is a prime example of mythopoeia, drawing upon Tolkien's profound knowledge of language and folklore to create a rich mythos. Symbolic Similarities 1 Symbols of Evil: • Jung: The Red One (Satan), represents the destructive and chaotic force that Jung seeks to integrate. • Tolkien: The One Ring is a powerful symbol of corruption and the Shadow. 2 Guides and Mentors: • Jung: Philemon acts as Jung's guide in The Red Book, akin to a shamanic figure. • Tolkien: Gandalf is a Wise Old Man guiding the Fellowship, much like Philemon. Cultural and Biographical Influences 1 World War I and II: • Jung: The horrors of WWI heavily influenced The Red Book. Jung saw the war as a manifestation of the collective unconscious. • Tolkien: LOTR was influenced by both world wars, particularly WWII. The destructive nature of industrialization and totalitarianism permeate the narrative. 2 Language and the Unconscious: • Jung: Jung explored the power of language through the dialogues in The Red Book. • Tolkien: As a philologist, Tolkien created entire languages for Middle-earth, reflecting a deep connection between language and myth. Integration of Masculine and Feminine 1 Jung's Anima/Animus: • Jung: In The Red Book, Jung interacts with feminine aspects of his psyche, integrating them through the figures of Salome and the Anima. • Tolkien's Female Characters: • Galadriel represents wisdom and an archetypal feminine force. • Éowyn embodies courage and the breaking of traditional roles. Conclusion The Red Book and The Lord of the Rings both serve as profound explorations of the unconscious through myth, symbol, and archetype. Jung and Tolkien each tapped into universal themes that resonate deeply with the human experience, offering insights into the inner journey of transformation and the struggle between light and dark forces within and around us.
Absolutely love this discussion. The Tolkien/Jung imaginal connections, the psychology of Myer Briggs archetypal character development, and how astrology feeds into all of it. Fantastic. Very grateful to be introduced into Becca Tarnas who I will be exploring in depth. Thank you very much.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you! Lucid dreamers sometimes experiment with telling the people in their dreams, “You’re not real, you’re in my dream,” and the dream figures genuinely become defensive of their reality.
Great show and really appreciate the level of discussion. We all are learning from your discussions and want to keep growing so please keep moving in this direction. Thanks!
Re: Publishing - You could try Symbolic World Press! It's a small, new publishing house started by Jonathan Pageau, which publishes graphic novels and illustrated fairy tales (so far). They would be able and willing to publish with all illustrations! 😊
omg this is the best present ever....this jungian life receive Becca Tarnas Thank youuuuuuu :) 4 of my favorite people... I'm gonna listen now but I already know it's going to be great.
LOVE THIS EPISODE ❤ in too many ways to count, but the top reason is the validation and confirmation of my own encounters in the imaginal realm- as I am finding myself there, bit by bit, I am discovering that I am real. Thanks so much Deb, Lisa, Becka, and Joseph (and Jung, Tolkien, Rowling, Coleridge...), this is a true gift.
I had 3 months of this realm and the first 1.5 I had NO IDEA what was happening in my life. I think everyone should have a mandatory week :/ especially people who don’t know how literal it is
The traditional baptism was to induce a near-death experience to bring a man to initiation of the other world. Brilliant. Loved the parallels between Jung and Tolkiens inner imaginative worlds and how they share common themes and characters. Philimon and Gandalf!
My doctoral research included a discussion of Corbin's ideas on the alem al mithal and religious architecture. It might seem like a big claim, but I believe his work is one of the keys to healing the civilizational divide between the West and the Islamic world. We need to have shared sacred, imaginal experience.
“Life is but a dream.” No big difference between living in a collective dream vs. “private sleeping dream.” It is no coincidence that words, phrases, imaginings, ideas and “psychosis” are inspired and experienced collectively, at the same time. We made a decision to incarnate in this window of time/space to experience these shared archetypal narratives. Some are living the dream more consciously than others. Are you a actor in the theatre or spectator/observer of show?
This is the first time I feel acknowledged by the more studious AND capable of extending into this very real other world that I know exists! I have a lifetime of evidence and references to attest that I have known so much that is logically impossible to know. AND of course I don’t own it but belong to it but my life IS a fairytale.
En el idioma español los significados de fantasía e imaginación difieren substancialmente. La imaginación tiene al menos un pie sobre tierra, mientras que la fantasía es un delirio volátil.
Thank you so much for this episode. One of my earliest memories is flipping through a book of images from Ralph Bakshi's trippy animated version of LOTR. My artist mother loved Tolkien and introduced me to Middle Earth before I could even read. Later in high school, I learned about Jung for the first time when we took the MBTI, an experience which helped me better integrate my introversion and see it as a strength instead of something to overcome. Bringing these two revolutionary creators together in the same discussion - brilliant! I learned so much from this conversation about both of them and their inner journeys into the imaginal realm. I credit both these men with having a huge impact on my own creative life - I write fantasy novels which I call my archetypal memoirs. It's so refreshing to hear more scholars taking Tolkien's work seriously. Literary fiction has been stuck on realism far too long - in many of the writers' groups I have participated in over the years, most assumed I was writing for children because of the fantastical elements in my stories. My university professors liked my poetry but really didn't understand why I wrote fantasy fiction. In desperation at one point, I started talking about my fantasy characters in a dream group - they felt like dreams to me. I truly believe that dreams and certain stories come from the same place. Creating feels like dreaming to me, except I'm awake. We have such a disconnect in our culture between the waking, "rational" world and the dream-scape. Thank you for helping people bridge this gap - it's a great way for people to unlock their creative, psychological, and spiritual potential.
I looove this episode. Thank you!
The concept that inventions or ideas may come through into different people & places at the same time from the imaginal to the manifest world makes me wonder: who began thinking the thoughts first (or opening to them being thought through them) and did the 1st occurrence pave the way for the 2nd? Does one opening to a thought-form make it more easily accessed by others? In practical application, I try to remind myself that by doing my inner work, conquering my fears, and confronting my blind spots, I am participating in the construction of a new (or strengthening of an existing) "neural network" within the Collective Unconscious that gives others a greater capacity to walk that same road that I've found so difficult. Each of us with our existential "cross to bear". ✨️🕯🦋
Both Carl Jung's The Red Book and J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) are monumental works that explore the depths of the human psyche and myth. Here's a breakdown of their connections:
Thematic Parallels
1 Myth and Archetypes:
• Jung: In The Red Book, Jung delves into mythic themes and universal archetypes like the Hero, the Wise Old Man, and the Shadow. These symbols are foundational to Jungian psychology.
• Tolkien: LOTR is rooted in myth and explores archetypal characters like Frodo (Hero), Gandalf (Wise Old Man), and Sauron (Shadow). The journey motif and transformation of characters embody archetypal storytelling.
2 Inner Journey and Individuation:
• Jung: Jung's exploration of the unconscious in The Red Book depicts his personal journey toward individuation, a process of integrating different aspects of the self.
• Tolkien: Frodo's journey to Mount Doom mirrors a psychological quest, where characters confront their inner darkness. The transformation of Aragorn into King Elessar can also be seen as an individuation journey.
3 Duality and Shadow:
• Jung: Jung emphasized integrating the Shadow as part of individuation. In The Red Book, he meets and integrates his Shadow aspects through characters like Philemon and the Red One.
• Tolkien: LOTR explores duality through characters like Gollum (a split personality) and the One Ring itself (symbolizing corruption and power). The struggle between good and evil is central.
4 Mythopoeia and the Subconscious:
• Jung: The Red Book is considered a mythopoeic work as Jung channels mythic imagery directly from his subconscious through active imagination.
• Tolkien: LOTR is a prime example of mythopoeia, drawing upon Tolkien's profound knowledge of language and folklore to create a rich mythos.
Symbolic Similarities
1 Symbols of Evil:
• Jung: The Red One (Satan), represents the destructive and chaotic force that Jung seeks to integrate.
• Tolkien: The One Ring is a powerful symbol of corruption and the Shadow.
2 Guides and Mentors:
• Jung: Philemon acts as Jung's guide in The Red Book, akin to a shamanic figure.
• Tolkien: Gandalf is a Wise Old Man guiding the Fellowship, much like Philemon.
Cultural and Biographical Influences
1 World War I and II:
• Jung: The horrors of WWI heavily influenced The Red Book. Jung saw the war as a manifestation of the collective unconscious.
• Tolkien: LOTR was influenced by both world wars, particularly WWII. The destructive nature of industrialization and totalitarianism permeate the narrative.
2 Language and the Unconscious:
• Jung: Jung explored the power of language through the dialogues in The Red Book.
• Tolkien: As a philologist, Tolkien created entire languages for Middle-earth, reflecting a deep connection between language and myth.
Integration of Masculine and Feminine
1 Jung's Anima/Animus:
• Jung: In The Red Book, Jung interacts with feminine aspects of his psyche, integrating them through the figures of Salome and the Anima.
• Tolkien's Female Characters:
• Galadriel represents wisdom and an archetypal feminine force.
• Éowyn embodies courage and the breaking of traditional roles.
Conclusion
The Red Book and The Lord of the Rings both serve as profound explorations of the unconscious through myth, symbol, and archetype. Jung and Tolkien each tapped into universal themes that resonate deeply with the human experience, offering insights into the inner journey of transformation and the struggle between light and dark forces within and around us.
I am so happy to be a fly on the wall during this discussion ❤
I’m just reading Henry Corbins ‘Creative Imagination in the Sufism of Ibn Arabi’ and am so grateful for your discussion including Corbin.
I am so grateful for you all. Thank you for your dedication and generosity 🙏
Absolutely love this discussion. The Tolkien/Jung imaginal connections, the psychology of Myer Briggs archetypal character development, and how astrology feeds into all of it. Fantastic. Very grateful to be introduced into Becca Tarnas who I will be exploring in depth. Thank you very much.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you! Lucid dreamers sometimes experiment with telling the people in their dreams, “You’re not real, you’re in my dream,” and the dream figures genuinely become defensive of their reality.
BTW, lucid dreaming would be an awesome topic to be covered, it would be brilliant to see yours take on it!
wonderful topic. Thank you for introducing me to Becca Tarnas.
Great show and really appreciate the level of discussion. We all are learning from your discussions and want to keep growing so please keep moving in this direction. Thanks!
Is anyone familiar with Rupert Sheldrake’s work on morphic resonance?
Yes. And?
Marvelous and insightful information on the aspects of creativity and reframing
how it is shared.
Thank you.
Genuine gratitude, AHO
I unconsciously and consciously gobbled this up.
Re: Publishing - You could try Symbolic World Press! It's a small, new publishing house started by Jonathan Pageau, which publishes graphic novels and illustrated fairy tales (so far). They would be able and willing to publish with all illustrations! 😊
omg this is the best present ever....this jungian life receive Becca Tarnas Thank youuuuuuu :) 4 of my favorite people... I'm gonna listen now but I already know it's going to be great.
How wonderful is this conversation! I missed first breakfast and second breakfast. I do feel like I have made four new friends (and maybe more.)
LOVE THIS EPISODE ❤ in too many ways to count, but the top reason is the validation and confirmation of my own encounters in the imaginal realm- as I am finding myself there, bit by bit, I am discovering that I am real. Thanks so much Deb, Lisa, Becka, and Joseph (and Jung, Tolkien, Rowling, Coleridge...), this is a true gift.
Wow really want to thank Joseph for the elaboration on the inner sensory , which ignites my curiosity about Rudolf Steiner
Very smooth and highly interesting talk, Becca Tarnas.
What a great conversation, thank you 🙏
I had 3 months of this realm and the first 1.5 I had NO IDEA what was happening in my life. I think everyone should have a mandatory week :/ especially people who don’t know how literal it is
Wow really love Becca Tarnas!
Loved this episode so much! Thank you 🙏🏻💜
I love this channel so much!!
The traditional baptism was to induce a near-death experience to bring a man to initiation of the other world. Brilliant.
Loved the parallels between Jung and Tolkiens inner imaginative worlds and how they share common themes and characters. Philimon and Gandalf!
My doctoral research included a discussion of Corbin's ideas on the alem al mithal and religious architecture. It might seem like a big claim, but I believe his work is one of the keys to healing the civilizational divide between the West and the Islamic world. We need to have shared sacred, imaginal experience.
Thank you so much for this video!! Amazing information!
“Life is but a dream.” No big difference between living in a collective dream vs. “private sleeping dream.” It is no coincidence that words, phrases, imaginings, ideas and “psychosis” are inspired and experienced collectively, at the same time. We made a decision to incarnate in this window of time/space to experience these shared archetypal narratives. Some are living the dream more consciously than others. Are you a actor in the theatre or spectator/observer of show?
Delightful! Thank you!
❤I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! ❤ Thank you, once again, for bringing oh, so much joy and insight into my life. A delightfully refreshing podcast. 🎉
Very cool! Thanks a lot!
❤ what a wonderful episode ❤
Wow, thank you for this!!! So deeply touching and nurturing. 🏞️🏞️🏞️
This is the first time I feel acknowledged by the more studious AND capable of extending into this very real other world that I know exists! I have a lifetime of evidence and references to attest that I have known so much that is logically impossible to know. AND of course I don’t own it but belong to it but my life IS a fairytale.
Haha! Yes! I’m an INFJ aka Elven! Think that was very true Joseph… made me giggle 🤭
I’m so excited to find out typology is Jungian! I thought it was developed by Myer Briggs!🎉
I've always said (since I was 13) that LOTR felt like the most true and real thing I'd ever read/watched. Still is.
Fascinating stuff.
😮 didnt know Tolkein also had a red book. Amazin
Wholesome
Great. 👏
Intj se 4th function lol not fi but great video
❤❤❤
If this were my dream I would look into doing a parasite cleanse.
Gut health
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🏆
En el idioma español los significados de fantasía e imaginación difieren substancialmente. La imaginación tiene al menos un pie sobre tierra, mientras que la fantasía es un delirio volátil.