40 - Elevator Shunt Power Monitor - Introduction to Fire Alarms
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- If someone turns off the shunt trip breaker, it renders all of the rest of the shunt trip setup useless. For this reason, we need to monitor the shunt trip power circuit. In this video I explain how we do that with an addressable monitor module and another MR-101 relay.
I’m in the industry about 12 years and all of these videos are some of the best anywhere. I recommend them to many of my colleagues, whether they are new or just needing to brush up. Thank you for all the effort you put in.
Even when relay contacts are labeled out of the box, ever manufacturer seems to have their own definition of “normal”. It’s excellent advice to always meter them. I just hooked up this circuit today because of this video, thanks again!
Wonderful videos, keep them coming Brother; we’ll be here supporting you.
My foreman was just asked this exact question over the phone just today! How to monitor the shunt. He didn't know. I'm going to share this with him. Another crew of ours was working on a military hangar getting ready for a fire test and this came up. Thank you. I'll be subscribing and letting my classmates and instructors know about your channel.
Thanks. Like most things, there are some caveats. There is a certain style of shunt trip breaker that comes with all sorts of built in pre-wired relays that only require an addressable relay and an addressable monitor module, but if you get all the stuff I've shown here (obviously your part numbers would be specific to your panel), then worst case you don't end up using the MR-101s.
please by all means put the good words around, i learnt heaps from this man and would love to hear he become famous and get some reward, Joe, we really appreciate your video! THANKS
very very well explained, cannot be better explained, can i use a RIB relay it is less expensive than that mr101
Thanks, and yes, as long as it's rated for the current.
Will you eventually be getting into smoke control and programming for that? Also have you worked with potter and Silent Knight systems? I'm in the Pacific Northwest and those are the 2 brands we commonly work with.
Lopside, probably not. That's pretty high level, and so site- and panel-specific. My intention here is to try to explain the basics for newer guys, at least at this point. I don't anticipate ever really getting into anything like that.
Basically you are making sure the Relay is getting the 120V power at all times...and report an alarm if it doesn't
Thanks. What the program do you use to make all this video animation?
It's all just Microsoft paint. I draw all the circuits and use screen capture software to record it.
what program are you using?
Just Microsoft paint and screen capture software
Can we just cut the neutrals wires? , I mean the hot wire straight to the elevator breaker and the neutrals in the frm-1,
the neutral wires doesn't have voltage?
And then we don't have to do extra work installing the Mrs-101 relays?
No, that's not how that works. The neutral wire still has the same current running through it that the hot has, since it's part of the circuit.
Thank you joe .
In this example, it looks like the monitor module is electrically isolated from the 120 volts. In the previous video, why couldn't it be done that way for the shunt trip relay? Is that the "much simpler method" you were talking about?
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying we could have avoided running the 120 volts through the addressable relay module? We need at way to turn on the MR-101, and so the only other option would be to pull 24 volts from the fire alarm panel to turn on the MR-101, but then we'd need to supervise that power AND the 120 volts. Please expound on what you're saying.
@@JoeKlochan I think this is what I had imagined:
Relay module: Normally open, powering shunt MR-101 at 24 VDC
MR-101 (shunt): Normally open to 120 VAC
MR-101 (power supervision): Powered by 120 VAC
Monitor module: Connected to MR 101 #2, normally closed
I'm not an electrician, and have no field experience whatsoever. I'm just an enthusiast trying to learn more about fire alarm systems. So apologies if I have no idea what I'm talking about.
@@Fahrenheit4051 I think the downside to that is that you'd kind of have to add another monitor module to supervise the 24 volts in addition to the MM supervising the 120. Some people don't like running the 120 through the addressable relay, and so this method may be preferred, but it's more equipment needed.
@@JoeKlochan What I like about Fahrenheit4051's option, is the idea of separating power limited circuits from 120 VAC (for some reason the 120 burned a Fire-Lite's CRF-300), and yes, that 24 VDC PS needs supervision. Just passed my final inspection two weeks ago... please keep those nice videos coming Joe, thank you.
@@joelcorvus5759 yeah his way would definitely work, and I don't think it's a bad option. You'd just need that extra monitor module and power supervision relay for the 24 volts.
Alternatively, some people turn on MR-101s with NAC circuits or control modules, landing the resistor right on the coil with the trigger wires. That way the circuit is supervised. So instead of an addressable shunt relay, you would have a control module turning on the MR-101. However, you still need 24 volts to that control module. Depending on your panel type, the 24 volts is inherently supervised by the control module if given the proper type code in programming (gamewell/fci doesn't have this capability for some reason).
One last quick point, system sensor (the manufacturer of the modules) makes a CB-500 barrier that gets installed behind relay modules to isolate the non-power limited 120 volts from the power limited SLC. That solves the problem Joel was talking about. However, in all honesty, I think I've seen that used once, and if you're not the one doing the pipework it may end up being useless depending on how the boxes get piped.
Shouldn't the T6 wire from FMM-1 pass through the resistor first before going to the NC of the Monitor Relay? Otherwise, with the relay normally energized, NC & C will be connected, thus shorting T6 & T7 of the FMM-1, causing an Alarm state?
Rewatch around the 3:00 mark. I emphasize that the labels on the relay don't apply, because the relay is now powered up, thus changing the state of the contacts. C/NC is now effectively C/NO, because the relay is activated.
@@JoeKlochan Ah I see. Because the relay contacts are across C/NO while the relay is energized, and the FMM-1 module itself is set to Supervisory, it would not cause an Alarm state if power to the relay is lost.
Couldn't you just use a mr201 instead of 2 mr101? One set of contacts for activating shunt trip and using the second set for the monitor module?
No because different events trigger the two relays. The power monitor relay needs to always be energized, and it would only activate if that 120 volt shunt trip circuit lost power.
The shunt trip relay is activated when the addressable relay passes 120 volt power through to it, energizing the MR101.
The MR-201 provides two sets of contacts, but only one trigger.
why are you t taping the hot directly to the breaker the shunt monitor relay should be connected to the hot red wire going to the shunt trip
No it shouldn't. That wire only has voltage on it when shunt is activated. The purpose of the shunt monitor is to ensure the 120 volt shunt trip circuit still has power.
@@JoeKlochan ok so its not to monitor when elevator is shunted but if someone has turn off the breaker for the shunt relay
Correct.