Hydraulic oil science. Base oils & Additives.
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2024
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awesome video neil, i work for a chemical company in north east Ohio and we actually produce a certain oil for a certain tractor company, and theres a lot that goes into making hydraulic oil, people don't realize but its definitely cool to know what the oil is for and what it goes into. definitely gives me a self pride knowing i m helping provide that company with an oil that moves their machines.
It is always nice to have a deep dive into a subject. I never did the hydraulic fluid but I did the coolant, and what a rabbit hole that was.
The first (and only) new vehicle I ever owned got 100% synthetic oil on its first servicing. 200K miles later, it has better emissions (0s across the board) than new vehicles.
Yes, I pay more at every oil-change, which only happen every 9k miles on average, but my vehicle is running better now than when it was new.
Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you..................
I always look at it this way. Good quality oil is cheap compared to replacing components and pumps. Anything internally lubricated is insanely expensive to replace or rebuild whether it's a vehicle, tractor, or lawnmower.
Well done Neil! You really did your homework.
I work at an auto parts store, and every couple of months I have a customer asking for "universal tractor oil". One time, having been asked that, I paused for a moment, thinking about how many ways it doesn't work like that, and reply "there's no such thing as 'universal' anything". Customer insisted he wanted "universal tractor" oil or fluid, whatever. Customer didn't leave happy.
We do sell some hydraulic oils, but if it's not AW32, AW46 or calling for Dexron III, all we can do is ask you for the spec and look at the back of the label.
Very good information Neal. Thanks for sharing. Well done!
Nice, I've noticed mine has some rust-staining. I also didn't really have an issue with replacing the hydraulic filter at 200 hours, the BX uses just under 5 gallons so there is more than an oil-filter-full of fluid to top off the machine.
I'm about to be at the 6-years-old mark so basically everything rubber on the machine needs replacing to avoid breakdowns in the next 800-1000 hours. Even my tires are chipping rubber now, just chemistry that comes with age.
Try reading your owners manual...BX takes 11L of UDT. And 6 year old rubber does not need replacing unless you left it to sit outside in the sun in the desert since it was new.
@@kmac6399 3.1 in the transmission & 1.25 in the front axle case , so 4.35 gallons total. Then I need some for the hydraulic filter change at 200 hours. So 5 gallons is just easier for me.
Sure UV doesn't help rubber but the belts will be stiff, & the fuel line will be deteriorated where it's shedding. My fuel lines are like black-chalk now.
Great video, Neil. I have a B2920 and only use Kubota HST oil. I was told Royal Purple should work but why take the chance. I bought a tractor that will last me for years, why cheap out on the oil.
Excellent video on a rarely explained topic. Thank you!
Very helpful, thanks for this. I had been wondering why I cant find specs on hydraulic fluid. This was very enlightening. You are the best, keep it up.
Well done, Professor Neill!!!!!
👍
Blew my mind when I got my tractor there wasn’t the same kind of standardization in hydraulic oil as with engine oil
Neil, since you are talking about hydraulic oils AND additives, maybe you can address an issue that is common within the social media "tractor" groups, and that is related to HYDRAULIC OIL DYE!
One universal comment heard all over the world is "I cannot see the hydraulic fluid level on either the dipstick OR the sight glass window. What can I do?"
I have questioned several Kubota dealers, AND have even written to Kubota Corporate's technical service department and asked about the use of hydraulic dyes and it's affect on the equipment WARRANTY! I get multiple answers, none of them being definitive!
In every instance the answer ends with the caveat that "the use of a hydraulic dye MIGHT void a warranty if the use of that product proves to be the cause of a failure thus voiding said warranty".
In other words, they will leave a "loophole" that would allow them to void a warranty.
My question is WHO PROVES THAT THE OIL WAS THE CAUSE OF A FAILURE?
These type of answers is what is keeping me from using a dye within my oils.
Why don't the different tractor manufacturers make their brand of oil VISIBLE???
that's the safe answer for anything. pretty much impossible it could ever cause a problem. Failure analysis is usually done at the dealer, and very infrequently ends up going back to the manufacturer of the part. I'd have no concern using a dye.
I think the UDT2 is thinner when warm, than the regular UDT. IDK if I prefer that but I'm not against it b/c a single 5 gallon bucket will last 400 hours for a BX.
Great video!
What kind of junk is in the junk drum next to the bulk fill system?
My zero turn lawn mower uses 20w - 50 motor oil for the hydraulics, and it pacifically states motor oil
I'm pretty sure mine wants 15w-50 synthetic.
Great presentation
This video rocks!
Great Information. Neil
I had a 2.5 gallon jug of Deere oil separate. The jug was unopened , but 4 years old. There was a thick white sludge on the bottom and very runny oil on the top. This oil is what Deere called for to fill the chain case in their skidsteers. Any idea why it separated ?
certain components can settle over time just sitting or just as they call it in the chemical world falling out , due to temp, humidity or anything else that changes where it sits
@@jimkasianides5676 Thanks for the reply. The oil was in an uninsulated pole shed and it does thermal cycle here in Iowa.
I guess I will start the just in time inventory thing instead of stocking up.
So do you have manufactured cross reference to guide people with purchasing hydraulic oil for their tractors.
For example, I have an LS XJ2025H from 2018 and was wondering what hydraulic oil I should use?
We can cross our fingers and sell a quality product, but we have no way to know if LS has something important in their formulation.
Would the base oil composition of UDT2 make up for the fact that UDT2 is about 400-500ppm lower on phosphorus and zinc additives compared to the other major brands and store brands that I had lab tested? UDT2 has the best viscosity index spec by a mile and cold weather performance of UDT2 beats even Amsoil, but I don't understand why the additives were to low in the UDT2 sample I had tested.
I watched your video and loved what you did. I'd be thrilled to try and build on that. There is a lot I don't know, but I do know that some of the additives used have to be shipped into the blender because it's not the typical stuff they use. I'd guess there is stuff in the pail that does not show on a typical oil test.
What if I let my neighbor use my grapple, am I getting his LS, Mahindra, John Deere, all the Chinese brand tractors oil in my system? Better yet a early Kubota that doesn't use synthetic oil.
You’re getting whatever they have in their system when you reattach to your tractor. Should never lend out hydraulic implements that can come back and contaminate your system.
My question is why does Kubota dye their OEM oil? There are other expensive oils out there that are rated for the same performance. HOWEVER when you add that oil, it will change the color of the OEM Kubota hydraulic oil so a dealer can tell they have been mixed.
You answered your own question. If there is a warranty issue because of an oil issue, they can tell and you will be SOL on getting it fixed under warranty.
you may find this observation exasperating, but I think you meant water had an exacerbating effect on foaming issues... 🙂
is true i can replace hydraulic oil whit engine oil ? someone said it will be better because hydraulic oil is not good quality oil
Rapeseed oil AKA Canola oil.
Interesting
Kubota is big on their private label SuperUDT.. Anyone have thoughts on the top premium Lucas hydraulic fluid to replace it in 2005/2006 BX series? I can get the Lucas minutes away. The K brand is 4 hour round trip, lost day, lots of fuel cost, and higher cost per gallon.
I spoke to a oil engineer a few years ago he told me to stick with the UDT2 as it was one of best specially in cold weather. It is made by a different company but unfortunately I can’t remember the name so it can be bought cheaper. I am sure some googling you can find it.
It's packaged by Shell. The additives though are not typical. Shipping oil is not cheap, but we do it every day.
@@toneychess8810 ..."best in cold". How cold is cold? It rarely gets below 32F where I live. I used to know a guy that retired a few years ago that had an excavation business that switched from generic hydraulic oils in his dozers and excavators to Lucas, and found that pumps and motors lasted about twice as long. Of course this is comparing the cheap stuff to Lucas, not K brand Super... I still have a hard time believing that K is SO much better than L...
@@MessicksEquip
Wow Neil hydro can very complicated. How long did you study hydro oil to learn all this. You have definitely done you homework! So basically use Kubota oil, basically gonna be hard to beat. How often should hydro oil and filters be changed, after changing the break in hydro oil? Thanks
You're fairly safe to change oil if your equipment is gear driven only, and no clutches inside, or hydrostatic transmissions. With anything besides regular gears, you need to be careful. This is the reason even back in the 90s, you need to use Chrysler transmission fluid in their cars, and the very common gm fluid killed those transmissions. It's all in the additives, but they matter a lot.
Stens 770-734 Stens Shield Hydraulic Oil claims to be UDT compatible. Mystic JT5 similar. Since Kubota is the only one brdning UDT and Super UDT2, I assume this is compatible with the non synthetic Kubota fluid. Only reason I would look for non Kubota is if I can't get any or in a bind when needing fluid on a Saturday or Sunday when the dealer is closed. Whats interesting is my B2410 was sold to me with JD fluid in it and has never had Kubota UDT in it for 22 years now. Dealer said the JD fluid is just as good and less expensive.
UDT is a pretty common base oil, there are probably other options that are fairly close to it. Its SUDT that's a bit of an anomaly. Its performance is better than UDT (quieter, cooler operation,etc) and there is only one real option I am aware of that even claims compatibility with that.
@@MessicksEquip From what I read, the S means it is fully Synthetic. Kubota unfortunately holds the ingredients too close to the belt to know for sure. With a $45K tractor though, going to stick with what it came with, provided I can get it.
Dump some Skydrol LD-4 Aviation Hydraulic Fluid into a tractor and see what happens when you use the wrong hydraulic fluid. Once upon a time I knew someone who had to replace every hydraulic line in his backhoe because he thought "hydraulic fluid is hydraulic fluid".
So. The bottom line is go only with the recommended brand of oil recommended by the manufacturer. I've got a JD compact tractor, so l guess I've got to get JD oil to try to keep my tractor from early destruction, and still that's not a certainty.
So buy the most expensive oil.
You mean the hydraulic oil that the dealership makes the most money off of? Smile
@@tonytango6676 Thats not always the most expensive
buy the right oil for the purpose...in-warranty buy factory products so the dispute (if any) is lessoned. (And Grease). If any dispute can argue about meeting the factory obligations. After warranty use whatever oil you want...... In my opinion, as a newbie, use factory oils for years to come....the $$$ on oil is minuscule vs repair costs
Honestly, if you're going to roll the dice, I would do the opposite. Run whatever fluid you want in warranty when you have a chance of a claim being paid, and run the right stuff afterwards when the risk is on you.
@@MessicksEquip That is not a sound theory . The damage could happen and when the equipment is taken in for repair and the oil is checked for a cause of failure , they will say it's improper maintenance. The thing to look for when shopping for oil is "approved" by your OEM , not meets oem specs. Like I was always told by my grandfather, "you did not save money, you just didn't spend it yet"
I worked for a fleet company for many years. The lowest bid got the contract for the oils and grease. ( THIS DECISION WAS MADE BY A SECERARY IN THE OFFICE WHO KNEW NUTHING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOOD OR BAD JUST PRICE.) We got some real shitty stuff from bulk...Stay away from bulk.