Andrew Neil interviews Anders Tegnell - a second wave and what Sweden got right | SpectatorTV
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Andrew Neil interviews Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist. He asks what the country has got right in its response to coronavirus, whether a second wave is coming, and if the UK can learn from his approach.
// Subscribe to The Spectator
Subscribe: Get your first month for free
www.spectator....
// FOLLOW US
/ spectator
/ officialspectator
/ the-spectator
![Eminem - Fuel (Shady Edition) feat. Westside Boogie & GRIP [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1OquBida9s/mqdefault.jpg)
I was so skeptical in the beginning of this pandemic and critiqued him because I felt they needed to be more transparent with the numbers, but now after being in Sweden for 10 months l have had a complete change of heart. We moved to Sweden over 30 years ago from authoritarian Iran, and then years after l started traveling and studying in the US and then moved to NZ. Now I cannot wait to come back home, to my beloved Sweden. All this thanks to Tegnell for showing me what true democracy is! I respect him so much and never been so happy to be so wrong about someone.
What a great guy. No sensationalism. Modesty. Honesty. Integrity.
richard williams, well he is a swede. What did you expect?
Anti Matters Too :-)
@Nicola Kistler no I will follow him everywhere. He own his misstakes and allways says if he is not sure.
@mary ward In Sweden he's perfect for it :) /swedish journalist
Johan Giesecke is like this, too. I love to listen to people like this.
Thank you Sweden, you have made it much harder for other countries to maintain the lie.
What was the objective of the lie, and who instigated it?
@Birgitta Nilsson BS Birgitta. New Zealand has crashed their economy for decades and Denmark and Norway see more covid cases.
The simplest, most benign lie is that collective Governments got this wrong and won’t admit it. This is a fact, regardless of any conspiracy theories which daily are looking less ridiculous.
Thank you 💕 And. more and more people see through this bullshit.
Also note that Sweden has had their borders open (as they should be inside the EU) during this whole pandemic. Swedes on the other hand has been banned from travelling because the lockdowns in other countries. We have had restrictions on travel from outside of Europe though as that was a EU decision. Very disappointed in our neighbours who let their fear break the open borders policy.
Imagine if we grilled our scientists and politicians with actual questions...
Exactly. No gotcha questions or sensationalism. Just a search for answers.
The art of politics is not to supply a definitive answer in order not to be held accountable later!
So ALL politicians lie, it just that some make the lies palatable to the public at large. These are the successful ones! The unsuccessful ones forget their lies and are caught out!
Then there are those who heap lie, upon lie, upon lie and still get away with it - know who I mean? ☺ They are, in normal circumstances, Dictators!
We do, but many people don't understand their significance so they can't understand the worth of the answers.
There is a very good reason why our scientists and politicians don't want to be questioned like this.
@Fred Dibna THIS ONE! Maybe you're on a different planet?
Anders is spot on when he says it should not be viewed as a 'competition' to see who is best, though I do wish someone would tell Sturgeon this.
If this was a competition Sweden would have lost. So of course he doesn't want us to see it as a competition.
@@marin803 per annum they have had 8-9000 covid deaths. way off what Ferguson predicated of 80,000 if sweden continued on no lockdown route lol.
massive error in numbers here.
@@marin803 c19 is irrelevant. Long term excess deaths is all that matters, and Sweden had less excess deaths even than Australia and New Zealand. Sweden may not be the absolute winner, but I would have chosen Sweden over ANY other country since March 2020.
MY DEEP ADMIRATION FOR COURAGE AND SCIENTIFIC APPROACH TO JUST ANOTHER EPIDEMIC IN HUMAN HISTORY. ANDREW K. MD
Andreaw Kauffman is right and what we now witness is steps closer to paradigm.
Good interviewer
I spent 4 months in Sweden this year, 3 months between mid March and mid June and again 4 weeks mid August mid September.
This country is amazing and it was the right country to be in at the time.
I ve read Swedes s....g on their own country on different podcast and obviously they didn’t know Eve from Adam. They could have gone to France and enjoy their crazy lock down that was looking like a police state with the police behaving in a shocking way.
The proof is in the pudding and the pudding says......Sweden has the lowest infection rate as we speak when all other countries are running like headless chicken.
Plus, the Swedish constitution is a beautiful piece of work that forbids lock down in time of peace.
And now they have 6000 dead, tens of thousands with long term covid illness, and are known as a pariah state filled with egocentric granny killers.
@@SomeOnesSon80 people will die from this virus whether you like it or not those that had lockdown only delayed death from covid. You comment just shows how littel you know about this topic
@@SomeOnesSon80 I don't think it would be better to have 6000 dead AND a lockdown.
SomeOnesSon @ speaking of long term illness.....did you know the virus gets to your brain ? Mind you.....you re a living proof of that
@@SomeOnesSon80
It's not 6000 dead of COVID-19.
It's 6000 dead with COVID-19 infection, that mean if you dying of cancer you would count as COVID-19 death if you was or have been infected with COVID-19.
So most of the 6000 would have died anyway without a COVID-19 spread in Sweden.
If you checked the death in Sweden compared to other years you will see its almost the normaly number of dead. Its little higher so far in 2020 but 2019 there was more people not dying compare to other years then more dying 2020. Less dead 2019 gives more old people 2020.
Very thought provoking and not an axe being ground anywhere! Good stuff Andrew and The Spectator!
Yep. Just good probing questions. Andrew Neil is a legend
I live in Sweden. From the beginning of the pandemic I have followed the news worldwide on RUclips. I have always believed in the Sweden strategy but now I´m convinced we did the right thing. Even though we did not have a lockdown I have always been careful. No parties, keeping distant to everyone. wash my hands and always have a bottle of alcogel with me. It was very difficult and strange in the beginning but I can live with it now. I do miss hugging my friends an family. For me it feels like the world gone crazy, run by fear, politics and propaganda. As a Swede I do believe in common sense, but to get that we all need good information that is not run by scared politicians. Our freedom is the most important we have, but it seems to have got lost, especially in Australia. The worst for you in a long term is being locked in and not socialize with other people. It feels like it has become dictatorship in many countries. Hang in there and start think for yourself.
As a fellow Swede I agree. The Swedish approach showed a strength of democracy and care of the ”little person” in a way I doubted we still had in us (Sweden has after all gone towards the populist right too in the past decade). Very proud of all of society except those scientists who aren’t epidemiologists or know anything about viruses, but attack Tegnell and co just to get their names in the paper).
Anyone that is interested in immunological science in relation to the SARS- COV-2 pandemic, here is a very basic virology overview, that for some reason is not being discuses by the scientific community.
Because we have all been exposed to several different Corona viruses from past pandemics and they all share similar RNA code and borrowed and hijacked micro-molecular machinery, there is a partial T-Cell immunity memorization response happening in every new infection with SARS-COV-2 even though it is considered a novel virus. This is precisely why in the vast majority of the infections the symptoms are very weak or completely benign. (MPIE) mass population immunization by exposure (herd immunity) is the only way this type of virus outbreak ever comes to an end, through virulence dilution by infection saturation throughout the healthy population. This is nothing new however and is precisely how all past corona outbreaks have ever ended.
History dictates that a vaccine will not be effective for SARS-COV-2, as they have never been effective for any Cor/viruses, (and very poor flu virus response also) due to the rapid antigenic shift (mutating) properties of the spike or surface proteins within the viral RNA polymerase caused by the hijacked malfunctioning Ribosome's replication system inside the cells nucleus. By the time a vaccine is developed and tested the viral RNA genomic blueprint will have altered enough to make the vaccines effectiveness nullified and useless and round it goes with microbiologists/chemists, always playing a dog chasing its tail catch up game with a perpetually error prone and weakening virus.
The risk and damage with SARS-COV-2 by all the scientific evidence, data and math is several magnitudes less than what is being discussed by the scientific community. At the end of Dr. David Katz podcast he cites in detail the most comprehensive detailed scientifically data based summery to date with sources and hyperlinks to the references of all the actual data and numerical statistical math, verifying this immunological and mathematical fact and reality, that the damage from SARS-COV-2 is massively less than previously understood and currently being reported.
It is long overdue for the world leaders to acknowledge this, instead of the constant round and round cycle from a small community of career infectious disease experts, politicians and the media trying desperately to remain relevant and prove to the world that they were right! ruclips.net/video/q6LB2Rp44zA/видео.html globalnews.ca/news/7085775/coronavirus-false-hope/
Yeah, we put a lot of responsibility on the individual instead of having the state hammer down some semi-totalitarian rules that has become so clear in a number of nations around the world because of this.
That's why cases are increasing the last few days in Sweden, and even Tegnell showed concerned about this on today's press conference.
I live in Sydney and my freedom hasn't been impacted. I go out to the beach, to the gym, to bars and restaurants (cap on numbers to allow for social distancing), to see my mates etc....
Travel in and out is restricted, as it is between certain states.
Melbourne is in lockdown- and supported by most Melburnians.
So your info is inaccurate.
A man with integrity. Something completely lacking from the UK political establishment and that of many other countries.
So we know the already discredited Imperial model is inferior to the model used by Sweden. Perhaps the government should stop taking advice from imperial and ask Mr Tegnell nicely if they can borrow his expertise?
Thank goodness there are some people who can see what's really been going on with the UK government's lies around Covid-19. Frankly when I go out I want to stand in my High Street and scream at all the clowns wearing masks. I'm sick of what the panic reaction has done to people's minds - how can they not see behind the scare mongering? And how can one emigrate to. Sweden? Thank you Andrew and your guest for a very interesting interview
To emigrate to Sweden, just get on a plane and there you are in Sweden. Register with the Swedish tax authority before Dec 31 this year so you benefit from the protections of the Brexit withdrawal agreement, and your right to move to Sweden is assured under EU FOM laws, just as it was before Brexit.
Wait until next year and you might have trouble.
Leave now before transition ends, or rejoin the EU next year, they would be your best bets for emigrating to Sweden
I'm in California and believe me I know exactly how you feel. Blows me away how so many highly educated and intelligent people have just fallen for this over reaction, no questions asked. Simply mind blowing. Wish I could relocate to Sweden. You're not alone in knowing the truth about this. With time more will see. Hang in there.
Finally an interview that allow Anders to actually answer and give a broader picture of Sweden and its strategy. That has not been the case earlier. I like his honesty about failures early on (care homes for example) and that he does not want to compare, beacuse - ”it is not a competition”!
Talking about deaths in old age healthcare is always virtue signalling. Turnover rates in those places is 20% of beds per annum. Old people will die. We should never judge our epidemiology based on that.
The calm humility of Anders Tegnell stands in sharp contrast to the smugness of Neil Ferguson, and shows that one is a true scientist and the other is a self-important individual who is in denial over the failings of his own models; and seems to relish his position and imposing controls over other people's lives.
I recommend listening to BBC Radio 4's Today programme interview (19 September 2020)with Neil Ferguson (available on BBC sounds, starting at around 20 minutes past 8am). Leaving aside the very gentle ride given to Prof Ferguson by Justin Webb, Ferguson is in denial about just how different Sweden's approach has been, compared to the UK's. Ferguson claims that "Sweden is not back to normal and behaviour is very different from a year ago". So far, so reasonable, but he went on to add "there are social distancing and local restrictions, so Sweden is not as different from this country (the UK) as you might imagine". No mention of most Swedish schools never closing down at all, and higher schools and colleges opening much earlier than ours; no mention of Swedes not wearing face masks, nor of Swedish bars, restaurants etc remaining largely open as usual; no mention of Sweden's relatively modest fall in GDP. Why does the BBC allow Ferguson to be so selective and economical with facts that we can all see clearly for ourselves? Justin Webb never even asked Ferguson why the increasing numbers of positive test results remain resolutely disconnected from hospital admission and death numbers.
Ferguson has been at the heart of the 'scientific' body advising the UK government and in the Today interview he states that "my own view is that, at the moment, a temporary lockdown (less restrictive than the one in March) would pull down infection numbers to allow the testing system to cope." When did the 'testing system' become more important than the health and wellbeing of the whole population? I'd also take issue with the term 'infection numbers' rather than 'positive PCR test results' but it's no surprise that the UK government's covid-19 policy flaps around like a weather vane in a storm, when people like Ferguson remain influential. I'd love to hear Ferguson being interviewed by Andrew Neil, but I doubt that Ferguson would ever agree to come on to Spectator TV.
I'll go and listen to that interview, thanks for the tip. Quite incredible that Ferguson is still being wheeled out every now and then and continues to be treated as an authority in spite of the increasingly undeniable evidence that there are more authoritative experts whose views should demand our attention.
It was Justin Webb who interviewed Jonathan Sumption recently and kept interrupting him. At the very end of the interview, discussing the government's recent 'rule of six' restrictions Webb asked "Would you encourage people, if they feel strongly, as you do, to flout these laws?" to which Sumption replied "I would say that people should make their own decisions in the light of their own health and that the law should be a secondary consideration for them." I'm glad Sumption said it and it echoes my own view but I feel the interviewer thought that he'd got a controversial scoop with that reply rather than an important view to share with the general public.
The brief Sumption interview: ruclips.net/video/T_6p2jdbm6U/видео.html
Hugo. I am guessing you live in Sweden. Many of your points are correct with regards to what happened here. But I would question your evaluation of the economic situation. Sweden is struggling. There are approximately 10.2 million people in Sweden and approximately 4 million are working (this number is provisionally lower as unemployment figures are changing) the level of unemployment is higher than projected. Lives were lost. Jobs were lost. Companies went into administration.
My point is that no country seems to have faired better. No one got it right. I don't believe anything other than what I experience with my own eyes, ears and interpretation of said stimulus. My opinion is that Sweden values the economy over individual lives (rightly or wrongly is another debate) and sadly both suffered. One thing I am sure of......neither you nor I will ever know the truth.
It is incredible the way Ferguson sounds off. If I had his record I would never speak in public again and find another line of work.
@@Spottius No, I'm in the UK, but it is clear that the economic impact of lockdown here is more severe than in Sweden. Time will tell regarding 'who got it right' but I feel it would be safe to place a bet on Anders Tegnell rather than on the 'experts' advising the UK government.
He is far too humble, almost to the point of being disingenuous.
I went to the National Gallery here in London recently; what a miserable experience that was. I had to book in advance and was given a set time to visit three days later. Once there I had to take my bag off my back and wear it around my front for some weird reason that the girl there couldn't explain to me. We were then all forced to walk around in one direction following arrows on the floor. I missed a side gallery and was stopped from going through a door that had an arrow pointing in the opposite direction (even though there was no one else in the section I wanted to go into). I was told I would have to go around again following the arrows. I came out thinking how depressing the whole experience was. All the joy and spontaneity had been sucked out of it by over-zealous jobsworthery.
I have worked as a data analyst in a medical data capacity and I have to say that the manner in which the UK data is presented is shockingly appalling.
There is no way the data can be correct for three reasons:
(1) no error bars are shown in the graphs.
(2) the sensitivity of the tests is not given.
(3) the specifivity of the tests is not given.
You can use models for prognosis, but only in the case where the model has been developed and verified with the use of an RCT.
Indeed. We have a double layer of bullshit approach.
1) The stats are bollocks and, dare I say it, consciously fiddled: fraudulent.
2) The media reports these awful stats in a way as to make them even more awful. At least if they provided CONTEXT in their reporting people would still get a base idea of what is truly happening.
For example: "3,000 new cases today". But they don't report the total number of tests. People shit themselves when they hear that figure but if they knew 200,000 test results had come in.... 3,000/200,000 doesn't sound bad at all really does it. (We won't go into false positives etc. ..... )
Hayley Longster Hayley, you’re right. It’s MUCH worse even than you paint. I’m experienced in several analytical techniques, including PCR. I have uncovered that the false positive rate of the test used in mass, community screening is 0.8%. The prevalence of virus until the most recent prevalence update was 0.05%. The effect of this is that fully 95% of positive tests have been FALSE. Therefore we don’t have say 4000 new cases per day, but 200. Now the background prevalence is now 0.1%, so just 90% of positive tests are FALSE. It completely useless as a massed, surveillance screen. U.K. govt was warned by staff scientists in early June NOT to use this PCR test without alterations, because of the extraordinarily high level of false positives.
I have a strong belief that this test should be withdrawn from use in population screening.
I think that's unfair, you are assuming the government are using experts in their field. They actually dig up the worst mathematical modellers of all time, as this would assist with panic driven fear, for control and political points. "never let a crisis go to waste".
@@steveyGBUK it does make me wonder. I work as a software developer and the brightest developers I work with are also the most humble.
What it makes me wonder is that perhaps the government scientists are not the best but merely the most greedy for attention and money.
I read part of a code review of the model on which the first lockdown was based - the code review ripped the model and code to pieces.
Even me, a fairly unknown middle of the road software developer, would never write the sort of crap that the code review revealed.
Slartibartfast specifically which data sets are you referring to, links if you can to support your comments.
Refreshing humility and honesty.
Yeah, there are a few in UK, in particular among the media channels that surely could benefit from learning just that.
As a Swede I’m really happy about the way that our scientists (Anders first and foremost) chose to react to covid!
As a co-Swede I fully agree. The right person, in the right place, at the right moment. We sure were lucky.
A Tegnell statue should be placed next to Sir Winston Churchill, why? He's not even British? No, but for a lot of us, he is a true hero....how this man managed to continue on his path with all the criticism, is truly remarkable. If Tegnell is like Churchill, then Boris is like......
Would someone please forward this to the BBC “news team” please? With the heading “how to perform an unbiased and informative interview” .
non of what this guy says even matters if he is not making the point of the fact that the tests have been junk and the rt pcrt test is not a viable source for determining cv19 cases ! In fact there is no reliable test being used by any country that is actually looking for the cv19 virus!
@MrJuggernaute yep and second sentence of second paragraph on page 39 of www.fda.gov/media/134922/download the cdc
admits they have never isolated the virus
''Since no
quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available, assays designed for detection of the
2019-nCoV RNA were tested with characterized stocks of in vitro transcribed full length RNA .....
amazing how they tell us the truth of the scamdemic but so many just are not getting it!
cheers @mrjuggernaute
Humble, human, honest, and straightforward answers right from the very first question.
Interesting to think that had Sweden locked down and had exactly the same amount of deaths as they have had (~5000), many people would have said that the lockdown saved 80,000 lives, pointing to the Imperial College London model that when applied to Sweden (by Uppsala University and Karolinska Institutet I've been told*) predicted 85,000 deaths in an hypothetical unmitigated situation. They would say that lockdown worked brilliantly, just as it has in the UK!
*later correction from "by Lund University I believe" due to information from a fellow poster.
Yes, conveniently ignored predictions ;)
Charles Badoola our own model showed 6000 death.... soon there
@@bulletnutz6382 Which model?
omg I have not thought about it like that. So true!
@@biomedphil Thank you for the correction!
"It is very rare to find a scientist that can admit he/she was wrong - just like in the rest of society." - yes, it's a human failing (If you haven't read the evolutionary biologist Robert Trivers' book "Deceit and self-deception" you may want to, it's excellent). That's why, of course, scientists should hold back from making wild claims. Anders Tegnell seems to be very restrained with his theories whilst Johan Gieseke a little more forthright, which I think is good. It was very interesting when Tegnell admitted that Sweden had made mistakes with the care homes (as did most of the countries who were hit early with SARS-CoV2) and it was immediately and disingenuously reported in the international press with headlines such as "Top epidemiologist admits he got Sweden's COVID-19 strategy wrong"* implying that he regretted the whole Swedish response.
It is my view that people are terrified of Sweden's response proving to be the most sensible because it would mean that their own countries' strategies, and those that they personally championed and clamoured for, have led to an unnecessary catastrophe of economic and social destruction on top of the damage caused by the actual virus itself.
*nationalpost.com/news/world/top-epidemiologist-admits-he-got-swedens-covid-19-strategy-wrong
This man sounds like a calm and intelligent professional compared to the equivalent Chiefs in the UK who simply shout "We're all gonna die if you don't comply!!!"
"We're all gonna die if you don't comply!!!" LMAO! Sad but true.
Anders Tegnell is a liar tho. Do not believe anything that swedish authorities say
Anders Tegnell is the state epidemiologist of Sweden. He has experience of empidemics like Ebola in Africa and SARS and MERS.
@@tedlindstrom1365 Where is your evidence for saying this?
@@johnsmythe7940 He/she is just a troll, payed by someone/some state probably
Compare the honesty of this man, his admission of mistakes made in the Swedish response with regard to care homes etc with the hyperbole, denials lies and nonsense coming out of the British government.
Listen to Hancock a creep if there ever was one.
Scientists are gonna be scientific.
Seems strange why choose or talk to Sweden as a Covid lesson ie I get they didn’t lockdown but that was their Governments decision life didn’t just continue people enforced their own lockdown. Researchers have shown that the majority of their population not only kept socially distance but where more engaged in washing hands and using masks mainly because the government didn’t take action.
Norway and Denmark did lockdown and their numbers are better, if you wanted to compare or even learn lessons why aren’t we talking to Taiwan.
One of the key factors in Taiwan’s success has been the use of innovative information technology, which works with the National Health Insurance (NHI) system and the national Central Epidemic Command Center (CECC). This system played a vital role in controlling the covid-19 pandemic in Taiwan.
Three measures have been identified by researchers as critical steps in controlling the spread of covid-19: contact-tracing, testing, and quarantine or isolation-treatment. Effective execution of these measures hinges on effective leadership and a strong public health infrastructure.
They should be the model the whole of Europe could follow we all have adequate systems but especially here in the UK we had the opportunity to do this.
I find the spectators choices contrived as it seems to want to ignore real data and present an independent journalistic conversation while promoting misinformation.
Tegnell honest?
He has only told lies and still tells lies.
He still says that kids doesn't spread the virus and people without symtoms too doesn't spread it. The only thing I see is a lunatic that tries to justify his extreme failure and he has the whole Swedish MSM behind him trying to save the face of Sweden for the world.
@@mistwalker1985 I need a source on those two claims. He even stated in the video @15:20 that younger people attracted the virus.
I wish we'd had the courage of our convictions and continued with our Swedish plan. But I understand why that was politically untenable. What a horrible situation for any government, left or right, to be in.
You can imagine, having seen the way our media covered the lockdown, the way they would have judged a lighter approach. ‘So minister, what would you like to say Mrs Jones who has lost her mother as a result of your selfish, economy first policy?’
Spot on.
@@mcannon1974 Well exactly. I saw commentary from the left saying it was a Cummings plot to kill old people and reduce our pension bill! And they were reporting this like it was a fact.
Agreed (apart from the bit about continuing with the Swedish plan) no governing body expected this. 2020 the year written by George Orwell and Stephen King
The Swedish epidemiologists seem like the only sane experts during this debacle. The UK government listened to scientific advice... it was just from the wrong people unfortunately. I believe the experts at Oxford University would have given much more sensible guidance.
you gotta wonder which way round the advice flows between the political powers and the 'scientific' bodies like Imperial College London.
Here in USA we sadly listened to Dr. Fauci, who was directly instrumental in the development of COVID ($3+million grant to the Wuhan Virology Lab to 'study' genetic modification of corona viruses, in 2014), and who predicted "There will be a pandemic in 2020" in 2018, and who just "happens" to own the patents on the COVID genome which must be used in the development of any vaccine ($$$$$). PLANDEMIC all the way. 😡Evil evil person.
Anyone that is interested in immunological science in relation to the SARS- COV-2 pandemic, here is a very basic virology overview, that for some reason is not being discuses by the scientific community.
Because we have all been exposed to several different Corona viruses from past pandemics and they all share similar RNA code and borrowed and hijacked micro-molecular machinery, there is a partial T-Cell immunity memorization response happening in every new infection with SARS-COV-2 even though it is considered a novel virus. This is precisely why in the vast majority of the infections the symptoms are very weak or completely benign. (MPIE) mass population immunization by exposure (herd immunity) is the only way this type of virus outbreak ever comes to an end, through virulence dilution by infection saturation throughout the healthy population. This is nothing new however and is precisely how all past corona outbreaks have ever ended.
History dictates that a vaccine will not be effective for SARS-COV-2, as they have never been effective for any Cor/viruses, (and very poor flu virus response also) due to the rapid antigenic shift (mutating) properties of the spike or surface proteins within the viral RNA polymerase caused by the hijacked malfunctioning Ribosome's replication system inside the cells nucleus. By the time a vaccine is developed and tested the viral RNA genomic blueprint will have altered enough to make the vaccines effectiveness nullified and useless and round it goes with microbiologists/chemists, always playing a dog chasing its tail catch up game with a perpetually error prone and weakening virus.
The risk and damage with SARS-COV-2 by all the scientific evidence, data and math is several magnitudes less than what is being discussed by the scientific community. At the end of Dr. David Katz podcast he cites in detail the most comprehensive detailed scientifically data based summery to date with sources and hyperlinks to the references of all the actual data and numerical statistical math, verifying this immunological and mathematical fact and reality, that the damage from SARS-COV-2 is massively less than previously understood and currently being reported.
It is long overdue for the world leaders to acknowledge this, instead of the constant round and round cycle from a small community of career infectious disease experts, politicians and the media trying desperately to remain relevant and prove to the world that they were right! ruclips.net/video/q6LB2Rp44zA/видео.html globalnews.ca/news/7085775/coronavirus-false-hope/
Hi, Sunetra Gupta of Oxford Uni presented a different model but was ignored. Guess she was more accurate judging by her view point on media now.
But gates funds whitty and imperial college and boris i suspect is in his pocket too
Tegnell: This is not a competition, we are not trying to win a award. We are just trying to do our best for the public health!
I’m so glad he said that! So many countries/politicians view it as a competition🤦♂️ It’s so ridiculous in my view
Doing his best for the public health might earn him the Darwin award...
I agree. I think it's disgusting the way Tegnell and the Swedish strategy has been demonised in the international press. I for one will remember what some people have said about the Swedish response, and if I hear them at the coffee table or the bar saying something like "yeah, people did go crazy about covid-19, I always suspected Sweden had it right" I will put down my cup/glass and remind that person in front of everybody exactly what they said at the time and how they were part of the hysteria!
@SavageArfad Why should he have resigned?
@@charlesbadoola535 Why is not Bolsonaro of Brazil your role model? They had as relaxed attitude and as high mortality.
SavageArfad Some thing for you to think about. Media has painted Sweden’s response as a huge gamble, the problem is aren’t all countries gambling? And actually I think Sweden placed less big of a bet than other countries! Here’s why:
We know if we suppress the virus transmission but then take alway the measures while the population still have not built up immunity yet, the virus WILL bounce back, there WILL be another wave of transmission. That’s epidemiology 101 and that’s being shown in many countries right now.(Spain, France, UK and Germany is starting to see the trend as well, the list goes on)(Italy and Sweden, although their case number are rising but it’s in a much slower pace than others, the partial herd immunity likely is part of the reason why)
Back to why I said every country is gambling: If we don’t let people getting infected and build up the immunity naturally, the only other way is to use a vaccine to build up the immunity in the population and building up the immunity in the population is the ONLY why to slow down the transmission indefinitely!
We are now gambling on the vaccine, that it’ll come out in the foreseeable future(has never been done before btw) and that enough people will feel safe and are willing to get vaccinated! Or of course a very effective treatment that can dramatically lower the fatality rate. If they both didn’t work out, then we’ve simply sacrificed the economy and caused other public health issues and social problems (those will cost human lives as well) while achieving absolutely NOTHING(since the virus WILL come back and vulnerable people will still die)
Now do you still think their decisions are really that bad that they have to resign? Because bottom line is: no country were certain about what they were doing in March and it’s too soon to tell what the right decision actually is (if there even is one)
It's disappointing that Tegnell didn't question PCR testing. As we know, this test is a waste of time.
Some of us think that it’s a waste of time - but it’s worse than that, given what is being done with it at present.
@@johnkeepin7527 Yes. But the minimum I would expect from him is that PCR testing is a waste of time. It would be too much to expect him to go to the sinister aspects of what is going on. He would be destroyed by the MSM if he did that.
@@johnkeepin7527 its is a tool of social control - pseudo science best tool of all
no, he can-t tell the truth - poor dear, we can-t have that.
Why should he?
Like Anders says, only time will tell. The countries that are held up as models because of low infection rates, like New Zealand, Norway etc, could well just be delaying the inevitable. Ultimately Swedens less dramatic measures are what we should all be hoping is the best approach, I find it strange people who seem desperate for it to be a failure.
Excellent interview Andrew, we need more of this caliber media. A calm intelligent discussion which avoided the typical scaremongering and contributed greatly to helping the public gain greater insight to C19. Thank you 🙏
I think we should have relaxed everything by now and let things take their course. Tens of thousands are dying of other illnesses. This policy is itself killing people! This is not being talked about enough. I LOVE the Big Ben chimes.... missed the sound.
Agreed. The crux of the problem now is that the British government don't have the same options that they had at the start of all this, and many of the problems are of their own making. Once you set off full steam ahead down the lockdown route you have left the crossroads behind and it is very difficult to change direction. It's what Gieseke, to name but one expert, was warning about right at the start of all this. It's what the British government do not appear to have considered at all, in fact they made it worse with their intentional fear mongering that had the effect of shovelling coal into the steam engine's furnace and snapping off the brake lever.
The government and the vast majority of the media have told people that they shouldn't have to face the risks involved in exposure to covid-19 and that is now the mainstream view. It will be very difficult indeed to tell those same people to get on with their lives and accept the risk, and politically disastrous for anybody who attempts to do it.
I fear we will have to waste hundreds of billions of pounds more before people really do realise that this 'runaway and hide' strategy is a total disaster.
@@charlesbadoola535 The classic case, is it not, of being unable to admit you are wrong and this denial causes more casualties than it was meant to prevent. It is tragic, in the true sense of the word. Never in British history did I believe for one moment we were capable of such disgusting (and I use that word without apology) behaviour from a British government. We are acting like a banana republic (indeed such states have had better results due to their demographics of course!). I wake up every morning in despair. This is from a usually 'best of British' attitude type of gentleman. I am feeling a mental fog now. We just let go of our 16th and final employee. Thanks Boris!
@@richardwills-woodward5340 Yes, I feel the same. I've been very careful with my words but with my wife I have admitted, and it felt weird saying it, that I have never before in my life felt embarrassed by my country. It is reassuring to know though that there are people who disagree with the strategy we have taken and that the country I know still exists in the form of people such as Jonathan Sumption.
I'm sorry to hear of the effect this is having on your business and the lives of yourself and your former employees. This is a man-made disaster on an immense scale, I'm getting angry thinking about it.
You must have felt the same frustration as I have trying to reason with people on this subject, it's extremely difficult. That simplistic mantra "lives before the economy" has brainwashed people into thinking that this is a simple issue and that people who feel different are "psychotic", "moronic" and just plain "stupid" (all names I've been called for suggesting the Swedish model was the best).
In response to hysterical comments in my local newspaper under an article detailing the results of a poll on children returning to school I wrote the following, after becoming frustrated at fellow reader's inability or unwillingness to engage in reasoned argument. I know it's silly and simplistic but it illustrates my views on what we are doing and how I think this will end up:
"Imagine if zebras reacted to slightly different new crocodiles as Adver readers do to this virus. 68% of the zebra would say "we're not crossing that river, no, no, no, there are crocodiles in it." A mere 10% would be arguing "but fellow equines, we have to cross the river, we NEED to get to that grazing pasture" to which the 68% would say "are you crazy?! Crocodiles, croc-o-diles! What is it you don't understand?! Lives before grass. We'll wait for the crocodiles to disappear or we'll build a bridge." The argument "but they haven't disappeared in the past and we've never made a bridge before, isn't it careless to imagine we will?" is met with more repetitions of "lives before grass" and angry accusations of selfishness. After an agonizingly long period of waiting, the penny finally drops and wordlessly the whole herd, now sick and emaciated, enter the water. The vast majority of zebras survive to get to the other side and, when they are eating the now rather withered grass, one forlorn looking 68% zebra turns to its neighbour and whispers gingerly "but it was the correct decision to wait for the bridge", to which the neighbour rolls his eyes and snorts out a loud "tsch!""
@@charlesbadoola535 Now *that* has to be the best reply I have seen in a long time! All I can say that is....quite. Thank-you for your kind words, it is the employees I feel sorry for. I paid them as long as possible but they may fair better in seeking new positions in autumn than if one keeps them on into next year - a business just cannot go on like that. If you had said a British government would take the action it has and would close my business (and thousands of others) through direct authoritarian action, a doctor would be required. I struggle to recognise this country. I don't have any trust of the judiciary, police, government, cultural institutions, national event leaders, defence - nothing. To wake up in such an opposite world to the one I, my father, grandfather grew up in, is intolerable. Britain....is burning.
Sweden be glad you did not compromise with other countries!
All sane and reasonable people are grateful for Anders Tegnell and his intelligent and rational response. Without him, there would be no evidence to keep our governments from using these lockdowns against our freedoms indefinitely.
Interesting aspect (not gonna dig up the reference now though) is that the Swedish method was part of the general pandemic preparedness for the EU. All EU countries would have taken this path, but in other countries the issue got "hijacked" by politicians in the early days.
stream2watch It is the fear of losing power. If you do not take action in time of a crisis, you could be considered weak and a bad leader. Either that or you can just lie and pretend that the crisis is just a lie created to hurt you, an exaggeration or that it doesn’t affect this particular nation. The Swedish governing model is however a bit different and the government put a lot of trust in the agencies, not interfering to much politically. So in Sweden, the politicians actually listen to the public health agency and their officials without panicking. Interesting in this case is that in the different political parties were quite unanimous in supporting the pandemic strategy suggested, even if they were ideologically very far apart.
Is it not a tad early to declare victory. Anders said himself that he would know in a year whether the approach was successful
Glad?
There a large chunk of Swedes that are pissed of that we killed 6000 people, got worse economy than out nordic neighbours, and mostly because that out prime minister is a fucking coward that hides behind Tegnell. We know that he fucked up the immigration in Sweden, but the pandemic too? There's zero transparency in the reports that comes, and all the numbers magically dropped the same time the other countries locked us out this summer, and now we have serious problems with the testkits, a huge cue line for those that wants to test themselves, and some regions aren't testing people under 16 years old, and people without symtoms are not allowed to be tested.
Tegnell has been wrong about everything from the very start and he's still hailed for some reasons by people? This is the most surrealistic thing that has ever happened in my life to be honest. It was like when people cheered Hitler on while he gassed all the Jews. People are wondering how this insane madness can continue. Tegnell was proven wrong and now the MSM tries everything in their might to make it look like he was right. In June Sweden had 7% immunity with antibodies, and people really think that we are close to herd immunity?
Just OMG.
Whatever you think of their path, one thing I can say for certain:
This man has been interviewed by Andrew Neil. And many more journalists from foreign media.
Whitty and Vallance would never do that.
The UK government would absolutely NEVER countenance that
Amazing interview! Not one bit of bluster or bullshit. Straightforward answers, no defections and if he didn't know the answer he said so. Very refreshing!
You’re very lucky to have someone so confidence inspiring at times like these.
So you prefer him to Matt Hancock? :) Good grief, what a hole we are in in the UK!
Sweden’s approach is working for Sweden. I think lockdowns for the most part are not as effective as one might expect and the health cost is mostly ignored. The cost vs. benefit analysis was lacking. I also like that Sweden trusted their people.
In what way is it working?
We have under 10% immunity in all of Sweden, immunity doesn't last forever, 6000 dead people with a large dark number. The economy was worse of all the Nordic countries and now people are saying it is working when the Swedish citizens are treated like garbage at the moment?
And lol at Tegnell answering questions, the whole Swedish MSM didn't ask him any serious questions at all, with the expedition of one german guy, but he got banned because of that.
@@mistwalker1985 Just being curious, in what way are swedish citizens threated as garbage?
Oh my goodness are these men addressing the facts without swinging to extremes and not mentioning conspiracy theories or being totally sycophantic about the NHS or without being defensive or rude ?
What is going on ?
Why can't have a calm realist like him guiding policy on this bugspread in Britain? Good man.
Because you have a system run by people that are prone to make decisions based on popular belief.
Sweden has a system where politicians have little to no authority over this kinds of matters.
Your scientists would have done similar things to what "Folkhälsomyndigheten" (Public Health Agency) did, had they been in charge.
There are few countries where the government agencies has this degree of self govern.
In Sweden the politicians sets the "frame" or goal and the professionals decides on how to reach the political goal. Generally speaking.
However, any measure that needs a change in law has to go back to the politicians. In its core, the Public Health Agency is giving "advice" (there is no punishment for not following them) for the most part and Swedes follow them.
Anywho... The reason is simply that politicians run this kind of matters in your country. Scientists don't, they just advice the politicians.
The reason Sweden is doing well is because they have this guy. Level headed even in a crisis. Lots of leaders used to be like this-not any more.
Also no politics that's try to take over, if the right-wing parti Sverigedemokraterna would have in the goverment we probobly also would have been in lockdown even if it's agains the Swedish law.
We need a Tegnell in UK.
Carl Heneghan does a good job in my opinion
@@lisahinebeyourbest he is not involved in gov response.
@James Richards Half right, it's about constitution. Politician's simply don't have the same amount of power in Sweden when it comes to health issues like this.
We have such people in the UK, but no platform will give them any air time. Mr Tegnell was excellent as was Andrew Neil.
@@lisahinebeyourbest I agree . We need local and national forums to be established so that every aspect of this crisis and the farcical response to it, can be discussed.
"Why didn't you panic?" because Imperial College has a long history of being wildly and completely wrong.
Thank you for the re-take!
Did they already do an interview?
He was on at the beginning of the Week in 60minutes , but Tegnell's connection was poor as he was on a train (it was actually amazing to see him without a mask and other people milling around the train) and the interview was aborted during the stream
What a breath of fresh air when we have been stifled with BS. When Anders Tegnell guesses, he says it's a guess, when he doesn't know, he says he doesn't know. Meanwhile we are led by hysterical fools and their 'computer models'. Thank you as well Andrew Neill for a great interview.
It is much too early to judge. Tegnell said it himself: 'Judge me in a year.'
@@therealrussellsmyth Yes, judge in a year or so but we can learn things in the meantime and change our responses. Twelve months is a long time and the UK government can easily blow many more hundreds of billions of pounds and enact even more useless repressive measures if it continues making huge mistakes.
I disagree that the Swedish response was "a massive gamble". I think the Swedes took the sensible bet from the outset and that lockdown was the longshot with terrible odds and horrible costs that were simple to predict. Your postulation is incorrect and cannot be applied to Sweden - many people think that we had no idea what covid-19 was but that's not true, there were many experts stating that this is a novel coronavirus and that evidence from China suggests that it is behaving like a normal coronavirus but with a mortality rate that may be a little higher - see Prof Bhakdi from Mainz, to give but one example. Sweden's strategy was science-led. You wouldn't know that from the main news channels though, their performance during this whole crisis has been abysmal.
@@therealrussellsmyth Quit your fearmongering you idiot and do your research better. The cases of longterm damage are so few they are anecdotal at best. Kind of like fatality in children under 10 bc of covid.
@Henry F Wagons
Sweden covid deaths estimation if not locked down = 85,000 deaths
Sweden whole of 2020 actual, 8-9000 deaths.
Proof that Neil Ferguson is an idiot and was wrong.
Hmm, herd immunity maybe? cases dont really matter as mostly asymotomatic. The figures we want are hospitilisations & daaths. As the cases are going up the deaths getting fewer. Suggests we have herd immunity. Wish our medics & politicians used commonsense.
They do not want herd immunity.They want to drag out the virus with lockdowns until there is a vaccine and "health passport."
Good case to say looks as though it is. But reputations are at stake and any admissions now will be like pulling teeth without medication. Great show, this is much better format. Glad you have not gone away.
Quite likely, enjoying the power these restrictions give them whilst making many afraid to go out. Who in their right mind would take a vaccine thats unproven & rushed through? Rather have an accurate antibody test. If have antibodies a vaccine is not needed! But oh dear, do we have an accurate antibody test? No! Well how can we know any vaccine works? Catch 22.
They think we're stupid and don't notice. The media just loves disaster and fear, 24x7 news media needs headlines!!!!
2trichoptera ; Who needs a vaccine if nobody’s dying?
I love the bragging about Swedish wife at the end!
Haha, who wouldn't brag about that:)
I think a thing that is missed in this interview, or I missed it, is what we have done here in Sweden instead of locking down society we put a lot of responsibility on the individual. Maintain social distancing, don't crowd up too much and so on and I think that has worked very well and is very much in place. We for the most part still act very much as the virus is lurking in the corner.
I think in the nations that locked down their societies when they start opening up again the ppl will kind of act as if the dangers is over.
Thank Gawd for this re upload. The train interview was unwatchable and Andrew was right to re-take it as I think we all needed to hear this to shed some light on Sweden's approach.
HI, Tegnell is downplaying the Swedish method but it would appear that Sweden along with many other countries have proven that a light touch in the case of the Coronavirus pandemic can work. Well done for not going with the Ferguson inspired herd ! Bit of a play with a word there.
An excellent interview with a very interesting interviewee
He did not criticise any other course of action but was just there to tell it like is was for his country.
Just wish we had him in sage instead of others!
I hate this government for doing this. The reason for the first lock down was to “protect the nhs” like some sacred cow! The nhs has had 6months to build up PPe, isolation wards and itu beds. What’s going to be the government’s excuse this time
It was clear pretty quickly during the lockdown that the NHS wasn't going to be oversubscribed. It's not been about protecting the NHS for many, many months-and they've never explained the rationale since.
The same the question is what we going to do about.. in the farm one sheep says to the other
Hundreds of thousands of jobs in the private and third sector have been sacrificed on the altar of the NHS sacred cow, and tens thousands of lives because the NHS stopped treating other illnesses and sent Covid-19 patients back into residential care.
The public sector has acted only to protect itself. The scandal of so-called public servants being on full pay to do nothing throughout the lockdown and afterwards not returning to work is outrageous, and should be investigated.
We should have educated the nation on how to limit the spread, let the epidemic take its course, treated those who became sick, and allowed those who would die the dignity of passing away in their own homes. The government's actions removed any sense of personal responsibility for controlling the spread this disease.
For example, in private care homes, management was formerly responsible for controlling infectious disease, including by barrier nursing or quarantining incoming residents. When the government undertook to supply PPE, it effectively took on any blame for managers who'd failed in their duty of care - and in future care homes will be given that PPE by the government. No other part of the private sector is absolved of its health and safety responsibilities.
Lockdown has left the population with insufficient herd immunity, so Covid-19 will keep coming back. And because nobody has had to face up to consequences of their own role in the spread of the disease, uptake of any vaccine will be lowered and Covid-19 will be endemic for the foreseeable future.
@@lindsayheyes925 Well said.
Thank you for correcting that attempt at an interview on a train over the internet yesterday.
Brilliant ,So unusual to get the truth from a interview
On the positive side nobody in the uk has died of old age since March
Christ on a bike! You're actually addressing the Sweden issue! Finally!!
Bring this man over to Britain. The only man with sense
these "cases" only refer to testing positive, not sickness
Mr Tegnell seems to be very ''diplomatic'' in his viewing of UK's response Coronavirus...I got a slightly different impression in his conversations on UnHerd and Ivor Cummins..(search RUclips]. Also see his many other talks by searching his name on RUclips...Illuminating! P.S. Thanks Mr Neil, keep 'em coming...
Not watched it, but liked it already!
Excellent Andrew Neil and the Spectator!
Superb interview, very informative and ABBA for the win :)
Tegnell is a fucking boss. Didn't cave despite the world throwing shit at him for months straight. Reaps the rewards in the end. A true public servant and scientist.
As heartless as it sounds, I’d rather have had an awful spike in April then returned to normal life afterwards instead of this protracted panic-ridden, media-fueled foolishness that is making life unbearable for the 99.7% of us that survived.
That's not heartless in my view, it's rational and it's the view governments should have taken. Of course, you would try to minimise deaths during the spike by sheltering the vulnerable as efficiently as possible. Politically difficult perhaps but in a mature democracy quite possible if you calmly but authoritatively explain your actions to the populace, i.e. what Sweden did. Rushing off into lockdown was a huge risk leaping into the unknown, setting off an almost inevitable destructive course of events from which it will prove difficult to escape. The evidence of this is becoming ever more clear with each day that passes.
This is not hindsight either, this was known by many people right at the start of all this.
I think the lockdown for 3 weeks was understandable as things were getting bad in some areas and we did not know the future trajectory of the disease. By the end of April we could see the death profile and we could have relaxed it then in my opinion BUT with educating the public about vitamin D, C, Zinc and over the counter zinc ionophores like quercetin. So even without all the shenanigans around Hydroxychloroquine, vulnerable people would have had good mitigation available.
Now we really know that the HCQ studies were poor or fraudulent (you decide) and it is effective when used properly and early with zinc and antibiotics. The frontline doctors in USA have highlighted this as has Dr Zelenko.
Even a bit further down the track it looks like Dr Borody of Australia has good results treating people early with Ivermectin, Zinc and Doxycycline. Again we are not talking about intensive care cases, the idea is to stop it getting that far.
So now I think we really can relax things, absent medical/media/political "goings on". It is a pity we are now moving into Autumn and the picture may well deteriorate for that reason.
No reason whatsoever for full lockdowns, mask mandates etc in my view. We can see they do not work. Medium term use of them is probably going to kill more than covid and we will be in an economic super depression.
PS you are not heartless, most are trying to think of the best way, but for sure we have some bad actors out there without droning on more than I have!
@@roadrunner1337 I think any lockdowns are wrong for such a relatively mild virus but certainly the initial lockdown should not have been extended beyond the original conclusion date. The express purpose of the lockdown had been fulfilled once SARS-CoV2 hospitalisation numbers had gone down - even if it had very little or even nothing at all to do with the lockdown - and the health services were better prepared. We should have opened up again immediately whilst maintaining social distancing and accepted a rise in infection rates. What our government has done is like someone putting off a necessary visit to the dentist, it's not wise, when something unpleasant cannot be avoided it's best to get on with it as soon as possible, running and hiding doesn't solve the problem, it actually makes it worse.
I don't agree with masks either but if that is what it takes to get back to a functioning society then I'll wear one, come to that I'll wear a tutu if that will encourage people to come out of their houses.
A needed retake, the train interview was disappointing.
Agreed, and a huge thanks to Anders and Andrew giving it another go.
Most people in their right mind would gnaw their arm off before an interview with Myr Neil.
I thought it was revealing enough in the short time, bar the technical problems, but glad they expanded it.
Would anyone have a problem with the government coming out and saying something like - Look, we're just going to crack on through this now, we can't run & hide forever. Everything is open for business, it's up to you the individual to decide how to live your life, the responsibility is yours. Just use a bit of common sense & be respectful to others please.
But you know that's now what the swedes was told right? If you think that you should read up :)
@Birgitta Nilsson what are you taking about? Which laws? You're making stuff up.
If the UK decided to open up, it can. It's a choice. Law has nothing to do with it.
Birgitta Nilsson ......please explain the flaw in the reasoning. I can’t imagine why anyone would think that hiding from the virus would make it go away. Social restrictions delay but do not prevent infections or deaths. The virus stops spreading and goes away when enough people in the community have had it and become immune end of story. Restrictions simply slow down the process but produce the same result. How is that not logical? As witnessed in many countries when restrictions are lifted the infection rate increases again. Why does it make sense to keep doing it?
Please.. Yes..
The British people only need someone to be straight with them....
Only problem is this never had anything to do with a virus in the first place.
I'm a recovering alcoholic,compulsive gambler,who was near the bottom of the class in a secondary school and even I know its the deaths statistics that count which are falling
The rise in numbers OF INFECTIONS is BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE BEING TESTED FOR IT ,
They need to get someone who knows about figures and how to obtain them not a load of loose cannons who think they know it all
Excellent questions and discreet answers on the relation to UK handling of the virus. As Mr Khan intimates below, would this happen on the BBC?
The very short answer is no. The slightly longer answer - never in a million years.
Another great interview. Looking forward to more.
Excellent, keep up the good work.
Makes a change to hear Neil conduct a good interview; allowing interviewee to answer and not his usual bombastic style. Tegnell comes across very well.
Very informative. Thank you for a classic intelligent interview with straightforward questioning. You covered all the angles.
"Rubbish in rubbish out" whole truth about models
Who knew Swedes could play such important in our lives; our only glimpse of hope and sanity!
Why so many people arguing about Swedish system how to handle on covid 19. The best think is to save your own energy and focus for your own life. Do not bother about Sweden. I am Swedish, I live in Stockholm and I am very happy by governments decisions not to impose quarantine. Well done Anders Tegnell.
Well done Sweden. Mycket stolt, ja?
Sweden, no lock down, 10mn population, 6k dead.
Taiwan, no lock down, 20mn population, 7 dead.
From one journalist to another: Thank you Andrew for a brilliant interview!
I never realised there where so many bookcases in the world .....
I'm convinced there's a company that will, for the appropriate fee, deliver any size bookcase you want, stuffed with serious looking books, minutes before your interview begins, and take it away again as soon as it's over. And if there isn't such a company, perhaps there should be.
Independent that's a bit harsh , maybe you need to get a sense of humour !
It's cgi...
Every 16 Yr old : A book? What like RUclips you mean?
@Independent It was a joke.
This guy deserves the Nobel Prize 2020
Andrew Neil is the only UK political interviewer who does not make me want to chuck a brick through the screen.
Haha we have those in Sweden too. And Anders Tegnell have meet them everyday for month now. My husband feels like you. He thinks journalists crew are just the scrap of the earth right now
Did less people die in Sweden? - was no lock down better than lock down?
On 14. september 2020 there were 67104 deaths registered in Sweden. The last month since 14. august 4214 died. For a rough estimate og the total number og deaths in 2020 in Sweden the conservative limit might be set as as average number og deaths for the rest of 2020 is similar to the first months. The low limit might be the assumption that the rest of the year has a similar death rate as last mont.
This gives an estimate of deaths between 81853 and 94735.
For the last ten years the number have varied between 89000 and 92000.
It seems probable that Sweden will not have a excessive morality rate in 2020 even though they did not lock down or compromise civil freedom in harsh ways.
Is this correct? Why do other countries introduce lock down or compromise civil freedom in harsh ways?
Reference: www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
Because they have NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING and want to be seen to be doing something that looks like dealing with the problem.
The UK government are in some kind of who-cares-the-most political beauty contest.
Birgitta Nilsson i just used these numbers with actual deaths in Sweden, and calculated. To me you seem to arrive at about normal numbers this year. www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
I live in Norway, we have not been through the pandemic yet, and I don’t think it is possible to compare at present. Maybe the 2020 through 2021 can be compared as a whole when 2021 is over.
Birgitta Nilsson ; I heard you had an undermortality the previous winter... low number of deaths from influenza.
So there were many more frail, old susceptible people in Sweden who then fell to Covid.
Your neighbours had quite bad flu seasons last winter, so had less numerous susceptible population.
Kevin Hicks virtue signaling contest, the winner by far is Jacinta Arden
The difference is so clear. They learnt. We did and still have not learnt! Disgraceful!
Imperial college.These types of rediculous situations have been frequent over the past 30 years.this i feel coincides with a lack of political engagement from the general public.we must become more engaged if we are to have an accountable parliment.
Thank you for giving Sweden a fair review and for giving others a chance to hear Tegnell himself explain how it really is. Most foreign media outlets still try to paint Sweden as a “crazy experiment” with “a strategy of herd immunity”, which as you now know isn’t at all the case. Thanks for letting facts speak, and for not trying to give us a bad reputation as others do.
Andrew, could you find out if the NHS Covid test identifies all corona viruses or is specific to Covid 19. I recently had what I assumed was a normal cold but work sent me for a test. It came back positive to my surprise. Could it be possible that increase it numbers could be due to increase in colds at this time of year?
Exactly ! There are seven strains of coronavirus. What are they testing for ? They do not reveal the error margin either.
Hey, thats a very valid question
I can't answer your question but I figured I can give you what I know from the lab I work at here in Sweden, it might not be the same but it could very well be, it's not like each country make their own test kits, different labs do choose which type of tests they want to rely on though.
We use separate tests for covid-19 and the other covid. A rapid test(1½h) that looks for covid-19 only, and another going for a mix of viruses including the old covid. There're also tests run on day shift only which I don't have much info on as I don't run them myself, except that the virus asked for is covid-19 only, and I don't remember ever seeing samples where they've asked for a plethora of different types of covid in one go, it's either a covid-19 or virus mix test (mind you, there's also a separate rapid test for influenza/RSV). If you went for a cov19 test, then that should be what they checked for, unless they do things super different, which wouldn't make sense to me xD.
@MrJuggernaute You do realize that virus in general are small pieces of genetic mass themselves (RNA/DNA). And that it's a mere matter of looking for the right sequence, using PCR to amplify what you're looking for, if it's there, to an amount that makes it easier to spot. As far as I've heard, the test was originally a test for finding the old corona virus that was modified to look for the sequence that matches the new corona virus, the correct sequence obtained from the chinese, as for how they obtained said sequence, sorry, I haven't looked that deeply into this.
Isn't it refreshing actually hearing common sense honest answers to reasonable questions..........
He's a hero.
I'd move to Sweden if I could. From the once Land of the Free, to the new Land of the Free.
You're always welcome :)
I just watched for the third time a recent Jonathan Sumption interview on LBC (ruclips.net/video/BB_RUgFRVNw/видео.html) and can't stop thinking how everything he says is just normal common sense, it is incredible that what he is saying is a minority view.
Anyone else had very difficult arguments with friends and family about all this? I have. One good friend who supported lockdowns, more than once he trotted out that ridiculously simplistic mantra "lives before the economy", got angry with me and said that what I was saying - that Sweden has the best strategy - was implying that he was stupid. I said I didn't think that, I said that he is just grossly mistaken and is not looking at the data clearly and thinking about the whole picture. Actually, I did think he was a bit stupid and I still do.
That is the reaction I get virtually every time I attempt to have a reasonable discussion. Most folk it appears are incapable of engaging in a robust, adult conversation that involves some small difference of opinion without getting all overly emotional, defensive and bent out of shape.
It's kind of sad really. If it isn't meaningless, banal, everyday vacuous chat, or constant, gleeful nodding in keen agreement, many within five minutes will have a rubber lip and behave like a little girl.
It isn't just you Charles.
All the time. All bar one family member...who is a demographer and immediately berated Imperial's work. I have to temper my discussions according to my audience very carefully. I have noticed, however, that everyone who has had to work throughout the summer, is highly likely to be scathing of the lockdown. I also notice that the overwhelming majority of those who have had to work are the lowest paid in society.
Anyone that is interested in immunological science in relation to the SARS- COV-2 pandemic, here is a very basic virology overview, that for some reason is not being discuses by the scientific community.
Because we have all been exposed to several different Corona viruses from past pandemics and they all share similar RNA code and borrowed and hijacked micro-molecular machinery, there is a partial T-Cell immunity memorization response happening in every new infection with SARS-COV-2 even though it is considered a novel virus. This is precisely why in the vast majority of the infections the symptoms are very weak or completely benign. (MPIE) mass population immunization by exposure (herd immunity) is the only way this type of virus outbreak ever comes to an end, through virulence dilution by infection saturation throughout the healthy population. This is nothing new however and is precisely how all past corona outbreaks have ever ended.
History dictates that a vaccine will not be effective for SARS-COV-2, as they have never been effective for any Cor/viruses, (and very poor flu virus response also) due to the rapid antigenic shift (mutating) properties of the spike or surface proteins within the viral RNA polymerase caused by the hijacked malfunctioning Ribosome's replication system inside the cells nucleus. By the time a vaccine is developed and tested the viral RNA genomic blueprint will have altered enough to make the vaccines effectiveness nullified and useless and round it goes with microbiologists/chemists, always playing a dog chasing its tail catch up game with a perpetually error prone and weakening virus.
The risk and damage with SARS-COV-2 by all the scientific evidence, data and math is several magnitudes less than what is being discussed by the scientific community. At the end of Dr. David Katz podcast he cites in detail the most comprehensive detailed scientifically data based summery to date with sources and hyperlinks to the references of all the actual data and numerical statistical math, verifying this immunological and mathematical fact and reality, that the damage from SARS-COV-2 is massively less than previously understood and currently being reported.
It is long overdue for the world leaders to acknowledge this, instead of the constant round and round cycle from a small community of career infectious disease experts, politicians and the media trying desperately to remain relevant and prove to the world that they were right! ruclips.net/video/q6LB2Rp44zA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/urCPH8W2M4Y/видео.html/news/7085775/coronavirus-false-hope/
I presume your friend who's the most strident for lockdowns works in the public sector and his job has not been axed or is under threat?
What a dignified, intelligent and thoughtful man - not to mention courageous! What a shame the British government failed to interrogate Ferguson's flawed model as he did.
I urge all you Dutch, French, British, Spanish, German, Portuguese and Italians to do something crazy. Move to Sweden. We are nice people. The nature is vast. Five weeks payed vacation by law, 18 month maternity leave. Cheep land up north.
We need nurses, doctors, teachers, police officers, Renault mechanics.
Ok it can be cold. But you will have a good life.
Is there much truth in people saying that swedes are being microchipped ? Thanks in advance
@@tonybonestheproducer i'm swedish and i just read this for the first time today in another comment. i hadn't heard of this before. i searched for it and it turns out there are articles about a bunch of people (a few thousands) voluntarily inserting microchips in their hands. these microchips are a product created by a company called Biohax International and they can be used to open the door at the gym, make payments and some other features. swedes has a high trust in technology and the ones putting chips in their hands are just early adopters wanting to have the latest tech stuff. in other words: no, we are not getting microchipped! :)
@@qewi1 Lool good to know 🙏🏻
An expert who demonstrates humility and concern for humane matters! In stark contrast of course with that Nobel prize winning epidemiologist, Hancock.
Not TOOOO hard to work out where Andrew stands on the UK approach. I wish Anders had been a tad less...diplomatic about us.
What good would that do?
There is not a journalist on the BBC who is fit to be mentioned in the same sentence at the probing, intelligent, Andrew Neil - The BBC are so dumbed down.. It is wonderful to hear proper questioning - Well done Andrew Neil and Dr Tegnell
I wondered when he was going to fall in line and sit in front of a bookcase.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Excellent episode 3, extremely informative & thanks for re-interviewing the Swedish expert again 👍 Adrian/Fife.
Congratulations to Mr Anders Tegnell and the people of Sweden 👏👏👏
This great man is so humble compared with our arrogant peacock tyrant Matt Hancock.
Looking grand Andrew, could you cough up for a better audio setup? its not terrible its just not as good as it should be. This format suits you to the ground and lets hope its as successful as your show
And we're getting increased cases, even while under a lockdown.
Why the BBC sidelined Andrew Neil I don't know but this interview shows what they are missing. A genuine "challenging" interviewer who knows their stuff and irrespective of their own views holds the opposite of the interviewee. Hope to see him back on TV soon.
Tegnell is very cautious in what he says, but I bet that he is secretly much more optimistic for Sweden and damning of UK's approach!
He is an infectious disease physician and epidemiologist so in the beginning his limited media training shined through, he spoke more openly what he thought about things but media (especially international media) started taking things out of context and go to neighboring countries and use out of context Tegnell quotes in order to start controversy between countries so he sort of adapted and became more politically correct. It's a shame how things have become so politicized. We should be having open discussions and learning from each other, not treat it like the Olympic games in pandemic responses.
Anyone that is interested in immunological science in relation to the SARS- COV-2 pandemic, here is a very basic virology overview, that for some reason is not being discuses by the scientific community.
Because we have all been exposed to several different Corona viruses from past pandemics and they all share similar RNA code and borrowed and hijacked micro-molecular machinery, there is a partial T-Cell immunity memorization response happening in every new infection with SARS-COV-2 even though it is considered a novel virus. This is precisely why in the vast majority of the infections the symptoms are very weak or completely benign. (MPIE) mass population immunization by exposure (herd immunity) is the only way this type of virus outbreak ever comes to an end, through virulence dilution by infection saturation throughout the healthy population. This is nothing new however and is precisely how all past corona outbreaks have ever ended.
History dictates that a vaccine will not be effective for SARS-COV-2, as they have never been effective for any Cor/viruses, (and very poor flu virus response also) due to the rapid antigenic shift (mutating) properties of the spike or surface proteins within the viral RNA polymerase caused by the hijacked malfunctioning Ribosome's replication system inside the cells nucleus. By the time a vaccine is developed and tested the viral RNA genomic blueprint will have altered enough to make the vaccines effectiveness nullified and useless and round it goes with microbiologists/chemists, always playing a dog chasing its tail catch up game with a perpetually error prone and weakening virus.
The risk and damage with SARS-COV-2 by all the scientific evidence, data and math is several magnitudes less than what is being discussed by the scientific community. At the end of Dr. David Katz podcast he cites in detail the most comprehensive detailed scientifically data based summery to date with sources and hyperlinks to the references of all the actual data and numerical statistical math, verifying this immunological and mathematical fact and reality, that the damage from SARS-COV-2 is massively less than previously understood and currently being reported.
It is long overdue for the world leaders to acknowledge this, instead of the constant round and round cycle from a small community of career infectious disease experts, politicians and the media trying desperately to remain relevant and prove to the world that they were right! ruclips.net/video/q6LB2Rp44zA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/urCPH8W2M4Y/видео.html globalnews.ca/news/7085775/coronavirus-vaccine-false-hope/
A decent balanced interview. Thank you.
I might catch the next dingy to Sweden
Lol
#staywarm
You row, ill steer mate:)
I like the fact that he is open about what they do not know yet. Refreshing after all the know-it-alls here in Oz.