As a gay christian, I have never understood, but have definitely felt the obsession in the church with heterosexual marriage and having children. I was told the devil lied to me to make me believe I couldn’t have a “normal” relationship. I think it was pressuring me to get married to a woman. I’m glad I never believed that. I can’t imagine ruining someone else’s life.
I was so pleased to see an English-speaker FINALLY state (at c.18:30 mins) that Christianity had eradicated slavery within its own territories, and that the transatlantic slave trade was a step backward in Christianity. Well, FINALLY! And lets not forget all the other far bigger slave trades! At 41:32, Dr McLaughlin talks about: "The people who have suffered the most from white Christian sin the most...." I note she is careful to avoid Eastern and Central Europeans, who have experienced Western European racism for a millenium and never received a helping hand under Communism, nor has the "white Christian" west repented for its collaboration with Communism. We're waiting.
I want to understand why my LGBTQ family is angry and bitter at the “Christian” members and refuse to hold space with them but expect the “Christian” members are to be ONLY FORGIVING, ACCEPTING AND EMBRACING OF EVERYTHING the LGBTQ member says, does or lives…?
People, unfortunately, want affirmation and not confrontation. Even if I disagree with a statement, I love learning and seeing why someone gets to their position and approach with that open mind. If God is omniscient it means He knows all things and in order to understand theology and God you must approach with an open mind.
1) Well, going to a social group is beneficial to your health. Whether or not that group is christian isn't so important. 2) Christianity isn't simply one religion. It's a number of religions. White evangelical Christianity is a VERY different religion than Latin American Catholicism. 3) You can't argue from what you can't show to be true. Unless you can show that your god exists, your god's existence can't be used as an argument for anything. If you can use as an argument that which you can't show to be true, then anyone can just make up whatever they want. At that point, there is nothing but madness. 4) There is nothing in the Bible where Jesus says slavery is wrong. Funny isn't that? 5) Atheism isn't a moral abyss. Take a look at many of the most atheistic countries out there. Take a look at Denmark, Norway, Sweeden. I'm sorry, but to refer to atheism as some moral abyss is just not accurate. Just because one says that morality isn't objective doesn't mean that one doesn't care about morality. 6) So... since you believe in deep concern for people of the same gender as you that means you can legally make gay people second class citizens? This doesn't seem like a great argument. 7) Saying that people should have an equal right to marry isn't purity culture. Sorry.
Ummm Candace Owens job is about politics, thanks for letting us know Preston that you're not a fan because she is too political! Thats like someone saying they dont like Preston Sprinkle because he is too theological...
Great discussion. What about the Christian argument for a pro choice stance? Rebecca mentioned the secular argument, but is there a plausible Christian argument? A Christian, of course, would say taking a life is absolutely wrong and against Christian teaching But what about this view: God Himself values the ability of every human to choose Him or not, or to choose His will or not. It's the "He is a gentleman" argument or "I stand at the door and knock" argument. And Christ says on the cross, "Forgive them, they don't know what they are doing." They are taking a life, albeit the life of God come to earth. Here is the point: As a Jesus-follower, you can give people the choice, even though it will be devastating to the unborn and the mother, but just like Jesus forgave and ministered to those who did not choose Him (especially on the cross or in John by the Sea of Galilee when many walked away after the "eat my flesh" comment), the Christian can be for someone's right to choose but must also be there in love, serving that person regardless of what choice they make (but perhaps especially when they choose to abort). I am not certain it is a strong argument. You'll have to decide, but it is a plausible argument for choice from a Christian perspective.
As a gay christian, I have never understood, but have definitely felt the obsession in the church with heterosexual marriage and having children. I was told the devil lied to me to make me believe I couldn’t have a “normal” relationship. I think it was pressuring me to get married to a woman. I’m glad I never believed that. I can’t imagine ruining someone else’s life.
It’s ok to be attracted to the opposite sex, but it’s sinful to act on those attractions.
I was so pleased to see an English-speaker FINALLY state (at c.18:30 mins) that Christianity had eradicated slavery within its own territories, and that the transatlantic slave trade was a step backward in Christianity. Well, FINALLY! And lets not forget all the other far bigger slave trades!
At 41:32, Dr McLaughlin talks about: "The people who have suffered the most from white Christian sin the most...." I note she is careful to avoid Eastern and Central Europeans, who have experienced Western European racism for a millenium and never received a helping hand under Communism, nor has the "white Christian" west repented for its collaboration with Communism.
We're waiting.
That was truly an amazing conversation.
I want to understand why my LGBTQ family is angry and bitter at the “Christian” members and refuse to hold space with them but expect the “Christian” members are to be ONLY FORGIVING, ACCEPTING AND EMBRACING OF EVERYTHING the LGBTQ member says, does or lives…?
People, unfortunately, want affirmation and not confrontation. Even if I disagree with a statement, I love learning and seeing why someone gets to their position and approach with that open mind.
If God is omniscient it means He knows all things and in order to understand theology and God you must approach with an open mind.
The first commandment should be against extortion for any moral instruction. Its absence makes all other commandments enforcements to extortion.
I’m a fellow Oklahoman...”real American.” 👏🏼
Oklahoman here as well
Great discussion, thank you and God bless you both.
Bought two copies of The Secular Creed after listening to this!
Would you be able to track down and name the study you read on the happiness of LGBT people? Sounds like an interesting resource.
1) Well, going to a social group is beneficial to your health. Whether or not that group is christian isn't so important.
2) Christianity isn't simply one religion. It's a number of religions. White evangelical Christianity is a VERY different religion than Latin American Catholicism.
3) You can't argue from what you can't show to be true. Unless you can show that your god exists, your god's existence can't be used as an argument for anything. If you can use as an argument that which you can't show to be true, then anyone can just make up whatever they want. At that point, there is nothing but madness.
4) There is nothing in the Bible where Jesus says slavery is wrong. Funny isn't that?
5) Atheism isn't a moral abyss. Take a look at many of the most atheistic countries out there. Take a look at Denmark, Norway, Sweeden. I'm sorry, but to refer to atheism as some moral abyss is just not accurate. Just because one says that morality isn't objective doesn't mean that one doesn't care about morality.
6) So... since you believe in deep concern for people of the same gender as you that means you can legally make gay people second class citizens? This doesn't seem like a great argument.
7) Saying that people should have an equal right to marry isn't purity culture. Sorry.
Ummm Candace Owens job is about politics, thanks for letting us know Preston that you're not a fan because she is too political!
Thats like someone saying they dont like Preston Sprinkle because he is too theological...
Great discussion. What about the Christian argument for a pro choice stance? Rebecca mentioned the secular argument, but is there a plausible Christian argument? A Christian, of course, would say taking a life is absolutely wrong and against Christian teaching
But what about this view: God Himself values the ability of every human to choose Him or not, or to choose His will or not. It's the "He is a gentleman" argument or "I stand at the door and knock" argument. And Christ says on the cross, "Forgive them, they don't know what they are doing." They are taking a life, albeit the life of God come to earth. Here is the point: As a Jesus-follower, you can give people the choice, even though it will be devastating to the unborn and the mother, but just like Jesus forgave and ministered to those who did not choose Him (especially on the cross or in John by the Sea of Galilee when many walked away after the "eat my flesh" comment), the Christian can be for someone's right to choose but must also be there in love, serving that person regardless of what choice they make (but perhaps especially when they choose to abort). I am not certain it is a strong argument. You'll have to decide, but it is a plausible argument for choice from a Christian perspective.
Isn’t the woman at the well a well agreed upon forgery?
Yahweh predestines the majority of homo sapiens to hell. If true does this fact point to universal human rights?
Rebecca, How is commanded love love?
You can be LGBT and Christian no problem