For everybody asking how they turn without ailerons. Most commercial airlines have spoilers on the wings that also helps in banking the airplane. It is usually not only ailerons. So they controll the airplane in the same way with the yoke/stick. Movements are a little less precise however
Thanks. I was looking for that. Nice it was the second comment so I did not have to look too far. I was thinking like Sioux City, SD, engine thrust, but the spoiler makes more sense. Thanks.
I think this is a good example of CRM but also with the ATC. At times you can hear the workload in the cockpit and ATC would pause and then ask again for essential information that was missing or not read back. At other times the PF and PM take turns contacting ATC but it is seamless to the controllers. Just well done to everyone and a great testament about how much this industry has invested in training, safe processes, to make incidents like this routinely land safely. Just in awe...
You can roll or bank an aircraft using only the rudder. To roll left, push left rudder, which slews the right wing forwards generating more lift due to a slightly higher airflow speed. More lift from the right wing causes it to rise while the opposite happens to the left wing (slower = less lift) and the aircraft rolls to the left. To level up give right rudder until the wings are level. In pilot training, it's known as the 'primary and secondary effect of controls'. Rudder = primary effect is yaw, secondary effect is roll. Ailerons = primary effect is roll, secondary effect is yaw. Ex pilot here. Well done to all involved.
American controllers are obsessed with fuel in pounds, time, etc. and how long it will be until they can come back in, and switching frequencies. American ATC is terrible.
"Let me tell you about growing up middle class. We were so middle class, we drove a station wagon. Did you know they call them 'estate cars' in Great Britain? Well, they do. and we drove a predominantly middle class station Wagon. Even had pop up rear seats. So, my daddy, being middle class, let me drive that wagon to my job at McDonald's and........"
Well done by all by not rushing through a checklist when an immediate return is not required. That was one full plane as it only has 128 seats, so guess flight deck jumpseat and a flight attendance jumpseat full to get to 135.
Watching the trace there turns were very crisp with no obvious overshoot or undershoot as you might expect with less control authority. The pilots did a great job as did ATC and the tower. Sometimes things go bad, but most times these professionals mange to bring it home -- you here about the bad ones but seldom the heroic saves.
@@TheLoneWolfling Well it doesnt really matter to an atc person how much time they have. Once the minimum fuel or emergency has been declared and the reason for the emergency is relayed then the atc person is bound to get the plane on the ground as soon as possible or to assist the pilot in whatever way they need. Time remaining is not a factor. Maybe if there were two fuel emergencies at the same time in the same place. What are the chances of that? Fireball and response required is the reason.
@@Themheals Jul 26th 2012. Four (four!!!) aircraft either ended up landing below minimum fuel or declared a fuel emergency (or both). Due to a line of thunderstorms that resulted in problems at both Madrid and Vadridaa (the shared alternate).
@@Themheals Jul 26th 2012. Four (four!!!) aircraft either ended up landing below minimum fuel or declared a fuel emergency (or both). Due to a line of thunderstorms that resulted in problems at both Madrid and Vadridaa (the shared alternate). "What are the chances of that?" For two planes having an unrelated issue at the same time, pretty low. For multiple planes having chosen the same alternate airport? Much higher. Correlated failure modes...
Alas, you're committing the classic blunder of assuming events are uncorrelated. Fuel emergencies are often due to diversions and/or weather, both of which can easily affect multiple aircraft. For an extreme example of this look at Madrid on July twenty-sixth twenty-twelve.
Stewart has a very long runway and no other air traffic in the area but AA doesn't fly there to reaccomodate pax. I think it might have been a better choice however due ro their issues.
I heard that fuel in hours is for ATC to know how long the aircraft can stay in the air, while in pounds is for firefighters in case something bad happens.
@@dupontjean9263I always thought they had the ability to get a rough calculation based on the aircraft type without having to bug the pilots but I guess I was wrong considering they always ask for it.
@@WilliamOfDetroit07 The ATC are also busy warning other aircraft and getting them out of the way, plus still trying to maintain flights in and out of the airport. This also helps in getting room for the emergency aircraft. I worked at Heathrow London and the airport vehicle I drove had VHF radio for airside use. I was amazed at the amount of work ATC does to clear a path for an emergency landing of a plane already in the landing stack. landing planes being sent North and South to make space and planes queueing for take off being kept clear of taxiways etc. for emergency vehicles.
Crew running checklists, figuring out where to go, planning which runway, setting up maps and navigation, probably advising passengers and we have several controllers badering for fuel on board! Crew did outstanding.
@@ArtStoneUS As a former Air Force pilot myself, I found it potentially annoying and distracting the the crew but they handled it quite well. Don't understand why controllers prefer pounds of fuel vs time remaining.
@@davideberhardt4977Fuel remaining in time is for SAR, weight is for overweight landings and 1st responders on the ground. These things are all required to increase safety. The real issue I saw was the failure of ATC to forward this information to the next controller/sector/facility. The crew should have only been asked these questions one time, but I'll tell you this, it's easy to Monday morning QB. A sector can be 10x busier than what you hear on these tapes. Sometimes you don't get the audio from other aircraft, you don't hear the controller taking landline calls, shout line calls, coordinating with other sectors, coordinating with the tower, Traffic Mamagement Unit, and the supervisor in your ear asking for certain information. I'm sure both ATC and the crew were really busy, overall a great job by everyone. The plane got down safely, that's all that matters in the end. We just keep learning from our mistakes and getting better, as a team, both pilots and controllers.
@@davideberhardt4977 Zero knowlege of planes but isn't the issue possible excessive weight upon landing? Of course if the controllers know fuel consumption of the plane as it was configured for flying at the time, plus the initial load of fuel, they could have calculated the pounds based upon hours left, but if the flight crew already has access to the actual weight, I would think that would be a more accurate number. But again, I know zero about planes and probably showed it with this post.
Saw where one planes ailerons were installed the wrong way. The pilots had to fly for 2 hours completely turning left for right and right for left and ended up surviving.
Air Astana E190 returning to Kazakhstan from Portugal after heavy maint. Just watched a great and very detailed documentary on it a few days ago: ruclips.net/video/5ywaMkMTwWk/видео.html
I have a question, do these flight control incidents seem to be at a higher rate than normal ? If I recall , a recent plane coming into NYC , their computer went down and they diddnt know the status of flaps and gear. The recent announcement of extensive infrastructure hacking in the USA by nation /states suggests hacks of the flight computer systems. I wonder if that's beeing checked. (I don't mean to drone on about it)
Incredible proficiency performance from the aircrew! Congratulations guys!! Can anyone update on this very strange aileron part? What type of aircraft is it?
if my understanding is correct, ailerons are used in low speed flight regime - and spoilers + flaperons are used to augment or supplement - so while losing aileron controls is significant, its not a mayday situation necessarily.
@ghostrider-be9ek The ailerons are used at all speeds. They are mixed with the spoilers to control roll but are controlled by separate computers. No flaperons. Flaperons are trailing edge surfaces that lower symmetrically to increase lift at lower speeds, but can raise independently to aid roll. I would declare an emergency right away for any loss of a primary control surface. The spoilers will still control roll without the ailerons, but they will also induce drag on that wing causing a yaw movement. Small inputs will be fine, it will just feel sluggish. Still, wait until the report comes out to see what happened.
Whenever you have a non normal event in airspace like NY, you should declare a mayday status. Lots of ATC calls, traffic etc and you can miss radio and clearance calls , and then the FAA could violate you.
I am still wondering, if they had issues with the ailerons how could they make a right turn? is it by using more engine power in the left than the right?
If I am ever a passenger and the aircraft loses a primary flight control, I want the pilots to declare emergency right away. Good thing the ATC figured it out and started treating it as an emergency pretty soon.
Left and right ailerons? That would mean the loss of THREE hydraulic systems or loss of....what? Elac 1 AND Elac 2 ???? How would that even be possible?
steer a plane without ailerons, a pilot would primarily use the rudder to control the yaw (turning left or right), while utilizing throttle adjustments to compensate for any resulting changes in altitude or attitude, effectively creating a "slip" to initiate turns; this method is significantly less precise and requires more coordination than using ailerons for rolling maneuvers.
@@GeorgePsaros My boat had twin engines and so for mooring alongside I'd use the outside engine to snug her gently up to the dock. She was rale old and only had a center rudder so steering could be a challenge if I snagged something on a prop.
Only in the U.S.of A! The pilot calls ATC to report a flight control problem, and the first thing ATC does is instruct him to change heading! For the information of ATC, a change of heading requires the use of flight controls - perhaps it would be better to ask if the pilot can accept changes of heading and/or altitude before issuing such instructions in this situation.
Pilots got a light that something is not working. They go thru checklist.they found problem and now must burn fuel or they will be too heavy. Dont want to land with too much fuel,safety issue.
To steer a plane without ailerons, a pilot would primarily use the rudder to control the yaw (turning left or right), while utilizing throttle adjustments to compensate for any resulting changes in altitude or attitude, effectively creating a "slip" to initiate turns; this method is significantly less precise and requires more coordination than using ailerons for rolling maneuvers.
My guess is they lost both aileron computers ( ELACs) somehow. They will still have roll control with the spoilers which are controlled by separate computers, albeit it will be sluggish in roll.
@edwalker2790 correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the spoilers only be extended symetrically? I don't see how that would have any impact on the direction of the flight.
@klausbellroth5451 The spoilers must work symmetrically during landing to "spoil" the aerodynamic airflow over the wings (reducing speed) and to force the aircraft down on main landing gear (increasing brake efficiency). During flight, some of the several panels work together with the ailerons helping the roll movement.
I don’t know why pilots have such a hard time declaring an emergency. The controllers declared a defacto emergency when the asked for fuel and souls. Thank god the controllers were already giving them priority handling. Also I’m a pilot. I would have declared the emergency the minute I recognized I had aileron problems
Don’t depart traffic prior to an emergency aircraft that requested the longest runway you have and priority handling due to lost ailerons ffs. Clear the bloody runway for them when they’re on that 12 mile final
Fuel and souls, then asked again later. They gotta do something about this. Why can acars not transmit this info directly to atc or operations instead of having to ask the pilots for their age and social
That information should have been forwarded to the next controller/ sector/facility. I'm not sure why this wasn't done. The crew should have only been asked one time for this information.
Everyone did a great job. The younger-sounding pilot seemed to be getting task saturated (as evidenced by repeating back extraneous information to ATC), but kept it together nicely. I only question not asking for the trucks to "look the aircraft over" or something similar. There is no harm in an inspection. ARFF can use its thermal camera to confirm there aren't hot spots and visually confirm there isn't a leak. Computer, hydraulic and electrical systems all are involved in controlling the ailerons. A quick inspection on the ground just seems prudent.
_> pilot seemed to be getting task saturated (as evidenced by repeating back extraneous information to ATC)_ Yup, that seems to be a pretty reliable indicator!
I can't imagine the fear passengers went through when they saw they are turning back to New York. I hope there pilot made an announcement that it's just a technical issue
Your thought process is correct for a "land as soon as possible" kind of situation... but this was not that. An onboard fire, for example, would necessitate a landing ASAP. However, in this case the airplane was clearly flyable and controllable and there was nothing dictating an immediate landing. If you're not on fire or under some other extremely time-sensitive scenario, you always want to consider the best option for all involved, and a runway right under you is always AN answer, but is not always the BEST answer. JFK has heavy-duty AA maintenance, customer service and support, other flights to get the passengers on, hotels, rental cars, and all the passengers just came from the NYC area (LGA). SWF has none of that, so dumping everyone off in SWF and stranding the airplane there would be an unnecessary logistical nightmare for the passengers, the crew, the airplane, the maintenance teams, and everyone else involved, especially when flying just a few minutes further in a perfectly flyable airplane would eliminate all that and exponentially increase the resources available for everyone.
Why is it always the same ? The pilot says “we need time to figure things out”. Tower say’s “Take the time you need”. Then the tower never stops asking them questions distracting them. Every single one of these emergencies are the same - the Tower never stops talking and asking the same questions over and over. Maybe that’s the procedure, annoying the hell out of the pilots. Just divert other traffic and STFU until they tell you what’s needed.
As a pilot I can't understand why controllers do not have a standard question for fuel on board. Some want pounds some gallons some time. This wastes time in a cockpit operating on emergency.
Good job by the crew overall, but the stubborn refusal of US crews to use proper terminology like the rest of the world is bizarre. Means they use three times the number of words when brevity is essential.
@@andrewtaylor9610 when you put a man on the moon maybe we'll care, In the meantime, keep living in our shadow. Any real pilot knows pan pan is completely unnecesary, it accomplishes nothing, and is wasted air time.
What happened to disable aileron control....I have never been comfortable with Airbus...I know theyre not falling out of the sky but just have never like the side stick control or the fly by wire set up..central located yokes and fly by cables....lol
It’s a pity PAN PAN PAN isn’t used in the US anymore. It makes clear the priority of the emergency to ATC and reduces the workload on the crew on downstream comms.
You gotta love when ATC is trying to dispatch and be pilots all at the same time , Please stick to the ATC procedures keyboard and mic , let the pilots do their job !!!
@@jonathanparle8429 No arm chair pilots here only real ones. But if you are an ATC you dont have to get your panties in a bunch. Let the pilots decide and make their decisions.
Calm down, this is zero drama, no conspiracy and nothing to report. What exactly do you want the news to be? Airplane broke, but nothing happened because of good training, security protocols and redundant systems?
You don't lie to atc. AA pilots are professional. Don't want to declare an emergency landing if it's not. "Emergency landing" involves more of a landing
Wow. Some "video"... starts out with a page of text to read. Silence. No narrator, not even any sappy royalty-free music. There's too much of this half-assed crap.
The attention to detail and professional manner are to be applauded from both ATC and pilot's bravo
No panic, no egos, worked as a team. Nice job by all.
For everybody asking how they turn without ailerons. Most commercial airlines have spoilers on the wings that also helps in banking the airplane. It is usually not only ailerons. So they controll the airplane in the same way with the yoke/stick. Movements are a little less precise however
Thanks. I was looking for that. Nice it was the second comment so I did not have to look too far. I was thinking like Sioux City, SD, engine thrust, but the spoiler makes more sense. Thanks.
@@davidbeckenbaugh9598 varying thrust is also possible, it's a bit less precise than even spoilers only, those engines do not respond quick..
A good illustration on just how systematically mechanical failures are addressed in aviation.
that last tower controller is so chill he's got ice sickles hanging off his eyebrows.
Icicles
Ice sickles
Bicycles
icicles
I want to ride my ice sickle, I want to ride my iiiiice.
Hats off to those pilots on flight A3187 for handling this situation like bosses. I still to this day cannot fly a 3 channel RC airplane.
I think this is a good example of CRM but also with the ATC. At times you can hear the workload in the cockpit and ATC would pause and then ask again for essential information that was missing or not read back. At other times the PF and PM take turns contacting ATC but it is seamless to the controllers. Just well done to everyone and a great testament about how much this industry has invested in training, safe processes, to make incidents like this routinely land safely. Just in awe...
You can roll or bank an aircraft using only the rudder. To roll left, push left rudder, which slews the right wing forwards generating more lift due to a slightly higher airflow speed. More lift from the right wing causes it to rise while the opposite happens to the left wing (slower = less lift) and the aircraft rolls to the left. To level up give right rudder until the wings are level. In pilot training, it's known as the 'primary and secondary effect of controls'.
Rudder = primary effect is yaw, secondary effect is roll.
Ailerons = primary effect is roll, secondary effect is yaw.
Ex pilot here. Well done to all involved.
Thank you 👍
I was just thinking if the plane began to roll would the pilots have a way to counter-act it. You just answered that question, thank you.
Good thing they didn’t have to deal with any substantial cross-wind during the landing.
A surprising amount of aircraft design goes into ensuring this is the case...
While true, the main "backup" for ailerons would be roll spoilers on an A320.
Hero's all around. Professional. Calm and all got the job done.
Great job ATC, Firetrucks and the Crew.
The same atc that asked for fuel onboard like three times
Awesome channel. So cool to watch and listen.
ATC and pilots working perfectly together ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉🎉
That was really good first ATC turns to 360 away from city plus KSWF has a long runway
"Whenever you can please give me the fuel in kilograms and show your work."
I don’t show my work. I just figured it out in my brain.
😂
American controllers are obsessed with fuel in pounds, time, etc. and how long it will be until they can come back in, and switching frequencies. American ATC is terrible.
"Let me tell you about growing up middle class. We were so middle class, we drove a station wagon. Did you know they call them 'estate cars' in Great Britain? Well, they do. and we drove a predominantly middle class station Wagon. Even had pop up rear seats. So, my daddy, being middle class, let me drive that wagon to my job at McDonald's and........"
Well done by all by not rushing through a checklist when an immediate return is not required. That was one full plane as it only has 128 seats, so guess flight deck jumpseat and a flight attendance jumpseat full to get to 135.
Watching the trace there turns were very crisp with no obvious overshoot or undershoot as you might expect with less control authority. The pilots did a great job as did ATC and the tower. Sometimes things go bad, but most times these professionals mange to bring it home -- you here about the bad ones but seldom the heroic saves.
That was fun; never saw anything like it .
Great CRM and great comms from ATC.
Nice work for all
I know.
Top-notch air controllers!
Approved ✅
Fuel in an emergency is to be given in pounds. The size of the fireball is why they want to know about fuel quantity not time.
Obvious exception of low fuel emergencies...
@@TheLoneWolfling Well it doesnt really matter to an atc person how much time they have. Once the minimum fuel or emergency has been declared and the reason for the emergency is relayed then the atc person is bound to get the plane on the ground as soon as possible or to assist the pilot in whatever way they need. Time remaining is not a factor. Maybe if there were two fuel emergencies at the same time in the same place. What are the chances of that? Fireball and response required is the reason.
@@Themheals Jul 26th 2012. Four (four!!!) aircraft either ended up landing below minimum fuel or declared a fuel emergency (or both). Due to a line of thunderstorms that resulted in problems at both Madrid and Vadridaa (the shared alternate).
@@Themheals Jul 26th 2012. Four (four!!!) aircraft either ended up landing below minimum fuel or declared a fuel emergency (or both). Due to a line of thunderstorms that resulted in problems at both Madrid and Vadridaa (the shared alternate).
"What are the chances of that?" For two planes having an unrelated issue at the same time, pretty low. For multiple planes having chosen the same alternate airport? Much higher. Correlated failure modes...
Alas, you're committing the classic blunder of assuming events are uncorrelated.
Fuel emergencies are often due to diversions and/or weather, both of which can easily affect multiple aircraft. For an extreme example of this look at Madrid on July twenty-sixth twenty-twelve.
Well done guys!
This may seem like a stupid question. Why is the heading 360 and not 0.
Stewart has a very long runway and no other air traffic in the area but AA doesn't fly there to reaccomodate pax. I think it might have been a better choice however due ro their issues.
Once again, fuel in hours given but fuel in pounds later requested. Every. Single. Time.
Who gives a shit - 99% of the time it doesn't matter and only wastes peoples time.
I heard that fuel in hours is for ATC to know how long the aircraft can stay in the air, while in pounds is for firefighters in case something bad happens.
@@dupontjean9263I always thought they had the ability to get a rough calculation based on the aircraft type without having to bug the pilots but I guess I was wrong considering they always ask for it.
@@WilliamOfDetroit07 The ATC are also busy warning other aircraft and getting them out of the way, plus still trying to maintain flights in and out of the airport. This also helps in getting room for the emergency aircraft.
I worked at Heathrow London and the airport vehicle I drove had VHF radio for airside use. I was amazed at the amount of work ATC does to clear a path for an emergency landing of a plane already in the landing stack. landing planes being sent North and South to make space and planes queueing for take off being kept clear of taxiways etc. for emergency vehicles.
I know I just don’t get it! It’s almost like ATC likes to piss the pilots off. They’re busy enough with an emergency!
I absolutely agree
Outstanding job both from the crew and all the ATC.
Both ailerons is pretty severe. What was the issue I wonder. Elac or sec computer?
Yeah....really. If they lost both ailerons then were they in Direct Mode? Loss of flight protections?
Wrong hydraulic fluid in the oscillation overthruster.
@ but there’s a dual set, so wouldn’t that mean only one of the servos would still work
@@rael5469 roll could still be controlled via the spoilers. But both ailerons would for sure introduce reduced protections Alternate Law 1 or 2
@@captainjimolchs Or maybe the turbo-encabulator, suffered a single neutron event.
Crew running checklists, figuring out where to go, planning which runway, setting up maps and navigation, probably advising passengers and we have several controllers badering for fuel on board! Crew did outstanding.
Unless something was edited out, the plane had not even declared an emergency
@@ArtStoneUSit has. Yes not initially, but later it has declared emergency and requested priority landing.
@@ArtStoneUS As a former Air Force pilot myself, I found it potentially annoying and distracting the the crew but they handled it quite well. Don't understand why controllers prefer pounds of fuel vs time remaining.
@@davideberhardt4977Fuel remaining in time is for SAR, weight is for overweight landings and 1st responders on the ground. These things are all required to increase safety. The real issue I saw was the failure of ATC to forward this information to the next controller/sector/facility. The crew should have only been asked these questions one time, but I'll tell you this, it's easy to Monday morning QB. A sector can be 10x busier than what you hear on these tapes. Sometimes you don't get the audio from other aircraft, you don't hear the controller taking landline calls, shout line calls, coordinating with other sectors, coordinating with the tower, Traffic Mamagement Unit, and the supervisor in your ear asking for certain information. I'm sure both ATC and the crew were really busy, overall a great job by everyone. The plane got down safely, that's all that matters in the end. We just keep learning from our mistakes and getting better, as a team, both pilots and controllers.
@@davideberhardt4977 Zero knowlege of planes but isn't the issue possible excessive weight upon landing? Of course if the controllers know fuel consumption of the plane as it was configured for flying at the time, plus the initial load of fuel, they could have calculated the pounds based upon hours left, but if the flight crew already has access to the actual weight, I would think that would be a more accurate number. But again, I know zero about planes and probably showed it with this post.
This one reminds me of a question I've had for some time. Some ATCs want fuel in hours, others in pounds. Why not just always give both measurements?
The aircraft can still turn (skid) with its vertical stabilizer, the aircraft can still maneuver up or down with its horizontal stabilizer.
It can turn using the spoilers.
Very good!
Saw where one planes ailerons were installed the wrong way. The pilots had to fly for 2 hours completely turning left for right and right for left and ended up surviving.
Air Astana E190 returning to Kazakhstan from Portugal after heavy maint. Just watched a great and very detailed documentary on it a few days ago: ruclips.net/video/5ywaMkMTwWk/видео.html
So is he turning using rudder only or rudder and power combined?
I have a question, do these flight control incidents seem to be at a higher rate than normal ? If I recall , a recent plane coming into NYC , their computer went down and they diddnt know the status of flaps and gear. The recent announcement of extensive infrastructure hacking in the USA by nation /states suggests hacks of the flight computer systems. I wonder if that's beeing checked. (I don't mean to drone on about it)
Ailerons? I thought Airbus still used wing warping...../s
Really? They don't shift their weight side to side like a hang-glider?😅
@KenGrimm1949 gotta have the passengers help then. Would Frontier charge extra for that?
Incredible proficiency performance from the aircrew! Congratulations guys!! Can anyone update on this very strange aileron part? What type of aircraft is it?
if my understanding is correct, ailerons are used in low speed flight regime - and spoilers + flaperons are used to augment or supplement - so while losing aileron controls is significant, its not a mayday situation necessarily.
Not necessarily, which is why they declared it so late, only when it became clear the resulting workload would require priority treatment and vectors.
@ghostrider-be9ek The ailerons are used at all speeds. They are mixed with the spoilers to control roll but are controlled by separate computers. No flaperons. Flaperons are trailing edge surfaces that lower symmetrically to increase lift at lower speeds, but can raise independently to aid roll. I would declare an emergency right away for any loss of a primary control surface. The spoilers will still control roll without the ailerons, but they will also induce drag on that wing causing a yaw movement. Small inputs will be fine, it will just feel sluggish. Still, wait until the report comes out to see what happened.
Whenever you have a non normal event in airspace like NY, you should declare a mayday status. Lots of ATC calls, traffic etc and you can miss radio and clearance calls , and then the FAA could violate you.
@@edwalker2790 good call
@@byronjaffe518 good call
I need to practice this in the simulator
How can you run a checklist with them calling you every 10 seconds?????
@@mer2705 The video is edited to shorten the silences. There will have been a much greater interval between most of the transmissions.
How have you made it this far without a checklist?
Cockpit sounds really loud for an airbus, or is it just some feedback from the ATC
Maybe fly-by-wire has limitations…?
I am still wondering, if they had issues with the ailerons how could they make a right turn? is it by using more engine power in the left than the right?
They used the spoilers and the rudder most likely.
If I am ever a passenger and the aircraft loses a primary flight control, I want the pilots to declare emergency right away. Good thing the ATC figured it out and started treating it as an emergency pretty soon.
Left and right ailerons? That would mean the loss of THREE hydraulic systems or loss of....what? Elac 1 AND Elac 2 ???? How would that even be possible?
I’m pretty sure LAFlights live was watching this come in to land.
😊
Did they use differential thrust? How do they steer with no ailerons?
steer a plane without ailerons, a pilot would primarily use the rudder to control the yaw (turning left or right), while utilizing throttle adjustments to compensate for any resulting changes in altitude or attitude, effectively creating a "slip" to initiate turns; this method is significantly less precise and requires more coordination than using ailerons for rolling maneuvers.
Other control surface on the wings can do the same thing just not as clean.
Differential use of spoilers. They keep acting as ailerons
Roll control can be maintained with spoilers and rudder. Differential thrust would be a last resort.
@@GeorgePsaros My boat had twin engines and so for mooring alongside I'd use the outside engine to snug her gently up to the dock. She was rale old and only had a center rudder so steering could be a challenge if I snagged something on a prop.
Only in the U.S.of A! The pilot calls ATC to report a flight control problem, and the first thing ATC does is instruct him to change heading! For the information of ATC, a change of heading requires the use of flight controls - perhaps it would be better to ask if the pilot can accept changes of heading and/or altitude before issuing such instructions in this situation.
Pilots got a light that something is not working. They go thru checklist.they found problem and now must burn fuel or they will be too heavy. Dont want to land with too much fuel,safety issue.
They got a light? Really?
Good thing that they were not overweight for landing, judging by what they told the controller.
Can someone explain how they manuevered the flight without functioning ailerons?
To steer a plane without ailerons, a pilot would primarily use the rudder to control the yaw (turning left or right), while utilizing throttle adjustments to compensate for any resulting changes in altitude or attitude, effectively creating a "slip" to initiate turns; this method is significantly less precise and requires more coordination than using ailerons for rolling maneuvers.
My guess is they lost both aileron computers ( ELACs) somehow. They will still have roll control with the spoilers which are controlled by separate computers, albeit it will be sluggish in roll.
@edwalker2790 correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the spoilers only be extended symetrically? I don't see how that would have any impact on the direction of the flight.
@klausbellroth5451 The spoilers must work symmetrically during landing to "spoil" the aerodynamic airflow over the wings (reducing speed) and to force the aircraft down on main landing gear (increasing brake efficiency). During flight, some of the several panels work together with the ailerons helping the roll movement.
@@TopTierHospitality-p6p this does not apply to airliners like the a320 - they have spoilers and flaperons that can be used
Wait, I thought only Boeing had problems?
No aircraft manufacturers are perfect.
Airbus jets can suffer problems like these. Pilots are trained to deal with these issues in-flight.
@@angelorobel12 My comment was merely rhetorical in nature.
So you can fly the A319 on Rudder alone...!
That's actually "manual law" in the Airbus.
Should still have Roll Spoilers
I don’t know why pilots have such a hard time declaring an emergency. The controllers declared a defacto emergency when the asked for fuel and souls. Thank god the controllers were already giving them priority handling. Also I’m a pilot. I would have declared the emergency the minute I recognized I had aileron problems
Don’t depart traffic prior to an emergency aircraft that requested the longest runway you have and priority handling due to lost ailerons ffs. Clear the bloody runway for them when they’re on that 12 mile final
Fuel and souls, then asked again later. They gotta do something about this. Why can acars not transmit this info directly to atc or operations instead of having to ask the pilots for their age and social
That information should have been forwarded to the next controller/ sector/facility. I'm not sure why this wasn't done. The crew should have only been asked one time for this information.
@ it’s ridiculous. Given today’s tech they can relay that info in real time. Next they’ll start asking pilots if they had chicken or fish for dinner.
Sooooo because this was an Airbus and not a Boeing suddenly people are comparatively silent about this...
Everyone did a great job. The younger-sounding pilot seemed to be getting task saturated (as evidenced by repeating back extraneous information to ATC), but kept it together nicely. I only question not asking for the trucks to "look the aircraft over" or something similar. There is no harm in an inspection. ARFF can use its thermal camera to confirm there aren't hot spots and visually confirm there isn't a leak. Computer, hydraulic and electrical systems all are involved in controlling the ailerons. A quick inspection on the ground just seems prudent.
_> pilot seemed to be getting task saturated (as evidenced by repeating back extraneous information to ATC)_
Yup, that seems to be a pretty reliable indicator!
Fire was not an issue. Nor was crash equipment requested of offered.
I can't imagine the fear passengers went through when they saw they are turning back to New York. I hope there pilot made an announcement that it's just a technical issue
Especially if it happened to be on Sept. 11..
Can someone explain why passing LGA to go to JFK was a good choice?
JFK has longer runways.
Stewart has runways as long as JFK. Would have had way less traffic and turning to deal with.
Why fly 100 miles back to Kennedy without ailerons when SWF is right under you? This was not a decision for safety - it was a decision for money.
Your thought process is correct for a "land as soon as possible" kind of situation... but this was not that. An onboard fire, for example, would necessitate a landing ASAP. However, in this case the airplane was clearly flyable and controllable and there was nothing dictating an immediate landing. If you're not on fire or under some other extremely time-sensitive scenario, you always want to consider the best option for all involved, and a runway right under you is always AN answer, but is not always the BEST answer. JFK has heavy-duty AA maintenance, customer service and support, other flights to get the passengers on, hotels, rental cars, and all the passengers just came from the NYC area (LGA). SWF has none of that, so dumping everyone off in SWF and stranding the airplane there would be an unnecessary logistical nightmare for the passengers, the crew, the airplane, the maintenance teams, and everyone else involved, especially when flying just a few minutes further in a perfectly flyable airplane would eliminate all that and exponentially increase the resources available for everyone.
Plus they have time to go through the necessary heck lists.
Why is it always the same ? The pilot says “we need time to figure things out”. Tower say’s “Take the time you need”. Then the tower never stops asking them questions distracting them. Every single one of these emergencies are the same - the Tower never stops talking and asking the same questions over and over. Maybe that’s the procedure, annoying the hell out of the pilots. Just divert other traffic and STFU until they tell you what’s needed.
No emergency declaration??
Boeing called Airbus and said they would take hit on this too nobody’s going to know.
What happened to the backup systems?
They worked
Fun !!!
As a pilot I can't understand why controllers do not have a standard question for fuel on board. Some want pounds some gallons some time. This wastes time in a cockpit operating on emergency.
Obviously if they had just taken off from LaGuardia fuel is not a concern so why bother to ask.
You must have been watching another video.
PUT THIS TRANSCRIPT ON AN EMERGENCY COMM TEXT BOOK.
…As Buffoons on the flight deck, good example of how not to accomplish an emergency return. 🤭
@@gonzoonigawara7294 That textbook includes the international standard terms of 'pan' and 'mayday', neither of which were used.
Turns out it was a simple glass fuse that blew...
Surely you can't be serious.
I am serious and please stop calling me Shirley.
Another airjunk issue
Just for balance...............oh look another not a Boeing :)
It's an Airbus.
@@suekamm4125 hence not a Boeing ...
Yes just for balance did not crash
Just to add… who is the responsible party for maintaining the aircraft?
Always always always an issue with fuel. He gives it to him twice in time, and of coarse the twr then wants it in pounds that he has to repeat!!
And i can't even get my food order right at Mcdonalds! These People Rock!!🇬🇧👏
Turns with rudder alone?
Pan-pan, pan-pan, pan-pan?????????????????
nah
Good job by the crew overall, but the stubborn refusal of US crews to use proper terminology like the rest of the world is bizarre. Means they use three times the number of words when brevity is essential.
@@andrewtaylor9610 sorry but here in America we dont give a shit about the rest of the world.
@@budguy21 That is painfully obvious, much to your discredit.
@@andrewtaylor9610 when you put a man on the moon maybe we'll care, In the meantime, keep living in our shadow. Any real pilot knows pan pan is completely unnecesary, it accomplishes nothing, and is wasted air time.
What happened to disable aileron control....I have never been comfortable with Airbus...I know theyre not falling out of the sky but just have never like the side stick control or the fly by wire set up..central located yokes and fly by cables....lol
Surely PAN PAN PAN?
nah nobody does that
Not a fire,no real emergency. That used in case of real emergency..fire..
@@Barbara-u5h 100% wrong. Loss of flight controls is definitely a real emergency. There are many many emergencies that are NOT fire.
It’s a pity PAN PAN PAN isn’t used in the US anymore. It makes clear the priority of the emergency to ATC and reduces the workload on the crew on downstream comms.
@@PG-ji6vq there is NO reason to use pan pan. Just declare an emergency.
You gotta love when ATC is trying to dispatch and be pilots all at the same time , Please stick to the ATC procedures keyboard and mic , let the pilots do their job !!!
You've got to be frigging kidding me. Bloody God's gift to Humandkind are RUclips airm chair pilots. FFS. Don't hit your huge head on the way out.
@@jonathanparle8429 No arm chair pilots here only real ones. But if you are an ATC you dont have to get your panties in a bunch. Let the pilots decide and make their decisions.
Aileron's don't work, but we're able to turn. That's odd.
So funny how everyone asks how long it will take. Reminds me of my boss. Idiots. It's done when it is done.
They want to know if they gonna remain holding in their airspace or if they need to prepare handling them to the next controller.
Yeah UNKNOWN problem, but we need to know the time to fix and UNKNOWN problem.
Wow another serious flight emergency without making the headlines, how do these airlines manage to keep this so quiet?
Do you know how many of these emergency flights happen every day across the US? The flight landed safely, what's to report?
@bp900 So you're saying many incidents as serious as losing aileron control are happening every day?
@@pizzanpepsi why is this news?? Nothing happened.
The airlines don’t do anything. This stuff is public. If only media were interested.
Calm down, this is zero drama, no conspiracy and nothing to report. What exactly do you want the news to be? Airplane broke, but nothing happened because of good training, security protocols and redundant systems?
AA Pilots are the WORST , Declare the Emergency and when ATC asks how long you need MAKE SOMETHING UP!
lie to atc? Great idea.
You don't lie to atc. AA pilots are professional. Don't want to declare an emergency landing if it's not. "Emergency landing" involves more of a landing
Even better, use the correct terminology and declare pan or mayday, as specified in international standards.
@@andrewtaylor9610 relax karen
@budguy21 Is that your best response? To just childishly jibe someone who disagrees with you? Pathetic.
THIS IS WHY ACCIDENTS OCCUR...MORE THAN 30.MINUTES TO PUT PLANE ON GROUND SO MUCH TALK AND B.S
uh, but nothing happened so maybe sit quietly and let the experts handle it
The only unprofessional thing I see here is you sitting in your armchair yelling about something you clearly know nothing about.
Checklists take time. The only time to force à landing early is fire or smoke in the cabin.
Your keyboard is malfunctioning. Please throw it away.
Wow. Some "video"... starts out with a page of text to read. Silence. No narrator, not even any sappy royalty-free music. There's too much of this half-assed crap.
@shaggybreeks Stupid comment! If you do not like it, do not hit the button (watch).
Wtf
I bet you got a lump of coal yesterday.
@@RaineStudio😂😂😂
A guy went to a bucher and asked "how much is this piece of meat?" The bucher said" it is free",the guy said"can you weigh it for me please?"