Steam forcing updates to Win 10/11 to play games - do you actually "own" games bought through Steam?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- help.steampowered.com/en/faqs....
"As of January 1 2024, Steam will officially stop supporting the Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 operating systems. After that date, the Steam Client will no longer run on those versions of Windows."
More importantly - "In order to continue running Steam and any games or other products purchased through Steam, users will need to update to a more recent version of Windows." 
Игры
Woah woah woah woah. Are you telling me that if I take my 2006 Mac Pro out of the closet, fire up Windows XP I will not be able to contine my Euro Truck Simulator 2 save with Steam?
I still have the 1GB SCSI hard drive feom my first PC, a 486 DX2 66 with a whopping 16 MB or RAM. It served me well. I kind of miss it. I ran OS/2 on it.
The ultimate 200 IQ move is when you realize that this entire video is actually an ad for data recovery.
@@rossmanngroup😂😂😂
@@rossmanngroup If the client can't use the latest security features, the servers can't use the latest security features. Or they would not be able to talk to each other securely. By requesting support for his old Operating System, he's requesting support for old security standards. A hacker would be able to gain access to the Steam servers and gain access to everyone's account. I would prefer that Valve runs the latest security features on their servers to protect my account and purchases. Update your Operating System! It's free.
If your Windows 7 hard drive crashes, you'll need to replace it. You can't download your games if the Steam client is offline-only. You'll need to connect to the Steam servers to, sign in and download your purchased games. This can only occur when then entire chain is secure.
@@rossmanngroup this isn't about game ownership at all! This is about security risk prevention for both users and Valve. Both Windows 7 and 8 including 8.1 stopped getting security patches or updates since year 2020 but Microsoft just extended it by 1 more year to 2021. not only that since Steam also uses Chromium for their browser which also stopped supporting win7 and 8 just this year.
unless you want Steam users getting easily hacked because of them using old unsupported OSes. and you can play some games with steam offline if you want but this is only up to the developers or publisher to stop users from running their games offline. Steam doesn't really care they are a store first and for most its up to the devs or most likely Publishers to either force DRM for their games.
@@dwinges exactly. so they can simply disable online features and just have a game play.
also, updating your OS with windows is NOT free... even if it was, it's trash. why should i "update" to a worse OS?
Fun fact: It's legal under the DMCA to crack/reverse engineer software that's been taken away from you due to lack of support.
Can you cite the specific section that says that?
Source or it ain’t true
Fun fact: in some jurisdictions it is completely legal to reverse engieneer
@@justinbuckley Just don’t get caught xD
@@antikommunistischaktionTitle 17 USC §1201(f)
Just gonna add this to the discussion: This isn't a digital vs physical thing. If people want to make sure their games will ever be owned, they need to start supporting DRM free releases. Like what GOG does.
I just hope that GOG would eventually have better currency support and easier payment options. It would definitely attract more people, just like how I was able to buy games on Steam because payment options are more accessible for me.
GOG is more “truly owning games” than physical copies ever were. Remember how you were forced to insert the disc just so you could start a game? How copy protection prevented you from making your own backup? How crap like Games for Windows Live and SecuROM rendered tons of games useless years after buying them because the DRM was no longer supported by the manufacturer?
And don’t even get me started on consoles.
My support is for Steam, as they have given me an option to NOT rely on Microsoft and Windows for gaming... GoG on the other hand does not do this, however thanks to some of the work and money Steam has poured into Wine, some of their catalogue can run with a little tweaking.
but gog sucks, steam has a ton of features and a nicer launcher
GOG is my primary PC platform because of no DRM, but I want to point out that their EULA does make it clear that you own a license and if they ever terminated your account you're technically not allowed to have any backups. Granted that's impossible for them to track, and the reason I prefer GOG is the ability to keep my installers and run them on older operating systems. It's odd to me that Valve can't release (or at least support) a legacy launcher/downloader just for downloading software.
The issue is that Steam on older versions of Windows is effectively just Chromium. Chromium is dropping support for older versions of Windows and so the standard Steam client won't work. However, you could actually use steamcmd to continue installing, playing, and managing games on older versions of Windows with a stripped down version of the client. This is a first party tool provided by Valve. If you really want to stay on Windows 7, by all means. You just have to learn how look up the appids of Steam games.
So what you're really saying is that we can have a Steam client (well, more like Steam library manager, I guess, since there will be no purchasing and browsing stuff) at home by just creating an open-source GUI for that utility
Hmm, after a superficial search, it seems like it might not let you launch games, though. Obviously not an issue for games that don't require Steam API, but for the rest it might be an issue. I'll have to look into it more some time later, I guess
they could change to Mozilla as base, which still supports older Windows Versions (just not Firefox it self)
@@JoducusKwak No, they can't because they are probably using something like electron/node to integrate everything which is made using Chromium.
@@freemansfreedom8595 and Mozilla does not provide anything similar?
@@MrCh0o smartsteamemu or goldberg steam emu you're welcome
Gabe was mostly proven right when he said that piracy was largely a service problem, Steam caused piracy to plummet, and its convenience was a large factor in its success. If they remove the 'service' , then they will simply be bypassed and people will hoist the black flag, doubly so if they have purchased it and are just illegally accessing something they legally purchased.
People said the same thing when they dropped 98 support in 2006, and the same thing in 2018 when they dropped XP support. It won't happen.
well said.
@@candle86 huh? Piracy is still as popular as ever
simply use gog then :)
It will happen. Just not a large group of people. Most people don’t play really old games.
Just wanted to note: Valve/Steam itself does not enforce games to have a license check. It's up to the developers whether Steam API initialization is a requirement for the game to run. The games we (PH3) port typically try to initialize Steam API (and GOG API) to provide features like achievements; however, if the Steam API cannot be initialized, the game just continues running normally in (what we call) DRM-free mode.
Ye ive used steam sdk for game projects in unreal unity and godot and if the SDK fails to initialize nothing happens simply just returns a error code the game dev is the one who decides if it lets you keep playing or not
>DRM-free mode
Based
I noticed that with Celeste on Epic Games Store, too. it doesn't do any DRM checks if you run the executable directly
Yup, I know many games that can be started from the exe without requiring Steam.
@@achillesa5894Yep that's right
Game dev here: Steam isn't the only one doing this. Unity (the massively popular game engine) is dropping Win 7 compatbility soon too. Some early access players have been complaining about the Steam change, not knowing that Unity is gonna force our hand (for future games) anyway. It's unfortunate for us because the games we make are 2D pixel art games that would very happily run on old hardware running Win 7, or even XP for that matter. We're quite late in the dev cycle, but for our next project we're evaluating open source game engines. The Win 7 compatibility isn't the only reason for this. Unity has a reputation for being dishonest and shady with the devs that use it, and while working on some more advanced features of our game (mod support) i encountered multiple game engine bugs that have been reported but unfixed for several years. If Unity was open source, i could simply fork, fix and pull request.
EDIT: Changed the wording slightly to clarify that I mean for future projects. Unity version for the current one is pretty much locked.
another game dev here. Who give a fuck what unity thinks? You can still use old unity version and they are perfectly fine. You don't need to chase latest version in order to make games
I have been hearing a lot about Godot
My suggestion as another game dev: Use Godot! I've been using it for the past few months (migrated from MonoGame) and it's incredible! The most recent updates to the engine are mostly quality of life improvements, having to do with shader uniforms, the main UI, etc. Obviously it would be a nightmare trying to convert your current project, but for future ones, I highly recommend it. Best of luck, btw.
have you looked into godot?
Another game dev here: if you're late in development then why aren't you pinned to a major unity version by now? I'd worry about introducing breaking changes at that point.
The internet actually fights back. I remember when EA cancelled the old Origin launcher. They wanted you to forceupdate into the EA launcher and make the origin launcher useless. The internet said: no. Got a hold of old launcher data wrote some code and now we still use the origin launcher.
man i remember when they made the switch, for some reason it wouldn't let me play any of my games on the new launcher and the old one still sorta worked, eventually they fixed it and forced me to upgrade again i had no idea you could still use origin, im guessing its a 3rd party launcher now? how does that work exactly
@@titans2720 just for proof. This is the old fix I used ruclips.net/video/4xf3-dphNe8/видео.html. I can still play battlefield via it but only because I had battlefield still installed. I cannot download ew games or use the launcher really. I can only play my games without updating to EA. I think the new fix is meant to fix this issue too.
Origin is horrible why in the world would you prefer it over the new one
@@tannisroot becauae the new one does not work for everybody. Some people lost access to their owned games due to the EA client. Some people cannot boot up games in he EA client. The original client isn't pretty bu I worked for ou games we bought there.
@@lars4349and that’s why I have a folder called games where i put all desktop shortcuts of the games I play just so i don’t have to use any of the shitty launchers which won’t even open if you don’t have internet connection
I checked the new EA Launcher and they have fixed some bugs like the login issue where if you had keep me logged in the launcher wouldn’t launch
From the very beginning, Steam-bought games would not belong to the "buyer". I was there, when people uproared because they bought Halflife 2 on CD but needed a working internet connection each time they started this OFFLINE game. And they had to install the Steam client to activate it at all. Today's situation was practically announced loudly back in 2004 and there was never any question that it wouldn't end up exactly like it did.
This is why game emulation and game preservation is so important.
Meanwhile Nintendo:- Emulators are pirates who only want money while our big billion dollar corpo is so honest.
You misspelled piracy.
I downloaded an emulator and Mario Kart Wii so I can play it on my PC and relive the glory days of playing that game and beating the NPCs. Game preservation is a necessity!
@@havenbastion piracy is also important if not the most important but not the same thing as emulation
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombatspecially funny when they sell roms back to consumers.
Interesting statement I recently read. "Piracy can't be stealing if paying for it isn't owning."
Lemmy?
Pretend my like is two likes.. i don't want to set up another account.
That is an interesting statement. You can google the statement. Interesting.
How does that make sense. Are you implying that if you rent something with no option to buy, it's not stealing to take it without consent?
@@himedo1512 What does renting something have to do with anything?
I think GoG is proving it's worth more and more.
I can still play my GoG bought games on my XP rig
I still have the XP OS. Maybe I should install it on a new system just so I can play my old games like Battle for Middle Earth 1 + 2 (which seems to be a problem getting it to run on Windows 10 at the moment) as well as my other XP era games.
@@jodiepalmer2404 GoG put some effort into getting old games to run properly on modern systems, whereas steam will happily sell you a game that won't work on your current system
@@TheDoctorFlay GOG is more curated. Valve leaves it up to the publishers to ensure compatibility.
I recently bought a game on gog instead of steam where i usually buy games, just to support them
GoG is the way to go. I'll be buying several games there to play on an 8.1 laptop at the end of this year.
2:40 ... yes, that's actually exactly what they are doing. Steam Proton is a piece of software that allows you to run Windows-only games on Linux. It currently supports a huge majority of titles on Steam, and these days only ever struggles with games which implement extremely invasive anti-DRM systems or refuse to enable Linux support in their anti-cheat system (for almost every single popular anti-cheat that currently exists, it's simply a toggle checkbox)
Yeah, with wine/proton the compatibility issue is almost non-existent. I've been playing Diablo 4 on my Steam Deck and it runs beautifully.
yea not to mention one of their newest product: steamdeck, runs Linux. Valve seeminly seriously wants Linux to be mainstream (also find it bit funny at the same time as CEO (gabe) was a microsoft dev during 80s)
@@vendybirdsvadl7472 I believe it's likely an effort against Microsoft's monopoly in the gaming market, with gamepass and all the acquisitions
Yep. It even works with many EAC (developed by Epic) enabled games. In this case the guy on this Steam thread is definitely a jackass.
I've actually had games, without a Linux version, work on Linux that I couldn't get running on Windows.
One of the reasons my GOG library has grown over the years, very easy to keep backups of all my purchases physically.
Congrats on having a nas/ external drive. That's still not having a game physically.
@@vincentvega3093 Go crazy and write a 20 DVD split archive
I would have switched to GOG, if they'd bothered to release Galaxy for Linux. Like they promised back when they introduced it. However, they eventually dropped all pretense of even considering the port. And yes, I am aware of the unofficial ways to achieve something similar to what Steam and Galaxy offer in terms of having all your games listed in a single interface, from where you can install/uninstall them, keep them up to date without having to manually visit the site, and launch them. However, as far as I know, none of those implement cloud saves. But most importantly: I do not want to financially support a company that treats me like a second class citizen.
Before Galaxy, I bought quite a few games through GOG because I liked their consumer-friendly "no DRM" approach. Nowadays, I only visit their site to pick up the giveaways they promote through their newsletter. As a result of their decision, my GOG account has stagnated and my Steam collection has grown to the point where even if they released Galaxy today, unless they offered to add the 400+ games I have on Steam to my GOG account as well, I'm not even considering the switch. There was GOG Connect, but that only added a handful of games where they were able to make a deal with the publisher. And it's been years since it even picked up a single game in my Steam collection to add to my GOG account. I assume it's dead now. So odds of them matching my entire Steam collection are slim, and consequently, so are their chances of ever welcoming me as a paying customer again.
@@vincentvega3093it is, it is as much as any other media containing a game that we call physical games, and the incredible thing of GOG is letting you even from the website download the offline game installers and being able to use those games without the client, GOG Galaxy, in fact I remember when it was first released and the motto was GOG Galaxy The Optional Client
@@EvenTheDogAgreesA little inconvenient but not a Deal Breaker for me, I have a Steam Deck, wanted to use SteamOS and had many games in GOG, I simply installed GOG Galaxy with Proton as you can do in any other Linux distro and all works properly even cloud save, and what you want me to tell you, you will probably need Proton to run the games anyway in most cases, just using it to install the client almost doesn’t even classify as another hop, worse and more annoying hops I needed to go through with native Linux software to be honest, so preferable to have a Linux client, yes, but isn’t the end of the world so given their approach to ownership, I still choose them when possible
Given what that dude said about Linux and "almost all games not running on it": there's some out of touchness going on both sides. Valve invests an entire division to making sure almost all games run on Linux
i was suprised he didn't mention that
it's funny how he calls out Linux support not being the best, but would migrate to Linux none the less.
honestly, just upgrading to win10 is probably the best option, no reason to stay on win7 at this point, most companies stopped all support for win7, it's a security hazard for anyone using it, i get not upgrading to win11 till it has some version that gets rid of all the bloatware and unneccesary checks, but win10 overal is a solid enough OS, didn't have any issues on it.
I had the same thought, the steam deck literally runs Linux
well yup, but the whole video is about older games, that noone will bother to port to linux. And yes, they should support XP.
@@EvolMatewell most game are not ported to linux either linux player plays them using proton which is based on wine. A compatibility layer to run windows software on linux and most game runs fine on it.
Win7 was hands-down my favorite version of Windows. It was really snappy, you clicked on something and it opened smoothly and ran all my games so well.
And it also didn't tell you when you were going to update your computer. Whether you liked it or not. Plus the phone home stuff. Plus the dozens upon dozens of other issues Win10 has that Win7 lacks.
I switched Linux because it feels more like Windows 7 than Windows does nowadays
Still use win7 even STeam push me and bough the chipest notebook for supporting gaming on win11 still use win 7old as my main pc
win11 and 10 is stuck for adding lot of shortcut folders at the left of the window.
Win7 just can add and show unlimit
I agree.
Also moving to Linux once Win10 reaches EOL.
A great alternative to Steam is GOG. It has a launcher similar to steam, but most games also have an option to download as a standalone executable.
And also, GOG specializes in those old games that the user was asking about. They even update them to run on newer OS!!!
They're really a great service i cant recommend enough.
While GOG might be a good alternative NOW, we don't know what the future holds. Better to download all those offline installers...
in the future if something doesnt work you can still download it from those special sites @@FischOderAal
@@FischOderAal which you should do anyway (looks at my 4 TB drive I use as an archive for them)
i don't actually think this was a choice Valve made lightly. rather i think the reason for this is because some chromium frameworks that Steam depends on has hard dependencies on newer versions of windows. so in essence, if steam wants to keep running properly, then they have to migrate.
1: Nothing keeps them from using different versions of chromium 2: they could run it in a sort of legacy mode and allow game play even if you can't access the store/reviews/community pages.
@@MrStonedOne Actually unpatched security vulnerabilities in deprecated chromium versions is what keeps them. This is just one of the consequences of Google having a monopoly on a unified web brower standard. Why? Because they're the only ones paying the open sources devs a livable wage. Donations can only go so far, you know. Truly free, uncontrolled, unfunded open source is about as mythical as actually achieving a True Neutral Ending in shin megami tensei games IRL.
There would be no problem if they had a version without the store. No need to add a browser.
@@nisbahmumtaz909 Huh. Didn't think about that but its probably very close to the actual reason. Valve themselves pay hundreds of developers to keep the gears churning on various open source linux projects they use
I mean there's obviously infinite variables but this does not let steam off the hook. I always see this trend of just trying to blame some other monopolistic Corporation.
You're buying a license to use the product until the license holder feels like dropping support for you. That's why it's not only important to buy physical where you can but also pirate & seed pirated content
Also if you buy games from steam or some other online store, backup the games files on a separate Drive so you always have the games files, someone will always have a crack out there for whatever game you're trying to play
You can't buy physical on PC, since 2010 boxes were just steam codes and a manual. Now there's no manual.
And why there should be much more strong language and laws on what actually defines digital ownership
I mean I think this story is a bit misleading. Your games don't go away if you don't upgrade your OS, the issue is that the steam client will not work as it runs on chromium. Just upgrading your OS or even changing your computers you'll still keep all the games and even your game saves as they have free cloud backup.
The exact same rules apply to any software for which you have a physical copy. Same EULA. The disc or card is just the key to access your licensed software. This is how it's always been. You can only "own" a videogame if you wrote the code yourself. People really don't read those terms they agree to every time, huh?
I hate it when companies think updating is just a heaven mandate... I own computers that I specifically keep frozen in time software-wise for archival purposes. I still use them, I still play games on them, I just don't install any software newer than whatever arbitrary date I decide.
Us power users are just getting fist after fist after fist these days man...
Fun fact: when Chromium Embedded went EOL on Windows XP/Vista in 2016, EA, via the Origin client update, simply disabled the option in the client to make any game purchases on Windows XP/Vista. That way users could still download their games. I wish Valve would use the same approach, but I doubt it. There's a way to disable the Steam client auto-update via a simple cfg file (at least there used to be), but at some point, the older client will likely no longer connect to the Steam service due to Valve's changes to the Steam's backend. In fact I don't think the old Windows XP-compatible Steam client works anymore simply because of the backend changes.
i mean ea now made EA App that doesnt even let you move games and you have to edit registry keys to do so. So idk who is worse off atm
the elite scum pay microsoft to continue to use windows XP and windows 7! so why they forcing this new garbage while they keep the old stuff?
The smart thing for Valve to do would be making a legacy client which only lets you download and play the games you already purchased. They don't even need to actively maintain the client, since nothing on the customer's system is going to change anyway.
Sounds like a GOG.
steamcmd is a "legacy client"
Not having to maintain the client might be too simplified. If they change how games are downloaded, then the client musts support the new method. But they could put in a minimum amount of maintenance.
Which works until some idiot running windows 7 downloads the wrong game, runs it through steam and the vulnerability exposes data, so they sue the bejeezus out of Steam because US lawsuits are out of control.
@@legendarylava8775 Will steamcmd continue to work? I mean, assume the reason for the dropped support is their recent switch to Chromium it should, but is there any info about whether it actually will?
As some people commented, it's not a Steam issue per se, currently the steam app is basically a web page rendered in chromium, if chromium drops support for something, they just can't support it. So it's actually a syndrome of "make everything a web page" more than anything else
it's astonishing how many people don't know about this
that clearly the Steam/Valve issue is that they're failing to adequately communicate this. If they were to actually SAY that's the issue, then maybe the writer of those letters would redirect his anger at Google or Microsoft or whoever else is the REAL cause of his problems, and not blame Steam for merely having to be the messenger. But Steam chooses to be vague and arrogant in this communication and so they take ALL the blame. You reap what you sow, Valve.
Do they really need that to authenticate your purchase though? Couldn’t games purchased through Steam just communicate with their servers without launching the app?
I suppose maybe if all Steam’s services use chromium including the authenticator then it makes sense, but it seems like that would have been a poor choice in hindsight to not write up a program for that.
@@stolendiamond09 There's also the issue that M$ hasn't supported any version of Windows 8.1 or earlier for some time now, so it's possible Valve can't run their app on those OSes securely anymore. I'm trained in network security and 1 weak link in your system can lead to bad actors getting in and wrecking havoc. All it takes to ruin the Steam accounts of everyone for hours, days or even for some permanently is for someone to back door their way in via a vulnerable connection of some hapless win 7 or 8 user who's system has become inherently vulnerable due to lack of support, and a successful privilege escalation from there to get admin or even root level access to the Steam servers and we've got a hot mess.
That's not an excuse. Valve chose to make Steam work this way. They didn't have to. The responsibility is 100% theirs.
GOG allows you to download installers for all games for you to copy to older systems. In some cases, you have to install the game on a modernish system to get access to the game files ( for msdos mostly).
Steam should do the same for legacy OS that are required by the game yet unsupported by Microsoft or Apple for that matter.
SteamCMD says hi
@@gosera-1108SteamWorks DRM has something to say, unfortunately...
GOG isn't supported on windows 7 either
@@chadbizeau5997 It probably works on Windoes 7 as well, if it still supports Windows 8.1 .
Regardless, you are not forced to download and use the Galaxy client - it's entirely optional.
1. I'm so sick and tired of anti-consumer practices in the name of security.
2. Oreo turning his butt to you and staying close enough to be pet is a sign of extreme trust in you. If a cat is mad it will leave the area you are in.
Slow blink for Oreo.
Alternatively the windows 10 telemetry disabling is mature and was easy to do after installed it couple months ago when i got this shitty news. Still free upgrade from 8.1 had to dig for it though
@@RUclips_username. slow Bink indeed.
Would you rather have pro-consumer pratices but little to no security?
*"In order to continue running Steam and any games or other products purchased through Steam, users will need to update to a more recent version of Windows."*
If turning steam on in offline mode would work indefinitely, it really sucks that given two opportunities to respond with this that steam support never mentioned it. *""In order to continue running Steam and any games or other products purchased through Steam, users will need to update to a more recent version of Windows."* really sounds damning otherwise.
I understand why the gentleman sought clarification and was disappointed with the response. The good news is that there's 5 months between now & January 2024 for them to come up with a better solution & way of communicating it, and I hope they do!
help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4784-4F2B-1321-800A#:~:text=Steam%20Support%20%3A%3A%20Windows%207%20and%20Windows%208%20Support&text=As%20of%20January%201%202024,on%20those%20versions%20of%20Windows.
Just another reason to use Linux, I guess.
he could probably turn steam on in offline mode and play on that same windows 7 machine indefinetly. He won't be able to buy new games eventually, but that ability would come with security concerns, so perhaps he's okay with the current solution of using steam offlinemode indefinetely.
For most games this is easily circumventable as many do not contain DRM, if taking the steps to copy them from the Steam Library, you "own" that copy.
Which is something I have been meaning to do for the games I care about most, all of these working without the client.
Another possibility is SteamCMD, which will probably continue to work on 7 and 8(.1).
An older version of which can be hacked to continue working on Windows XP/Vista too apparently, for now.
Of course requiring such workarounds is not proper ownership, but Valve does not fight you too hard in doing so.
And I've heard that games with their DRM can be made to work with a client emulator, never tried this myself as the official client works on Linux.
Where funnily enough the official Steam client is often the only reason to have 32 bit libraries installed, as it has not been updated itself.
The problem is also that steam is built on top of chromium/ chrome and support for windows 7 / 8 has already ended or is about to end. I’m a linux and steam deck user and valve has managed to get over 8000 titles working on linux. Most of my library works perfectly on steamOS and I also encourage people to support this move so that we can eventually go full linux support for games and not depend on Microsoft.
if turning steam on in offline mode would work indefinitely, it really sucks that given two opportunities to respond with this that steam support never mentioned it. *""In order to continue running Steam and any games or other products purchased through Steam, users will need to update to a more recent version of Windows."* really sounds damning otherwise
I remember as a kid not liking Steam because having CDs meant I controlled it "What if something happened to the steam?" I still think this, although steam doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but my concerns have changed to pretty much what you've said. I generally try to get stuff on GoG first. It has its own issues too - but man do I miss having physicals. I know eventually they will decay and I will need to transfer them onto something else, but its still nice.
I thought like that too but when CDs became as unpopular as analog tapes and digital downloads took over, I thought the prices would drop also. to my surprise the prices were more or equal despite not having to distribute on physical media with printed manuals and fancy boxes. i've seen games listed in steam store for over $50 and takes more than 3 days to download, then another 2 days to download an update in order to play it!
I have 6TB on my pc for movies and games. I try to keep things installed/functional, but games have updates and more "connection" authentication methods that ruin formerly installed versions. Steam is okay, it's the publishers that are bowling us over.
Valve has a deal setup in case something happens to steam they will let everyone download installers for all of their games.
@@jeffreyparker9396 I've heard this for years on forums and reddit. Point me to the source of this information.
@@jeffreyparker9396 that wont help if you then need to connect through a steam client to activate your software key 😄
The whole software licensing system as a blanket rule for all types of software is annoying. The amount of shenanigans they put consumers through is becoming absurd. I want to go back to a time before games studios were taken over by soulless executives whose motives/actions are antithetical, and sometimes antagonistic, to their customers.
After that message appeared on my Steam app, I stopped buying any more games from them. This is unacceptable. I should be able to run the games I paid for if the games support W7. They lost one customer forever. Good for GOG though :)
This is why I'm considering building a 'legacy' games PC without internet connection, so as to prevent unwanted updates to either the games I play, or the platform itself. Once again, I feel screwed over by purchasing games legitimately, when piracy provides offline access and sometimes even improved performance due to removal of anti-piracy bloatware. My other option is to download anti-DRM cracks for all my games. I might as well just start pirating while I'm going to all that effort anyways.
just ditch windows and go linux... or make a offline W7 VM
What about gog? Good old games? They should be legitimate the owners of Witcher?
@@bridge2499 Witcher games in GOG all WITHOUT DRM.
That's insane, don't do that. Just learn the basics of UNIX terminal and move on to Linux already.
@@ItsBoyRed Excuse my audacity, please, but if I may - do you have a functional Windows 7 VM? On Linux under KVM? And with functioning GPU pass-through? It's a topic I've been unsuccesfully entertaining for some time now.
To Valve's credit, they've made Linux into a viable gaming system, and the only thing I miss from Windows 7 is independent programs that do one absurdly specific task most users won't care about (edit/convert/view this one weird filetype used only by a single program/company) that could probobly be run in Proton/WINE with a little work. Proton/WINE is really, really good now with 98% of tested games (according to ProtonDB) running fine, and most of the remaining 2% being due to third party malware (rootkits included in the name of anti-cheat/anti-piracy). Many games that didn't run right on Windows 7 (let alone 10) actually run fine in Proton out of the box, no tweaks needed. Newer games (3-4 years old) often run slightly better in Proton than they do on Windows 10/11.
Edit: Have to point out that you need an AMD GPU if you want gaming on Linux to work. NVIDIA's drivers on Linux are trash. Intel might work, and even its Linux drivers have a reputation of being *less* awful than the Windows ones, but I can't vouch for it at present.
"Independent programs that do one absurdly specific task most users won't care about"
Can I reintroduce you to Linux? 🤣
Usually it's the freaking anti cheat software blocking online features on Linux. Other than that I've gotten most games to run fine. However, for brand new games I've sometimes had to track down weird experimental Proton versions from obscure Git repositories to get things running. It's a bit finicky sometimes. On a positive note, Driver management on Linux has been pretty pain free compared to Win 10.
I'll probably switch completely once Win 10 loses support. Linux keeps getting better every year, and Windows keeps getting more insulting.
@@fnorgen Anti cheat software won't support older versions of Windows for long so the point still stands.
I love Proton, but it's also silently killing new Linux native games, which were blossoming a couple of years ago.
@sovo1212 I get your point, but also... Why does it matter?
Hey, I believe that when you buy a game, you should get the game files with no DRM and be able to use them however you see fit, short of selling or redistributing. Unfortunately, we live in a world of corporations so paranoid of their inevitable irrelevance that they would rather something cease to function than escape their unilateral control.
Don't blame the companies, blame the people. If they did what you wished for, piracy would be rampant and nobody would bother trying to make a game because it would just get copied and shared and maybe even sold by middle men types. Point is that shitty people are the reason we can't have nice things. It's always the people that ruin a good thing.
@@JarofMayonaise You can safely redistribute DRM-free indie games because they do not have the resources or desire to pursue legal action. As I'm sure you are aware, no small indie game companies exist, and it is because of this fact.
@@JarofMayonaise If a game is DRM free, I will buy it. If a game has Denuvo, I download a cracked DRM-free version off of a site hosted by kind-hearted people that are willing to share.
Feel free to tell your boss, suit.
That's why I buy games on GOG, and when I don't find them there I go to Steam. What I find more frustrating about Steam is that game updates are forced upon you, when a game is modded like e.g. one from the Total War series there is a big chance the update breaks multiple mods during your single-player campaign.
I went from win7 to linux. Steam actually runs pretty well in linux - they have their own fork of wine built into the client. I've been able to play all my games with no problems. I'd say this is probably a windows issue rather than a steam issue.
It is NOT a Windows issue - it's because Steam uses Chromium.
Interesting, I will have to check this out. Lack of gaming support has been keeping me away from Linux
It's called Proton. While it's better than Wine, you can't play all games. Many seem to work well after finding the right version of Proton.
I had zero luck with Proton with my games, on the other hand. I support the cause, though, and hope one day I can make the switch.
Most games anyways. There's issues with anti-cheats being incompatible, intentionally or not. And some Microsoft titles are becoming incompatible with anything outside of the Windowsphere.
Instead of worrying about the few reminding Windows 7 users we should be more worried about the insanely high requirements of 11 and all the pain the end of 10 will bring.
It's not that hard to get Win 11 to install. Even if you do it the way they want, it really just comes down to converting your partition to GPT and turning on secure boot in the Bios, then running in UEFI rather than legacy. But there's also work arounds for this BS too. Personally i wanted to use ReBar so at that point I figured I may as well complete the other steps that Rebar didn't need and go to Win11.
It's had enough time now to Iron out the bugs
Waiting for win12 or whatever the next one is. Historically, only every other windows OS had been good. (XP good, Vista Bad, 7 good, 8 bad, 10 good, 11bad.)
Windows requirements are easy to bypass and those who can't are probably tech illiterates. Microsoft knows this and they will probably never give any effort to enforcing these requirements except not giving any support to any bypassed devices (nobody even gets support from Microsoft for any problems in their Windows device so it really doesn't matter)
They know that people who actually want to bypass those requirements, are going to bypass it one way or another. Trying to add any barricade to a OS that's stitched together with spaghetti code is just not worth it and even if it was, hackers would still find a way to bypass it.
Though that's a minority and generally tech illiterates are gonig to cash into the Microsoft ecosystem.
@@GregoryShtevensh Not the point. I was "forced" to use Win11 with my new laptop. Thinking that my previous Desktop-PC (Win10) was more than fine with 16GB of RAM, I didn't give it much thought. Now after boot Win11 uses 7-8GB of RAM, with no programs running. Open a browser with 2-3 tabs: -2GB. Run Steam in the Background: -1.5GB. And suddenly that 16GB looks very small. Not considering the 2.5 GB that is reserved for "Hardware"?
So the base requirement of the operating system is already crippling my system. On Windows 7 you could get away with 8GB of RAM and didn't run into any problems. Now that is the minimum to even run the OS??
Are you referring to account log in or the silly tpm stuff?
Software developer here: there are cases where it's not really in your hand to support legacy systems anymore. For example, the CEF library (browser engine from Chrome; used by quite a lot of applications for UI and web rendering) dropped support for any Windows version older than Win 10 from release 110 onwards. And by dropping support I mean it doesn't work anymore because they use Windows API functionality that is simply not available in older Windows versions. You can check the Win32 API docs for the minimum required versions of each function, so that's usually something that doesn't come as a surprise.
Even if your applications would be fine running on older Windows, updating your dependencies might bring you into a situation where it just doesn't work anymore. Not a singleline of your code changed, but still broken. If you have something like CEF, which is basically a web browser, you also don't want to stick with legacy versions for too long. There can be security concerns, lack of features, unfixed bugs, sometimes even compliance requirements. Manually maintaining an older version is usually a lot of work and may require a dedicated team, therefore that's not really an alternative.
By the way, the current Steam version ships with CEF version 85.0.x, so that's quite an old version dating back to 2020. Updating this to version 110+ would be a hard reason for not being able to support any Windows older than Win10. Normally, if you don't have an online application, you could just stick with the version that worked last and forget about all future updates (unless there's security-related stuff maybe, but yeah, own risk then). But for online services that can be a problem because of changes in the backend. If the client version is becoming too old it might not be able to properly communicate with the backend anymore. That could be mitigated to some extend by keeping legacy interfaces available but of course that's (most of the time) a cost factor. Testing/validation on legacy systems is not only an additional cost factor, but it might also end up in real issues, like try to get suitable hardware that runs Windows 7 without any problems (buying used PCs off of ebay is not an option for most companies).
We wouldn't be in this situation if we would just get the good old game files and run them but that time is long gone. Unfortunately, the concept of digital distribution is not about actually owning a product.
people is ignorant, they only think in themselves but nobody thinks in developers... W7 died a looooong time ago and people had time plenty of time to catch up... sorry not sorry. DOWNVOTES TO ME
I might be ignorant. But wouldn't it be a matter of just splitting of into a new branch, at the time og not wanting to support windows 7 anymore on your game.
Letting the windows 7 version stay Downloadable, but discontinuing all development on it. Hence people who bought the game for their windows 7 machine can still play it in the state it is ultimo 2023.
I done understand how that would incur any loss for you as a game developer.
Some games on steam already have multiple legacy versions to choose from under download options.
So it's also something that steam has allowed in the past.
To be clear, I know its a different matter for valve/steam. I'm only commenting on the game developer aspect of this, as I understand is your posts focus.
@@Sir_Astral That really is one of the most spoiled comments I've ever read.
For many people upgrading to windows 10 and especially windows 11, requires a completely new computer. Something many people all over the world vant afford.
Not that it makes a difference, but I have a steam library north of 1000 games, that I've bought over the past 21 years or so. I have 3 kids, all with their own computers and steam account, and their own games. Some of those, I also have on my own account meaning I've bought multiple copies of the game.
Personally I could just upgrade the OS, and if necessary the hardware.
But not everybody can.
The thing is, that we've bought games fitting the hardware and software we own. And then suddenly everything is made obsolete, unless we spend more money. Not by the game devs, but by the store where we bought the game.
When steam first launched, one of their marketing gimics were, that if we bought games on valves new platform, we would never risk misplacing or damaging our physical copy of our games, and hence would never loose access to our collection. Every game in one place.
Now they have arbitrarily decided, that if we can't afford the hardware or software that they find is the new norm. Our games are lost.
If you bought a pair of jeans, and then suddenly you were told by the shop where you bought them, that you weren't allowed to wear them any more, unless you bought a new belt. I bet you would feel different on the matter.
And you would probably think, that that random guy was a jackass, who said that it was your own fault, because those jeans were out of fashion years ago.
We would have a somewhat different discussion, if somehow steam/valve went out of business. But this thing, just feels wrong in every way.
@@soul0360 well you are kind of right. It is impossible to do it for an online game, unless somewhat you allow them to play offline. Also in a multiplayer game you will need all players to be in the same version or downgrade the game to the lowest game version a player in the party has. In theory its possible but in that case you might end up with also a lot of "legacy" versions, one for w7, another for w8, in 2025 for w10 and so on... You already know that new versions allow bugfixes that if you keep your games in older versions your game will still bugged or unbalanced... The same way when back on time you bought a game in a CD-rom and you had to manually update it. But its a risk to take if you want to keep the old version of course. I think indie companies cant afford the trouble, and big companies just dont care.
@@Sir_Astral I was hoping for an answer to those questions from the OP, who is a software developer.
You have in your initial comment proved that you have no idea how this whole thing works, or even understand what people are concerned about. But for discussions sake.
Of course any multilayer game, that requires official server will not be playable, as soon as the devs close the servers. That is a whole other discussion. One that also had a solution in the old days, where games also included server software, letting people run their own servers.
As to Legacy versions. As mentioned. Steam and a lot of game devs already provide access to specific legacy builds. Something that to my understanding, for the devs, only requires deprecating a development branch. And letting it stay available on steam. And for steam requires storage space, as well as bandwidth when people download that version.
BUG fixes, that is not what people are asking for. Anyone who have ever owned a physical copy of a game understands, that the devs aren't obligated to continue development, past the point when you bought the game. That's what is meant, when in the video it's mentioned, that people only expect to be able to run the game in the state it was, on the system it was originally played on.
Fun fact: Steam does have an off line mode to allow you to play your downloaded library. This may prohibit online multiplayer but shouldn't affect local multiplayer and solo gameplay.
Offline mode has a timer that will lock you out after some period without connecting to Steam
@@stupidburp there is no timer, stop lying. If you know the password you can play games anytime in steam offline mode.
@@vertik7as long as your game doesn't require online in order to activate it. I play a single player rts game (Warhammer 3) if I restart my PC, I'll have to log into steam online, load the game, and let it run, before I can switch to offline mode again.
@@vertik7yes there is, games like just cause, far cry all have a timer if don't go online you won't be able to play after some days/weeks.
If a dev wants the game to work without steam, they can do so. Every game that uses steam as drm does so at the devs requests, not steams.
I think its not fully a valve issue and more of a microsoft issue. As microsoft dropped support for these systems, Valve would also be forced to drop support as more and more issues surface. Its also why Valve made a move to support proton so that they wouldnt have to be dependent on whatever decision microsoft makes.
Valve took the nuclear option - drop support with no replacement, making the games launchable. What valve should do is provide a minimum viability launcher that just does the DRM and nothing else.
@@corgano6068SteamCmd exists. It's just steam on a command line, without the webbrowser
Yeah, I switched to Linux a few months ago and it's going great. Every game I've played so far works perfectly; don't see a reason to stay on windows anymore
yeah the only games i had trouble with (with respect to win 10 updates) were microsoft ones, minecraft and forza horizon
It's not Microsoft issue, it's Google issue. Steam client is based on Chromium and they drop the support because Chromium does.
GOG is a very good alternative to Steam. I still use Steam for 99% of my games, but GOG just offers a different kind of service that actually lets you own your games.
How does GoG differ from Steam in that regard really? Both Steam and GoG can ban/suspend your account, revoke the products you bought, etc. Neither of them forces DRM. GoG just forces noDRM and that's it.
They like to brag how they "let you own your games", but are they really different? I actually switched from GoG back to Steam, because Valve at least cares about Linux as a gaming platform, while GoG doesn't even provide a client for Linux.
That's why I still made a gog account.
What does GOG do better that steam doesn't do? Any game that's DRM free on GOG is DRM free on steam so I don't really see the value add to use GOG over steam
i buy old pc games on disc. have done for years
I love GOG. The problem is that in general developers tend to treat GOG releases as second fiddle, often not releasing the latest patches or DLC. I would recommend you use GOG as its original name declared, for buying good old games that you don't expect will need any ongoing support. Some mods being exclusive to steam workshop is another factor.
The Steam client can be started in offline mode. This requires you disconnect the PC from the internet before launching the Steam client. This will prevent updates and allow you continue using already installed software and games. Now that also depends on the games and if they require an online connection.
doesnt work forever without tweaks
I'm in the same boat as this guy. I have a great Alienware M17x laptop that I loved for many years - and I've got tons of Steam games on it, including ones that don't play well on my current-gen laptop. I really wish Steam would provide something akin to a very cut-down launcher that would allow me to play anything that already exists in my local Steam library, even if it's only in offline mode. That would make me feel so much better about continuing to buy from them! And btw I also continue to play games regularly on my Pentium III desktop PC with Win98SE, as it almost feels "magic" that the really old stuff still works in today's world where you no-longer own anything.
Same here. My most used box has a 10+yr old install of win7. It has around 100 processes running and sits between 0% - 1% system resources used idling on the desktop with a browser full of tabs. The uptime is typically measured in months (the time between power outages). In all that time I can probably count the times it has crashed on both hands, and half of those were self inflicted. It's a stable rig that still feels snappy on the desktop and does what I need it to do. (Typical stuff... CAD, 3d printing, media editing/watching, Browsing, Games, Comms, etc) It just works.
We have a couple of win10 machines and they are slower (on faster hardware), glitchier, more crash prone, and I find the interface mostly annoying. The forced updates in the middle of a session are enough to make me want to throw the f'n thing out the window. It's like the updates sit there lurking, waiting for a time you actually want to use the computer instead of running at 2am when there's no user activity.
I like win11 even less, which is to say not at all, followed by a large string of expletives and some expressive gestures. This is coming from someone who has bought many copies of every version of windows since 3.11.
My machines are slowly getting migrated over to Debian as time permits. If I'm going to be forced to upgrade, I might as well upgrade to an OS that doesn't try to make me the product. In testing, my meager Steam collection mostly runs on linux. It also runs most of my ancient stuff on cd/dvd with some tweaking. It's not perfect but at this point leaving a few fps on the floor is infinitely preferable to the malware that windows has become.
Same here. My Alienware 13t R1 runs 8.1 and it's purpose is for games that don't run well on 10. Unless there is an alternative I'll lose access to tons of retro games.
Louis, you have to remember that Steam is mostly a reskinned Chromium web browser. Therefore, if Chromium drops support there's nothing Valve can really do other than to follow or to rewrite their client completely to use a different browser or a completely custom front end.
They use the same page that you visit in the browser or in the Steam client.
if that's the case, they can indeed make it work. hell, it should be easier as you don't need to keep updating the client if it's just a fancy, website proprietary browser.
@@joebleed Not updating a browser is a major security risk
@@TheFeelTrain It's really not in this case. The user doesn't have control over the "browser" (that, by the way, doesn't actually exist), so either the user's system would need to be compromised or Steam's own services, and browser security is downstream of either, so irrelevant in this case.
@@thecakeredux it's not irrelevant in this case. The new steam interface is an electron app which just like discord is basically a skinned chromium browser.
They do for security purposes want to keep it up to date to get newer electron + chromium features (such as better hardware acceleration for newer hardware; especially on Linux). Since Valve does not control these components they depend upon, if upstream they decide to end support for EOL'd OSes that's not Valve's fault, unless you want to say it's their fault that they didn't write all the libraries, GUI's and frameworks from scratch.
If you think they should've done everything from scratch... Well let's just say I much prefer Valve's engineers working on Proton rather than reinventing the wheel over and over again by writing a new browser engine, new UI frameworks etc...
@@davidbuddy Minor correction it is CEF not Electron but everything you said still applies.
It also does act as a browser, complete with showing the URL in the main window. I'm not sure if the main window can navigate to external links, maybe if you click on one in the discussions. But there is also the browser in the overlay which definitely can visit any link like a normal browser.
Irony here is they are actually going out of their way to patch every game to run on Linux and the amount of playable games have exploded in the past year there really only seem to be issues with certain games who refuse linux support and use anti cheat software to prevent it (destiny 2) as an example
Destiny 2 is a dumpster of a game so it's not a whole lot of missing out.
No they only do that for modern Linux, so it's equivelant. Do you want to try running those games on any Linux that hasn't been updated since 2006? Good luck.
Basically any computer made after the 1990s can run modern linux, so steam will be able to run.
Rename it Density 2 then .
Yeah, the guy in that Steam thread is definitely a jackass.
Although the files of games that are downloaded from steam are accessible and most of them run fine on Linux, I do think it is totally understandable that someone would want to launch the older games on the operating system and hardware that they where made for without having to jump through extra hoops considering that a good chunk of games try to launch steam when they are started. Something like a legacy version of steam just to launch the games that may use it as drm would be useful.
Some games, once downloaded, can be launched without Steam. My guess is that most of them can be. A bit messy, but at least you can still play.
High time for someone to write a legacy launcher. Wouldn't be hard to do.
I think it's sensible to not expect steam support for an os that their developer is not supporting anymore.
If you intend on using an unsupported os you should use it offline only so install steam and all your games and go offline, pretty sure you'll be able to play them just fine. But if you want to stay on steam online and keep adding to your library and not have all your games from library installed at all times, then you should upgrade.
Exactly this.
You won't. You will be able to play SOMe games, but almost all triple A games won't work without steam libraries properly loaded and connected to the server.
@@conelord1984 But that is not steams fault. They don't force you to call their API upon starting the game. It's entire the choice of the developers to design it in a way you could run it outside of steam.
@@prayhe But the games were bought from Steam, not from the developer directly. Steam is the party that provides the API neccesary for the DRM, not the developer. They chose to sell these games to the customer, so unless there was explicitly some sort of waiver that says "this game is DRM-protected, hence we bear no responsibility over your abiility to run it", seems like they're very much involved in the issue.
It would be a different story if the developers inserted DRM that relies entirely on their own system with their own servers and then proceeded to shut it down. In that scenario, Steam could only be faulted if they explicitly stated that the games they sell can't have an outsider DRM.
@@MrCh0ono steam does not provide the API. You have it wrong
Thank you for bringing the issue to a mainstream platform. Valve should definitely see this video as they are generally seen as pro-consumer. Even Gabe Newell himself once was quoted as essentially saying that if Steam were to ever go out of business, there will be a "killswitch" in place that would make your games functional without Steam. In these dark times of anti-consumer moves from large corporations, it's almost too good to be true to hear nowadays. I hope at least Gabe sees this video.
Sadly the 3rd party DRM will be an Issue but at least all Balve games will be DRM free wit the Kill switch.
@@silverhawkscape2677 that's your problem with the game developer, most indies are actually drm-free even under steam
@@silverhawkscape2677 All Valve games, really? How many are they? 10, 30? Let's say it's 50 games. That's 50 games over hundreds of thousands. Most people have at least a few thousand dollars libraries, that's money down the drain.
@@fltfathinthat's your problem... _because you buy on Steam._ You should either buy on GOG or physical. Yes, physical. Those same developers that impose DRMs on PC, also sell their games physically on consoles.
@@silverhawkscape2677
FWIW, the majority of games on Steam actually only use Steams' platform DRM, which is basically the most minor form of DRM there has ever been.
big AAA style publisher games and such ofcourse add their own DRM in on top of that, but you'd actually be surprised how many games that are Hosted by Steam have very little DRM.
This is more a problem of CEF dropping support for Windows 7/8, therefore Steam has no other choice here. You can blame Google for that.
Why do they need to use chromium?
Hahahahahahahaha, what a stupid thing to say
@@zolikoff Because the whole steam client is an electron app, its a browser and needs to be kept up to date to stay secure.
@@Voyajer. Yeah why don't they make their own app to provide the features they need for themselves? It's a damn desktop application, at least it's supposed to be. I get it, that's more work, but you can't say "they have no other choice".
@@zolikoff This is how Valve is passing the buck.
"Don't blame us, WE'RE not the ones doing this it's Google's fault"
They can make their own branch of Chromium, but they don't want to.
I think people don't read the rules they accept when creating an account.
1. They can ban you if they feel like it and you accepted this.
2. They can remove games from your library and you accepted this.
3. They can ban your account even if there is 500$ on it and you can't have it back AND you accepted this.
4. They won't provide you any backups etc and the games are LOCKED to your steam account, meaning you don't own any game.
Sadly each sudio feels like they need to release their games on Steam...
This is the great thing about GOG, you can optionally install a game without a launcher being involved. If Valve actually goes through with this, I'd look over there for potentially getting games from, because it's not going to magically not work with older versions of Windows. You can even play XP era games on Windows XP, if you opt for that standalone.
This is more of an issue with Chromium and Electron at this point, because most game clients are glorified web apps nowadays. I do think that an older version of Steam (that retains the old VGUI system before they did the library overhauls) being available for legacy users, similar to the workarounds that used to exist, would be a nice thing to have for legacy systems, but at this rate, you're better off installing Linux rather than dealing with Windows 7 or 8's lack of software support. WINE (one of the main components of Proton) has a better time playing some older games than attempting to run them on modern day Windows (Even after accounting for compatibility mode), and software support on Linux is WAY better than what it was like ten years ago. You'd be hard-pressed to find anything that supports XP nowadays, because it's a security risk and old versions of Chromium and Electron that do support those operating systems are full of security holes that have been patched long ago. Likewise, 7 is a operating system from nearly 15 years ago, and 8 was something nobody liked to use (Although it's touch interface felt better than any further attempts from Microsoft).
And with Microsoft stopping support for Windows 10 soon, I'm already hearing that there's people claiming they're going to move to Linux, where software updates are generally way better for old hardware. But there's a catch, the real question is if Linux distributions are going to fix some of the jank with their packages (and Valve fixes some issues with Proton, especially in regards to getting third-party mods running) before this influx happens. I've tried daily driving Linux, and getting game mods working is such a pain, and that's before even getting to other software. Some distributions have performance issues in some games (Quake runs way better on Arch compared to Nobara/Fedora or Ubuntu from my experience). Ubuntu/Debian is such a pain to use (looking directly at it's package manager and Ubuntu forcing snaps on users) and lacks a bunch of gaming related features (Like VRR support in GNOME), Fedora is a mess (especially with Red Hat's recent mishaps, the telemetry stuff they're doing, and the codec situation), Nobara has stability problems despite that generally being your best bet for something that just works, and Arch (your best choice for performance and features) has such a steep learning curve where most software can only be accessed in the AUR (Which in turn requires cloning yay from Github, compiling it, and installing it before using), and where a ton of common sense tweaks that are done on other distros aren't done for you on Arch. The Steam Deck's software stack just works (Hopefully Valve releases SteamOS 3 to the public soon, HoloISO has some stability problems), even if Valve could do with updating the version of KDE Plasma being used alongside making Wayland the default in desktop mode (So VRR support and soon HDR, just works). I realistically don't see these same vocal people moving to Linux, just like what happened with users being forced to use Windows 10.
I can kind of see where people are coming from, but there's a ton of technicalities that get in the way. If you can hunt down a version of Firefox that supports XP on the Internet Archive, HTTPS and such is still being used, so you can technically still use it. I don't see why Valve can't just give a tweaked version of their legacy launchers as an option for old operating systems that can still connect to the internet.
Garuda is based on Arch and designed to be easy. I use the Mate version.
Game mods experience is identical to Windows for me, been maining Arch linux for 6 years
"Ubuntu/Debian is such a pain to use"
Debian is a great distro, as are many of its children. How do you not understand apt and use GNU/Linux? Don't lump Ubuntu in with Debian, either; they share a base, but Ubuntu is quite different with regards to maintenance/maintainers and ideas. You might as well say CentOS is exactly the same as RHEL (with all the lockout and anticonsumer stuff Red Hat is doing now).
@@encycl07pedia- i pity you for wasting the time to read all of that and then taking such a selective defensive stance because of it. xD
@@Chriserino Some people read faster than others. I'm sorry that you don't have the attention span to read a RUclips comment.
Steam has 3rd-party dependencies that already don't support 7, such as Chromium. Things like PCI compliance are likely forcing them to update the client to a newer version of Chromium and drop support for older OSes to protect CC data.
I believe you can still grab old steam client to use on Vista. Not XP though because it doesn't support TLS 1.2.
Not to mention that as part of the change, they also made massive updates and improvements to their app, and added proper hardware acceleration support for Linux and MacOS.
So it's not like they're not trying.
@@fishy2939 lol get a life
@@fishy2939 Based. What's stopping you from making your W7 completely identify as W10, though?
This effectively already happened before when we moved to x64 from win32. You can kind of see the same issue more cleanly with GOG where you don't have to employ the client at all. Even if you do "own the game", if the game itself no longer supports the platform you have an issue. Then, with Steam, it also has to support the platform that the Steam Client itself runs on.
First, Stream works on Linux and has for a long time. A simple option enables use of all Windows games on Linux. Not perfect, but most things work great.
As for the announcement, let's make something clear: Steam uses Electron, which is related to the Chromium project. That project dropped support for Windows 7 because it is end of life (EOL), meaning that when Valve updates the version of Electron they use there are no more security updates. They are giving 5 months notice about this.
Regarding compatibility? Most games that work on Windows 7 will work on 10, and most computers that will run Windows 7 will run 10 at this point, it's been years.
Rememeber when Steam warned that Fallout 3 would only run on Windows XP or Vista, then they removed Windows XP and Vista support from the Steam client? That was real nice.
Runs fine on Linux via proton
@@thespider7898 That's nice, but not relevant to the point.
Fallout 3 has been updated to run perfectly fine on Windows 10/11. I've been doing yet another play through and had no issues.
@@FoxBlocksHere My point is that this is a uniquely Windows problem, and there are alternatives to the Windows experience.
@@thespider7898 Yes, I understand that.
I totally agree that Steam should ship DRM free versions of the game as GOG does. But the update does not force you to play games on Windows 10/11 though. You can very likely still play your games on any Linux distribution and as a software developer, I don't think there's any reason to support Windows 7 anymore... that decision has been made by Microsoft already.
Steam does ship many DRM free games, although some do still have DRM. I can take many of my steam games and literally just copy them onto a flash drive and they will work anywhere, even on a machine without steam.
DRM is the main reason other publishers ever started selling their games on Steam in the first place.
@@djzanderoni6095 If that's the case for the users games, there shouldn't be a problem then, I assume. But I guess, it won't work for all games. So after all it would be better to have access to all games DRM-free. But in many cases these days, publishers will ship their own annoyances anyway.
@djzanderoni6095 That's entirely on the developer though. GOG has an ethos where every game is (supposed to be) DRM free.
Increasingly, those games on Linux are the Windows versions running on Proton and not a native Linux version.
One of the big problems with trying to force people to upgrade their OS to a newer version (and more spyware/telemetry infested one) is that some older games may simply not be compatible with the new OS. I personally have run across games on Steam that refuse to launch on a modern OS, and crash, throw errors, etc. Often, the community of players has to band together and come up with their own fixes and work-arounds, because the developer no longer exists to maintain their products. And as time goes on, this problem is only going to get worse. Effectively, by not even maintaining a basic client for installs-only on older operating systems, Steam will be BREAKING old content that people have already paid for, and effectively taking it away from us.
tbh making old games run on modern machines is the endgoal, just how emulation is, hardware dies, it's important to make thes games work on newer os' so the community doing these things will always be a good thing
What confuse than is why some older games don't work good or even wont start on Steam but that same game works good on GOG.
"One thing that we have learned is that piracy is not a pricing issue. It’s a service issue" - Gabe... Almost feels like Gabe wants people to torrent games instead of supporting Devs... At least when you torrent a game, it works for infinity.
Steam has been handling old operating systems pretty well actually, with windows XP you just needed to download an older version of the client, and it just didn't update anymore as soon as support ended. Game library still available and everything. Edit: I obviously mean the pre chromium versions, no chromium based steam version will work on XP
Shouldn't those versions then also work on Windows 7?
Not officially though. They have never made older clients officially available for download. Even if you disable the auto-updating via a simple cfg file (if it still works), there's no guarantee it'll continue to successfully connect to the Steam's servers. EA actually used to provide a limited client for Windows XP/Vista where the store functionality is disabled. Would be cool if Valve could provide a solution similar to that.
this is a windows problem. they fragmented the OS when they required future versions to detect a TPM chip.
any modern CPU has one included
This makes zero sense. What does TPM have to do with anything?
i wish microshaft never invented tpm it hurts people but they made it to spy on people
@@DanCojocaru2000 one of the 2 supported versions of windows requires TPM. If you dont have a TPM you cannot smoothly upgrade to windows 11 even as software begins dropping support for older versions of Windows.
no this is because the boneheads at valve decided to convert the steam client into a chromium branch, meaning that whatever google stops supporting they must as well or risk being cracked
I agree with you Louis, and I think you should also discuss the "phenomenon" of computer (especially laptop) manufacturers abandoning support for previous versions of MS Windows - e.g. new laptops from ASUS, Lenovo, Dell, etc. only being available for purchase with Windows 11 installed (no option to choose buying the laptop with a previous Windows) AND ONLY having WIndows 11 drivers available from the manufacturer/vendor support sites.
Your cats always make the videos so warm and relaxing lol
Incidentally, Valve does have employees working full time to "update every game" to work on Linux, most of them work already. With regards to the client software, this is an issue with Chromium rather than Valve.
It may also be interesting to you to find out that a LOT of games don't actually function on modern versions of windows because of holes in their own compatibility solutions, and this has even been an issue between major service packs on windows.
The game from 1997 not working in 2027 has already a thing for some time now.
the compatibility issues are generally related to old DRM systems relying on windows security holes that have now been patched. outside of that, backwards compatibility on windows is leagues better than linux or god forbit, mac.
You will be shocked how good Proton is now. Im a Linux steam gamer and have been for years.
What is amazing is my old Windows games library works great on steam using Proton unlike Windows.
@retrobeatsthey also made an hardware to go along with it :))
@retrobeatsIsn't that just Steam OS?
Sometimes I wish they'd have a group of developers working towards ditching Chromium on the Steam client.
It would be cool if Valve would release a "Steam Legacy" for old computers, designed for Windows XP - 7 that has the old "Army green" skin, and it be mostly functional to a client from 2009, and only have access to games released up to 2013 and below. One could dream.
If we don't fight for consumer rights, soon this will happen to anything we thought we actually bought, this is the next step after trying to prevent us from repairing products we bought.
I accepted this compromise when I started spending money on Steam for non-Valve titles. I knew that one day Steam wouldn't be around to honor their end of the deal any longer, and that I would have no recourse for this. While I've consistently turned down most of the subscription services in my life, I accepted it with Steam because of the enormous value it provides to me. That said, I am a little disappointed that they're not offering to let us stay on the old version and continue launching our older games.
I will be taking the opportunity to push myself into the Linux world. There have been great strides in Linux gaming in recent years with Valve's involvement. I know I'll lose a lot of my library, but most of what I actually play are simpler games, and many of those don't require Steam to be running to launch their executables. It won't just be Windows 7 that gets forced out. The rest of their ecosystem can go with it. Windows has been reduced to spyware.
Steam's Proton has improved so much over the years that you could play most games on linux (especially the older titles!)
@@gregory7572 you won't lose that much in terms of single player games because you could always virtualize windows. Multiplayer games like cod or r6 will block you from playing because of their anti vm anti cheat
@@joe564338 anticheat for linux is a work in progress, but is being worked on
They can keep their anti-cheat and other invasive DRM. I don't play those games anyway.
Side note. My roommate has been trying to get his CoD game to install on his XB1 for the past two days. It's such a joke on consoles too.
While Proton can certainly make DRM titles more accessible, certain third-party DRM solutions don't function on Linux. That is probably what OP is referring to.
I want to clarify something
Steam DOES let you run its launcher without internet via autonomous mode, and every game you've downloaded which don't require other software(like EA's own launcher) will work
I had to deal with no internet for a month, and I was playing Left4Dead 2 the whole time
I heard that only lasts for 30 days before you need to reconnect to the net... Or am I mistaken there?
@@GregoryShtevensh I'm not sure about Steam, but it is the case for Spotify
Yes exactly the thing that these big brain people can't get. This is why I won't be buying games with extra launchers ( or even Epic Games if they don't sort their offline mode issues ).
@@GregoryShtevensh A few years ago I had it turned on for 2-3 months during a trip. Haven't tried it recently.
Just a friendly reminder that GOG gives you an offline installer for each of their games that will work even if they closed down tomorrow.
What a lot of people fail to realize is the main reason steam is dropping. Windows 7 support is webkit. The browser that steam is built on and heavily relies on is losing Windows 7 support
Who cares? Keep server support for the latest client for Windows 7. If security is an issue take the money operations from it (you can still do it through the web if you need to) and that is it.
"I love steam as much as the next cat but if you see those purchases as anything more than a glorified rental they truly are then you have bypassed the hard print entirely and are now huffing hard hype"
-Razörfist
Steam fanboys are as bad if not worse the PS/XBOX console warriors.
At least I don't have to constantly keep buying barely-changed remasters to play games on new hardware
At least I have access to the files and most Steam games are incredibly easy to crack if they even use the DRM to begin with (it is not a given)
Assuming Valve sticks to their word, which, given their track record, I currently choose to believe, if Valve goes under, then all games on steam will have any/all DRM solutions removed and provided to their customers in any case they can.
Now, Valve the company will likely outlast all of the people living today, so it's unlikely that if/when this clause is ever relevant, they'll honour it. But under the current management, looking at all Valve is currently doing, I think it's fair to say that they actually care about ownership in today's day and age.
Wild guess: Steam might be using Chromium under the hood to display browser content (and probably some more uis). Chrome which is based on it stopped updates for Windows
Doesn't need to be a guess, that's fact. That is the reason.
Yup. It's a microsoft thing.
Steam on linux works perfectly, and valve is increasing support for it at a staggering rate.
Yes, steam uses CEF, and that is precisely what the steam support page says:
"
This change is required as core features in Steam rely on an embedded version of Google Chrome, which no longer functions on older versions of Windows."
@@st.altair4936 Nothing to do with microsoft, the issue is Google.
More than likely. But it all comes down to communication. That's also all that Mr. Salty wants. If the solution is to use a very old client that does not use Chromium yet, then it might be acceptable.
When steam removed the option to disable updates for a game I went offline mode in order not to let them fuck up my modded games.
The result was that I stopped buying games from them as the shop was not working in offline mode.
Seems a more reasonable compromise would be to freeze updates and block further purchases through the w7 client.
Valve doesn't have much options because the tech they use for the client and because the tech that games run on, but they could indeed handle this better by providing a legacy offline client that only connects to the internet to check if you have new games in your library and of course to download them.
that could be used to pirate games tbh
There is also the question of whether the game publisher would allow such a thing. Games can still run on steam without requiring internet, its a game developer choice to allow it or not, and steam needs to offer that functionality in order to be a viable platform for game developers.
@@glimoreganajai2206 Authentication would still be necessary.
Aye, they would have to be careful about piracy and yeah they aren't the only party here, they have to deal with the publishers, dev studios, MS... I got the feeling they may be working on something to give a better solution and this announcement is a worst case scenario in case they don't come up with a good solution. But then again it would not surprise me if they don't come out with a good solution but if they don't people will be exploring the high seas.
@@fishy2939 It's really not that simple, although your complaints have validity to them.
The problem with this is that ever since PC gaming started moving away from CD-ROMs, it was clear that it was going to be all digital, the same thing that's been steadily happening with console gaming. To Steam's credit, the Steam Deck is Linux based & I am 100% certain they will continue investing in the Deck & making sure all the games possible, will eventually run on Linux/Deck since it's become very interwoven with their architecture. But for things bought that many years ago, yeah IDK if people will be able to access those if they were bought through a marketplace. I'm on Win 10 myself for my laptop, but it is not able to play games that aren't pretty simple because it was never designed for that.
I would hope Valve tries to make exceptions for things to still play on older OSs, but we never know.
I think it would be nice if Valve let us create offline "installable", DRM-free backup copies of games in the library. Or at least create non-Steam version of the games bought on Steam. I get it, some video games are now over 100 GB, you can't just burn it on CD/DVD, but you can store it on an external hard drive. So just let me create a backup of the game so I can install it on Win7 laptop offline. And if the game requires EA login at least I won't be able to b*tch about Steam, I'll have to take it up to EA.
For older games especially, the deck or a cheap machine with Linux is a really good alternative than running an outdated windows install.
@@mac1991seth Steam already has some functionality for backing up games like that, your idea isn't a strech, but I think most game publishers wouldn't be ok with that.
@@jonnyso1 Yeah, there is backup option, but (keep in mind I haven't used it for a while) the backup can only be opened in Steam as sort of simplified installer (?). So you still have to log in. And true, a lot of 3rd party DRMs (and game publishers) would flip out if you could legally back up your game and install it anywhere you desire in offline mode.
@@mac1991seth Valve cannot legally do that without the consent of all publishers involved.
I can appreciate the client's request. THat seems a reasonable request to allow the client to be "disabled" to an extent, but still eb allowed to play their games. At the same time, Steam is a distributor and gaming platform aggregate. You can can still play these game by launching them directly from their exe's. The client simply allows an interface to do that easier, for the most part. That being said, Valve could easily enough set it up that way and have a disclaimer that states that if they don't update their OS, the client will run but at limited functionality
Fun fact: You can force Steam to run in offline mode by default and you can block it with a firewall so it can't update. If you do need to let it online to buy or update a particular game, you can lock all the files that tell Steam if a game needs an update before you do let it connect so that they continue to work normally when you put it back behind the firewall where it belongs. I really despise this software and wish publishers would all put their games on GOG so I wouldn't need to use it.
One of the biggest problems I have with modern PC gaming is games being patched, balanced, or otherwise changed over time. I understand the concept and function of it. But I miss just having a game that you could play and it was either a good game or a bad game. Now most games will release patches, and while bug fixes are nice, they'll also at times change core mechanics or balance the game. Even with the best intentions these changes can ruin games that would have probably been fine if left alone. Lots of my steam library reflects this sentiment I feel like. It's not just a list of .exe games on my computer, it's a list of constantly changing and updating games. And that's not really what I want my game library to be
I think Early Access is the culprit here. Look at well loved classic games; they're getting fan patches even today. The roadmap/dlc treadmill is annoying, for sure.
Bluedrake42 talked about this some years ago, he pointed out that the very nature of a game at launch can be radically different after some months of updates, because as you say such updates often change much more than mere bugs. It also means reviews of games at launch may have little relevance some time later if the mechanics and gameplay change too much.
I hate how every dev nowadays has to ruin experimentation and creativity. I remember how fun it was back in the original MW2 figuring out different things you could climb on or jump to and get an advantageous shooting lane. Highrise was one of my all time favorites for that.
Now they just patch that stuff so quick because they only want you to play the exact way they want you to.
@@malloc7108 I don't think you can blame early access for this. It's just a consequence of games being able to patch and update online. Many games have a full, non-early access release, and still change dramatically afterwards. In fact, I would say that most full games these days release broken with the intent to fix things later on.
With an early access game, you at least know that the game is incomplete when you get it.
This should just be the option to keep the day one version for games that have a single player/offline mode
I will forever be amused by the fact that on Windows 10, unless you patch it, Trackmania Nations Forever just produces a completely white screen, and yet if you play the same exact game on Linux, an OS the game never supported, with Steam's very own Proton compatibility layer, and no manual patching, there is no white screen.
Have you tried the new Trackmania?
@@BearZA_91 That's not relevant. The whole point of the video is being 'forced' to upgrade/change your things because someone else said so.
This is because Valve REALLLLYYY wants people to shift to Linux and that's what they're putting all their support, time, and money into.
And in fairness, they're not wrong.
I haven't had that issue yet
this is false it runs without patches on stock windows 10
Please correct me if i am wrong but last time i had no internet connection i could launch steam in offline mode and start games that not inherently use always online modes.
I went to GoG for a few reasons. One was that I will have backups for my games - two they can run without the client and steam also gets their own share of data.
But the worst is forced updates. E.g. there was a version of Civ6 that I really liked. I noticed in some patch notes, that it will get removed and I disabled updates and played in in offline mode for a year. After that year Steam up an update and would not allow to run the "outdated" game, that I played solo without a single crash.
The only downside is that the Companies treat their GoG customers like ****. Even remarks on crashes are met with "works on steam" - Bug is fixed on Steam etc.
(Outside all the in-game currency, 0-day DLC, requires third Party account to play, requires online connection, ... so many anti-consumer practices and Steam allows them because profit. They are big enough that they could enforce some pro-consumer rules.
Steam support should be more clear that the client and the games dependent on it won't run on Windows 7, but they should also mention SteamOS as an alternative for people who don't want to run Windows 10+. Almost every game I've tried to run on it has worked fine, and most of those are older games.
it's scary that old windows games run better on linux than windows
Yeah. It got me as well. Proton works incredibly well. If it wasn't for my remote job requirements, I would have upgraded my PC to a Linux distro a good while ago.
@YME I agree. Windows 7 support being dropped was definitely inevitable, and many other developers quit supporting it already. It's just the life cycle of Windows.
Steam itself is a form of DRM, which relies on an internet connection in order to collect and verify your licenses -- it does also have an offline mode once you've signed in at least once though. All this is in the terms and conditions, and is generally how client works and _always_ has worked. If the client stops supporting the OS, you need to upgrade. Sure they can create legacy versions but then they have to manage and maintain so many other releases for obsolete insecure systems it's just not worth the hassle.
The cause of this case though isn't entirely Valve's fault, it's partly due to the fact that Steam is powered by Chrome(and webkit). If the developers drop support for the OS on a newer build of the Chrome backend, then newer Steam builds that rely on it won't be compatible either. That's just how dependencies work. Linux is the same. Newer packages get installed and they aren't always compatible with the older ones so they need to be updated too.
Steam OS is currently not available for regular PCs, only the Steam Deck. Valve mentioned a long time ago they are working on a regular PC build and it will eventually become available. At the moment the best bet would be a distribution like Linux Mint or Ubuntu
So, switch to a completely different operating system? That isn't helpful, and SteamOS 3.0 is a terrible version of Arch for doing anything more than play games.
@@liblevi45s53 I didn't realize there wasn't an official build yet when I left this comment, and that certainly limits the official advice Steam support can provide, but there is HoloISO as an unofficial option for those desperate for an alternative to Windows 10.
I remember that one time Gaben said that if Steam ever went down, they'd make sure you could download all your games DRM free so you would truly own them. I wonder if that is actually legally binding and if any defunct digital game store ever did that when it closed down.
Owning them is not exactly the same as being able to play them, especially on PC lol.
@@YeeLeeHaw Stallman pfp
The Wii U, 3DS and PSP stores: "Are we a joke to you?"
You can still download and play your owned games from those stores, based on what Gaben has done for the past almost 30 years I believe him when he said that especially since other stores have already done it.
and you believed him...
@@YeeLeeHaw linux is for noobs
They stop support, but you can still install them using the Steam Client tools. The question is why should a company support its software forever?
I believe there needs to be more information before we jump to a conclusion. You are right about the possibly "out of touch" issue. What I think is happening here is Customer Service are clueless. It will be interesting to see what transpires after your expose.
The steam client would need to be able to run to download and install the games, and that is certainly part of problem, but if the games are downloaded somewhere, and assuming they are not 'always online' games you can run then via their executable without having steam app running, with all the steam services disabled and, i assume, even if you uninstalled steam.
I buy on GOG. They have more interesting games than I can play in a lifetime.
I also bought games on gog-games
And they run better, especially the old ones. I got fNV on GOG and it runs smoother than the steam one and I can make a easily portable copy because GOG has no DRM. It's handy because I've spent like 50 hours modding and I want to have a backup in case anything goes haywire.
True, but I've been in an online fight with this guy scoffing at GOG and ended up testing and investigating if the games he was mentioning were not running on XP and turns out... he was right:
Crysis, despite the ideal condition being playing on a DX10-able OS like 7 came in retail with the minimum requirement of Windows XP, so it should have support for DX9. On XP all it opens is a command prompt window for half a second before it closes and nothing happens. Nothing on PCgamingwiki explains it, but I came to the conclusion GOG might have removed the DX9 support cause when I tested the game on Windows 7 I added the "-dx9" command to force the game to run under DX9... it still booted through DX10 ignoring the command.
Another one claimed to not work on XP was the classic Star Wars Battlefront, and yeah, it gave me an error window that it was "not a valid win32 application". Looking at that same wiki I realized both GOG and Steam versions of the game do NOT work with XP cause the multiplayer replacement for GameSpy is the Galaxy API from GOG Galaxy, which itself I think only runs on Windows 7 and above (if they didn't drop 7 already)
This not to mention Worms, which runs on DOSBox when installed through their offline installer, does not include the executable files for audio setup and to run the game, only DOSBox, and if you're trying to play it on original hardware, you're gonna get horrible performance as a result cause you're likely forcing a Pentium 2 or Pentium 3 pc running Windows 98 to run hardware emulation that itself is running Worms.
Also, my biggest pet peeve, GOG's release of Dungeon Keeper 1 removed the DK95 executable, which was the mode I ran the game on back in physical.
GOG power users are getting a bit tired of seeing the butchered results and not having access to the fat that the company trimmed off their releases and I can't blame them despite myself adapting (cause my objective is keeping old stuff running on up to date OSes as much as possible)
I like that GOG even parches older games to keep them running.
@DieWeltIstSchlecht
Same, even if Galaxy stopped supporting Win7 too.
Luckily it's not mandatory, but in the future you could lose some features (multiplayer, client achievs, cloud saves, etc).
Hopefully, GOG will start considering Linux when I'll have to make the switch (alas).
...you never did own your games with Steam. That's why people hated it SO BAD for those first 2-3 years. But once they got the CDN issues sorted out and it was 'easy' to own games, people stopped caring as much because it would be > 15 years before they did their first big push of 'taking games away'. Cracks for steam, and linux gaming, are to a point now, where...even I realize I can play almost any game I want on linux and just not worry about the fact that win 10/11 are crap and 7 is the last good windows.
r.i.p. win7
Any games that are installed into the Steam-folder by Steam you can play without the client running. As long as you pre-install any game you ever want to play before Steam is updated - it's still possible to play those games. There are some compatibility issues I've run across, ie. I can't run Fallout 3 on my Win10 laptop as the program doesn't recognize my graphics-card. Thus one example for me is to Fallout 3 on Fallout 4's game engine when the modders have completed the project.
Great content as always Louis!
".....So let the black flag mean nothing, except your allegiance to mans natural freedoms."
Just one more reason to support devs that give you multiple ways to download their game. Factorio devs for example allow you to download the game directly from their website so you can always keep a local copy without having to go through a third party launcher. I think it's shitty that steam chose to cancel 7 support but don't forgot that devs choose to tie themselves to it by choice.
If a game comes out on gog and steam I'm going to be choosing the gog version for the standalone installs.
One could make the argument their website then acts as their own custom launcher, but I digress.
If people no longer own the things that they buy, we should all stop buying things until we do.
Steam has an offline mode and one of the devs confirmed that the way it was designed, you can keep a version of Steam in offline more permanently without any issues.
Except one: being able to download games you've already bought. I don't know if that will be doable with an outdated client.
Supposedly this forced migration is due to something in Chromium requiring win 10/11 (Steam is Chromium based) tho that sounds a lot like Valve passing the buck.
Whatever, all I use Steam for these days is controller support for my old PS1 controller in games that expect an Xbox 360 controller and screenshots.
_"I find your current operating system's lack of security disturbing."_
Welcome to the Darth Vader century for consumer products.
Win 10s Telemetry was backported to 7 with one of the last Updates. There is No Telemetry free Version of Windows.
There is a CLI version of Steam client for developers called SteamCMD. It's similar to Derrod's Legendary CLI launcher (for bloated epic games launcher) but more limited in terms of features and documentation. If it was enhanced and open sourced by Valve, one could create a GUI (just like how Rare or Heroic launchers are GUI forks of CLI Legendary launcher) on top of that CLI launcher.
The problem with OSS developers is that they have no taste and their software looks like dogsh*t 99% of the time compared to the proprietary counterparts.
Well, unless you spend months and months of customizing everyday and fixing bugs yourself, not getting anything productive done in your spare time.
@@l4kr it's not that FOSS people don't have taste. It's that FOSS projects usually don't have a resident UI/UX person to work on the project for a long time
@@l4kr Thanks for your informed opinion.
@@l4kr On one hand: Corporations with hundreds of (paid) developers.
and on the other: Volunteers (developers) trying their best without pay in their free time.
It's only natural that those (underfunded and understaffed) projects done by volunteers look and feel less polished. Maybe try donating and/or contributing to the code base next time.
@@l4kr Why don't you come and help make nice UI in OSS then? I'm sure you have plenty of free time to make the same experience that a team of dedicated UX people could do.
Yup, i have been frustrayed with Steam for a similar reason for years. Some developers (square enix) force you to log on every two weeks to play a single player, offline game or Steam will block you from launching it. This has been going on for years. Smdh
It's not valve dropping support, but Google. Since CEF (chrome embedded framework) is used for the steam client web browser and overlay web browser it is needed. They could just switch web display technologies, or make a fork that is compatible.
GOG is an amazing alternative for Steam. No DRM and offline installers are just superb.
I just use FitGirl
Yep. Unless you have the offline installers, you do not truly "own" the game.
Was looking for a mention of GOG on here - a place where you can still own a game, and not as a service.
GOG is underrated.
@@lycanwarrior2137 : Which is why I got into the habit of downloading every last offline installer from GOG and storing them on an external drive. 8TB drives are cheap enough to justify it.
6:27 For some people you cant "just update" I believe for Windows 11 you have to have a certain gen Intel or AMD cpu or else you cannot update to Windows 11.
Come on Louis, this has been the case for the past 20 years. This is nothing new.
You own a license to play the game and this has always been the case. CD keys where the first things that made companies able to somewhat protect their stuff. Because of how much gamers kept selling their games to other gamers and just kept the CD key to basically scam other people.
So with the Windows 7 update. Steam is getting an Security update and Windows 7 OS can't just handle that.
Valve kept supporting Windows 7 for as long as it could but now an update to give better security just made it not work on Win7.
See it like this, you own a drivers license but you're not allowed to sell that license to someone else.
It's the same with Rockstar Games. I bought Grand Theft Auto V in 2015 and Max Payne 3 in 2012 for PC and both games ran without problems on Windows Vista (doesn't matter if it's a crappy OS or not, but it worked), now they changed the launcher used to launch these games and force you to download and install the "Rockstar Games Launcher" which obviously doesn't work on Vista. I own these games on disc, I can install these games without any problems, it has all the files you need to launch and play the game, but thanks to DRM that forces you to log in and check for game patches, it no longer works. I had to crack those games to make it work again.