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Roger, it is pointless you keep "discussing" this with people from Core, Blockstream and any of their advocates, or this Charlie Lee guy. Right of the bat, what he said is completely wrong (that LN is more P2P then Bitcoin system) which is the point at which you should see, there is no point trying to make him say the truth, as he will never say the truth, if he did he would have to admit that he is a crook, and he just won't do that. So I think its better for you to stop wasting your energy on these crooks... Charlie Lee is a crook, a liar... and no amount of logic and facts will make him admit when he's wrong, if he would do that, he would not be a crook... but he is. How many years have you and others tried to make sense into these people? They will remain crooks, and we should just move on. Bitcoin is BCH no matter how much bullshit he says... and he says a LOT of bullshit... because he is bullshit artist.
it's the first time i really litsen Charlie Lee , known the name but ... i know good roger ver. Guys, let the people Use the coin they need , for the application they need. i see great thing in both BTC and BCH , no matter all the 'useless' argument. both system work on their way. Great Coin are just like Metal . all different use and application, why argue over Copper and Silver and Gold or iron, let people use what they need , and let the market dictate the 'Golden Rule' The world, need , something expensif and slower, and the World need , something more cheap and faster. Roger, the WhitePaper of BTC is not a Cult, in french luanguage , i can argue that, BTC is STILL a p2p cash system. when we change to english word, then , definition and popular culture bring us a little different path and then sh!t hit the fan. Keep Calm , Buy BTC&BCH. ROger, i 'lost'(on paper) 50% on CET cuz you promoted it at the top. i still love you :D cuz i went in. Charlie Lee, nice guy , smart guy , keep on going ! in god we trust !
True, but it shows that he is passionate about bch and really believes this will bring economic freedom to the world, But he did make a good point about censoring payments on lightning that's actually really concerning.
Roger's passion is beyond doubt. He got me into bitcoin. I love the guy. I think he's put blinders on in some ways, but we all have freedom to make our own choices. I think he would be more credible to more people if he could articulate his points with less defensiveness. I'm not really concerned about the lighting network censoring anybody over the long term. It's like the internet in 1989 (brand, brand new) It will develop over time and get better or not be useful and die. If it censors anybody the market will reject it. And so I don't think that will happen.
Its true crypto currencies are in deed in there infancy and is acting like mid 1990 internet , and people need to do there own research in what they believe but seems in my opinion people are falling for the pets.com senario again , in my personal opinions the cryptos to watch for with alot of adoption happening is XRP , BCH i bet there other good projects but these are the ones i'm most familiar with.
Roger could not understand a joke and the difference between everyone censoring you and you censoring yourself to make a meme. Dude sounds like the people that call IT to tell you "yeah the entire network is down" because he can't connect his phone to the WiFi.
I used to like Roger more than Charlie but no more. He is interrupting people constantly - and he does it because he knows the other person is right and he is stopping him. Roger, you won't win the war this way but I understand maybe you have no other tool to use. It is rude and I don't support that.
Tioman Island the Litecoin community is nice & friendly. The BCH community is mean, rude and confrontational. I’d much rather be associated with Litecoin.
this isnt about manners i bought 100 ltc at 350 before realising the LIGHTENING NETWORK has more chance of striking me down in a thunderstorm than working
did you take down my coment????????????i rest my case i base my coments on information i thought bch is faster and the only coin to surpass 2million TEST transactions im fairly sure ltc hasnt done this and ive seen the speed of trasferring coins from exchange to wallet and it was way faster than any other alt coin i had.
sorry i see my comment is still there i actually had 200 ltc and i sold and bought bch when irealised the problems all crypto was having and that the only coin able to function write now was bch ,IF IT IS ALLOWED TOO
LOL Roger ver already lost the bet! 3 days before he made the bet. From reddit : YeOldDoc: "Coingate already enabled Lightning Network payments for over 4,000 merchants 3 days prior to the video"
September 5, 2018 (San Francisco, CA) - Cryptocurrency payment gateway CoinGate introduces Lightning Network payment processing for merchants. Over 4,000 businesses actively accepting Bitcoin through the CoinGate platform will immediately gain access to Lightning payments without any additional efforts. imgur.com/a/AUQexW4
I see a blog post from Coingate saying they're going to do this. Linking to a blog post / press release where somebody says they're going to do something is not winning the bet. Press releases are a dime a dozen. You have to demonstrate. Demonstrate.
Charlie Lee has masters in computer science? Is that what makes him right even when he is proven wrong? Can I use your same "reasoning" and remind you that Craig Wright has way more degrees and masters then Charlie Lee or any other person from Core & Blockstream... so according to same logic, which is what you are using and not me, Craig Right should be the one that is right and this Charlie Lee and every other crooks from Core & Blockstream is not. You people, haters of Bitcoin and BCH are so pathetic and low life trolls... all I see from your cult is name calling, zero arguments using logic and facts, and just bullshit.
Charlie is so knowledgeable and respectful where Roger is like a spoiled kid who wants to be right so bad that he believes his own lies. No doubt who won this debate! #SatoshiLite 4 President 2020.. 💪⚡️👍
makes me flippen sick bru! how the hell do you have a mature debate with a person when the other person keeps talking over you. Gosh he has much to learn
@@VenaMarissa Because that's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Why would I listen to a guy who got arrested for selling "explosives"? See how ad hominem attacks works against Roger too?
looks like Charlie Lee already won the bet. Look forward to seeing Roger Ver wearing a Litecoin or Blockstream tshirt. There is already over 4000 merchants that use CoinGate's payment processors and they now accept Lightning Network payments.
This is Rogers style shout your point across, louder dosen´t make your argument.Listen to what a person is saying and then give a reasonable response at a normal voice level.
At one point I was excited for BCH, it made sense. But then this guy was just dead set on being a celebrity, and he suffers from some very clear social issues and challenges. Causing him to come off as abrasive, and generally dislikeable. If BCH launched without someone like Roger wanting the spotlight, just doing the hard work behind the scenes to make it a success and bring adoption, it would be $5k+ right now. It’s too bad. BCH and “the Roger Ver show” became one in the same.
In the end the currency that has the most utility for users in terms of combination of store of value, medium of exchange and other uses will be the most valuable regardless of the people who are promoting it. I couldn't care less if Roger or CSW are the biggest charlatans on the planet, if the coin serves my needs I will use it. I believe this is true for the vast majority of people most of whom aren't even cryptocurrency users yet. Focusing on the failings of current promoters is a short term problem with no bearing on the long term outcome.
Shermhugh D it doesn’t matter that you don’t care, too many people still do. Because of Roger’s behavior there’s too many people against BCH for widespread adoption to ever happen.
95% of the world doesn't use cryptocurrency, have no idea who Roger Ver is, or know what the difference is between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. If there is some sort of global financial or monetary crisis and these people try to rush into cryptocurrency as a solution they may rush into the currency that is best able to handle the volume regardless of Roger Ver or CSW.
Charlie Lee is a programmer, wrote millions of lines of code to BTC and created LTC, Roger Ver is not a programmer. He only says what he thinks and what he believes in. Lack of culture, manipulation and conceit. Roger Ver - thank you for the BTC promotions but now you are just breaking the market.
Ugh for being a technology advocate, Roger doesnt wven understand the basic concepts that cryptocurrency is built on. He is rude and sounds like a used car salesman. If he would shut his mouth for more than 5 seconds at a time then charlie could finish his points. Opening his ears might even help him understand the technical distinctions of what exactly a peer to peer network is and why his misuse of the terminology means many of his arguments are nonsensical.
The person on the right (Roger?) has a severe lack of understanding of how Bitcoin works. e.g. When he says that his lightning node "everyone refused to connect to him" - that is an incorrect conclusion, it is simply that no connection attempts to the peer were made. (how would an isolated node be on the graph anyway) The same can happen for BTC, bad peers can get banned and everyone (eventually) will refuse to connect to them if they send invalid transactions / spam or don't conform to the consensus rules. Whether people who don't conform to the Bitcoin consensus rules being banned is called censorship is another question - obviously it is not.
roger is like an embarassing chield. he is not interested in the truth, he allways interrupts, he does not listen and just talks about his own agenda. its just sad.
Every idea must be sold to the public , a saleman isn't successful if the product he has is highly inferior to other competing products. Bitcoin cash is successful and being widely adopted due to being a good product out the door and having a good sales man to present it. Bitcoin core seems to only be surviving due to the name alone and riding off the brand.
Yeah Ver's lack of technical knowledge is really showing. Dude is just a bad sales person. Charlie stayed completely composed and never got hostile, just eager to explain.
@@nzalog but from the post of people that understand code and how the system works seems even charile isn't being honest on his answers, for example saying LN is peer to peer due to how's it's built it has so many middle men in the way and both bitcoins are peer to peer
I don't think peer to peer means that traffic can't go through other nodes just that anyone can act in the sense of a server or client and they are equally privileged. Charlie was trying to explain and address this but Ver kept interrupting. I just didn't feel Ver added any value to the discussion. He was also so caught up on a meme where people obviously did something as a joke but he was trying to use it as proof that you can block someone from the network.
Why Roger Ver seems always super angry ? We can feel each time when he speaks a lot of tension... It's sad because it's put in the dark every arguments that he says and tend to discredit his beliefs
I don't know why this matters. Maybe Roger doesn't like Bitcoin being squashed by developers who think they own it. Whatever the case, it's more important to consider the specific arguments made than the personalities. That's what thinking persons do.
Ver is pissed because he has to toss on with a second rate crypto, from which there's no return and it's going to make him irrelivant in the future... Oh and his buddies are bailing, leaving him with the shit bag...
When you're all emotion and little to know technical knowledge then all you've got is your emotions. So when the other person is talking technically, it feels like an attack because Ver is an idiot.
Roger Ver is a load mouth misleading, rude deceive who did not want Charlie to even fish his statements. Charlie Lee is honest about bitcoin and does not claim LTC to be better than BTC.
These Bitcoin “thought leaders” need to stop debating frauds like Roger Ver. It’s like debating CSW. Debates are meant to be between smart, intellectually honest, and reasonable people. Stop giving frauds and charlatans a platform and legitimacy!
LN is a joke... u should know that.. it is very easy to hack and you need to go through Know Your Customer process ... it has nothing same with the vision of satoshi
Wolle Wiedergut educate your self, the whole bitcoin and litecoin community have heard that a million of times. Do research. The only thing you have done is click the buy button on an exchange 😂, you can find countless of articles or Lightning lab speaking of all these issues
The dining analogy is WAY off. In this example, your restaurant is a block. Making people sit closer together in the same amount of space would be more like Segwit (fitting more transactions in the same amount of space), while increasing the amount of space that you have to seat customers, i.e. the building next door, is more like raising the block size (the size of your restaurant).
Roger, I have been following you for a couple of years now. I feel that there is a lot of anger inside you (understandably), but you need to put that aside during those debates. I wish you would have asked the questions more "neutral" without putting the words into your opponents mouth. - You could have argued that the lightning network without having a bigger blocksize will lead to centralization, because it's economically unviable to connect to lot's of nodes. It's cheaper to connect to just one giant hub. - What if regulations demand that lightning hubs need to have KYC, excluding people that the regulators don't like . Instead you provided an imo weak argument with the image of someone being excluded. I judge that your mind was clouded (with anger).
I feel bad. I thought Charlie Lee did a much better job of defending his position than last time, then I realized he was not Samson Mow. He some decent arguments and really good strategy in how he appeared to shut down some of Roger's arguments. But the arguments still failed to address how BTC has turned almost useless after mass adoption and why they couldn't have used bigger blocks as at least a temporary solution. Bitcoin is not about "a fine dining" experience. Bitcoin is about economic freedom - you bring food to people on the streets if you don't have room for demand.
I like your argument but not really sure where Charlie shut down Rogers arguments other than saying the project still a work in progress but from my years of being in crypto lightning been a work in progress for years and I feel we'll see a Duke nukem forever happen once it's fully released
He gave quick dismissing responses that seemed authoritative. For example, he said bitcoin is not peer-to-peer and that Lightning Network is. If you didn't understand software or networking, that would sound very convincing. In social terms, LN is not peer-to-peer. P2P means all network privileges are distributed equally. In LN, the nodes with more liquidity become choke points, meaning that more $$$ == more privilege. Bitcoin used to be P2P when anyone with a PC could mine, but now most users cannot afford a profitable full (mining) node, meaning that more investment == more privilege.This was always Satoshi's plan. He knew P2P was only needed to bootstrap the network to mass adoption, but I suspect he did not expect people could be tricked into never raising the block size again. In technical terms, both bitcoin and LN are P2P because all nodes operate the same from a software perspective.
Exactly what I wonder as well. If you have congestion, increase the block for a year while you work on your second layer. 2mb blocks wouldn't make any serious difference when it comes to mining but they wouldn't push everyone away from using btc.
As you can tell roger ver is already defensive starting off the conversation. He's a marketer, he knows how to talk, but listen to what he is saying and why is he so aggressive.
aaron hernandez by watching the video. I had a hard time using my eyes and ears too. I used to think watching and listening was for poor people. Now I know I am wrong. Even though I never watched this video, you read this comment and I made no sense
what how, charlie just pulled that statement out of his butt when both bitcoins are peer to peer, only differences is bitcoin core is adding the LN which makes it less peer to peer and more centralized with alot more middle men that will later increase fees and slow down transactions
I guess you were watching something different than me , because seem to me charlie just kept trying to pull out statements out of his butt that got debunked right away.If anything it showed charlie doesn't really understand economics or what bitcoin , bitcoin originally . I guess that was to be expected as a man that couldn't even stand by his own coin and when he told everyone to hodl and kept making meme about the flappening happening soon he sold all his coins at the high and started shilling nano a day after. How people still respect this guy are just delusional , but i guess the meme arise ckickun arise was just to powerful and got people to keep believing in there failing investment . I got out of bitcoin core because from my understand of the tech behind it seemed they were going for a centralized approach while trying to change bitcoin into something that alot more inefficient while calling it the next innovation in technologies , and i wish all you poor fool luck and hope you guys didn't invest more than you could afford to lose when it finally crashes down. As a early adopter and i know why i got into crypto why i invested and stayed with bitcoin originally and in my opinion bitcoin cash is the real bitcoin , but some how a alt coin got hold of the bitcoin name.
I feel Charlie Lee did do a decent job and was at least respectful. Roger is very enthusiastic and thats what I love about him! The first part of the interview was a bit rambly since they were both talking at the same time. But good job all and all! Thanks Bitcoin.com
Roger, you should be in Dash, its everything you stand for since 2014 and is born of bitcoin code as the idea of open source is intended. We need to join forces because we want the same thing.
The thing about Charlie’s restaurant analogy is that is a physical space. Blocksize is increasable electronically and not constrained by physical limitations. The real point here is why did Blockstream limit the blocksize artificially. It would have made sense if it was a restaurant. But bitcoin is not a restaurant. Size can be increased. Bitcoin Cash proves that with its larger blocks and yet still Core refuses to budge. This points to ulterior motives, forcing people off the base layer.
Bcash cant even beat out ripple, which is actually cheaper and faster then bcash, hell ripple is probably even more decentralized lol, (by the way i hate ripple - completely went against what this space was about - helping banks)
@@son3153 what? You're argument makes no sense. You reject the fiat currencies controlled by trillion dollar governments, but you prostrate before Bitmain because they are worth a billion. Get a grip.
Carbonkraft but it’s not peer to peer, it’s a third party, and nodes can be excluded from the network. Similar to how banks can exclude other potential banks into their banking billionaire boys club.
What nonsense. It is peer to peer. Node to node. You cant censor or exclude any node. But now that LN is new and there are not that many nodes yet and at the same time you call your node Roger Ver, or Hitler or whatever, no one want to connect to that node because of the name you put up. But as Chralie said, just let ur node name be anonymous and no one knows who you are even IF you are Roger Ver or Hitler.
you can expand but there will still be a bottle neck at the Point of Sales (POS) with a queue if you only have 1 POS dealing with 1 transaction at a time, especially when a restaurant can get busy at lunch time or on the weekends. what do you do now?
*but I sold them all just because of attitude you and Craig are using* Buying and selling crypto based on personalities is almost certainly bad speculation
"I disagree" "Okay..." Two person having a legit debate is something rarely findable in 2024. I dont know why BTC are canceling Roger so much, he is right on many points.
Whenever I watch a video with Roger in, all I can think about is how that man clearly needs to seek help for his obvious pressing mental health issues. Perhaps he can learn how to communicate with other humans while he's at it. Anyway great video guys looking forward to receiving my bcash shirt
Roger, you, McAfee & Jeff Berwick although the most controversial are by far my favorite crypto public figures. But you have to stop interrupting people when they speak. I've already done my research and know BCC is better & LN's tx's are conditional with double spending possibilities, but I still want to hear his side. Please Roger, for your followers & the entire crypto community, stop interrupting people when they speak!!
It is not easy to debate Roger, he has a tendency to raise his voice and cut you off. Having said that, Charlie seems defensive from the start. The more Charlie talk and the more I feel like selling what is left of my LTC. Somebody need to get a marketing person for litecoin!
Uh. you're going to win either way Roger. Payments done via LNs are "conditional" until after the payment channel closes, and the txs are included in a block. If at any time prior to that point the other participants in the payment channel decide to terminate their connections, or reverse txs, they'll be able to (bi-directional payment channels). That makes ALL LN txs REVERSIBLE.
You open an on chain transaction with a multi Sig which is used basically as a deposit, and other people can essentially use your newly opened payment channel. It is still actual bitcoin, on the actual chain, all secured by the main chain security, but accessed with LN to where the funds can be securely utilized by others on the network.
Roger is like a tank.... He is like a religious fanatic :D 8:40 i see Charlie starting to be tired of the pressure.... Roger is desperately trying to prove his point.... i hope he will be successful soon otherwise it could damage his health ... and others around him... :D
BTC and BCH both share the Bitcoin history; things would have different today (more confusing) if SegWit2X fork had occurred. We'll see how the Lightning Network plays out; one wildcard is the Rootstock project.
Roger has been an evangelist of Bitcoin and p2p currency since the beginning; his message hasn't changed to bring freedom of money to the masses and for everyone - he continues to spread the message about using a decentralized payment system; Charlie Lee created LTC in 2011 and has/had motives to make it the "payment" forefront; with Lightning Network and BCH, LTC doesn't seem as favorable anymore; he'll change his narrative and doesn't care too much for LTC now that he's sold his entire stake at the ATH. Roger still holds his cryptos and donates a lot to bring new individuals into the space and experience p2p currency.
Shame Roger literally already lost the bet. Coingate has 4000 on LN network. Ofcourse LN will succeed, it's not even a debate. It's growing in massive leaps.
Well, I guess this is what should be happening - a critical debate to benefit of everyone, Not an endless Attacks useful to no one. Roger Ver needs to tone down his aggressive stance, this is not a salesforce meeting. Nevertheless, there are many valid points in his arguments.
Semantics seems to be a big problem. Help me understand. Wouldn't it be more likely that my transaction is completed in a Bitcoin broadcast network compared to a Lightning P2P network? When Charlie is explaining the hops that this could be viewed as a weakness for if a peer is malicious or unavailable then my transaction wouldn't be completed. Compare that situation to a broadcast network where my transaction is seen by many and therefore there is no single point of attack or single point of failure and my transaction if far more likely to be completed. The focus should be on outcomes not on process. What am I missing here?
Because the users of the network decided it was the real bitcoin not the fake coin from roger. bcash shillz are worse than Hilary supporters, you lost in a fair election get over it. Bitcoin is BTC, BCH is an alt coin.
Roger BCH is great ... so just chill ... comes across really hostile ... bad for adoption for new people. Looks bad : ( like that relationship that made u feel small. Yuck!!
Roger says merchants aren't ready to use the lightning network but the point is that people aren't ready to use crypto yet. People are not ready to be their own banks, its too much responsibility. Too many people loosing their money, loosing their phones and 2fa's, their keys and passwords, people still need banks to take that responsibility and might do forever.
@KC Thanks for the insult and assumptions. You did not answer my point. You just sent a personal attack toward me that's called an ad-hominem (www.google.com/search?q=ad+hominem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b). My point still stands. People are not ready to adopt. I used to go to bitcoin meetups and I found so many people that has lost funds. There are tech savvy people that lost coins my mistake. If this is happening among tech savvy people good luck getting the average Joe onboard. It's like give the people freedom and they will come back begging to be governed. If you grow up a certain way, you can try change but it's hard to adopt it permanently. I hope I'm wrong like you are about me being against crypto because I'm in favour of the crypto ideology as it stands today. But I don't have faith in the average Joe's ability to take on this level of responsibility.
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The long awaited debate videos are finally here! We will be releasing a couple shorter clips and then the FULL debate in a few days. So make sure you are subscribed (hit the 🔔icon) so you don't miss out!
Best comments will receive a free Bitcoin Cash shirt!
Roger, it is pointless you keep "discussing" this with people from Core, Blockstream and any of their advocates, or this Charlie Lee guy. Right of the bat, what he said is completely wrong (that LN is more P2P then Bitcoin system) which is the point at which you should see, there is no point trying to make him say the truth, as he will never say the truth, if he did he would have to admit that he is a crook, and he just won't do that.
So I think its better for you to stop wasting your energy on these crooks... Charlie Lee is a crook, a liar... and no amount of logic and facts will make him admit when he's wrong, if he would do that, he would not be a crook... but he is. How many years have you and others tried to make sense into these people? They will remain crooks, and we should just move on.
Bitcoin is BCH no matter how much bullshit he says... and he says a LOT of bullshit... because he is bullshit artist.
Roger is such smug asshole. BCash would have more adoption if he wasn't the face of the coin
it's the first time i really litsen Charlie Lee , known the name but ... i know good roger ver.
Guys, let the people Use the coin they need , for the application they need.
i see great thing in both BTC and BCH , no matter all the 'useless' argument.
both system work on their way. Great Coin are just like Metal . all different use and application, why argue over Copper and Silver and Gold or iron, let people use what they need , and let the market dictate the 'Golden Rule'
The world, need , something expensif and slower, and the World need , something more cheap and faster.
Roger, the WhitePaper of BTC is not a Cult, in french luanguage , i can argue that, BTC is STILL a p2p cash system. when we change to english word, then , definition and popular culture bring us a little different path and then sh!t hit the fan.
Keep Calm , Buy BTC&BCH.
ROger, i 'lost'(on paper) 50% on CET cuz you promoted it at the top. i still love you :D cuz i went in.
Charlie Lee, nice guy , smart guy , keep on going !
in god we trust !
Kevin Zimmerman
You are the asshole, you asshole.
0.078 BTC Ed. Enjoy.
I can’t believe Roger actually posted this. Just embarrassing how unknowledgeable he is compared to Charlie.
Talking over Charlie highly disrespective and unprofessional interview! Big mouth
He was very aggressive and you could see if in his facial expressions with Charlie trying to keep cool the entire time.
PFFFT LIGHTNING NETWORK IS CENTRALISED... AND LEE IS PROMOTING IT... FUCKEN MORON
I can't believe you actually posted this. Just embarrassing how unknowledgeable you are.
another troll of the old slow bitcoin, if this trolls only could read they would realize bitcoin cash will skyrocket
The amount of times Roger interrupted Charlie was incredibly frustrating to watch
Daniel Teale same here!😒
It's the only debating tactic he knows. He thinks we can't process Charlie's augment when being distracted.
I actually stood up from my chair and screamed at the screen, "Roger, STFU and let Charlie talk!"
I agree. Let the man speak
He's like the Trump of crypto. Won't engage in conversation unless it benefits his own perspective.
*Just sold 500 BCH and bought 4800 LTC*
500 BCH? Yes yes, sure you did.
Just sold 24000LTC and bought 2500 BCH. But no proof like you though lol
@@Kataliaful XDXDXDXDDDDD
Just sold 4800 LTC and bought 100,000 NANO.
we read this already here in the comments 3 times now... fucking trolls
Roger always comes off as so defensive and emotional
Core trolling getting less and less imaginative by the day.
Who is "Core trolling"?
True, but it shows that he is passionate about bch and really believes this will bring economic freedom to the world, But he did make a good point about censoring payments on lightning that's actually really concerning.
Roger's passion is beyond doubt. He got me into bitcoin. I love the guy. I think he's put blinders on in some ways, but we all have freedom to make our own choices. I think he would be more credible to more people if he could articulate his points with less defensiveness.
I'm not really concerned about the lighting network censoring anybody over the long term. It's like the internet in 1989 (brand, brand new) It will develop over time and get better or not be useful and die. If it censors anybody the market will reject it. And so I don't think that will happen.
Its true crypto currencies are in deed in there infancy and is acting like mid 1990 internet , and people need to do there own research in what they believe but seems in my opinion people are falling for the pets.com senario again , in my personal opinions the cryptos to watch for with alot of adoption happening is XRP , BCH i bet there other good projects but these are the ones i'm most familiar with.
Charlie Lee put roger in his place in the 1st minute
Roger could not understand a joke and the difference between everyone censoring you and you censoring yourself to make a meme.
Dude sounds like the people that call IT to tell you "yeah the entire network is down" because he can't connect his phone to the WiFi.
@@collinozzie451 if you think roger won this debate then you are a lost cause as you have ur head so far up your own ass.
Roger, give it up. Smart people don't agree with nor trust you.
how so - he allowed Roger to make a even greater fool of himself to the public - Charlie doesnt need to do anything
Martin Carter “ I disagree!” ‘Okay..’ haha
I used to like Roger more than Charlie but no more. He is interrupting people constantly - and he does it because he knows the other person is right and he is stopping him. Roger, you won't win the war this way but I understand maybe you have no other tool to use. It is rude and I don't support that.
Tioman Island the Litecoin community is nice & friendly. The BCH community is mean, rude and confrontational. I’d much rather be associated with Litecoin.
this isnt about manners i bought 100 ltc at 350 before realising the LIGHTENING NETWORK has more chance of striking me down in a thunderstorm than working
Ian Cassie Even without lighting network Litecoin is just as fast and cheap as BCH.
did you take down my coment????????????i rest my case i base my coments on information i thought bch is faster and the only coin to surpass 2million TEST transactions im fairly sure ltc hasnt done this and ive seen the speed of trasferring coins from exchange to wallet and it was way faster than any other alt coin i had.
sorry i see my comment is still there i actually had 200 ltc and i sold and bought bch when irealised the problems all crypto was having and that the only coin able to function write now was bch ,IF IT IS ALLOWED TOO
LOL Roger ver already lost the bet! 3 days before he made the bet. From reddit : YeOldDoc: "Coingate already enabled Lightning Network payments for over 4,000 merchants 3 days prior to the video"
X777 1235813 another example, buying sandwich using lightning in switzerland, ruclips.net/video/ZlyPNABZtHk/видео.html
@X777 1235813 does it matter where? They didn't specify so that is irrelevant.
September 5, 2018 (San Francisco, CA) - Cryptocurrency payment gateway CoinGate introduces Lightning Network payment processing for merchants. Over 4,000 businesses actively accepting Bitcoin through the CoinGate platform will immediately gain access to Lightning payments without any additional efforts.
imgur.com/a/AUQexW4
Roger already lost
I see a blog post from Coingate saying they're going to do this. Linking to a blog post / press release where somebody says they're going to do something is not winning the bet. Press releases are a dime a dozen. You have to demonstrate. Demonstrate.
Arguing with an MIT graduate with a masters in computer science about how a peer to peer network works... Lol
Roger is like a fakin angry chicken , Lee destroyed with his arguments and his calm. Roger is just a fakin kid
Arguing the 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy -for one aspect in the argument.
im surprised he didn't spit and cry. dumb people are loud and confident.
Charlie Lee has masters in computer science? Is that what makes him right even when he is proven wrong?
Can I use your same "reasoning" and remind you that Craig Wright has way more degrees and masters then Charlie Lee or any other person from Core & Blockstream... so according to same logic, which is what you are using and not me, Craig Right should be the one that is right and this Charlie Lee and every other crooks from Core & Blockstream is not. You people, haters of Bitcoin and BCH are so pathetic and low life trolls... all I see from your cult is name calling, zero arguments using logic and facts, and just bullshit.
No doctorate? Sad! Cause most of the BCH developers has one
Charlie is so knowledgeable and respectful where Roger is like a spoiled kid who wants to be right so bad that he believes his own lies. No doubt who won this debate! #SatoshiLite 4 President 2020.. 💪⚡️👍
makes me flippen sick bru! how the hell do you have a mature debate with a person when the other person keeps talking over you. Gosh he has much to learn
i just want to write lot of things cause Roger speaks in an unbearable way but i saw your comment and i am relieved, thank you :)
Yup so many times I wanted to slap ver during this vid... stop interrupting you child!!
Some of you guys really need to put aside you biases. Charlie Lee is actually very reasonable here. Good debate.
I agree, Charlie was very cordial. Not so good on the technical/economical issues though.
He absolutely was. And Roger always words his questions in a way to fit his viewpoint so it's pretty hard to go against him.
Charlie did quite well and this was a worthwhile discussion thanks to that. Roger is a pro debater and he can't put that away.
Why would you believe someone who sold his own coin though?
@@VenaMarissa Because that's completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Why would I listen to a guy who got arrested for selling "explosives"? See how ad hominem attacks works against Roger too?
Is it just me or does this video make you want to buy some Litecoin?
It actually kind of does
Hell yeah, Roger Ver's behavior in a debate is very wrongfully manipulative for those not too smart.
How dare you cut off Charlie Lee!!!! Let the MAN SPEAK. Big Tyrant. Lol
Roger why are you that unfriendly with Lee? Whats wrong with you? You event won't let him to speak out?
looks like Charlie Lee already won the bet. Look forward to seeing Roger Ver wearing a Litecoin or Blockstream tshirt. There is already over 4000 merchants that use CoinGate's payment processors and they now accept Lightning Network payments.
I just checked the site and it is in alpha with about 12 merchants listed.
There is a blog post from Coingate saying they're going to do this. Demonstrate, or sit down.
lightningnetworkstores.com/ count again, clown
Do people have to be rude to use Lightning Network? I think I'll stick with Bitcoin Cash since it's not in beta and has a lot more retail adoption.
@@rogerver - Roger do you read the comments?... people think you are a twat
This is Rogers style shout your point across, louder dosen´t make your argument.Listen to what a person is saying and then give a reasonable response at a normal voice level.
Just sold my bch
Gra Hajas I’ll have my minnow net ready.
Hahaha who sells at the bottom of the market
People that live off crypto everyday? Clearly you dont want people to use crypto.
Thanks for the cheap BCH
Everything is down so doesn't matter if you "sell at the bottom" as long as you're moving to a better crypto.
Roger Ver you are just embarrassing
you and your troll army is embarrassing
At one point I was excited for BCH, it made sense.
But then this guy was just dead set on being a celebrity, and he suffers from some very clear social issues and challenges. Causing him to come off as abrasive, and generally dislikeable.
If BCH launched without someone like Roger wanting the spotlight, just doing the hard work behind the scenes to make it a success and bring adoption, it would be $5k+ right now.
It’s too bad. BCH and “the Roger Ver show” became one in the same.
Just use litecoin there is no drama with litecoin and its faster and more secured than BCH
In the end the currency that has the most utility for users in terms of combination of store of value, medium of exchange and other uses will be the most valuable regardless of the people who are promoting it. I couldn't care less if Roger or CSW are the biggest charlatans on the planet, if the coin serves my needs I will use it. I believe this is true for the vast majority of people most of whom aren't even cryptocurrency users yet. Focusing on the failings of current promoters is a short term problem with no bearing on the long term outcome.
Shermhugh D it doesn’t matter that you don’t care, too many people still do.
Because of Roger’s behavior there’s too many people against BCH for widespread adoption to ever happen.
95% of the world doesn't use cryptocurrency, have no idea who Roger Ver is, or know what the difference is between Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. If there is some sort of global financial or monetary crisis and these people try to rush into cryptocurrency as a solution they may rush into the currency that is best able to handle the volume regardless of Roger Ver or CSW.
Charlie Lee is a programmer, wrote millions of lines of code to BTC and created LTC, Roger Ver is not a programmer. He only says what he thinks and what he believes in. Lack of culture, manipulation and conceit. Roger Ver - thank you for the BTC promotions but now you are just breaking the market.
Yeah Ver sounded like an idiot in this exchange. Showed very little respect to Charlie, who clearly understood the topic far better than Ver.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Karol Strzelec He is scammer not programmer lol
@Kataliaful, ya Roger is not a programmer and is an attempted scammer
Ugh for being a technology advocate, Roger doesnt wven understand the basic concepts that cryptocurrency is built on. He is rude and sounds like a used car salesman. If he would shut his mouth for more than 5 seconds at a time then charlie could finish his points. Opening his ears might even help him understand the technical distinctions of what exactly a peer to peer network is and why his misuse of the terminology means many of his arguments are nonsensical.
The person on the right (Roger?) has a severe lack of understanding of how Bitcoin works. e.g. When he says that his lightning node "everyone refused to connect to him" - that is an incorrect conclusion, it is simply that no connection attempts to the peer were made. (how would an isolated node be on the graph anyway) The same can happen for BTC, bad peers can get banned and everyone (eventually) will refuse to connect to them if they send invalid transactions / spam or don't conform to the consensus rules. Whether people who don't conform to the Bitcoin consensus rules being banned is called censorship is another question - obviously it is not.
roger is like an embarassing chield. he is not interested in the truth, he allways interrupts, he does not listen and just talks about his own agenda. its just sad.
Roger does nothing but interrupt Charlie.
Charlie sounds fairly reasonable
Small blockers aren't malicious on the most part, they just wrong
He's smarter than Jimmy Song or Samson Mow! No "bcash", no "bch is fiat money", this is refreshing.
I'm with Charlie Lee ,
Roger ver bch salesman
Thank you for your _opinion_ . Feel free to also add an _argument_ .
Every idea must be sold to the public , a saleman isn't successful if the product he has is highly inferior to other competing products. Bitcoin cash is successful and being widely adopted due to being a good product out the door and having a good sales man to present it. Bitcoin core seems to only be surviving due to the name alone and riding off the brand.
Yeah Ver's lack of technical knowledge is really showing. Dude is just a bad sales person. Charlie stayed completely composed and never got hostile, just eager to explain.
@@nzalog but from the post of people that understand code and how the system works seems even charile isn't being honest on his answers, for example saying LN is peer to peer due to how's it's built it has so many middle men in the way and both bitcoins are peer to peer
I don't think peer to peer means that traffic can't go through other nodes just that anyone can act in the sense of a server or client and they are equally privileged. Charlie was trying to explain and address this but Ver kept interrupting. I just didn't feel Ver added any value to the discussion. He was also so caught up on a meme where people obviously did something as a joke but he was trying to use it as proof that you can block someone from the network.
Why Roger Ver seems always super angry ? We can feel each time when he speaks a lot of tension... It's sad because it's put in the dark every arguments that he says and tend to discredit his beliefs
I don't know why this matters. Maybe Roger doesn't like Bitcoin being squashed by developers who think they own it. Whatever the case, it's more important to consider the specific arguments made than the personalities. That's what thinking persons do.
because he's a child in a man's body...
Ver is pissed because he has to toss on with a second rate crypto, from which there's no return and it's going to make him irrelivant in the future... Oh and his buddies are bailing, leaving him with the shit bag...
When you're all emotion and little to know technical knowledge then all you've got is your emotions. So when the other person is talking technically, it feels like an attack because Ver is an idiot.
Core supporters are typical leftists, always personal attacks and appealing to emotion, never reason and evidence.
Roger is literraly focusing on the dumbest arguement here lol
i love you. you're my favorite troll
Roger Ver is a load mouth misleading, rude deceive who did not want Charlie to even fish his statements. Charlie Lee is honest about bitcoin and does not claim LTC to be better than BTC.
i love how charlie destroys rogers whole arguement right from the start by telling him bcash isnt even p2p lmaoooo
These Bitcoin “thought leaders” need to stop debating frauds like Roger Ver. It’s like debating CSW. Debates are meant to be between smart, intellectually honest, and reasonable people. Stop giving frauds and charlatans a platform and legitimacy!
Charlatans is right!😂
Just sold all my BCASH.
nice selling the bottom and rebuy ATH ? :D
Wolle Wiedergut bottom for btrash is $0. Useless after LN network even roger knows
LN is a joke... u should know that.. it is very easy to hack and you need to go through Know Your Customer process ... it has nothing same with the vision of satoshi
Wolle Wiedergut educate your self, the whole bitcoin and litecoin community have heard that a million of times. Do research. The only thing you have done is click the buy button on an exchange 😂, you can find countless of articles or Lightning lab speaking of all these issues
Wolle Wiedergut even roger ver is smarter then you, he knows all this too. His only argument is bcash is accepted more then LN payments lol
Roger, are you serious you expect people to pay transactions with fees with an "every day currency"? Bcash is a joke
Charlie Lee is more of a gentleman. Ver is a bitter human being. HODL LTC baby!
Actually didn't think charlie was going to win this, but he did
Charlie is the best man in the whole space... Bch going into the ground.... Charlie is our leader.. And ver the dick really talking over him
Charlie the man.
Litecoin rules
5:35 Roger making a fool out of himself and not realizing it, and still uploading this video. How embarassing!
humble vs too proud
The dining analogy is WAY off. In this example, your restaurant is a block. Making people sit closer together in the same amount of space would be more like Segwit (fitting more transactions in the same amount of space), while increasing the amount of space that you have to seat customers, i.e. the building next door, is more like raising the block size (the size of your restaurant).
Getting 1000 LN stores is easy. Making sure CSW does not split the BCH chain into 2 is a more pressing issue.
ALQO (XLQ) will have a lightning network, I bet they will make it more usable than BTC lightning
Lets see whats coming up - bitfineon first to make money - fancy scaling tech later ;-)
yes smasherx is right. Now it's time for bitfineon. Q4 can be great for Alqo
If you buy XLQ you deserve to get rekt
Don't be so agressive, Roger.
At what point will roger admit he's wrong? Haha
Roger, I have been following you for a couple of years now. I feel that there is a lot of anger inside you (understandably), but you need to put that aside during those debates. I wish you would have asked the questions more "neutral" without putting the words into your opponents mouth.
- You could have argued that the lightning network without having a bigger blocksize will lead to centralization, because it's economically unviable to connect to lot's of nodes. It's cheaper to connect to just one giant hub.
- What if regulations demand that lightning hubs need to have KYC, excluding people that the regulators don't like
.
Instead you provided an imo weak argument with the image of someone being excluded. I judge that your mind was clouded (with anger).
In the future, we will be able to write our own versions of lightning networks. That's the beauty of decentralization. Good luck.
he is mad because he can not ever comeback to the US , lol
Does Lightning have more than 1,000 merchants one April 5th 2020?
I feel bad. I thought Charlie Lee did a much better job of defending his position than last time, then I realized he was not Samson Mow.
He some decent arguments and really good strategy in how he appeared to shut down some of Roger's arguments. But the arguments still failed to address how BTC has turned almost useless after mass adoption and why they couldn't have used bigger blocks as at least a temporary solution. Bitcoin is not about "a fine dining" experience. Bitcoin is about economic freedom - you bring food to people on the streets if you don't have room for demand.
I like your argument but not really sure where Charlie shut down Rogers arguments other than saying the project still a work in progress but from my years of being in crypto lightning been a work in progress for years and I feel we'll see a Duke nukem forever happen once it's fully released
Lol temporally changing code for something that has billions of dollars of value
He gave quick dismissing responses that seemed authoritative. For example, he said bitcoin is not peer-to-peer and that Lightning Network is. If you didn't understand software or networking, that would sound very convincing.
In social terms, LN is not peer-to-peer. P2P means all network privileges are distributed equally. In LN, the nodes with more liquidity become choke points, meaning that more $$$ == more privilege. Bitcoin used to be P2P when anyone with a PC could mine, but now most users cannot afford a profitable full (mining) node, meaning that more investment == more privilege.This was always Satoshi's plan. He knew P2P was only needed to bootstrap the network to mass adoption, but I suspect he did not expect people could be tricked into never raising the block size again.
In technical terms, both bitcoin and LN are P2P because all nodes operate the same from a software perspective.
Exactly what I wonder as well. If you have congestion, increase the block for a year while you work on your second layer. 2mb blocks wouldn't make any serious difference when it comes to mining but they wouldn't push everyone away from using btc.
you just dont get it. charlie know's that we (the viewers) are much smarter than that.
Where is the updated video about the results? It’s been two years!
As you can tell roger ver is already defensive starting off the conversation. He's a marketer, he knows how to talk, but listen to what he is saying and why is he so aggressive.
Because he knows he's lost.
Nice one Roger. WOW charlie looks and feels so uncomfortable in that chair. All clear to see. The body does not lie!
embarassing, roger clearly lacks the technical understanding and is also being very rude with charlie lee by interrupting him permanently.
Charlie has more brains about the blockchain then ver lol
I doubt that's a difficult feat.
Ver just strikes me as the type of person who just repeats buzz words in chains to sound smart.
What if Charlie opens 1000 sticker stores?
Charlie made Roger look like a complete fool without even trying omg...
Really how?
aaron hernandez by watching the video. I had a hard time using my eyes and ears too. I used to think watching and listening was for poor people. Now I know I am wrong. Even though I never watched this video, you read this comment and I made no sense
charlie proved bcash isnt even peer to peer cash like roger thinks lmao how embaressing
what how, charlie just pulled that statement out of his butt when both bitcoins are peer to peer, only differences is bitcoin core is adding the LN which makes it less peer to peer and more centralized with alot more middle men that will later increase fees and slow down transactions
I guess you were watching something different than me , because seem to me charlie just kept trying to pull out statements out of his butt that got debunked right away.If anything it showed charlie doesn't really understand economics or what bitcoin , bitcoin originally . I guess that was to be expected as a man that couldn't even stand by his own coin and when he told everyone to hodl and kept making meme about the flappening happening soon he sold all his coins at the high and started shilling nano a day after. How people still respect this guy are just delusional , but i guess the meme arise ckickun arise was just to powerful and got people to keep believing in there failing investment . I got out of bitcoin core because from my understand of the tech behind it seemed they were going for a centralized approach while trying to change bitcoin into something that alot more inefficient while calling it the next innovation in technologies , and i wish all you poor fool luck and hope you guys didn't invest more than you could afford to lose when it finally crashes down. As a early adopter and i know why i got into crypto why i invested and stayed with bitcoin originally and in my opinion bitcoin cash is the real bitcoin , but some how a alt coin got hold of the bitcoin name.
18 month later ? whats the news ?
this is laughable. As if a scammer like Ver can hold an argument with a legend like Charlie
Did charlie wear the bch shirt in the end? Wheres the video?
I feel Charlie Lee did do a decent job and was at least respectful. Roger is very enthusiastic and thats what I love about him! The first part of the interview was a bit rambly since they were both talking at the same time. But good job all and all! Thanks Bitcoin.com
Roger shld take a course in block chain or computer science or computer engineering first , prior to the debate
Roger, you should be in Dash, its everything you stand for since 2014 and is born of bitcoin code as the idea of open source is intended.
We need to join forces because we want the same thing.
The thing about Charlie’s restaurant analogy is that is a physical space. Blocksize is increasable electronically and not constrained by physical limitations. The real point here is why did Blockstream limit the blocksize artificially. It would have made sense if it was a restaurant. But bitcoin is not a restaurant. Size can be increased. Bitcoin Cash proves that with its larger blocks and yet still Core refuses to budge. This points to ulterior motives, forcing people off the base layer.
Bcash cant even beat out ripple, which is actually cheaper and faster then bcash, hell ripple is probably even more decentralized lol, (by the way i hate ripple - completely went against what this space was about - helping banks)
I MEAN XRP
Xlm is better
Roger Ver can take his B-cash and go home.
Charlie Lee is so cool!
Roger is an intellectual assassin, elite level debater.
the "I am selling BCH because of this video" comments couldn't be more manufactured. Try FUDding harder
I dumped mine when I found out Bitmain holds 1+ million BCH. Here, have some more while it sinks...
XMR Playboy sure sell it. Its laughable how some people think they can outsmart billion dollar entities like Bitmain.
@@son3153 what? You're argument makes no sense. You reject the fiat currencies controlled by trillion dollar governments, but you prostrate before Bitmain because they are worth a billion. Get a grip.
XMR Playboy read again before u reply
@@son3153 read that stupid shit you wrote a second time? for what?
To anyone who doesn't want to watch it all. Scroll to 10:30 and watch to the end. This bet is gold.
Coincards.ca accepts lightning
I don't know why but I always agree with what Roger Vet is saying.
What’s the difference between 2nd layer off-chain transactions and third parties, moreover, the whole central banking system?
Allot. 2 Layer like LN is uncensorable, anonymous, and open to ALL. The central banking system is NOT.
Carbonkraft but it’s not peer to peer, it’s a third party, and nodes can be excluded from the network. Similar to how banks can exclude other potential banks into their banking billionaire boys club.
What nonsense. It is peer to peer. Node to node. You cant censor or exclude any node. But now that LN is new and there are not that many nodes yet and at the same time you call your node Roger Ver, or Hitler or whatever, no one want to connect to that node because of the name you put up. But as Chralie said, just let ur node name be anonymous and no one knows who you are even IF you are Roger Ver or Hitler.
Carbonkraft How is an off chain payment peer to peer? You literally have to make an off chain payment through a ‘2nd layer’ (aka third party).
How is it not? Every node represent a person.
you can expand but there will still be a bottle neck at the Point of Sales (POS) with a queue if you only have 1 POS dealing with 1 transaction at a time, especially when a restaurant can get busy at lunch time or on the weekends. what do you do now?
LN FTW!!
Wish you the best of luck they brought up a very concerning comment about payment censorship.
6:06 - Roger's comment became obsolete within a few months. That's not what I'd call a visionary, but rather a person lagging behind.
Roger = I am dissapointed... I believed in BCH but I sold them all just because of attitude you and Craig are using. Unsubscribed!
Why? this is the way he has always being, nothing new here. Did it suit you better when he did this for BTC?
Tioman is a paid troll
Pretty sure your just a troll that never own any bch
*but I sold them all just because of attitude you and Craig are using*
Buying and selling crypto based on personalities is almost certainly bad speculation
You never owned any. Half of these comments are your co workers. Go back under your bridge.
What is BTC’s justification for not increasing the block size?
Bully Roger Ver! I could never buy anything he is involved with
"I disagree"
"Okay..."
Two person having a legit debate is something rarely findable in 2024.
I dont know why BTC are canceling Roger so much, he is right on many points.
Roger needs to relax.
Whenever I watch a video with Roger in, all I can think about is how that man clearly needs to seek help for his obvious pressing mental health issues. Perhaps he can learn how to communicate with other humans while he's at it.
Anyway great video guys looking forward to receiving my bcash shirt
Roger used to be so respected. It's so sad now...
7:50 Both Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash are fantastic marketing ploys, if you want to use something else that isn't Bitcoin.
Roger, you, McAfee & Jeff Berwick although the most controversial are by far my favorite crypto public figures. But you have to stop interrupting people when they speak. I've already done my research and know BCC is better & LN's tx's are conditional with double spending possibilities, but I still want to hear his side. Please Roger, for your followers & the entire crypto community, stop interrupting people when they speak!!
It is not easy to debate Roger, he has a tendency to raise his voice and cut you off.
Having said that, Charlie seems defensive from the start. The more Charlie talk and the more I feel like selling what is left of my LTC.
Somebody need to get a marketing person for litecoin!
Oof rogers out of his depth
Charlie Lee doing charity???
Speaking to children.
Uh. you're going to win either way Roger. Payments done via LNs are "conditional" until after the payment channel closes, and the txs are included in a block. If at any time prior to that point the other participants in the payment channel decide to terminate their connections, or reverse txs, they'll be able to (bi-directional payment channels). That makes ALL LN txs REVERSIBLE.
Makes sense. If it's not on the blockchain, it's not Bitcoin.
Frank Dashwood Litecoin has fast, cheap, reliable, uncensored on-chain transactions. Can we agree on that?
Thats why 0-conf transactions are not Bitcoin either. Or even bitcoin Cash for that matter.
You open an on chain transaction with a multi Sig which is used basically as a deposit, and other people can essentially use your newly opened payment channel. It is still actual bitcoin, on the actual chain, all secured by the main chain security, but accessed with LN to where the funds can be securely utilized by others on the network.
Yeah, I understand that. I also understand that the payment channels are bi-directional (ie reversible, not immutable).
Roger is like a tank.... He is like a religious fanatic :D 8:40 i see Charlie starting to be tired of the pressure.... Roger is desperately trying to prove his point.... i hope he will be successful soon otherwise it could damage his health ... and others around him... :D
Smashed the like
Charlie Lee sold all of his Litecoin.
The real reason is attempt to disconnect from Litecoin.
Because if it has a founder, it is a security.
"No, I don't like to bet money." - Charlie Lee, sold all LTC holdings @ATH ($330)
Play 10:58
So did I, for the real BTC though. Waiting for bcash to pump to dump for the real BTC.
Nooooo! Because there's no way Roger ever sold any crypto he supported...
BTC and BCH both share the Bitcoin history; things would have different today (more confusing) if SegWit2X fork had occurred. We'll see how the Lightning Network plays out; one wildcard is the Rootstock project.
Roger has been an evangelist of Bitcoin and p2p currency since the beginning; his message hasn't changed to bring freedom of money to the masses and for everyone - he continues to spread the message about using a decentralized payment system; Charlie Lee created LTC in 2011 and has/had motives to make it the "payment" forefront; with Lightning Network and BCH, LTC doesn't seem as favorable anymore; he'll change his narrative and doesn't care too much for LTC now that he's sold his entire stake at the ATH. Roger still holds his cryptos and donates a lot to bring new individuals into the space and experience p2p currency.
I don't like Charlie Lee. Just because he seemed to be more calm and respectful doesn't mean LN will succeed. Watch body language...
Shame Roger literally already lost the bet. Coingate has 4000 on LN network. Ofcourse LN will succeed, it's not even a debate. It's growing in massive leaps.
Well, I guess this is what should be happening - a critical debate to benefit of everyone, Not an endless Attacks useful to no one.
Roger Ver needs to tone down his aggressive stance, this is not a salesforce meeting.
Nevertheless, there are many valid points in his arguments.
Roger ver thank you for these open debates. Too bad all the mindless roger ver trolls are in the comments
Well he did say that he's great at infomercials.
@noryn syra anything against Roger Ver must be a bot right. Thanks for proving my point that you are a mindless fool.
Semantics seems to be a big problem. Help me understand. Wouldn't it be more likely that my transaction is completed in a Bitcoin broadcast network compared to a Lightning P2P network? When Charlie is explaining the hops that this could be viewed as a weakness for if a peer is malicious or unavailable then my transaction wouldn't be completed. Compare that situation to a broadcast network where my transaction is seen by many and therefore there is no single point of attack or single point of failure and my transaction if far more likely to be completed.
The focus should be on outcomes not on process.
What am I missing here?
Charlie "I sold all my LTC near the peak" Lee
and Roger " I sold all my Bitcoin" Ver
@@adamroberts6935 Bitcoin core or Bitcoin cash, because pretty sure he stated that hes holding a fat stack of bch
@aaron hernandez lol dunno what you're talking about.. There is a Bitcoin Core, Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin... lmao...
Bitcoin Core (BTC) , Bitcoin Cash (BCH), The original bitcoin, well the 2017 version of Bitcoin forked last year ,but Bitcoin Core won the ticker BTC.
Because the users of the network decided it was the real bitcoin not the fake coin from roger. bcash shillz are worse than Hilary supporters, you lost in a fair election get over it. Bitcoin is BTC, BCH is an alt coin.
Charlie's stress test! Well done Charlie! Roger Ver never pass Roger's stress test if Charlie attack you like that!
Why would you interview such a toxic core troll?
I think it's really cool to let people speak for themself so I can make a picture of my own.
well in this case he wasn't.
Interview everybody. If people have bad ideas they will expose themselves.
because we don't silence other opinions.
Yeah I agree with you G Jun... I cant believe Charlie would bring that troll in for an interview
5:35 wrong RV.. You can use Samurai wallet for LN on your phone..
Roger BCH is great ... so just chill ... comes across really hostile ... bad for adoption for new people. Looks bad : ( like that relationship that made u feel small. Yuck!!
He sounds like a chilling 1 sided complete douchebag
Roger says merchants aren't ready to use the lightning network but the point is that people aren't ready to use crypto yet. People are not ready to be their own banks, its too much responsibility. Too many people loosing their money, loosing their phones and 2fa's, their keys and passwords, people still need banks to take that responsibility and might do forever.
Beg to differ, system to allow people to be their own bank needs to be ready BEFORE masses of people need to use it, not after.
@KC Thanks for the insult and assumptions. You did not answer my point. You just sent a personal attack toward me that's called an ad-hominem (www.google.com/search?q=ad+hominem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b). My point still stands. People are not ready to adopt. I used to go to bitcoin meetups and I found so many people that has lost funds. There are tech savvy people that lost coins my mistake. If this is happening among tech savvy people good luck getting the average Joe onboard. It's like give the people freedom and they will come back begging to be governed. If you grow up a certain way, you can try change but it's hard to adopt it permanently. I hope I'm wrong like you are about me being against crypto because I'm in favour of the crypto ideology as it stands today. But I don't have faith in the average Joe's ability to take on this level of responsibility.
BCH is the best. Use it every day for payments. Buy and replace, works like a charm.
Ye, woo, hoo!
Yeah…. That works with LTC aswell you know…..
Ltc going go blow bcash out the water.. Just watch