What a breath of fresh air you are. Most Luthier videos I watched tell you what can be done to show you how to do it. But you have taken the time to show us how it can be done, warts and all. Great work, Susan.
Susie, I think you did an incredible job! I would agree with you bending with a metal strap is not good because you don't get the same feel from the wood, it's an Art form when you bend any wood by free of other material because you know what the wood can take before breaking, the same holds true for how much water is used to keep the wood conditioned well. I have several classical guitars I purchased, and have tried wood bending through trial and error. This video was very detailed and, very informative in bending wood, Bravo!!!👍🤗♥️💪
Loving your stuff - I'm planning a similar project and you are doing all the methodical research for me! Your insights are incredibly valuable - thank you.
Magic to watch. I have done timber bending on a mandolin I made years ago...From my research the Lignin in the timber , under heat, releases the fibres to allow them to slip as well as compress. For those watching, it is a great experience to feel the once hard timber give way and bend.
Walnut roasting on an open iron... :-) The steel band wants to bend along it's center line, so if the clamping doesn't slip at all, it actually compresses the outside surface a bit too. That bend isn't as tight as the ones in some cutout models, so I think you won't have problems with it. I think the starp is a bit of an overkill when hand bending. It's usually a good idea to try to see, feel, hear and smell the wood as well as you can when working it. I generally don't like tools that take away from the sensory feedback.
I steamed timbers for use as ribs and used the metal strap on the outside for the tighter curves and that worked well. It may be that if you steamed the side timbers you may have better results. You will only need to soak the timbers overnight and steam for half an hour. Good luck.
I built a FOX style bender and 3 - 200 watt light bulbs were used as my warming source. It has worked beautifully for years but the old style bulbs are becoming harder to obtain. It works very well for repeating side designs though.
Hi Susan.. I find I get real good "feel" by using thinner spring steel (I am using 0.20mm spring steel that offers minimal resistance) The best I've found is from Theluthiersbench which is made for guitar with brass and steel handles. Wood ideally should be bent under compression, which is why wood tends to split firstly on the outside of the curve being formed. Pulling on the spring steel strap will " compress" the outside of the curve and with practice will give good results..... fingers crossed!!
Tears or fractures can be repaired with a shaped caul and super glue and are to be expected with some woods. I have better success with a spritz bottle (less water) and a stainless steel strap to encapsulate the wood.
Hi. Sue. Fantastic Demo really good, I think the clamps are compressing the wood which I think needs to expand to allow it to form correctly, just in my experiments. many thanks. Rudy.
When I cut wood, I ALWAYS use push shoes [rather than mere push sticks]. Forty some years later, I still have all my digits. Instead of relying so much on your hands and gloves, come up with a push stick about three inches tall and with a curve to do what one of your hands does.
Bending wood is whole new world of madness :) some woods are better in compression than tension. If you look into bow making and boat building they both bend wood . Steam seems to be the secret there and using a form to clamp the wood to. Having said that I've had some success bending wood with a heat gun. I'm no expert so have only dabbled in this.Hope this opens up a few other options for you to look into. Love the videos :)
Hi suzie Thanks for the information on such a tricky subject. I was just wondering if you had ever looked at the bending of longbows as another area of experience on this. The stretch (or creep, as the wood is not really elastic enough to imply stretch and return) and compression principles are naturally the same and are used in bowery to maximum possible effect to get the most efficient bow, that is, how to get maximum springback. One of the most effective ways of doing this on a bow is to add a creep resistant backing to the outside curve of the bow. Analogous to the way you are using the clamped steel strap. I make English longbows as well as a few instruments (currently working on a baroque lute with 11 bent ribs) and its really interesting to see how the same material science applies to both disciplines. Anyway, thanks for your time and best wishes Nick Adams
as a woodworker i would recommend either building yourself a small steam box or going down the laminating route im not a musician so i dont know if that would effect the sound but laminating would be your best bet
Probably a bit late :) BLACK BODY RADIATION: A black surface will radiate more heat than a white one or a metallic one. In fact a polished metal surface will radiate the least. So, your infra red temp sensor wont be giving you accurate readings. Once you contact the surface with the wood, well, that's conduction and different rules apply.
...yes, but there's always sound loose involving glue, i mean, diferences between a "one piece" wood & several laminated thin ones are too notorious, far beyond is much easyer.
I have an idea wich could make it much easier, and that is if you make 2 holes at both ends of the steel strap, then you tied a rope at both holes and you take this rope around your waist. So your free hands are free to just guide the piece of wood. please keep the good work and keep smiling ⚘ regards Hassan
Hello, I have been watching some of your videos for a while now and I've been enjoying them especially when you give little tips and tricks. So I thought I would give one to you pipeline build RC models, and If you sock thin strips of wood in Ammonia you can bend them without a heater.
Susan Gardener just a little butt chisel to clean up dovetail joints and see what their new range of chisels are like. and a intense need for a low angle jack plane
Hmm. Watching back to front. I used to make wooden miniatures. I had a set of (model) buggy wheels to make, maybe 6 cm. diameter, in birch. Broke lots of them. Finally used a household pressure cooker. Worked. For your scale I think a pressure canner would do. Big enough. Steam is the thing. Live steam. Pressure helps, which is why I suggest a canner. And it takes time to steam wood. . The way you are doing it may or may not work. You are relying on the heater thingy to turn moisture into steam. But very little time to do it. And a jig to clamp the bent piece to (awful English!) is essential. Once you have steamed the piece, you have to work fast. Anyway we all have different experiences, just giving you mine.
I was surprised that the clamping method worked better than using the strap as a floating support. I would have thought that the outer shearing forces would increase using a clamped strap. I would also presume that wood, being a natural, organic material, might lack structural homogeneity, and this being the case, might therefore require a greater sample population to produce a reliable data set and preferred method. It was an interesting demonstration, nevertheless.
Hey Susan! Been watching your videos for a couple of months now and really enjoy them! I love to experiment and sadly, these days too many people think things are failures if they do not go well the first time! That is just a learning experience... huge value in that considering the alternative of always having to do it right... who would learn or create or invent? So... Of course I was wondering... how about using the clamped strap to go to some portion of the radius, then going free style for the rest. It would give some compression to eliminate the over-stretching and would also return your tactile sense for detecting the onset of failure. I wonder how sharp a good bend you could get that way. I have only tried a little bending and for that I steamed the entire piece and then clamped it into a form that was a little sharper than the final to compensate for spring-back - which you do automatically while hand bending on the heated bending form. Keep learning!
Have you watched Robbie O'Brian's video? I don't do it his way because of the curly wood I use. Bending dry is preferred because you are having to heat up the moisture you have introduced. I'd have my sides 2.2mm thick. Walnut is a breeze to bend, however the recent Claro walnut I have been dry bending has given off toxic fumes when bending so I have had to use a air purifying mask... Watching you bend, you are not 'chasing the heat'. Of the 1600 sides I have hand bent I can guarantee that everyone has performed differently even from consecutive slices from the same board. And remember, wood is a thermo plastic - the heat is there to break the molecular bonds... that's why it 'flops' like plastic she heated. BTW- I have several instruments where I had to straighten a side out because it was bent the wrong way round for a book match! BTW: I use .2mm stainless shim stock. Can't get on with spring steel.
+Pete Howlett I've seen most of Robbie's videos but I can't remember a bending video. Can you post a link? (I'll have to approve the comment as the link will put it in my spam folder)
You will find it through the search function... here's a thought: Water boils at 100 degrees celsius, wood bend at 156 degrees. What is the point of the moisture if it has a cooling effect? Most professionals I know of who hand bend don't use water. I only use it when I am in danger of scorching the wood or out of desperation, need to soften a particularly awkward area of 'grain'. The secret of using a backstrap is to have it exactly the same width as your instrument side - that way you can control the piece better and get even pressure across the width of the rib against the iron.. Also you should 'chase' the heat - rocking on the iron is not helpful. Heat, then 'follows' this by keeping the wood in constant contact with the iron so that the heat 'creeps' along as you work. You're a clever kid so I am sure you will work this out :)
+Pete Howlett Steam can be any temperature you like. Water conducts heat far better than dry wood and then becomes steam within the cells. I imagine that's why all the sources I've read recommend it. Even dry wood contains moisture of course, which probably helps. I guess with experience I might be able to bend dry without scorching, but I don't see any disadvantages in using water.
It slows the process. Wood is a thermo plastic. As an engineer you will understand far better than me how the weakening of molecular bonds in long chain molecule arrays such as are in plastics works for you. There is always a point at which scorching may occur but you have to be right at the limits for that to happen. The guy who works for Huss and Dalton hand bends dry and has done thousands of instruments like this. Taylor guitars bend dry also... it really is a question of confidence. Some of the curly koa I use has such wide compression curls that bending without a back strap ends up with threepenny bit sides! As an inquisitive being, you may wish to conduct more tests. I can send you some wood samples to play with so you can see how they differ :)
I was thinking perhaps a light bulb inside a thin wall copper or stainless steel pipe. Keep it simple, cheap and easy to build with readily available materials. I may do a video myself on a DIY bending iron of this sort, perhaps early in the new year.
What a breath of fresh air you are. Most Luthier videos I watched tell you what can be done to show you how to do it. But you have taken the time to show us how it can be done, warts and all. Great work, Susan.
Susie, I think you did an incredible job! I would agree with you bending with a metal strap is not good because you don't get the same feel from the wood, it's an Art form when you bend any wood by free of other material because you know what the wood can take before breaking, the same holds true for how much water is used to keep the wood conditioned well. I have several classical guitars I purchased, and have tried wood bending through trial and error. This video was very detailed and, very informative in bending wood, Bravo!!!👍🤗♥️💪
Loving your stuff - I'm planning a similar project and you are doing all the methodical research for me! Your insights are incredibly valuable - thank you.
Magic to watch. I have done timber bending on a mandolin I made years ago...From my research the Lignin in the timber , under heat, releases the fibres to allow them to slip as well as compress. For those watching, it is a great experience to feel the once hard timber give way and bend.
Oh yes, I love the fact that you are not afraid to show your successes as well as blunders. Love this site!
Use a heating belt with temperature controller and wood former you will get much better results than localised heater .
Walnut roasting on an open iron... :-) The steel band wants to bend along it's center line, so if the clamping doesn't slip at all, it actually compresses the outside surface a bit too. That bend isn't as tight as the ones in some cutout models, so I think you won't have problems with it. I think the starp is a bit of an overkill when hand bending. It's usually a good idea to try to see, feel, hear and smell the wood as well as you can when working it. I generally don't like tools that take away from the sensory feedback.
+esa062 totally agree. I didn't feel in control using the strap
I steamed timbers for use as ribs and used the metal strap on the outside for the tighter curves and that worked well. It may be that if you steamed the side timbers you may have better results. You will only need to soak the timbers overnight and steam for half an hour. Good luck.
I built a FOX style bender and 3 - 200 watt light bulbs were used as my warming source. It has worked beautifully for years but the old style bulbs are becoming harder to obtain. It works very well for repeating side designs though.
Hi Susan.. I find I get real good "feel" by using thinner spring steel (I am using 0.20mm spring steel that offers minimal resistance)
The best I've found is from Theluthiersbench which is made for guitar with brass and steel handles.
Wood ideally should be bent under compression, which is why wood tends to split firstly on the outside of the curve being formed.
Pulling on the spring steel strap will " compress" the outside of the curve and with practice will give good results..... fingers crossed!!
Hey Susan I just saw your Sparktalk. Bravo. Your a woman of many talents. And here I thought you were just a great wood worker :)
Tears or fractures can be repaired with a shaped caul and super glue and are to be expected with some woods. I have better success with a spritz bottle (less water) and a stainless steel strap to encapsulate the wood.
Hi. Sue. Fantastic Demo really good, I think the clamps are compressing the wood which I think needs to expand to allow it to form correctly, just in my experiments. many thanks. Rudy.
Cool to watch. I’m bending veneer around a 4” cylinder. From what you have shown I think it will work.
When I cut wood, I ALWAYS use push shoes [rather than mere push sticks]. Forty some years later, I still have all my digits. Instead of relying so much on your hands and gloves, come up with a push stick about three inches tall and with a curve to do what one of your hands does.
Bending wood is whole new world of madness :) some woods are better in compression than tension. If you look into bow making and boat building they both bend wood . Steam seems to be the secret there and using a form to clamp the wood to. Having said that I've had some success bending wood with a heat gun. I'm no expert so have only dabbled in this.Hope this opens up a few other options for you to look into. Love the videos :)
Hi suzie
Thanks for the information on such a tricky subject. I was just wondering if you had ever looked at the bending of longbows as another area of experience on this. The stretch (or creep, as the wood is not really elastic enough to imply stretch and return) and compression principles are naturally the same and are used in bowery to maximum possible effect to get the most efficient bow, that is, how to get maximum springback. One of the most effective ways of doing this on a bow is to add a creep resistant backing to the outside curve of the bow. Analogous to the way you are using the clamped steel strap.
I make English longbows as well as a few instruments (currently working on a baroque lute with 11 bent ribs) and its really interesting to see how the same material science applies to both disciplines.
Anyway, thanks for your time and best wishes
Nick Adams
as a woodworker i would recommend either building yourself a small steam box or going down the laminating route im not a musician so i dont know if that would effect the sound but laminating would be your best bet
I enjoyed all your shows, but as a musician I love your "theme song!"
Probably a bit late :) BLACK BODY RADIATION: A black surface will radiate more heat than a white one or a metallic one. In fact a polished metal surface will radiate the least. So, your infra red temp sensor wont be giving you accurate readings. Once you contact the surface with the wood, well, that's conduction and different rules apply.
looks like you picked the correct time of year to work over the top of a hot iron Susan. Happy New Year from New Zealand.
Susan, you do very well!
you could aways laminate two thinner pieces together to get a tighter curve.
...yes, but there's always sound loose involving glue, i mean, diferences between a "one piece" wood & several laminated thin ones are too notorious, far beyond is much easyer.
I have an idea wich could make it much easier, and that is if you make 2 holes at both ends of the steel strap, then you tied a rope at both holes and you take this rope around your waist. So your free hands are free to just guide the piece of wood.
please keep the good work and keep smiling ⚘ regards
Hassan
I thing it should be easier if you entered the wood in boiling water and leave them for about 10 minutes and then try to clump on mold made of woods
Hello, I have been watching some of your videos for a while now and I've been enjoying them especially when you give little tips and tricks. So I thought I would give one to you pipeline build RC models, and If you sock thin strips of wood in Ammonia you can bend them without a heater.
+George Cooper I'd heard of that but never investigated. I'll check it out
was a pleasure bumping into you in Axminster this evening. a tad surreal also!
+BeTheGrayMan Hope you got some nice tools :-)
Susan Gardener just a little butt chisel to clean up dovetail joints and see what their new range of chisels are like. and a intense need for a low angle jack plane
Hmm. Watching back to front. I used to make wooden miniatures. I had a set of (model) buggy wheels to make, maybe 6 cm. diameter, in birch. Broke lots of them. Finally used a household pressure cooker. Worked. For your scale I think a pressure canner would do. Big enough. Steam is the thing. Live steam. Pressure helps, which is why I suggest a canner. And it takes time to steam wood. . The way you are doing it may or may not work. You are relying on the heater thingy to turn moisture into steam. But very little time to do it. And a jig to clamp the bent piece to (awful English!) is essential. Once you have steamed the piece, you have to work fast. Anyway we all have different experiences, just giving you mine.
I was surprised that the clamping method worked better than using the strap as a floating support. I would have thought that the outer shearing forces would increase using a clamped strap.
I would also presume that wood, being a natural, organic material, might lack structural homogeneity, and this being the case, might therefore require a greater sample population to produce a reliable data set and preferred method.
It was an interesting demonstration, nevertheless.
Enjoyable video as usual. What gauge/thickness bending steel were you using? Love that offset body shape! I see you're creeping up on 6k subs!
Hey Susan! Been watching your videos for a couple of months now and really enjoy them! I love to experiment and sadly, these days too many people think things are failures if they do not go well the first time! That is just a learning experience... huge value in that considering the alternative of always having to do it right... who would learn or create or invent? So... Of course I was wondering... how about using the clamped strap to go to some portion of the radius, then going free style for the rest. It would give some compression to eliminate the over-stretching and would also return your tactile sense for detecting the onset of failure. I wonder how sharp a good bend you could get that way. I have only tried a little bending and for that I steamed the entire piece and then clamped it into a form that was a little sharper than the final to compensate for spring-back - which you do automatically while hand bending on the heated bending form. Keep learning!
Nice work Susie
thank you Susan
Love your sweater/jacket
I was admiring the blouse underneath - a good combo!
I subscribed just so I can listen to you talk about stuff
Have you watched Robbie O'Brian's video? I don't do it his way because of the curly wood I use. Bending dry is preferred because you are having to heat up the moisture you have introduced. I'd have my sides 2.2mm thick. Walnut is a breeze to bend, however the recent Claro walnut I have been dry bending has given off toxic fumes when bending so I have had to use a air purifying mask... Watching you bend, you are not 'chasing the heat'. Of the 1600 sides I have hand bent I can guarantee that everyone has performed differently even from consecutive slices from the same board. And remember, wood is a thermo plastic - the heat is there to break the molecular bonds... that's why it 'flops' like plastic she heated. BTW- I have several instruments where I had to straighten a side out because it was bent the wrong way round for a book match!
BTW: I use .2mm stainless shim stock. Can't get on with spring steel.
+Pete Howlett I've seen most of Robbie's videos but I can't remember a bending video. Can you post a link? (I'll have to approve the comment as the link will put it in my spam folder)
You will find it through the search function... here's a thought: Water boils at 100 degrees celsius, wood bend at 156 degrees. What is the point of the moisture if it has a cooling effect? Most professionals I know of who hand bend don't use water. I only use it when I am in danger of scorching the wood or out of desperation, need to soften a particularly awkward area of 'grain'. The secret of using a backstrap is to have it exactly the same width as your instrument side - that way you can control the piece better and get even pressure across the width of the rib against the iron.. Also you should 'chase' the heat - rocking on the iron is not helpful. Heat, then 'follows' this by keeping the wood in constant contact with the iron so that the heat 'creeps' along as you work. You're a clever kid so I am sure you will work this out :)
+Pete Howlett Steam can be any temperature you like. Water conducts heat far better than dry wood and then becomes steam within the cells. I imagine that's why all the sources I've read recommend it. Even dry wood contains moisture of course, which probably helps. I guess with experience I might be able to bend dry without scorching, but I don't see any disadvantages in using water.
It slows the process. Wood is a thermo plastic. As an engineer you will understand far better than me how the weakening of molecular bonds in long chain molecule arrays such as are in plastics works for you. There is always a point at which scorching may occur but you have to be right at the limits for that to happen. The guy who works for Huss and Dalton hand bends dry and has done thousands of instruments like this. Taylor guitars bend dry also... it really is a question of confidence. Some of the curly koa I use has such wide compression curls that bending without a back strap ends up with threepenny bit sides! As an inquisitive being, you may wish to conduct more tests. I can send you some wood samples to play with so you can see how they differ :)
I've done a LiveStream on my Facebook Club on bending.
Your bending iron looks pristine - not at all like mine!
Were did you buy the hot iron to bend?
Cool!
How did you arrive at that plantilla design?
Is that a DIY bending iron?
It’s not DIY, it’s a commercial unit. I’m guessing you’re going to want to know the brand?
no thanks. I was more wanting to build my own bending Iron
Good luck. A blow torch inside a steel pipe is the method I’ve seen, but it can be tricky if you want a variable radius
I was thinking perhaps a light bulb inside a thin wall copper or stainless steel pipe. Keep it simple, cheap and easy to build with readily available materials. I may do a video myself on a DIY bending iron of this sort, perhaps early in the new year.
I hope that’s powerful enough to keep the temperature up. My iron doesn’t have a power rating on it. It’s a caramillo btw
I hope walnut's cheap.
Good to see that the woodprix has new instructions to save my money and energy to build it.
Is that Dia de los Muertos or Grateful Dead?
Do you even realize how much you are screwing with everything I don't know about bending, but guessed at from the many other web sites?
;)
I can bend mine just far enough to use the toilet in the morning.
I knew it
Groan.
When you get to be an old man, your wood will be easy to bend because it won't nearly as hard as it used to. Hahahahha!
Sue, you can try to bend my wood any time
I can make it myself. Just got instructions from woodprix website and I'm ready for do it :D
My husband uses these plans from Woodglut and is very happy with them. However. I love yours!