I think the funniest thing about this Thief is how much it wrecks Gritty Realism games. I didn't realize that until someone reminded me those games exist. Link to the Kobold Plushie: my-store-c2baed.creator-spring.com/listing/buy-kobold?product=2444&variation=106876
Sorcerer 1 Theif X: Bonus action to spell rage, Cast true strike. Turn 2 Bonus action True strike (scroll doesnt matter if made or bought), Action READY true strike. You get all but free advantage and your DPR is high
fun fact in italian we don't have an exact translation for rogue so we call all dnd rogues thieves, and the thief subclass is called something like the scoundrel but I like to call it the thief thief
@@Chatterscompany I would think in most applications of the word, "scoundrel" fits. Rogues do what they do is some sort of underhanded way. Scoundrels are scoundrels because they're underhanded. The only rogue archetype where scoundrel wouldn't necessarily fit is the investigator/detective, depending on if said archetype manages to keep their hands clean or not.
@@Chatterscompanyenglish is a weird language, it has hyper specific words for a very broad idea, and it also has the word tear and tear be written in the exact manter but be pronounced in a different way for no reason.
That’s been my evaluation too since they released the 2024 changes. AT was the best rogue subclass simply because of what spell casting offers. However the sacrificing a sneak attack die to trip someone makes versatile trickster mostly useless, the expanded spell list makes spell thief unnecessary other than just a once a day cancel button on a spell. The expanded spell list is a fantastic buff for flavor and it heavily buffs the magical ambush ability. Really any subclass features after level 9 are seemingly unnecessary for AT. The thief with like 3 levels in wizard would absolutely be a better sneaky spell caster than the AT. If they wanted AT to feel more wizardly I think giving them a spell book like a wizard would be much better.
@@GamingRemo ya but honestly I feel like Arcane Trickster’s only appeal is spell casting. It’s nice that the limits have changed with a broader spell list but I’d still probably prefer roguelock or wizard/rogue tbh
Showering the martials in magic items is the time-old tradition to the martial caster gap. Because when you have so much spellcasting freely available for everyone it kind of stops mattering what class you are
Honestly this reminds me of “items users” in lots of RPGs. I really like the concept of them and I might play a thief for my next character because of this. My first and only rogue was a thief and they had tavern brawler and would basically just throw random BS. My DM actually gave me a magic item that was a bag where I can grab a random item from it. It was fun.
I play a barbarian rogue with a full backpack... i really like the soul knife totem warrior, but thief is sounding pretty good. (rage advantage, expertise athletics, a minimum 10, and psionic knack) we just kind of accept that imma grab someone and bonus action dash away with them
A Thief with a Wizard dip is the Rogue I’m most excited to play. I think it’d be best with any elf to have shorter long rests, that means you can scribe a scroll while the party is resting any time you can get 12 hours of down time.
Elves get the benefit of a long rest after 4 hours of trancing, but that doesn't mean everything else that they could do during a long rest takes only 4 hours.
@@RokuroCarisu You rest while resting. Then you get a free 4 hours of scribing. That means all you need is 4 extra hours to finish a first level scroll, that’s 12 total hours.
Sure - elf / thief rogue / scribes wiz - make your own scrolls on a lower cd. I also think thief mixed with artificer making your own items could be cool
For spell scroll price: I think that scrolls will more likely follow the spellcasting services price tag (which is also in chapter 6). Cantrip and 1st level spell price for services completely match the scroll. It's funny how the ability to use spell scrolls as a BA (due to magic action use) makes this the best Rogue. I'll definetly play this if I get a rich campaign.
A Thief Rogue, with a single level multiclass in a caster class with True Strike, can cheaply craft a cantrip Scroll of True Strike (15 gold each); using the scroll as a bonus action and using its Action to Ready an Attack or to cast True Strike again on another turn, it can easily Double Dip on Sneak Attack. In 2014 there where tactics and multiclass to do this, but now for a Thief it is extremely easy and it can do this with both a melee or ranged weapon.
The thief was a class I fell in love with in a high seas campaign. We ruled that many actions aboard the ship were object interactions, mostly this didnt matter, loading a cannon was an object interaction instead of an actual "reload" action (as per "loading" weapons). Everyone gets an object interaction for free so this let everyone do their own thing, while still doing "ship" things on their turn. This made crew members valuable because they made things more efficient, load a cannon with your object interaction and on the crew's initiative round they'll fire it, then reload it. You could fire a loaded cannon as a free action or a main action, but as you only get 1 of those each per turn (haste and such notwithstanding) it would mean if you didn't keep on top of your reloads, you'd have "off" turns, since ship repairs, bailing water, changing heading and more were also tied to the free action. As you can imagine, having an extra object interaction meant my thief was able to make a much larger difference. I could reload two cannons instead of just one. Boat movement was handled like lair actions, where at the top of the round the boats would move in a path along their heading, being able to change the heading twice (alongside assistance from our druid) allowed us to be more maneuverable. I could raise and lower sails more often, I could make repairs twice as often (and I could use my action to "Help" our ship's carpenter, making the man doing the bulk of repairs even BETTER at his job). Still, all the while I felt this was such a niche case because of how the rules are worded. I know *most* DMs were of the mind to allow thief rogues to do what the *new* thief is doing, most DMs ive encountered were like "you're a thief? yeah ok you can use your bonus action to use a magic item" because the thief's entire gimmick was that it was a rogue who could use magical things without needing to dip a caster or be an arcane trickster. Now, of course, this just means the wizard is still the best class in the game. It just means that the BEST wizards are likely to start their career as thieves. Which makes me wonder just how meta we can get without dipping Sorcerer...
The best thieves know when it's best to go through proper channels and when it's best to go through your own! A locked-up thief is of no use, after all.
I would add that the Rogue Thief is the most fun for a creative-thinking player. The bonus action can be useful for sooooo many options, both mundane and magical.
Something I think you might want to note (if you haven't already, it wasn't mentioned in the video) is how good the new Surprising Strike options are when combined with most spells or mundane equipment. DCs to break your ropes or manacles are a lot harder to achieve if you're poisoned!
I think one thing you need to consider when serial-casting scrolls is the limit of one free object interaction per turn, unless the DM lets you carry an entire stack of scrolls in one hand. Of course, attack action plus bonus scroll is always possible even with only one free interaction per turn.
So we've got a rogue who specializes in stealing and using magic items to make up for whatever shortcomings you might have as a character. So Big Jack Horner from The Last Wish. Fun.
Thief Rogue/Bladesinger multiclass might be the gishiest gish in the game now. Consistently casting spells (not just blade cantrips) and making weapon attacks on the same turn. Sounds super fun.
THANK YOU! This is one of the first awesome interactions I noticed when first looking through the 2024 rules and I’ve been waiting for someone to cover it. Very excited to play a thief/wizard with these rules
Also, another advantage of Fast Hands is that it lets you don or doff a shield as a Bonus Action. I don't really know if there is a build that can capitalize this, but I think it's nice little quirk.
Wandslinger Thief is real. I would pump some breaks on the excitement over scrolls though. Making one takes considerable amount of downtime (which is scarce in most of campaigns) and 1000gp per party member is definitely not an early tier 1 quest. Lastly, let us not forget that to make a scroll you need special ink and paper which are available at towns at the DMs discretion. I don't know what group PackTactics is playing with but no DM I know would go like: 'Sure you can find and fund enough materials and spend a week, ignoring any and all urgency in the story to make few spell scrolls to break the balance of the encounters I prepared!'
From multiple other videos, I can confidently guess that kobold plays in high treasure games. Way more gold than average game, but nowhere to put it due to lack of magic shops. He gets like thousands of gp at tier 2, and has "unlimited gold" by tier 3. Not sure about his downtime tho.
Think about this logically like what is common in tier 1? 200 gold for quest complete + ofc the loot? the little silver ring is maybe 20 gold, the little statue is 50 gold and so on. Skin the dead wolves, sell the skin to a leatherworker or whatever they're called. With tabletop freedom you can basically make money out of anything, it's a reward for creativity. Sometimes that doesn't work because you're playing curse of Strahd or some other brutal setting but for majority of games even with low magic items setting, getting money is very easy. Also time sensitive quests: They absolutely exist but usually as soon as you finish a quest, you can have a few days of downtime. With you and the wizard having a single day of downtime, In 16 hours both of you create 4 1st lvl scrolls in total for only 100 gold and you get the long rest. That should be enough for an adventuring day. You also have your slots from 1st lvl wizard dip, that's 2 slots, Arcane recover that's 1 and 4 scrolls so in total you have 7 resource slots. That's as much as like a 4th level caster. That's should be enough to complete the next quest.
@@arcturuslight_ You should have unlimited gold by tier 3 if you have a full caster. Also the DMG has guidelines for the amount of loot you should be getting.
WotC: I know, we should let the spell casters craft a 9th level spell scroll in 120 days (and can sell and make 50000gp profit) or just craft a 1st level spell scroll a day (and make 25gp profit per day), but someone proficient with smith tools has to take 150 days to craft plate armor (and make 750gp profit (5gp per day)) This just made me check Xanathar's crafting magic item (which sets crafting in work weeks (5 day)), and it takes 30 work weeks to craft plain plate armor, 25 work weeks for +2 armor and 10 work weeks to craft +1 armor. Makes sense that you can craft +2 plate armor faster than you can craft plain plate armor.
One thing to mention is that booming blade or green flame blade scrolls are super important because they let you get two sneak attacks around by bonus action to use the scroll and using you main action to ready an attack after your turn ends. Previously it was pretty difficult to do this consistently without help from other party members. 26 avg damage a round at level 3 assuming both attacks hit and your dex mod is 3. The cantrips also scale for more damage as you mentioned..
I think high elf will work decently well for thief rogue (provided getting a cantrip from your race allows to make it into a spell scroll), using bonus action fast hands to read a scroll of true strike, hold your action to cast true strike again on another turn and with the other thief features we should be able to manage positioning fairely well. 😂😊
You can make the scroll, but unfortunately can’t use the scroll. A spell has to be on your class spell list for you to cast it from a scroll, so a 1 level wizard dip would be a necessity.
The oddest thing is the best litmus for any sort of magic item is spell components. Clerics seem to have the most varied and most annotated costs, so if D&D had a base economy it would be Cleric spell components. You could say equipment tables, but the cost of most equipment, even full plate is durable (more than a one time use) and still relatively inexpensive compared to spell components.
I've been exited about the thief rogue since the first time I saw it in the playtest. Back then it was seen through the lens of you cannot cast any spells other than a cantrip if you cast a bonus action spell. Seeing as that rule has changed, it has gone from great to incredible!
Yeah, Mike from CCMC was talking about this. He got the idea from one of his patrons. The Brilliant Thief. Basically using fast hands to cast true strike from a scroll as a bonus action, then hold your action until the next turn to cast true strike normally to get two sneak attacks every round. You'd want to do this ranged with a shortbow for the vex property and because you've used your reaction that round and can't use uncanny dodge or shield, assuming you took the wizard dip. Expensive, but incredibly cool. And as Pack demonstrates, it gets better as you level up. Not only does true strike scale (and do radiant damage), but the capstone gives you FOUR sneak attacks in one turn. (At the cost of two cantrip scrolls) That's insane!
In my experience, most GMs that run the gritty realism rules change all of the system’s features to match the longer timescale, not just rests (otherwise daily magic scroll scribing would be setting warping).
Thief rogue is also REALLY good when combined with the Healer feat & Healing kits, also pairs well with the MotM Hobgoblin rework. You can output a very useable amount of NON MAGICAL healing, which depending on setting can change the game exponentially. I REALLY like how well you can combine this with stuff like the crafter starting feat to output a TON of item effects or Buffing effects.
I had a char like this. It was a crosbowoman thattreated magic healing like some people treat actual meds and vaccines. "Did you know that magic increases the risk of illnesses" "You dont know what the 'healer' might be doing alongside the magic 'heal', he surely is planting some sort of tracking spell on you or suggestion magic" "Trust mw i know what i am doikg by using this knives i can remove the infected tissue to prevent this thing called bacteria from harming you" (usually bacteria is overlooked as why tf would you understand bacterias if it dies with magic all the same) And my favorite: "What will you do if your patient is alergic to magic? You will kill him!" NOONE was alergic to magic and all of that was bs i was making up in the fly it was GREAT.
During the playtest, I played a thief rogue levels 3-20 (we leveled up each session), and we had fun magic items given throughout the adventure, including scrolls! I had a wand of magic missiles which made my damage decent, but the real fun was the scrolls. We were given a good amount, and once I hit level 13 the party ended up giving most of them to me. It was a super fun jack of all trades caster at that point. Great video!
i think a missed point here was that rogues using cantrip bonus action truestrike can get sneak attack with that attack, then hold your action to get sneak attack again as a reaction, this is a 15 good investment each round, but reliable damage is worth it
@@williambradford6575 you can scribe the spells, but can’t cast them unfortunately. A spell has to be on your class spell list to be cast from a scroll.
I thought exactly the same: being able to bonus action cast a level spell with wands, scrolls and staffs is just insane. Other youtubers didn't get the idea that the Thief is a caster like any other spellcaster, specially if you have a Wizard in your party.
7:50 To your point, double casting is quite a bit better than casting with adv/dis because if you hit with the first you can do something else with the second: different action, spell, target, or just do the same thing and get double the damage. Can't do that with adv/dis.
Thief 9 / Illusionist 3 seems like it could be a fun build. Thief for all that thieving goodness, illusionist for the spells, and bonus action minor illusion in particular, in case there's no cover nearby, you can just create your own.
I like the combo of a thief rogue using cunning strike to impose the poisoned condition on a creature. Then as a bonus action casting summon undead putrid form to attack and impose paralyzed condition with no save to setup auto crits.
With a little multiclassing you can start with thief Rogue, then any wizard for scribe scroll, and finally Pally, so you can keep your smites going without burning spell slots.
Even if a DM moves to nerf this somewhat, limiting you to one Magic action per turn, and limiting the number of spell scrolls you can create per day through gold stinginess, this is still good. Main action sneak attack, then a magic item, your own leveled spell, item or scroll as well.
If you've ever played Fallout or the Elder Scrolls games, when you pickpocket someone, not only can you take things from a character's inventory, but you can place items as well. It's called reverse pickpocketing. There's absolutely no reason you can't use the same skill to do the same thing. Plant an open bottle of Alchemist's fire in their pocket. Or a bomb. Or a live mimic... Something. Put something in their pocket that they don't want in there.
One of my favourite moments in dnd was when the fighter/hexblade realized that Wand of Magic Missiles didn't require attunement, so he used Action Surge to dual wield two of them, spending all charges with his hexblade's curse, dealing 18d4+90 force damage with no save. (he made sure to wait until after they spent their reaction because he knew they had the shield spell prepared)
I'd like to point out that the wands can be upcast. Level 7 Magic Missile as a bonus action with a 1-in-6 chance to not spend any of the 7 charges you blew from the wand is AMAZING. Have a dozen of those and you'll never run out of missiles to throw.
Lvl 9 feature is great for what I call hidden in obscurity X (rogue, ranger, barbarian? Etc) hiding inside something like a fog cloud (we'll need blind sense, but the skulker feat would have been a good choice anyway) and maybe a spell like blink will really make it hard to pin you down. (I'm starting to really like gestalt artificer {probably battle smith}/rogue thief, since artificer gets a lot of great spells, reduction for magic gear crafting, CON save proficiency, high AC and we benefit massively damagewise from rogue. I might still be missing some other reasons why this would be a great combo.)
You could also make an int or cha based thief rogue that focuses on making true strike scrolls. Use your bonus action to cast true strike and ready nother true strike to get 2 sneak attacks per turn
I think my perception of cost in DnD is not the common one. In my current campaign, our party recently hit LVL 9. Before that, our entire party income from all quests we did was less than 1000 total (we did get a handful of potions on top of that). And here Kobold is basically suggesting spending 150+ GP on a single encounter.
Usually, level 1 nets you enough to buy a tool or two, or maybe upgrade a piece of armor if you multiclass. Levels 2 and 3 normally let you upgrade your armor and/or buy your tool kits, and maybe a spell component or two. Levels 4 and 5 are normally when you're getting some real money. If you've scrounged, you're probably approaching buying your best possible armor before magic items. You may also have enough money to buy fare on an inexpensive ship already heading somewhere. The party could collectively buy a small cottage on the outskirts of town or a run-down business, if they haven't gotten any kind of home base or keep to operate out of. By level 6-7, you have plate armor money and the party could pool resources for a decent keep or a building downtown. You can easily charter a ship to sail just your party somewhere and back. Hirelings or followers are viable and likely already present. 8-9th level you're in the realm of expensive spell components, buying a ship or other vehicle for the party to sail on, or trying to buy relevant magic items if you have nothing better to spend money on. Beyond that gets wild. You'll likely see 10,000+ gold per player per level, and it will only go up from there. It's viable to buy a company, or possibly pay for a small standing army. You can also hire out teams of level 5+ adventurers to tackle tasks appropriate to their level that you can't be bothered with. That said, I've seen both games where by level 5, the party is lucky to have drinking money, and games where by 5th level, the party has thousands of gold to spend, or are decked out in magic items. It really varies by campaign, game tone, and table. It's part of why a session 0 is so important to set expectations and ask questions! If you want to play a resource-heavy character, it's important to ask the DM if your party will see a good amount of wealth and ample money-making opportunities, or if you'll be Cowboy Bebopping it.
We just started a new campaign when the new PH came. I went thief!!! We started at 3 and taking it all the way to 20. At level 5 now, I'm going to take a level of Wizard at some point but taking Thief to 19. Looking forward to shenanigans. The eventual two-turns round 1... Four uses of scrolls/magic items in a single round, dammers lol
@@callumwhitmore1107 Wdym Level 17? With 1 Level in Warlock you can cast Eldritch Blast as an action. With 3 levels in Rogue you can cast Eldritch Blast as a Bonus Action using a scroll. Explain what I’m missing here
Certainly a wild and fun idea - I'd love to play a shopping addicted Elf that never has gold but buys all the scrolls and wands (maybe he always wanted to be a mage but had not talent x) ))
Here is my idea about using scrolls for money. Magic shops don't have to exist if there is a guild for adventurers. Or just for mercenary work of any sort and class. Because scrolls are so useful it would make any who can use them drool. So naturally such guilds may have in house shops to restock certain niche items. So you could be dropping scrolls while looking for a quick job before the next big haul.
Did you mention True Strike Scrolls? Cast with Bonus Action, then ready your main action for another cast(just get the spell for this one). At level 5 with a short bow, that’s 10d6+8 and you can focus Int over Dex.
Man the Thief rogue looks very fun an thematic now, but as an Arcane Trickster fan, I wish Versatile Trickster did something with Magic Items or Spell scrolls too, instead of the tripping feature they have :/
I think it's weird that the thief subclass is so focused on magic scrolls and stuff when we have the arcane trickster. That being said, am I crazy for thinking I'd rather just have scrolls be loot dropped from enemies or found in dungeons than just have them purchasable through shops?
I did say magic shops are rare on that poll but to be fair they are thematically rare but consistently there is at least 1 across all my games that last more than 3 sessions.
My friend has a traveling magic shop in his campaigns that hus old lvl 20 artificer runs. He even gives us a membership card that glows when were near his shop.
If I ever do run a magic shop It will be like a normal store in New York, with everything behind magical lock and key to prevent sticky hands as much as possible
In Original 5e, I always thought the mainstay for Thief was bonus action use poison and when the attack hits, you get your oppoenet in the poisoned condition.
Xanathar's Guide has a "Buying a Magic Item" section under the downtime activities. This is what we use and yes, while there are magic shops, the chance of them having what you actually want is random based on a roll as is the price. It works out fairly well for our style of play.
one thing to consider for scribing your own scrolls is if you have a DM willing to give you a headband of intellect you can dump int 90% of the time and then just attune to it during downtime to make your DC and attack bonus on your scrolls better and then just go back to being stupid while you adventure lol
Anyone else noticed two potential missing class from PHB 2024. All images of persons have text under them like " do something" or " doing somthing" and in book there are two images with text like "Inventor do something" "and "Investigator do something". Two missing classes, Inventor and investigator? Ranger put into book in place of this two classes, at last possible time?
Given the fact we know the hasbro CEO went on a ranting speach about how they're gonna and already are using A.I it wouldn't surprise me that the reason these classes keep getting these massive loop holes is because they're feeding features through A.I and then scrape homebrew.
So economically speaking, value is technically subjective. It depends entirely on what the seller wants for it and how much the buyer is willing to spend. For example, i bought my house for 216k. It's a small home with an add on on an acre in the woods. Pretty cheap house, nothing crazy. However, it's the first house my wife and i have owned and we're raising our kids in it. I love livng in the woods with some land. It could be appraised at the 216k i paid, but i wouldn't want to sell it for any less than 400k because of the value it has to me personally. I also don't intend to sell it, i want to pass it on to my kids in a few decades. This easily applies to homebrew values in dnd. If scolls are as abundant as the air itself and you can make them easily and get them anywhere, then as a seller, you have to lower prices for the competiton. But if you have one scroll and magic is very rare, you could ask any price you want
At 13th level, yes. Before that, you’re going to need a caster dip as you can only cast a spell from a scroll if that spell is on your class spell list.
The thief will be awesome with wands and other items. However, I fear it is an easy ruling against using scrolls with Fast Hands! If scrolls were meant to be used with the magic action's "use a magic item that requires a magic action", then the rule would have said so. Instead, it clearly states that scroll are 'read' and then you CAST THE SPELL. Magic action let you (1)"cast a spell", (2) use an ability, or (3) use a magic item that requires a magic action. Fast Hands text clearly matches (3) and the scroll description clearly matches (1). That is rules as written. Thief is still awesome, but the DM can control the balance with item distribution. Artificers create items.... so Thief/artificer might be fun for all.
The problem here is when the dm is being really stingy with gold. Current campaign I'm in has seen like maybe 10k total in the party at 8th. Edit: this is after scrapping the region and having a money generating company made. still poor.
I think the funniest thing about this Thief is how much it wrecks Gritty Realism games. I didn't realize that until someone reminded me those games exist.
Link to the Kobold Plushie: my-store-c2baed.creator-spring.com/listing/buy-kobold?product=2444&variation=106876
Sorcerer 1 Theif X: Bonus action to spell rage, Cast true strike. Turn 2 Bonus action True strike (scroll doesnt matter if made or bought), Action READY true strike.
You get all but free advantage and your DPR is high
@@RazdasoldierNew true strike isn't a spell attack, is a weapon attack made with your spellcasting ability
@@snitram2332 And? That makes it work better with spell bought scrolls and it still works with sorcerer's Innate sorcery
In a gritty game the spell catnap becomes kinda good, make some for your friendly battlemaster fighter and watch them do anything to protect you.
It's funny that this thief works mechanically in a way many people think wizards work, getting wildly stronger the more gold and scrolls you find.
Jack Horner from Puss in boots is a Thief Rogue.
Have you seen how he swings Excalibur with the stone, and his rage about not having any magic?
He’s a Barbarian.
He didn't seem to proficient with it.
@@LocalMaple he can be both, rogue/barbarian is a great combo
A Rogue with High Str score. How else would such massive man swing a sword embedded to rock at three bears and knock them all out without high str?
@@BunMoony rogues have proficiency with longswords
fun fact in italian we don't have an exact translation for rogue so we call all dnd rogues thieves, and the thief subclass is called something like the scoundrel but I like to call it the thief thief
"Thief Squared." ;)
More languages don't have this weirdly. I always found it strange that english is the only one I know that has the word rogue
@@Chatterscompany I would think in most applications of the word, "scoundrel" fits. Rogues do what they do is some sort of underhanded way. Scoundrels are scoundrels because they're underhanded. The only rogue archetype where scoundrel wouldn't necessarily fit is the investigator/detective, depending on if said archetype manages to keep their hands clean or not.
@@brentchance1589 Law Enforcement Detectives and Ingestigators are the biggest Scoundrels of the lot!!
@@Chatterscompanyenglish is a weird language, it has hyper specific words for a very broad idea, and it also has the word tear and tear be written in the exact manter but be pronounced in a different way for no reason.
So, they potentially made the Thief a better Arcane Trickster than the Arcane Trickster? Neat.
That’s been my evaluation too since they released the 2024 changes. AT was the best rogue subclass simply because of what spell casting offers. However the sacrificing a sneak attack die to trip someone makes versatile trickster mostly useless, the expanded spell list makes spell thief unnecessary other than just a once a day cancel button on a spell. The expanded spell list is a fantastic buff for flavor and it heavily buffs the magical ambush ability. Really any subclass features after level 9 are seemingly unnecessary for AT. The thief with like 3 levels in wizard would absolutely be a better sneaky spell caster than the AT. If they wanted AT to feel more wizardly I think giving them a spell book like a wizard would be much better.
Well, no. The Arcane Trickster has innate spellcasting, it actually has magical power. Thief is just a cooler Arcane Trickster. LOL
@@GamingRemo ya but honestly I feel like Arcane Trickster’s only appeal is spell casting. It’s nice that the limits have changed with a broader spell list but I’d still probably prefer roguelock or wizard/rogue tbh
100%, you just need 1 ring of spell storing and a caster friend that can lend you some spells.
Showering the martials in magic items is the time-old tradition to the martial caster gap. Because when you have so much spellcasting freely available for everyone it kind of stops mattering what class you are
seize the means of spellcasting
Honestly this reminds me of “items users” in lots of RPGs. I really like the concept of them and I might play a thief for my next character because of this.
My first and only rogue was a thief and they had tavern brawler and would basically just throw random BS. My DM actually gave me a magic item that was a bag where I can grab a random item from it. It was fun.
I play a barbarian rogue with a full backpack... i really like the soul knife totem warrior, but thief is sounding pretty good. (rage advantage, expertise athletics, a minimum 10, and psionic knack) we just kind of accept that imma grab someone and bonus action dash away with them
That’s cool idea I was going to play giant barbarian with tavern brawler who did the same thing
Kinda the idea behind the thaumaturge from pf2e
A Thief with a Wizard dip is the Rogue I’m most excited to play. I think it’d be best with any elf to have shorter long rests, that means you can scribe a scroll while the party is resting any time you can get 12 hours of down time.
If the RAW hasn't changed in 2024, you can't work more than 8 hours
Elves get the benefit of a long rest after 4 hours of trancing, but that doesn't mean everything else that they could do during a long rest takes only 4 hours.
@@RokuroCarisu You rest while resting. Then you get a free 4 hours of scribing. That means all you need is 4 extra hours to finish a first level scroll, that’s 12 total hours.
Sure - elf / thief rogue / scribes wiz - make your own scrolls on a lower cd.
I also think thief mixed with artificer making your own items could be cool
@@ChickenSoupMusicadd the crafter feat to that
Glad somebody on RUclips making videos remembered Illusionist's Bracers exist. Those things are awesome!
The ‘littlest optimizer’ plush is adorable.
For spell scroll price: I think that scrolls will more likely follow the spellcasting services price tag (which is also in chapter 6). Cantrip and 1st level spell price for services completely match the scroll.
It's funny how the ability to use spell scrolls as a BA (due to magic action use) makes this the best Rogue. I'll definetly play this if I get a rich campaign.
A Thief Rogue, with a single level multiclass in a caster class with True Strike, can cheaply craft a cantrip Scroll of True Strike (15 gold each); using the scroll as a bonus action and using its Action to Ready an Attack or to cast True Strike again on another turn, it can easily Double Dip on Sneak Attack. In 2014 there where tactics and multiclass to do this, but now for a Thief it is extremely easy and it can do this with both a melee or ranged weapon.
Oh shoot
The thief was a class I fell in love with in a high seas campaign. We ruled that many actions aboard the ship were object interactions, mostly this didnt matter, loading a cannon was an object interaction instead of an actual "reload" action (as per "loading" weapons). Everyone gets an object interaction for free so this let everyone do their own thing, while still doing "ship" things on their turn. This made crew members valuable because they made things more efficient, load a cannon with your object interaction and on the crew's initiative round they'll fire it, then reload it. You could fire a loaded cannon as a free action or a main action, but as you only get 1 of those each per turn (haste and such notwithstanding) it would mean if you didn't keep on top of your reloads, you'd have "off" turns, since ship repairs, bailing water, changing heading and more were also tied to the free action.
As you can imagine, having an extra object interaction meant my thief was able to make a much larger difference. I could reload two cannons instead of just one. Boat movement was handled like lair actions, where at the top of the round the boats would move in a path along their heading, being able to change the heading twice (alongside assistance from our druid) allowed us to be more maneuverable. I could raise and lower sails more often, I could make repairs twice as often (and I could use my action to "Help" our ship's carpenter, making the man doing the bulk of repairs even BETTER at his job).
Still, all the while I felt this was such a niche case because of how the rules are worded. I know *most* DMs were of the mind to allow thief rogues to do what the *new* thief is doing, most DMs ive encountered were like "you're a thief? yeah ok you can use your bonus action to use a magic item" because the thief's entire gimmick was that it was a rogue who could use magical things without needing to dip a caster or be an arcane trickster.
Now, of course, this just means the wizard is still the best class in the game. It just means that the BEST wizards are likely to start their career as thieves. Which makes me wonder just how meta we can get without dipping Sorcerer...
Anyone find it kind of funny hearing kobold talk about the logistics of the THIEF buying things. 😂
The best thieves know when it's best to go through proper channels and when it's best to go through your own! A locked-up thief is of no use, after all.
Just steal the money back later
I would add that the Rogue Thief is the most fun for a creative-thinking player. The bonus action can be useful for sooooo many options, both mundane and magical.
Something I think you might want to note (if you haven't already, it wasn't mentioned in the video) is how good the new Surprising Strike options are when combined with most spells or mundane equipment. DCs to break your ropes or manacles are a lot harder to achieve if you're poisoned!
This is smart. I'm going to keep that in mind. Thank you.
I think one thing you need to consider when serial-casting scrolls is the limit of one free object interaction per turn, unless the DM lets you carry an entire stack of scrolls in one hand. Of course, attack action plus bonus scroll is always possible even with only one free interaction per turn.
So we've got a rogue who specializes in stealing and using magic items to make up for whatever shortcomings you might have as a character.
So Big Jack Horner from The Last Wish.
Fun.
That's a sick concept build lol
Thief with ANY Tools are awesome.
the huge brain idea of adding acual content to a self promo segment
Soon he’ll be optimizing the universe
It's optimal!
Thief Rogue/Bladesinger multiclass might be the gishiest gish in the game now. Consistently casting spells (not just blade cantrips) and making weapon attacks on the same turn. Sounds super fun.
THANK YOU! This is one of the first awesome interactions I noticed when first looking through the 2024 rules and I’ve been waiting for someone to cover it. Very excited to play a thief/wizard with these rules
I think it “stole” the show
Ba dum tsss
Also, another advantage of Fast Hands is that it lets you don or doff a shield as a Bonus Action.
I don't really know if there is a build that can capitalize this, but I think it's nice little quirk.
Lurking for the next Worlds Without Number case study.
A script is done. I was planning on making the video next month.
Wandslinger Thief is real.
I would pump some breaks on the excitement over scrolls though. Making one takes considerable amount of downtime (which is scarce in most of campaigns) and 1000gp per party member is definitely not an early tier 1 quest. Lastly, let us not forget that to make a scroll you need special ink and paper which are available at towns at the DMs discretion. I don't know what group PackTactics is playing with but no DM I know would go like: 'Sure you can find and fund enough materials and spend a week, ignoring any and all urgency in the story to make few spell scrolls to break the balance of the encounters I prepared!'
From multiple other videos, I can confidently guess that kobold plays in high treasure games. Way more gold than average game, but nowhere to put it due to lack of magic shops. He gets like thousands of gp at tier 2, and has "unlimited gold" by tier 3.
Not sure about his downtime tho.
Think about this logically like what is common in tier 1? 200 gold for quest complete + ofc the loot? the little silver ring is maybe 20 gold, the little statue is 50 gold and so on. Skin the dead wolves, sell the skin to a leatherworker or whatever they're called. With tabletop freedom you can basically make money out of anything, it's a reward for creativity. Sometimes that doesn't work because you're playing curse of Strahd or some other brutal setting but for majority of games even with low magic items setting, getting money is very easy.
Also time sensitive quests: They absolutely exist but usually as soon as you finish a quest, you can have a few days of downtime. With you and the wizard having a single day of downtime, In 16 hours both of you create 4 1st lvl scrolls in total for only 100 gold and you get the long rest. That should be enough for an adventuring day.
You also have your slots from 1st lvl wizard dip, that's 2 slots, Arcane recover that's 1 and 4 scrolls so in total you have 7 resource slots. That's as much as like a 4th level caster. That's should be enough to complete the next quest.
@@arcturuslight_ You should have unlimited gold by tier 3 if you have a full caster. Also the DMG has guidelines for the amount of loot you should be getting.
WotC: I know, we should let the spell casters craft a 9th level spell scroll in 120 days (and can sell and make 50000gp profit) or just craft a 1st level spell scroll a day (and make 25gp profit per day), but someone proficient with smith tools has to take 150 days to craft plate armor (and make 750gp profit (5gp per day))
This just made me check Xanathar's crafting magic item (which sets crafting in work weeks (5 day)), and it takes 30 work weeks to craft plain plate armor, 25 work weeks for +2 armor and 10 work weeks to craft +1 armor. Makes sense that you can craft +2 plate armor faster than you can craft plain plate armor.
One thing to mention is that booming blade or green flame blade scrolls are super important because they let you get two sneak attacks around by bonus action to use the scroll and using you main action to ready an attack after your turn ends. Previously it was pretty difficult to do this consistently without help from other party members. 26 avg damage a round at level 3 assuming both attacks hit and your dex mod is 3. The cantrips also scale for more damage as you mentioned..
I think high elf will work decently well for thief rogue (provided getting a cantrip from your race allows to make it into a spell scroll), using bonus action fast hands to read a scroll of true strike, hold your action to cast true strike again on another turn and with the other thief features we should be able to manage positioning fairely well. 😂😊
You can make the scroll, but unfortunately can’t use the scroll. A spell has to be on your class spell list for you to cast it from a scroll, so a 1 level wizard dip would be a necessity.
The oddest thing is the best litmus for any sort of magic item is spell components. Clerics seem to have the most varied and most annotated costs, so if D&D had a base economy it would be Cleric spell components. You could say equipment tables, but the cost of most equipment, even full plate is durable (more than a one time use) and still relatively inexpensive compared to spell components.
Double Casting is actually better than giving disadvantage. If the first one sticks, you can target a second creature!!!!
I've been exited about the thief rogue since the first time I saw it in the playtest. Back then it was seen through the lens of you cannot cast any spells other than a cantrip if you cast a bonus action spell. Seeing as that rule has changed, it has gone from great to incredible!
Yeah, Mike from CCMC was talking about this. He got the idea from one of his patrons. The Brilliant Thief. Basically using fast hands to cast true strike from a scroll as a bonus action, then hold your action until the next turn to cast true strike normally to get two sneak attacks every round. You'd want to do this ranged with a shortbow for the vex property and because you've used your reaction that round and can't use uncanny dodge or shield, assuming you took the wizard dip. Expensive, but incredibly cool. And as Pack demonstrates, it gets better as you level up. Not only does true strike scale (and do radiant damage), but the capstone gives you FOUR sneak attacks in one turn. (At the cost of two cantrip scrolls) That's insane!
Artificer 10 or Scribes Wizard 10/Thief 3 is about to go crazy for higher level scroll stuff.
Weapon attack cantrips also are a cheap way to get double sneak attacks using bonus action then held attack action.
In my experience, most GMs that run the gritty realism rules change all of the system’s features to match the longer timescale, not just rests (otherwise daily magic scroll scribing would be setting warping).
Thief rogue is also REALLY good when combined with the Healer feat & Healing kits, also pairs well with the MotM Hobgoblin rework. You can output a very useable amount of NON MAGICAL healing, which depending on setting can change the game exponentially. I REALLY like how well you can combine this with stuff like the crafter starting feat to output a TON of item effects or Buffing effects.
I had a char like this. It was a crosbowoman thattreated magic healing like some people treat actual meds and vaccines.
"Did you know that magic increases the risk of illnesses"
"You dont know what the 'healer' might be doing alongside the magic 'heal', he surely is planting some sort of tracking spell on you or suggestion magic"
"Trust mw i know what i am doikg by using this knives i can remove the infected tissue to prevent this thing called bacteria from harming you" (usually bacteria is overlooked as why tf would you understand bacterias if it dies with magic all the same)
And my favorite:
"What will you do if your patient is alergic to magic? You will kill him!" NOONE was alergic to magic and all of that was bs i was making up in the fly it was GREAT.
You can also get Good berry and cure wounds spell scrolls and you're a support thief getting your allies up for a bonus action
"Thief Rogues are the best martial in the entire game."
"Why?"
"Spells."
this game really is just that shit...
During the playtest, I played a thief rogue levels 3-20 (we leveled up each session), and we had fun magic items given throughout the adventure, including scrolls! I had a wand of magic missiles which made my damage decent, but the real fun was the scrolls. We were given a good amount, and once I hit level 13 the party ended up giving most of them to me. It was a super fun jack of all trades caster at that point. Great video!
Great video Kobold. This looks like so much fun :)
i think a missed point here was that rogues using cantrip bonus action truestrike can get sneak attack with that attack, then hold your action to get sneak attack again as a reaction, this is a 15 good investment each round, but reliable damage is worth it
When you think about it, the Thief literally gets more powerful by stealing more items.
Now THAT'S pairing flavour with mechanics!
If you grab True Strike by way of Magic Initiate, you could be essentially a full caster and dedicate fully to Intelligence.
High Elf could even save you the feat and nab you True Strike as well :)
Taking Scribe as your background gives you proficiency with calligraphy and you can make scrolls. Technically don't need to be a Wizard at all
@@williambradford6575 you can scribe the spells, but can’t cast them unfortunately. A spell has to be on your class spell list to be cast from a scroll.
@williambradford6575 you need to be have the spell in your spell list or be a lvl 13 Thief to cast a spell
I thought exactly the same: being able to bonus action cast a level spell with wands, scrolls and staffs is just insane. Other youtubers didn't get the idea that the Thief is a caster like any other spellcaster, specially if you have a Wizard in your party.
7:50 To your point, double casting is quite a bit better than casting with adv/dis because if you hit with the first you can do something else with the second: different action, spell, target, or just do the same thing and get double the damage. Can't do that with adv/dis.
Thief 9 / Illusionist 3 seems like it could be a fun build.
Thief for all that thieving goodness, illusionist for the spells, and bonus action minor illusion in particular, in case there's no cover nearby, you can just create your own.
I like the combo of a thief rogue using cunning strike to impose the poisoned condition on a creature. Then as a bonus action casting summon undead putrid form to attack and impose paralyzed condition with no save to setup auto crits.
With a little multiclassing you can start with thief Rogue, then any wizard for scribe scroll, and finally Pally, so you can keep your smites going without burning spell slots.
Even if a DM moves to nerf this somewhat, limiting you to one Magic action per turn, and limiting the number of spell scrolls you can create per day through gold stinginess, this is still good. Main action sneak attack, then a magic item, your own leveled spell, item or scroll as well.
Bonus action fireball. 'Nuff said haha
I don't know why but, that thief kobold artwork looks very cute for some reason.
As long as i can convince my dm that steal can be used as a combat action thief is the best cñass
Ive made thief kobolds in the past, i absolutely love this ^^ just inproving on the idea
Finally i can do 4 attacks multiattack at lvl3 with bracer of flying daggers, thanks wizards
If you've ever played Fallout or the Elder Scrolls games, when you pickpocket someone, not only can you take things from a character's inventory, but you can place items as well. It's called reverse pickpocketing. There's absolutely no reason you can't use the same skill to do the same thing. Plant an open bottle of Alchemist's fire in their pocket. Or a bomb. Or a live mimic... Something. Put something in their pocket that they don't want in there.
I'm a really big fan of the Thief Subclass. It's so good. I think they might end up being my new Roguelock subclass choice. Woof.
One of my favourite moments in dnd was when the fighter/hexblade realized that Wand of Magic Missiles didn't require attunement, so he used Action Surge to dual wield two of them, spending all charges with his hexblade's curse, dealing 18d4+90 force damage with no save.
(he made sure to wait until after they spent their reaction because he knew they had the shield spell prepared)
I'd like to point out that the wands can be upcast. Level 7 Magic Missile as a bonus action with a 1-in-6 chance to not spend any of the 7 charges you blew from the wand is AMAZING. Have a dozen of those and you'll never run out of missiles to throw.
yay 3.5 Rogue is back
Lvl 9 feature is great for what I call hidden in obscurity X (rogue, ranger, barbarian? Etc) hiding inside something like a fog cloud (we'll need blind sense, but the skulker feat would have been a good choice anyway) and maybe a spell like blink will really make it hard to pin you down. (I'm starting to really like gestalt artificer {probably battle smith}/rogue thief, since artificer gets a lot of great spells, reduction for magic gear crafting, CON save proficiency, high AC and we benefit massively damagewise from rogue. I might still be missing some other reasons why this would be a great combo.)
4:50 Wait, can’t you only use spell scrolls as a thief when you get to level 13?
I said dip wizard.
@ thank you
You could also make an int or cha based thief rogue that focuses on making true strike scrolls. Use your bonus action to cast true strike and ready nother true strike to get 2 sneak attacks per turn
I think my perception of cost in DnD is not the common one. In my current campaign, our party recently hit LVL 9. Before that, our entire party income from all quests we did was less than 1000 total (we did get a handful of potions on top of that).
And here Kobold is basically suggesting spending 150+ GP on a single encounter.
Your perception is totally normal. Every GM runs a totally different economy between gold availability, prices, magic items and such.
Usually, level 1 nets you enough to buy a tool or two, or maybe upgrade a piece of armor if you multiclass. Levels 2 and 3 normally let you upgrade your armor and/or buy your tool kits, and maybe a spell component or two. Levels 4 and 5 are normally when you're getting some real money. If you've scrounged, you're probably approaching buying your best possible armor before magic items. You may also have enough money to buy fare on an inexpensive ship already heading somewhere. The party could collectively buy a small cottage on the outskirts of town or a run-down business, if they haven't gotten any kind of home base or keep to operate out of. By level 6-7, you have plate armor money and the party could pool resources for a decent keep or a building downtown. You can easily charter a ship to sail just your party somewhere and back. Hirelings or followers are viable and likely already present. 8-9th level you're in the realm of expensive spell components, buying a ship or other vehicle for the party to sail on, or trying to buy relevant magic items if you have nothing better to spend money on. Beyond that gets wild. You'll likely see 10,000+ gold per player per level, and it will only go up from there. It's viable to buy a company, or possibly pay for a small standing army. You can also hire out teams of level 5+ adventurers to tackle tasks appropriate to their level that you can't be bothered with.
That said, I've seen both games where by level 5, the party is lucky to have drinking money, and games where by 5th level, the party has thousands of gold to spend, or are decked out in magic items. It really varies by campaign, game tone, and table. It's part of why a session 0 is so important to set expectations and ask questions! If you want to play a resource-heavy character, it's important to ask the DM if your party will see a good amount of wealth and ample money-making opportunities, or if you'll be Cowboy Bebopping it.
Finally, scroll trickster from pathfinder is back
2:50 I love the rogue art 😂
We just started a new campaign when the new PH came. I went thief!!! We started at 3 and taking it all the way to 20. At level 5 now, I'm going to take a level of Wizard at some point but taking Thief to 19. Looking forward to shenanigans. The eventual two-turns round 1... Four uses of scrolls/magic items in a single round, dammers lol
Wait. Double Eldritch Blast without needing a specific Magic item?
Oooo that tickles my brain. I need it.
@@James-kv3ll You would need to be level 13 and have a way to create those scrolls.
@@callumwhitmore1107 Wdym Level 17?
With 1 Level in Warlock you can cast Eldritch Blast as an action.
With 3 levels in Rogue you can cast Eldritch Blast as a Bonus Action using a scroll.
Explain what I’m missing here
Certainly a wild and fun idea - I'd love to play a shopping addicted Elf that never has gold but buys all the scrolls and wands (maybe he always wanted to be a mage but had not talent x) ))
Holy 🐊, i want an elf thief now.
1:56 the higher level spells may have some leeway in their prices between different spells of the same level, due to material cost as well
Thief: ehm kobold… whats this ‘buy’ thingy you keep referring to? Stuff in shops is free, yknow as long as no one looks.
Here is my idea about using scrolls for money. Magic shops don't have to exist if there is a guild for adventurers. Or just for mercenary work of any sort and class. Because scrolls are so useful it would make any who can use them drool. So naturally such guilds may have in house shops to restock certain niche items. So you could be dropping scrolls while looking for a quick job before the next big haul.
Did you mention True Strike Scrolls? Cast with Bonus Action, then ready your main action for another cast(just get the spell for this one). At level 5 with a short bow, that’s 10d6+8 and you can focus Int over Dex.
Man the Thief rogue looks very fun an thematic now, but as an Arcane Trickster fan, I wish Versatile Trickster did something with Magic Items or Spell scrolls too, instead of the tripping feature they have :/
Thief’s Reflex can be even better if you get the new Alert feat, improving your chances of _both_ turns coming before at least some of your opponents.
I think it's weird that the thief subclass is so focused on magic scrolls and stuff when we have the arcane trickster.
That being said, am I crazy for thinking I'd rather just have scrolls be loot dropped from enemies or found in dungeons than just have them purchasable through shops?
I did say magic shops are rare on that poll but to be fair they are thematically rare but consistently there is at least 1 across all my games that last more than 3 sessions.
I'm going thief 10/illusionist 10, I love the idea of using supreme sneak and illusion spells to stay hidden for the entire combat
Missed opportunity: Adora-bold
My friend has a traveling magic shop in his campaigns that hus old lvl 20 artificer runs. He even gives us a membership card that glows when were near his shop.
If I ever do run a magic shop It will be like a normal store in New York, with everything behind magical lock and key to prevent sticky hands as much as possible
In Original 5e, I always thought the mainstay for Thief was bonus action use poison and when the attack hits, you get your oppoenet in the poisoned condition.
Xanathar's Guide has a "Buying a Magic Item" section under the downtime activities. This is what we use and yes, while there are magic shops, the chance of them having what you actually want is random based on a roll as is the price. It works out fairly well for our style of play.
one thing to consider for scribing your own scrolls is if you have a DM willing to give you a headband of intellect you can dump int 90% of the time and then just attune to it during downtime to make your DC and attack bonus on your scrolls better and then just go back to being stupid while you adventure lol
They made the thief actually want to steal things and get rich
Thief subclass with the yugioh battle deck on his arm
That's only if they have enough scrolls lol.
@@PackTactics if everyone is spending all their free time making scrolls like you say they definitely will
This is so good. Having them have the scrolls stacked on top and shuffled and they pick the first one and go "fire bolt? Heh good enough"
People are hating on the rogue, yet now im more excited to play one than ever. Maybe im the weird one
If making the thumbnail look like Sly Cooper is intended that's an amazing ref!
one of my players switched from inquisitive to thief, and we looked through it a was like this looks fantastic, but now i realize just how good
My party doesn't have a Thief Rogue, but I'm an Reborn with Arcana so I can pull off the quick scroll crafting.
Anyone else noticed two potential missing class from PHB 2024. All images of persons have text under them like " do something" or " doing somthing" and in book there are two images with text like "Inventor do something" "and "Investigator do something". Two missing classes, Inventor and investigator? Ranger put into book in place of this two classes, at last possible time?
Given the fact we know the hasbro CEO went on a ranting speach about how they're gonna and already are using A.I it wouldn't surprise me that the reason these classes keep getting these massive loop holes is because they're feeding features through A.I and then scrape homebrew.
Finaly we have hope in the Rogue!
Fire some builds on us, i wish to see an Roguelock...
Older editions used to have prices for magic items. Good to see they realized removing them was a mistake.
So economically speaking, value is technically subjective. It depends entirely on what the seller wants for it and how much the buyer is willing to spend.
For example, i bought my house for 216k. It's a small home with an add on on an acre in the woods. Pretty cheap house, nothing crazy. However, it's the first house my wife and i have owned and we're raising our kids in it. I love livng in the woods with some land. It could be appraised at the 216k i paid, but i wouldn't want to sell it for any less than 400k because of the value it has to me personally. I also don't intend to sell it, i want to pass it on to my kids in a few decades.
This easily applies to homebrew values in dnd. If scolls are as abundant as the air itself and you can make them easily and get them anywhere, then as a seller, you have to lower prices for the competiton. But if you have one scroll and magic is very rare, you could ask any price you want
Can you use a Spell Scroll if you (Thief) aren't a Spellcaster?
I belive so
At 13th level, yes. Before that, you’re going to need a caster dip as you can only cast a spell from a scroll if that spell is on your class spell list.
@@jeffreyrankine2533 Ah I see. I was fixated on Fast Hands at 3rd level.
@@xiongray it’s an exciting feature! :)
The thief will be awesome with wands and other items. However, I fear it is an easy ruling against using scrolls with Fast Hands! If scrolls were meant to be used with the magic action's "use a magic item that requires a magic action", then the rule would have said so. Instead, it clearly states that scroll are 'read' and then you CAST THE SPELL. Magic action let you (1)"cast a spell", (2) use an ability, or (3) use a magic item that requires a magic action. Fast Hands text clearly matches (3) and the scroll description clearly matches (1). That is rules as written. Thief is still awesome, but the DM can control the balance with item distribution. Artificers create items.... so Thief/artificer might be fun for all.
Wait, the new crafter origin feat works with spell scrolls?
no it's a discount on mundane items and fast-craft an item in a round (which are also mundane items)
I might just have to play this new edition after all!
The problem here is when the dm is being really stingy with gold. Current campaign I'm in has seen like maybe 10k total in the party at 8th.
Edit: this is after scrapping the region and having a money generating company made. still poor.