@@teej_dv A bit yes, but this more relaxed style of talking would for sure make your videos even better. And they are already very good. With some space(silence) around words, it is easier to let the meaning/learnings sink in. This was a great talk! Thank you!!
Really good talk, I'm in an earlier stage of my career and "find your *vim"/"make it *vim" is very gentle, but helpful advice for my private and professional coding life. Thanks for the upload!
TJ, this was a very professional talk. I've seen many of your videos on your channel, and I've always thought you were eloquent, but holy cow! You were just as eloquent speaking in front of a live audience.
At my first job (also an EHR) I converted our QA tool to read from json instead of excel. You can’t diff excel files! Best tool for non technical folks though
Good talk, the lesson that you're not going to learn how to cook by studying recipes is something more people need to hear (including me twenty years ago). Everybody needs a kitchen where it's ok to make a huge goddamned mess.
6:20 There are 2 KPIs that beats all others: vim motion( God forbid using arrow keys, or HJKL for that matter ) and bandwidth distribution( This is bareback text, not something that is rendered across the universe. ) And then there are good productivity tools: telescope, LSP, and DBUI come to mind. Runs better without a window manager, in the linux console itself. Why install i3, KDE. or GNOME? Unless you need a browser, i e On linux and unix, vim is so close to the terminal that it marinates the entire CLI.
are you saying you actually write things in the TTY? I've tried a few times but inevitably I end up needing some graphical tool to look at data or use a hex editor, or to google things when problems come up. there's no reason to completely get rid of a graphical environment except on a server. Also the colors don't really work, it's fine on SSH but in raw TTY it's hard to distinguish things that are easily color-coded in a terminal emulator with full color support.
It is amazing that after all these years, (neo)vim can't handle long lines such that it will chock e.g., a minified json. I wish some brave soul tries to do something about it (maybe someday I will delve into nvim code and do it myself)
I definitely want something like neovim, but more like a terminal based vscode. Or like a nano with lsp. I don't want the modes. I just want a plain something like nano with multi cursor and lsp support, and a terminal pane at the bottom
Why don't you want the modes though? I have a hard time imagining not wanting them after using them to the point where it's muscle memory. For a terminal at the bottom you can use a plugin (I think) or use Zellij/Tmux to open nvim and another terminal side by side in any orientation you want.
@@tacobabyman1215 I don't want to "learn vim". I mean, I know vim a bit. I get by pretty well with it I run Linux daily and use it on servers plenty too etc. But what I want is simplicity. I don't want a lot of dependencies or config management. And I want to just open the file and edit it directly, with something like CTRL+D to give me another cursor in the next occurrence of selected text, CTRL+SHFT+Arrow Down to copy line down. CTRL+ALT+Arrow Down fo another cursor directly below in the same column. Then of course lsp with syntax and token support with tab completion and that's it. That's everything I need. Grep/Sed/etc I prefer to do just directly from the terminal. My daily IDE currently is vscode but I hate it to an extent. I only run one extension at a time-- whatever lsp or language support companion is available for whichever language I'm using. And it took me thousands of hours to learn to program, and I'm no spring chicken. I'll age out before I get as good at vim as I am at programming.
@@1Caja I've went down the plugin road with neovim. No thanks. Actually I've used tilix with vim and that was pretty nice. Just don't like the modes and motions and keys. I struggle HARD and get stuck when writing code, it blocks my ability to program, trying to think of what to do in vim. I push keys by habit and they get me into a weird state in vim and I won't know how to get out of it, or undo etc. Undo is only in one mode or it's different in different modes or something. My brain just doesn't work that way. I want SHIFT ALT DOWN for a new cursor below, SHIFT CNTL DOWN to copy line down, CNTRL D for another cursor at next occurance of highlighted text. CTRL Z to Undo. Those are the only bindings I use. Tell me how to do that in NEOVIM (and Not have to edit any configs for lsp support) and I am your NEOVIM lover for life.
I like neovim, but I feel like I am just a plugin installer and not obtain the benefit what TJ mentioned in the talk. May be that’s why I am not a good programmer yet 😮💨
Neovim is nice enough, but if you have a long-standing habit of non-modal IDEs, it's a living hell to retrain and customize. That's tons of time that could be spent learning something more important to work on.
luckily JetBrains products are also pretty much modal, so it's quite natural. I do my Advent of Code in nvim (LazyVim) and rust just to check it out and my experience is mixed. It works quite well.... until it doesn't :D and the only way for me to "fix" it, is to restart nvim. I am talking about a modal stuck in front, but cursor being in the buffer in the back. I still get tripped on d replacing whatever I y'ed. I use ctrl + / to open terminal as a buffer - I love the fact you can then use all vim motions to get around it - awesome. But sometimes I want to use split screen between my code and the sample input file, and from time to time, my terminal just opens in horizontal split (meaning on the right, not at the bottom). I have no idea how to move it back where it belongs, other than :wqa! and nvim . :) Also, debugging Rust just sucks balls. Also, who thought that in LazyVim leader + o would be step out, and leader + O would be step over. WHY. It's so easy to step out instead of step over
For me the benefit of being able to make it do something I want outweighs the cost of configuration. Being able to program your editor is genuinely useful sometimes.
Fair enough, but I realized that modal editing is maybe not as radical as I first thought, since all editors are modal: S types the letter S except if you also hold Ctrl, in which case it saves. Vim just really turns Esc into a Caps Lock for Ctrl, if that makes sense. I admit this philosophical amuse bouche doesn't help unlearning muscle memory :) but maybe it makes it seem less new, alien, and daunting. You've been doing modal your whole life, it's just that your pinky finger gets a break from holding down Ctrl all the time. Or not, I don't know :). Thanks for giving vim a shot!
Obviously, you should do you, and if you don't like modal editing then it's certainly no skin off my back. But I dunno that I'd describe it as a living hell, really... it's not *that* bad, and in general, being able to comfortably retrain yourself to adjust to new things and being familiar with different config paradigms and whatnot is kind of a core skill of being a good developer, so, to TJ's point in this talk, I think *vim can act as a really good sandbox/playground for practicing exactly that. Like, rather than thinking you're just spending a lot of time toward learning modal editing when there are more important things to learn, you could see it as, learning modal editing is just a side effect of the more fundamental skill you're picking up, which is learning to learn new things, keeping your brain flexible and able to pick up new and different stuff, etc., which is absolutely going to be helpful in other coding endeavors.
Yeah this has been my main takeaway as well. I used vim (poorly) in some small capacity for over two decades, mostly just for quick edits to config files or simple things on a server, but I always thought like, "no way this is the right choice as my primary editor." Maybe 6 months ago I came across Primeagen here on youtube and quickly stumbled on all of his neovim content and realized it was capable of much much more than I had realized, so I just dove in and made the switch, and I have had more fun coding and using my computer over this past half year than I have probably since I first got hooked on this stuff as a teenager. It's just a ton of fun to use, and the better I get with it, the more fun it has gotten, and when writing code feels like a joy instead of a chore, I think it's just much much easier to write good code.
Hits hard because I've been procrastinating on a work project that I've so far found impossible to motivate myself to tackle with any gusto. I'm experienced enough to have been in similar situations many times in the past, and have always found a way to gamify or shift perspective on the problem in order to get myself going. So far, I haven't found a spark this time around, and it's making me question everything from the job itself to my entire career. A side project has kept me going in the meantime, but work saps so much energy because of this. Ugh.
You can try looking for the smallest piece of work that's actually doable and that would count strictly speaking as "progress". Sometimes nibbling at the margins suddenly leads to a bigger appetite :) Just a third idea besides gamify and shifting views 👍
Calendar apps, note taking, code editors, browsers, web frameworks. One big circle of wasted brain power. Nothing is wrong with that but many engineers fool themselves thinking they are making the world a better place. Have they seen how much chemicals are in their food and water supply giving them cancers and heart disease? Who is going into those fields to help the farmers do things the right way?
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
the CEO of neovim
prime who's busy installing neovim on everyone mom's computers
You mean CTO?
what do you know about ceoing?
hahaha thanks
chief edging officer... develop software at the edge where you can see the results of your code when you save the file
Japan design is so good. The conference gives both early 2000s software impression and mecha anime vibes. Of course cheers to TJ, always glad to hear!
until you see their websites LOL
Great talk. Small piece of advice: You should put something like “I read the entire vim manual in a single shot” in your bio!
This has to be the most levelled I've ever seen Teej. Fantastic talk
Conference talks are a different vibe than youtube videos haha
Bro if you think about it, its like the internet, but irl @@teej_dv
@@teej_dv A bit yes, but this more relaxed style of talking would for sure make your videos even better. And they are already very good. With some space(silence) around words, it is easier to let the meaning/learnings sink in.
This was a great talk! Thank you!!
Really good talk, I'm in an earlier stage of my career and "find your *vim"/"make it *vim" is very gentle, but helpful advice for my private and professional coding life. Thanks for the upload!
Thank you :) glad you liked it!
Dude!? did not know you were in Japan, sad I missed the event. Hope you had time to enjoy your stay here.
haha sorry - i didn't get to explore for too long, but I did really like it :) Tokyo is very beautiful
This is suuuuuuuuch a precious talk. Thank you so much TJ DeVries, Thank you so much vim-jp. Love you all!!
Epic mentioned. I don't know how I missed this event 2 weeks ago, but I'm glad this video found me!
have someone noticed the youtube url ?
lmfao dude
lmfaoooo
nice catch lmaoo, first time seeing something like this
ruclips.net/video/5u604lTkGAY/видео.htmlsi=QpNf6TTNd8gnPDF_
🗣️gaiiiiiiiii
TJ, this was a very professional talk. I've seen many of your videos on your channel, and I've always thought you were eloquent, but holy cow! You were just as eloquent speaking in front of a live audience.
Great presentation!
Thank you :)
One of the best talks about being a good software developer. I loved the stories. Thanks TJ!
Really great and give a new aspect to be great programmer
Vielen Dank ... ich begebe mich auf die Suche, viele Grüße 🫡👍
Amazing talk. I’m going exactly through this with my NixOS flake.
Fantastic talk! Really well developed.
Oh, TJ gave a talk at vim-jp! I would have attended the event if I had known it earlier!
At my first job (also an EHR) I converted our QA tool to read from json instead of excel. You can’t diff excel files! Best tool for non technical folks though
Damn... that was a GREAT talk!
The true Vim is the friends we've made along the way
this was great. amazing job teej
the voice of neovim has spoken :D
This is a really good talk TJ, you’re awesome! - Thank you
Such a plot twist!
Thank you for mentioning that you can write code quickly like in Odin guy from Sublime text
Good talk, the lesson that you're not going to learn how to cook by studying recipes is something more people need to hear (including me twenty years ago). Everybody needs a kitchen where it's ok to make a huge goddamned mess.
Teej rocking with the turtle neck!
Respect man you are the best!
6:20 There are 2 KPIs that beats all others: vim motion( God forbid using arrow keys, or HJKL for that matter ) and bandwidth distribution( This is bareback text, not something that is rendered across the universe. ) And then there are good productivity tools: telescope, LSP, and DBUI come to mind. Runs better without a window manager, in the linux console itself. Why install i3, KDE. or GNOME? Unless you need a browser, i e On linux and unix, vim is so close to the terminal that it marinates the entire CLI.
are you saying you actually write things in the TTY? I've tried a few times but inevitably I end up needing some graphical tool to look at data or use a hex editor, or to google things when problems come up. there's no reason to completely get rid of a graphical environment except on a server. Also the colors don't really work, it's fine on SSH but in raw TTY it's hard to distinguish things that are easily color-coded in a terminal emulator with full color support.
@@torphedo6286 Yes, tmux helps out with clipboard and colors in my experience.
My Steve Jobs 🥰🥺
hahahaha thank you
teej steve jobed this presentation
Got to love tj
thumbnail has big steve jobs energy
Much respect
It is amazing that after all these years, (neo)vim can't handle long lines such that it will chock e.g., a minified json. I wish some brave soul tries to do something about it (maybe someday I will delve into nvim code and do it myself)
Sorry but what do you mean? It has line breaking and word wrapping e.g. :set wrap
3 kids and one of them is chat. Awesome . He uses brain link instead of keyboard.
I definitely want something like neovim, but more like a terminal based vscode. Or like a nano with lsp. I don't want the modes. I just want a plain something like nano with multi cursor and lsp support, and a terminal pane at the bottom
micro or helix
Why don't you want the modes though? I have a hard time imagining not wanting them after using them to the point where it's muscle memory.
For a terminal at the bottom you can use a plugin (I think) or use Zellij/Tmux to open nvim and another terminal side by side in any orientation you want.
modes are just how you interact. It's quite literally 3 buttons.
Not going to shit on you but if you can learn programming you can learn vim motions.
@@tacobabyman1215 I don't want to "learn vim". I mean, I know vim a bit. I get by pretty well with it I run Linux daily and use it on servers plenty too etc. But what I want is simplicity. I don't want a lot of dependencies or config management. And I want to just open the file and edit it directly, with something like CTRL+D to give me another cursor in the next occurrence of selected text, CTRL+SHFT+Arrow Down to copy line down. CTRL+ALT+Arrow Down fo another cursor directly below in the same column. Then of course lsp with syntax and token support with tab completion and that's it. That's everything I need. Grep/Sed/etc I prefer to do just directly from the terminal. My daily IDE currently is vscode but I hate it to an extent. I only run one extension at a time-- whatever lsp or language support companion is available for whichever language I'm using. And it took me thousands of hours to learn to program, and I'm no spring chicken. I'll age out before I get as good at vim as I am at programming.
@@1Caja I've went down the plugin road with neovim. No thanks. Actually I've used tilix with vim and that was pretty nice. Just don't like the modes and motions and keys. I struggle HARD and get stuck when writing code, it blocks my ability to program, trying to think of what to do in vim. I push keys by habit and they get me into a weird state in vim and I won't know how to get out of it, or undo etc. Undo is only in one mode or it's different in different modes or something. My brain just doesn't work that way. I want SHIFT ALT DOWN for a new cursor below, SHIFT CNTL DOWN to copy line down, CNTRL D for another cursor at next occurance of highlighted text. CTRL Z to Undo. Those are the only bindings I use. Tell me how to do that in NEOVIM (and Not have to edit any configs for lsp support) and I am your NEOVIM lover for life.
thanks tj
Speaking of inside jokes spoken outside so the context isn't there, and just sounds rude: Was this talk written for Prime's Twitch chat?
Teej so charming
That thumbnail lmao
wow, japan definitely the best
Amazing!
Chad
I like neovim, but I feel like I am just a plugin installer and not obtain the benefit what TJ mentioned in the talk. May be that’s why I am not a good programmer yet 😮💨
Waiting for a reddit plug for windows hotkeys users with multi-cursor support for ultimate productivity. 😂😅😅
So good in fact that he quit to be a full time streamer
imagine how good you would be if you used emacs 😜
he looks like justin bieber for a sec
Steej Jobs
No, you clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in. I am not testing in production, Prime. I AM THE PRODUCTION
Neovim is nice enough, but if you have a long-standing habit of non-modal IDEs, it's a living hell to retrain and customize.
That's tons of time that could be spent learning something more important to work on.
luckily JetBrains products are also pretty much modal, so it's quite natural. I do my Advent of Code in nvim (LazyVim) and rust just to check it out and my experience is mixed. It works quite well.... until it doesn't :D and the only way for me to "fix" it, is to restart nvim.
I am talking about a modal stuck in front, but cursor being in the buffer in the back. I still get tripped on d replacing whatever I y'ed.
I use ctrl + / to open terminal as a buffer - I love the fact you can then use all vim motions to get around it - awesome. But sometimes I want to use split screen between my code and the sample input file, and from time to time, my terminal just opens in horizontal split (meaning on the right, not at the bottom). I have no idea how to move it back where it belongs, other than :wqa! and nvim . :)
Also, debugging Rust just sucks balls. Also, who thought that in LazyVim leader + o would be step out, and leader + O would be step over. WHY. It's so easy to step out instead of step over
people waste time on so many things. setting up neovim is a 2days/year thing
For me the benefit of being able to make it do something I want outweighs the cost of configuration. Being able to program your editor is genuinely useful sometimes.
Fair enough, but I realized that modal editing is maybe not as radical as I first thought, since all editors are modal: S types the letter S except if you also hold Ctrl, in which case it saves. Vim just really turns Esc into a Caps Lock for Ctrl, if that makes sense.
I admit this philosophical amuse bouche doesn't help unlearning muscle memory :) but maybe it makes it seem less new, alien, and daunting. You've been doing modal your whole life, it's just that your pinky finger gets a break from holding down Ctrl all the time.
Or not, I don't know :). Thanks for giving vim a shot!
Obviously, you should do you, and if you don't like modal editing then it's certainly no skin off my back. But I dunno that I'd describe it as a living hell, really... it's not *that* bad, and in general, being able to comfortably retrain yourself to adjust to new things and being familiar with different config paradigms and whatnot is kind of a core skill of being a good developer, so, to TJ's point in this talk, I think *vim can act as a really good sandbox/playground for practicing exactly that. Like, rather than thinking you're just spending a lot of time toward learning modal editing when there are more important things to learn, you could see it as, learning modal editing is just a side effect of the more fundamental skill you're picking up, which is learning to learn new things, keeping your brain flexible and able to pick up new and different stuff, etc., which is absolutely going to be helpful in other coding endeavors.
eMacs is my vim
VScode next!
Haha. You program in a browser?
we don’t deserve TeJ in our lifes
vim is just more fun to use
Yeah this has been my main takeaway as well. I used vim (poorly) in some small capacity for over two decades, mostly just for quick edits to config files or simple things on a server, but I always thought like, "no way this is the right choice as my primary editor." Maybe 6 months ago I came across Primeagen here on youtube and quickly stumbled on all of his neovim content and realized it was capable of much much more than I had realized, so I just dove in and made the switch, and I have had more fun coding and using my computer over this past half year than I have probably since I first got hooked on this stuff as a teenager. It's just a ton of fun to use, and the better I get with it, the more fun it has gotten, and when writing code feels like a joy instead of a chore, I think it's just much much easier to write good code.
W Talk
Anybody here going to NotepadCon?
Emacs made me a better Better Software developer(?)
Hey mate, yeah, in my case it actually did!
the soy is glowing
Common teej W
Jealous of your skills honestly
what a cult. lol
Why didn't he speak Japanese?
He wanted to speak neo-Japanese but he kept it a secret
日本人じゃないだから
Really??!!
Hits hard because I've been procrastinating on a work project that I've so far found impossible to motivate myself to tackle with any gusto. I'm experienced enough to have been in similar situations many times in the past, and have always found a way to gamify or shift perspective on the problem in order to get myself going. So far, I haven't found a spark this time around, and it's making me question everything from the job itself to my entire career. A side project has kept me going in the meantime, but work saps so much energy because of this. Ugh.
You can try looking for the smallest piece of work that's actually doable and that would count strictly speaking as "progress". Sometimes nibbling at the margins suddenly leads to a bigger appetite :)
Just a third idea besides gamify and shifting views 👍
Why does the video id end with 'GAY'? Not insinuating anything!
Because neovim talks are gay
Yt programmer feud
Emacs users hit a like 😂
This guy needs to see to psychologist, he over possesive about neovim, there are more important things todo in life and software industry as well
when your whole life as an engineer is spent around a solved problem like text editors :D
He is motivating and helping thousands of new engineers.
Calendar apps, note taking, code editors, browsers, web frameworks. One big circle of wasted brain power.
Nothing is wrong with that but many engineers fool themselves thinking they are making the world a better place.
Have they seen how much chemicals are in their food and water supply giving them cancers and heart disease? Who is going into those fields to help the farmers do things the right way?
youre an engineer, he's a craftsman
@@DipeshRegmi-rh2mz Thanks :) that's very kind of you
What a waste of time, a clickbait title that has nothing to do with the talk..