DIY 24 Way Bus Bar installation. Battery 2.0
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- From the off-cuts of the original copper busbar, I'm building two heavy duty 12 way busbars with M8 studs. It takes a loooong time to prepare, drill and tap all holes into this 10mm copper. The result looks great though and we're making good progress...
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My OCD wants to spray paint the red stand-offs black for the negative bus bar....Looks great. Just the right length. Thanks for sharing.
They are always red, regardless 😉
When its done can you do some slow motion video of dropping a screwdriver across the bussbars? Its for science. Lol.
Yeah, looking forward to that test! ⚡
For some people it's drugs or booze, For Andy, it's his solar power obsession. Your viewers understand.
Andy, nice bar but I have a suggestion. Rather than threads in the soft copper, I recommend through holes with bolts and nuts, but the bolts point up from the bottom of the bars, thus creating studs. The hex heads will be beneath the bars but accessible with a wrench and will be strong enough to handle the torque you'll need to get solid connections.
This is a good suggestion, but, leave the threads in the bar. Thread the bolt in from the underside and torque it in place. You get "stud" sticking up but dont need to worry about trying to hold it from underneath.
It's not THAT soft. I doubt you will strip the thread out of that bar with a normal ratchet.
I also didn't like the nuts underneath as it is dangerous to access them later down the track once the bar is active. There is a good chance for a big short between the two bars.
Using a 7mm drill to make a M8 thread weakens it's holding power. An M8 should be torqued to 17Nm in copper. You may want to test in a spare piece. Torquing down a terminal is very important.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Personally I dont think you will strip the holes out. My suggestion was to thread the bolt through the bottom of the bar and torque it in so it stays there and you never remove it. Then you have a stud sticking up through the bar. You simply drop the lug and washer(s) over the stud and then apply the nut. Here is the biggest benefit: You can now torque to steel specs instead of being limited by copper. More pressure is more better!
Thanks for the DYI video. It was an excellent job😊
I must have missed something earlier on the design of your battery bank shelf system. What I'm imagining is your Battery bank#1 on bottom shelf, Battery bank#2 on middle shelf, Charge Controller inputs and Distribution output connections to Inverter on top shelf. If this is what you are doing, I admire the forethought of you putting the Charge Controller high enough up on the wall. 👍
Get yourself some drill bits made for plastic. It is better to use nuts instead of threading soft copper. Your connections will loosen due to thermal cycles and oversized hole. Your bolt pitch diameter is 7.1881 mm. You just lost half of your thread height by drilling a 7.0 mm vs 6.8 mm hole.
That's overkill. I say this now as I have to drill in that plastic a lot more in the future. I may regret not have listened to you 😂
11:00 Mühlheim an der Ruhr soso 😂✌️
Der Zollstock is bestimmt 20 Jahre alt. Den hab ich in D schon immer auf Lager gehabt 😉
schweres fault ............ Mülheim mit 2 h geht ja mal garnicht :-)
Ich war sehr erfreut meine Heimatstadt in deinem Vedeo zu erblicken :-)
Heya, I really like those copper bustbar have to see if I can get them here.
It's great to see progress 🙂👍
Nice bar! I would suggest raising 1 bar, so any wiring can be straight and don’t require a bend to go over, underneath the other bar. (So both wires are on a different height)
It needs be bend down anyway to sit flush on the plastic. I thought about a riser for one bar similar to what I did in the cabinet with the busbars. but here it's better if they run in parallel in the breaker panel.
What about using a "hole saw" type drill bit on the plastic, so it does not crack.
Thats what I call a busbar!
WD40 is unsuitable as a lubricant for tapping. It is too thin and will displace rather than lubricate. Your fabricating life would be much happier if you use a dedicated tapping fluid or wax. I've had great success with the TapMagic brand fluid. I've also used a tapping wax that works well. I don't know the brand, but its what they gave us at work. Blue in color. Looked like a bar of soap. After drilling and tapping thousands of holes, I've learned the right lubricant makes a world of difference. Also, I prefer using a step drill bit making holes in thin plastic. I've never had a crack using this method.
TREFOLEX CUTTING PASTE
You need to tell me that BEFORE I start working. Now, it's too late. I could have used butter though...
Will super glue or the glue they on car windscreens help repair the cracks in your perspex???
I'm not concerned about the cracks at all. The Acrylic will sit flat on the aluminium sheet and where the cracks are the bus bar support will push down on it. There is no mechanical force on the Acrylic, so I just leave it as it is.
offcourse the 6.8-7mm is a difference. The amount of force you can put on the thread is a huge difference. But wil you actually torque the cables to the spec of an m8 bolt to a copper bar? Probably not, its not like you are going to hang a swing from the cables or something.
Hey Andy i am looking around to your videos,comments and page and i cound not find the busbar width!?
use soldering iron and melt a small spot at the end of the cracks so they don't continue growing :)
Strangely the way to stop perspex cracking whist drilling is to use a masonry drill bit. I have done this several times with no risk of cracking.
@@nigelcharles511 i can actually see that working because it makes heat and softens the plastic instead of ripping through it with the sharp edges of a normal metal or wood drill bit :) good point i'm going to put that to memory for later projects.
Get yourself a drillpress...
How do you calculate the required copper bus bar thickness? ...is it dependant on total voltage? Number of connections? Amperage draw?
Wonder same...
Great vid as always.
Are those bars nickle plated?
Also as other have mentioned, there are drill bits for plastics, if I recall they are something like 80 degree points instead of the 118 for a normal drill bit.
Still looking to that 6 to change to a 7 :)
Yes, the busbars are tinned.
I should have pushed the plastic down with a wooden block while drilling. It only cracked because the drill bit was so sharp it went through it quickly and lifted it up.
Safety second.
Where do you find your busbars and how do you know what busbars you need?
You need to update your subscribers numbers on the wall to 17k, PS just use a 240v drill instead
Where are you getting the bus bar and insulators? (Found the insulators on your site but can’t find the bus bar)
I bought it locally from a bus bar company in Brisbane. This is nothing you can really order online and ship internationally. It's super heavy.
ruclips.net/video/6y_0gHGni60/видео.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thanks! 30x10…. Checked Amazon…wow. Gotta source locally r kept down scrap copper I guess 🤣
You just got the wrong type of plastic , you need polycarbonate . You can cut drill it with whatever you want .It's more expensive though.
Next time use a wood drill for it .
Than you do not have a problem that the plastic break
When you drill copper there is a certain way to sharpen the drill bit. I could spend 1/2 hour trying to explain it, or point you to a video, but your job is done, so there really isn't any point.
Shouldn’t be depending on threads in copper to allow tight connections. As others have noted, you should use bolts, nuts, and wavy washers for secure connections with wire lugs.
You didn't mention the trick to drilling into copper. With a regular drill bit you blunt it. Basically change the angle so it bites in less. The stops it from catching the material so easily. It should drill like butter and shouldn't give any problems. It's giving problems it's because the drill bit isn't sharpened at the correct angle. Drill bits come factory with the right angle for steel and wood
Yes I hate drilling copper it snags ,catches rips I will never drill buy hand drill press only. !!
also WD40 is a poor lubricant i, i use molly or red grease ;-]
Yeah, too late now. I only have these drill bits.
I am surprised that you don't have a drill press!! And by the way, to get a quality thread tap, you really need to do them by hand. Using a drill doesn't give you a great thread, especially when it is so important.
Exactly! But he has a hydraulic crimping tool!
I don't have space for one and never had a need for one until now. Is it worth buying one now? Probably not...
I'm sure you guys have one 👍
@@OffGridGarageAustralia there is so much you can do with them. They aren't that big. Either a table top one or a free standing pedestal has space in every shed 😊
You've a large garage mate, get a stationary drill !!
Omg. I’ve never understood this trend to tap threads with a drill.
It works plenty well enough for this use case. If being done and undone regularly then not so much. But copper also not good for regular do/undo 😊
Where do you buy thick copper bar like that? And what's it coated in? Nickle?
Great work. Nice to see steady progress on the power shelves. I am very excited about this project, as you go I think "I can do this, and I also have that tool... Where can I buy that thick of a bussbar???" You got me dreaming about this... Poooowaaaaa! Love your channel.
P.S.- I like longer videos, everything else in RUclips can wait. Off-Grid Garage comes first all day, everyday! Keep up Andy. May the force be with you and... Your drill's battery...
Thanks a lot Ricardo!
I wonder what copper costs in Australia? Here in Canada I don't think I could afford the bus bars that you show in this video.
Hello Andy I I’m interested to understand how you will manage all this 2 batteries lines. I suppose you will use 2X 18 cells. But the BMS is max 24S. If you use 2 BMS. How they can « discuss » with the inverter??? Or we don’t care about discussion? My idea is to make the same as you in futur. But the inverter I looking for have all mppt integrated and a communication port for the batteries. What’s happen if BMS and inverter does not discuss?
You can get plastic drill bits that are less likely to crack plastic. Or just run your drill fast backwards and melt your holes.
Yeah, but I didn't have one at that time and will likely not buying one for just that purpose.
I'm saying this now because I'm at the beginning of working with this material.
That's a super thick busbar you need for 12v, I'm glad we are moving to 48v these days
Is there a big disadvantage to just drilling the holes out and putting a nut on the other side instead of tapping the copper? I hate threading steel bolts into copper and aluminum due to how easy it can be to mess up the threads.
Hey just throwing my 1 and 1/2 cents in the mix... someone mentioned bus bars to be different levels which i agree with. An additional thought to that is a plastic resting shield with a radius edge to hold up the wire from the back row off the front row. Second thing would be off set the lug alignment by 1/2. So as to have the back row wire come straight out between the front row lugs. Just a thought. Thanks for what you do!
Marc.
Thanks, Marcus.
There will be shielding once the cables are in place.
I thought about a bit of off-set but it's not necessary as the bus bars are around 100mm away from each other which gives me enough room to have them running in parallel to the breaker panel.
Can I suggest countersinking your holes to break the sharp edge before tapping. Your tapped hole will look like it was professionally done then,, A cheap drill press with a depth stop and they will all look the same. I'm a qualified machinist, this is how I was taught to do it. Give it a go on an offcut, you'll never look back.
Hey hey Sparky, you're getting it going. Good job. Do they have Bellville spring washers down under? With a given ID they have a larger OD over the split ring. I find them to be much better at maintaing pressure at a given torque.
Yes, they have them here as well of course. I'm old style 😎
Im sure a cheap drill press would be a good investment for you Andy 😊
I love how the main cable to main breaker is 70mm2 while the bus bars are at a guess are 30x10mm so 300mm2. Overkill but why not. Would have cost a pretty penny though. They will handle a lot more than 650amps.
The bus bar was 4m long and did cost around $200 altogether. Considering buying cables and all the lugs, crimping and the time, I thought it is worth it and keeps the installation clean.
Maybe he wants to use the 70mm2 wire as a shunt haha
I would connect the two bars with a piece of equivalent bus bar if the load required it.
You are going to cover the bus bars with a perspex cover or similar right? Don't want a spanner dropping down the side of the shelf. Unless you like indoor fireworks.
Yes, once this is all installed, I'll order the barriers for that and other sections.
What brand of safety sandals do you use when drilling?.. 😄
With different metals I would use a grease at screw connections, the nobler material (copper) would attack the inferior metal in the long run.
Earlier I used for something like this polfett from Bosch , but I do not know if there is still ?
With the tubular cable lugs I also like to use the outside are expanded, it is easier to insert the cable, from about 35qmm cable.
Plexiglas I drill with wood drills and cool with spirit, as you do when drilling aluminum.
When freehand drilling the drill runs away sometimes, that is unfortunately so.
Here is a stand drill helpful ;-)
Greets from Germany
Uli
Hallo,tell me pleace,is good to take inox screw to fix busbars?
Hi, dear Andy, WD40 is NOT lubricant... Next time use f.e. old motor oil - it will be better :-)
I don't have old motor oil. I've got a Tesla 🤷♂️
@@OffGridGarageAustralia :-)))) my sorry... And do you have kitchen ? And any kitchen oil ? :-)))
@@antoni_sk no kitchen. It's Australia, mate. We're living from the BBQ😁
Yeah, ok, so salad oil will do the trick you reckon?
You can try it... :-)
and don't forget the smaller threaded holes on your busbars for connecting non-power devices - f.e. measuring, etc.
@@antoni_sk all auxiliary load will be connected through circuit 2 pole breakers now, no need for the small screws any more...
I have 2 ft long copper busbars on my negative and positive. Not sure how many threaded holes I have but it is several lol got them spaced for 4/0 lugs and lugs for 4 guage coming from 6 lithium strings.
You can never have enough connections, right?
Nice job on making your own bus bars!
Will you paint or put black tape on your negative bus bar insulators for visual recognition of - from +?
Nothing like this. They will be behind glass (you will see this in the next videos)...
How do you know how many amps support those bars?
Get some plexiglass cement for those cracks will seal them like it never happened. It is like water and flows into the Crack. I use it to build aquariums.
Thanks for the tip. I'm not too worried about it as it still maintains the isolating effect the plastic is mainly for. Also the bus bar isolator sits right on top. If I create more cracks, I'll get this cement. Thank you.
you can repair that 'plastic' with chloroform. with a thin needle some liquid in the crack and do not tussingon anything, liquid evaporation crack repaired. It's nice to see that nothing goes perfectly and that you are still going to change during the composition.
Thanks for the info!
toptip; drill a little 2mm hole at the end of the cracks, sow they won't crack any further... top vids, greets from holland!!
Thanks for the tip. I'm not too concerned about the cracks as there is no mechanical strengths on the plastic, so they won't crack further. I have no watched a few videos on how to drill and also cut Acrylics. Easy to avoid these cracks if you know how... no special tools required.
Very professional.
Congratulations.
Once question. what are the red pieces? Thank you.
Thank you. They are called bus bar isolators or stand-off. You can get them in all kind of different dimensions. Link is here on my website:
off-grid-garage.com/electric-installation/
Use a step drill to drill plastic.
I don't have one... 🤷♂️
@@OffGridGarageAustralia What?!? In the "moving the inverter" video you said it was your favorite tool!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia On another item. Cleaning the bus bars. I tested a new piece of aluminum bar stock with an ohm meter. I laid the probes on there side an got all kinds of readings. Look like just cleaning the bar stock with a cleaner is not enuff to get a good contact. I had to clean up with a little sandpaper.. Now laying probes on there side got 0 ohms. NO Pushing probe tips into the bar stock. That gives s false reading.
What brand is the lugs?
Where do you get the bus bar rubber isolators?
Andy, just wondering why you wouldn't place the horizontal bussbar next to the switching device to shorten your cable run and eliminate the cable from the shelf entirely. The end of the bar could have a ninety degree bend to accommodate a straight run cable, this could also provide some strain relief if designed in. I seen electricity do some very odd things over the years.
Just another design what you suggest... I would not be able to bend this copper myself without proper machinery. I used to work in a switchboard company and we had massive banks for bending copper. Nothing you would have at home...
DIN VDE 8147 beachten !!!!
VDE... ja klar 😆
What are the red things under busbar?
Hi Andy, you seem to use the same safety footwear as I use, I live in my sandals...
They are good on the roof too 😁
Much better grip than the rubber of my other shoes.
I see this video was a year ago. I hope you got that copper before copper and brass prices went to the moon 🥴.
Yeah, paid around A$250 for the 4m length.
Andy you can use some model air craft glue on the cracks it should glue them
Thank you.
Thank you for making this video, it gives us great ideas on how to do things better, and more cheaply than just buying cheap junk.
Don't forget to always use stainless steel fasteners.
Regular steel fasteners contain carbon. Carbon is used to make resistors. I have seen high current connections melt down simply because of a carbon steel fastener.
If you use longer bolts coming up from the bottom, you will not be relying on the soft copper threads that may loosen, or pull out. Using stainless studs on the standoffs will give you a couple more connection points if you ever need it.
Collect the copper its worth big dollars at the scrap man!
They pay per kg... I need to drill more 😁
Maybe hrc fuses on battery
Nice bus bars!
Thank you!
Andy, I watched this some months ago and never really questioned, “to thread or not to thread”. Seems like comments are all over the place on that topic. I have my opinion on it, but curious why you decided to thread. Thanks for these videos, really enjoy your content!
Yes 👍 🔋⚡💡
Hi Andy, wenn du die Möglichkeit hast, solltest du besser beim nächsten mal Makrolon/Lexan anstelle von Plexiglas verwenden, das reisst und bricht nicht.
Kann ich sicherlich auch hier unten bekommen. Danke fuer den Tip.
Andy, quick tip, you need drill taps not standard and taps....
I'll try and send you a picture of some I have.....work great in most metals.
Tip with plastic drilling.....more speed less pressure....in fact hold your drill off.
Hope all goes well with the shelf's
Best wishes Marc
Looks great. I chose to use 40 x 5 mm copper, pillar drill accurate 8 & 10 mm holes then use bolts inserted below with locking washers and nuts above. This way you can use a torque wrench right up to around 20Nm for M8 and have a really good tight connection without risk of the bolt pulling out of the soft copper. I also use No Ox Id A electrical contact grease.
Hi,
thank you for the great videos!
Question: Do you think it is an issue to rotate the eve 280Ah batteries 90° so the small side is facing down and the terminals are facing towards you.
Small side facing down, fixture left and right Terminals on the front. like this: -->|||||||||
Hey Andy, Where did you get the busbar?
I live quite local to you (Gold Coast) and have found that Tradezone is quite good for getting lugs. They have a decent range of cables and stuff too. Might be a bit closer for you than Sunshine coast perhaps.
If you don't want your drill bits to wander off when starting holes, start with a 1/8th (3mm) or smaller pilot hole that won't be anywhere near as likely to skip out of the punch mark. On the downside, that would mean twice as much drilling to do.
I did the first holes with 4mm. I broke a 3mm drill in that copper as they easily get stuck...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Having some form of drill press helps a lot there. More control over drill bit pressure and staying perfectly square with the surface. Most of the times I've broken drill bits is from wandering off-axis with the hole. Hard to freehand-hold the drill steady while drilling through "grabby" materials.
Nice job Andy, option for lugs to go over or under if they interfere with each other. + & - , very impressive. I'm learning by watching others, Happy Thanksgiving.
Man, those look good! Also wanna make a 200A one for my setup.
Thanks, a lot of work to build these ones but they are 💪
somone may already say .. acetone into the crack and presto .. welded
freind used to bbuild shop counters out of the stuff .. amazing how the do stuff when u know ..
must b vid somewhere .. excellent motivating us all to do better ..
I wish I could buy you a small drill press! Great video, thanks for sharing. I would like to know what those small red stand off mounts are. Could you please share what they are and where you got them? Thanks!
you can make a drill for drilling plastics. You neet grand off the sharp edge so that it make a scrapping edge. Regular twist drill are just to aggressive.
What on earth did you use for filming??? The quality is impeccable!!😮😮😮
Nice bus bar, when I drill perspex I use a step drill bit and some morning fresh for a cutting compound find I don't get the cracking.
Andy, try on a scrap piece of plexiglass drilling a hole with a drill bit that has a blunt cutting edge. You might find that it won’t grab when it breaks through. And crack the plexiglass
Its looking Good 👀👍
A nice Acrylic DIY Buss Bar "Cover" would finish off both bars nicely. Ofcourse it would require cut-outs at each lug/cable termination, but would make both bars extremely safe.
A Similar design to a 240V Neutral link Cover, found In most Domestic Switchboards installations.
I'm Looking foward to your next video. 😊👌
We used pvc sheets instead of acrylic because it doesn't crack. People think building switchboards is easy but there is lots of experience required , lots of tricks.
There are some formula for calculating this it depend on the forces form from the magnetic inducted when a short sircuit happend
FYI they do make a special plexiglass drill bit the flute is different
Instead of Acrylic you could use polycarbonate to stop the plastic cracking when you drill into it.
7mm is absolutely fine for your usage
I can only imagine how hard it would have been to thread into the copper by drilling 6.8mm. I was glad I had only 7mm 😊
what a great job!
just curious, how do you know they can manage 650A?
Hi. How did you determine that bar has a 650amp tolerance
Always a "Buzz" on this channel!
I keep buzzing!
Split/spring/type lock washers are no good , they only weaken the connection.
why not using nuts instead of threading ?
There is not enough space underneath the bus bars. Once they are populated and connected, you don't want to get a spanner underneath to hold the nut, do you?
Clear polycarb is so much easier to drill
Acrylic is fine. I'll show you how to cut and drill it 😉
To support the voiceless, I can no longer use the like button ✅ . So here is a written like.
Hahaha, thanks!
Any interaction - thumbs up, thumbs down, or leaving a comment, is considered a good thing in the world of RUclips/Google algorithms, so essentially, you really did give a thumbs up. 🙂
@@carriep7812 that's not the way or structure in which algorithms are written anymore .
Perhaps consider putting a nut on the underside of your buss bar bolts to help lower the connection resistance.
How would that help? The resistance is between the bus bar and the ring terminal. Only very little current will run through the bolt itself.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Well the head of the bolt is touching the ring terminal, so its a point of contact along with the under side of the ring terminal on the buss bar. Its all about lowering the resistance.
Handwerklich auf Sicherheitsspielraum ausgelegt. Schön anzusehen. Das Englisch ist sehr gut zu verstehen for a German.. ))