U.K. Brothers in Mormon Faith Crisis - Richard & Julian Heath | Ep. 1871
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- Nemo from @NEMOTHEMORMON is back to produce another UK episode! Strap in for an epic UK Mormon Stories interview!
Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
Chapters
00:00:00 Intro by Nemo
00:01:10 Richard Heath introduction
00:03:00 Julian’s introduction
00:12:38 The family would go for a run at 6am before scripture study
00:14:06 Richard’s memories of his baptism
00:22:00 Julian’s upbringing
00:29:05 Age distribution of the kids
00:31:31 Jullian’s baptism
00:35:40 They had a brother pass away
00:39:21 The death certificate said that their brother took his own life
00:52:00 Attending Young Men’s and the Youth Program
00:55:25 He got caught “shop-lifting” once
00:58:20 Jullian’s teen years and reading the Book of Mormon
01:10:50 Seminary years
01:16:25 They started a band called Heath Uprising
01:37:35 Richard served a mission
01:48:30 Jullian served a mission as well
01:56:25 Richard’s mission experience
02:06:07 Jullian’s mission experience
02:21:58 How their missions affected their families
02:35:35 Marriage and families after mission - Jullian
02:44:00 Marriage and families after mission - Richard
02:54:30 The money and expenses of General Authorities
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I was a missionary in Julian’s ward in 2018 and he and his family were nothing but kind to me, I left the church early 2022 and I’m glad to see his story featuring on this show! Love to all
It's funny how everybody and their dog is leaving the Church.
@@charlesmendeley9823It’s not funny, it’s sad. Why give up on something that encourages good moral standards and emphasises the importance of the family unit?
@@malpreece5008 Not sure whether homophobia counts as good moral standards. These good moral standards almost drove David Archuleta to commit suicide. Not very Christlike to harm such an angel of a man like him.
@@malpreece5008 If you need a church to tell you what’s moral and that family is important, I guess you should keep going there.
@@soude85 Where do you get your morality from?
Also, why do you keep coming back to this channel? You’ve made 39 comments on here, is that because you need reassurance from other disaffected Mormons that you’ve made the right decision to abandon your faith? Why not just crack on with your life?
"i dont respect beliefs, we respect people" what a great point. we're told so often to leave the church alone, but they so obviously judge us without hearing us out. i love how honest they were even about their flaws. great interview nemo!
If the church was full of people like these guys I might have stayed! Love this time with them. Thanks Nemo!
I think I like this Heath family. They’re good people. I like how kindly they speak of their parents.
It's very refreshing to hear these men talking so openly about the power dynamics and politics involved in callings.
What a joy it would have been to go to church with this authentic family.
❤
Just a couple of lads! Lovely to see a Nemo-led interview. Good job, brother.
I am loving this!!! These Heath boys are awesome!!!
I can imagine running around with them back in the day. What a great interview by Nemo.
Thank you so much for posting this! It's so wonderful to hear their experiences. What great men.
Love this interview, I would really find it so interesting to hear from there wives thank you for sharing.. 😁👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Absolutely.
Julian's wife Ruth has been a frequent contributer on 21st Century Saints podcasts.....she speaks her mind and is a very clear and succinct speaker.
Ohh, I will look that podcast up. Thank you ❤
@@carriereid4234 I’m actually Richard’s wife but completely understand the confusion 😂
@@rooheath opps!
Some of the best people leaving the religion ❤ Great interview, thanks all
Nemo et al - LOVED this interview! I binged it beginning to end and it felt like I was part of a conversation in someone's living room. Do more like this, please! I found myself nodding and laughing and finding connection with these experiences. Thank you!
I admire how these men know about their siblings. ❤
I feel like I lost my sons to their missions. This is rebreaking my heart. They came back. One distant emotionally. The other a bit broken and changed. Yes. Your son as you know them! Truth!
There is life after mornonism. There is truths after mormonism.
I know Julian Heath very well when he served a mission in London (W).
I still admire you and your great songs. You guys did the right things. You're not alone. Seek Christ not church and you'll find him through the NT. .
I love the honesty of both these guys. It’s so normal to want to achieve in a competitive environment.
Much appreciation to all the folks at Mormon Stories for bringing this conversation to us. It is so encouraging to know that such salt-of-the-earth humans exist, even if they are eight time zones away from where I sit. I needed this today. Thank you! 💜
That is so lovely - sending love from the UK x
@@rooheath, much love back from Washington State. 💕
I love British humor
Great insights guys..your kindness compassion and tact in relating your stories are admirable. As a disaffected lifetime member I appreciate and connect to your pain of leaving but joy of discovering life after mormonism...so many Yes moments for me including now I am free to be more Christian and the spirituality found in other cultures. Nicely done Nemo!
Thank you for posting this interview. I'm sure they wouldn't remember me now, but I served in the Birmingham mission from 2008 - 2010. The Chelmsley Wood Ward was my first and final area. The Heaths were all wonderful people, and as a missionary there we absolutely knew we had their love and support.
Last year my wife and I each concluded to leave the church. It was an incredilbly harrowing decision for me, but ultimately I wanted to follow Christ and I could no longer say amen to many of the truth claims of the church I was born and raised in. Including truths that I had so vehemently expressed support of and taught to others as a missionary that I can no longer affirm.
Seeing these two share their journeys and how things have similarly changed for them since I've returned home gives me a certain catharsis that I didn't realize I needed.
I doubt they'll see this comment, but Julian and Richard, I sincerely want to thank you for sharing your stories. Figuring out what comes next is tough but also exciting in its own way. You and yours will be in my thoughts & prayers. Wishing you all the best moving forward.
- Elder Hickman
This has been fun to watch. I am an American, non-Mormon who lived in Banbury before moving onto the American base (Croughton) in the early 1990s. That is where I first met Mormons (Americans) and would go to church with them, even though I never converted. I believe they were part of the Banbury ward, too.
Nemo, you handled this interview of these refreshingly honest blokes really well. You let THEM do the bulk of the talking and you asked just the right questions to get the best out of them. Well done !!
It's crazy how many of us have a blind faith, & go along with the man made rules & laws of the church. Without looking into the history & researching etc... 🤷🏼♀️ But we do because it's expected, to ask no questions, rock the boat, embarrass the family. Not wondering why we feel uncomfortable or not enough, thinking it's us not questioning. Sad. Hard to walk away but remaining true to oneself is healthier
Yeah! for Dr. Pepper. It’s quite popular here in Texas. The drink was originally made at Morrison’s Old Corner Drug Store in Waco, TX in 1885. The drugstore owner named the drink Dr. Pepper after Dr. Charles Pepper, a doctor who was the father of a girl Morrison was once in love with. The drug store is still in Waco, it’s now a museum about the history of Dr. Pepper. I really enjoyed the brother’s story, it was nice to hear the perspective of being Mormon in a different country. Great job on the interview Nemo.
Loving this episode!!❤
Nice job Nemo! Interesting interview!
It's always a shock to me when I see Nemo from just a few years ago. He's had a major glow-up.
Loved this and loved hearing a fellow midlands accent! I’m a never Mormon but went to school with a family that were so have always been interested.
Loved hearing it from a UK perspective of Mormonism, really interesting. Would love to see more!
The impact of missions on family relationships hits right in my heart. I absolutely loved my oldest brother growing up, and once he left on his mission that was it for our relationship. Later on, my own service permanently affected my relationship with my little sister, and in being funneled along the covenant path I didn’t see that dynamic until it was too late.
Also, my father passed away from cancer while I was serving, but I got only one phone call with him before he passed, and by then he was so off his rocker on the meds that he was gone.
I’m glad that the Church came around on this, but it’s just another tradition that was prioritized above the tangible impact for much, much too long.
I suspect we have an element of this on every single issue in the church because our notion of truth and restoration has been used as a driver for retrenchment rather than seeking further light and knowledge.
This is so cool….having Nemo interviewing fellow Brits. Thanks John and all.
UK Mormon Stories, this is awesome!!!
I loved this focus on Mormon experiences beyond the US - it would be fantastic if Mormon Stories could expand to include stories from those in other countries, especially developing ones where lots of missionaries are sent.
Compelling stories! Thanks for sharing.
This was so great! Hell, if I’d had the Heath family in my ward, I may have actually liked church.
I’m so happy that they have each other on this post Mormon journey.
p.s. Ironic Priesthood is a great name for a band too.
Thank you Nemo for introducing us to the Heath's, these two lovely men are authentic and have a wonderful endearing story.
Peace!
Great interview, these guys have a wonderful story, and the English accent is so delightful to listen to. 💕
Glad you enjoyed it
Former LDS here, a 32 year veteran teacher, eldest of six children, as well. I did my student teaching through the Dept of Defense at Little Rissington in the Cotswolds in 1990, through my University in U.S. My 5th great grandmother was converted out of the Anglican church into Mormonism in 1850s by U.S. missionaries in Kent, England. She came across the Oregon Trail and married into polygamy in 1857 in Utah. Thus, in 1968, I was born and raised Mormon in the U.S. I'm so grateful to hear these brothers' stories, that they made it out, that they are critically thinking, that they know something greater is out there. I feel the love they have for each other, their mom, their family, the brother they lost. My prayer is that they find truth in the Jesus of the Bible, peace in Him alone.
Thanks Nemo for a brilliant interview; you have a gift. I especially loved everything they said in the last 35 minutes; it was profound and very relatable.
Thoroughly enjoyed these brothers, thank you!
Good job Nemo👍
I love John but this is so cool having you host from this side of the pond. Looking forward to this, even if you apparently do mess it up a bit 😂
Lovely edition... took me back to my youth / young adult days in the 1980's in the Midlands x
I know bro heath very well I served as a missionary in his ward
Hi @hourofprayer2960 which ward was this?
I was elder Moonsamy westcotes
❤lovely to hear from you!! Hope you’re doing well xx
Moonsamy! I remember you mate, hope you're doing good!
4 missionaries I have sent. The interview made my heart hurt. I love the Gospel. i am saddened by the applause.
Nemo- you’re doing a great job coordinating this discussion 😊
Great episode...
I foresee the day when the baton gets passed to Nemo :)
I know the Heath family from way back in the 1970’s when I joined the Church in Chelmsley Wood Birmingham. - like these two men, I left the church after 20 years. I am amazed how much the church has changed since those days, and softened standards that were in place then.
This is brilliant mates! Pure exmo gold!
Thanks for sharing this! They were delightful to listen to and great new perspective from 'across the pond".
Mad respect to guys who love Dr Pepper lol
I liked these brothers until they praised Dr. Pepper. Then, I loved them.
“Having 9 kids must’ve been hard work” lol. Classic
Enjoyed this one, love to see a story from the uk
Should have been put online immediately after post-production.
I thought you did a great job, Nemo!
A great interview. As far as I'm concerned well facilitated by Nemo.
Completely agree re people who are overlooked or underused in wards.
I started to notice this once we were married in the 80's and more involved in ward organisations.
Four and a half hours? Nemo, you **are** John Dehlin. 😂
These are the very cool, super wonderful I'm A Mormon people, ha! Great interview Nemo, really love and appreciate their story.
I’m from New Zealand (now live in Australia) I have never had Mormon missionaries where I am in Aus but we had two young men when my partner at the time lived in Dunedin, they used to come past and talk to my Partner when he was working on his car, I figure there were few people that spoke to them other places they went and that’s why they came back, there are few people that are going to be looking for something spiritual right at the time there is a knock on their door so it would be hard just knocking on people’s doors all day and getting the door shut in your face.
I LOVE them!
Great interview ❤
Nemo! Great interviewer!
Dave Cook’s comment that it takes a special kind of person to work for the CES is very true - and that person is one who is loyal to the institution of the church above ALL else, including their family. My dad worked with Dave Cook for the CES since 1976. At that time, they had five CES representatives covering the whole British Isles - Dave Cook, Craig Marshall, Warrick Kear, Mike Dockrill (my dad) and Bruce Flinn. It was actually very helpful to grow up with super orthodox parents- it makes it easier to see through the BS.
It's great to see the unity and love in the Heath family. Richard mentioned his son discovering other religions which were saying the same things as Jesus. We're living at a time when all this knowledge of all religions is as close as our smart phone, and it does make it really hard to hold on to a belief that the religion you're born into is the one true faith, or at least the best faith. Just imagine that you were born into a family in India or Egypt. Is it just bad luck for those millions of babies not born into a Christian or Mormon family? Since both of the Heaths are teachers, they know that a good teacher tailors lessons to the needs and developmental level of the students. You can look at religion as a school with many levels appearing throughout the ages in all parts of the world. Most cultures have had religious Teachers, or Prophets, who adapted their teachings to the needs of the time. They may use different metaphors, but the messages they bring are one "Voice". This can be a more universal way of seeing religion if the "one true religion" doesn't make sense, and it's a much better way to view the human race as one family, rather than the true believers and the heathen.
After finishing listening to this, I was struck by something: Nemo made space for Julian's continued belief in God. This is something I see John Dehlin not doing, and I really appreciate it.
Sometimes the Exmo space feels like the LDS space: you are either 100% with us, or you are out. And believing in God and Jesus does not sit well with mainstream exmos, just like having doubts doesn't sit well with TBMS.
Nemo, I think you are the perfect middle ground. Thank you for an amazing, heartwarming interview with two lovely people.
Excellent and fun from some of the Britvenger crew.
Ask them about Gordon Hinckley and the Windsor Club. Do the English Saints know about that?
Do tell.
Joseph's myth...that was funny
Omg, I've been trying to get in touch with Julian about one of his songs (crazy girl). Hit me up if you know how to reach him :)
😂 that is such a good song !
He used to teach seminary
Then my heart got stopped by a medical accident!! God didn't bring me back some fantastic Nurses and Doctors and some high Voltage got me back.
Never heard this aspect of missions spoken a out loud. Loss is pain and trauma. And yes. Waste of time. Thank god they changed the rules
Why was the church always keen for Mormon boys to do scout programme run in church. But all girls had to go to other churches than ran brownies and guides. It still winds me up all these years later.
Great questions!
NEMO +++++
It's. Hard for people rise in the church you can only go so far on your parents testimony nobody can tell you if there's a God nobody can tell that there no God you have to find out for yourself if you what
Where are they now.
I remember seeing an area authority that was speaking in the Chorley Chapel 1 time pulling away in a sports car afterwards.
Nothing against people having a sports car but couldn't help thinking it was a bit excessive when members of the Church struggle with money
The rich young man thing it what gets me too. I also remember I joined the church in 2002. Only endowed members could wave their white hankacheifs at navoo temple opening... I wanted to too, but wasn't allowed to participate in the chapel.... that was some of the beginning of hypocrisy, I noticed. Though I'm still a member, I just follow the personal experiences that christ instructs me (which has happened before i joined) and not church leaders because I find they are hypocritical. So little revelations coming down. Also I hate wearing ties... that's an unnecessary restriction too, I'm sure jesus didn't.
Active member here, I know this news isn’t what y’all want to hear, but I just got home from my mission in London. The church was growing almost WEEKLY, so even though sadly a couple outliers fall off here and there it doesn’t compare to the weekly increase of interested people! I hope the church keeps flocking like it has in the past year over in London!!
Goody for you, did they give you a gold star?
@@lydiaj7492 do they let you drink coffee now?
Love exmo Brits❤
According to Kevin Pearson once you're baptized you have no freedom.
Hey! Don't call me Slag! J/K, all my students and missionary companions called me that...
I had no real belief then I joined masonry and started to believe.
I now believe in science and good pekple.
Notice how unlike the church in the USA, these guys dont go on about child molestation, prepping and general stupid behaviour? There is a big difference between hwo the church is in Europe and over there in Utah.....
The supernatural is still real. Even if Mormonism lied about their side. The Spiritual Realm was here long before Mormonism.
Who knows, perhaps the truth is stranger than fiction! (Lots of current christian religions - disagree on many aspects) Many pieces of the puzzle are not yet solved, and perhaps the LDS - has a few secrets (bits of info) to fit in! (We'll all soon know - and it might shock a lot of people). Religion can't always be explained through history and logic - (definitely is a "mystical aspect to it)!!!
I don't think it does. It's all between the ears. We are a very imaginative species of ape.
OK I'll take the bait. What's your PROOF that the supernatural is real and not just a product of human imagination and delusion?
The great Oz has spoken.
@@sme91158 I guess we would first have to define what the supernatural means. However millions of ndes are a start. Not including miracles visions etc. all I know the physical realm intellectual realm scientific realm etcetera
There's still a lot that we don't know. However if I were a betting person I wouldn't bet against it. Heck even AI recently has proved that. Hope that's a start
I shouldn't find the hair being a problem the minute you rock up at mtc funny, but literally every picture of Jesus he has long hair. You should have told them you were trying to be authentic and Christlike.
I found the church to be true but if you put your trust in people you'll be disappointed every time
I understand - I used to feel the same way. Now, I see the church as not being the one and only true church (as I once thought it was). Honestly - I find most people more real without my religious lens.
Why are all your pods hours and hours long? Like everyone in 2024 my attention span is 9 minutes