Here is the deal with Carowinds. First off, in recent years they have been in the chosen category in the CF chain. Charlotte has a very young educated population which is what businesses covet. Secondly, the headquarters are now in Charlotte. With that, all the managers, and vendors will come to Charlotte/Carowinds for training, meetings and business. I feel the executives would want their 'cooperate' park to be the example of the chain. This is like Mack Rides and Europa-Park. If you want to see what Mack Rides represent, you go that park. Same with Six Flags and Carowinds. Kings Dominion's fate will be determined by what they do with SFA. That park could be successful if given the CF Carowinds treatment. They are in a high density populated area and there is no excuse to be languishing the way they are.
I would agree that in the future, IF the Charlotte area's growth continues, this park will move to Top Tier by the 2030's. If this happens (Which is likely) then I could see SFOG moving down a tier simultaneously. But I think your overall premise is spot on, just gonna take a little more sustained regional growth before we see it.
I could be wrong, but the way I understand that agreement, it could be extended. Hopefully not, though. Far more beneficial for the parks growth to have LESS chiefs and more indians.
The thing about where SFOG is located, is that the city of Atlanta is one of the fastest growing cities in the US. It might remain a solid mid-tier park for now but could be a potential top tier in a few years since CF may have intrests of expanding into Georgia.
This and over Texas are interesting cases. Both have private money involved with minority ownership, and I'm not certain of either sides exit clauses... especially after the merger. But in theory, I do agree with your premise.
I don't think sfa will be sold. They just invested in a reimagined area of the park. If six flags would invest in this park more, this would become a great park to visit and for people not to drive a long drive to a different park.
They did some reimagining, but besides new trains for mind eraser and a couple flat rides, but nothing MAJOR. If I were trying to extract value out of something I owned, I would polish it up to the best of my ability without making any MAJOR investments. Just a little bit of lipstick on the pig. Although I hope they keep both, I see a 30% chance of SFA being dealt.
I like your rankings very much. However, I feel that Six Flags Mexico should be higher up on your list. This metro area is enormous and I believe that the next major expansion at SFM will be a waterpark. It’s an absolutely beautiful park and I believe that the new merged company is going to look at international development and expansion to grow revenues. Another “diamond in the rough” is Six Flags America. They have unlimited potential IF they invest.
Thanks for the kind words! We really appreciate you joining the community! Please see my above comment regarding SFA, but in terms of SFM, they don't need to go crazy and give it Cedar Point or even Kings Island's level of investment because they have ZERO competition. SFM is essentially Lagoon. No real major parks within HOURS. Corporate will search for which properties will give the best ROI.
Carowinds will be in the chosen tier very soon. They moved corporate off the peninsula, and CP has been going downhill ever since. Theyll still treat CP like a chosen park, but youll always have a better time at Kings Island any day of the week.
Michigan's Adventure wont be sold cuz it gets zero investment and makes money. Thats free money right there. Six Flags America is the park I see on the chopping block. Sure its in the DC area but its also redundant cuz its right in the middle of Great Adventure, Dorney and King's Dominion.. The land it sits on may be more valuable than the park itself
You could end up being right on Michigan's Adventure, but I have additional reasons to believe this park is on it's way out in the next few years. I meet a lot of park employees as I travel. The fascinating conversations that I have with people help guide my content and some opinions. I believe there is smoke here, but I will also acknowledge that I'm speculating on who is actually going to purchase it. But considering that my prediction happened prior to these conversations, I really believe there is a 60% chance that by 2028 Michigan's Adventure will be hosting Phantom Fright Nights in October. lol
@PRC2019 It won't be Palace if anyone. They're hemorrhaging money as is. I know they lost a shit ton on Lake Compounce last year alone...and the whole Steel Curtain debacle at Kennywood...which I've heard from several people is more Palace's faul than S&S fault
Not sure I would trust those sources anymore lol. Parques is an incredibly successful operator. Lake Compounce is doing great, park looks amazing, and wildcats retrack will finally gets completed in the off-season, but what they've done so far rides very well. Huge improvement. Kennywood felt confident enough to file a lawsuit against S&S, and miraculously S&S is all of a sudden helping fix the ride. (I hear S&S is also partially on the hook for the 3rd party engineer too) So, yeah. Very likely that Parques looks to expand its US footprint. Maybe not Mich Adv, but again, I'm going out on a limb and feel pretty confident, but we shall see. I can safely say that being sold to Parques would be the best thing for the park's long term success, because right now, The New Six Flags has no incentive to improve the ride lineup of a park that already prints them money. (I but I'm not sure it's going to make the cut) So let's hope that I'm right! I want a healthy shivering timbers and wolverine wildcat for decades to come!
@PRC2019 I worked at LC last year for fun. GCI was PISSED cuz the park was letting one of their trains on Wildcat literally rot underneath the ride and more or less forced them to refurb the train. The train they are running now(the one with leopard spots) is that refurbed train. They noticed that on their own while doing work on Boulder Dash. They took out the Bumper Cars for "cost" Old rides manager told me that flume is probably next on the chopping block.
@@Posirep well it seems they're hopefully starting to right some wrongs from past seasons. Other than that, how did you like your experience working there?
They said they want to keep all parks because they already calculated if selling parks was worth it and they didn’t see any other park other than the Northern California park they are already selling but they want to keep them all because they need all the money they can get selling a park or multiple will bring in a lot in the front en but lessen the amount for the rest of the other years don’t think any will get closed for the next 10 years to be completely honest how they have been talking about it at least in earnings calls and info about it they realize to investors
It's called "placating" to your investors. I love their optimism, I'm just not certain they're being practical (or honest, to be frank). Parks will be sold within 5 yrs. No doubts. At some point, they become a stronger company and a stronger borrower by limiting their exposure to liability via lease agreements. I can see them acquiring Darien Lake from EPR.
Darien Lake is actually a PROFITABLE park for Six Flags. They aren't selling that off. Michigan's Adventure is also a profitable park for CF. Neither one of those parks are going anywhere. They don't plan on selling ANY of the parks, according to Zimmerman.
Darien Lake isn't owned by six flags, as I had mentioned, it is an epr property. So a lot has to do with EPR's willingness to maintain the park per the new companies standards (which will be much more cedar fair than six flags)
Out of curiosity why Carowinds in mid tier and not in top tier? The new CF/SF headquarters is located in Charlotte North Carolina, and we know they still have big plans for the park. I think it makes more sense to switch them and Kings Dominion's places in the tier list.
You're right. And as soon as they moved corporate off the peninsula in Sandusky, Cedar Point has been going downhill. I'm there a lot. Some would say too much, but screw em. 😂 I've seen it happening just like I said it would.
I think Carowinds will definitely be in the top tier, Knotts will probably stay in mid tier due to the lack of space to expand. Since California’s Great America is a mid tier park and will be gone soon, I could see Kings Dominion becoming a top tier park because they have tons of space to expand and have to keep up with Busch Gardens Williamsburg
@@Operager yeah I completely agree about Knotts, it always seemed like they wanted to do a lot with it but they just couldn't. I think with Kings Dominion, where they land in the tierlist kinda depends on how this upcoming coaster does
@namevone, Just the sense that I get. They're waiting to see more sustained growth from the Charlotte metro before bumping it up a bit in priority. But we are literally right on the cusp of Carowinds transforming into a top tier in front of our eyes, which should be cool. By 2030, I think it will be lumped with kings island and kings Dominion...just like it used to be! Lol
You are underselling Carowinds. It is top tier and moving up to golden child status. Knotts is top tier even on a bad day. People who have been to SF Mexico say it is better than most of the other SF parks, so to clsim it as bottom feeder is just silliness. With thst huge theme psrk resort heading fir Oklahoma, I'd say Frontier City will get sold. It is landlocked and no room to do anything. Worlds of Fun and SF St. Louis take nothing away from Silver Dollar City. People from all over the world go to Branson for vacation. St. Louis isn't a vacation destination. People from St. Louis drive by SF on their way to Silver Dollar City multiple times a season. St. Louis goes to SF once a year, maybe again for Halloween.
I'm not rating the parks, I'm predicting where capital is going to be flowing for the next decade. And which parks could get cut. I love Carowinds and Knott's, but they simply do not get the same investment levels as a cedar point or Kings Island level park... YET. But it's coming.
Additionally, SF Mexico has quite literally zero competition. I can assure you, they will not receive investments at the same level and pace as a top tier park. Not even close. Also frontier City is owned by EPR properties, as I stated in the video. Nothing to sell. They don't own it. They just operate it under a lease.
Here is the deal with Carowinds. First off, in recent years they have been in the chosen category in the CF chain. Charlotte has a very young educated population which is what businesses covet. Secondly, the headquarters are now in Charlotte. With that, all the managers, and vendors will come to Charlotte/Carowinds for training, meetings and business. I feel the executives would want their 'cooperate' park to be the example of the chain. This is like Mack Rides and Europa-Park. If you want to see what Mack Rides represent, you go that park. Same with Six Flags and Carowinds. Kings Dominion's fate will be determined by what they do with SFA. That park could be successful if given the CF Carowinds treatment. They are in a high density populated area and there is no excuse to be languishing the way they are.
I would agree that in the future, IF the Charlotte area's growth continues, this park will move to Top Tier by the 2030's. If this happens (Which is likely) then I could see SFOG moving down a tier simultaneously. But I think your overall premise is spot on, just gonna take a little more sustained regional growth before we see it.
Over Texas is locked in a partnership until 2028. Once that's over, I'd expect things to improve.
I could be wrong, but the way I understand that agreement, it could be extended. Hopefully not, though. Far more beneficial for the parks growth to have LESS chiefs and more indians.
The thing about where SFOG is located, is that the city of Atlanta is one of the fastest growing cities in the US. It might remain a solid mid-tier park for now but could be a potential top tier in a few years since CF may have intrests of expanding into Georgia.
This and over Texas are interesting cases. Both have private money involved with minority ownership, and I'm not certain of either sides exit clauses... especially after the merger.
But in theory, I do agree with your premise.
I don't think sfa will be sold. They just invested in a reimagined area of the park. If six flags would invest in this park more, this would become a great park to visit and for people not to drive a long drive to a different park.
They did some reimagining, but besides new trains for mind eraser and a couple flat rides, but nothing MAJOR. If I were trying to extract value out of something I owned, I would polish it up to the best of my ability without making any MAJOR investments. Just a little bit of lipstick on the pig. Although I hope they keep both, I see a 30% chance of SFA being dealt.
I like your rankings very much. However, I feel that Six Flags Mexico should be higher up on your list. This metro area is enormous and I believe that the next major expansion at SFM will be a waterpark. It’s an absolutely beautiful park and I believe that the new merged company is going to look at international development and expansion to grow revenues.
Another “diamond in the rough” is Six Flags America. They have unlimited potential IF they invest.
Thanks for the kind words! We really appreciate you joining the community! Please see my above comment regarding SFA, but in terms of SFM, they don't need to go crazy and give it Cedar Point or even Kings Island's level of investment because they have ZERO competition. SFM is essentially Lagoon. No real major parks within HOURS. Corporate will search for which properties will give the best ROI.
Carowinds will be in the chosen tier very soon. They moved corporate off the peninsula, and CP has been going downhill ever since. Theyll still treat CP like a chosen park, but youll always have a better time at Kings Island any day of the week.
and Carowinds still runs like the worst park in the chain.
Easily the worst run park of any park I went to all of last year.
@@Posirep we had a decent time down there in April for a weekend.
Michigan's Adventure wont be sold cuz it gets zero investment and makes money. Thats free money right there.
Six Flags America is the park I see on the chopping block. Sure its in the DC area but its also redundant cuz its right in the middle of Great Adventure, Dorney and King's Dominion.. The land it sits on may be more valuable than the park itself
You could end up being right on Michigan's Adventure, but I have additional reasons to believe this park is on it's way out in the next few years. I meet a lot of park employees as I travel. The fascinating conversations that I have with people help guide my content and some opinions. I believe there is smoke here, but I will also acknowledge that I'm speculating on who is actually going to purchase it. But considering that my prediction happened prior to these conversations, I really believe there is a 60% chance that by 2028 Michigan's Adventure will be hosting Phantom Fright Nights in October. lol
@PRC2019 It won't be Palace if anyone. They're hemorrhaging money as is. I know they lost a shit ton on Lake Compounce last year alone...and the whole Steel Curtain debacle at Kennywood...which I've heard from several people is more Palace's faul than S&S fault
Not sure I would trust those sources anymore lol.
Parques is an incredibly successful operator.
Lake Compounce is doing great, park looks amazing, and wildcats retrack will finally gets completed in the off-season, but what they've done so far rides very well. Huge improvement.
Kennywood felt confident enough to file a lawsuit against S&S, and miraculously S&S is all of a sudden helping fix the ride. (I hear S&S is also partially on the hook for the 3rd party engineer too)
So, yeah. Very likely that Parques looks to expand its US footprint.
Maybe not Mich Adv, but again, I'm going out on a limb and feel pretty confident, but we shall see.
I can safely say that being sold to Parques would be the best thing for the park's long term success, because right now, The New Six Flags has no incentive to improve the ride lineup of a park that already prints them money. (I but I'm not sure it's going to make the cut)
So let's hope that I'm right! I want a healthy shivering timbers and wolverine wildcat for decades to come!
@PRC2019 I worked at LC last year for fun. GCI was PISSED cuz the park was letting one of their trains on Wildcat literally rot underneath the ride and more or less forced them to refurb the train. The train they are running now(the one with leopard spots) is that refurbed train. They noticed that on their own while doing work on Boulder Dash.
They took out the Bumper Cars for "cost"
Old rides manager told me that flume is probably next on the chopping block.
@@Posirep well it seems they're hopefully starting to right some wrongs from past seasons. Other than that, how did you like your experience working there?
I think SF America is going to be sold too. They can afford to dump that one if they're keeping Dorney and Kings Dominion.
They said they want to keep all parks because they already calculated if selling parks was worth it and they didn’t see any other park other than the Northern California park they are already selling but they want to keep them all because they need all the money they can get selling a park or multiple will bring in a lot in the front en but lessen the amount for the rest of the other years don’t think any will get closed for the next 10 years to be completely honest how they have been talking about it at least in earnings calls and info about it they realize to investors
It's called "placating" to your investors.
I love their optimism, I'm just not certain they're being practical (or honest, to be frank).
Parks will be sold within 5 yrs. No doubts. At some point, they become a stronger company and a stronger borrower by limiting their exposure to liability via lease agreements. I can see them acquiring Darien Lake from EPR.
Darien Lake is actually a PROFITABLE park for Six Flags. They aren't selling that off. Michigan's Adventure is also a profitable park for CF. Neither one of those parks are going anywhere. They don't plan on selling ANY of the parks, according to Zimmerman.
Darien Lake isn't owned by six flags, as I had mentioned, it is an epr property. So a lot has to do with EPR's willingness to maintain the park per the new companies standards (which will be much more cedar fair than six flags)
Out of curiosity why Carowinds in mid tier and not in top tier? The new CF/SF headquarters is located in Charlotte North Carolina, and we know they still have big plans for the park. I think it makes more sense to switch them and Kings Dominion's places in the tier list.
Kinda wondering about that one and Knott's both! He's pretty good about replying though, so hopefully we'll see 🙈🙉
You're right. And as soon as they moved corporate off the peninsula in Sandusky, Cedar Point has been going downhill. I'm there a lot. Some would say too much, but screw em. 😂 I've seen it happening just like I said it would.
I think Carowinds will definitely be in the top tier, Knotts will probably stay in mid tier due to the lack of space to expand. Since California’s Great America is a mid tier park and will be gone soon, I could see Kings Dominion becoming a top tier park because they have tons of space to expand and have to keep up with Busch Gardens Williamsburg
@@Operager yeah I completely agree about Knotts, it always seemed like they wanted to do a lot with it but they just couldn't. I think with Kings Dominion, where they land in the tierlist kinda depends on how this upcoming coaster does
@namevone, Just the sense that I get. They're waiting to see more sustained growth from the Charlotte metro before bumping it up a bit in priority.
But we are literally right on the cusp of Carowinds transforming into a top tier in front of our eyes, which should be cool.
By 2030, I think it will be lumped with kings island and kings Dominion...just like it used to be! Lol
You are underselling Carowinds. It is top tier and moving up to golden child status. Knotts is top tier even on a bad day. People who have been to SF Mexico say it is better than most of the other SF parks, so to clsim it as bottom feeder is just silliness. With thst huge theme psrk resort heading fir Oklahoma, I'd say Frontier City will get sold. It is landlocked and no room to do anything.
Worlds of Fun and SF St. Louis take nothing away from Silver Dollar City. People from all over the world go to Branson for vacation. St. Louis isn't a vacation destination. People from St. Louis drive by SF on their way to Silver Dollar City multiple times a season. St. Louis goes to SF once a year, maybe again for Halloween.
I'm not rating the parks, I'm predicting where capital is going to be flowing for the next decade. And which parks could get cut.
I love Carowinds and Knott's, but they simply do not get the same investment levels as a cedar point or Kings Island level park... YET.
But it's coming.
Additionally, SF Mexico has quite literally zero competition. I can assure you, they will not receive investments at the same level and pace as a top tier park. Not even close.
Also frontier City is owned by EPR properties, as I stated in the video. Nothing to sell. They don't own it. They just operate it under a lease.