Many thanks Tractorman44! I am very impressed you did that video in such a short time, just for me! I'll give it a try as soon as I can get the Case inside the garage. Be sure I'll make a video of it! Thanks again! P.S. I always read the video description!
You might be interested to take a look at a video I did last summer (link below). You will see what I meant. Good thing is the new "idiot" light I installed (yellow) is a LED light! I wired this light so it indicates the ignition switch is ON (to avoid accidental burning of the points). So I think the rewiring modification will be very easy. I'll take time to run another wire from terminal 2 (voltage sensing, I guess) back to the ignition switch. Then with your diagram, when the engine will not be running, this LED will still be ON for my initial purpose. ruclips.net/video/scJ1lDJ1K9o/видео.html
No problem Joe. Like I say there are many variations to accomplish the same thing. About the description...I really was going to just make this a private one and figure out how to get it to you, but I quickly scrapped that video and reworded some stuff for the tractor-trolls (lol) in this one and made it public. I surely hope it will be of assistance. On one tractor, I just jumped terminal 2 to terminal 1 and its worked for 20 years. But I think 2 is intended to be powered directly from the battery + because like you said, its the voltage sensing terminal that probably tells the internal regulator what to do and just jumping it to #1 isn't true battery (or system operating) voltage, its just reading generated output voltage after the alternator is excited. Someone may provide actual info for us instead of my speculation. Oh, and thanks for reading the descriptions. I do religiously read them on every video because sometimes there is critical information there. A lot of people don't read them which is why sometimes I put some 'tongue-in-cheek' comments in them. lolol. Sick American humor I guess..... I'll go look at your video from last summer now. I kinda wished I'd seen it first though...lolol too late now.
Joe I went and watched your video. At 19:30 there's almost a perfect shot of the plastic plug covering terminal 1&2 opening. Is that a field installed plug or is that an actual factory plug that was in the alternator when you bought it. It's my understanding that if that plug is in there from the factory, it is in fact a true 'one wire' alternator. If that's the case, my video's solution won't help you. I also noticed you crossed the 'batt' to the ground pin to initiate charging which is a different experience than I've seen. So for the moment I am a bit confused..... But that's an easy thing for me....lolol
Mark, I can't hide anything from you! One project is ending and the paint is drying! Then this afternoon, I start another with Dave (RCAFpolarexpress). But this morning is not too cold (±30°F) and I will give it a try if possible!
This diode fix also worked with my series 2a Land Rover. Dynamo to Alternator conversion with regular bulb in the dash. Engine wouldn't shut off with key. Fixed now. Thanks!
Thanks for the comment. It was just to be a quick vid for a buddys tractor or I would have put more thought into it. Hope it helped you in some small way.
Thanks, good tips. My ford 655c has had no output for year. Soon as I flashed it with a hot lead, went from 12 to 14.5v. finally found the exciter wire off the ignition switch. then, found the battery sensor with cut wires and fixed that. this unit apparently wont charge with out at least 200 ohms of resistance on that outer terminal that goes into the regulator on the alternator.
Well its good to get them working again. I've got a Denso one wire not working right now...but its only a loose belt that I've not given attention to yet. These old tractors aren't nearly as complicated as just about any automotive system. I converted my 4500 Ford years ago just to get away from the problematic Lucas electrical system.
No nay sayer here, just an old Gmaw that loves to learn something new every day. Your description box info is awesome. Tractor Troll be darned in my opinion and probably don't even take time to read a description box. If they'd take time to listen to understand instead of listening to reply they might learn something beneficial. All my best to your Mrs. Hope y'all have a good day!
As always, a pleasant reply from a pleasant lady. Thank you ma'am for commenting on the description box. I try not to overdo it, but the box is there for a reason and providing that description just may eliminate a question or two that may arise somewhere in the video. Plus I don't mind attempting to be 'funny' in there too..... Well, maybe to troll the trolls with a pre-emptive strike too, so to speak. lololol All our best to you and yours from Mary and myself as well, and thank you for the well wishes ma'am.
Thanks, I just did this conversion. I thought terminal one just provided a ground for the dummy light and left it unhooked. Needless to say things were not charging. Just ran a quick test and it's working now. I'll create a permanent circuit in the morning. Thanks again!
I'm sure there are variations, but at least this one works for me. Terminal 1 is actually the terminal that excites the alternator, but on old low rpm tractors sometimes you have to elevate the rpms to get to the exciter to do its job. We sometimes, if available, solve that by utilizing a smaller pully. A hot rod car engine should have no issue at all. Terminal 2 just provides input to the internal workings of the alternator concerning the actual battery voltage to allow it to self adjust its output to charge and maintain the battery. Cliff notes version, but it works. Sometimes I use a red LED in place of the standard diode. It acts like the old 'idiot' light on the car dash. It comes on as soon as the key is switched on, then shuts off as soon as the alternator begins output. Sometimes they flicker real dim, but I've suffered no damage to my systems yet.
@@tractorman4461 I installed a GM 3 wire on a JD 2030. To try your circuit I hooked the test light clamp to positive and touched the probe to pin 1. The light lit, I upped the rpm and the test light went out. The voltmeter said 13.8. At idle the alternator continues to charge after initialization. I don't know why this information isn't more available. Glad you shared your knowledge!
Alan Bloodworth well I am glad this solved your issue and your test procedure was perfect. I don’t have anything as new as your JD, as my tractors are 30’s 40’s and 50’s. The Delco “one wire” internally regulated and self exciting regulator is the favored choice for most old tractor and hot rod enthusiasts, as it requires nothing but one wire to the + terminal of the battery. Thanks for your comments sir and please have a nice day and stay warm wherever you are.
Good evening T44! That was really helpful and one to keep in my files for later. Well explained and makes a lot of sense. Man, Radio Shack was my absolute favourite store when I was a kid. We had one in our local little plaza in town and when my mom would take us shopping, I would hang out in the Radio Shack store while she was doing groceries. I got my very first Multimeter build kit from there when I was young. So excited to get home and solder all the components together and watch it work. Sad to say we don't have them here anymore- probably for a good 30 years now. Thanks for the instructional. Love your videos. And thanks for the walk down memory lane. LOL. Cheers!
GP Outdoors oh man this is hilarious !! I’m here answering a couple new comments and find your comment from a whole year ago sitting here unanswered !! LOL ! We didn’t have a Radio Shack but in the back of Dad’s ‘True Detective’ magazines were the ads for build it yourself electronics. So I built my first crystal radio and galvanometer and other things from the kits. I just remembered the name....Heathkits. Good memories GP, of a much simpler time in our lives... sorry for missing your comment. Take care sir and have a safe week !!
this is exactly what i was looking for to connect my 1 wire alternator for my 1952 Willys CJ3A. It had generator but previous person did a half hearted job converting to 12V system with the bad alternator still mounted. anyway i cut the chase. I order the two wire plug (with red and white wire) that goes into the alternator that has with embedded diode. It was good to know the purpose of the diode is to allow the volt only travel one way out and it prevent from going back to the alternator, otherwise it will fry the battery when alternator keeps charging the battery beyond the capacity. Thank you for the great video and information provided. Bob
I didn't realize this video was going to be popular or there would have been much more detail. This was just a quick way to get this to a friend in Canada that was having trouble with his Case tractor with a Delco system. I hope you solved your issue and thank you for watching and commenting.
I believe you've just explained that so well that I now have the confidence to tackle an issue I have with my marinised kubota engine. Brilliant video sir. Many thanks for posting it. It was exactly the information I was looking for.
This was just a quick non-planned video I did for a Canadian friend to trouble shoot his tractor. I had no idea it would become this well viewed or I would have taken my time with it. BUT...if you have the time, take a quick look at this video where I drew a diagram for a 1972 Ford 2000. It MIGHT be a little better presented here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
Thank you for a great early morning comment !! I just did this real quick for my buddy up North with no prior preparation given to thought. I would've presented it a bit different had I taken the time to think it all out. The ammeter will work in the circuit this way, but really should be downstream of the key reading all the juice consumed after starting and not all the juice put out by the alternator like it would in series with the Batt terminal. This was specifically for old antique tractors where there is little need for much output which is why it will work like this, but not in a vehicle that has a continuous heavy electrical load. The ammeter won't last in that situation and heavy output could possibly peg the meter pretty easily. Thank you again for the kind comment. Have a wonderful week and good luck with your project.
Hahaha....well, that's good to hear James. Hey, this basic drawing was just to help a Canadian friend out with a charging issue and I had no idea so many others would be interested in it. Here is a much more detailed drawing I made recently on a 1972 Ford 2000 tractor. You may find it interesting as well. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Thank you for the kind comment and I hope you enjoy this one as well. Actually there is a playlist up top that includes the whole conversion if you are interested.
Well Donald M. I am glad it helped. I only did this on a whim for a buddy that was having trouble with his Delco on an old tractor. Literally in minutes. If I'd have known it was going to be looked at by more than just a few people I would have taken the time to make it much better. Like the ammeter really shouldn't go directly in line with the 'Batt' wire because ALL the generated amperage will flow through the guage. It'll work in most cases of old tractors though, because there really isn't much of a load. But it really should be off the ignition circuit. Thanks for the comment and I hope you have continued luck. I do have a couple other videos converting old tractors to one wire alternators like this one:ruclips.net/video/kOTA9EfhEos/видео.html and I am uploading another one yet this evening. These new ones utilize voltmeters instead of ammeters.
This was a quick video to help out a buddy in Canada. I didn't know it would be viewed by so many or I'd have made a much better one. Here's one for a Ford 2000 that's a little more comprehensive: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html and here is the whole playlist, start to finish on the 2000 Ford: ruclips.net/p/PLk72G9DTzZ1uBYT70un1MnWxpiZ8f017c
Herman Schmidt hope you won your bracket !! And of course I hope your car is still charging. This is the way I do it on antique tractors and but never installed it in a more sophisticated electrical circuit.
Fantastic. I have MF 135 diesel and have been trying to make this work for years. You gave a very clear explanation of it all and I am about to give it a go. All the options on wiring and low rpm exciter where helpful as well.
Great Michael Good luck with your project. Check out this more complete set up I did recently for a 1972 Ford 2000 gas tractor: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Plus there's two videos of installing all of it and starting and checking it out one step at a time. If you check my playlist up above, I think it says something about 2000 Fords in the title.
Great info! I’m planning to make a remote controlled push mower and had seen other videos where people put a GM alternator to keep the battery charged (since the wheelchair motors drive the mower) now I understand how to wire it up. Thanks!!
Amazon has a one wire self exciting one for less than $50 that only needs one wire similar to the Delco. The good thing about this one is its about a 60 amp output, is only 4 1/2'' in diameter and weighs about 4 pounds. Good luck with your project !!
Thank you for the video. I have a 1971 Allis Chalmers that wasn’t charging. Purchased 2 one wire alternators and both wouldn’t charge. Definitely trying this out.
Remember that the self exciting alternators have varying minimum rpm requirements to begin voltage output. I have one that has to hit over 1500 rpm before it creates output, but another one that begins almost immediately after starting. Most automotive alternators used on tractor engines require that the engine rev up to get to that rpm, and will not necessarily begin putting out at an idle though. The one wire alternators purchased from tractor supply houses like Steiner Tractor or Yesterdays Tractors are fitted with special 'low rpm exciters' that allow them to create voltage at the much slower idle to mid range rpm rates of the tractors. Another point...this video was really intended for a buddy that was having a problem so it was slammed together with little prep work. Consequently, the ammeter really should be downstream from the key to show consumption of the electrical circuits and not the TOTAL load placed on the alternator. It should work like this on the old tractors that really have little load, but downstream of the key, reflecting lighting use, solonoid use etc would be a better choice I believe. Good luck with the old Allis sir.
Good morning Dave and yes, Joe is definitely a remarkable man and fabricator. We are all benefiting from his videos in one way or another. Thank you for the compliment and thank you for taking the time to watch sir.
Thanks man....I didn't take much time to really think it all through....a buddy in Canada was having an issue with his tractor so I knocked this out and posted it because I didn't know how to send it to him privately. If I'd have known it was to be looked at by so many, I would have done a much better job at it... Thanks for the complimentary comment !!
Yes you are correct. This was just a simple drawing meant for a buddy who was having a problem with his tractor. The easiest way to get it to him was putting it on youtube. Had I known there was so much interest, I would have made a much different and more precise drawing. This took literally 5 or 6 minutes to sketch out....but if you look at #2 it does connect to the same terminal like you said...the Batt terminal. It just goes across the page to connect to it. Thanks Dan for the input. We ARE in agreement.
@Dan Knight This (as you prove) will work, but someone having trouble with charging voltage at the battery should move the line to the battery's terminal.
Tractorman, love the knowledgeable information. I too learned from you and Joe. I don't have an older tractor but I surely enjoyed the conversation between you and Joe. Great stuff (we learn from this). This is what I think good sharing of brain waves is all about (smile). Thanks for viewing my channel and you're among a good group of helpful and considerate folks on RUclips. You don't have to be a tractor person though I sure do like your call-sign (smile). Have a good day and look forward to viewing more of your channel. You have some nice videos. 👍.
Thank you sir, for the very pleasant comment. Like I told Dave over at DaveKnowsHow..people that enjoy tractors new or old kinda have a subtle connection among themselves...and with that connection usually comes a degree of respect. I saw the delivery video of your new tractor and bush hog btw. Man, must be nice..... Seriously though, thank you again for the kind words above, and I hope to see you around ever so often... what's that they say about birds of a feather..?? lol
Good info! I converted my Ferguson 30 several years ago and I think I have a 1 wire only, but the tractor has to be revved up before the amp gauge shows a charge, maybe if I added the LED I wouldn't have to rev it up.
Good evening sir !! Yours is probably a standard Delco which requires a bit of a higher rpm to initiate a charge. But it could really be charging from the time it starts, but the resolution on the ammeter isn't great enough to record that slight output but does show it as the output just gets a little higher with the increased rpm. Which is why a lot of guys install a voltmeter instead of an ammeter. The volt meter WILL show the slight increase in output voltage when maybe the ammeter isn't quite capable of showing a slight increase in amperage. Oops, that's kind of a repeated answer, just saying it a little differently. If its a true one wire, it shouldn't have a terminal 1 or 2 available. And usually a three wire won't excite at all automatically without initial voltage applied to terminal 1 regardless of rpm. Terminal 2 just reads (senses) the voltage (as I understand it) to tell the internal regulator to increase or decrease output. Someone may correct me on that if its correct. Thanks for taking a look...I don't know much, but you are welcome to it anytime sir !! Thank you also for the comment.
@@tractorman4461Thanks, I did it so long ago ,its probably a 1 wire , I have not regretted it one bit! I remember brush hogging when it was 6v , if I would accidentally kill the motor , might as well walk back and take a nap because it wasn't starting again for a while!
Thanks James...this video was literally just a quick note I'd made for a Canadian buddy to help troubleshoot his tractor and I thought this was the easiest way to get it to him....I should have taken a lot more time and made it much more thorough, but I never even considered it'd get this kind of traffic.
glad i found you. i have problems with a boat i am working on and it has ford tractor engines. I am at present trying to get the generators to work. I haven't got a clue, it has 2 alternators and engines and a bunch of different batteries. will sub and look out for your videos.
It's worked well for me for years. Some guys simply put a toggle switch in place of the diode or LED and momentarily switch it on and back off quickly to initiate alternator output.
Thanks Jim. I have installed this on many of my old tractors and it seems to do what its supposed to do. Though I would suggest additional research make sure you make the best choice for your application.
Yes, that is correct James. This was a quickly drawn diagram to help a Canadian buddy out with an issue with his 480 Case. Literally just a few minutes to draw for him. I had no idea it was going to be viewed by so many though and now its a bit embarrassing. LOL But I just did a lot of work to a '72 Ford 2000 and made a bit of a better but not complete diagram for it. Here it is if you'd like to take a look at it : ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is implementing it on the actual tractor: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
Good morning Tractorman44, another great way to use RUclips to help. I read everything listed sometimes 3 or 4 times to sink in to this think head!! You have a great day buddy.
@@tractorman4461 just the same as you buddy, to wet in the woods, but finally getting colder weather next few days coming up, so maybe get back there to pull some out.
Yeah Mark, the freezing weather is both a boon and a bane isn't it !! It allows you to get in because its frozen, but dang....its harder to work in all those blasted coveralls and gloves !! I managed to get some hauled in today...Its not rained for a couple days now.
An amp is a measurement of electrical consumption. The wattage of a component divided by the voltage it operates at will give you how many amps that component consumes. For example a 55 watt light operating at 12 volts dc will consume 4.58 amps. An alternator is rated in amperage output capacity. So if you consider the total wattages of all the components in your entire circuit, you can easily decide what the minimum output alternator should be required. The vast majority of old tractors will never approach the amperage consumption to surpass the smallest of alternators. Make sense ? Hope that helps.
I was reading the package wrong. In the old days when I learned to type the 'I' and the '1' were taught to be interchangeable. Of course that was on the old Underwood typewriters. You younster's will have to google it to see one. Hahahaha !!
How's she goin'? You did a great job explaining the alternator wiring. I like the LED idea too better than just the diode, which is a 1N1004. I'm not a fan of 'idiot' lights but in this case you just need an indication of charge or no charge and the LED is ideal for that!!! I also agree that there are many ways to wire something and they all will work in some fashion or another. Well done and thanks for sharing!!! Hey Joe hope this helps with your issues on the Case!!!
Thanks Mike for the comment sir. I wish I knew more about what really goes on inside those things. I have an old Crumbliss alternator testor and I cannot find any operating manuals on it. I can use it to tell WHEN the alternator putting out, but that's all I can really do with it. It has more potential if I could just find info. For now I guess all I need to know is what terminal 1 and 2 are responsible for..... lol. I'm sure Joe will video his resolution which should help us all.
Mike, Wendell, I am uploading the video. Problem solved, but not in the way it was expected. I let you see what in a few minutes when the video finish uploading... Mike, you had a snow plow issue a few days ago. Watch what happened to mine... Lol!
Awesome, thanks for watching. Btw, I am doing another version right now, if you'd like to see that diagram here it is here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
You made this video for the same reason I made the first one. It's a lot easier to point at something and say that's it, rather than to wave your arms around while you are on the phone or writing a letter. 😆
@Tractorman44. Thanks for this video! I'm about to do this on my 1958 Chevy Apache with a 235, and I was trying to figure out if I needed an inline resistor with the diode. Looks like I don't ;) Will give it a go! Thanks!
Sorry, I just found your comment. I haven't done this on vehicles, only on old tractors. What did you find out...did it work well for you or did you run into other issues..? I hope all is well.
@@tractorman4461 I did it the next day. I probably have 350 miles on it and probably 10ish idle hours. I used three 1N4007 diodes in parallel because I had lots of those on hand. No issues so far. Thanks a ton for the help.
Well Glen thank you and I hope it serves you as well as it has worked for me on a good number of conversions. I also use various LED's in place of the Radio Shack diode because when the key is turned on, the LED will light up then when you achieve the rpm required to initiate charging the higher voltage flows to the diode and it shuts off. Then you know the alternator output is exceeding the static voltage of the battery.
One thing about alternators is that most are 3 phase and the internal wiring is wired much like 3 phase industrial power where there are 3 complete circuits but they only use 3 wires.. There are also diodes inside the alternator. One for each phase. So if one diode is bad you will actually loose 2 phases. So the alternator may still charge but the output will be much lower. This could be why your alternator doesnt turn the light out at low rpm. Or like you say it could just be that the motor idles too slow but most cars idle around 500 rpm and they still charge at idle and most tractors dont idle much slower so that really shouldnt be a problem.
Sometimes in the enclosed sheet there will be information on the rpm required for output. If not a quick call to tech support can give it to you. That's the reason I like to use a voltmeter instead of an ammeter. As soon as voltage output initiates, the battery voltage will jump from 12.6 to 14.6 or so. Here is a much more comprehensive diagram in a series on a 1972 Ford 2000 that shows much better than this little haphazard diagram I drew for a buddy in Canada. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html If you go to the playlists up top, there will be one on the Ford if you'd like to see the whole dash pod change from start to finish.
Thanks James, I have installed this on many of my old tractors and it seems to do what its supposed to do. Though I would suggest additional research make sure you make the best choice for your application if you are in the process of installing the update to your tractor or hot rod. I am converting another 1951 or '52 Massey Harris and in that video I will show the O'Reilly Auto Parts number for a true one wire 12v alternator that requires nothing but the"Batt" connection to the + terminal. But it does have a minimum rpm to self excite. I appreciate the comment sir. Take care and be safe.
My lamp light indicates the number two position, wire has lamp on other wire. which has no voltage fed from switch. But number one has voltage , excite wire when ignition on that is
Sorry Ramiro, your comment went to the spam folder. Hopefully by now it is working fine in your application. I really just quickly knocked this together for a buddy's farm tractor not really intending it for automotive....hope all is well with your project.
Good day Sir . You did a good job on that one I think Joes alternator has other problems inside. I love that alternator Tractorman44 I wrote Joe with the way to wire it too I think I know whats really going here and you and I are not wrong in how we told him how to wire it. I really like the Led light set up thanks I will be doing that one. Before I put my foot in my mouth I'm going to look at his machine I will be back !
I found that the LED's must have different ratings because the last one I changed over would continue to very very lightly blip blip a little blink while the alternator is putting out correct voltage. The blink is so faint you have to shield it to see it in the sunlight. The LED is real bright when the key is turned on and then the alternator excites and works as planned and there is no drain on the battery. I just finished another one and used a true "One Wire" and used a voltmeter instead of an ammeter to see the output voltage after starting. You see the static battery voltage, you see the momentary drop during starter engagement then you see the output voltage after it self excites !! I've done these before and I like it a lot. Video coming on that one soon !!
@@tractorman4461 Thank You 1976 worked at a Gm dealer ship on the bench repairing cars every tec had to rebuild gen.alter. and in trade school electrical final we had to know that alter.along with Ford and Rams and there circuits and winding type. I never made the one wire job alt. I always used the two wires . I put GM alt. on other makes of cars no problem two wires . The one wire why is it because you only want low out put ? What I do know the wire for terminal 1 Gm said that this wire is to be 72 inches long 16 gage this wire goes to lamp to ignition. switch to 2 terminal. The lamp was a peanut bulb 194 or lower 191. 184. the194 works very bright. I use a side marker light with the peanut bulb any were on the machine there water proof. Gm internal regulator needs the proper resistance for the circuit so it knows what the battery needs. Alter. needs a battery to stabilize the charging system , a no good battery and that alter. will do some crazy things . they only put out the amps what is called for.. A bad tree diode can make the light go dim on and off low idle with alter. the right resistance once the light goes out it should stay out if not under 500 rpm light goes on . that's OK . If you have a small briggs points and condenser alter . works fine If magneto and points work fine. But the magnetos engines like Joe or a lawn movers some alter dont work grounded to the engine . and some work fine. the alter. not grounded to the engine works fine. Then in 1987 with one belt runs everything some alter. turned counter clock wise in stead of clock wise . The one wire system to me says your regulator is not going to last or work right. or boil the bat. Are you changing the regulator and then using one wire ? Moving along next to useing the alter out put lead to excite the regulator to terminal 2 the regulator receiving high amps . that lead is to go to bat. and the battery takes the amps then from battery to lights heater and the regulator reads the draw of lights and heater only gives what lights and heater needs telling the regulator to field the rotor till battery charges up. and regulator only gives what lights and heater needs the regulator wired joes way wont know what to think receiving high amps like that. I know it's a tractor its not going to the moon but the battery stabilizes the alt by terminal 1 and 2 terminals. I would have made more money if I had a crystal ball and could fix over the phone. Oh bad grounds on trailers with lights blow alter. When they surge in voltage they blow diodes and burn stators we had a meter to plug into the regulator to check it out of the alter. I always put a new regulator in rebuilt alternator . This is Like a letter to mom here. The rpm 1500 to 2000 8 inch drive pulley to 3 inch driven on alter. and 3 to4 HP his is any were from 32 amp. or 62 amp alter. saw Joe changed the pulley size too. He slowed it down too Tractorman 44 next time 25 words or less Take care be safe living the dream lol
@@wmurray9800 Hahahaha .... a letter to mom...that's classic. I love it ! LOL. As I understand it the true Delco 'one wire' does all the things the forerunners did with the evolution and majic of the technology internally of the alternator. It is desirable for old tractors and hot rods because of the simplicity of the wiring. There is only the one large 'Batt' terminal, its internally self regulating and self exciting at a specific rpm. There's no need for the wiring that used to be to terminals 1 and 2 and the 'Delco one wire' has a factory plug jammed in where 1 & 2 used to be. Now here's another twist....they can be fitted with a special 'low rpm' exciter to initiate output at the lower engine speeds that antique tractors are known to run. I had a source years ago, but it dried up when that little shop retired. I've noticed no problems with overcharging or boiling the batteries at all in the ones I've converted. The last one I put on a voltmeter instead of an ammeter like I've done in the past. I'm going to print your awesome and detailed comment and clip it into my alternator notes down in the shed. Hey Joe...another question. Do you remember the old Corliss (??) generator/alternator testors? I've got two but I can't find information on how exactly to work them. I can see the outputs in amps but I don't know exactly what the rest of the features do.
@@tractorman4461 Thank You for dusting off the cobwebs. The plug in one wire and no wire plug with a resister in plug . They were used in 4cylinder diesel engines for gen , pumps side wake snow removal equipment even in tractor trailer bigger Delco units its coming back now. and yes on the coreless tester worked for a company delco auto electric rebuilding starters generators distributors they let me once touch a magneto for air craft I was taught by mechanic that were in the second world war doing electrical work on air craft .these mechanics were very good but do not fool around they were all business. The machine coreless had different regulators than car batteries to alternators starters that were almost two feet long for heavy equiptment. distributor machine . But one old guy didn't like it for starter because we couldn't load the starter motors . The old guy did make a machine for loading starters later some of them had an attachment to calibrate speedos rebuilt speedomiters and distributor the one machine you could rebuild voltage regulators and you could build just regulators . Now you got the juices flowing and carburetors all delco even install the delco gen for 120 volt and 220 volt units service trucks man that was 1973 I started there I learned so much there. This test or is like hooking up Frank Stin lot s of wires I have and old delco book I will check it out . if you can get a model number off the machine possible year I will call a friend who has been doing this for over 42 years whats weird I was going down to talk to him about a 4500 inverter has120v and 220v pulled out of cable truck its time to get it working so perfect timing Tractorman44
Question? What happens if the battery gets fully charged and the alternator no longer is charging. Doesn't it need to be re-excited somehow when the battery needs a recharge???
That's the cool thing about the internal excited Delco, once excited, terminal #2 provides a feedback signal to tell the internal regulator what output is required. So it will modulate all the way down and back up as load changes during the time after which it was initially excited. It will start the process over once the engine is restarted after a shutdown and do the same thing over again. Cliff notes version, of course because I don't have all the technical descriptors at my disposal. I literally scratched this drawing down to lend a hand to an internet buddy and had no idea that many others would even see it. If you'd like a more complete tractor conversion diagram, including the voltmeter vs ammeter, take a few minutes to check this one out. It is specifically for a Ford 2000 conversion from oem electrical gauges to standard, more reasonably priced gauges available over the counter: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Its a done a little bit better.
@@tractorman4461 thanks for the reply. I hooking mine up to the start side of the switch. When I had it on the run side, I melted wires. But I didn't have a diode back then. Thanks again!
@@kirkmoore1202 Good luck with your endeavor but make sure there isn't something else wrong. A lot of guys will not use a diode or a dash light bulb, but just wire a toggle switch from the key to terminal # 1. Then after the tractor starts, just flip the switch on and off immediately to initiate excitation. Other guys just leave a short wire hang off the Batt terminal and after the tractor starts, they quickly touch the wire to terminal #1 and it does the same thing as the diode through the key switch or the toggle switch.
Good evening Sir, I just subscribe to your video because Joe informed myself of your chanel and i'm real Massey Harris Fan ( my father had a 30 and 22 ) i really miss the 30 but not the 22 since i had to crank up by hand !!! LOL Very good description and very well explained also ! I will start to look all you videos ! CHeers !
Thank you sir...I saw you the other night in the snow/ice chains on the Bolens video with Joe. I had a 22 with electric start I traded to my older brother for an Oliver 77. But I still have (4) 30's. I have my dad's old '41 101 Super, 101 Senior, 101 Junior, about (4) or (5) 44's and a pony. Crazy huh ? Thank you sir for subscribing and thank you for the great comment above. I think Joe is an awesome mechanic, fabricator and has an awesome channel.
@@tractorman4461 You are also one of the kind !!! Yes, Joe as the power of stopping the time and creating marvelous engineering marvels !!! Cheers ! and love all your tractors !!!
Well Dave, I don't get to spend as much time as I want in, around, on and under the tractors, but you know... life happens. Thanks for the kudos sir !!
Yes, that should be all that is required. #2 is a 'feedback' terminal that lets the internal regulator determine how much to increase or decrease output. That's a crude and probably not totally a factual description, but it does basically that.
So if you have a on/off switch, then a push button start can the button be used for the exciter? Or can the exciter wire come off the small post one the solenoid?
Actually a lot of guys will either leave a little jumper there connected on one end, then excite it manually after they start it...or install a momentary switch on the dash to do the same thing. Start the tractor then merely give the button a touch. That's all it takes. The 12v used to excite it can come from anywhere in the circuit if you are planning on doing it manually as you questioned. That's where a voltmeter is beneficial. You can instantly see the change in voltage output the instant it begins creating the increased voltage.
bota driver great !! Glad to have you looking around. Btw, I have a few Kubota’s and one is a B2400 I got from a buddy named Bert. The motor was very weak and needed a rebuild and about the same time I came across a FREE burnt BX2100. So I put the BX engine directly into the B2400 and as a result has been named the Burntabota. Though sometimes it’s referred to as the Bertabota too. Your name spurred that comment. Lolol.
LED stands for lighted electric display, In my own little world. They all work on a 2 volt difference from one end to the other. If you put one on the dash and it doesn't light with the key on, reverse the wires.
Yep....its like a check valve for electron flow. I touch them across the battery first to determine the way it needs to be hooked up....just to be sure before connection. Thanks Stanley for your input.
Yes, from the Batt terminal to the + side of the ammeter. One thing though....I just quickly made this up with very little thought put into it help out a Canadian buddy that was having an issue with an old tractors charging circuit. I had no idea it would become as popular as it has or I would've taken a LOT more time to go in to detail. Usually the ammeter will feed into the ignition switch on the way to the positive post of the battery and feed accessories after the switch is turned on. Usually I'll wire the lights to where they are not powered through the ignition switch. So this sketch was really a quick basic connection for an antique tractor. I gotta tell you though that there are a lot better and professionally done drawings out there in youtube land. Thanks Jerry for the comment.
Does the diode have some resistance? I am concerned that an inline diode of incorrect resistance will finally excite the alternator , but perhaps allow too much current. I'm trying to bypass a burnt out idiot light in a Cadillac. Don't have time to pull the dashboard off
I really have no suggestion for you on automotive. I don't work on anything but the old tractors whose wiring has been totally gutted and converted to the 12v alternator.
Question: I have a wire coming from ignition switch, off/on, to terminal #1. Terminal #2 has a short wire going to the battery post on the alternator along with the large wire going to amp gauge and then battery, pretty much the same way your diagram shows but just different routing. I can start the engine but it won’t shut off until I unplug the 1-2 terminal on the alternator. 1&2 terminals are hot while it’s running, I unplug it to stop engine and only the #2 post is hot then, like it should be, but something is keeping the #1, key switched wire hot until it’s unplugged? Is there something in the alternator causing this?
The reason for the diode in the wire from the ignition switch to terminal # 1 is to provide 12v to that terminal to excite the alternator but then shut power off to it after it starts. As soon as the alternator begins creating output at about 14.6v that is higher than the battery voltage of 12.6, because the diode is an electrical 'check valve', the diode or low wattage LED stops the flow to terminal # 1 so it is no longer receiving power through the switch. That should allow the tractor to shut off with the key. Now what some guys do is wire a small push button switch in that wire so after the tractor is started, they just push the button for a split second and turn it loose. That excites the alternator and the button allows no completed circuit to terminal #1, keeping the engine running even after the key is turned off. Now there could be something in yours that's different....I really do not know. But what I've shown seems to work on the good number of tractors I've done it on. This is a much better diagram and description I did on a '72 Ford 2000 three cylinder: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
@@tractorman4461 That makes sense . I converted the unit from external voltage regulator to internal regulator so it has no diodes at this time. Thanks
I don't know what will happen long term because terminal 1 is only supposed to have applied voltage in order to externally excite the alternator. I would think it is not good to keep it in the circuit permanently. The diode stops the flow backwards FROM the alternator once it begins producing output voltage. But you should probably research the subject further to make your decision more informed. This is what I do on old antique tractors and not on vehicles with comprehensive wiring circuits.
Sir I have unusual question wuld alternator still work if you for exampel tap in to those 3 phase winding before the bridge rectifier and use capacitor banks insted of baterry or bouth baterry/capacitor banks together I honestly dont care if it is ac/dc capacitors types. I was wondering how those old Ford Model T used ac magnetos and still baterry charged normali it didnt blow up or how not to get shocked from ac electricity from the capacitors I wuld use that to run only me ignition coil . I also acured unusual problem I experimented lit bitt with hv ceramic capacitors I put 1 end to positive ignition coil and the other end from hv capacitor directly to ground me starting charge gone up around 3000rpm insted the normal 1000rpm so that made me wonder can capacitors control alternatora when they will charge and on what rpm range? That happened to me many times in Europ they have those tractor alternators who have condensors on them if the condensor fails the alternator does not charge any more. And also some confusion they have be right or left puley turning alternator so can you please ask some profesional whats up with those alternators??? Mostly what I am after is alternator modification for old stationary engine conversions like Hot Bulb or Hit and Miss so I need modifi alternator to do that task so Im cinde of woried to get shocked be useing capacitoe banks . Im seriusly not shure what wuld happen to me hei e core ignition coil if I insulate that thing and use directly capacitor banks directly to the ignition coil + and ground be not tuching car chassys at all Im not shure if that wuld work . So Im looking at independent ignition system that can work with out baterry useing only alternator . It is small opel engine from the 80s tipical GM design ordinary 4 cilinder engine so I have some modifications to do on that engine . So bether to ask some one then regret it I supose
Well Elvin, you certainly posed some good questions but I'm not sure I'm capable of answering them as well as you require. I understand your desire to make a self contained power supply for the high tension coil, but personally I like the Ford low tension buzz coils and a small 12 volt battery out of a small motorcycle. It'd be the safest form of running an engine all day long and simplest to accomplish I think. As far as cutting into the alternator circuit to operate the stationary engine through capacitors....I have no idea how to do that safely or if it can even be done. To make it operate totally independent you would have to have an alternator that was totally self-exciting with no 12vdc input. And you would have to know the minimum rpm it needed to turn to begin the output. The problem I see is not being to regulate that output without it being connected to a battery. Its going to create so much more output than your one engine will need to fire the coil and the battery is (I think) how the output would be controlled....through feedback and the internal regulator of the alternator. But I am just guessing here. I'm not really the guy to be asking. I'm sincerely sorry that I can't be of more help to you on solving this dilemma, but I would love to hear what your solution is when it IS solved.
@@tractorman4461 Thank you for your time sir. I will post solution if you alove me to. Curently Im surching for solution to electricaly advance/retard the pick up coil or 4 pin GM ignition module when Im done with that project I will try out alternator next . Perhaps some one who works with Ford Model T culd give good advice or old army veteran who actualy worked on those old Starter/Generators . Those are old teaching methodes sadly no one teaches not even in schools any more. So realy depresing some times finding some info. But I did some experiments alredy and recorde it . Me engine conversions are mostly considered for low speed good fuel efficient engines . So probably peopel quesed hard to start high torque engine in cold morning. Personly I dont like those old GM regulators they have cool tehnology but sadly quality is terribel . So thank you any way If I see some positive results I will inform you.
About 8:20 on the other video I suggested to you a few minutes ago should address the question. Here it is again: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html When you turn on a three terminal ignition, the momentary portion goes to the starter solenoid (start) but the first terminal that receives the 12v signal (run) will energize the voltmeter as well as send 12v to the positive side of the LED, the other side of which goes on to the terminal #1 to excite the alternator. Once the alternator attains the proper rpm required to create output, the higher output voltage will then cause the LED to go out. At that point you know it is charging as well as by looking at the voltmeter. It will show battery 'static' voltage when you turn on the key. Should be 12.6 vdc. As soon as the alternator begins creating output, the diode should go out and the voltmeter should raise to about 14.6 vdc. Make sense Kirk ??
The only problem with the LED is that they use so little wattage that they can take a really long time to excite the alternator (as in hours or days and not seconds). The alternator will excite itself if the rpm's go high enough depending on the brand of alternator. If the LED goes out right after the rpm is "bumped up" it went out because the alternator excited itself at higher rpm's due to magnet memory in the windings and not due to the draw down load of the LED. It depends on the alternator at which rpms it will excite. If you want an alternator that excites without having to bump the rpms or if you have a high rpm exciting alternator, just use an idiot light that draws more wattage than an LED. In old 60's and 70's cars you will notice that the idiot light is a big clunky high wattage bulb. They used the higher wattage bulb because it would place a bleed down load on the alternator sufficient to cause it to excite at idle without higher rpms. Using an LED you are simply using it as an indicator that the RPMs have gone high enough to excite the alternator but the LED in and of itself is not enough of a load to excite the alternator without high rpms. Another note: Always use the 3 wire alternators. The one wire alternators use cheap Chinese junk diodes that fail. The one wire alternators are more expensive because someone had to convert them. You pay more for the one wire and the diodes burn out. The diodes are a one way check valve. When they burn out you will know it because the battery will bleed down and die when a bad diode is present.
Yes, all alternators have a specific minimum 'excitation' rpm and that varies from alternator to alternator. I understood that the three wire requires 12v dc input to terminal #1 in addition to attaining its particular rpm. This is a new one on me if I understood your comment to infer that it will excite anyway at the required rpm without the 12v feed through the diode. That's something of which I am not aware. In this case, the diode or LED is not being used as a draw down load to excite, it is just being used as an input voltage to cause excitation, then being an electrical check valve it shuts off when the higher created output voltage of the alternator tries to feed backwards. At that point the input to terminal #1 is terminated by the diode refusing backwards flow....and if its an LED, it will shut off. When an LED fails, the battery won't bleed down, the LED will no longer light up when the key is turned on. Thanks Honest Abe for the food for thought. I'm going to try an 1157 in a standard socket on the next one and I'm going to bench test a three wire without 12v input to terminal #1 just to see. But in the mean time, let me know if I actually understood that correctly in the first part of your reply. I appreciate the input. And like you prefer, I too prefer the three wire over the one wire.
@@tractorman4461 You may have to excite the alternator the very first time manually. After that it will retain a memory magnetism. You can always add the "idiot" light and then you do not have to worry about the rpms. However, if you use an idiot light, you have to have a bulb of a high enough wattage that it pulls a load. A typical LED bulb has such low wattage that it will take forever for it to put a load on the #1 terminal. I have a 53 WIllys and I use the two wire configuration without an idiot light. That alternator will excite at about 1200 rpm. Each alternator is different as to which RPM it will kick in. Once it kicks in, it remains charging even at 400 rpm. Just a start up I have to bump the throttle to get it going. However, even in your case with an LED, the LED is merely an indicator and not exciting the alternator. It does not allow enough wattage to pass through it. Your way of wiring is the most proper, however, you have to have a higher wattage bulb than an LED or its just an indicator and not an exciter.
Yes, when the ignition switch passes 12v to the coil, it should also send 12v to #1 on the alternator through the LED. The positive side of the LED is powered by that 12v signal so that when the static voltage (whats in the battery) becomes lower than the alternator output, the higher voltage returning to the LED from terminal 1 will cause it to go out. The higher voltage at that point is being fed in reverse flow to the LED and it, being a diode, will not allow it to pass. Check out this video, it is a little more comprehensive than this one here, then there are two more where this diagram is implemented and then checked out in a startup and checkout procedure. This one first: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one for the actual install: ruclips.net/video/QoynNQwiWds/видео.html then this one for the checkout and verification: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html Good luck Robert with your project and thanks for watching this one and commenting.
@@tractorman4461 thank you sir, very helpful. I'm starting a 383 stroker on an engine stand. Was trying to figure out how to wire up the alt outside of the vehicle
Several things come to mind. First, make sure it is a 12 volt LED. Diodes operate with a voltage differential across them. So one that's rated for 120 volts may act like you describe, though with only 12v or 17 volts being applied to either side it probably shouldn't even light up. Second, the LED wattage could be too high or too low. I have only one that doesn't completely shut off....it flickers continuously but the alternator continues to function fine, but I do need to change the LED. Third, if the alternator is giving out 17 volts or upwards, the first thought is that since the Delco 3 wire is internally regulated, the internal regulator is probably not doing its job. I've not experienced that particular problem with an alternator but I have with a three brush generator. That's where I would start. I just converted a Ford 2000 this week with the identical connections using an off the shelf 12v LED from O'Reillly's Auto and it works perfectly. Voltage output of the alternator should be 14.6 or 14.7 read with an accurate digital voltmeter. Good luck Max, and let us know what you find. Btw check this out if you'd like: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is the complete diagram minus the tractor lighting circuits that I used on the 2000.
@@maxr1401 No problem Max, I hope you get it working. But the 17 volt output has me a bit concerned. I hope we can figure that one out. O'Reillys has one that pops inot a 3/4'' standard hole that works perfectly.
No problem. A more complete tractor conversion is here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one shows how I use voltmeters instead of ammeters too.
Hey Tractorman44, Thanks for the explanation. Question: I have a Massey 245 Diesel and have a starter switch that is only used to start the engine. Nothing else is electrical. If I connected the excite wire to the start side of the switch, would it excite the alternator while cranking the engine? When I let the key go, the switch is off. I also have no working gauges.
I'm not totally sure that exciting it JUST during starting would do the trick. But a lot of guys wire 12v through a simple toggle switch on the dash, start the tractor then turn on the toggle switch for literally a split second and back off AFTER the engine and alternator get up to speed. See what has to happen in most alternators, is there is a 'minimum' rpm it needs to spin PLUS having 12v input on terminal #1 to initiate output. So energizing it only while the motor is in the process of ramping up on start up may not achieve the needed rpm for the alternator to put out. JT, take a few minutes and check out this diagram I just used on a 2000 Ford gasser: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html I think in that one I describe how adding a voltmeter gives you instant verification of voltage output from the alternator.
I would think so. But they are cheap enough to have a few sizes on hand. I've been using off the shelf LED's with good luck and I don't know the ratings on them at all. I do have a larger one that flickers instead of shutting off, so I think it must be rated too small. Radio Shack closed in my town around 20 years ago and I needed something different. If you have time, check out this one too: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
Yessir, good point Thomas. This was just a quick video sketched out for a tractor buddy. I had no idea it would become a popular video or I would have done a much more thorough job. Take a look at this one I made for a 1972 Ford 2000 three cylinder tractor: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one is easily adapted to most of the old tractors out there.
This simple diagram has a funny origin. A Canadian buddy was having trouble with the alternator on his Case 430 and I sketched this in literally 3 minutes (you can tell). I was trying to email it to him and couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just put it on RUclips and sent him the link. If I'd had any idea so many people would see it, I would have done a much better and more thorough job....similar to the one for the '72 Ford 2000. It certainly is NOT my best work....LOL Thanks Phillip for the comment !!
Hi Tractorman44, I can excite my alternator by touching pin 1 to 12v. However when I try with an LED from the key switch it doesn't tickle the alternator. The LED does illuminate. Any thoughts?
The LED is essentially a 'diode' that when connected with the + on the positive post and the - to the negative post, will emit light. If its polarity is reversed, as in + to - and - to +, it will not emit light and will not function to excite the termintal #1. The first thing I would do would be to ensure the polarity is correct. When correct, it will light up as soon as the key switch is turned to the 'on' position, and allow 12v to pass through it to excite the terminal #1. Once the alternator reaches the correct rpm, the out put voltage of 14.6 will try to feed back to the diode, but the diode then stops the flow of electron and shuts off the light. Take a few minutes and watch this more complete version of the diagram for a Ford 2000 tractor. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html There is a whole playlist up on my toolbar from start to finish showing the logic behind the checkout procedure too of the conversion. Good luck.
Thanks for the response. The LED will illuminate but never excites pin 1. I've watched both your videos several times. Maybe I'll just try the plain 1N4001 diode instead of the LED
@@cindyperry2319 LEDs are rated in wattage. I have had an over the counter one not work correctly as well. I just changed it to a different one and it then worked as it should. The bad thing is I don’t know what wattage to suggest. The one that wouldn’t work would flicker and not shut all the way off. I assumed it was too high of wattage. Some guys just use the jumper with a switch to flip the jumper on for a split second and back out.
That's my guess too. Something with the amperage or wattage on that LED. I'm going to get a 1N4001 diode. If that works I'll research a different LED. A toggle switch is always an option. 😉
@@cindyperry2319 one thing to think of too is every alternator has a minimum rpm to reach before excitation begins. Have you tried to increase the rpm’s when testing ? There is NO resistance to a jumper wire but there IS resistance to overcome with a diode feeding it. Marginal, but still it’s resistance. Just a thought fir you.
I'm horrible with electrical so much so I've bypassed the ignition to a Hotwire switch on all but one of my tractors lol I just can't get my head around the charging systems :( it makes me feel like a dummy lol
Don't be concerned about that at all....in all these years, I still have my issues with the three brush adjustable generators with cutouts and the two brush generators with the voltage regulators. I change most all of them to a simpler set up like this and sometimes use voltmeters instead of an ammeter. But they wire differently than this one here. Sorry, but your comment got stuck in the spam folder....I just found it along with around 80 others. Thanks for the comments !!
Great video I have a 49 ferguson te20 that somebody butchered the wiring and the alternator is one wire and don’t have the two prongs can I still hook up that little light
Well the true “one wire” alternator takes away the need for the light. The little LED or diode is needed on the other style with the two spade clips on the side to provide the voltage to terminal 1 when the key is turned on to “excite” the alternator to cause it to begin its output on the large (Batt) terminal. Being a diode it will pass voltage only one way then when output is established the LED should then go out. Though I do have a couple tractors that it flickers very slightly. The second terminal is the “feedback” terminal that gives the internal regulator the information it needs to regulate the output voltage. Your true “one wire” has no need for the LED, so some guys wire in a voltmeter to monitor the output voltage of the one wire alternator. I have had no bad issues, though you may do a little more research to see what others suggest.
Hello, does terminal 1an 2 need to be connected in order for a charge? Currently I have a battery wire to alt and is grounded. Alt is not charging. Thank you for your help.
hello MR how are you i hope im not bothering you but i have a question about this part i have my alternator with two wire on the top and he is berned can i replace it ,i have one another alternator with 3 wire on the top can i monting that with two wire is that OK my BMW X5 is with 2 wire can you answer me please i realy need some help in that part
I am not familiar with the alternator you are referring to with the 3 wire plug on top as you describe. So I wouldn't venture a guess as to what you should do. This video is only suggesting alternatives for converting antique tractors from 6v to 12v. Sorry sir.
I just drew this in haste with no real thought for a buddy who was having a problem with his tractor's Delco. So If I'd known it would be seen by so many, I would have drawn a much more precise drawing with notations. But you are right, just attach it to the Batt terminal. It literally took less than ten minutes to make and upload the video back then. Thanks fiddlerpin for the input.
That is correct. The #2 terminal is the voltage sensing terminal. It senses the voltage at the connection and the alternator adjusts the alternator voltage output to 14 volts in the case of a 12 volt alternator. The only time you really need a longer sensing connection is if you have a really long car. If you have an old cadillac boat and you have 12 volts at the battery but only 8 or 10 volts at the taillights you will have dim taillights. To solve this problem instead of jumping a wire between post #2 and "Batt" on the alternator, connect #2 to the taillight. Now the alternator will increase voltage until it senses 14 volts at the taillights and they will be much brighter. However on something like a tractor or an old willys jeep, voltage drop is negligible and you can jump directly between #2 and "Batt".
Well, on a three wire Delco, terminal #1 is the terminal that is responsible for 'exciting' the alternator. At a specific rpm, with voltage applied to terminal #1 when the key is on is what causes the alternator to create an output. But the applied voltage has to be removed after output begins, so that's the reason for the diode. A diode is a device that allows flow in only one direction, so when the rpm increases, the higher voltage flows backwards to the diode which then stops it from backfeeding in the circuit and the alternator keeps maintaining output higher than the applied battery static voltage. If you are using a light instead of a diode, that's what causes the light to go out. Remember the old cars that had dash lights? The red light would go out after the car started. Terminal #2 is kinda a 'monitoring' terminal that when connected to the battery positive (or the Batt terminal on the alternator) provides information to the internal regulator to allow it to determine the amount of output required to charge or maintain charge in the battery. Now technically that's probably not absolutely and totally correct, and there's a lot more theory, but this is basically what happens in the typical Delco three wire.
Yep it works now , after connecting it. I thought those wires were both for the inside gage. When you used the word “ excite” that rang a bell for me. Thanks so much ..
Actually that's pretty much how I connect them on the old tractors, jumping 2 to Batt. I drew this on the fly without giving any pre thought to the drawing and just drew the wire all the way back because I was in a hurry to post this in answer to a Canadian buddy's question on his particular tractor. If I was to redo the video I think the wording and content of the verbage would be slightly different. It was really just a quick video kind of just for him. I had no idea it would draw this much interest...or I WOULD have done a bit better. Thanks for watching and asking sir.
The #2 terminal is the voltage sensing terminal. It senses the voltage where ever you make the connection and the alternator adjusts the alternator voltage output until it senses14 volts at the connection point in the case of a 12 volt alternator. The only time you really need a longer sensing connection is if you have a really long car. If you have an old cadillac boat and you have 12 volts at the battery but only 8 or 10 volts at the taillights you will have dim taillights. To solve this problem instead of jumping a wire between post #2 and "Batt" on the alternator, connect #2 to the taillight. Now the alternator will "sense" the lower voltage at the appliance and increase voltage until it senses 14 volts at the taillights and they will be much brighter. This is also sometimes necessary when you have an engine mounted alternator and a battery in the trunk. If you have voltage drop between the alternator and the remote battery, you may need to connect #2 closer to the remote battery so that it receives a full 14 volt charge. However on something like a tractor or an old willys jeep, voltage drop is negligible and you can jump directly between #2 and "Batt".
Hey tractorman, my amp meter keeps going up in amps, rising to 30 amps, what can I do to fix this? Or is it fine? Do I need to run wire to resistor? Have an old 48 8N. Watched a few videos but went with LED light like you drawn up.
Well Thomas I can't really tell not being right there watching what's going on and looking at the load consumption. But I don't use ammeters at all any more because they are difficult to really tell what's happening in the circuit. I only use voltmeters in place of ammeters to see the actual battery voltage 'at rest' and the increased voltage the instant the alternator starts creating output. You'll see the volt meter change from 12.6 v to 14.6v the instant the alternator becomes excited and meets the minimum rpm to cause it to start. Terminal #2 is responsible for signalling back to the internal regulator just how much output is required to charge and maintain the correct battery voltage. If its not hooked up to the Batt terminal, the regulator can't regulate correctly. The second thing is how much load do you have...probably nothing to speak of...so the ammeter should be reading only slightly towards positive. It could be defective....but no way for me to tell. Btw, the voltmeter doesn't wire in like the ammeter...just FYI. Btw check out this sketch I just made for a much newer Ford: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
Thank you for a great and informative video. I just liked and subscribed. I have an old forklift with a delco 3 wire alternator and a detroit diesel that has been sitting for about 15 years. Just now got an injector and the rack unstuck. It started and sounds great but the alternator is not putting out. To clear up my head about the idiot light, does it have to be an led or diode? Can it be just an incandescent bulb? The reason I ask is, what was used before leds? I read somewhere that the excitor terminal is just a ground wire and when the alternator starts turning the ground is lost which is what stops the idiot light from illuminating. I really don't know but I want to learn and I'm planning to try and fix my problem soon so I wanted to ask your opinion. Thanks in advance and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
Well terminal #1 has to receive a 12v dc signal to initiate a charge. It isn't a ground. I like to use an LED because it only allows electricity to flow one way. As soon as the alternator hits the minimum rpm to allow excitation, the higher output voltage will try to go backwards, but can't so the LED shuts off and the alternator continues to provide out put. Terminal #2 provides input to the internal regulator to increase or decrease the output to maintain the correct charging rate to the battery without over charging it. Let me suggest this much newer and complete video I just made to convert a 1972 Ford 2000 with. I think you'll find it much more informative than this one. You'll see the advantage of changing from an ammeter to a voltmeter too !! At least that is my own opinion. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is one of three videos on my channel about this diagram. You'll even see something I overlooked in the last one.... Hope these help you. Btw, I have a 3-71 Detroit as well. Been sitting about 7 or 8 years now. It's going on a circle sawmill.
@@tractorman4461 Thanks for the update.Your videos are very helpful. You will love that Detroit and you may already know this..............be aware they are known for injectors/rack sticking after they sit for awhile causing runaway at start up. The problem is when a Detroit shuts down the rack goes to rest at wide open throttle. If an attempt to start with the rack stuck is successful it can immediately start running wide open with no way to reduce the throttle. The only way to stop it is to shut off the fuel or air supply. I would check to see if it has an emergency shut off and make sure it is in working order before attempting to start or better yet check the rack and injectors fiirst. Hope this is informative/helpful.
@@stevemeade6072 I knew there's an issue sometimes of them running away...but I'll make sure the rack is not stuck before I fire it up. But just in case, I'll be prepared to shut the fuel and air off to it too. Thanks for the tips.
Batista f Rose thank you for the comment. It was a hurried response to another you tubers questions concerning Delco alternators for old tractors. It’s worked fine for me on a lot of antique tractors.
That happens to all of us from time to time Phillip. I think I have forgotten much more than I've retained to be honest. Old mechanics are just as good as young ones....just a little slower moving. I'm rapidly approaching that myself....heck I MIGHT already be there !! Thanks for the comment. Please do so anytime, my friend.
I did this "almost" very thing decades ago with a silicon diode instead of LED. One mistake you made, is hooking the load "the key" feed to the battery. All loads except the main starter cable belong on the alternator side of the ammeter. This makes it "balance" correctly to zero. Terminal 2 should NOT cause a drain, but who knows with modern China parts?
When I drew this up, it was just to help a buddy in Canada figure out what was wrong with his charging system. There was no forthought and took just a few minutes. Had I known others were going to be so interested in it, I would have taken the time to draw it entirely differently. Most of the time I don't use an ammeter, just a voltmeter because most all my tractors are retired except for light duty use and have no external loads except the ignition. You are right about the questionable Chinese parts too. But here is one I drew for a '72 Ford 2000 conversion: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it for sure. Its amazing what I learn from viewers.
I have a much better more comprehensive video of this basic circuit: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html and here it is checked out and in operation: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
@@tractorman4461 in the end will the combination of the power from the alternator,in my Case 12V-90A be 48V and 22,5A and my Bike Battery with 48V and 13,5A What? 48V and 36A,near my 48V-13,5A Bike Battery never goes down because,it is like charging my Bikebattery with 48V and 22,5A,right? not all know at the normal Charger give me only 2-3-4 or 5 A if i Charge,but i go right on the Outlet and push 22,5A in,so i dont need in normal my Bike Battery and can also drive ONLY with the Power from the Alternator. all i do is steal the power from the Carbattery,chage this to 48V and 22,5A and can drive for EVER,solong no Part breaks down.
@@Chefchen21 Well, it sounds like you have a very good solution. I hope it all works as good as your theory. A lot of people use a self exciting one wire Delco to provide power for welding though I have never tried it. Good luck !!
It's been so long since I used it, I really don't remember. I've been using off the shelf LED's from O'Reillys as a substitute instead. They give me power indication, they go off as soon as the higher output voltage from the alternator is seen in the circuit. Thanks Mike for the input.
That is a 1N4001 it's a 1a 50v rating. Use a 1N4007 instead it has a 1a 1000v rating and is very common also, Then spiks won't blow the 50v rating of the other one. Misprint on his package.
I can see that as a problem because #1 is the terminal that needs to be tickled with battery voltage when the key is turned on to initiate alternator output as soon as it’s rotating the minimum speed. Thanks fir the added input. It is appreciated.
@@tractorman4461 I appreciate your thinking,..a lot of folks wouldn't take the time to pronounce a word or name correctly. I have subscribed to your channel, because Joe suggested it and thought you'd have some interesting content. Now I'll see and hear, for myself. Cheers!
Thank you sir. I'm hoping to not disappoint you. I don't have a particular theme like only tractors, or only chainsaws, or only sawmills. It's pretty much a hodge podge of things I like to do or have to do to live the way I want to live. Thank you again for subbing and for taking the time to watch and comment. I appreciate it.
I've substituted the diode for a 12v LED from O Reillys for the last dozen or so conversions. It does the same thing as the diode. The cool thing is you know the alternator is putting out as soon as the diode goes out.
This was just a sketch for a Canadian buddy to help him with a problem. This one is much more comprehensive and a bit longer: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is for a 1972 Ford 2000 but can easily be adapted to many other tractors.
Many thanks Tractorman44! I am very impressed you did that video in such a short time, just for me! I'll give it a try as soon as I can get the Case inside the garage. Be sure I'll make a video of it! Thanks again!
P.S. I always read the video description!
You might be interested to take a look at a video I did last summer (link below). You will see what I meant. Good thing is the new "idiot" light I installed (yellow) is a LED light! I wired this light so it indicates the ignition switch is ON (to avoid accidental burning of the points). So I think the rewiring modification will be very easy. I'll take time to run another wire from terminal 2 (voltage sensing, I guess) back to the ignition switch. Then with your diagram, when the engine will not be running, this LED will still be ON for my initial purpose.
ruclips.net/video/scJ1lDJ1K9o/видео.html
Good morning Joe, do you have another project going on in the garage, is that the reason you can't get the Case in? Lol
No problem Joe. Like I say there are many variations to accomplish the same thing. About the description...I really was going to just make this a private one and figure out how to get it to you, but I quickly scrapped that video and reworded some stuff for the tractor-trolls (lol) in this one and made it public. I surely hope it will be of assistance.
On one tractor, I just jumped terminal 2 to terminal 1 and its worked for 20 years. But I think 2 is intended to be powered directly from the battery + because like you said, its the voltage sensing terminal that probably tells the internal regulator what to do and just jumping it to #1 isn't true battery (or system operating) voltage, its just reading generated output voltage after the alternator is excited. Someone may provide actual info for us instead of my speculation.
Oh, and thanks for reading the descriptions. I do religiously read them on every video because sometimes there is critical information there. A lot of people don't read them which is why sometimes I put some 'tongue-in-cheek' comments in them. lolol. Sick American humor I guess..... I'll go look at your video from last summer now. I kinda wished I'd seen it first though...lolol too late now.
Joe I went and watched your video. At 19:30 there's almost a perfect shot of the plastic plug covering terminal 1&2 opening. Is that a field installed plug or is that an actual factory plug that was in the alternator when you bought it. It's my understanding that if that plug is in there from the factory, it is in fact a true 'one wire' alternator. If that's the case, my video's solution won't help you. I also noticed you crossed the 'batt' to the ground pin to initiate charging which is a different experience than I've seen. So for the moment I am a bit confused..... But that's an easy thing for me....lolol
Mark, I can't hide anything from you! One project is ending and the paint is drying! Then this afternoon, I start another with Dave (RCAFpolarexpress). But this morning is not too cold (±30°F) and I will give it a try if possible!
This diode fix also worked with my series 2a Land Rover. Dynamo to Alternator conversion with regular bulb in the dash. Engine wouldn't shut off with key. Fixed now. Thanks!
Awesome !! I'm glad to hear that. I don't really get heavy into the automotive end. This is primarily for antique tractors but if it works, it works.
@@tractorman4461 The Land Rover is basically an antique tractor on the inside.
@@choda42 That's good. I like a simply designed vehicle AND tractor. I am glad this helped you with your issue !! Have a great day...
This is the best explanation that I have seen so far on the web.
Thanks for the comment. It was just to be a quick vid for a buddys tractor or I would have put more thought into it. Hope it helped you in some small way.
Thanks, good tips. My ford 655c has had no output for year. Soon as I flashed it with a hot lead, went from 12 to 14.5v. finally found the exciter wire off the ignition switch. then, found the battery sensor with cut wires and fixed that. this unit apparently wont charge with out at least 200 ohms of resistance on that outer terminal that goes into the regulator on the alternator.
Well its good to get them working again. I've got a Denso one wire not working right now...but its only a loose belt that I've not given attention to yet. These old tractors aren't nearly as complicated as just about any automotive system. I converted my 4500 Ford years ago just to get away from the problematic Lucas electrical system.
No nay sayer here, just an old Gmaw that loves to learn something new every day. Your description box info is awesome. Tractor Troll be darned in my opinion and probably don't even take time to read a description box. If they'd take time to listen to understand instead of listening to reply they might learn something beneficial. All my best to your Mrs. Hope y'all have a good day!
As always, a pleasant reply from a pleasant lady. Thank you ma'am for commenting on the description box. I try not to overdo it, but the box is there for a reason and providing that description just may eliminate a question or two that may arise somewhere in the video. Plus I don't mind attempting to be 'funny' in there too..... Well, maybe to troll the trolls with a pre-emptive strike too, so to speak. lololol
All our best to you and yours from Mary and myself as well, and thank you for the well wishes ma'am.
Thanks, I just did this conversion. I thought terminal one just provided a ground for the dummy light and left it unhooked. Needless to say things were not charging. Just ran a quick test and it's working now. I'll create a permanent circuit in the morning. Thanks again!
I'm sure there are variations, but at least this one works for me. Terminal 1 is actually the terminal that excites the alternator, but on old low rpm tractors sometimes you have to elevate the rpms to get to the exciter to do its job. We sometimes, if available, solve that by utilizing a smaller pully. A hot rod car engine should have no issue at all. Terminal 2 just provides input to the internal workings of the alternator concerning the actual battery voltage to allow it to self adjust its output to charge and maintain the battery. Cliff notes version, but it works. Sometimes I use a red LED in place of the standard diode. It acts like the old 'idiot' light on the car dash. It comes on as soon as the key is switched on, then shuts off as soon as the alternator begins output. Sometimes they flicker real dim, but I've suffered no damage to my systems yet.
@@tractorman4461 I installed a GM 3 wire on a JD 2030. To try your circuit I hooked the test light clamp to positive and touched the probe to pin 1. The light lit, I upped the rpm and the test light went out. The voltmeter said 13.8. At idle the alternator continues to charge after initialization. I don't know why this information isn't more available. Glad you shared your knowledge!
Alan Bloodworth well I am glad this solved your issue and your test procedure was perfect. I don’t have anything as new as your JD, as my tractors are 30’s 40’s and 50’s. The Delco “one wire” internally regulated and self exciting regulator is the favored choice for most old tractor and hot rod enthusiasts, as it requires nothing but one wire to the + terminal of the battery. Thanks for your comments sir and please have a nice day and stay warm wherever you are.
Good evening T44! That was really helpful and one to keep in my files for later. Well explained and makes a lot of sense. Man, Radio Shack was my absolute favourite store when I was a kid. We had one in our local little plaza in town and when my mom would take us shopping, I would hang out in the Radio Shack store while she was doing groceries. I got my very first Multimeter build kit from there when I was young. So excited to get home and solder all the components together and watch it work. Sad to say we don't have them here anymore- probably for a good 30 years now. Thanks for the instructional. Love your videos. And thanks for the walk down memory lane. LOL. Cheers!
GP Outdoors oh man this is hilarious !! I’m here answering a couple new comments and find your comment from a whole year ago sitting here unanswered !! LOL ! We didn’t have a Radio Shack but in the back of Dad’s ‘True Detective’ magazines were the ads for build it yourself electronics. So I built my first crystal radio and galvanometer and other things from the kits. I just remembered the name....Heathkits. Good memories GP, of a much simpler time in our lives... sorry for missing your comment. Take care sir and have a safe week !!
this is exactly what i was looking for to connect my 1 wire alternator for my 1952 Willys CJ3A. It had generator but previous person did a half hearted job converting to 12V system with the bad alternator still mounted. anyway i cut the chase. I order the two wire plug (with red and white wire) that goes into the alternator that has with embedded diode. It was good to know the purpose of the diode is to allow the volt only travel one way out and it prevent from going back to the alternator, otherwise it will fry the battery when alternator keeps charging the battery beyond the capacity. Thank you for the great video and information provided. Bob
I didn't realize this video was going to be popular or there would have been much more detail. This was just a quick way to get this to a friend in Canada that was having trouble with his Case tractor with a Delco system. I hope you solved your issue and thank you for watching and commenting.
I believe you've just explained that so well that I now have the confidence to tackle an issue I have with my marinised kubota engine. Brilliant video sir. Many thanks for posting it. It was exactly the information I was looking for.
This was just a quick non-planned video I did for a Canadian friend to trouble shoot his tractor. I had no idea it would become this well viewed or I would have taken my time with it. BUT...if you have the time, take a quick look at this video where I drew a diagram for a 1972 Ford 2000. It MIGHT be a little better presented here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
What a clear and calming presentation !! Thanks a bunch ! - another Canadian
Thank you for a great early morning comment !! I just did this real quick for my buddy up North with no prior preparation given to thought. I would've presented it a bit different had I taken the time to think it all out. The ammeter will work in the circuit this way, but really should be downstream of the key reading all the juice consumed after starting and not all the juice put out by the alternator like it would in series with the Batt terminal. This was specifically for old antique tractors where there is little need for much output which is why it will work like this, but not in a vehicle that has a continuous heavy electrical load. The ammeter won't last in that situation and heavy output could possibly peg the meter pretty easily. Thank you again for the kind comment. Have a wonderful week and good luck with your project.
Love you and your disposition .
Freedom
Hahaha....well, that's good to hear James. Hey, this basic drawing was just to help a Canadian friend out with a charging issue and I had no idea so many others would be interested in it. Here is a much more detailed drawing I made recently on a 1972 Ford 2000 tractor. You may find it interesting as well. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Thank you for the kind comment and I hope you enjoy this one as well. Actually there is a playlist up top that includes the whole conversion if you are interested.
Great video on wiring my alternator up! Very simply and well explained!
Well Donald M. I am glad it helped. I only did this on a whim for a buddy that was having trouble with his Delco on an old tractor. Literally in minutes. If I'd have known it was going to be looked at by more than just a few people I would have taken the time to make it much better. Like the ammeter really shouldn't go directly in line with the 'Batt' wire because ALL the generated amperage will flow through the guage. It'll work in most cases of old tractors though, because there really isn't much of a load. But it really should be off the ignition circuit. Thanks for the comment and I hope you have continued luck. I do have a couple other videos converting old tractors to one wire alternators like this one:ruclips.net/video/kOTA9EfhEos/видео.html and I am uploading another one yet this evening. These new ones utilize voltmeters instead of ammeters.
Thanks for a reminder, seems it’s hard to keep track of what all I’ve done over 65 years
Yes I connected it to the ing switch 😊
This was a quick video to help out a buddy in Canada. I didn't know it would be viewed by so many or I'd have made a much better one. Here's one for a Ford 2000 that's a little more comprehensive: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html and here is the whole playlist, start to finish on the 2000 Ford: ruclips.net/p/PLk72G9DTzZ1uBYT70un1MnWxpiZ8f017c
Thanks for the common sense approach. You helped me go racing!
Herman Schmidt hope you won your bracket !! And of course I hope your car is still charging. This is the way I do it on antique tractors and but never installed it in a more sophisticated electrical circuit.
Fantastic. I have MF 135 diesel and have been trying to make this work for years. You gave a very clear explanation of it all and I am about to give it a go. All the options on wiring and low rpm exciter where helpful as well.
Great Michael Good luck with your project. Check out this more complete set up I did recently for a 1972 Ford 2000 gas tractor: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Plus there's two videos of installing all of it and starting and checking it out one step at a time. If you check my playlist up above, I think it says something about 2000 Fords in the title.
Great info! I’m planning to make a remote controlled push mower and had seen other videos where people put a GM alternator to keep the battery charged (since the wheelchair motors drive the mower) now I understand how to wire it up. Thanks!!
Amazon has a one wire self exciting one for less than $50 that only needs one wire similar to the Delco. The good thing about this one is its about a 60 amp output, is only 4 1/2'' in diameter and weighs about 4 pounds. Good luck with your project !!
Ah! Thanks for the tip!!
Thank you for the video. I have a 1971 Allis Chalmers that wasn’t charging. Purchased 2 one wire alternators and both wouldn’t charge. Definitely trying this out.
Remember that the self exciting alternators have varying minimum rpm requirements to begin voltage output. I have one that has to hit over 1500 rpm before it creates output, but another one that begins almost immediately after starting. Most automotive alternators used on tractor engines require that the engine rev up to get to that rpm, and will not necessarily begin putting out at an idle though.
The one wire alternators purchased from tractor supply houses like Steiner Tractor or Yesterdays Tractors are fitted with special 'low rpm exciters' that allow them to create voltage at the much slower idle to mid range rpm rates of the tractors.
Another point...this video was really intended for a buddy that was having a problem so it was slammed together with little prep work. Consequently, the ammeter really should be downstream from the key to show consumption of the electrical circuits and not the TOTAL load placed on the alternator. It should work like this on the old tractors that really have little load, but downstream of the key, reflecting lighting use, solonoid use etc would be a better choice I believe. Good luck with the old Allis sir.
great video! Joe is a wonderful man! your a good friend to share this so quickly.
Good morning Dave and yes, Joe is definitely a remarkable man and fabricator. We are all benefiting from his videos in one way or another. Thank you for the compliment and thank you for taking the time to watch sir.
You Vintagers make an excellent teachers with just a paper and pen....!? Awesome.... Tractorman44. Great Video.
Thanks man....I didn't take much time to really think it all through....a buddy in Canada was having an issue with his tractor so I knocked this out and posted it because I didn't know how to send it to him privately. If I'd have known it was to be looked at by so many, I would have done a much better job at it... Thanks for the complimentary comment !!
Number 2 wire can go to battery terminal on the alternator. Been working fine for 20+ years.
Yes you are correct. This was just a simple drawing meant for a buddy who was having a problem with his tractor. The easiest way to get it to him was putting it on youtube. Had I known there was so much interest, I would have made a much different and more precise drawing. This took literally 5 or 6 minutes to sketch out....but if you look at #2 it does connect to the same terminal like you said...the Batt terminal. It just goes across the page to connect to it. Thanks Dan for the input. We ARE in agreement.
@Dan Knight This (as you prove) will work, but someone having trouble with charging voltage at the battery should move the line to the battery's terminal.
Tractorman, love the knowledgeable information. I too learned from you and Joe. I don't have an older tractor but I surely enjoyed the conversation between you and Joe. Great stuff (we learn from this). This is what I think good sharing of brain waves is all about (smile). Thanks for viewing my channel and you're among a good group of helpful and considerate folks on RUclips. You don't have to be a tractor person though I sure do like your call-sign (smile). Have a good day and look forward to viewing more of your channel. You have some nice videos. 👍.
Thank you sir, for the very pleasant comment. Like I told Dave over at DaveKnowsHow..people that enjoy tractors new or old kinda have a subtle connection among themselves...and with that connection usually comes a degree of respect. I saw the delivery video of your new tractor and bush hog btw. Man, must be nice..... Seriously though, thank you again for the kind words above, and I hope to see you around ever so often... what's that they say about birds of a feather..?? lol
Good info! I converted my Ferguson 30 several years ago and I think I have a 1 wire only, but the tractor has to be revved up before the amp gauge shows a charge, maybe if I added the LED I wouldn't have to rev it up.
Good evening sir !! Yours is probably a standard Delco which requires a bit of a higher rpm to initiate a charge. But it could really be charging from the time it starts, but the resolution on the ammeter isn't great enough to record that slight output but does show it as the output just gets a little higher with the increased rpm. Which is why a lot of guys install a voltmeter instead of an ammeter. The volt meter WILL show the slight increase in output voltage when maybe the ammeter isn't quite capable of showing a slight increase in amperage. Oops, that's kind of a repeated answer, just saying it a little differently.
If its a true one wire, it shouldn't have a terminal 1 or 2 available. And usually a three wire won't excite at all automatically without initial voltage applied to terminal 1 regardless of rpm. Terminal 2 just reads (senses) the voltage (as I understand it) to tell the internal regulator to increase or decrease output. Someone may correct me on that if its correct.
Thanks for taking a look...I don't know much, but you are welcome to it anytime sir !! Thank you also for the comment.
@@tractorman4461Thanks, I did it so long ago ,its probably a 1 wire , I have not regretted it one bit! I remember brush hogging when it was 6v , if I would accidentally kill the motor , might as well walk back and take a nap because it wasn't starting again for a while!
Another great video, you do a good job explaining things
Thanks James...this video was literally just a quick note I'd made for a Canadian buddy to help troubleshoot his tractor and I thought this was the easiest way to get it to him....I should have taken a lot more time and made it much more thorough, but I never even considered it'd get this kind of traffic.
glad i found you. i have problems with a boat i am working on and it has ford tractor engines. I am at present trying to get the generators to work. I haven't got a clue, it has 2 alternators and engines and a bunch of different batteries. will sub and look out for your videos.
Well I'm not much on boats....but I hope you find some input that gives you a little help. Thank you for joining into the mix.
Thanks tractor man that solved my problem thanks.
It's worked well for me for years. Some guys simply put a toggle switch in place of the diode or LED and momentarily switch it on and back off quickly to initiate alternator output.
Excellently explained.. simple and easily understood
Thanks Jim. I have installed this on many of my old tractors and it seems to do what its supposed to do. Though I would suggest additional research make sure you make the best choice for your application.
Great video.. you can run a 6" wire from #2 directly to the + post on the alt.
Yes, that is correct James. This was a quickly drawn diagram to help a Canadian buddy out with an issue with his 480 Case. Literally just a few minutes to draw for him. I had no idea it was going to be viewed by so many though and now its a bit embarrassing. LOL But I just did a lot of work to a '72 Ford 2000 and made a bit of a better but not complete diagram for it. Here it is if you'd like to take a look at it : ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is implementing it on the actual tractor: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
Good morning Tractorman44, another great way to use RUclips to help. I read everything listed sometimes 3 or 4 times to sink in to this think head!! You have a great day buddy.
Good morning sir. How's the woodcutting for the New Year ?? It's been too wet to get out there for me. But I've been stacking inside the shed though.
@@tractorman4461 just the same as you buddy, to wet in the woods, but finally getting colder weather next few days coming up, so maybe get back there to pull some out.
Yeah Mark, the freezing weather is both a boon and a bane isn't it !! It allows you to get in because its frozen, but dang....its harder to work in all those blasted coveralls and gloves !! I managed to get some hauled in today...Its not rained for a couple days now.
Very helpful for me and my little Kubota.
Hopefully Dan you are up and running again. Wait....did you say Kubota ??!! They aren't supposed to break down. LOL
Good explanation. I saw Joe's video and followed his link over to you.
Great !! Joe knows some stuff I tell you. I hope you look around a while and find something you like.
what is AMP ? sorry asking it . I am trying to learn about alternators
An amp is a measurement of electrical consumption. The wattage of a component divided by the voltage it operates at will give you how many amps that component consumes. For example a 55 watt light operating at 12 volts dc will consume 4.58 amps. An alternator is rated in amperage output capacity. So if you consider the total wattages of all the components in your entire circuit, you can easily decide what the minimum output alternator should be required. The vast majority of old tractors will never approach the amperage consumption to surpass the smallest of alternators. Make sense ? Hope that helps.
Great info. Diode is a 1N
I was reading the package wrong. In the old days when I learned to type the 'I' and the '1' were taught to be interchangeable. Of course that was on the old Underwood typewriters. You younster's will have to google it to see one. Hahahaha !!
How's she goin'? You did a great job explaining the alternator wiring. I like the LED idea too better than just the diode, which is a 1N1004. I'm not a fan of 'idiot' lights but in this case you just need an indication of charge or no charge and the LED is ideal for that!!! I also agree that there are many ways to wire something and they all will work in some fashion or another. Well done and thanks for sharing!!! Hey Joe hope this helps with your issues on the Case!!!
Thanks Mike for the comment sir. I wish I knew more about what really goes on inside those things. I have an old Crumbliss alternator testor and I cannot find any operating manuals on it. I can use it to tell WHEN the alternator putting out, but that's all I can really do with it. It has more potential if I could just find info. For now I guess all I need to know is what terminal 1 and 2 are responsible for..... lol. I'm sure Joe will video his resolution which should help us all.
I bet he will and it will!!!
Mike, Wendell, I am uploading the video. Problem solved, but not in the way it was expected. I let you see what in a few minutes when the video finish uploading... Mike, you had a snow plow issue a few days ago. Watch what happened to mine... Lol!
thank you great video
Awesome, thanks for watching. Btw, I am doing another version right now, if you'd like to see that diagram here it is here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
You made this video for the same reason I made the first one. It's a lot easier to point at something and say that's it, rather than to wave your arms around while you are on the phone or writing a letter. 😆
Yessir, that's true. I've been that route many times too !! lol
@Tractorman44. Thanks for this video! I'm about to do this on my 1958 Chevy Apache with a 235, and I was trying to figure out if I needed an inline resistor with the diode. Looks like I don't ;) Will give it a go! Thanks!
Sorry, I just found your comment. I haven't done this on vehicles, only on old tractors. What did you find out...did it work well for you or did you run into other issues..? I hope all is well.
@@tractorman4461 I did it the next day. I probably have 350 miles on it and probably 10ish idle hours. I used three 1N4007 diodes in parallel because I had lots of those on hand. No issues so far. Thanks a ton for the help.
@@PartScavenger Awesome !! Thanks for the input.
Found exactly what I needed to know. Great information. Thanks!
Well Glen thank you and I hope it serves you as well as it has worked for me on a good number of conversions. I also use various LED's in place of the Radio Shack diode because when the key is turned on, the LED will light up then when you achieve the rpm required to initiate charging the higher voltage flows to the diode and it shuts off. Then you know the alternator output is exceeding the static voltage of the battery.
One thing about alternators is that most are 3 phase and the internal wiring is wired much like 3 phase industrial power where there are 3 complete circuits but they only use 3 wires.. There are also diodes inside the alternator. One for each phase. So if one diode is bad you will actually loose 2 phases. So the alternator may still charge but the output will be much lower. This could be why your alternator doesnt turn the light out at low rpm. Or like you say it could just be that the motor idles too slow but most cars idle around 500 rpm and they still charge at idle and most tractors dont idle much slower so that really shouldnt be a problem.
Sometimes in the enclosed sheet there will be information on the rpm required for output. If not a quick call to tech support can give it to you. That's the reason I like to use a voltmeter instead of an ammeter. As soon as voltage output initiates, the battery voltage will jump from 12.6 to 14.6 or so. Here is a much more comprehensive diagram in a series on a 1972 Ford 2000 that shows much better than this little haphazard diagram I drew for a buddy in Canada. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html If you go to the playlists up top, there will be one on the Ford if you'd like to see the whole dash pod change from start to finish.
great Vid Thanks. From another Canadian.
Thanks James, I have installed this on many of my old tractors and it seems to do what its supposed to do. Though I would suggest additional research make sure you make the best choice for your application if you are in the process of installing the update to your tractor or hot rod. I am converting another 1951 or '52 Massey Harris and in that video I will show the O'Reilly Auto Parts number for a true one wire 12v alternator that requires nothing but the"Batt" connection to the + terminal. But it does have a minimum rpm to self excite. I appreciate the comment sir. Take care and be safe.
My lamp light indicates the number two position, wire has lamp on other wire. which has no voltage fed from switch. But number one has voltage , excite wire when ignition on that is
Subscribed due to quality info
Thank you for watching AND for the compliment ! I missed notification of your reply.
Thank you I'm wiring my old Willy's jeep with your diagram.
Sorry Ramiro, your comment went to the spam folder. Hopefully by now it is working fine in your application. I really just quickly knocked this together for a buddy's farm tractor not really intending it for automotive....hope all is well with your project.
Good day Sir . You did a good job on that one I think Joes alternator has other problems inside. I love that alternator Tractorman44 I wrote Joe with the way to wire it too I think I know whats really going here and you and I are not wrong in how we told him how to wire it. I really like the Led light set up thanks I will be doing that one. Before I put my foot in my mouth I'm going to look at his machine I will be back !
Good I went to look I thought he had rotation wrong but its right. take care be safe . regulator or something burnt
I found that the LED's must have different ratings because the last one I changed over would continue to very very lightly blip blip a little blink while the alternator is putting out correct voltage. The blink is so faint you have to shield it to see it in the sunlight. The LED is real bright when the key is turned on and then the alternator excites and works as planned and there is no drain on the battery. I just finished another one and used a true "One Wire" and used a voltmeter instead of an ammeter to see the output voltage after starting. You see the static battery voltage, you see the momentary drop during starter engagement then you see the output voltage after it self excites !! I've done these before and I like it a lot. Video coming on that one soon !!
@@tractorman4461 Thank You 1976 worked at a Gm dealer ship on the bench repairing cars every tec had to rebuild gen.alter. and in trade school electrical final we had to know that alter.along with Ford and Rams and there circuits and winding type. I never made the one wire job alt. I always used the two wires . I put GM alt. on other makes of cars no problem two wires . The one wire why is it because you only want low out put ? What I do know the wire for terminal 1 Gm said that this wire is to be 72 inches long 16 gage this wire goes to lamp to ignition. switch to 2 terminal. The lamp was a peanut bulb 194 or lower 191. 184. the194 works very bright. I use a side marker light with the peanut bulb any were on the machine there water proof. Gm internal regulator needs the proper resistance for the circuit so it knows what the battery needs. Alter. needs a battery to stabilize the charging system , a no good battery and that alter. will do some crazy things . they only put out the amps what is called for.. A bad tree diode can make the light go dim on and off low idle with alter. the right resistance once the light goes out it should stay out if not under 500 rpm light goes on . that's OK . If you have a small briggs points and condenser alter . works fine If magneto and points work fine. But the magnetos engines like Joe or a lawn movers some alter dont work grounded to the engine . and some work fine. the alter. not grounded to the engine works fine. Then in 1987 with one belt runs everything some alter. turned counter clock wise in stead of clock wise . The one wire system to me says your regulator is not going to last or work right. or boil the bat. Are you changing the regulator and then using one wire ? Moving along next to useing the alter out put lead to excite the regulator to terminal 2 the regulator receiving high amps . that lead is to go to bat. and the battery takes the amps then from battery to lights heater and the regulator reads the draw of lights and heater only gives what lights and heater needs telling the regulator to field the rotor till battery charges up. and regulator only gives what lights and heater needs the regulator wired joes way wont know what to think receiving high amps like that. I know it's a tractor its not going to the moon but the battery stabilizes the alt by terminal 1 and 2 terminals. I would have made more money if I had a crystal ball and could fix over the phone. Oh bad grounds on trailers with lights blow alter. When they surge in voltage they blow diodes and burn stators we had a meter to plug into the regulator to check it out of the alter. I always put a new regulator in rebuilt alternator . This is Like a letter to mom here. The rpm 1500 to 2000 8 inch drive pulley to 3 inch driven on alter. and 3 to4 HP his is any were from 32 amp. or 62 amp alter. saw Joe changed the pulley size too. He slowed it down too Tractorman 44 next time 25 words or less Take care be safe living the dream lol
@@wmurray9800 Hahahaha .... a letter to mom...that's classic. I love it ! LOL. As I understand it the true Delco 'one wire' does all the things the forerunners did with the evolution and majic of the technology internally of the alternator. It is desirable for old tractors and hot rods because of the simplicity of the wiring. There is only the one large 'Batt' terminal, its internally self regulating and self exciting at a specific rpm. There's no need for the wiring that used to be to terminals 1 and 2 and the 'Delco one wire' has a factory plug jammed in where 1 & 2 used to be. Now here's another twist....they can be fitted with a special 'low rpm' exciter to initiate output at the lower engine speeds that antique tractors are known to run. I had a source years ago, but it dried up when that little shop retired.
I've noticed no problems with overcharging or boiling the batteries at all in the ones I've converted. The last one I put on a voltmeter instead of an ammeter like I've done in the past.
I'm going to print your awesome and detailed comment and clip it into my alternator notes down in the shed. Hey Joe...another question. Do you remember the old Corliss (??) generator/alternator testors? I've got two but I can't find information on how exactly to work them. I can see the outputs in amps but I don't know exactly what the rest of the features do.
@@tractorman4461 Thank You for dusting off the cobwebs. The plug in one wire and no wire plug with a resister in plug . They were used in 4cylinder diesel engines for gen , pumps side wake snow removal equipment even in tractor trailer bigger Delco units its coming back now. and yes on the coreless tester worked for a company delco auto electric rebuilding starters generators distributors they let me once touch a magneto for air craft I was taught by mechanic that were in the second world war doing electrical work on air craft .these mechanics were very good but do not fool around they were all business. The machine coreless had different regulators than car batteries to alternators starters that were almost two feet long for heavy equiptment. distributor machine . But one old guy didn't like it for starter because we couldn't load the starter motors . The old guy did make a machine for loading starters later some of them had an attachment to calibrate speedos rebuilt speedomiters and distributor the one machine you could rebuild voltage regulators and you could build just regulators . Now you got the juices flowing and carburetors all delco even install the delco gen for 120 volt and 220 volt units service trucks man that was 1973 I started there I learned so much there. This test or is like hooking up Frank Stin lot s of wires I have and old delco book I will check it out . if you can get a model number off the machine possible year I will call a friend who has been doing this for over 42 years whats weird I was going down to talk to him about a 4500 inverter has120v and 220v pulled out of cable truck its time to get it working so perfect timing Tractorman44
Question? What happens if the battery gets fully charged and the alternator no longer is charging. Doesn't it need to be re-excited somehow when the battery needs a recharge???
That's the cool thing about the internal excited Delco, once excited, terminal #2 provides a feedback signal to tell the internal regulator what output is required. So it will modulate all the way down and back up as load changes during the time after which it was initially excited. It will start the process over once the engine is restarted after a shutdown and do the same thing over again. Cliff notes version, of course because I don't have all the technical descriptors at my disposal.
I literally scratched this drawing down to lend a hand to an internet buddy and had no idea that many others would even see it. If you'd like a more complete tractor conversion diagram, including the voltmeter vs ammeter, take a few minutes to check this one out. It is specifically for a Ford 2000 conversion from oem electrical gauges to standard, more reasonably priced gauges available over the counter: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Its a done a little bit better.
@@tractorman4461 thanks for the reply. I hooking mine up to the start side of the switch.
When I had it on the run side, I melted wires. But I didn't have a diode back then.
Thanks again!
@@kirkmoore1202 Good luck with your endeavor but make sure there isn't something else wrong. A lot of guys will not use a diode or a dash light bulb, but just wire a toggle switch from the key to terminal # 1. Then after the tractor starts, just flip the switch on and off immediately to initiate excitation. Other guys just leave a short wire hang off the Batt terminal and after the tractor starts, they quickly touch the wire to terminal #1 and it does the same thing as the diode through the key switch or the toggle switch.
@@tractorman4461 yes. That is what I ended up doing just to get by safely!
Good evening Sir, I just subscribe to your video because Joe informed myself of your chanel and i'm real Massey Harris Fan ( my father had a 30 and 22 ) i really miss the 30 but not the 22 since i had to crank up by hand !!! LOL Very good description and very well explained also ! I will start to look all you videos ! CHeers !
Thank you sir...I saw you the other night in the snow/ice chains on the Bolens video with Joe. I had a 22 with electric start I traded to my older brother for an Oliver 77. But I still have (4) 30's. I have my dad's old '41 101 Super, 101 Senior, 101 Junior, about (4) or (5) 44's and a pony. Crazy huh ? Thank you sir for subscribing and thank you for the great comment above. I think Joe is an awesome mechanic, fabricator and has an awesome channel.
@@tractorman4461 You are also one of the kind !!! Yes, Joe as the power of stopping the time and creating marvelous engineering marvels !!! Cheers ! and love all your tractors !!!
Well Dave, I don't get to spend as much time as I want in, around, on and under the tractors, but you know... life happens. Thanks for the kudos sir !!
Can i use 3 Pin alternator (L S V) in my car having 2 pin alternator (L S)
thats some good info ...i may have to refer to this someday
Hey 'ol Grizz. Man I've been a bit busy and haven't gotten to stop by your place lately. I'll get back there...
WOULD A 2" JUMPER FRON THE HOT TERMINAL ON ALT GOING TO THE #1 ON THE ALT. DO THE SAME?
Yes, that should be all that is required. #2 is a 'feedback' terminal that lets the internal regulator determine how much to increase or decrease output. That's a crude and probably not totally a factual description, but it does basically that.
So if you have a on/off switch, then a push button start can the button be used for the exciter? Or can the exciter wire come off the small post one the solenoid?
Actually a lot of guys will either leave a little jumper there connected on one end, then excite it manually after they start it...or install a momentary switch on the dash to do the same thing. Start the tractor then merely give the button a touch. That's all it takes. The 12v used to excite it can come from anywhere in the circuit if you are planning on doing it manually as you questioned. That's where a voltmeter is beneficial. You can instantly see the change in voltage output the instant it begins creating the increased voltage.
@@tractorman4461 Thanks for the info! It's appreciated.
yay another channel to follow!
bota driver great !! Glad to have you looking around. Btw, I have a few Kubota’s and one is a B2400 I got from a buddy named Bert. The motor was very weak and needed a rebuild and about the same time I came across a FREE burnt BX2100. So I put the BX engine directly into the B2400 and as a result has been named the Burntabota. Though sometimes it’s referred to as the Bertabota too. Your name spurred that comment. Lolol.
LED stands for lighted electric display, In my own little world. They all work on a 2 volt difference from one end to the other. If you put one on the dash and it doesn't light with the key on, reverse the wires.
Yep....its like a check valve for electron flow. I touch them across the battery first to determine the way it needs to be hooked up....just to be sure before connection. Thanks Stanley for your input.
I always heard LED meant Light Emitting Diode. just saying.. not meant to be sarcastic.
Great explanation, One thing I didn't see was the ampmeter in from battery positive side, right.
Yes, from the Batt terminal to the + side of the ammeter. One thing though....I just quickly made this up with very little thought put into it help out a Canadian buddy that was having an issue with an old tractors charging circuit. I had no idea it would become as popular as it has or I would've taken a LOT more time to go in to detail. Usually the ammeter will feed into the ignition switch on the way to the positive post of the battery and feed accessories after the switch is turned on. Usually I'll wire the lights to where they are not powered through the ignition switch. So this sketch was really a quick basic connection for an antique tractor. I gotta tell you though that there are a lot better and professionally done drawings out there in youtube land. Thanks Jerry for the comment.
Does the diode have some resistance?
I am concerned that an inline diode of incorrect resistance will finally excite the alternator , but perhaps allow too much current. I'm trying to bypass a burnt out idiot light in a Cadillac. Don't have time to pull the dashboard off
I really have no suggestion for you on automotive. I don't work on anything but the old tractors whose wiring has been totally gutted and converted to the 12v alternator.
Question: I have a wire coming from ignition switch, off/on, to terminal #1. Terminal #2 has a short wire going to the battery post on the alternator along with the large wire going to amp gauge and then battery, pretty much the same way your diagram shows but just different routing. I can start the engine but it won’t shut off until I unplug the 1-2 terminal on the alternator. 1&2 terminals are hot while it’s running, I unplug it to stop engine and only the #2 post is hot then, like it should be, but something is keeping the #1, key switched wire hot until it’s unplugged? Is there something in the alternator causing this?
The reason for the diode in the wire from the ignition switch to terminal # 1 is to provide 12v to that terminal to excite the alternator but then shut power off to it after it starts. As soon as the alternator begins creating output at about 14.6v that is higher than the battery voltage of 12.6, because the diode is an electrical 'check valve', the diode or low wattage LED stops the flow to terminal # 1 so it is no longer receiving power through the switch. That should allow the tractor to shut off with the key.
Now what some guys do is wire a small push button switch in that wire so after the tractor is started, they just push the button for a split second and turn it loose. That excites the alternator and the button allows no completed circuit to terminal #1, keeping the engine running even after the key is turned off. Now there could be something in yours that's different....I really do not know. But what I've shown seems to work on the good number of tractors I've done it on.
This is a much better diagram and description I did on a '72 Ford 2000 three cylinder: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
@@tractorman4461 That makes sense . I converted the unit from external voltage regulator to internal regulator so it has no diodes at this time. Thanks
What happen if i connect terminal #1 to the positive terminal directly without LED?. thanks for this video sir...
I don't know what will happen long term because terminal 1 is only supposed to have applied voltage in order to externally excite the alternator. I would think it is not good to keep it in the circuit permanently. The diode stops the flow backwards FROM the alternator once it begins producing output voltage. But you should probably research the subject further to make your decision more informed. This is what I do on old antique tractors and not on vehicles with comprehensive wiring circuits.
Sir I have unusual question wuld alternator still work if you for exampel tap in to those 3 phase winding before the bridge rectifier and use capacitor banks insted of baterry or bouth baterry/capacitor banks together I honestly dont care if it is ac/dc capacitors types.
I was wondering how those old Ford Model T used ac magnetos and still baterry charged normali it didnt blow up or how not to get shocked from ac electricity from the capacitors I wuld use that to run only me ignition coil .
I also acured unusual problem I experimented lit bitt with hv ceramic capacitors I put 1 end to positive ignition coil and the other end from hv capacitor directly to ground me starting charge gone up around 3000rpm insted the normal 1000rpm so that made me wonder can capacitors control alternatora when they will charge and on what rpm range? That happened to me many times in Europ they have those tractor alternators who have condensors on them if the condensor fails the alternator does not charge any more.
And also some confusion they have be right or left puley turning alternator so can you please ask some profesional whats up with those alternators???
Mostly what I am after is alternator modification for old stationary engine conversions like Hot Bulb or Hit and Miss so I need modifi alternator to do that task so Im cinde of woried to get shocked be useing capacitoe banks .
Im seriusly not shure what wuld happen to me hei e core ignition coil if I insulate that thing and use directly capacitor banks directly to the ignition coil + and ground be not tuching car chassys at all Im not shure if that wuld work .
So Im looking at independent ignition system that can work with out baterry useing only alternator .
It is small opel engine from the 80s tipical GM design ordinary 4 cilinder engine so I have some modifications to do on that engine .
So bether to ask some one then regret it I supose
Well Elvin, you certainly posed some good questions but I'm not sure I'm capable of answering them as well as you require. I understand your desire to make a self contained power supply for the high tension coil, but personally I like the Ford low tension buzz coils and a small 12 volt battery out of a small motorcycle. It'd be the safest form of running an engine all day long and simplest to accomplish I think.
As far as cutting into the alternator circuit to operate the stationary engine through capacitors....I have no idea how to do that safely or if it can even be done. To make it operate totally independent you would have to have an alternator that was totally self-exciting with no 12vdc input. And you would have to know the minimum rpm it needed to turn to begin the output. The problem I see is not being to regulate that output without it being connected to a battery. Its going to create so much more output than your one engine will need to fire the coil and the battery is (I think) how the output would be controlled....through feedback and the internal regulator of the alternator. But I am just guessing here. I'm not really the guy to be asking. I'm sincerely sorry that I can't be of more help to you on solving this dilemma, but I would love to hear what your solution is when it IS solved.
@@tractorman4461 Thank you for your time sir.
I will post solution if you alove me to.
Curently Im surching for solution to electricaly advance/retard the pick up coil or 4 pin GM ignition module when Im done with that project I will try out alternator next .
Perhaps some one who works with Ford Model T culd give good advice or old army veteran who actualy worked on those old Starter/Generators .
Those are old teaching methodes sadly no one teaches not even in schools any more.
So realy depresing some times finding some info.
But I did some experiments alredy and recorde it .
Me engine conversions are mostly considered for low speed good fuel efficient engines .
So probably peopel quesed hard to start high torque engine in cold morning.
Personly I dont like those old GM regulators they have cool tehnology but sadly quality is terribel .
So thank you any way If I see some positive results I will inform you.
My second question is. What side of the switch did you hook into? Start? Or run???
About 8:20 on the other video I suggested to you a few minutes ago should address the question. Here it is again: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html When you turn on a three terminal ignition, the momentary portion goes to the starter solenoid (start) but the first terminal that receives the 12v signal (run) will energize the voltmeter as well as send 12v to the positive side of the LED, the other side of which goes on to the terminal #1 to excite the alternator. Once the alternator attains the proper rpm required to create output, the higher output voltage will then cause the LED to go out. At that point you know it is charging as well as by looking at the voltmeter. It will show battery 'static' voltage when you turn on the key. Should be 12.6 vdc. As soon as the alternator begins creating output, the diode should go out and the voltmeter should raise to about 14.6 vdc. Make sense Kirk ??
The only problem with the LED is that they use so little wattage that they can take a really long time to excite the alternator (as in hours or days and not seconds). The alternator will excite itself if the rpm's go high enough depending on the brand of alternator. If the LED goes out right after the rpm is "bumped up" it went out because the alternator excited itself at higher rpm's due to magnet memory in the windings and not due to the draw down load of the LED. It depends on the alternator at which rpms it will excite. If you want an alternator that excites without having to bump the rpms or if you have a high rpm exciting alternator, just use an idiot light that draws more wattage than an LED. In old 60's and 70's cars you will notice that the idiot light is a big clunky high wattage bulb. They used the higher wattage bulb because it would place a bleed down load on the alternator sufficient to cause it to excite at idle without higher rpms. Using an LED you are simply using it as an indicator that the RPMs have gone high enough to excite the alternator but the LED in and of itself is not enough of a load to excite the alternator without high rpms. Another note: Always use the 3 wire alternators. The one wire alternators use cheap Chinese junk diodes that fail. The one wire alternators are more expensive because someone had to convert them. You pay more for the one wire and the diodes burn out. The diodes are a one way check valve. When they burn out you will know it because the battery will bleed down and die when a bad diode is present.
Yes, all alternators have a specific minimum 'excitation' rpm and that varies from alternator to alternator. I understood that the three wire requires 12v dc input to terminal #1 in addition to attaining its particular rpm. This is a new one on me if I understood your comment to infer that it will excite anyway at the required rpm without the 12v feed through the diode. That's something of which I am not aware.
In this case, the diode or LED is not being used as a draw down load to excite, it is just being used as an input voltage to cause excitation, then being an electrical check valve it shuts off when the higher created output voltage of the alternator tries to feed backwards. At that point the input to terminal #1 is terminated by the diode refusing backwards flow....and if its an LED, it will shut off. When an LED fails, the battery won't bleed down, the LED will no longer light up when the key is turned on.
Thanks Honest Abe for the food for thought. I'm going to try an 1157 in a standard socket on the next one and I'm going to bench test a three wire without 12v input to terminal #1 just to see. But in the mean time, let me know if I actually understood that correctly in the first part of your reply. I appreciate the input. And like you prefer, I too prefer the three wire over the one wire.
@@tractorman4461 You may have to excite the alternator the very first time manually. After that it will retain a memory magnetism. You can always add the "idiot" light and then you do not have to worry about the rpms. However, if you use an idiot light, you have to have a bulb of a high enough wattage that it pulls a load. A typical LED bulb has such low wattage that it will take forever for it to put a load on the #1 terminal. I have a 53 WIllys and I use the two wire configuration without an idiot light. That alternator will excite at about 1200 rpm. Each alternator is different as to which RPM it will kick in. Once it kicks in, it remains charging even at 400 rpm. Just a start up I have to bump the throttle to get it going. However, even in your case with an LED, the LED is merely an indicator and not exciting the alternator. It does not allow enough wattage to pass through it. Your way of wiring is the most proper, however, you have to have a higher wattage bulb than an LED or its just an indicator and not an exciter.
@@honestabe7349 Excellent !! Thank you for the additional input. It shows you an old dog CAN be taught new tricks !!
The positive side of the led goes towards the switch side of pole 1? And when it starts charging the led with go out correct?
Yes, when the ignition switch passes 12v to the coil, it should also send 12v to #1 on the alternator through the LED. The positive side of the LED is powered by that 12v signal so that when the static voltage (whats in the battery) becomes lower than the alternator output, the higher voltage returning to the LED from terminal 1 will cause it to go out. The higher voltage at that point is being fed in reverse flow to the LED and it, being a diode, will not allow it to pass. Check out this video, it is a little more comprehensive than this one here, then there are two more where this diagram is implemented and then checked out in a startup and checkout procedure. This one first: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one for the actual install: ruclips.net/video/QoynNQwiWds/видео.html then this one for the checkout and verification: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html Good luck Robert with your project and thanks for watching this one and commenting.
@@tractorman4461 thank you sir, very helpful. I'm starting a 383 stroker on an engine stand. Was trying to figure out how to wire up the alt outside of the vehicle
Wired an old Chalmers up exactly like this yet the LED never shuts off yet the alternator still overcharges. Upward to 17v?
Several things come to mind. First, make sure it is a 12 volt LED. Diodes operate with a voltage differential across them. So one that's rated for 120 volts may act like you describe, though with only 12v or 17 volts being applied to either side it probably shouldn't even light up. Second, the LED wattage could be too high or too low. I have only one that doesn't completely shut off....it flickers continuously but the alternator continues to function fine, but I do need to change the LED. Third, if the alternator is giving out 17 volts or upwards, the first thought is that since the Delco 3 wire is internally regulated, the internal regulator is probably not doing its job. I've not experienced that particular problem with an alternator but I have with a three brush generator. That's where I would start. I just converted a Ford 2000 this week with the identical connections using an off the shelf 12v LED from O'Reillly's Auto and it works perfectly. Voltage output of the alternator should be 14.6 or 14.7 read with an accurate digital voltmeter. Good luck Max, and let us know what you find. Btw check this out if you'd like: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is the complete diagram minus the tractor lighting circuits that I used on the 2000.
@@tractorman4461 heading out to fiddle with it now, I just found the LED in a junk drawer so that might be the issue. Thank you for the reply!
@@maxr1401 No problem Max, I hope you get it working. But the 17 volt output has me a bit concerned. I hope we can figure that one out. O'Reillys has one that pops inot a 3/4'' standard hole that works perfectly.
Thanx
No problem. A more complete tractor conversion is here: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one shows how I use voltmeters instead of ammeters too.
Hey Tractorman44, Thanks for the explanation. Question: I have a Massey 245 Diesel and have a starter switch that is only used to start the engine. Nothing else is electrical. If I connected the excite wire to the start side of the switch, would it excite the alternator while cranking the engine? When I let the key go, the switch is off. I also have no working gauges.
I'm not totally sure that exciting it JUST during starting would do the trick. But a lot of guys wire 12v through a simple toggle switch on the dash, start the tractor then turn on the toggle switch for literally a split second and back off AFTER the engine and alternator get up to speed. See what has to happen in most alternators, is there is a 'minimum' rpm it needs to spin PLUS having 12v input on terminal #1 to initiate output. So energizing it only while the motor is in the process of ramping up on start up may not achieve the needed rpm for the alternator to put out. JT, take a few minutes and check out this diagram I just used on a 2000 Ford gasser: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html I think in that one I describe how adding a voltmeter gives you instant verification of voltage output from the alternator.
@@tractorman4461 Ok, thanks, I'll try it.
is a 1 amp diode heavy enough for the exciter wire?
I would think so. But they are cheap enough to have a few sizes on hand. I've been using off the shelf LED's with good luck and I don't know the ratings on them at all. I do have a larger one that flickers instead of shutting off, so I think it must be rated too small. Radio Shack closed in my town around 20 years ago and I needed something different. If you have time, check out this one too: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
If you experience battery drain the you have a bad alternator or a problem with your switch
Yessir, good point Thomas. This was just a quick video sketched out for a tractor buddy. I had no idea it would become a popular video or I would have done a much more thorough job. Take a look at this one I made for a 1972 Ford 2000 three cylinder tractor: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This one is easily adapted to most of the old tractors out there.
Thank you for information and advice
You know your shit and it is easy to tell 😊😊
This simple diagram has a funny origin. A Canadian buddy was having trouble with the alternator on his Case 430 and I sketched this in literally 3 minutes (you can tell). I was trying to email it to him and couldn't figure out how to do it, so I just put it on RUclips and sent him the link. If I'd had any idea so many people would see it, I would have done a much better and more thorough job....similar to the one for the '72 Ford 2000. It certainly is NOT my best work....LOL Thanks Phillip for the comment !!
Hi Tractorman44, I can excite my alternator by touching pin 1 to 12v. However when I try with an LED from the key switch it doesn't tickle the alternator. The LED does illuminate. Any thoughts?
The LED is essentially a 'diode' that when connected with the + on the positive post and the - to the negative post, will emit light. If its polarity is reversed, as in + to - and - to +, it will not emit light and will not function to excite the termintal #1. The first thing I would do would be to ensure the polarity is correct. When correct, it will light up as soon as the key switch is turned to the 'on' position, and allow 12v to pass through it to excite the terminal #1. Once the alternator reaches the correct rpm, the out put voltage of 14.6 will try to feed back to the diode, but the diode then stops the flow of electron and shuts off the light. Take a few minutes and watch this more complete version of the diagram for a Ford 2000 tractor. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html There is a whole playlist up on my toolbar from start to finish showing the logic behind the checkout procedure too of the conversion. Good luck.
Thanks for the response. The LED will illuminate but never excites pin 1. I've watched both your videos several times. Maybe I'll just try the plain 1N4001 diode instead of the LED
@@cindyperry2319 LEDs are rated in wattage. I have had an over the counter one not work correctly as well. I just changed it to a different one and it then worked as it should. The bad thing is I don’t know what wattage to suggest. The one that wouldn’t work would flicker and not shut all the way off. I assumed it was too high of wattage. Some guys just use the jumper with a switch to flip the jumper on for a split second and back out.
That's my guess too. Something with the amperage or wattage on that LED. I'm going to get a 1N4001 diode. If that works I'll research a different LED. A toggle switch is always an option. 😉
@@cindyperry2319 one thing to think of too is every alternator has a minimum rpm to reach before excitation begins. Have you tried to increase the rpm’s when testing ? There is NO resistance to a jumper wire but there IS resistance to overcome with a diode feeding it. Marginal, but still it’s resistance. Just a thought fir you.
I'm horrible with electrical so much so I've bypassed the ignition to a Hotwire switch on all but one of my tractors lol I just can't get my head around the charging systems :( it makes me feel like a dummy lol
Don't be concerned about that at all....in all these years, I still have my issues with the three brush adjustable generators with cutouts and the two brush generators with the voltage regulators. I change most all of them to a simpler set up like this and sometimes use voltmeters instead of an ammeter. But they wire differently than this one here. Sorry, but your comment got stuck in the spam folder....I just found it along with around 80 others. Thanks for the comments !!
Great video I have a 49 ferguson te20 that somebody butchered the wiring and the alternator is one wire and don’t have the two prongs can I still hook up that little light
Well the true “one wire” alternator takes away the need for the light. The little LED or diode is needed on the other style with the two spade clips on the side to provide the voltage to terminal 1 when the key is turned on to “excite” the alternator to cause it to begin its output on the large (Batt) terminal. Being a diode it will pass voltage only one way then when output is established the LED should then go out. Though I do have a couple tractors that it flickers very slightly. The second terminal is the “feedback” terminal that gives the internal regulator the information it needs to regulate the output voltage. Your true “one wire” has no need for the LED, so some guys wire in a voltmeter to monitor the output voltage of the one wire alternator. I have had no bad issues, though you may do a little more research to see what others suggest.
Hello, does terminal 1an 2 need to be connected in order for a charge? Currently I have a battery wire to alt and is grounded. Alt is not charging. Thank you for your help.
Check out the response on your other post....hope that helps you with your problem.
hello MR how are you i hope im not bothering you but i have a question about this part i have my alternator with two wire on the top and he is berned can i replace it ,i have one another alternator with 3 wire on the top can i monting that with two wire is that OK my BMW X5 is with 2 wire can you answer me please i realy need some help in that part
I am not familiar with the alternator you are referring to with the 3 wire plug on top as you describe. So I wouldn't venture a guess as to what you should do. This video is only suggesting alternatives for converting antique tractors from 6v to 12v. Sorry sir.
Just run a short wire from terminal #2 to the battery post of the alternator. No need to run another long wire back to the battery.
I just drew this in haste with no real thought for a buddy who was having a problem with his tractor's Delco. So If I'd known it would be seen by so many, I would have drawn a much more precise drawing with notations. But you are right, just attach it to the Batt terminal. It literally took less than ten minutes to make and upload the video back then. Thanks fiddlerpin for the input.
That is correct. The #2 terminal is the voltage sensing terminal. It senses the voltage at the connection and the alternator adjusts the alternator voltage output to 14 volts in the case of a 12 volt alternator. The only time you really need a longer sensing connection is if you have a really long car. If you have an old cadillac boat and you have 12 volts at the battery but only 8 or 10 volts at the taillights you will have dim taillights. To solve this problem instead of jumping a wire between post #2 and "Batt" on the alternator, connect #2 to the taillight. Now the alternator will increase voltage until it senses 14 volts at the taillights and they will be much brighter. However on something like a tractor or an old willys jeep, voltage drop is negligible and you can jump directly between #2 and "Batt".
Hello does term 1 and 2 need to be connected in order for alt to charge ? TY
Well, on a three wire Delco, terminal #1 is the terminal that is responsible for 'exciting' the alternator. At a specific rpm, with voltage applied to terminal #1 when the key is on is what causes the alternator to create an output. But the applied voltage has to be removed after output begins, so that's the reason for the diode. A diode is a device that allows flow in only one direction, so when the rpm increases, the higher voltage flows backwards to the diode which then stops it from backfeeding in the circuit and the alternator keeps maintaining output higher than the applied battery static voltage. If you are using a light instead of a diode, that's what causes the light to go out. Remember the old cars that had dash lights? The red light would go out after the car started.
Terminal #2 is kinda a 'monitoring' terminal that when connected to the battery positive (or the Batt terminal on the alternator) provides information to the internal regulator to allow it to determine the amount of output required to charge or maintain charge in the battery.
Now technically that's probably not absolutely and totally correct, and there's a lot more theory, but this is basically what happens in the typical Delco three wire.
Yep it works now , after connecting it. I thought those wires were both for the inside gage. When you used the word “ excite” that rang a bell for me. Thanks so much ..
@@dgomes4464 Awesome !!
Any reason why you didn't just run a short jumper wire from #2 to Batt on the alternator?
Actually that's pretty much how I connect them on the old tractors, jumping 2 to Batt. I drew this on the fly without giving any pre thought to the drawing and just drew the wire all the way back because I was in a hurry to post this in answer to a Canadian buddy's question on his particular tractor. If I was to redo the video I think the wording and content of the verbage would be slightly different. It was really just a quick video kind of just for him. I had no idea it would draw this much interest...or I WOULD have done a bit better. Thanks for watching and asking sir.
The #2 terminal is the voltage sensing terminal. It senses the voltage where ever you make the connection and the alternator adjusts the alternator voltage output until it senses14 volts at the connection point in the case of a 12 volt alternator. The only time you really need a longer sensing connection is if you have a really long car. If you have an old cadillac boat and you have 12 volts at the battery but only 8 or 10 volts at the taillights you will have dim taillights. To solve this problem instead of jumping a wire between post #2 and "Batt" on the alternator, connect #2 to the taillight. Now the alternator will "sense" the lower voltage at the appliance and increase voltage until it senses 14 volts at the taillights and they will be much brighter. This is also sometimes necessary when you have an engine mounted alternator and a battery in the trunk. If you have voltage drop between the alternator and the remote battery, you may need to connect #2 closer to the remote battery so that it receives a full 14 volt charge. However on something like a tractor or an old willys jeep, voltage drop is negligible and you can jump directly between #2 and "Batt".
Hey tractorman, my amp meter keeps going up in amps, rising to 30 amps, what can I do to fix this? Or is it fine? Do I need to run wire to resistor? Have an old 48 8N. Watched a few videos but went with LED light like you drawn up.
Well Thomas I can't really tell not being right there watching what's going on and looking at the load consumption. But I don't use ammeters at all any more because they are difficult to really tell what's happening in the circuit. I only use voltmeters in place of ammeters to see the actual battery voltage 'at rest' and the increased voltage the instant the alternator starts creating output. You'll see the volt meter change from 12.6 v to 14.6v the instant the alternator becomes excited and meets the minimum rpm to cause it to start. Terminal #2 is responsible for signalling back to the internal regulator just how much output is required to charge and maintain the correct battery voltage. If its not hooked up to the Batt terminal, the regulator can't regulate correctly. The second thing is how much load do you have...probably nothing to speak of...so the ammeter should be reading only slightly towards positive. It could be defective....but no way for me to tell. Btw, the voltmeter doesn't wire in like the ammeter...just FYI. Btw check out this sketch I just made for a much newer Ford: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html
Thank you for a great and informative video. I just liked and subscribed. I have an old forklift with a delco 3 wire alternator and a detroit diesel that has been sitting for about 15 years. Just now got an injector and the rack unstuck. It started and sounds great but the alternator is not putting out. To clear up my head about the idiot light, does it have to be an led or diode? Can it be just an incandescent bulb? The reason I ask is, what was used before leds? I read somewhere that the excitor terminal is just a ground wire and when the alternator starts turning the ground is lost which is what stops the idiot light from illuminating. I really don't know but I want to learn and I'm planning to try and fix my problem soon so I wanted to ask your opinion. Thanks in advance and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
Well terminal #1 has to receive a 12v dc signal to initiate a charge. It isn't a ground. I like to use an LED because it only allows electricity to flow one way. As soon as the alternator hits the minimum rpm to allow excitation, the higher output voltage will try to go backwards, but can't so the LED shuts off and the alternator continues to provide out put. Terminal #2 provides input to the internal regulator to increase or decrease the output to maintain the correct charging rate to the battery without over charging it. Let me suggest this much newer and complete video I just made to convert a 1972 Ford 2000 with. I think you'll find it much more informative than this one. You'll see the advantage of changing from an ammeter to a voltmeter too !! At least that is my own opinion. ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is one of three videos on my channel about this diagram. You'll even see something I overlooked in the last one.... Hope these help you. Btw, I have a 3-71 Detroit as well. Been sitting about 7 or 8 years now. It's going on a circle sawmill.
@@tractorman4461 Thanks for the update.Your videos are very helpful. You will love that Detroit and you may already know this..............be aware they are known for injectors/rack sticking after they sit for awhile causing runaway at start up. The problem is when a Detroit shuts down the rack goes to rest at wide open throttle. If an attempt to start with the rack stuck is successful it can immediately start running wide open with no way to reduce the throttle. The only way to stop it is to shut off the fuel or air supply. I would check to see if it has an emergency shut off and make sure it is in working order before attempting to start or better yet check the rack and injectors fiirst. Hope this is informative/helpful.
@@stevemeade6072 I knew there's an issue sometimes of them running away...but I'll make sure the rack is not stuck before I fire it up. But just in case, I'll be prepared to shut the fuel and air off to it too. Thanks for the tips.
Nice video
Batista f Rose thank you for the comment. It was a hurried response to another you tubers questions concerning Delco alternators for old tractors. It’s worked fine for me on a lot of antique tractors.
good job were to get diode the number
the bandito the diode listed in the video comes from radio shack. Thanks for watching.
Crazy that I forgot how to connect them but I’m old mechanic now 😢😢
That happens to all of us from time to time Phillip. I think I have forgotten much more than I've retained to be honest. Old mechanics are just as good as young ones....just a little slower moving. I'm rapidly approaching that myself....heck I MIGHT already be there !! Thanks for the comment. Please do so anytime, my friend.
I did this "almost" very thing decades ago with a silicon diode instead of LED. One mistake you made, is hooking the load "the key" feed to the battery. All loads except the main starter cable belong on the alternator side of the ammeter. This makes it "balance" correctly to zero. Terminal 2 should NOT cause a drain, but who knows with modern China parts?
When I drew this up, it was just to help a buddy in Canada figure out what was wrong with his charging system. There was no forthought and took just a few minutes. Had I known others were going to be so interested in it, I would have taken the time to draw it entirely differently. Most of the time I don't use an ammeter, just a voltmeter because most all my tractors are retired except for light duty use and have no external loads except the ignition. You are right about the questionable Chinese parts too. But here is one I drew for a '72 Ford 2000 conversion: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it for sure. Its amazing what I learn from viewers.
thx.
I have a much better more comprehensive video of this basic circuit: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html and here it is checked out and in operation: ruclips.net/video/5CR-uk17-Fk/видео.html
@@tractorman4461 in the end will the combination of the power from the alternator,in my Case 12V-90A be 48V and 22,5A and my Bike Battery with 48V and 13,5A What? 48V and 36A,near my 48V-13,5A Bike Battery never goes down because,it is like charging my Bikebattery with 48V and 22,5A,right? not all know at the normal Charger give me only 2-3-4 or 5 A if i Charge,but i go right on the Outlet and push 22,5A in,so i dont need in normal my Bike Battery and can also drive ONLY with the Power from the Alternator. all i do is steal the power from the Carbattery,chage this to 48V and 22,5A and can drive for EVER,solong no Part breaks down.
haha,maybe a Idear for a full electric Powered Tractor,som never need Gasoline or a Poweroutlet ;-) crazy,but NOW possible.@@tractorman4461
@@Chefchen21 Well, it sounds like you have a very good solution. I hope it all works as good as your theory. A lot of people use a self exciting one wire Delco to provide power for welding though I have never tried it. Good luck !!
if it works and i have all finished,so i will send you a link for the video. thx so far. @@tractorman4461
It us a one 1 on the diode.
It's been so long since I used it, I really don't remember. I've been using off the shelf LED's from O'Reillys as a substitute instead. They give me power indication, they go off as soon as the higher output voltage from the alternator is seen in the circuit. Thanks Mike for the input.
Any relation to George Clooney?
LOL...now that's a comment from out in left field. LOL We will let the mystery remain. I remain silent.......
Easier to run wire from #2 on alternator to battery post on alternator.
Yes, that's usually how I do it while installing. This is only a quick drawing to illustrate the issue. Thanks for watching.
That is a 1N4001 it's a 1a 50v rating. Use a 1N4007 instead it has a 1a 1000v rating and is very common also, Then spiks won't blow the 50v rating of the other one. Misprint on his package.
Awesome !! Thanks for the input.
Battery drain is caused from wire 1 & 2 being switched around
I can see that as a problem because #1 is the terminal that needs to be tickled with battery voltage when the key is turned on to initiate alternator output as soon as it’s rotating the minimum speed. Thanks fir the added input. It is appreciated.
Just say it like massage,...except La...sage, except soft 'g'.
Thank you sir. I just didn't want to say it wrong.
@@tractorman4461 I appreciate your thinking,..a lot of folks wouldn't take the time to pronounce a word or name correctly.
I have subscribed to your channel, because Joe suggested it and thought you'd have some interesting content. Now I'll see and hear, for myself.
Cheers!
Thank you sir. I'm hoping to not disappoint you. I don't have a particular theme like only tractors, or only chainsaws, or only sawmills. It's pretty much a hodge podge of things I like to do or have to do to live the way I want to live. Thank you again for subbing and for taking the time to watch and comment. I appreciate it.
It's a 1n diode
I've substituted the diode for a 12v LED from O Reillys for the last dozen or so conversions. It does the same thing as the diode. The cool thing is you know the alternator is putting out as soon as the diode goes out.
There is myriad ways
This was just a sketch for a Canadian buddy to help him with a problem. This one is much more comprehensive and a bit longer: ruclips.net/video/PXIh78bDr0U/видео.html This is for a 1972 Ford 2000 but can easily be adapted to many other tractors.