I think I had just the opposite experience growing up with the Atari / Commodore computers, beginning with the Atari 8-bits --> Atari ST. I've recently begun to dabble in the Commodore realm myself and have loved both the 8-bit and Amiga eras. They are both awesome bits of history and it's definitely fun to explore the much more vibrant 1980's computers!
@@jameshenry8015 honestly most of the computing world does not realize the debt of gratitude we owe to Jay Miner and his crew. I honestly believe that Apple and Windows jealously copied so many things that the AMIGA could do, and would never in a million years give him credit.
The first computer I ever used, Absolutely fantastic 8 and 16k games on cart. Later we got an 800 and loved it! We never knew that Amiga had 400/800 roots but is was too expensive in '86 to afford anyway. We went with the ST and loved it too, but I still always wonder what if the A500 was available right away and what if we knew it really was an 800 on steroids?
Yes, there are some really nice games for the Atari 8 bit for sure. I think a very sizable amount of people who designed the 400/800 went off and created Amiga Inc.
It was my first computer too, with a cassette drive. After typing in a few basic programs from magazines we traded it in on a 48K 800 with a real keyboard and an 810 disk drive.
My dad only ever wanted to play one game on my Dragon 32 "Defense" which was a Missile Command game. He had the highest score by far when I sold that system and got my Amiga, that was the last time I ever played a game with my dad.
My mom told me, some time ago, that my dad used to stay up till 2am practicing on the VCS in order to keep up with, and occasionally beat, me in my favorite games. I find myself doing the same thing with my kid in minecraft. :)
That is just hilarious! Maybe my dad snuck into the Atari room and practiced on Combat! My son and I often play games with each other - both new and old. We are running through "Super Mario Brothers Wonder" on the Switch right now
@@10MARC My little one LOVES that game. I haven't got a chance to play it, yet. The house favorite over here is Splatoon (1, 2, and 3). If you haven't played it yet you absolutely should.
I got one recently and noticed how clear the RF is too thankGod, as the composite mods are a pain (as you have to dismantle a lot). Got a demodulator to get perfect composite out to a small lcd projector for Star Raiders on our rec room wall!
I agree! I hooked up my Atari 800 tonight, and I was not really any more impressed with the composite than I was with the RF. I have researched the mods, and it sounds like they don't pull the audio out, and those have to be done separately.
I bought an Atari 400 back in 1981 , upgraded it from 16k to 48k , got a 1050 disc drive, bought the Action cart and programmed the game Midas Maze on it. sure the keyboard was kinda of a pain, but trust me, you get used to it after a while. Now as for build quality , in 1984 , I walked into an electronics store during a bad thunderstorm, lightning hit the powerlines, all the lights in the store went out, and you could smell the burnt electronics. The C64 on display there, the Vic 20 and the apple II's all died, but the Atari 400 and 800 both booted right back up. so I played a game of Star Raiders on the 800. because that was the game on display there. guess that aluminum case really was a good idea. and I still have the 400 48k, and it still works today. by the way, great video, thanks for doin the 400 justice.
A lot of good information here. Great job!! For repairing the 800 case, I highly recommend the superglue+baking soda method. Use only glue in the crack, and then behind (inside the case) use both together. The baking soda adds bulk and will reinforce it a lot. Works great! There are how-to's here on youtube that show how to combine them. There is Asteroids Arcade for the A8's that emulates the arcade machine which is of course, nearly arcade perfect. Came out around 2014 iirc. For a proper SID vs POKEY comparison, include Star Wars (arcade 3D-ish one) and how the C64 version sounds like a (cheap?) synthesizer instead of how the arcade machine's music sounds. While SID is a much better synthesizer purposed chip, poor developer implementation meant POKEY was frequently (not always) better in various games. Or alternatively, software developed originally on the A8's often meant developers porting to C64 did not match the original vision or talent (the levity of Spy vs Spy 1's music for example). Love hearing SID when developers have skill.... R Hubard and others as great examples. Hubard's POKEY tunes are also amazing. Compare the sound effects in Blue Max for both. One chip is for sound effects, the other is a synthesizer. POKEY does more than sound. Also handles SIO, paddle controllers and keyboard input. To compete with the VIC20, it's too bad they didn't initially release a $250 A8 with no keyboard, all on one board, no SIO, one joyport, etc etc.. That was a big miss and C= ate Atari's lunch. The original Centipede is okay but I don't like how the bugs animate so chunkily. Millipede fixes that (but it's spiders are maybe even worse in chunky movement). There are several different Centipede variants, each quite different. I think there's also an arcade emulated one for A8. If you get a trackball, press CTRL-T to play either game with that! The arcade Joust also uses POKEY as well so the A8 vers sounds best. =) There is pacman arcade (released 2014+) that plays great. Skywriter was cool. Never seen that before! Yes some XE carts will work on a 48K 400/800 machine because they are 32K carts (Blue Max should). Was also an A500 user.. Got one in 87. ST was not for me but did seem slick at first. Yes please do more A8 vids!
Great information! Thanks for sharing! The repair on my Atari 800 went OK. I did use the baking soda method. The cracks are still a bit obvious, but it's not too bad. I have plans to sand it down a bit and paint it a nice Metallic Blue - I would not do that to a pristine case, but IMHO a broken case is fair game to have fun with
I have a 48K 800 that still works. Got an SIO to USB so it can play my old favorite games right off of a PC's hard drive. I still have my 1983 Atari 300 baud modem kicking around here somewhere. I always thought it serendipitous that Atari joysticks worked with Amigas. My favorite joystick is still a cheap cut down Atari stick with just the nub of the rubber boot on the tip for my thumb.
Very nice. I like the idea of it interfacing right with your PC via USB. Neat! The Fujinet is awesome since it also adds WiFi right to the system and lets you get online just like back in the day.
I had a couple 2600's before getting a 400 and then trading it in on an 800. After the 810 disk drive died I was too busy partying, chasing girls and hot rodding before getting an Amiga 500 a few years later. I eventually turned computers into a business, first with a multi-line Amiga BBS (got up to 20 phone lines with it) and later a full blown ISP business. I never would have gotten into it all without the Ataris.
The build quality of the 400 looks much better than the Vic for sure but dang that keyboard puts me right off, the 800 on the other hand looks a very nice machine :)
I have nothing but positive things to say about the build quality! These things are tanks! If you approach it 90% as a games machine and maybe an inexpensive path into the world of computers, I get their keyboard philosophy. You could not have convinced me of this in 1981, though!
Doug !!! I was similar, ATARI VCS 79, ZX81 in 81, Spectrum 82 - then ATARI 800XL in 85 (mate had C64) then from 86 all AMIGA AMIGA (A1000) - but another mate had Amiga and ST. Those were the glory days.
Good video... glad I subscribed ☺️... A friend of mine had a 520 STfm and I nearly bought one until I saw (and heard) the Amiga 500 that another couple of friend had lol 😆
You made the right choice buying the Amiga. I will admit that the ST was better than the Mac computer of the same generation, and vastly better than the PC's. Amiga was at an entirely different level, though.
I like the Atari 8-bit computers a lot. The OS is much better than that on the Commodore 8-bit systems and they are all compatible unlike many of the Commodore 8-bit computers. One complaint is the video RAM is limited to 8 KB. I would have liked to see a 16 KB limit to allow 8 colors per screen or scan-line instead of four. I would have also liked to have seen an 80 column mode that supported color and player/missile graphics. Today's solution is the VBXL or VBXE but few people have them. I would also have liked to have seen the VIC-II with a 256 color palette from which to choose the 16 colors.
I suspect some of the limitations are simply because the machines came out so early. They were incredible for 1979! I think it is just because I am so used to Commodores OS, I find it easier to use than Atari.
I went the Vic20, C=64, Amiga, route, and have no regrets. They always seemed to be so much more expensive than the Commodore products. My favourite game on the machines of that era (C-64), was Dig Dug, and Pacman. I still have all my 8 bit machines, including a 64 K Sinclair ZX-81, and a C-128. I made lots of modifications to both the Vic20, and the C-64 with the dual MSD drive, but the C-64 was the favourite machine by far. They are not on display, but that is the intention. Did you ever type in those machine language programs from Gazette? They worked quite well.
Yes, those machine language programs were neat in Computes Gazette - with the built in error checker! Unfortunately they never taught you actual machine language. Make sure you try the brand new version of Dig Dug for the C64 that came out a few months back. I did a video on it. It is about as arcade perfect as the C64 can get, and fixes ALL of the issues with the original version.
@@10MARC So true, I just meant in terms of using an example of the speed and efficiency of machine language code compared to basic. I did spend a fair amount of time programming and used Jim Butterfield's book of machine language programming as my reference manual. I really enjoyed that aspect of programming, but let my brain cells rot after switching to the Amiga. My day job didn't allow me enough time to start all over again. On the Amiga, I did a lot of programming with Comal, an excellent language, far superior to basic.
Really? Never plugged it in to anything, actually. I keep it in my front room in my "museum" cabinet. I will check it - I must have just assumed it was SIO. If I can plug it into any joystick port that makes it super useful!
Bruh! Ataris are great. They are different to be sure and comparing the ST to the Amiga is a waste of time as they both excel in their respective areas, but glad to see you showcasing other computers. But mark my words, you will eventually review the MSX2 machines and find a new religion there.
So far I have only been interested in things important to my youth. I have no doubt the MSX2 is incredible... Just no desire for it. Same thing for the NES and SNES. They were never a thing for me as a kid, so I don't bother with them now. The 8 bit Ataris appeal to me because of my Atari VCS love, and the fact that I wanted one as a kid
I had a VIC-20, Commodore 64 and then a few Amigas growing up. I wouldn't have been able to get into computing without the low priced VIC-20. If price hadn't been an issue, the Atari 400 and 800 were definitely better systems than the VIC-20 and pretty comparable with the Commodore 64. Of course, the Atari 400/800 are the older siblings of the Amigas, both systems being similarly designed by Jay Miner with the Ataris having the ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY custom chips, and the Amiga having the similar AGNUS, Denise and Paula custom chips. Today I consider myself a Jay Miner fan more than a Commodore or Atari fan. The Commodore 8-bit computers and the Atari 16/32-bit computers don't interest me.
The irony is the Amiga is the Atari 8 Bit descendant, and the ST is the Commodore 64 descendant... But regardless you would have moved to Apple or PC or early Linux after the temporary, fools gold, advances of the Amiga. Unfortunately Atari and Amiga would both become irrelevant when their respective companies could not longer move forward and compete.
While it is true that Atari ST was made by much the same team as the C64, it's a real shame they brought so little of the C64 capabilities over. The darn 8 bit had great audio, sprites and buttery smooth scrolling and the poor Atari ST had none of those.
I am an old fart I remember the Atari 8 Bit computers but only knew one person that had one and then he got an ST. Funny thing is I have no memory of seeing them in stores and where I did see them most was on McDonald Promotions as one of the prizes. My family was poor if you wanted to play games you played board or card games. Only computer I got to play with back in 1977 was a DEC PDP system at school which is where I got to play with (shhh) Punch Cards, key punch machines which would make membranes look & feel wicked awesome. Yea to have anything back then in the house to play on would of been awesome. Got to play with more computers in college but getting time on a terminal required the patience of JOB and that's where I learned to type fast. Yes get your programs written, entered saved on the hard drive and 8" Floppies. I talk too much but blame that on COBOL.
I bought an Atari 800 in 1980. Prior to that I only used my high school’s Ohio Scientific Challenger II. Started college fall of 1980, and used a PDP-11/34A there.
I remember the Atari 8 bits in stores. They sometimes just had "Memo Pad" running so you could not do anything but type. At least on the VIC-20 and C64 we could create "Hello World" on all the display machines.
It would have been nice if they made the 5200 more compatible with the 8 bits. Imagine being able to use virtually all of the Atari 8 bit games on the 5200. It would have increased the library from 60+ games to thousands of potential games.
@@10MARCI have heard that there was a big rivalry internally between the console team and the home computer team. They intentionally designed the hardware to not fit because they didn't want to become obsolete.
With a ~1.8 MHz CPU it was certainly more powerful than the C64 in the CPU area but in graphics and sound it wasn't as good. But with that extra CPU power (basically 2x) they leveraged that to close the gap. I own an XEGS and one day I'm going to get some updates to it.
I agree the CPU is faster than the C64, but I am not sure just how much that made a difference. It will be interesting to see how the versions of BASIC stand up against each other. The 256 color palette is awesome on the Atari is great - you can see it in some of the games for sure.
@@10MARC One big difference with the BASIC implementations is that Atari BASIC was *much* faster at string-handling and much slow with simple integer math.
Personally, I always liked the Atari graphics system much more than the C64, but it was different enough that ports from other computers didn't turn out well. The reverse, of course, was true with things that started out on Atari systems, like the Lucasfilm games and the Alternate Reality series. The CPU speed was of less benefit than you would expect, due to the DMA system on the A8 line.
While the CPU was faster, the ANTIC/GTIA steal more CPU cycles than the VIC-II in the C64. Text mode doesn't steal too many but higher resolution and color modes steal more CPU cycles than lower resolution and color modes. Worse case, I think the CPU effectively runs between 1.3 and 1.44 MHz. The TED in the Commodore 16 and Plus/4 also steal quite a few CPU cycles so while they also run at 1.79 MHz, the effective CPU speed is also between 1.3 and 1.4 MHz.
I think I had just the opposite experience growing up with the Atari / Commodore computers, beginning with the Atari 8-bits --> Atari ST. I've recently begun to dabble in the Commodore realm myself and have loved both the 8-bit and Amiga eras. They are both awesome bits of history and it's definitely fun to explore the much more vibrant 1980's computers!
That's really cool. I love the Atari 8 bit machines! They were so far ahead of their time.
Totally! Jay Miner was a visionary!
@@jameshenry8015 honestly most of the computing world does not realize the debt of gratitude we owe to Jay Miner and his crew. I honestly believe that Apple and Windows jealously copied so many things that the AMIGA could do, and would never in a million years give him credit.
I don't think he gets enough credit for his Atari work either. It's made the Atari 8 bit computers the true ancestor of the Amigas.
The first computer I ever used, Absolutely fantastic 8 and 16k games on cart. Later we got an 800 and loved it! We never knew that Amiga had 400/800 roots but is was too expensive in '86 to afford anyway. We went with the ST and loved it too, but I still always wonder what if the A500 was available right away and what if we knew it really was an 800 on steroids?
Yes, there are some really nice games for the Atari 8 bit for sure. I think a very sizable amount of people who designed the 400/800 went off and created Amiga Inc.
It was my first computer too, with a cassette drive. After typing in a few basic programs from magazines we traded it in on a 48K 800 with a real keyboard and an 810 disk drive.
@@jameshenry8015 lucky that you could trade it in so quickly. The 800 was certainly a better machine.
First Macintosh, now Atari. Does your blasphemy know no bounds?! Before my time, but that Atari looks so cool. A great example of ‘retro futurism’.
The scary part is I actually own like four of the USA version of the ZX Spectrum, too! Honestly have never powered one on, though
Glueing the Atari 800 back together like the leg lamp. “Not A Finger!”
Oh I got plenty of glue on my fingers gluing that 800 back together!
My dad only ever wanted to play one game on my Dragon 32 "Defense" which was a Missile Command game. He had the highest score by far when I sold that system and got my Amiga, that was the last time I ever played a game with my dad.
Those memory of times spent with our fathers are real treasures. He and I would watch "X Files" together too, and those were special times.
Hi. Thom from FujiNet here. Thanks for the shout-out at 9:00 :)
One of these days I will be doing a full Fujinet review
Thanks Doug for the visit to the Darkside. I was never tempted to swap my Commodore for an Atari. Cheers
I have no regrets going the Commodore route, but I would not have kicked an Atari 800 out of bed in 1981 either...
My mom told me, some time ago, that my dad used to stay up till 2am practicing on the VCS in order to keep up with, and occasionally beat, me in my favorite games. I find myself doing the same thing with my kid in minecraft. :)
That is just hilarious! Maybe my dad snuck into the Atari room and practiced on Combat!
My son and I often play games with each other - both new and old. We are running through "Super Mario Brothers Wonder" on the Switch right now
@@10MARC My little one LOVES that game. I haven't got a chance to play it, yet. The house favorite over here is Splatoon (1, 2, and 3). If you haven't played it yet you absolutely should.
I got one recently and noticed how clear the RF is too thankGod, as the composite mods are a pain (as you have to dismantle a lot). Got a demodulator to get perfect composite out to a small lcd projector for Star Raiders on our rec room wall!
I agree! I hooked up my Atari 800 tonight, and I was not really any more impressed with the composite than I was with the RF. I have researched the mods, and it sounds like they don't pull the audio out, and those have to be done separately.
I swear that membrane keyboard was cast in the fiery pits of Mt. Doom, but I might be approaching hyperbolic with that statement.
I certainly would not want to write a paper on that thing!
I bought an Atari 400 back in 1981 , upgraded it from 16k to 48k , got a 1050 disc drive, bought the Action cart and programmed the game Midas Maze on it. sure the keyboard was kinda of a pain, but trust me, you get used to it after a while.
Now as for build quality , in 1984 , I walked into an electronics store during a bad thunderstorm, lightning hit the powerlines, all the lights in the store went out, and you could smell the burnt electronics.
The C64 on display there, the Vic 20 and the apple II's all died,
but the Atari 400 and 800 both booted right back up. so I played a game of Star Raiders on the 800. because that was the game on display there.
guess that aluminum case really was a good idea.
and I still have the 400 48k, and it still works today.
by the way, great video, thanks for doin the 400 justice.
An Amiga guy who actually appreciates its true Atari heritage? WHAT?!?😮
Scary, huh! A lot of us Amiga guys have great respect for our Atari 8 bit heritage. Jay Miner and crew were true visionaries.
Given the hardware designer connections, it's as if Atari and Commodore switched engineering brains during the Tramiel transition.
It does almost feel like that!
A lot of good information here. Great job!!
For repairing the 800 case, I highly recommend the superglue+baking soda method. Use only glue in the crack, and then behind (inside the case) use both together. The baking soda adds bulk and will reinforce it a lot. Works great! There are how-to's here on youtube that show how to combine them.
There is Asteroids Arcade for the A8's that emulates the arcade machine which is of course, nearly arcade perfect. Came out around 2014 iirc.
For a proper SID vs POKEY comparison, include Star Wars (arcade 3D-ish one) and how the C64 version sounds like a (cheap?) synthesizer instead of how the arcade machine's music sounds. While SID is a much better synthesizer purposed chip, poor developer implementation meant POKEY was frequently (not always) better in various games. Or alternatively, software developed originally on the A8's often meant developers porting to C64 did not match the original vision or talent (the levity of Spy vs Spy 1's music for example). Love hearing SID when developers have skill.... R Hubard and others as great examples. Hubard's POKEY tunes are also amazing. Compare the sound effects in Blue Max for both. One chip is for sound effects, the other is a synthesizer.
POKEY does more than sound. Also handles SIO, paddle controllers and keyboard input.
To compete with the VIC20, it's too bad they didn't initially release a $250 A8 with no keyboard, all on one board, no SIO, one joyport, etc etc.. That was a big miss and C= ate Atari's lunch.
The original Centipede is okay but I don't like how the bugs animate so chunkily. Millipede fixes that (but it's spiders are maybe even worse in chunky movement). There are several different Centipede variants, each quite different. I think there's also an arcade emulated one for A8. If you get a trackball, press CTRL-T to play either game with that!
The arcade Joust also uses POKEY as well so the A8 vers sounds best. =)
There is pacman arcade (released 2014+) that plays great. Skywriter was cool. Never seen that before! Yes some XE carts will work on a 48K 400/800 machine because they are 32K carts (Blue Max should).
Was also an A500 user.. Got one in 87. ST was not for me but did seem slick at first.
Yes please do more A8 vids!
Great information! Thanks for sharing! The repair on my Atari 800 went OK. I did use the baking soda method. The cracks are still a bit obvious, but it's not too bad. I have plans to sand it down a bit and paint it a nice Metallic Blue - I would not do that to a pristine case, but IMHO a broken case is fair game to have fun with
Watching this after they announced a 400 mini I'm excited for it
Oh yes! The Mini version will be neat indeed! I will be ordering that for sure.
I have a 48K 800 that still works. Got an SIO to USB so it can play my old favorite games right off of a PC's hard drive. I still have my 1983 Atari 300 baud modem kicking around here somewhere. I always thought it serendipitous that Atari joysticks worked with Amigas. My favorite joystick is still a cheap cut down Atari stick with just the nub of the rubber boot on the tip for my thumb.
Very nice. I like the idea of it interfacing right with your PC via USB. Neat! The Fujinet is awesome since it also adds WiFi right to the system and lets you get online just like back in the day.
You got me with that coughing bit. Haha.
Tee hee hee!
As a kid i had the 2600 and a calico vision with c64, but i always lusted after all the atari computers. i guess ill collect them one day lol.
Never too late to get one! Look on "shopgoodwill" - they almost always have one or two
I had a couple 2600's before getting a 400 and then trading it in on an 800. After the 810 disk drive died I was too busy partying, chasing girls and hot rodding before getting an Amiga 500 a few years later. I eventually turned computers into a business, first with a multi-line Amiga BBS (got up to 20 phone lines with it) and later a full blown ISP business. I never would have gotten into it all without the Ataris.
The build quality of the 400 looks much better than the Vic for sure but dang that keyboard puts me right off, the 800 on the other hand looks a very nice machine :)
I have nothing but positive things to say about the build quality! These things are tanks! If you approach it 90% as a games machine and maybe an inexpensive path into the world of computers, I get their keyboard philosophy. You could not have convinced me of this in 1981, though!
Doug !!! I was similar, ATARI VCS 79, ZX81 in 81, Spectrum 82 - then ATARI 800XL in 85 (mate had C64) then from 86 all AMIGA AMIGA (A1000) - but another mate had Amiga and ST. Those were the glory days.
Good times for sure! Computers were much more fun in the 80's
Good video... glad I subscribed ☺️... A friend of mine had a 520 STfm and I nearly bought one until I saw (and heard) the Amiga 500 that another couple of friend had lol 😆
You made the right choice buying the Amiga. I will admit that the ST was better than the Mac computer of the same generation, and vastly better than the PC's. Amiga was at an entirely different level, though.
I used to tell people that Macs were overpriced, underprivileged Amigas.
I like the Atari 8-bit computers a lot. The OS is much better than that on the Commodore 8-bit systems and they are all compatible unlike many of the Commodore 8-bit computers.
One complaint is the video RAM is limited to 8 KB. I would have liked to see a 16 KB limit to allow 8 colors per screen or scan-line instead of four. I would have also liked to have seen an 80 column mode that supported color and player/missile graphics. Today's solution is the VBXL or VBXE but few people have them.
I would also have liked to have seen the VIC-II with a 256 color palette from which to choose the 16 colors.
I suspect some of the limitations are simply because the machines came out so early. They were incredible for 1979! I think it is just because I am so used to Commodores OS, I find it easier to use than Atari.
@@10MARC I find Atari DOS a lot easier to use than Commodore DOS due to the menu.
"In a couple of (Jay) Miner ways, its better than the Commodore 64".
Hidden context. :D
Oh for sure!
Wait, how did I slip through a portal into an alternate universe where this channel is talking about Atari computers????? ;) #MultiverseOfMadness
Those darn supercolliders at CERN have opened up so many wormholes and black holes that these darn alternate realities are showing up everywhere.
The Atari 400/800 use the same Pokey sound chip as the arcade version of Centipede.
Absolutely! The Pokey made its way into a bunch of arcade machines. It was quite versatile.
Welcome to the Atari Kid Retrocast!
I need to get an "Atari Kid" shirt made in honor of my father
I went the Vic20, C=64, Amiga, route, and have no regrets. They always seemed to be so much more expensive than the Commodore products. My favourite game on the machines of that era (C-64), was Dig Dug, and Pacman. I still have all my 8 bit machines, including a 64 K Sinclair ZX-81, and a C-128. I made lots of modifications to both the Vic20, and the C-64 with the dual MSD drive, but the C-64 was the favourite machine by far. They are not on display, but that is the intention.
Did you ever type in those machine language programs from Gazette? They worked quite well.
Yes, those machine language programs were neat in Computes Gazette - with the built in error checker! Unfortunately they never taught you actual machine language.
Make sure you try the brand new version of Dig Dug for the C64 that came out a few months back. I did a video on it. It is about as arcade perfect as the C64 can get, and fixes ALL of the issues with the original version.
@@10MARC So true, I just meant in terms of using an example of the speed and efficiency of machine language code compared to basic.
I did spend a fair amount of time programming and used Jim Butterfield's book of machine language programming as my reference manual. I really enjoyed that aspect of programming, but let my brain cells rot after switching to the Amiga. My day job didn't allow me enough time to start all over again. On the Amiga, I did a lot of programming with Comal, an excellent language, far superior to basic.
I had a 400 and upgraded it to 48K and a full keyboard in the first year of ownership.
FujiNet DOES plug into SIO, but the CX85 Keypad DOES NOT! It plugs into the joystick port! That should be pretty obvious looking at its cord.
Really? Never plugged it in to anything, actually. I keep it in my front room in my "museum" cabinet. I will check it - I must have just assumed it was SIO. If I can plug it into any joystick port that makes it super useful!
@@10MARC Interestingly, the XEP80 80-column box that Atari sold also plugs into the joystick port.
Bruh! Ataris are great. They are different to be sure and comparing the ST to the Amiga is a waste of time as they both excel in their respective areas, but glad to see you showcasing other computers. But mark my words, you will eventually review the MSX2 machines and find a new religion there.
So far I have only been interested in things important to my youth. I have no doubt the MSX2 is incredible... Just no desire for it. Same thing for the NES and SNES. They were never a thing for me as a kid, so I don't bother with them now. The 8 bit Ataris appeal to me because of my Atari VCS love, and the fact that I wanted one as a kid
I had a VIC-20, Commodore 64 and then a few Amigas growing up. I wouldn't have been able to get into computing without the low priced VIC-20. If price hadn't been an issue, the Atari 400 and 800 were definitely better systems than the VIC-20 and pretty comparable with the Commodore 64. Of course, the Atari 400/800 are the older siblings of the Amigas, both systems being similarly designed by Jay Miner with the Ataris having the ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY custom chips, and the Amiga having the similar AGNUS, Denise and Paula custom chips. Today I consider myself a Jay Miner fan more than a Commodore or Atari fan. The Commodore 8-bit computers and the Atari 16/32-bit computers don't interest me.
All good points. My parents could not afford the Atari, but the VIC-20 was doable. I could live with the limitations
Alley Cat. No.1 Atari 8bit game!
That is a really good game. I need to play more of it. It is quite a trip!
@@10MARC Alas!
The irony is the Amiga is the Atari 8 Bit descendant, and the ST is the Commodore 64 descendant... But regardless you would have moved to Apple or PC or early Linux after the temporary, fools gold, advances of the Amiga. Unfortunately Atari and Amiga would both become irrelevant when their respective companies could not longer move forward and compete.
While it is true that Atari ST was made by much the same team as the C64, it's a real shame they brought so little of the C64 capabilities over. The darn 8 bit had great audio, sprites and buttery smooth scrolling and the poor Atari ST had none of those.
I am an old fart I remember the Atari 8 Bit computers but only knew one person that had one and then he got an ST. Funny thing is I have no memory of seeing them in stores and where I did see them most was on McDonald Promotions as one of the prizes. My family was poor if you wanted to play games you played board or card games. Only computer I got to play with back in 1977 was a DEC PDP system at school which is where I got to play with (shhh) Punch Cards, key punch machines which would make membranes look & feel wicked awesome. Yea to have anything back then in the house to play on would of been awesome. Got to play with more computers in college but getting time on a terminal required the patience of JOB and that's where I learned to type fast. Yes get your programs written, entered saved on the hard drive and 8" Floppies. I talk too much but blame that on COBOL.
I bought an Atari 800 in 1980. Prior to that I only used my high school’s Ohio Scientific Challenger II. Started college fall of 1980, and used a PDP-11/34A there.
I remember the Atari 8 bits in stores. They sometimes just had "Memo Pad" running so you could not do anything but type. At least on the VIC-20 and C64 we could create "Hello World" on all the display machines.
That Ohio Scientific was a neat machine. It seems like they were experimenting to see what would work!
Ahh, it's the Atari 5200 with a keyboard!
It would have been nice if they made the 5200 more compatible with the 8 bits. Imagine being able to use virtually all of the Atari 8 bit games on the 5200. It would have increased the library from 60+ games to thousands of potential games.
@@10MARCI have heard that there was a big rivalry internally between the console team and the home computer team. They intentionally designed the hardware to not fit because they didn't want to become obsolete.
@@johnathanstevens8436 I think you are right.
When I was a kid my neighbor had an ATR 8000 which can interface with 8-inch floppy drives. Do you have a working ATR 8000?
With a ~1.8 MHz CPU it was certainly more powerful than the C64 in the CPU area but in graphics and sound it wasn't as good. But with that extra CPU power (basically 2x) they leveraged that to close the gap. I own an XEGS and one day I'm going to get some updates to it.
I agree the CPU is faster than the C64, but I am not sure just how much that made a difference. It will be interesting to see how the versions of BASIC stand up against each other. The 256 color palette is awesome on the Atari is great - you can see it in some of the games for sure.
@@10MARC One big difference with the BASIC implementations is that Atari BASIC was *much* faster at string-handling and much slow with simple integer math.
Personally, I always liked the Atari graphics system much more than the C64, but it was different enough that ports from other computers didn't turn out well. The reverse, of course, was true with things that started out on Atari systems, like the Lucasfilm games and the Alternate Reality series. The CPU speed was of less benefit than you would expect, due to the DMA system on the A8 line.
@@IcyTorment Good to know. I know that Atari had better and easier sound and graphics commands, too.
While the CPU was faster, the ANTIC/GTIA steal more CPU cycles than the VIC-II in the C64. Text mode doesn't steal too many but higher resolution and color modes steal more CPU cycles than lower resolution and color modes. Worse case, I think the CPU effectively runs between 1.3 and 1.44 MHz.
The TED in the Commodore 16 and Plus/4 also steal quite a few CPU cycles so while they also run at 1.79 MHz, the effective CPU speed is also between 1.3 and 1.4 MHz.