BDS Movement Debate | Oxford Union
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2015
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In this debate, hosted by Oxford Union president Charles Vaughan, Professor Alan Dershowitz (proposition) goes head-to-head with Peter Tatchell (opposition) to debate the motion: Is the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement (BDS) against Israel wrong.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY: The Oxford Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. Since 1823, the Union has been promoting debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.
Why did the spokesman for the BDS showed a map that ended in 2005? well, because in 2005 Israel removed it's settlements from GAZA strip, boy did that blowed up in our faces.
They got even more settlements in the west bank now
Should I mention thatost of things he showen prior to 2005 were also quite false?
15:04 that is such a shame the par that he showed that incorrect map🤦🤦
The first one from the left is not even real. I have now idea who chose that but it is 100% fake. It was never a real territory, you can look it up.
The second one is actually the map of the UN resolution of the Jewish and arab states. That resolution passed with an international vote, the majority vote fore the resolution but it didn't end up at the end cause the arab states around were against the resolution so they started a war against the small and fresh Jewish state, that war is named "the independents war".
The third map shows the territories of the land after the independents war that the arab states started and lost. But non of the black parts are belong to the Palestinians, as the first professor mentioned, the west bank was under Jordanian occupation and gaza was under Egyptian occupation. That was until the six day war where the arab nations decided to destroy the Jewish state and they lost again.
The last map is also incorrect. It shows almost all the west bank under Israeli territory and some of gaza too. it is (shockingly) fake too.
The settlements in the west bank/ judea and Samaria (where the whole Jewish Coulter was created) are taking a smaller percentage of the land than it was represented in the debate.not only that but in the map it is shown as if there are parts of an Israeli territory in gaza too. That is fake too. *there are no more jews in gaza*
Israel retreated from gaza for another failed agreement with the Palestinians that refused peace continuously.
Israel took out Every single jew from gaza and left it to be controlled 100% of its territory by the Palestinian authority. Sadly hamas took over gaza and made it a terror state right after israel left the territory.
This only shows one of so many lies that are being told to so many people in the sake of being against the only stabled and democratic state in the middle east.
I guess when you don't have good reasons for your opinion, than you start making up stories and pretending as if they ever happened. What a shame 😕
@@janko7245 Yeah well, We saw what happrned to Gaza and it's ain't pretty....
Giving more lands to either a weak government that barely does anything aside from making propaganda or a freaking terrorist organisation that wish to destroy you, tell me which of these would you rather to have
Lol they didn’t “remove” the settlements without mass international pressure and heavy financial compensation, and then just recommitted to the settlements shortly afterwards. It was a situation where israel temporarily offered a concession (against something illegal in international law) and then just went back to violating it the next day anyway.
I'd very much like to get the results of the vote/exit poll/audience enumeration on these videos, if possible.
It just feels incomplete without them.
+Artsificial www.oxford-union.org/news/debate_results
+Artsificial: Against BDS 137 - For BDS 101
+Christopher Field
is there an offical recored for it?
+Christopher Field What I would be interested to see is the votes for and against prior to the debate being held to see if it changed opinion.
Deshowitz mopped the floor with this guy who looked like he couldn't wait for it to be over.
www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/11/01/dershowitz-wins-oxford-union-debate-boycott-israel-movement/
+Doin thanks for that. Try Gallup Polls.
Sadly, they can't do these debates anymore because people get disruptive and start screaming.
No wonder Barghouti chickened out and refused to debate Dershowitz.
G.C.
Too bad
I would have loved to watch Professor Dershowitz debating a malevolent moron like Barghouti.
It's a fundamental right of ALL sovereign nations to boycott, divest and sanction countries who behave in ways WE don't agree with. Hence sanctions against Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Qatar, Venezuela, Yemen, North Korea, and Russia. All under sanctions bc of their GOV's actions NOT bc we dislike their ppl OR think they shouldn't be a country.
Interesting how the aforementioned nations have all been sanctioned; some more than a few times by certain western powers (primarily the United States), but never has any sanction materialized or perhaps even has been officially proposed against that state of Israel by an influential nation (that I'm aware of), even though the nation of Israel has violated U.N resolutions time and again with regard to the Palestinians and its settlement policies.
Are you referring to the same UN that had elected Gaddafi to chair the Human Rights Commission in 2006? There is literally a permanent line item (#7) to discuss Israel at every meeting. They only discuss ten items per meeting and no other country is called out individually like this or is a permanent target of the council. The previous chairs of the U.N. recognized this hypocrisy and vowed to get rid of it but were unable because there is over 60 Muslim countries represented at the U.N. and during any given make up of the security Council there will be enough Muslim Nations alone to pass any resolution they want... and this does not include the openly anti Semitic countries who are known for human rights violations like Venezuela and Cuba who are normal fixture on the council. You can find video online of the Council being asked to take a moment of silence to commemorate those that died in the Holocaust and many countries didn't stand...but applauded after when Cuba condemned the request after.
Most first world western countries recognize that Israel is being treated unfairly by the U.N. and called out in ways that countries like aforementioned, China, Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran and many others never are...there resolutions are therefore not taken seriously.
Oh yeah... and let's not forget the time that Saudi Arabia was elected to be on the council for women's rights!!!
@@Lunatic4Bizcas Immoral UN resolutions should indeed be violated. See Jesse Goldfinger's comment below. It goes into more detail about the UN.
Of course people have the right to boycott, divest, and sanction anyone they want. People have the right to support BDS. That is not the point. The point is that BDS is harmful to both Jews and Palestinians. People have the right to support BDS, but they are foolish for doing so.
@@jessegoldfinger5645 Spot on.
I thought this was a BDSM video.....
Great debate. There CAN be dialogue.
Not in America there can't.
"For me it(BDS) is a last resort" says it all about the justice system of UN.
@Elliot Mason The very reason that this had to be created is the testament to the efficacy of the justice system when it comes to the Palestinian struggle which has lasted for nearly 75 years. What about those crops that were destroyed by the Israeli government, the crops that constituted a significant amount of income for the Palestinians? What about the hindering of the Palestinian economy? BDS is a peaceful means to protesting the funding that the mentioned companies have partaken in to facilitate the settlement and military oppression being subjected on the Palestinian civilians. It is a justified and safe cause that targets specific companies for a justified cause - to stop funding of appartheid and military violence on innocent civilians.
@@shememe496 You wrote > What crops did the Israeli government destroy? Please explain. A reference or link to a news article would be helpful.
You wrote > BDS caused the closing of the Soda Stream factory in the West Bank, thus depriving Palestinians of jobs. BDS has hindered the Palestinian economy.
Stuff
@@shememe496 palestinian struggle? They have been given plenty of chances for peace but they dont want it. It is Israel's land and has been jewish land for thousands of years. Palestinians aren't palestine. They are mainly Jordanian and are trying to claim other religions holy land. Imagine this happening in Mecca
@@aj-zt8br no jews were sent to europe. They were exiled from Israel and this is what people forget. I am making perfect sense so it’s not my fault you cannot understand. This is holy land to jews and every country has a religious origin.
It used to be called “Philistine” (Palestine). This was an area of land where it is currently located, another name for aggressors and travellers. Israel (or judea and sameria) is rightfully back
This seemed like a pretty one sided debate. Dershowitz was so much better informed on the issues that Tatchell often had to respond in a general, emotive, way instead of factually.
Ppl who do the devils work are cunning smart Masters of deception
Result of vote:
Anti-BDS: 137
BDS: 101
deeply saddening
No you can't undo the mistakes of the past but you can avoid people who run with stupid ideas until they are forcibly cornered and stopped. before they continue to ruin everything for everyone else.
The US cannot be in charge of the negotiation between Israel and the Palestinians because it is not a neutral. It is like having a boxing referee who sleeps with one of the two competing boxers.
Cripes man Dershawitz is like 80 something and razor sharp, just incredible. The moderator didn't frame the argument as a motion so what does it mean if the motion was carried (which it was)?
It means Dershowitz won.
Nobody is denying that Palestine existed. Of course Palestine existed but it wasn’t an Arab country (or state) but rather it was a geographic region, controlled under the British mandate, and who named it “Palestine”. The name “Palestine” was officially revived by the British after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1920 when the British civil administration - the British Mandate of Palestine - was in control until 1948. The residents of Palestine held British Passports for Palestine and were referred to as “Palestinians” whether Jews or Arabs.
The word “Palestine” (or “Palestinian”) is purely a geographical term which was originally used by the Greeks, the Romans and other peoples to refer to this region - i.e. the Holy Land, or the Land of Israel - in Biblical times.
People seem to think that because someone calls himself a “Palestinian” he originates from an Arab country called Palestine. They seem to think that because the maps show Palestine before 1948 therefore this land belonged to the Arabs! Palestine never belonged to the Arabs. Palestine was Ottoman, was British, but it never was Arab! In fact, the British gave 75% of British Palestine to the Arabs which eventually became Jordan.
In 1948 the Arabs turned down the “Partition Plan” which offered the Arabs yet another Arab state alongside the new Jewish state. The Arabs refused it and instead, they waged a war against the new Jewish state with the intention of destroying it. Then Jordan took and illegally occupied the West Bank.
In 1967, in a war of self-defense, Israel then took and occupied the West Bank when it was already OCCUPIED by Jordan in the first place!
The West Bank was part of an area called “Palestine” before 1948, but it never belonged to the Arabs. In fact Jordan stole the West Bank in 1948 and gave the West Bank residents Jordanian citizenship. The Arabs in the West Bank identified as Jordanians, not Palestinians.
In 1988, however, the King of Jordan abandoned his Jordanian citizens in the West Bank and handed their fate over to the Palestine Liberation Organization, the PLO terrorist organization.
Since then there have been peace talks, intifadas, suicide bombings and more peace talks to find a solution to this area.
Just because the Palestinian Authority wants to name their future state “Palestine” (with its capital Jerusalem) this does not mean that this land belonged to them beforehand. Neither does it mean that their heritage goes back thousands of years to ancient Palestine. It is just a play on words! but it wasn’t an Arab country (or state) but rather it was a geographic region, controlled under the British mandate, and who named it “Palestine”. The name “Palestine” was officially revived by the British after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1920 when the British civil administration - the British Mandate of Palestine - was in control until 1948. The residents of Palestine held British Passports for Palestine and were referred to as “Palestinians” whether Jews or Arabs.
The word “Palestine” (or “Palestinian”) is purely a geographical term which was originally used by the Greeks, the Romans and other peoples to refer to this region - i.e. the Holy Land, or the Land of Israel - in Biblical times.
People seem to think that because someone calls himself a “Palestinian” he originates from an Arab country called Palestine. They seem to think that because the maps show Palestine before 1948 therefore this land belonged to the Arabs! Palestine never belonged to the Arabs. Palestine was Ottoman, was British, but it never was Arab! In fact, the British gave 75% of British Palestine to the Arabs which eventually became Jordan.
In 1948 the Arabs turned down the “Partition Plan” which offered the Arabs yet another Arab state alongside the new Jewish state. The Arabs refused it and instead, they waged a war against the new Jewish state with the intention of destroying it. Then Jordan took and illegally occupied the West Bank.
In 1967, in a war of self-defense, Israel then took and occupied the West Bank when it was already OCCUPIED by Jordan in the first place!
The West Bank was part of an area called “Palestine” before 1948, but it never belonged to the Arabs. In fact Jordan stole the West Bank in 1948 and gave the West Bank residents Jordanian citizenship. The Arabs in the West Bank identified as Jordanians, not Palestinians.
In 1988, however, the King of Jordan abandoned his Jordanian citizens in the West Bank and handed their fate over to the Palestine Liberation Organization, the PLO terrorist organization.
Since then there have been peace talks, intifadas, suicide bombings and more peace talks to find a solution to this area.
Just because the Palestinian Authority wants to name their future state “Palestine” (with its capital Jerusalem) this does not mean that this land belonged to them beforehand. Neither does it mean that their heritage goes back thousands of years to ancient Palestine. It is just a play on words!
Your logic collapses by saying Palestine was Ottoman and then British. This is a colonialist worldview - you may use it, of course, but it does nothing to reduce confrontation, it entrenches the conflict. True, Palestine never was a national unit, but that does not mean a random outsider can come and declare that this "land" may be taken over by immigrants from now on. Most of the "third world" were not nations during the first half of the 20th century, nation and nationalism are deeply European concepts. As long as Israel and its supporters don't admit to the colonial nature of its foundation, the moral base for its acceptance by arabs, especially palestinian arabs, is not given. And yes, Israel or Palestine played a very important role in giving jewish refugees from Europe and even from the islamic world a safe refuge after the trauma of the Holocaust and the international backlash of an-Nakba. History cannot be undone, so Israel by now has a right to exist, but pseudo scientific logic cannot whitewash the highly chauvinistic, historic mistake made by its foundation.
Jews didn't "take over" the land (how exactly would they have accomplished that - they had no army, or any "arms" for that matter). the fact is they *bought* the land from Arab landlords. What's colonial about that?
BTW, to be a "colonizer", one has to be "colonizing" on behalf of another country. Pray tell on behalf of what other country were the Jews who came to Palestine and bought the land "colonizing"?
I have no idea what being "authorized" to start a country means, so I can't answer your question
If university people are intelligent and educated,they would know that there has never been an arab only Palestinbe, Israel was renamed Palestine by the Romans in 135 A/D. this arab Palestine was created in the 1960s by the arabs.
The name is not the issue. It's stealing land and committing genocide that is the problem.
@@briangriffin8106 NO Land has be stolen and NO genocide,the arabs do not belong in the old Palestine, and palestine was not a country, a territory .
@@berniefynn6623 Lies.
@@briangriffin8106 READ history, dickhead not listen to the arabs.
"There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent (valley of Jezreel, Galilea); not for thirty miles in either direction... One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee... Nazareth is forlorn... Jericho lies a mouldering ruin... Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent, mournful expanse... a desolation... We never saw a human being on the whole route... Hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil had almost deserted the country... Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes... desolate and unlovely...".
- Mark Twain, "The Innocents Abroad", 1867 -
Remember the boycotts on Germany, how did they start. They were definitely effective.
ruclips.net/video/jRXuOeugOWU/видео.html
The poor Palestinians were more screwed by their own leaderships. BDS won't help them. - A bystanders (if Gazans were Chinese population, it might have become a Singapore already.
That's the biggest problem that nobody talks about. Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, all screwed over the Palestinians. PA and Hamas is corrupt and using West aid money to get rich. Hamas is using civilians as Palestinians as meat shields. But nobody is talking about that. Why?
Incredible. Any debate that I've ever watched on this subject just goes around in circles interminably LOL. Absurd.
Anyone slse here after the latest war between the two? 2021
There is no possibility of a war between an occupied territory and the people that occupy it. That's like saying that the people of the Warsaw Ghetto were at war with their oppressors when they rose up.
Dershowitz did well against these amateurs but he got his soul shagged when he went against Noam Chomsky
"when he went against Noam Chomsky."
Noam Chomsky said that Pearl Harbor was really a good thing in the end.
He also said the Soviet Union was paradise.
Please don't promote your incompetent academic heroes in this forum.
You are all a bunch of "Chump-skys"!
Tnn Dll lol nice joke old timer you 95 or something lol chump-skys. Where did he say that pearl harbor was a good thing i want u find me this, if your telling the truth that is. Show me where he says pearl harbor was a good thing.
He said this land Israelis owned before 3000 year. In these 3000 years others was farming and building . If you came back after 100 year not 3000 years naturally they will reject you. And will not recognise your own this land or as citizens. It's natural even 300 year is to much. And no human low will give you. Only force low will give you. That is what is going today between Arabic and Israelis.
The land was not given to the Jews. Much of that land was purchased by the Jewish National Fund. And some of it was won by Israel after it was attacked by Arab armies in 1948 and 1967.
Tatchell openly admits that the Palestinians made a mistake by not accepting the peace proposal offered by the Israelis in 2007 yet he insists that Israel has cannot be trusted in reaching a peace treaty without the pressure of the BDS. Am I the only one able to see this?
Simon yyy He addresses this point by saying that the current Israeli government is not offering anything similar to 2007 and the current Palestinians can't therefore choose a similar deal
Dershowitz represents his case better
And also not accepting many other proposals while keep insisting on the fantasy of removing Israel altogether.
Take a shot every time the term "BDS" is used.
My big complaint here is that they do not publish the results of the vote. Like telling a story and depriving the reader of its end. I've heard that Dershowitz won, but the numbers would be interesting to learn.
@@djdjdk888s Other way around.
Hi from the future, Derswoickz is on Epstein's sexy list, oh and the U.S is making laws agains the bds - that means it's working!!
For a change both speakers seemed to actually be listening to each other and responding to points being raised. I don't know that I know any more about the rights or wrongs of the situation though...?
That's because it's a proper debate about a difficult subject. Watching most media it seems that most issues are black and white; brexit you have leave or remain, American politics is democrat or republican etc. We also normally have debates devolving to little more than slanging matches with personal insults. The reality is of course that most problems are far more complex than that, and an intelligent person can accept opposing views, even if they don't necessarily agree with them.
Peter you embraced yourself so deeply...
Can this old man tell where his great great grandparents lived 2000 years before
Where is the discussion about Geneva Code agreements!?
Ofcourse you want to meet at the negotiation table without any preconditions when all the preconditions are in your favor.
So after the debate both participants goes back the their respective gated neighborhood.
Tatchell lives in a small flat in a deprived area of London where he regularly has bricks thrown through his window. Being a human rights activist is hard to monetize and is not lucrative. Dershowitz on the other hand... well defending Trump will earn you a few quid
Being a human rights activist typically gets you killed by a western government. Being a shill for an apartheid nation is pretty lucrative though
@@fozzyozzy1030 that is one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard in my entire life. This is what I love about the regressive movement. You can't make sensible or reasonable criticism, you have to go over the top and act like your some super vulnerable victim whose fighting evil corporatists MEGA smear Nazis, on literally EvErY issue.
@@liamgaul You get paid a lucrative sum to be a public speaker and broadcaster and for an apparent "human rights activist" he did an awful lot of supporting the IRA.
@@andrewwells6323 israel is extremely easy to compare to the apartheid in south africa. Both are colonized peoples being subjugated and treated as second class citizens in their nations of birth. Arab citizens of israel dont have the same rights in a supposed democracy that is undeniable.
No one said nazis. And western governments do kill human rights activists look at MLK malcoml x or many other labor or civil rights leaders targeted by intelligence agencies.
Bottom line: businesses do not have the right to refuse service to consumers because of who they are. On the other hand, consumers have a First Amendment right to withhold their patronage from businesses in order to express their political beliefs.
According to the first ammendment there is no law that prohibits a bussiness boycotting a consumer, it is part of the first ammendment.
The First Amendment is American, not British. Personally I think it's up to you who you buy from and sell to.
Mhm now why don't they remove the strict economic sanctions they have forced on countries they don't agree with politically (like mine, syria) if they actually believe in that?
Why dont you talk of Catalonia and Spain ? I d love to see a debate !
Dershowtiz is a skillful advocate sometimes. He knows the rhetorical questions to pose. But the lack of response on the accusation of singling out Israel was quite shameful. Which other country has been able to completely subjugate its adversaries like Israel, while dragging out a conflict for half a century? Well, there are some historical cases which are reminiscent of such power asymmetries, namely Western colonial projects. Compared to those situations, yes Israel adheres much more to human rights. It would be politically impossible, however, not to mention unnecessary, to carry on in a similar fashion. You see that when Israel bombs what basically is the world's largest open air prison every now and then (which is quite a unique crime in modern times), the world actually reacts (you can also see that when Israel does engage in those full scale attacks, it does not differ much from the violations of, say, Saudi airstrikes, which target hospitals, ambulances and other civilian objects). So, it seems counterproductive to the cause of settling the West Bank, if Israel were to carry on like a traditional colonial power. It is nonetheless a shame that the other case of colonialism in MENA, Western Sahara, is getting so little attention, especially in Europe where we're thriving off of that occupation.
You have completely failed to mention that Israel only bombs schools and hospitals that are used as bases to fire rockets from, or buildings to stash rockets in. Also, it is disingenuous to accuse Israel of dragging out the conflict for half a century when it is the Palestinians who have said no to every offer of a Palestinian State ever since 1937. Even when the original offer was somewhere around 75/25 in favour of Arabs, they still rejected it. If anyone has dragged it out, it is the Palestinians and their refusal to accept a state. The real Nakba was not accepting the partition, would we be talking about the conflict today if they'd accepted a 50/50 split of the land? I don't think we would.
You are completely lying about the schools and hospitals being bombed.
UNRWA reported on rockets found in VACATED schools. There was never
anything serious reported on those schools set up as shelters, which
were bombed. Same with the hospitals. There were some reports that there
had been a launch from a location near the Al-Shifa hospital, but
outside its premises. The hospital was attacked, condemned by the MSF,
which had a team working inside the hospital. El-Wafa hospital was
destroyed, without any evidence of military activity from its premises.
There are overwhelming evidence of numerous war crimes. For instance,
Israel attacked Red Cross rescue personal and ambulances even after they
had gotten the OK from Israel to go into certain places. So please stop
spreading lies based on propaganda.
About the history. Before 1967, its true Palestinians did not accept any
partitioning of Palestine. Even if that was already a reality on the
ground, they refused to accept it. What they had sought ever since WWI
was independence for their land. Instead they got a mandate, and
policies that they did not accept forced upon them. So they started
resisting. Then Britain and subsequently the UN proposed partition
plans. They refused to accept it. It is true that had they accepted the
plan of 1947, that 2/3 of the population would settle for 45% of the
land, they would have had much more than anything they can wish for now
and the conflict would probably not be what it is today.
Only after 1967, they started to realize that their goal of a one-state
solution was lost. So they eventually accepted what the international
community had firmly recognized: that Israel does not have any title to
any part of the West Bank (incl. East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip.
Today, Israel refuses to accept this. So again, yes, if they accept the
Israeli terms, meaning independence in Gaza and in some Bantustans on
the West Bank (including severe limitations of their
sovereignty-airspace, security etc) the conflict will be over. But they
refuse this injustice. The difference now is that they have
international law and the international community on their side,
recognizing the right to this land.
31:30 wow
?
Just because it's a democracy hence it's righteous by default? Lots of democratic countries treat their natives and minor poorly. United States, Canada, Australia, Israel, the list goes on and on. Not to mention their colonial past.
Jews have a right to peace and a right to land they can call their home. There is abundant Arab land surrounding Israel ,if every Arab country also donated a peace of their own land to the Palestinians and Israel had to do likewise then that result in a justified sacrifice by all who border existing Palestinian land. Syrian refugees have mostly escaped to Europe because their surrounding Musli neighbors did not open their hearts and accept them it stands to reason that Muslim countries are sympathetic towards conflict between Arab and Jew but not towards really creating a peaceful solution which demands some form of self sacrifice.
Donate your house to a Jewish family and then get back to me
@15:00 It's absolutely astonishing that Tatchell would show that map. The second map from the left is the two-state option the Arabs rejected in 1947! The Arabs also rejected a two-state option in 1938 that closely resembled the map on he left.
Fact remains you don’t belong there! It’s land you’ve stolen you dimwit
So the map is all b******* then question mark or no Israel has grown 15 or 20 times its size and 7 decades just because everyone else around them are bad guys. Oh I see my bad
@@jaymirza1 oh I mean when was the last time we set and un inspectors to see the supposed non-existent nuclear stockpile in Israel? That's right it'll never happen . boy they must be really nice people. We're in a rush to go find a mortar in Iraq though in Afghanistan. You see any Israelis contesting that action on the behalf of United States? No you didn't
@@jaymirza1 Jews don’t belong in Judea?
Where do they belong if not in the place where Judaism was created
what was the result ?
Pete Tachell doesn't seem to live in the world .He keeps on making false equivalencies between Palestine and South Africa, and has some utopian vision of what the BDS movement actually is. He keeps on going on about the 'global' BDS movement outside Palestine and Israel as though they are the ones that actually are relevant.Principles are all well and good but it's leaders are the ones that have the real power and influence.
Debaters were clearly unmatched.
Thanks this is worth watching I'll probably watch it again one day.
Was Jeffrey Epstein at the debate with a couple of 12 yr olds.Straight out of the sewer
Tatchell got dismantled. UTTETLY dismantled.
It would be nice if the Oxford Union posted the results of the vote in the description.
Dershowitz won the debate. ( He stated this on another interview)
Judah Hyman Thanks
Dersh is a prevaricator extraordinaire
Dave Fisher OK, I'll bite...
It has been a while since I heard the debate. Can you provide an example with a time stamp of Dershowitz prevaricating?
@@polipsych4214 no response lol.
Here we are five years on and things are worse than ever. :/
No, they are better than ever. Recently, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Morocco, and the Sudan made peace with Israel. This is progress. It is not perfect, but it is progress.
@@AB-ct3kj coward nations
when the student showing the falseness of this palestine-israel map, which is actually a lie, was stopped within short time, I was a bit dissapointed, that even Dershowitz didn't respond to that -
Someone knows how the students finally voted?
im 2 years late but they narrowly(?) voted against BDS. Oxford seems to be biased against Israel in much of their debates, but Dershowitz totally beat on his opponent.
Just a word to the wise, Israel is a place where a church is located, and it does not belong to any jew at all.
it belongs to the world thank you GOD bless you
Occupation? What is an occupation? Surely it is stealing of land. If one nation declares war, then it must weigh the possibility of losing land.
Palestinians didnt wage the 1967 war, Israel attackrd Egypt and Syria first
@@MS-ph6gu strike first because the army of egypt set up tanks in order to attack israel
@@elias2059 the prime minister himself back in 1967 said that they were not gonna end up attacking , They mobilized because Israel were actively attacked Palestinians and Jordanians , and Lebanese people, They mobilized cause of Israeli aggression and terror , and they attacked because they initiated the terror
@@MS-ph6gu yes the idf had to attacked the nations that tried to destroy israel for its independence from 1947, which prove that even where there wasn't any settlement in jueda and samaria the arabs never accepted the U&N solution for 2 states.
@@elias2059 A: Zionist terrorist militias started the aggression pre 1947 against Arabs , militias like irgun haganah and lehi. No shit they wont establish a 2 state solution the offer proposed was rigid and biased towards the minority while the majority were gonna get fucked over nd not get political rights, do you realize how stupid it would be if Palestinians agreed ? + it was gonna displace alot of Palestinians and take over their profitable lands. If jews can accept something like this then comr talk to me, it was inhumane treatment and based on colonial ideologies. Read a book or two it might help
Tatchell is the winner. The truth n moral are always winning in the mind of all moral humans no matter in what tune it is delivered.
Did he just basically say that I don't want to talk about what the founders of this movement really say I just want to talk about something else even though the issue is the movement and what they're trying to do oh really...
Unfortunately, the students at Oxford only hear the progressive point of view vs the progressive point of view. It would of been interesting to hear a more right winger debate with Dershowitz position as well.
Yaakov Mark
🇮🇱🇮🇱בשנה הבאה בירושלים הבנויה
Yaakov Mark Yeah, a Right Wing Nationalist like perhaps Mark Collett vs Dershowitz
yes let machmud abbas debate Netanjahu lul
Peter Titchal got clobbered by Dershowitz over willingness to negotiate and yet he couldn't see it. He got clobbered again when he tried to compare Israel with South Africa. Dershowitz called on personal information directly from the source. Who speaks more authoritatively?
the guy made an analogy about us thinking that our house would be faced with someone coming and claiming that they are the owners. And this did happened in Romania where the original owners of the property came back and guess what THE Residents had to LEAVE and let the rightful owner take control of its property. Thousands of houses in Romania were given back to their original owners.
When?
Were the Romanian owners away from their houses 2000 years, lived in another continent and came back with the Bible as their house Titles? There's no comparison in the world to the Israeli claim. I just don't see how anyone can support what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Free Palestine
@Awil Muhammad no one has claim on no one in this reality, the strong take it all
Israel is a strong country who try to be fair with their neighbors. egypt want nothing with palestine,
Jorden won't nothing with palestine
but you with your nonsense want that Israel that they really have nothing with palestinian, religion or culture, and you want them to have something with Palestinian, bro Dubble standard,
The Bible is freaking bulshit
Jewish live in Israel because the power of surviving and now third tech development countrie in the world they are freaking empire.and i will tell tou what If you keep and be stubborn and keep live by your double standards,
as you wish
Meanwhile, 4 Arab countries normalize their reality with Israel
Soon, more Arab countries
And Palestinians will live with nothing but a dick sadly on their ends
Thats Palestinian move to make peace with Israel
Israel give more and enough to tell
Middle east they want to live in peace with their neighbors, more and enough
Peace and love ❤️
In the united states if you don't claim your land back after 35 years, it's no longer yours, and becomes the legitimate property of the squatters. This makes sense. Land claims in perpetuity just result in the kind of endless war we now see in Palestine. Pretty much every country would instantly face war. Another 100 Years War in Europe, warlords all over Asia, etc
Its like someone going to your house, robbing you then asking you( the victim) to compromise with them and give them concessions.
That's no equal . According to the bible the history the archeology and the uk government in 1917 the land considered as the Jewish homeland
@@jordank25 the bible are you serious????
@@jordank25 UK has no right to give land that does not belong to them.
Wow just amazing.. both the sides spoke soo well.
not really the BDS guy wiped the floor with him
@@e.k874 No he didn't. I doubt you even watched the debate.
@@andrewwells6323 i did lmao i watched it twice. It's always funny to see people try to defend racist or apartheid states
@@e.k874 so rather than substantiate your original statement you decided on thumbing up your own comment and making false accusations of apartheid.
You don’t know what apartheid is and a “state” is not racist, a person is racist. I can tell you’re not particularly bright, so it’s not like your opinion on this matters.
@@andrewwells6323 aparthied state? What right do the palestinians with Israeli citizenship don't have?
Alan Dershowits: 137 votes
Peter Tatchel: 101 votes
Alan Dershowits wins the debate!
Avi Pharmd when the crowd is leaning to one side, it isn't hard to see how the vote is going to be.
Flash Gordan ......you said in the world court and I say Alan Deshowits will tottaly win in the GOD Court.
Avi Pharmd - Thank you for the score
Peter Tatchel didn’t address anything that Alan Dershowitz said really! He didn’t even seem to comprehend that his comparison from South Africa and Israel was preposterous. Alam Dershowitz is a truth speaker. It’s very disappointing that someone with the obvious compassion that Peter Tatchel has, doesn’t seem to have it in the way that extends to the small tiny country of the Jewish people. The only safe place for such a small minority of people . The holocaust took away 1/3 of the world Jewish population. The tragedy could repeat if Israel is ever lost.
I live in Bolivia. We lost our coastline when gritty politicians decided to unilaterally increase taxes to English mining Companies with HQ in Chile. Hence, Chile took over the coastline through a sad and expeditious war. The last 140 years, Bolivian armies, teachers, musicians, writers, governmental authorities, etc. have used incendiary speeches against Chile. I know by heart the lyrics of two anthems that every 6 year old Bolivian sings and by signing swears as a civil duty to "recover our sea, recover our coastline" and learn the name of every major coastal city to fight for. A severe sense of betrayal and humiliation and thirst of vengeance is still being instilled into little children and young men and women in Bolivia.
Despite all the war-like rhetoric and symbolisms I grew up with, I haven't heard of any Bolivian "heroic" group of Martyrs that built tunnels or secretly trespassed Bolivian-Chilean borders with the intention to kill Chilean people. There are Bolivians living in Chile and Chileans living in Bolivia. All our key problems are blamed on our no-sea condition. It's almost a pagan religion, where a foundational theft defines from then on our life scope. It's the religion of blaming others.
By analogy, I infer that the level of desperation in the Palestinian side must be socially engineered by Pan-Arab war strategists. They propagate martyrdom as a community value and as a socially acceptable and viable institutional path to carry out brutal vengeance as legitimate celebrations and acts of Justice.
This is one of thr most insightful comments I've ever read regarding this topic. I also wasn't aware of this historical incident between Bolivia and Chile.
a very well made analogy. thank you!
Thanks for this comment. It really puts things in perspective. War is business, and business is good.
FINAL SCORE: DERSHOWITZ 137, BDS 101
. I would vote for DERSHOWITZ as well.
I love the way Prof Dershowitz just gets slap bang straight into the arguments , none of any imploring rhetoric and debate tactics just instant consecutive arguments one after the other
Palestine is not for sale
@@chaplinlondon505 how can it be for sale, when it doesn't exist.
@@heliosarcady2434
What do u mean it doesn't exist ?palestine
belongs to the palestinian you call it promess land, i call it stolen land,by zionits racist criminels
@@chaplinlondon505 Palestinians are arabs. fake nation
Otherwise known as a Gish gallop. Many of Dershowitz's claims can be challenged but deconstructing all of them is not possible. Blurting out specious claims is a very effective debating tactic.
He show a map with territories shrinking but forgot to mention that there is 2M Arab Israelis in 122 Arab cities inside Israel so they part of the white color
Why was the video cut before we heard the applause for support for BDS. Very disappointing snd very surprising,
If only Israel would be as commited to peace, secularism and coexistence as Hamas is ...
You know throught the history of israel we have offered peace six times
hamas is a terrorist organization that murders innocent people...
ruclips.net/video/8EDW88CBo-8/видео.html couldn't explain it better.
And Hamas launches rockets at as from several different locations in gaza every intifada before we bomb the location we warn the residents to get out of the house school or where ever Hamas puts the rocket launchers... now tell me which other country does that?
Sigh... just come to Israel you clearly know nothing come see it with your eyes
Show us the proof of your outlandish comments, Sara T
The onus is on you to backup your claims, not on me to confirm them. Until you can, no one will believe them.
BTW, I am not a "self-radicalized" (whatever that means) extremist Christian. Heck, I'm not even a Christian. What led you to believe that I was?
summery:
israel: why you pick on us?
bds: we put pressure so you'll want to negotiate peace
israel: we want to negotiate peace
bds: ....
israel: as a matter of fact, since you came along the Palestinians think they can get stuff without negotiations
bds: ...
israel: the official bds leader state specifically they don't want peace
bds: ...
israel: we're even willing to make a very generous offer
bds: ...
israel: I think bds just want to delegitimize israel
bds: we just want you to negotiate peace
The stated aim of the BDS founder, Omar Barghouti, is to destroy Israel.
This is really good information.... thank you
Would have liked to know the results. Could that be added to the show notes?
are you stupid
Support BDS won. About 130 something vs. about 110.
This debate took place, it seems, at least six years ago. Food prices in my area have been riding. We are still responding to the complex of COVID-19. If either position is significantly changed, how significant would that be, in itself?
I recently viewed three young idf soldiers taking pot shots across the fence if they hit a palisinien .man women or child.they simply found it humours and were full of laughter! !the dead and injured at the fence at the moment I couldn't tell you but its pretty much constant ! Its a heart rendering fact .
Bs
51:19 Legent Derschowitz destroys Tatchell like boom!
East-Jerusalem is part of the State of Israel. There is no valid Arab claim on Jerusalem, as much as there is no justification for the Arab-occupation of Hebron, as well a Jewish city !
Why not try BDS on Saudi Arabia China or Russia first, since it will work so well to solve the injustices? The answer: They're too big. Let's pick on the little guy.
Is that a fair reason to target Israel and let the biggest violators free? As Alan said prosecute the worst violators first, and then you can work on harming Israel for it's own violations. That would be fair.
Neil Sumner , They do much worse than apartheid,; their enemies are executed. Ha, ... ha. Apartheid for them is an improvement.
No apartheid in Saudi Arabia? Where is their Jewish community, then? Can Israelis apply for citizenship? You must be pretty biased not to notice that.
Neil Sumner, You're forgetting how this started. The point is prosecute the biggest violators first. Paying more attention to one country is the definition of a double standard. I'm glad you can admire Einstein though; I do as well. Some people try to obscure his contributions.
Neil Sumner, Also worthy of notice, is that according to genuine Islam, Jews (and I don't know what the rule is with Christians and Buddhists) must pay a fee in order to maintain their right to practice their religion. While in comparison to medieval European policy at the time Islam seems much better, nevertheless, it is apartheid built into the religion. And the thing with Islam is that you cannot separate "mosque and state". This is why Iran is a known as a 'Theocracy'. Religion and rule of law are inseparable.
I will try to check up the letter you're referring to because it's probably interesting. Thanks!
He reads from the paper lmao
BDS movement is the most legal, peaceful, democratic way of compelling Israeli tyrant to do a just full solution of the problem. BDS must and will be flourishing.
Bds is wrong
It's almost like Mr 'I keept my pants on' is arguing against freedom of speech and personal freedoms.
They could have got someone better than Tatchel to represent BDS e.g. Abbey Martin.
i have watched Abby Martin several times ,she brings many falsehoods to all her arguments. when you Google many things she speaks of ,they come up as falsehoods .this has been proven . She never actually brings facts, more speculation .
What would king Solomon have recommended when two parties were arguing over one item? perhaps an equal division straight down the middle?
Solomon knew that the true mother wouldn't want her child cut in half.
That was precisely the solution given by the UN in 1947. The Jews accepted it. The Arabs rejected it, and attacked the Jews.
@@AB-ct3kj Lies.
@@briangriffin8106 Any idiot can say "Lies" without backing it up with facts and logic. You have not backed up your claim with either facts or logic. You are the liar here.
@@AB-ct3kj I know the truth. It's you who are spreading lies.
"לא חשוב מה יגידו הגויים. חשוב מה יעשו היהודים."
דוד בן גוריון.
Translation:
It doesn't matter what the gentiles say. The only thing that matter is what the Jews will do."
David Ben Gurion
The purple tie must have been such a delicious dish served to Dershowitz. The fact that the founder of the BDS movement refused to debate him - tells everything.
Israel did nine 11 & if and when the yanks learn this there will be hell to pay..the 5 dancing Israelis
@@pavelusa3423 wut?
Pavel Usa
Those were Arabs
@BFK_weiser N/A yayayay if one can't accept facts one has to scream lies =) maybe you should question your worldview instead of trying to save it with conspiracy theories & with discredeting others..
And even if israel would expand its settelments, which it is not m8 =)
the BDS would still be a terrorist made organization, directed at the killing and extermination of jewish israelis & the israeli nation...
So what does it even matter to the topic of the debate?
nothing =)
ty
Why would Israel recognize all that Palestine wants as a free and independent state then have to pay for schools hospitals etc ? If Palestine is a free and independent state then they should be paying for their own services
I cam here with an open mind but when Dershowitz said boycotting Israel is illegal I closed it. I can boycott whoever I choose and that's not open for debate. I can organize with other people so that we can collectively boycott whoever we choose- that's also not open for debate. I won't even listen to anyone so disgustingly bold in their attempts to neutralize the very rights of those with opposing views.
Actually the strongest and the most solid point in the whole of this is the email from Omar Barghouti. He was absolutely right and should have been the one who won the debate 😂
Alan Dershowitz? Oxford Union couldn't have invited someone else?
Why would they invite someone else? Alan is a renowned attorney and professor, and he is know for his pro-Israel advocacy.
m r lolita express is biased and disgusted ,sad for Harvard law school
Did deshowitz go on the lolita express? Damn I didn't know that
What are you talking about? If you are making an accusation, you should back it up with evidence. Otherwise, you are just a liar.
south african here. Israelis, dont give an inch.
and who was that indian guy with a dark blue shirt just behind that syrian guy who was asking a question from around 30 min to 33
One elephant in the room that was not mention was the demographics. Arafat & Co. wanted to establish demographic facts. Thus they told their people to have as many children as possible. You cannot blame Israel for that.
E.g. the water supply for the Palestinians was negotiated in Oslo (Oslo Accords). However, the population has doubled since then. As the amount of water was an absolute number the water per person had to be halved. This is entirely the fault of the Palestinian leadership. They even excel in the poverty of their people to build even more pressure via public opinion. No people has received so much money as the Palestinians in the last decades from foreign aid. Where has the money gone? Corruption, weapons, terror tunnels etc.
In 2014 Jordan proposed a peace deal on behalf of Palestine, this peace included Isreali withdrawal from Palestinian territories, limited right of return for Palestinians and Jerusalem being the shared capital of both state but Isreal and the US rejected this deal so anyone who says that Palestinians aren't willling negotiate are simply wrong
Your comment demonstrates that Palestinians are indeed not willing to negotiate. The 2014 proposal you mentioned was made by Jordan, not the Palestinian Authority.
@@AB-ct3kj never had a third party act on your behalf in something you *want* done?
I think both sides presented an excellent case. But I was convinced by Professor Dershowitz's argument. He made excellent points.
*It's funny that Qatar, which is the main funder of BDS, is in the middle of one of the biggest boycotts in the world.*
Stop lying 🤥
I have finally found someone better at roasting than ricegum, the Jew on the left
@1:00:10, the Brit believes that their should be an equality of outcome in the amount of casualties on Israel. Does he want Israel to get rid of their Iron Dome so that he can be satisfied???
A good idea, and the same is true of the demand from Israel to withdraw from the occupation as a condition for peace negotiations and not as a result of them.
No he wants Israel to stop colonising Palestinian land by building illegal settlements. Give Palestinian 22% of their land then a peace would be
@@joba62100 The Palestinians NEVER had a country..they are from Egypt.
@@hadihasan1903 The Palestinians NEVER had a original country.
@@David-kk4dr 130 countries out of 200 countries today had no national country before. Because as u might know, world was governed by empires and the nationalism emerged only in the 19th century.
Why is a leader of a different country negotiating for another country? There is something sketchy about that for me.
“Nothing about us without us”
i'm disgusted they didn't show the result of the votation unlike other debates they show the polls on the audience . . . poorly done . . . sucks
What occupation, when has Palestinians ruled Israel. Before Israel that is from 1948 and before who ruled??? There is definitely a proof that Jews legally bought the land that they owned, and lived there before being sent to exile.
1:10 Does the host announce this rule as a formality or because he knows that there are anti-Israel/BDS supporters in the crowd who need to be warned beforehand?
I think its just a formality in every debate with the intent to keep the debate vocal and also not to distract the representatives of both sides of the issue. However, certain hot/controversial topics like this one are most specifically favored by this rule, since people want to expone their opinions visually too.
@@garykarlik8503 I can't say I've watched other Oxford debates so it might be a formality, but BDS supporters are notorious for shouting down speakers and disrupting events.
Doin that’s true, they often tend to bring posters and signs that also sometimes include antisemitic/offensive remarks towards israel.
@@garykarlik8503 Shouting speakers down is what people who can't present an arguement or know that their arguement is emotional rather than logical, do to mask that fact.
Doin completely agree
didn't take him long to mention the holocaust to score points, Its kind of obvious a posh and elite university would vote against it, he also qoutes the luntz document at every turn
Dershowitz’s line of defense is extremely weak. To say that “Israel’s human rights violations aren’t the worst in the world, so therefore this entire debate is anti-Jewish” is an argument that you make when you do not have truth to stand on.
He never said anything about the Oxford debate itself being antisemitic
Had this been a boxing match, the referee would have ended it quickly and mercifully - with Tatchell having been TKO'ed at least 3 times.
Yet the Bigoted, Defamatory and Sanctimonious Movement blathers on.
Dershowitz clearly won this debate. To be fair, Tatchell really stood no chance since it's almost impossible to justify the BDS successfully. Ironically (as Dershowitz stated), the BDS hurts the Palestinians more than anything and ends up hindering any prospect for progress. It seems clear, I think, that the BDS has failed and that other avenues should be explored if we want to make a serious attempt towards peace.
+Zoharargov Its only zionists that say bds is immoral and that's only because its gaining momentum and is working to punish israel for its immoral behaviour. Btw at the peace talks last year(during the israli massacre) Palestine weren't even invited to the fucking peace talks! Also the zionist got far less applause......
+Uk Gamer lol
+Zoharargov ... lol
Why do you listen to a dishonest fraud and liar who has been exposed over and over like Alan Dershowitz?
+Ricardo Ruiz Because, thank goodness, most people in a first world country, such as the one where this debate is being held, have received a proper and decent education. Unlike you :) Though I do not blame you. Most people in Brazil will agree with you... But then again they have elected an illiterate communist as President of the Republic.
the first things that come out of his mouth are so hypocritical,
How can Muslims claim heritage to Israelite prophets and also deny that Jews lived in Israel long before the 1948 establishment?