FYI, The test switch does this: first click disables landing calls, the second click inhibits the doors from opening, while maintaining disabled landing calls. All this in normal operation. also, with cartop inspection, if you hold the "run" or "slow run" buttons, and let go of the traveling direction, the lift wil gradually come to a stop instead of an abrupt brake.
I agree with what you said at the end of the video. I feel KCE is not as good as LCE and that it looks as though they tried to revamp the LCE and make it “all advanced and high tech” but they don’t take into account what was already good about LCE. Lifts with LCE run really well and efficiently and they feel like the Kone designers tried to make a lift controller with good quality components and a reliable OS running on it. If the same people who designed the LCE was to make a KCE, they would make it so much better than what KCE is. Also the metal beams attached to the motor and cables looks very thin and flimsy. I understand this is only a MonoSpace 500 which is the cheaper model for low rise applications but after watching this video I’m kinda starting to feel Kone is starting to cheapen out a bit now unfortunately.
"taKONE LCEildKONE KCE" at the end. Good idea for Kone to add an LED strip for the emergency light, much better and brighter than the little white light in the inspection control. Is there a socket on the car top as there used to be one on the inspection control?
@TecStuff In the old LCE inspection box, the socket outlets do not have residual-current circuit breaker. It just share the power from the car lighting circuit.
Looks like it now runs “Windows for lifts”😁. In the 90’s it was a running gag to have windows run on anything. The menu system doesn’t look particularly user-friendly, even for a service tech. Time is money I reckon that menu could be designed better to make servicing easier. That’s a bit disappointing from Kone, some generic logics seem to have better menu’s. Still curious what kind platform this board runs on.
Many modern logics like Kone or Mitsubishi either dont use touchscreen panels or so. They have their own stuff and own unique ways to control it. This is actually more professional than what generics do. These logics are probably way more reliable than any TVC or Lester logic that ever existed
The right way to get into the menu is with the KONE MiniConsole App and an adapter cable. The menu on the KCECPU isn't designed to programm anything it's just for the fault codes.
I guess this is powering the new Kone DX classes, right? TBH the engineer's experience (bar wait times) seems to have improved over LCE, especially those tests which are likely to be executed during inspections. Interestingly the LCE-powered ReSolve 200 (for mods) is still around.
HELLO FRIEND I AM AN ITALIAN TECHNICIAN. IN ITALY THE KCE ARE BLOCKED - CLOSED. ONLY KONE TECHNICIANS HAVE A MINI-CONSOLE / TEST TOOL TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THE PARAMETERS. EVEN IS IT SO YOU ?? CAN YOU HELP ME ??? MY EMAIL: paolodangelo76@gmail.com.
@@gaetanodangelo3147 Unfortunately, I am not a lift engineer nor do I have any experience with KCE, so I can't help you. Beno would be marginally more helpful.
I have to agree, that new inspection control is very cheap compared the the old one. Ok, you can move it, but I feel like that's not a very necessary feature. The old one being immovable made it a lot better quality and more sturdy. Even most generic cartop controls look better quality than that.
Hi Beno, yesterday i "killed" my elevator. I tried to test the inspection at the top and bottom, but sadly the top didnt worked, after reseting to normal the kce stays at error L1109. I cant find a solution. Hope you have some idea. Btw many thanks for your videos. 😊
Keep up the great work guys! Our client has a KONE elevator and we want to connect a fire signal to the elevator over i/o module from Siemens fire panel, were can I find this input. Thank you in advance for yor cooperation
Which lift logic does it have? TMS, LCE, KCE or some of the shelf generic logic? Fire mode on lifts works differently in different countries. In the UK the fire switch on the lift is "fire service mode" and the mode that is entered from the fire alarm activating is "fire recall". Somtimes fire recall is known as phase 1 and fire service is known as phase 2. The UK is different to the USA as the fire switch on the lift sends it to phase 1 and a second switch inside the lift is used for phase 2. In the UK the fire switch on the lift goes straight to phase 2 and the fire alarm triggering only sets to phase 1. On Kone LCE you need to set the fire exit floor. This is menu 1 option 59. setting to 0 disables it. Setting it to a number sets the floor ID for the fire exit. Note that the floor ID is different to the floor name. The floor ID starts at 1 from the lowest floor and counts up. Also note that large gaps between floor are given an ID aswell. So exit the menu shown and the current floor ID will be displayed. Then send the lift to the fire exit floor, now you will know the floor ID of it. Also, set menu 1 option 60 to the same floor as option 59. Then set option 61 to 6 to make the lift obey UK fire regulation. Then set option 62 to 1 to enable fire mode. You may need to try different settings for option 62 if it doesn't work. I am a bit confused on this option. Then after changing any options the lift needs rebooting. Also, you will only be able to acsess menus if the lift has done less that 10,000 jerneys. If it has done more then you need to ask Kone to help (expensive) or get some lift company to jailbreak the logic or add Kone's proprietary KNX card. To physically wire the fire alarm to the lift logic you need to find the circuit for this. On most MRLs this will be in the shaft if only the repeater board is in the cabinet. I do not know exactly where the fire alarm is wired in but I would hope that it is labled. There is not data connection from the fire alarm to the lift. It is a simple circuit that puts the lift into fire mode when voltage is present. If the fire alarm is an adressable system, then I would guess you would need a component that decodes the address data back into a simple circuit which is then wired into the lift, but this is beyond my knowledge.
You need an option board (lceopt). There is some turn switches and jumper on board to make it serve for fire alarm input. After installing board you have to active some parametrs from menu. For access menu you need diagnostic tool.. This operation not for every person. You will need help from some one experienced with KONE.
Most newer KONE lifts in Singapore installed after 2013 are all made in China, but LCE is still the mainstream for most lifts in southeast Asia with 4th gen ecodiscs The KONEs made in China use a Schindler voiceover adapted from the Schindler 5400AP from 2010, those from Europe use the original KONE voiceover
Its comparible to building something in Visual Studio with .NET Framework where the linker adds a whole bunch of extra code, and on top of an RTO operating system with even more instructions to your executable as opposed to a simple ASM program to do the same thing. Something that can be done efficiently with under 5KB of code suddenly becomes massive like over 1MB. I bet there are even JAVA controlled lifts out there, where every time the JVM needs to be called.
In assembly (including other languages as long as they are complied down to assembly with no additional crap) how large would you say the the code could be for this sort of Kone lift. The operating system has the following features (these features are all running at the same time).... -Manage indicators and voice over serial data -Manage the lift doors -Show a simple coded menu on the screen -Send data via serial to a computer -Manage the shaft bar and taco. The lift's position is known by a taco, but there are also shaft bars that verify the position and keep it in sync with there is any motor slippage. -Send data to the VF drive. This is not a simple VF drive which needs a few commands, this lift actively manages its speed and has a smooth controlled stop, so the VF requires a stream of data and calculations to manage the controlled movement. -Run secondary safety checks. Safety systems on lifts are managed by physical relays that shut down the lift if things go wrong. The secondary safety system is software that checks these relays function as expected to detect when a relay fails in the on position. Kone's system has a lot more features than the most basic lift, but this can still be done as a real time system.
@@benolifts Well based on specifications, the Kone LCE Lifts has an EEPROM Chip with the firmware, the size of that chip is arranged as 512*8 or 4096KB/4MB with another chip with 256KB for NVRAM. I would guess that the actual binaries burnt into the EEPROM would be slightly less than 4MB. It is beautifully coded with very low delays in response times. I would assume that in the KCE the image sizes would be larger with more complexity and overhead. The bootup delay is a huge hint. I wonder if the image is being decompressed at boot. In an age where engineers think it is a good idea to replace well written well optimised C coded programs, with high overhead, slow and less reliable webapps and a simple website eats up 1GB of memory we are going downhill fast. I roughly compare it with how the old cartridge based game consoles or mobile phones were instant on whereas modern ones has to go thru an entire boot process with several hundreds of processes running in the background. I would be interested to learn more about the architecture behind this new lift controller, like how the hardware and software implementations differ from the LCE. A block diagram would be nice.
@@schweizerd6303 But in all fairness, I think you could even make a ASIC chip that is specifically made for the lift operations, forget assembly or something. now we are talking transistors which do specfiic high level function of the lift? I mean, isn't this what relay lifts are? I think modern lifts like you said do use stuff like EEPROM kinda flashable chips with assembly based code, dont get me wrong they both are reliable. But Lester controles or TVC use CPU's and shit I believe which, CAN be unreliable if they were written on python ROFL.
The lift wont enter service when bypassed. So lift engineers should no longer need to bypass using other dodgy methods and then forgetting about it and letting it enter service bypassed. All modern lifts should shut down if safety doesn't disconnect at a floor (a software check to see if safety is bypassed), but on my experiments, Kones do not always do this.
Wish Kone was this good here in the USA, unfortunately their products in the US are atrociously unreliable especially in their first few months or years of service. The interiors look like a straight tin can and are boring. I personally think the American Schindler 3300 and 5500 MRLs are much better, even with their slight unreliability and imperfections which usually only lasts their first few weeks as opposed to Kone elevators being almost constantly broken and malfunctioning. Kone REALLY needs to step up their game here in the US or I think the 3300 and the 5500 are going to dominate the MRL market here.
Finnish Elevators 06 that is true, however I think that it’s overused, boring and ugly. Especially on Kones. I personally think that interior design should just be used for parking structures and service elevators. Not in malls or hotels.
HELLO FRIEND I AM AN ITALIAN TECHNICIAN. IN ITALY THE KCE ARE BLOCKED - CLOSED. ONLY KONE TECHNICIANS HAVE A MINI-CONSOLE / TEST TOOL TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THE PARAMETERS. EVEN IS IT SO YOU ?? CAN YOU HELP ME ??? MY EMAIL: paolodangelo76@gmail.com.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
FYI, The test switch does this: first click disables landing calls, the second click inhibits the doors from opening, while maintaining disabled landing calls. All this in normal operation.
also, with cartop inspection, if you hold the "run" or "slow run" buttons, and let go of the traveling direction, the lift wil gradually come to a stop instead of an abrupt brake.
So nice to hear Jordan speaking so clearly at last. I love his accent. I'm not taking the piss. I could listen to him talk for hours.
not me.
I agree with what you said at the end of the video. I feel KCE is not as good as LCE and that it looks as though they tried to revamp the LCE and make it “all advanced and high tech” but they don’t take into account what was already good about LCE. Lifts with LCE run really well and efficiently and they feel like the Kone designers tried to make a lift controller with good quality components and a reliable OS running on it. If the same people who designed the LCE was to make a KCE, they would make it so much better than what KCE is. Also the metal beams attached to the motor and cables looks very thin and flimsy. I understand this is only a MonoSpace 500 which is the cheaper model for low rise applications but after watching this video I’m kinda starting to feel Kone is starting to cheapen out a bit now unfortunately.
"taKONE LCEildKONE KCE" at the end.
Good idea for Kone to add an LED strip for the emergency light, much better and brighter than the little white light in the inspection control. Is there a socket on the car top as there used to be one on the inspection control?
@TecStuff In the old LCE inspection box, the socket outlets do not have residual-current circuit breaker. It just share the power from the car lighting circuit.
To be honest I would rather have LCE because even though KCE looks a lot more modern nothing can beat LCE
Except drive faults
KCE IS SO MUCH BETTER TO WORK ON ..
LCE rules
Looks like it now runs “Windows for lifts”😁. In the 90’s it was a running gag to have windows run on anything. The menu system doesn’t look particularly user-friendly, even for a service tech. Time is money I reckon that menu could be designed better to make servicing easier. That’s a bit disappointing from Kone, some generic logics seem to have better menu’s. Still curious what kind platform this board runs on.
Windows 8, lift edition.
Noone will use the KMI menus to navigate or change thing since there is a connection to your phone and an app.
Many modern logics like Kone or Mitsubishi either dont use touchscreen panels or so. They have their own stuff and own unique ways to control it. This is actually more professional than what generics do. These logics are probably way more reliable than any TVC or Lester logic that ever existed
The right way to get into the menu is with the KONE MiniConsole App and an adapter cable. The menu on the KCECPU isn't designed to programm anything it's just for the fault codes.
8:26 Perhaps the LEDs change into some condensed size which would be the size of 2 digits on that indicator if they were joined up.
only on newer matrix and it can condense the vertical way to display the special messages such as "Floor Locked"
I guess this is powering the new Kone DX classes, right? TBH the engineer's experience (bar wait times) seems to have improved over LCE, especially those tests which are likely to be executed during inspections.
Interestingly the LCE-powered ReSolve 200 (for mods) is still around.
HELLO FRIEND I AM AN ITALIAN TECHNICIAN.
IN ITALY THE KCE ARE BLOCKED - CLOSED.
ONLY KONE TECHNICIANS HAVE A MINI-CONSOLE / TEST TOOL TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THE PARAMETERS.
EVEN IS IT SO YOU ??
CAN YOU HELP ME ???
MY EMAIL: paolodangelo76@gmail.com.
@@gaetanodangelo3147 Unfortunately, I am not a lift engineer nor do I have any experience with KCE, so I can't help you. Beno would be marginally more helpful.
With modern microcontrollers, C compilers and RTOSs you don't have to program in Assembly to get good realtime control
No one programs in Assembly anymore afaik, They do in C only. Microcontrollers can do much more and can be reliable
When is that detailed look at LCE comming?
The buttons on the cabinet more like Hoist-way Access.
I have to agree, that new inspection control is very cheap compared the the old one. Ok, you can move it, but I feel like that's not a very necessary feature. The old one being immovable made it a lot better quality and more sturdy. Even most generic cartop controls look better quality than that.
Hi Beno, yesterday i "killed" my elevator. I tried to test the inspection at the top and bottom, but sadly the top didnt worked, after reseting to normal the kce stays at error L1109. I cant find a solution. Hope you have some idea. Btw many thanks for your videos. 😊
I hope the Detailed look at Kone LCE comes out soon
That inspection control.
is this KONE KCE electrification open protocol control or closed protocol control ?
It is a proprietary system, just like all lifts apart from generics
Keep up the great work guys!
Our client has a KONE elevator and we want to connect a fire signal to the elevator over i/o module from Siemens fire panel, were can I find this input. Thank you in advance for yor cooperation
Which lift logic does it have? TMS, LCE, KCE or some of the shelf generic logic? Fire mode on lifts works differently in different countries. In the UK the fire switch on the lift is "fire service mode" and the mode that is entered from the fire alarm activating is "fire recall". Somtimes fire recall is known as phase 1 and fire service is known as phase 2. The UK is different to the USA as the fire switch on the lift sends it to phase 1 and a second switch inside the lift is used for phase 2. In the UK the fire switch on the lift goes straight to phase 2 and the fire alarm triggering only sets to phase 1.
On Kone LCE you need to set the fire exit floor. This is menu 1 option 59. setting to 0 disables it. Setting it to a number sets the floor ID for the fire exit. Note that the floor ID is different to the floor name. The floor ID starts at 1 from the lowest floor and counts up. Also note that large gaps between floor are given an ID aswell. So exit the menu shown and the current floor ID will be displayed. Then send the lift to the fire exit floor, now you will know the floor ID of it.
Also, set menu 1 option 60 to the same floor as option 59. Then set option 61 to 6 to make the lift obey UK fire regulation. Then set option 62 to 1 to enable fire mode. You may need to try different settings for option 62 if it doesn't work. I am a bit confused on this option. Then after changing any options the lift needs rebooting.
Also, you will only be able to acsess menus if the lift has done less that 10,000 jerneys. If it has done more then you need to ask Kone to help (expensive) or get some lift company to jailbreak the logic or add Kone's proprietary KNX card.
To physically wire the fire alarm to the lift logic you need to find the circuit for this. On most MRLs this will be in the shaft if only the repeater board is in the cabinet. I do not know exactly where the fire alarm is wired in but I would hope that it is labled. There is not data connection from the fire alarm to the lift. It is a simple circuit that puts the lift into fire mode when voltage is present. If the fire alarm is an adressable system, then I would guess you would need a component that decodes the address data back into a simple circuit which is then wired into the lift, but this is beyond my knowledge.
At ground floor you can take NO contact of toggle switch from lift fireman system
You need an option board (lceopt). There is some turn switches and jumper on board to make it serve for fire alarm input. After installing board you have to active some parametrs from menu. For access menu you need diagnostic tool.. This operation not for every person. You will need help from some one experienced with KONE.
Thank you guys, we solve it by connect our signal in series with the fireman key input. Many thanks.
Hey Austin this is guys
Hey xpnt this is Linux
Is this lift new or a modernisation?
new
@@benolifts Ok. It seems to be uncommon to have limited headroom in new installations.
This lift does not have limited headroom. The limited headroom version has folding fence and shaft door protection.
@@benolifts well what is with the sign on the cartop then?
For years our country has been trying to avoid using these models ..sigh .can't wait kce to phase out lol
Any documents related to the menus in the logic cabinet or on the cartop? Anyway, I might be able to get my hands on some kce related documents.
Wow they un-fixed the wobble problem.
Most newer KONE lifts in Singapore installed after 2013 are all made in China, but LCE is still the mainstream for most lifts in southeast Asia with 4th gen ecodiscs
The KONEs made in China use a Schindler voiceover adapted from the Schindler 5400AP from 2010, those from Europe use the original KONE voiceover
Hi, now i meet this controller in cambodia, i can't test inspection speed, can i get manual from you, please help me
Its comparible to building something in Visual Studio with .NET Framework where the linker adds a whole bunch of extra code, and on top of an RTO operating system with even more instructions to your executable as opposed to a simple ASM program to do the same thing. Something that can be done efficiently with under 5KB of code suddenly becomes massive like over 1MB. I bet there are even JAVA controlled lifts out there, where every time the JVM needs to be called.
In assembly (including other languages as long as they are complied down to assembly with no additional crap) how large would you say the the code could be for this sort of Kone lift.
The operating system has the following features (these features are all running at the same time)....
-Manage indicators and voice over serial data
-Manage the lift doors
-Show a simple coded menu on the screen
-Send data via serial to a computer
-Manage the shaft bar and taco. The lift's position is known by a taco, but there are also shaft bars that verify the position and keep it in sync with there is any motor slippage.
-Send data to the VF drive. This is not a simple VF drive which needs a few commands, this lift actively manages its speed and has a smooth controlled stop, so the VF requires a stream of data and calculations to manage the controlled movement.
-Run secondary safety checks. Safety systems on lifts are managed by physical relays that shut down the lift if things go wrong. The secondary safety system is software that checks these relays function as expected to detect when a relay fails in the on position.
Kone's system has a lot more features than the most basic lift, but this can still be done as a real time system.
@@benolifts Well based on specifications, the Kone LCE Lifts has an EEPROM Chip with the firmware, the size of that chip is arranged as 512*8 or 4096KB/4MB with another chip with 256KB for NVRAM. I would guess that the actual binaries burnt into the EEPROM would be slightly less than 4MB. It is beautifully coded with very low delays in response times. I would assume that in the KCE the image sizes would be larger with more complexity and overhead. The bootup delay is a huge hint. I wonder if the image is being decompressed at boot. In an age where engineers think it is a good idea to replace well written well optimised C coded programs, with high overhead, slow and less reliable webapps and a simple website eats up 1GB of memory we are going downhill fast. I roughly compare it with how the old cartridge based game consoles or mobile phones were instant on whereas modern ones has to go thru an entire boot process with several hundreds of processes running in the background. I would be interested to learn more about the architecture behind this new lift controller, like how the hardware and software implementations differ from the LCE. A block diagram would be nice.
@@schweizerd6303
future generic logics: running windows 10 with some weird interface to "GPIO" based pins
ah yes very very very reliable
@@schweizerd6303
But in all fairness, I think you could even make a ASIC chip that is specifically made for the lift operations, forget assembly or something. now we are talking transistors which do specfiic high level function of the lift? I mean, isn't this what relay lifts are? I think modern lifts like you said do use stuff like EEPROM kinda flashable chips with assembly based code, dont get me wrong they both are reliable. But Lester controles or TVC use CPU's and shit I believe which, CAN be unreliable if they were written on python ROFL.
@@hariranormal5584 no this is wrong, the windows 10 specs are far too heavy for running on cheap hardware. More like Linux or Android.
Nice one
Very interesting
I perfer the LCE Logic
KCE Stops using the VF on RDF! :O
Only if you authorize it. If you let go of buttons it stops using the brake.
WHAT IS WITH ALL THE BEEPING?
a regulation if shaft or cab door circuit bypass is enabled
Something is wrong with the audio in this video.
Just compile with -O2 and it will be fine
Hey somebody have the diagrams electric KCE?
Ano ba ang sabihin nila
I don't know how i feel about safety being bypassed that easaly.
The lift wont enter service when bypassed. So lift engineers should no longer need to bypass using other dodgy methods and then forgetting about it and letting it enter service bypassed. All modern lifts should shut down if safety doesn't disconnect at a floor (a software check to see if safety is bypassed), but on my experiments, Kones do not always do this.
@@benolifts Yeah that is true.
@@benolifts I remember this function can be enable/disable with a parameter.
Wish Kone was this good here in the USA, unfortunately their products in the US are atrociously unreliable especially in their first few months or years of service. The interiors look like a straight tin can and are boring. I personally think the American Schindler 3300 and 5500 MRLs are much better, even with their slight unreliability and imperfections which usually only lasts their first few weeks as opposed to Kone elevators being almost constantly broken and malfunctioning. Kone REALLY needs to step up their game here in the US or I think the 3300 and the 5500 are going to dominate the MRL market here.
The building owner chooses the interior, so you cant blame Kone on that.
Finnish Elevators 06 that is true, however I think that it’s overused, boring and ugly. Especially on Kones. I personally think that interior design should just be used for parking structures and service elevators. Not in malls or hotels.
HELLO FRIEND I AM AN ITALIAN TECHNICIAN.
IN ITALY THE KCE ARE BLOCKED - CLOSED.
ONLY KONE TECHNICIANS HAVE A MINI-CONSOLE / TEST TOOL TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL THE PARAMETERS.
EVEN IS IT SO YOU ??
CAN YOU HELP ME ???
MY EMAIL: paolodangelo76@gmail.com.
Kone probably didn’t use Kone LCE in the US. I wonder if they reuse the Montgomery logic and rebranded as Kone
I can hear the voice
Rename a floor to FUCK since you've got 4 characters and see if it works
Edit, Nevermind, 2 digit indicator
Its a 3 digit indicator
Kce has to beep at everything
100th
8th
First
Arriva
Do you even care about lifts and your not first idiot
@@LondonAndSouthEastTransport no
@@LondonAndSouthEastTransport you souldnt fucking swear
Park Ridge Transit