Is it a good idea or a bad idea to fill cavities with cement? This video is based on information that I learned from Dr. Alex Shigo and I believe it is correct.
Thanks, I was reading about this in an archived 1925 issue of national geographic and was curious if the practice was still in use today because it sounded quite bizarre and outdated, this video helped clear that up for me.
I know somebody who filled a hole on the side of a mulberry tree with silastic silicone gel. I don't know if it worked, but it did look as if the tree was being given the "proper" "medical" treatment! All bandaged up! lol That squirrel was very cute. I had a Walt Disney Little Golden Book about "Perri the Red Squirrel" when I was a kid... ;D
I would say that cement has a purpose to straighten the tree. Because the tree will break when it is hollow inside, rather than when it is filled with hard cement. For example, at the wind hollow tree will brake easier than one that is filled with a cement.
@@arboristBlairGlenn But WHY ??? My argument was that hollow tree will easier break on wind than natural healthy fulfilled tree. The solution is to fill the hollow wood with cement to reduce chance to break on strong winds. 😀
Sounds right but there have been studies that show the cement does not make the hollow trunk stronger. Wood flexes in the wind. Putting cement in a cavity does not make the wood any stronger. Study Shigo.
@@filipjovanovic good question. Dr. Alex Shigo did an extensive study on the effects of filling cavities. The conclusion was that while a cavity is bad, we can make it worse by trying to fill it or drill to drain them. Also, by filling a cavity, future inspections are hampered by the filler. So the consensus is, best to leave them be.
This actually kind of breaks my heart, because 20 years ago when my ex-wife and I bought our first house we were in love with three huge Norwegian maples in the back yard, one of which had a bad ant infestation in a major limb removal wound. The tree had pale leaves with black spots our second year there so I sprayed for ants and filled the hole with expanding foam. For ten years after that the tree seemed to improve greatly but now I fear I may have severely shortened it's life for the people enjoying it now.
@@arboristBlairGlenn This is a beautiful perspective. It relieves the heartache of regret (not just for trees, but for so many scenarios in life). Thank you for the video and for this comforting perspective.
Alcathous yea all the commentary and attention for that squirrel is dumb. Should have just remade the video . Telling me not to patch it and let it dry isn’t very helpful either.
So you've told us a lot about what you shouldn't do, don't fill it, don't drill a hole through to let the water out the bottom, what should you use for a cavity that is collecting water?
What about applying deck oil into those holes? If applied regularly it should protect the tree against moisture and also kill any insects. What do you think about it?
+Shahar Dror Any time I trim branches off I usually give them a couple/few coats of spray paint to seal them. Soaks in the end-grain a little and dries relatively quick leaving a protective coating until the tree grows over it and seals it the rest of the way. Works good on small branches like up to 2 inch diameter or so, as they generally grow over in a couple years time. Never tried it on anything much larger than that, but I'm guessing if you followed up on it with another coat every year or a couple times a year until it sealed itself it would be better than nothing. Once it starts to rot though there's not much you can do with it. But those are just MY thoughts on it.
I saw a guy fill a cavity of a silver maple with a soil slurry then he planted day lilies at the one opening. I'm going to guess that this was not good for the tree either.
I have seen your other videos on this topic of filling cavities with the cement of foam, but have never seen it in person. Was this method very popular in the California area? being that i am from washington state, i wonder if this is something that was started in California.
How's it g gonna dry if you leave it open? It'll keep filling with water. What are your ideas? I only see what not too do on this matter. Need a video on what to do.
According to Shigo and others who have studied this problem, it’s not an issue of what you can do to make it better but rather the negative results from filling the cavity. The consensus is this: by filling a void or cavity, you are no longer able to inspect it to make important safety decisions in the future. The sealant does nothing to improve things or slow down decay. It was Doctor Alex Shigo’s job to dissect thousands of trees and he shows his work in many excellent books. So, a cavity is bad but you can make it worse.
How would you prevent fungal infections or insect infestations? Copper soap or salts, silver salts? We can't get persistent insecticides like Chlordane any more. Do they make Advantage for trees? :)
As soon as you cut into the tree the fungal spores that are in the air will already be on the wound of the tree so the best method is to just let the tree deal with it
I am giving the cement a shot. The problem is the hollow gets deeper and deeper and rain water collects in it making it rot even faster. The cement must at least slow the rot down.
@@DAS-Videos i see that you wrote it can’t hit anything if it falls. So that’s good. My neighbors had no idea that the tree was full of cement. Not even when the top half of the tree came down and almost killed somebody. They only found out when they hired someone to take down the rest and his chainsaw hit the cement. Seems so reckless to hide a fix like this that can affect others many decades from now
@@stayfrosty2201 Mine is just a small but old dogwood tree, and the void had decayed organic matter that looked like dirt in it. Was impossible to keep it dry.
The reason it didn't work is that they didn't finish the job. After filling the hole with cement, you need to damage the callus tissue surrounding the hole to stimulate new growth, and then seal it off from the air. The cement simply provides a sound surface for the new bark to grow over.
I have seen his video and I want to believe it works. However, I have not seen any evidence in the industry that confirms this. I am open to all ideas but need to see confirmation. If you have more info, please share
Well, I totally disagree. I learned properly from an old German gentleman and his orchards on how to take care of a rotting wound in a tree. First, all the rotten wood meaning the softwood needs to be removed . Second, the wood must be treated with a fungicide and allowed dry out completely. Third either with a brush or spray asphalt is applied to the wood that is remaining and is still firm. It is then allowed to dry completely. And finally, the cavity is been filled with cement or even mortar. But only to fill the cavity not to exceed the height of the living bark. It is allowed to dry out completely asphalt and then be applied again . With enough time the tree will actually grow over this entire area.😉 Scott
i cut trees for a living and your correct its never good to close off the cavity it just locks in the moisture it just speeds up the decay because it now can't evaporate. pluse now you can't visually inspect the damage. and man dose it piss me off when i hit cement with my saw..great video
There must be some material that allowes the moisture to go one way only. Like some outdoor equipments like sleeping bags or tents are using kind of a defussion layer. It doesnt allow any moisture in but releases it to the outside. In the same fashion a tree cavity filling would work the same way.
Thanks, I was reading about this in an archived 1925 issue of national geographic and was curious if the practice was still in use today because it sounded quite bizarre and outdated, this video helped clear that up for me.
I would love to see that article. Could you snap a photo and email it to me? Blairglenn@gmail.com
I know somebody who filled a hole on the side of a mulberry tree with silastic silicone gel. I don't know if it worked, but it did look as if the tree was being given the "proper" "medical" treatment! All bandaged up! lol That squirrel was very cute. I had a Walt Disney Little Golden Book about "Perri the Red Squirrel" when I was a kid... ;D
The squirrel... loved that distraction. Thanks for the info!
I would say that cement has a purpose to straighten the tree.
Because the tree will break when it is hollow inside, rather than when it is filled with hard cement.
For example, at the wind hollow tree will brake easier than one that is filled with a cement.
Wrong
@@arboristBlairGlenn But WHY ???
My argument was that hollow tree will easier break on wind than natural healthy fulfilled tree. The solution is to fill the hollow wood with cement to reduce chance to break on strong winds. 😀
Sounds right but there have been studies that show the cement does not make the hollow trunk stronger. Wood flexes in the wind. Putting cement in a cavity does not make the wood any stronger. Study Shigo.
@@arboristBlairGlenn Thanks for the answer :-)
So does that mean we shouldn't do anything about tree cavities? Just let the nature to do it's thing?
@@filipjovanovic good question. Dr. Alex Shigo did an extensive study on the effects of filling cavities. The conclusion was that while a cavity is bad, we can make it worse by trying to fill it or drill to drain them. Also, by filling a cavity, future inspections are hampered by the filler. So the consensus is, best to leave them be.
So you've become the squirrel whisperer now ;)
Totally agree on the point you made. Wounds heal uo best left open.
Squirrel whisperer? Don't let that one get out!
This actually kind of breaks my heart, because 20 years ago when my ex-wife and I bought our first house we were in love with three huge Norwegian maples in the back yard, one of which had a bad ant infestation in a major limb removal wound. The tree had pale leaves with black spots our second year there so I sprayed for ants and filled the hole with expanding foam. For ten years after that the tree seemed to improve greatly but now I fear I may have severely shortened it's life for the people enjoying it now.
Ender eventually, we all go back into the earth
Drove by the old place yesterday, the tree is no more.
@@arboristBlairGlenn This is a beautiful perspective. It relieves the heartache of regret (not just for trees, but for so many scenarios in life). Thank you for the video and for this comforting perspective.
That squirrel was taking notes fr
Yup
On Dukes Estate, there was a tree void filled with bricks and cement. I will have to go and see how the tree looks.
2 thumbs down so far. Hum, are these from people who think this procedure is right or people who just don't like my stuff?
Define tally just trolls that don't like your channel it's a shame I love it!
+arboristBlairGlenn They don't like the squirrel.
Probably haters Blair
SHE YES SHE IS TELLING YOU TO GET AWAY FROM HER TREE IN WHICH HER BABIES ARE SLEEPING!! JUST SAYING OLD ONE LEGGED JOSEPH T RETIRED NAVY
Alcathous yea all the commentary and attention for that squirrel is dumb. Should have just remade the video . Telling me not to patch it and let it dry isn’t very helpful either.
Squirrels fed regularly will become half tame. This little guy was probably expecting a handout from you.
So you've told us a lot about what you shouldn't do, don't fill it, don't drill a hole through to let the water out the bottom, what should you use for a cavity that is collecting water?
Good question. From everything I have read and learned from conferences, still best to just leave it alone. Water should evaporate when hot.
Prevent water from getting in using some kind of mini roof or cover? Ideally it wouldn't touch tree
What about applying deck oil into those holes? If applied regularly it should protect the tree against moisture and also kill any insects. What do you think about it?
+Shahar Dror Any time I trim branches off I usually give them a couple/few coats of spray paint to seal them. Soaks in the end-grain a little and dries relatively quick leaving a protective coating until the tree grows over it and seals it the rest of the way. Works good on small branches like up to 2 inch diameter or so, as they generally grow over in a couple years time. Never tried it on anything much larger than that, but I'm guessing if you followed up on it with another coat every year or a couple times a year until it sealed itself it would be better than nothing. Once it starts to rot though there's not much you can do with it. But those are just MY thoughts on it.
+oldSawyer Study Dr Shigo'o work on this topic
A cavity is an irregular void. You would need to clean it out and smooth up an inside surface to coat it. Study Shigo's work on this subject
I saw a guy fill a cavity of a silver maple with a soil slurry then he planted day lilies at the one opening. I'm going to guess that this was not good for the tree either.
What happens to wooden planting boxes?
They turn into soil.
I have seen your other videos on this topic of filling cavities with the cement of foam, but have never seen it in person. Was this method very popular in the California area? being that i am from washington state, i wonder if this is something that was started in California.
Not started in California but it was common practice in the past.
Will this delay a tree from falling over?
Delay?
How's it g gonna dry if you leave it open?
It'll keep filling with water.
What are your ideas?
I only see what not too do on this matter.
Need a video on what to do.
According to Shigo and others who have studied this problem, it’s not an issue of what you can do to make it better but rather the negative results from filling the cavity. The consensus is this: by filling a void or cavity, you are no longer able to inspect it to make important safety decisions in the future. The sealant does nothing to improve things or slow down decay.
It was Doctor Alex Shigo’s job to dissect thousands of trees and he shows his work in many excellent books. So, a cavity is bad but you can make it worse.
I read about this in "To Kill a Mocking Bird" as a kid. I remember thinking it was a bad idea back then.
I never understood why it was done, either. Couldn't the same theory be applied to teeth fillings?
It's Gadfly what about PAIN!
i think that's a different cake
How would you prevent fungal infections or insect infestations? Copper soap or salts, silver salts? We can't get persistent insecticides like Chlordane any more. Do they make Advantage for trees? :)
As soon as you cut into the tree the fungal spores that are in the air will already be on the wound of the tree so the best method is to just let the tree deal with it
I am giving the cement a shot. The problem is the hollow gets deeper and deeper and rain water collects in it making it rot even faster. The cement must at least slow the rot down.
In my case the tree is in a spot where it can't hit anyone or anything if it did fall, and it is not a very large tree.
Don’t do it.
@@stayfrosty2201 How come?
@@DAS-Videos i see that you wrote it can’t hit anything if it falls. So that’s good. My neighbors had no idea that the tree was full of cement. Not even when the top half of the tree came down and almost killed somebody. They only found out when they hired someone to take down the rest and his chainsaw hit the cement. Seems so reckless to hide a fix like this that can affect others many decades from now
@@stayfrosty2201 Mine is just a small but old dogwood tree, and the void had decayed organic matter that looked like dirt in it. Was impossible to keep it dry.
The reason it didn't work is that they didn't finish the job.
After filling the hole with cement, you need to damage the callus tissue surrounding the hole to stimulate new growth, and then seal it off from the air.
The cement simply provides a sound surface for the new bark to grow over.
James Beat sorry, you need to study Dr Alex Shigo’s work. Cement is wrong
the squirl is afaid you will cutdown his tree..:)
ys :)
Gary Knowlton (PruneLikeAPro here on youtube) seems to have success slowing down decay using orange rind oil and bees wax. You have any thoughts?
I have seen his video and I want to believe it works. However, I have not seen any evidence in the industry that confirms this. I am open to all ideas but need to see confirmation. If you have more info, please share
Well, I totally disagree. I learned properly from an old German gentleman and his orchards on how to take care of a rotting wound in a tree.
First, all the rotten wood meaning the softwood needs to be removed . Second, the wood must be treated with a fungicide and allowed dry out completely. Third either with a brush or spray asphalt is applied to the wood that is remaining and is still firm. It is then allowed to dry completely. And finally, the cavity is been filled with cement or even mortar. But only to fill the cavity not to exceed the height of the living bark. It is allowed to dry out completely asphalt and then be applied again . With enough time the tree will actually grow over this entire area.😉 Scott
@@sammcdonald769 that is old school thinking. Study Shigo’s work and you may understand
@@sammcdonald769 I used to think that and do that too BUT, Dr. Alex Shigo explained it in a way that the industry has changed.
i cut trees for a living and your correct its never good to close off the cavity it just locks in the moisture it just speeds up the decay because it now can't evaporate. pluse now you can't visually inspect the damage. and man dose it piss me off when i hit cement with my saw..great video
So what is the proper practice?!?!? My whole is at the base...
Yes I though he would recommend his preferred method instead of complaining about this old practice.It doesn’t look bad even though it’s not perfect
There must be some material that allowes the moisture to go one way only. Like some outdoor equipments like sleeping bags or tents are using kind of a defussion layer. It doesnt allow any moisture in but releases it to the outside. In the same fashion a tree cavity filling would work the same way.
Stanislav Kocur in theory, sound good however if you study Dr Alex Shigo’s work you will see that it is best to just leave it be.
is a mesh wire made out of ceramic a better idea to fill the tree cavity? (cover the cavity)
I have a HUGE cavity in the middle of my flowering tree and yet the outer limbs are still growing and blooming. So..In fat, I don't do anything?
Debs Lloyd you pay attention to heavy limbs associated with that weakness and lighten if needed.
The main large stump is broken and the lighter branches are growing out from the old stump. The old stump have a cavity right in the center.
Debs Lloyd email me photos
Blairglenn@gmail.com