The dialogue between Lady Bird and her mother in the Goodwill, when they're arguing and then exclaiming over a dress with absolutely no segue in between, is literally the only true mother-daughter representation I've ever seen. Like that's it
yes, totally! my mom and i do that all the time lol, it just shows the level of unconditional intimacy, love and trust there's between a mother and her daughter
This is why writing women is so much fun. You can flow from one thought to another completely different thought without needing to explain too much, then let the contrasting thoughts complement. Writing from a female perspective also allows you to layer emotions and desires rather than roll them out one at a time, as with a male character. Women add so much to the subtext of their stories. And subtext is where all the fun meaty parts of a story are.
I loved all of of this except "theres no wrong way to write women" yeah there are an infinite great ways to wrote women, but there definitely are wrong ways.
@God of Nothing No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the "how" than the "what" or "why", when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
There is no wrong way to write a woman nor is there a right way. There is no wrong way to write a character. Theres just a character type that you dont like that you think is wrong.
I see it as wrong ways of writing characters is possible it shouldn’t matter of their gender, that isn’t well put but hopefully you interpret it as I meant
I don’t agree with the Kill Bill analysis. She 100% is the feminine archetype of the dangerous mother bear, avenging her unborn child and destruction of her future of a normal motherly life that many women want but she could never have. That’s why I look at Beatrice Kiddo as the ultimate female heroin. There is nothing inherently masculine in revenge, it’s the motivations behind it that can sometimes differ. Quentin got it right (or the graphic novel it’s based on) imo
I completely agree with you. The act of revenge in movies are often played by a male role so when a character of the opposite gender walks in with the motivation to avenge whatever it is they’re avenging it’s always perceived as masculine, general stuff like this can make creating a strong female character more difficult as people will often think of them as masculine which can often destroy the creators idea of making a female character. The main character of kill bill will always remain as a great example of a strong feminine character to me no matter what people will say.
I just found it ridiculous he looked at Kill Bill Pt 1. without referencing the sequel at all. If you've seen both the films, you are given so much more context to why The Bride is who she is, and i so hell-bent on revenge. And the "death of her femininity" statement is also ridiculous if you've seen the 2nd part. It's the death of her freedom from Bill, being able to have a normal, fulfilled life, and a chance for her child to live in a world un-tethered to the sins of her father. Not to mention her pregnancy completely changes her outlook on life. And being pregnant is something exclusive to the experience of being a woman and it's completely ignored.
He says “this movie doesn’t tap into a distict female experience” however 1. She was pregnant during her wedding. 2. at the end of vol. 2 she realizes she is a mother with is probably the MOST distinct female experience.
This is a great take on writing women, but there is one thing I'd like to add. Throughout the video, you referenced masculine traits in female characters as being strong and powerful and made out the feminine traits to be on the vulnerable, weaker side. I believe that there is a great power and strengthy in femininity that has yet to be explored in both cinema and video essays.
Like you said there are very few positive traits traditionally considered feminine in popular culture, or at least fewer than there are positive traits considered masculine. But have you seen this video essay on femininity in cinema? I found it pretty awesome. /playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7EjlefWLnxCzLbBHU4Dz6R
Exactly! This video was pretty much hypocritical and sexist because of this, using the word 'masculine' in association with strength, aggression etc. is so wrong.
cynicallygreen Oh, for crying out loud. Have you ever read any feminist theory in your life? Masculinity is associated with strength and other positive traits because it was constructed to be this way. Femininity and masculinity are used to solidify a gender hierarchy based on sex so they aren’t “equal but different” characteristics. People are not sexist for pointing out that masculinity is of higher value because this is the reality of living in a sexist society which made them so. Throughout all the ages people have had to “perform masculinity” to be respected and to elevate status as gender is learned behaviour rather than innate. Femininity is not deemed positive outside of individualist practise or its benefits to masculinity.
No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the how than the what, when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
"does not seem to tap into a distinctly feminine experience" 6:03. I understand what you're saying here but I totally disagree. The bride being murdered while pregnant is an experience as distinctly feminine as being scrutinized at work/gazed at for being a woman like the case of Silence of the Lambs. I think there's a lot about Kill Bill that makes it a distinctly feminine story. The whole movie would read much differently if she wasn't a mother.
This dude seems to think that because she's ruthless and Badass, she's masculine? To me her mama bear shit is a classic female fantasy. It just uses a bunch of masculine tropes.. But isn't that a part of the fantasy, too? Getting shit done the way I man is allowed to. "O that I were a man! I would eat his heart in the marketplace!"
I appreciate you both mentioning these scenes. They do seem to question my assumption that The Bride is exclusively masculine. I will say, Tarantino is still tapping into the "code" of old masculine Westerns --- watch the scene right before the final duel in Once Upon a Time in the West. Both men follow these arbitrary rules about how the duel is supposed to take place, as if there is some "decent" way you're supposed to kill someone. Of course, an exact replica of this "code" is at the beginning of Kill Bill, when Bill won't kill The Bride because she is in a coma, something along the lines of "it's not fair to kill somebody when they can't defend themselves." The pregnant scene is the same deal -- she's pregnant, so it violates the "rules." I didn't want to mention that scene because it opens up a whole new can of worms, but I will say that Tarantino is STILL using masculine ideas of honor, justice, and "getting what you deserve" and applying them to two female characters. So despite a scene that is clearly a female experience -- finding out you are pregnant -- it's still encapsulated in this masculine vibe. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AT ALL. But it is worth noting. This is Tarantino's hallmark, and also what makes him such a great director, taking characters who never got to be traditional action heroes and letting them be the traditional hero -- Women, Black People, Jewish people. But the tradeoff is that he has to sacrifice some of the feminine, black, or jewish experience in order to let them fulfill the fantasy of being badass. I would love to hear your thoughts.
I do see the plot as The Bride losing her possible life as a woman. But Bill’s Superman speech revealed that she never really changed. The life she lost, as a traditional wife, was just her “secret identity”. Then at the end, she became a mother. The role of gender and sex in the Kill Bill movies is over-simplified in this video.
The ending of Kill Bill 2 kind of subverts your expectations that she'll have a victory the exact same way as her male counterparts, too. She still gets her revenge though
While I understand what you’re saying, I feel like if you’re calling a want for revenge and taking actions to get it a “masculine” thing, then even you are blinded to the complexity and realness of women. Revenge is a human temptation, not gendered, which can be seen in the many historical wrongdoings and triumphs of men and women. I’ll assume you’re gendering them based on previous movies featuring solely men in these roles, and not because you think revenge is masculine itself, but even if that was the case, you’re narrative of “write complex female characters” seems warped when you call a female character who doesn’t fit your stereotype of a woman “masculine” and not “complex.” It just seems a tad odd to me!
I don't think he was necessarily adhering to those standards himself out of his own personal molds but rather reflecting on how tropes are subjected (as feminity and masculinity are pretty much tropes on themselves).
I’m not really a fan :/ I feel like their girl characters are really screamy and dramatic and it’s a little annoying... but the movie about the moving house is indeed fantastic! I love it so much!
Goat Koala Г.С huh 👁👄👁 first of all 1. The only female characters that are screamy and whiny are the little girl characters that are 3 years old. And if it’s not, it’s used as a starting point to pave the way for character development. second, the adult female characters don’t do that. third, those are only in the American dubs, American dubs are way too cartoonish and overreacting. Just watch the japanese audio w subtitles
@@rat1709 agreed. I grew up with the Spirited Away dub, and loved it, but Chihiro's voice did at times annoy me as an adult. Then i watched the sub a while back and adored it. The dub is great and i have a soft spot for it, but the subs are just so soft on the ears, i don't know how to explain it😂😂 but screamy dramatic and annoying? Never. Human? Yes.
Then I guess you would agree both feminity and masculinity are arbitrary standards for classifying human character? Even then I think we can't deny that it is a trope that was often reserved to male characters and a female character taking on the role represents a subversion of it (or at least did in those earlier takes. It's pretty much become a trope of its own by now). I think that although we should strive to stop gendering behaviour ignoring its relevance in current times and media may be a bit of a waste when you could further exploit their potential to be analyzed within a referential framework, in contrast to enabling the status quo or missing out on some narrative goods by going in as a complete outsider. Unless you just wanna have fun that way, that's perfectly fine too. Just a contribution with my own perspective though.
Exactly! This video pissed me off so much because it was so the opposite of what it was actually trying to preach. This person needs to educate themselves more if they're a male making a video about writing women.
Bit off topic, but the way this video mixed when Clarice told her story of the lambs, combined with when she actually goes down Buffalo Bills basement was quite the eye-opener! I hadn't realised the similarities earlier. She was in some ways re-living that old trauma again...
Yeah, but I hadnt quite realised the similarities with confronting Buffalo Bill in his basement, and her old memory of searching for and finding the lambs in the basement. The similarities were shown beautyfully in this video.
Is there really though ? It all depends on your moral values which is worth a whole life of debate on its own. And even if a universal moral ground was found (which is impossible in itself), you'd still have to debate whether or not means of expression like litterature, cinema or video games need to abide by those rules. Which I don't think they should. (I don't disagree with you for the most part, but I'd like to point out that thise is not as clear as you make it sound)
@@arenkai I don't consider it a moral question, I just prefer movies that focus on storytelling and less on seeing how many explosions can be fit in the shortest time possible. I would say there is a wrong way to portray women. It's not wrong to focus on a person's sexuality in a story, so long as it relates to the story. If the female character is only there to be an eye candy reward, I'd say the character was done wrong, because it will pull me out of the story to see characters used as things. It is just a personal opinion, but I think it's one that a lot of people share to some degree.
arenkai you are correct! Everything is fluid, life is chaos! But I think anyone who thinks a woman is an object is a piece of shit and shouldn’t be making movies with corporate partnerships.
Dude i was just flipping through an old book i have from the 1850s called extraordinary lives, about people who did great things i guess, but the chapters are arranged into categories like politicians, scientists, artists, whatever, but then there is a separate chapter called WOMEN lol. Interesting planet we live on... It’s funny how no woman thinks of men as being a separate species for lack of a better word, but even the little dude who made this video who probably pays good money from his parents to take gender studies classes in college hah, even this little millennial dude is making content like this that is derived on a base level from a fundamental view of women being a derivation on the original model. we should be grateful he gave us his rib ladies haha
@@digitalsalsas women are completely different though & it's only now when we get to look back in leisure & judge the course of human history. They are unlike men, a lamer example being most of them shrieking because there is a bug on the wall, but in the man's mind, grabbing something to capture the bug with is his first priority. Men stormed the beaches of Normandy, not women. Women can give birth & biologically nurture an infant, a man can't. I don't understand all the animosity. Women should admit they suck too. P.s. never heard anyone talk as much shit about a women, than Another Woman.
@The Earth Is Dying Because Of You yep, humans suck. I question anyone who seems to talk down to other people. I don't care what u got between your legs, I just care about your individual actions. Later
CommonClayoftheNewWest are you saying the reactions to seeing a bug are gendered????? I have had to collect bugs from rooms for so, so many men because they were too scared. You don’t have a very realistic view of life if you genuinely believe that reactions like these are not only based on gender, but also warrant the need to separate women’s achievements into a lesser category. I’m not sure you have experienced and spoken to a wide range of people if you don’t think that women and men can share exceptionally similar characteristics. Also I can guarantee that men bitch about women just as much as women do. You are trying to sound logical, but your logic is based off of blatant stereotypes, and it sounds like you haven’t had much real-world experience in your life to be drawing from.
@@kiaz1st yeah they aren't lesser. Were equal, just different. Im Pretty sure it wasn't your grandma dropping behind enemy lines in the 101st airborne, back when millions of Men were murdering eachother in WW2 (though women played a massive role behind the front line) I try being a realist. Obviously women can be just as resilient in ways & certainly not every man is, manly. Good for you, being one of the special ones but generally speaking, its not like I'm spewing lies so man up!, right? Society tells us to suppress our emotions as a male on a daily basis. Therefore, Welcome.. to 2020's equality! No cherry picking equal rights here,. Maybe join skyscraper construction or work in the sewers of cities, bcuz statistically speaking, there's a severe lacking of women in those departments. Thx
Keyboard Cockatoo Yup, I’m in physical pain from “lorddouchebags” keyboard warrior prowess. And then they found $100. And all the other incels clapped. And Albert Einstein was there, for some reason
This is not an accurate statement. Hell, even the movie you are quoting showed the contrast with that statement. There are a LOT of strong female characters with reason and accountability going back decades, as illustrated in the video you just watched. Was the quoted mind set more common? Yes for sure. Of course now we are reaching a polar opposite mindset where the way the "media" defaults to write women is as a Mary Sue. We will find a balance some day. PS - this is not a knock with the Mary Sue thing. Keanu Reeves and Vin Diesel have made a career out of playing Mary Sue's. More so a product of lazy writing than sexism in my opinion.
the Lost Q Many of the best female characters are "Mary Sue's." Clarice and Ripley would fit the criteria, and they're beloved. The Bride is a cheap caricature and the girl in Lady Bird is so realistic it renders her completely uninteresting. We're going to keep finding things problematic till there's nothing left to write about.
The mainstream media has proven itself to be unreliable, just like how it loves to label women as irresponsible, it labels men just as often as abusive and homophonic when the narrative is convenient.
I like how you touched on the fact that we need ALL these different types of characters for women. I hate when people only want to see the cliche-and often bland-Strong Female Character type. As a 17-year-old girl, I love being able to see plenty of different types of complex female characters on screen, flaws and all; it makes for a much more interesting story.
Lily Sullivan thank you for saying that! The only female comic relief characters I can think of off the top of my head is the “fat pervy girl” and I really want more than that lol.
This is a great video as always, but I kind of disagree with saying that The Bride is a masculine character. Why? Because she's tough? Kills a lot of people, is portrayed as aggressive and violent and fights a lot? Is seeking a cinematic level of vengeance? I wouldn't say those things are *Literally* masculine, I'd say that's more our stereotype that we all buy in to. Really, if we think about it, I think The Bride acts as excusively like a fictional character, reguardless of gender. That masculine ideal of being a tough heroic badass taking out ninjas and whatnot is a total fictionalized myth. No man is like that, whether they want to be or not. It's an idea. The Bride of Kill Bill I feel is more like Ripley how you described; A character that is written for a cinematic story, who just happens to be a woman. Also great insight into Silence of the Lambs here, that was very interesting, and other than the moments where the groups of cops look at her while shes there as if she's an outsider, I hadn't considered the whole movie to be about gender and the whole character to have so much meaning in just her gender. Makes me appreciate it more actually. Lastly, funnily enough I think those characters of Lady Bird probably best represent every real person, man or woman, more so than any of the three main one's you discussed, just simply because that movie's a lot closer to reality, or atleast, a normal, average person's reality. Like being a man I still feel like the characters of Lady Bird would be more relatable to me than the ultra badass Bride or the capable and tough Ripley just because Lady Bird is a lot more grounded in general. Ok, essay or whatever the hell this was is over. Sorry if my point's come accross stupid or not in the way I intended... In the end, awesome job as usual
She is stereotypically masculine, that's what he's getting at. The whole point is that she is replacing a man in a role that for most of cinematic history has been reserved for the male - although I don't think he's correct on the whole revenge = masculine thing, because the idea of a mother avenging the death of the unborn child she was carrying is a nigh female-exclusive experience. (Not to mention, the stereotype of the aggressive "mama bear" defending her children)
So many times where I’ve watched a movie or tv show, the stark differences in how the male and female characters are written stand out like a sore thumb. Where the male characters have personal goals and struggles relating to their story, the women are written to only have goals and struggles relating to a male figure (often the protagonist), and little else. The director would have very obviously thought deeply about the character arc, motivators, and ideals of the male characters, and then have only thought about the woman in regards to how she thinks about the male characters. Rarely do I get to see a female character with a well-rounded personality, goals outside of the men in her life, and a satisfying and deep-meaning character arc that doesn’t revolve around the male protagonist.
Damn you must not watch a lot Of movies or tv shows theres Many & a multitude of female Charecters that are compelling And have well rounded personalities you just Ignore them like most People do, Because People unironically see All women as victims and always downplay Their accomplushments Or charecters that are Well written because The Victim mentality Is too strong Reducing women To just victims Taking away their Agency or responsiblity.
haha I thought something similar in that of course there are wrong ways. I think the argument there would just be that while there are obviously wrong ways to write women there are obviously wrong ways to write men as well and we can chalk it up to bad writing in general.
I think its true. Its not about writing a woman. Its about writing a good character. If you write a good character, then it doesnt matter if its man or woman.
@Syafiq Razip No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the how than the what, when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
This is the thing, I like gender being ignored in fantasy (like superhero movies and Star Wars and stuff) but I’m okay with it when it’s important (like you pointed out in silence of the lambs) Good video.
...I say ‘how I prefer female characters to be written’, and somehow that implies I like how it’s currently being handled....okay. Yes I am a guy. And no, I don’t like how the female characters are being handled in most modern fantasy...because they are doing it wrong. Stars Wars Episode 7 was aggravating to me because they didn’t go for a more original story and instead went for soft reboot, and most annoyingly they broke certain lore. Plus they didn’t develop Reys character enough and she lacked a motive for me. Nothing to do with her being a woman, but just lazy/safe writing. (People only pointed out that she was female because she seemingly was the most powerful Jedi without an ounce of training or even guidance how to use force, where as every male character did...to some degree, not an issue for me) Episode 8 was kind of the same, only that didn’t ignore gender for me, it specifically wrote most of the Male characters as hot head idiots, and the females as more condescending authoritative, where it doesn’t specifically make gender an issue through dialogue but if you know a thing about writing you can easily see how the writers wanted to portray certain characters. Rey was far more interesting in the film but it ultimately felt like it was playing catch up from what JJ simply avoided doing in episode 7. Again, not a problem with Rey, but more aggravated by lore breaking and bad writing...and directing at times too. Now I’m fine with a female character being in charge/authorative/smarter then a male one, but when you specifically make men hot head and stupid, it’s rather like writing women as weak minded and flimsy damsels, it’s a false perception of the other sex and kind of a stereotype. Rogue one wasn’t exactly a great movie either but on the gender aspect I actually liked that film as It becomes an invisible issue. I just like immersive writing. That’s all I want. I’m bit of a film snob. The captain marvel situation is another recent discussion about this, but I feel my main issue with that is how Brie Larson made the film political in the press. Instead of letting the movie do the talking, they have to put a label on it now and I don’t personally agree with that. People are sick of politics now and that’s why they like gender to be ignored, they want to escape from it. That’s why movies like alien appeal to me more.
onyourleftbooob-a position of privilege? I assume you aimed that to me, You don’t know anything that me and my family has had to go through. And yes that’s fine for them to make movies like captain marvel, even if they have feminist agendas, but men simply won’t wanna go see it when they are being generalised by the main actress in it. Anyway, I posted a comment, I don’t want a thread of debating. I like gender being invisible in fantasy, that’s it.
@@TheArsenalgunner28 I personally don't think gender should be invisible in fantasy. If the writer wants to say something about gender, they can definitely use it in their fantasy setting, as well as race. Being a fantasy story doesn't exclude a fantasy world from having similar issues that we have in the real world. Even Avatar: The Last Airbender tackled gender a few times. I personally think fantasy that isn't afraid to delve into real problems from time to time are the better ones. ATLA wouldn't be nearly as good if it ignored these things.
I like this video. Writing a good woman isn't as simple as "just write it the same as a guy". Men and women may be equal but they undeniably think differently and have different experiences and views. So they should get movies exploring that.
@@yeahiagree1070 very funny. For me, as a woman, different thinking means: planning beforehand my way home in the night, thinking that i should be liked by everybody (which is, from my experience, more common for women) or problem saying no.
Johanka C. No of those are inherently feminine. I mean there are plenty of women who don’t plan a way back home, there are men who want everyone to like them and women who are perfectly cable of saying no if they want to. Sure their could be a slight bias, but these certainly aren’t universal and they aren’t even significantly different ways of thinking. It’s just being more responsible/sociable.
Something interesting happened when I watched Ladybird. I watched it in the theatre with my friends. When it finished most of my male friends (and me) thought it was ok at best and boring at worst, whereas my female friends all liked it. I reckon we (the boys) couldn't connect with the protagonist as much as the girls could because they shared many more similar expiriences with her and thus they felt much more identified.
Bautista Alonso I watched it with a few girls I was living with and at the end myself and a few of them were really emotional, whereas some of them thought it was boring and didn’t relate. I guess it’s more of a personal experience rather than a universal female experience!
The kind of mother/daughter relationship in lady bird is actually very similar to the relationship I a guy had to my mother, which is why I liked the movie so much.
You deserve so many more subscribers, this channel is legitimately the best movie/film based channel ive ever seen and is edited perfectly. Every video ive seen on this channel has surprised me in the significance of each subject and has changed the way I see the art of films. Keep it going man, its a sin that cinemasins has more notoriety.
This may sounds weird, but whenever I need to write a great female character, I always use my mother as reference, because most of the time mother figures have all the trait of a great female character. Moms are usually kind and sweet, but also tough and badass, they can be flawed, but they are always the one we seek for counsel
tang roro every time i need to write a GREAT male character, i think of tang roro. he is so believable and dynamic, he is my only reference for half the population because i see the rest of men as a special interest group. cute!!
James Cameron thought the same thing! He modeled ripley and sarah connor off of his mom, who always supported his dreams. Funny,tho, that he respected women in cinema but not in real life. Being married 5 times, he certainly didn’t treat his wives well
"Ripley could be a man or a woman and it would be just as good." ...in a movie that plays on fears of sexual assault and sexual violence... Also Aliens is literally ABOUT motherhood
but Alien is not about motherhood, and played on the fear of sexual assault from a male perspective. I hear Ripley was a man in the screen play for Alien. In contrast, Aliens was written with a female character in mind and this is where motherhood came in.
Something to note in Kill Bill: In some ways the story definitely ties back to her womanhood, especially with regard to her motherhood. Leaving Bill and the life of a world-class assassin to protect her unborn child? Uniquely feminine experience. Her pain and anguish when she wakes up from her coma to realize that she is no longer pregnant and her baby is gone? Uniquely feminine, and a scene with a profound emotional impact. Her reaction to realizing BB is alive after all, and going to happily relish parenthood? Not uniquely feminie, but it brings her motherhood storyline full circle. Actually, one of the things I love about Kill Bill is that The Bride manages to retain her womanhood in this way while also being a masculine badass.
mankytoes I was the same when I watched the trailer. I was so put off, and it looked like something that had been done a hundred times before. But my dad loves going to the cinema so I decided to go and see it with him, thinking to myself that if it was as terrible and cliched as I thought it was going to be, only two hours of my life would be wasted. I’ve watched ladybird five times since then.
Lady Bird was actually liberating to watch because if never seen such a realistic depiction of a mother daughter relationship. The most subtle, supposedly un-dramatic scenes like when she tried on the dress or when the mum drove away without saying goodbye made me weep because they were SO close to reality, and especially the relationship I have with my mum.
Type of women I have seen in block buster movies: 1. Sexy vixen: women who are there to tease then arouse a man. Perfect in any shape or form. A prize at the end 2. Perfect wife: house perfect, always have warm food ready for her family, day and night. So understanding and patient. Usually dies early to give a husband a motivation to revange. 3. Crack head mom: there to hurt a man who just wants to do right. Usually has a kid who is unusually smart and nice. 4. Manic pixy dream girl: weird and crazy but somehow considered out of box, wise beyond their weird hair. There to lead lost boys into manhood. By the way, all of them really beautiful and skinny.
The way I see it, unless the social connotations (i.e. sexism in the workplace) or sexual connotations (i.e. pregnancy) are a crucial element being explored, I feel that the idea of both masculinity and femininity are both illusions. To put it simply, not all men are big and strong, and not all women are damsels in distress. I think the genderless approach of character writing is really solid, which is part of why I love Ellen Ripley in Alien and Aliens so much. She's not incredibly feminine nor masculine. Her actions and quirks in both movies are just badass, but not like Stallone/Schwarzenegger masculine badass, but something more unique.
so, first of all, I think you're right about that and I absolutely love me a genderless approach to writing characters. it's brilliant. but then maybe to represent the whole spectrum of the human experience you should just explore ALL the possible ways of writing women (and other minorities who've been misrepresented) starting with adding those exact groups to writing rooms. because if you tell a group of straight white male writers "write some kind of character but don't specify their gender" they might still default to creating the kind of character they see on screen and identify with the most. even if they're incredibly good and talented it's understandable that that would happen and we'd just get a female character with "traditionally male" traits. not that that's inherently bad (bc it sort of humanises women, which is a sad thought but anyway) just,, it's only one way of living life, there's more to explore yk. when you can make a movie about a universally relatable experience that's wonderful. but not telling stories about all sorts of lives, from all sorts of perspectives, that's kind of missing out. I know you weren't saying that it's just my little addition tldr gr8 idea but we'd probs need diverse writers to make it happen
Holy crap...your juxtaposition of Clarice's childhood story alongside her confrontation with Buffalo Bill is frickin' brilliant! I never realized before how her description of the event mirrors the exact movements she's making through the house.
It’s very simple, actually: treat characters like characters. Gender and race shouldn’t matter. And before anyone gets pissed at me, I’m not saying don’t write diverse characters, I’m just saying don’t have their race or gender be their defining character trait.
That's kind of oversimpligying it though. Gender and race can matter, depending on the story. A slavery movie that ignores race would be kinda silly. Clarice's character is shaped by her gender a lot, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I have never before felt a film resonate with me the way ladybird did. It is one of those films that has such a "feel good" vibe to it while not having a too predictable and simple plot. And yes, the way they fight etc is so, so relatable. I don't know how guys interpretted this film but I saw so much of my relationship with my mother in it. Really love the film.
There's a deleted scene in Alien where Ripley's on Parker's case over the ship repairs, and Parker snarls to Brett 'just one time, man' like he wants to lay a punch on her, and Brett says 'what you'd really like to do is ball her'. Can't imagine that exchange happening if Ripley was a man. In my opinion, everything that was cut from Alien improved it immensely.
Good video! I'd like to slightly counter that the Bride's storyline is largely rooted in the female experience, but not a positive one. The acts of violence that she undergoes with Bill and the men at the hospital are not random, they are acts of violence that specifically threaten women such as rape and forced miscarriage. The Bride is a staple of what strength is perceived by the genders: The strength of men is most often measured by how much violence they can inflict; the strength of women is most often measured in how much violence they can endure. The Bride is a mixture of both, channeling masculine and feminine tropes in different moments of the movie to make her appeal like the most powerful character in the movie, while keeping that compassion towards Nikkia Bell and Gogo Yubari that is most associated with women.
I watched Lady Bird with my Mum and it felt great to see that kind of relationship explored so well. I often struggle with ‘strong’ female characters because some people seem to think strong means rejecting femininity and vulnerability, essentially just be as masculine as possible. I’d love to see more female characters who embrace those typically feminine traits that are so often seen as weaknesses
You got it right. A big part of film is exploring the vast amount of perspectives in the world and drawing it in to the human perspective we all have. Movies with women protagonist don't need to be about womanhood; however, there is a perspective that can influence the characters decisions and motives. This is not a bad thing! This is what's great about film! I want to be presented with an authentic depiction of a character in order to empathize with their perspective. Great video!
I watched Ladybird with my mother and my god we were so struck by how honest and accurate it was. So much so we felt it hit too close to home in many scenes.
TheHopperUK No, the video has it wrong. The original script had Ripley written as a man, but Ridley Scott ended up giving the part to Sigourney Weaver. It’s a very well know production note, google it.
So heres the thing, the script was written for all characters to be gender interchangeable, that script note he showed was real. Where the confusion lies is that everyone assumed it would be played as a male and they did try to cast a male until at the last minute they decided to cast a female instead.
I love the lamb monologue laid over the infiltration of Buffalo Bill's dungeon. I never realised how perfectly parallel the two stories are until seen side by side.
Fantastic video. It's also interesting to look at how Ripley's character is developed in the sequel Aliens. The theme of motherhood is introduced and illustrated through her relationship with Newt. Instead of making her vulnerable, it strengthens her character by giving her the motivation to fight back and not just survive
"Long ago, there lived Jane, who strolled down the street with her massive breasts glistening in the sunlight. After turning the corner, her tits bounced when she stumbled with John, the hunk-of-a-man the entire town was talking about. Jane had never seen John up close. Standing before her was a wall of muscles, a chiseled chin, and icy green eyes that gazed down at her with the devil's smile. Jane immediately wet herself, and her nipples got hard and erect. What is going on with me? she thought. This wasn't like her. Why was she getting all flustered before a man who could easily tear her apart with his powerful arms?" Yup. There are for sure horrible ways to write women. And the example above is one of them. The scariest part is, that example I just created was inspired by REAL authors who have published REAL books. I cannot believe how dogshit some authors--both men and women--can be when it comes to writing characters. Actually insane how they get approved and published. I'm looking at you romance-fantasy authors.
Usually I really like your videos, but this one fell short imo. You seem to be saying "women can be written like men, like women, or like neither." And well.... yeah? You're not wrong by any means, but I was expecting a little bit more on the ways women are written, portrayed, directed, etc. Maybe comparing some well written women to some badly written ones, could've even brought in Kubrick and his self-proclaimed inability to write women as well as his male characters. I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm glad you brought up Ladybird, since that is a great example of a relationship that we have rarely seen in film and one that for the most part only a woman would've been able to write or direct. I just felt like this is only scratching the surface of how women have been portrayed in film and would've liked some deeper discussion. Maybe this topic just needs a female film critic to dive into the nuances.
Dude this is a good video BUT your analysis of the Bride is deeply, tragically and unnecessarily flawed. The narrative is split over two films. Vol 2 is not a sequel of Vol 1 it's one continuous story. The choice to have a continuous (albeit with interspersed flashbacks) narrative in Vol 2 and a non-linear narrative in Vol 1 is VERY deliberate. All the character development for the Bride happens in Vol 2. She ends the film as a mother. Not a killer. Her realization of that is mirrored in the relatively anti-climactic fight with Bill and the play fight that the Bride, BB (her daughter) and Bill have when she first meets BB. The whole story ends with an integration of the maternal into "the badass". She completes the heroine's journey by merging the masculine heroes journey with an actualization of her femininity. She becomes a whole person by going the masculine side of the revenge narrative and by (literally) embracing her maternal side with BB.
That last line made me look up and remember to hit 'like'. Nice rounded script. 10 minutes is a great length for a RUclips video! I'll always watch a 10 minute video.
What’s ironic about silence of the lambs is how everyone is treating her like an outsider while Hannibal treated her as an equal, in a creepy way sort of
My favorite women in film and TV: Zoe Washburn from Firefly/Serenity, Akeelah Anderson from Akeelah and the Bee, Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy especially Vol. 2, Laura from Logan, Rapunzel from Tangled, Jocelyn Carter from Person of Interest, Diane Nguyen from Bojack Horseman, April Dwyer from Parks and Rec, Misty Knight from Luke Cage, and Ripley from Aliens.
This is a very solid video but it was kinda lacking that you didn’t include any queer women and of color in it. Granted the examples you used are very universal but I also think that there are also nuances and more aspects that could be taken to account. Like how writing women as tough and dominating can be stigmatizing for black women but also subversive for Asian women who are often portrayed as submissive. With some research I think it could make for an interesting follow up for this video and could also take the conversation to a more interesting place
I grew up with two sisters and it has had a huge influence on the way I relate to women. I see the jaw-droppingly ignorant and even grotesque comments posted by some men online and I wonder how they could ever write those things. Then I think that perhaps they have never been able to relate to a woman as a *person.* Unfortunately, the way our society is structured, it is hard for a lot of men to get to know women as people unless they grow up with them. And there was nothing in Ladybird that surprised me :)
You assume only men online write about women like that. Be in my shoes as a woman getting bullied by women and men. They can be equally vile to each other believe it or not.
8:25-8:28 is SO REAL! 🤣🤣🤣 And this is why we need people who live from certain perspectives telling stories too. So many different POVs that often easily go under the radar because it's so nuanced and might seem to be one way from the outside but be completely different to those who actually experience it.
Ladybird makes me cry every time😭 it perfectly captures the complexities of a modern day mother-daughter relationship like nothing I’ve ever seen before. It’s too real for me and my mom
In the complexity of human experience everybody has a slightly different take on male and female roles and characters. I think that it's a great thing that more and more women are making movies. Every individual sensibility has its own take on the world and on character building: the more people play the game, more exeptional writers emerge. (don't forget there are a lot of bad writers and directors, male and female... That's life)
I absolutely adore your channel, and have for some time now. You put so much effort into them and I truly appreciate it. I want to be an actor, writer and director someday, and channels like yours really help.
I’ll admit I was worried when I read the title. There are countless RUclips videos of men bemoaning certain types of female characters that it made me anxious. The lesson here is handled very well, there are multiple positive ways to represent women in media and there is no “right way” or “wrong way” just as there may be no wrong way to represent a man.
The Silence of the Lambs and Legally Blonde, as a woman, are some of my favourite movies. the silence of the lambs actually being my favourite of all time, clarice is such a strong protagonist.
I don't think kill bill is done quite enough justice here, watching the two volumes back to back you realise how much abuse and torment the bride has gone through. In addition to that although Revenge is a large part of her character, the bride also is very much a female character. The men in the movie objectify her and she often breaks down her façade of stoicism in various parts of the movie. The women in this movie respect each other even when they are contracted to kill each other. There are a whole bunch of gender dynamics which have been completely ignored. It is also important to note that Uma Thurman had a major role in constructing this character. I think most importantly the introduction of her daughter to the story changes everything showing her struggle is not that of a man but of a women and a mother.
Very good points. There is still a respect amongst all the female assassins in the movie. She's even allowed to walk away once she tells one of her targets she is pregnant. I was surprised how poorly this video essay analyzed the film. Maybe he was only focusing on Pt. 1, but it's not an accurate analysis if you ignore Pt. 2. He even chooses the scene where The Bride kills Buck in Pt. 1 and thinks that has nothing to do with gender?
I became a fan in between this and your last video. So I was super excited to consume this asap after burning through your entire collection. You do an excellent job every time. Thank you for your distillations!
Agent May and Daisy are a perfect example of great writing of women when it comes to mother daughter. They aren’t even related, but their relationship is clear and pure.
"There's no wrong way to write women"? That is such a broad statement. If that's true, is there no wrong way to write men? Or no wrong way to write at all? I'm not mad I just thought that statement was completely out of place after a video of how to write women characters creatively
I thought that gender was fluid and that binary roles are a social construct, so why are you all getting so upset about how one "gender" is being portrayed. Surely it doesn't matter.
@@spenser9908 you try really hard to troll.. youve posted trolling replies to other comments... kinda sad dude, maybe you should spend your time doing something worth while? a bit pathetic.
It's a pun, the other guy said it. I'm any case, yes, there are basically no ways to write a "wrong" female or male character. Why would there be? There are a handful of characteristics that define men and women. Pregnancy, menstruation, being prone to emotional tilting. Are a few for women, this is not an opinion, it's just true and if you doubt it I have evidence. Men have conflict written in the genes, and the protective instinct. There are more but these are the the most basic. People are NOT a checklist. People are difficult, and we don't have enough boxes to understand what they are, only by using boxes.
I absolutely adore "The Silence of the Lambs." It seems like such a creepy thing to say, but I think your analysis is pointing out all the things that make it so great. Clarice is so vulnerable, yet strong; so inexperienced, yet clever; and so eager to prove herself to Crawford and several other men, yet she stands up for herself ("it matters"). I think shifting the focus from Clarice to Hannibal is the main thing that made the other movies just gross outs with no real substance (in spite of having great actors).
I feel like the issue is when a writer thinks "how do I write this gender" instead of "how do I write this person". Men and women are different but not that fucking much. Just write a character with like a real person and it works.
Rey from star wars is essentially every female character written over the past 5 years or so. Instinctively amazing at everything they do and no obstacles to overcome
Dude, you completely overlooked the thematic importance of Ripley finding out her daughter was dead in Alien 2 and the Bride's motivation of finding her daughter was crucial to her character. I mean, I understand that's not the point of the video. But that's like, crucial info.
I actually never felt like Uma was portrayed as masculine. Even though traditionally men move the plot along generally, since I was a kid it seemed that she was driven by emotional revenge and anger from pain rather than trying to embody masculine characteristics.
15 years since I first saw it, and I never put the parallels together between Clarice's story of hearing the screaming lambs and her rescue of the senator's daughter. Hot damn, that's clever!
This analysis has me crying. I haven't seen Ladybird, but maybe I have to now... Judging from the clips you chose, it perfectly completes the theme of your video, and it made for a powerful conclusion. Thanks :')
Hey! U should watch movies that Greta Gerwig wrote and acted in like 'Mistress America' and 'Frances Ha'. They're so hilarious. Personally I prefer them to LB.
The dialogue between Lady Bird and her mother in the Goodwill, when they're arguing and then exclaiming over a dress with absolutely no segue in between, is literally the only true mother-daughter representation I've ever seen. Like that's it
yes, totally! my mom and i do that all the time lol, it just shows the level of unconditional intimacy, love and trust there's between a mother and her daughter
true. I could relate so much
Mother daughter relationships are so difficult to navigate. It's a good scene!
How many times I've had this exact moment with my mom... truly movie magic
This is why writing women is so much fun. You can flow from one thought to another completely different thought without needing to explain too much, then let the contrasting thoughts complement. Writing from a female perspective also allows you to layer emotions and desires rather than roll them out one at a time, as with a male character. Women add so much to the subtext of their stories. And subtext is where all the fun meaty parts of a story are.
I loved all of of this except "theres no wrong way to write women" yeah there are an infinite great ways to wrote women, but there definitely are wrong ways.
I think they clarified this was a pun that didn't come across through voiceover. It was meant to be "there's no wrong way to RIGHT women."
@@jackfinn8592 Yeah, but it's not really clear. That line, ironically enough, needed work
@God of Nothing No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the "how" than the "what" or "why", when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
There is no wrong way to write a woman nor is there a right way. There is no wrong way to write a character. Theres just a character type that you dont like that you think is wrong.
I see it as wrong ways of writing characters is possible it shouldn’t matter of their gender, that isn’t well put but hopefully you interpret it as I meant
I don’t agree with the Kill Bill analysis. She 100% is the feminine archetype of the dangerous mother bear, avenging her unborn child and destruction of her future of a normal motherly life that many women want but she could never have. That’s why I look at Beatrice Kiddo as the ultimate female heroin. There is nothing inherently masculine in revenge, it’s the motivations behind it that can sometimes differ. Quentin got it right (or the graphic novel it’s based on) imo
Exactly! This guy is playing into stereotypes meaning this video turns out to be ultimately hypocritical and pretty much demeaning to women.
I completely agree with you.
The act of revenge in movies are often played by a male role so when a character of the opposite gender walks in with the motivation to avenge whatever it is they’re avenging it’s always perceived as masculine, general stuff like this can make creating a strong female character more difficult as people will often think of them as masculine which can often destroy the creators idea of making a female character. The main character of kill bill will always remain as a great example of a strong feminine character to me no matter what people will say.
cynicallygreen How exactly does him getting one thing wrong ruin the video lol.
I just found it ridiculous he looked at Kill Bill Pt 1. without referencing the sequel at all. If you've seen both the films, you are given so much more context to why The Bride is who she is, and i so hell-bent on revenge. And the "death of her femininity" statement is also ridiculous if you've seen the 2nd part. It's the death of her freedom from Bill, being able to have a normal, fulfilled life, and a chance for her child to live in a world un-tethered to the sins of her father. Not to mention her pregnancy completely changes her outlook on life. And being pregnant is something exclusive to the experience of being a woman and it's completely ignored.
He says “this movie doesn’t tap into a distict female experience” however 1. She was pregnant during her wedding. 2. at the end of vol. 2 she realizes she is a mother with is probably the MOST distinct female experience.
I don't think feminity is a weakness. Do you have to be masculine or act like men to be strong? No.
.... Yes
@@RainingSaturn not really
@@theimplications635...... Yea
@@RainingSaturn how?
@@theimplications635 don't give a fuck
This is a great take on writing women, but there is one thing I'd like to add. Throughout the video, you referenced masculine traits in female characters as being strong and powerful and made out the feminine traits to be on the vulnerable, weaker side. I believe that there is a great power and strengthy in femininity that has yet to be explored in both cinema and video essays.
Like you said there are very few positive traits traditionally considered feminine in popular culture, or at least fewer than there are positive traits considered masculine. But have you seen this video essay on femininity in cinema? I found it pretty awesome.
/playlist?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7EjlefWLnxCzLbBHU4Dz6R
ruclips.net/video/wmR8A1a8shk/видео.html
I did not but I have now. That was very good, and thank you so much for pointing it my way!
Exactly! This video was pretty much hypocritical and sexist because of this, using the word 'masculine' in association with strength, aggression etc. is so wrong.
cynicallygreen Oh, for crying out loud. Have you ever read any feminist theory in your life? Masculinity is associated with strength and other positive traits because it was constructed to be this way. Femininity and masculinity are used to solidify a gender hierarchy based on sex so they aren’t “equal but different” characteristics. People are not sexist for pointing out that masculinity is of higher value because this is the reality of living in a sexist society which made them so. Throughout all the ages people have had to “perform masculinity” to be respected and to elevate status as gender is learned behaviour rather than innate. Femininity is not deemed positive outside of individualist practise or its benefits to masculinity.
"There's no wrong way to write women."
*Honey, you got a big storm comin*
maybe you should express your opinion more respectful
No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the how than the what, when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
Ryan who they’re joking. And I see no signs of disrespect anywhere lol
Already got people in tbe comments claiming there are wrong ways to write women as if thats something you just get to decide and not just an opinion
Classic Disney princesses, anyone?
"does not seem to tap into a distinctly feminine experience" 6:03. I understand what you're saying here but I totally disagree. The bride being murdered while pregnant is an experience as distinctly feminine as being scrutinized at work/gazed at for being a woman like the case of Silence of the Lambs. I think there's a lot about Kill Bill that makes it a distinctly feminine story. The whole movie would read much differently if she wasn't a mother.
This dude seems to think that because she's ruthless and Badass, she's masculine? To me her mama bear shit is a classic female fantasy. It just uses a bunch of masculine tropes.. But isn't that a part of the fantasy, too? Getting shit done the way I man is allowed to.
"O that I were a man! I would eat his heart in the marketplace!"
The bride in Kill Bill has quite a moving realization when she finds out she is pregnant. This is certainly a uniquely feminine experience.
ChuckSmallvilleLOTR also when the woman sicario decide not to kill her because she is pregnant! A man sicario would have killed her
I appreciate you both mentioning these scenes. They do seem to question my assumption that The Bride is exclusively masculine. I will say, Tarantino is still tapping into the "code" of old masculine Westerns --- watch the scene right before the final duel in Once Upon a Time in the West. Both men follow these arbitrary rules about how the duel is supposed to take place, as if there is some "decent" way you're supposed to kill someone. Of course, an exact replica of this "code" is at the beginning of Kill Bill, when Bill won't kill The Bride because she is in a coma, something along the lines of "it's not fair to kill somebody when they can't defend themselves." The pregnant scene is the same deal -- she's pregnant, so it violates the "rules." I didn't want to mention that scene because it opens up a whole new can of worms, but I will say that Tarantino is STILL using masculine ideas of honor, justice, and "getting what you deserve" and applying them to two female characters. So despite a scene that is clearly a female experience -- finding out you are pregnant -- it's still encapsulated in this masculine vibe. AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT AT ALL. But it is worth noting. This is Tarantino's hallmark, and also what makes him such a great director, taking characters who never got to be traditional action heroes and letting them be the traditional hero -- Women, Black People, Jewish people. But the tradeoff is that he has to sacrifice some of the feminine, black, or jewish experience in order to let them fulfill the fantasy of being badass. I would love to hear your thoughts.
I do see the plot as The Bride losing her possible life as a woman. But Bill’s Superman speech revealed that she never really changed. The life she lost, as a traditional wife, was just her “secret identity”. Then at the end, she became a mother. The role of gender and sex in the Kill Bill movies is over-simplified in this video.
@@karlmuster263 i agree. she takes on a masculine role in order to become a mother.
The ending of Kill Bill 2 kind of subverts your expectations that she'll have a victory the exact same way as her male counterparts, too. She still gets her revenge though
While I understand what you’re saying, I feel like if you’re calling a want for revenge and taking actions to get it a “masculine” thing, then even you are blinded to the complexity and realness of women. Revenge is a human temptation, not gendered, which can be seen in the many historical wrongdoings and triumphs of men and women. I’ll assume you’re gendering them based on previous movies featuring solely men in these roles, and not because you think revenge is masculine itself, but even if that was the case, you’re narrative of “write complex female characters” seems warped when you call a female character who doesn’t fit your stereotype of a woman “masculine” and not “complex.” It just seems a tad odd to me!
I agree
I don't think he was necessarily adhering to those standards himself out of his own personal molds but rather reflecting on how tropes are subjected (as feminity and masculinity are pretty much tropes on themselves).
Yeah, it definitely sounds like he’s playing a lot of what he doesn’t realize are stereotypes and, therefore, literally contradicting his own point
If anything, women are the ones hellbent on taking revenge and destroying peoples lives.
Yeah, I was also confuse. His video didn't have a point it was trying to bring accross, it was just a bunch of examples.
"Kill Bill has a woman playing a masculine role."
Oh man, you must not know many mothers.
RIGHT?? That's all I could think about during that portion of the video.
I know right? She showed like, no aggression while she killed all those people. Totally not a masculine trait.
LOL Right.
He said “a masculine role” as in role in a movie, like the kind of movie part a man would play, not a role in the world
I mean, those mothers are indeed masculine in character, but they’re still Women
I feel like everyone needs to watch ghibli films for their incredible female characters.
AGREED spirited away is my favorite movie and their woman characters are so well made
I’m not really a fan :/ I feel like their girl characters are really screamy and dramatic and it’s a little annoying... but the movie about the moving house is indeed fantastic! I love it so much!
Goat Koala Г.С huh 👁👄👁 first of all 1. The only female characters that are screamy and whiny are the little girl characters that are 3 years old. And if it’s not, it’s used as a starting point to pave the way for character development. second, the adult female characters don’t do that. third, those are only in the American dubs, American dubs are way too cartoonish and overreacting. Just watch the japanese audio w subtitles
@@rat1709 agreed. I grew up with the Spirited Away dub, and loved it, but Chihiro's voice did at times annoy me as an adult. Then i watched the sub a while back and adored it. The dub is great and i have a soft spot for it, but the subs are just so soft on the ears, i don't know how to explain it😂😂
but screamy dramatic and annoying? Never. Human? Yes.
Princess Mononoke was cool
I, for one, like to think that the hero in Kill Bill is a way to prove masculine heroes aren't masculine at all. They're just characters.
YES
That is a really interesting take on it.
What does this mean?
Then I guess you would agree both feminity and masculinity are arbitrary standards for classifying human character? Even then I think we can't deny that it is a trope that was often reserved to male characters and a female character taking on the role represents a subversion of it (or at least did in those earlier takes. It's pretty much become a trope of its own by now).
I think that although we should strive to stop gendering behaviour ignoring its relevance in current times and media may be a bit of a waste when you could further exploit their potential to be analyzed within a referential framework, in contrast to enabling the status quo or missing out on some narrative goods by going in as a complete outsider. Unless you just wanna have fun that way, that's perfectly fine too. Just a contribution with my own perspective though.
Exactly! This video pissed me off so much because it was so the opposite of what it was actually trying to preach. This person needs to educate themselves more if they're a male making a video about writing women.
Bit off topic, but the way this video mixed when Clarice told her story of the lambs, combined with when she actually goes down Buffalo Bills basement was quite the eye-opener!
I hadn't realised the similarities earlier. She was in some ways re-living that old trauma again...
lol how could you miss that, it's in the title!
Yeah, but I hadnt quite realised the similarities with confronting Buffalo Bill in his basement, and her old memory of searching for and finding the lambs in the basement. The similarities were shown beautyfully in this video.
Ahah same, felt like facepalming
Duh...
Damn now I have to see ladybird!
And for the record, there is a wrong way to write/portray women...Michael Bay does it quite consistently.
Michael Bay does a lot consistently, little of it good.
Is there really though ?
It all depends on your moral values which is worth a whole life of debate on its own.
And even if a universal moral ground was found (which is impossible in itself), you'd still have to debate whether or not means of expression like litterature, cinema or video games need to abide by those rules.
Which I don't think they should.
(I don't disagree with you for the most part, but I'd like to point out that thise is not as clear as you make it sound)
@@arenkai I don't consider it a moral question, I just prefer movies that focus on storytelling and less on seeing how many explosions can be fit in the shortest time possible.
I would say there is a wrong way to portray women. It's not wrong to focus on a person's sexuality in a story, so long as it relates to the story. If the female character is only there to be an eye candy reward, I'd say the character was done wrong, because it will pull me out of the story to see characters used as things. It is just a personal opinion, but I think it's one that a lot of people share to some degree.
He did in another comment that it's a pun but you can't catch it because he's says it "there is no wrong way to RIGHT women"
arenkai you are correct! Everything is fluid, life is chaos! But I think anyone who thinks a woman is an object is a piece of shit and shouldn’t be making movies with corporate partnerships.
Lessons From the Screenplay, Sideways, and Now You See It all updating within two days? I feel blessed
Shannon Wiggins SAME MAN
Ahh, I love that I know all of these channels. It feels so good to be in the know know of knowing things ☺️
And two of the, talked about Silence of the Lambs
Here's a concept you missed: "Women are human."
Dude i was just flipping through an old book i have from the 1850s called extraordinary lives, about people who did great things i guess, but the chapters are arranged into categories like politicians, scientists, artists, whatever, but then there is a separate chapter called WOMEN lol. Interesting planet we live on... It’s funny how no woman thinks of men as being a separate species for lack of a better word, but even the little dude who made this video who probably pays good money from his parents to take gender studies classes in college hah, even this little millennial dude is making content like this that is derived on a base level from a fundamental view of women being a derivation on the original model. we should be grateful he gave us his rib ladies haha
@@digitalsalsas women are completely different though & it's only now when we get to look back in leisure & judge the course of human history. They are unlike men, a lamer example being most of them shrieking because there is a bug on the wall, but in the man's mind, grabbing something to capture the bug with is his first priority. Men stormed the beaches of Normandy, not women. Women can give birth & biologically nurture an infant, a man can't. I don't understand all the animosity. Women should admit they suck too. P.s. never heard anyone talk as much shit about a women, than Another Woman.
@The Earth Is Dying Because Of You yep, humans suck. I question anyone who seems to talk down to other people. I don't care what u got between your legs, I just care about your individual actions. Later
CommonClayoftheNewWest are you saying the reactions to seeing a bug are gendered????? I have had to collect bugs from rooms for so, so many men because they were too scared. You don’t have a very realistic view of life if you genuinely believe that reactions like these are not only based on gender, but also warrant the need to separate women’s achievements into a lesser category. I’m not sure you have experienced and spoken to a wide range of people if you don’t think that women and men can share exceptionally similar characteristics. Also I can guarantee that men bitch about women just as much as women do. You are trying to sound logical, but your logic is based off of blatant stereotypes, and it sounds like you haven’t had much real-world experience in your life to be drawing from.
@@kiaz1st yeah they aren't lesser. Were equal, just different. Im Pretty sure it wasn't your grandma dropping behind enemy lines in the 101st airborne, back when millions of Men were murdering eachother in WW2 (though women played a massive role behind the front line) I try being a realist. Obviously women can be just as resilient in ways & certainly not every man is, manly. Good for you, being one of the special ones but generally speaking, its not like I'm spewing lies so man up!, right? Society tells us to suppress our emotions as a male on a daily basis. Therefore, Welcome.. to 2020's equality! No cherry picking equal rights here,. Maybe join skyscraper construction or work in the sewers of cities, bcuz statistically speaking, there's a severe lacking of women in those departments. Thx
Honestly the fact that "the woman experience" can be a theme in and of itself says so much about society
Well, we have "the man experience" too. But since the beginnings of cinema (and earlier) it has been relabeled as "the default experience.""
George Felton soyboy
LordDoucheBags Really got ‘em there, didn’t ya?
Keyboard Cockatoo Yup, I’m in physical pain from “lorddouchebags” keyboard warrior prowess. And then they found $100. And all the other incels clapped. And Albert Einstein was there, for some reason
@@LordDoucheBags the right says we cant meme but they have like three jokes
Ladybird's characterizations of the mom and daughter was insanely accurate and real. The Good Will scene was on point and hilarious.
"I take a man, and I take away reason and accountability" - The most telling line of how media saw women overall until very very recently.
EXACTLY! This quote almost made it into the video (great movie, btw).
This is not an accurate statement. Hell, even the movie you are quoting showed the contrast with that statement. There are a LOT of strong female characters with reason and accountability going back decades, as illustrated in the video you just watched. Was the quoted mind set more common? Yes for sure. Of course now we are reaching a polar opposite mindset where the way the "media" defaults to write women is as a Mary Sue. We will find a balance some day. PS - this is not a knock with the Mary Sue thing. Keanu Reeves and Vin Diesel have made a career out of playing Mary Sue's. More so a product of lazy writing than sexism in my opinion.
RogelioDelaToro Solid point.
the Lost Q Many of the best female characters are "Mary Sue's." Clarice and Ripley would fit the criteria, and they're beloved. The Bride is a cheap caricature and the girl in Lady Bird is so realistic it renders her completely uninteresting. We're going to keep finding things problematic till there's nothing left to write about.
The mainstream media has proven itself to be unreliable, just like how it loves to label women as irresponsible, it labels men just as often as abusive and homophonic when the narrative is convenient.
I like how you touched on the fact that we need ALL these different types of characters for women. I hate when people only want to see the cliche-and often bland-Strong Female Character type. As a 17-year-old girl, I love being able to see plenty of different types of complex female characters on screen, flaws and all; it makes for a much more interesting story.
In addition, I think it’d be cool to see more female comic relief characters. Movies really seem to lack in that area unfortunately.
Lily Sullivan thank you for saying that! The only female comic relief characters I can think of off the top of my head is the “fat pervy girl” and I really want more than that lol.
Keyboard Cockatoo I know right! It’s really disappointing :/
Lily Sullivan Definitely
This was just fantastic, the editing comparing Clarice’s traumatic lamb story with her saving Buffalo’s victim was so well done.
This is a great video as always, but I kind of disagree with saying that The Bride is a masculine character. Why? Because she's tough? Kills a lot of people, is portrayed as aggressive and violent and fights a lot? Is seeking a cinematic level of vengeance? I wouldn't say those things are *Literally* masculine, I'd say that's more our stereotype that we all buy in to. Really, if we think about it, I think The Bride acts as excusively like a fictional character, reguardless of gender. That masculine ideal of being a tough heroic badass taking out ninjas and whatnot is a total fictionalized myth. No man is like that, whether they want to be or not. It's an idea. The Bride of Kill Bill I feel is more like Ripley how you described; A character that is written for a cinematic story, who just happens to be a woman.
Also great insight into Silence of the Lambs here, that was very interesting, and other than the moments where the groups of cops look at her while shes there as if she's an outsider, I hadn't considered the whole movie to be about gender and the whole character to have so much meaning in just her gender. Makes me appreciate it more actually.
Lastly, funnily enough I think those characters of Lady Bird probably best represent every real person, man or woman, more so than any of the three main one's you discussed, just simply because that movie's a lot closer to reality, or atleast, a normal, average person's reality. Like being a man I still feel like the characters of Lady Bird would be more relatable to me than the ultra badass Bride or the capable and tough Ripley just because Lady Bird is a lot more grounded in general.
Ok, essay or whatever the hell this was is over. Sorry if my point's come accross stupid or not in the way I intended... In the end, awesome job as usual
She is stereotypically masculine, that's what he's getting at. The whole point is that she is replacing a man in a role that for most of cinematic history has been reserved for the male - although I don't think he's correct on the whole revenge = masculine thing, because the idea of a mother avenging the death of the unborn child she was carrying is a nigh female-exclusive experience. (Not to mention, the stereotype of the aggressive "mama bear" defending her children)
So many times where I’ve watched a movie or tv show, the stark differences in how the male and female characters are written stand out like a sore thumb. Where the male characters have personal goals and struggles relating to their story, the women are written to only have goals and struggles relating to a male figure (often the protagonist), and little else. The director would have very obviously thought deeply about the character arc, motivators, and ideals of the male characters, and then have only thought about the woman in regards to how she thinks about the male characters. Rarely do I get to see a female character with a well-rounded personality, goals outside of the men in her life, and a satisfying and deep-meaning character arc that doesn’t revolve around the male protagonist.
What are your thoughts on Imperator Furiosa? Because she literally *drives* the movie, but her struggles do stem from how men treated her.
Damn you must not watch a lot
Of movies or tv shows theres
Many & a multitude of female
Charecters that are compelling
And have well rounded personalities you just
Ignore them like most
People do, Because
People unironically see
All women as victims
and always downplay
Their accomplushments
Or charecters that are
Well written because
The Victim mentality
Is too strong
Reducing women
To just victims
Taking away their
Agency or responsiblity.
"There is no bad way to write women"
Stephen Moffat would like a chat.
haha I thought something similar in that of course there are wrong ways.
I think the argument there would just be that while there are obviously wrong ways to write women there are obviously wrong ways to write men as well and we can chalk it up to bad writing in general.
It doesn't quite register because I speak it, but it's a pun. "There's no WRONG way to RIGHT Women."
LOL
@@NowYouSeeIt you sly dog
Moffat wrote some good female characters; Sparrow, River (Season 4-5), Amy, Bill Potts, Nancy, Kovarian, Adler (arguably)
I love everything in this video except the line 'there's no wrong way to write women'.
I think its true. Its not about writing a woman. Its about writing a good character. If you write a good character, then it doesnt matter if its man or woman.
@@Ora_ except a good character almost always has an actual gender and therefore will be better if they express that somehow at least at some point
Ora Not true. Go look at r/menwritingwomen
You can seriously fuck it up,
That, and him classifying a female fbi agent under a "fantasy" like a space explorer or assassin. I'm pretty sure women can work for the fbi.
@Syafiq Razip No, there is no wrong way to write any kind of character. You can make every type of character interesring, with the right story... Its more the how than the what, when we talk about quality. And just like in real life, there are all kinds of people.
This is the thing, I like gender being ignored in fantasy (like superhero movies and Star Wars and stuff) but I’m okay with it when it’s important (like you pointed out in silence of the lambs)
Good video.
onyourleftbooob 100% was gonna say OP must be a man or at least a bit blind at times lol
...I say ‘how I prefer female characters to be written’, and somehow that implies I like how it’s currently being handled....okay.
Yes I am a guy.
And no, I don’t like how the female characters are being handled in most modern fantasy...because they are doing it wrong.
Stars Wars Episode 7 was aggravating to me because they didn’t go for a more original story and instead went for soft reboot, and most annoyingly they broke certain lore. Plus they didn’t develop Reys character enough and she lacked a motive for me. Nothing to do with her being a woman, but just lazy/safe writing. (People only pointed out that she was female because she seemingly was the most powerful Jedi without an ounce of training or even guidance how to use force, where as every male character did...to some degree, not an issue for me)
Episode 8 was kind of the same, only that didn’t ignore gender for me, it specifically wrote most of the Male characters as hot head idiots, and the females as more condescending authoritative, where it doesn’t specifically make gender an issue through dialogue but if you know a thing about writing you can easily see how the writers wanted to portray certain characters. Rey was far more interesting in the film but it ultimately felt like it was playing catch up from what JJ simply avoided doing in episode 7. Again, not a problem with Rey, but more aggravated by lore breaking and bad writing...and directing at times too.
Now I’m fine with a female character being in charge/authorative/smarter then a male one, but when you specifically make men hot head and stupid, it’s rather like writing women as weak minded and flimsy damsels, it’s a false perception of the other sex and kind of a stereotype.
Rogue one wasn’t exactly a great movie either but on the gender aspect I actually liked that film as It becomes an invisible issue. I just like immersive writing. That’s all I want. I’m bit of a film snob.
The captain marvel situation is another recent discussion about this, but I feel my main issue with that is how Brie Larson made the film political in the press. Instead of letting the movie do the talking, they have to put a label on it now and I don’t personally agree with that. People are sick of politics now and that’s why they like gender to be ignored, they want to escape from it. That’s why movies like alien appeal to me more.
onyourleftbooob
Could you at least apologise for the mistake you made?
onyourleftbooob-a position of privilege? I assume you aimed that to me, You don’t know anything that me and my family has had to go through.
And yes that’s fine for them to make movies like captain marvel, even if they have feminist agendas, but men simply won’t wanna go see it when they are being generalised by the main actress in it.
Anyway, I posted a comment, I don’t want a thread of debating. I like gender being invisible in fantasy, that’s it.
@@TheArsenalgunner28
I personally don't think gender should be invisible in fantasy. If the writer wants to say something about gender, they can definitely use it in their fantasy setting, as well as race. Being a fantasy story doesn't exclude a fantasy world from having similar issues that we have in the real world. Even Avatar: The Last Airbender tackled gender a few times. I personally think fantasy that isn't afraid to delve into real problems from time to time are the better ones. ATLA wouldn't be nearly as good if it ignored these things.
I like this video. Writing a good woman isn't as simple as "just write it the same as a guy". Men and women may be equal but they undeniably think differently and have different experiences and views. So they should get movies exploring that.
True, but i also don't think the author of this videos focus on emotions as being a more feminine take on women is accurate either.
@@tadhgmcgrath1409 I don't think he said that
This is incredibly transphobic. Don't you know gender is just a social construct? BIGOT! /s
@@yeahiagree1070 very funny. For me, as a woman, different thinking means: planning beforehand my way home in the night, thinking that i should be liked by everybody (which is, from my experience, more common for women) or problem saying no.
Johanka C.
No of those are inherently feminine.
I mean there are plenty of women who don’t plan a way back home, there are men who want everyone to like them and women who are perfectly cable of saying no if they want to.
Sure their could be a slight bias, but these certainly aren’t universal and they aren’t even significantly different ways of thinking. It’s just being more responsible/sociable.
Something interesting happened when I watched Ladybird. I watched it in the theatre with my friends. When it finished most of my male friends (and me) thought it was ok at best and boring at worst, whereas my female friends all liked it. I reckon we (the boys) couldn't connect with the protagonist as much as the girls could because they shared many more similar expiriences with her and thus they felt much more identified.
Bautista Alonso I watched it with a few girls I was living with and at the end myself and a few of them were really emotional, whereas some of them thought it was boring and didn’t relate. I guess it’s more of a personal experience rather than a universal female experience!
I’m a woman who found it considerably boring. Maybe it’s coz I can’t relate to American teenagers lol
Lol i'm a girl and i also thought it was ok at best and boring at worst. I prefer other Greta Gerwig movies.
@@ALBUMOF2008 Same here! The protagonist seems too basic, white, middle-class angsty American teenager for me to relate to her. X-D
I’m a guy and I loved it
Probably because I can relate to the whole going to University plot line as I had watched it just after starting
The kind of mother/daughter relationship in lady bird is actually very similar to the relationship I a guy had to my mother, which is why I liked the movie so much.
You deserve so many more subscribers, this channel is legitimately the best movie/film based channel ive ever seen and is edited perfectly. Every video ive seen on this channel has surprised me in the significance of each subject and has changed the way I see the art of films. Keep it going man, its a sin that cinemasins has more notoriety.
This may sounds weird, but whenever I need to write a great female character, I always use my mother as reference, because most of the time mother figures have all the trait of a great female character.
Moms are usually kind and sweet, but also tough and badass, they can be flawed, but they are always the one we seek for counsel
tang roro every time i need to write a GREAT male character, i think of tang roro. he is so believable and dynamic, he is my only reference for half the population because i see the rest of men as a special interest group. cute!!
James Cameron thought the same thing! He modeled ripley and sarah connor off of his mom, who always supported his dreams. Funny,tho, that he respected women in cinema but not in real life. Being married 5 times, he certainly didn’t treat his wives well
Fully obsessed with your visual essays. Thank you for sharing your thought processes and analytical sensibilities to us. So very appreciated.
"Ripley could be a man or a woman and it would be just as good." ...in a movie that plays on fears of sexual assault and sexual violence...
Also Aliens is literally ABOUT motherhood
but Alien is not about motherhood, and played on the fear of sexual assault from a male perspective. I hear Ripley was a man in the screen play for Alien. In contrast, Aliens was written with a female character in mind and this is where motherhood came in.
Something to note in Kill Bill: In some ways the story definitely ties back to her womanhood, especially with regard to her motherhood. Leaving Bill and the life of a world-class assassin to protect her unborn child? Uniquely feminine experience. Her pain and anguish when she wakes up from her coma to realize that she is no longer pregnant and her baby is gone? Uniquely feminine, and a scene with a profound emotional impact. Her reaction to realizing BB is alive after all, and going to happily relish parenthood? Not uniquely feminie, but it brings her motherhood storyline full circle. Actually, one of the things I love about Kill Bill is that The Bride manages to retain her womanhood in this way while also being a masculine badass.
There are two kinds of people, people who liked Lady Bird, and people who have not watched Lady Bird.
I thought the trailer looked awful, like a really cliche "I'm so edgy" teenage rebellion film. I guess I'll have to give it a chance.
@@dbrant90s the joke went over your head skskdjs
mankytoes I was the same when I watched the trailer. I was so put off, and it looked like something that had been done a hundred times before. But my dad loves going to the cinema so I decided to go and see it with him, thinking to myself that if it was as terrible and cliched as I thought it was going to be, only two hours of my life would be wasted.
I’ve watched ladybird five times since then.
And me.
@@AS-yj5ru it didn't
Lady Bird was actually liberating to watch because if never seen such a realistic depiction of a mother daughter relationship. The most subtle, supposedly un-dramatic scenes like when she tried on the dress or when the mum drove away without saying goodbye made me weep because they were SO close to reality, and especially the relationship I have with my mum.
Type of women I have seen in block buster movies: 1. Sexy vixen: women who are there to tease then arouse a man. Perfect in any shape or form. A prize at the end 2. Perfect wife: house perfect, always have warm food ready for her family, day and night. So understanding and patient. Usually dies early to give a husband a motivation to revange. 3. Crack head mom: there to hurt a man who just wants to do right. Usually has a kid who is unusually smart and nice. 4. Manic pixy dream girl: weird and crazy but somehow considered out of box, wise beyond their weird hair. There to lead lost boys into manhood. By the way, all of them really beautiful and skinny.
Betty G it’s not like men in block busters are particularly complex characters or ugly either
The way I see it, unless the social connotations (i.e. sexism in the workplace) or sexual connotations (i.e. pregnancy) are a crucial element being explored, I feel that the idea of both masculinity and femininity are both illusions. To put it simply, not all men are big and strong, and not all women are damsels in distress.
I think the genderless approach of character writing is really solid, which is part of why I love Ellen Ripley in Alien and Aliens so much. She's not incredibly feminine nor masculine. Her actions and quirks in both movies are just badass, but not like Stallone/Schwarzenegger masculine badass, but something more unique.
so, first of all, I think you're right about that and I absolutely love me a genderless approach to writing characters. it's brilliant.
but then maybe to represent the whole spectrum of the human experience you should just explore ALL the possible ways of writing women (and other minorities who've been misrepresented) starting with adding those exact groups to writing rooms.
because if you tell a group of straight white male writers "write some kind of character but don't specify their gender" they might still default to creating the kind of character they see on screen and identify with the most. even if they're incredibly good and talented it's understandable that that would happen and we'd just get a female character with "traditionally male" traits.
not that that's inherently bad (bc it sort of humanises women, which is a sad thought but anyway) just,, it's only one way of living life, there's more to explore yk.
when you can make a movie about a universally relatable experience that's wonderful. but not telling stories about all sorts of lives, from all sorts of perspectives, that's kind of missing out. I know you weren't saying that it's just my little addition
tldr gr8 idea but we'd probs need diverse writers to make it happen
@@susannam3923 that's a good point, I think I agree for the most part.
"There's no wrong way to write women".... You sure buddy?
Yeah
Holy crap...your juxtaposition of Clarice's childhood story alongside her confrontation with Buffalo Bill is frickin' brilliant! I never realized before how her description of the event mirrors the exact movements she's making through the house.
It’s very simple, actually: treat characters like characters. Gender and race shouldn’t matter. And before anyone gets pissed at me, I’m not saying don’t write diverse characters, I’m just saying don’t have their race or gender be their defining character trait.
That's kind of oversimpligying it though. Gender and race can matter, depending on the story. A slavery movie that ignores race would be kinda silly. Clarice's character is shaped by her gender a lot, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I have never before felt a film resonate with me the way ladybird did. It is one of those films that has such a "feel good" vibe to it while not having a too predictable and simple plot.
And yes, the way they fight etc is so, so relatable.
I don't know how guys interpretted this film but I saw so much of my relationship with my mother in it.
Really love the film.
There's a deleted scene in Alien where Ripley's on Parker's case over the ship repairs, and Parker snarls to Brett 'just one time, man' like he wants to lay a punch on her, and Brett says 'what you'd really like to do is ball her'. Can't imagine that exchange happening if Ripley was a man. In my opinion, everything that was cut from Alien improved it immensely.
Good video! I'd like to slightly counter that the Bride's storyline is largely rooted in the female experience, but not a positive one. The acts of violence that she undergoes with Bill and the men at the hospital are not random, they are acts of violence that specifically threaten women such as rape and forced miscarriage. The Bride is a staple of what strength is perceived by the genders: The strength of men is most often measured by how much violence they can inflict; the strength of women is most often measured in how much violence they can endure. The Bride is a mixture of both, channeling masculine and feminine tropes in different moments of the movie to make her appeal like the most powerful character in the movie, while keeping that compassion towards Nikkia Bell and Gogo Yubari that is most associated with women.
Love this comment, i agree
I watched Lady Bird with my Mum and it felt great to see that kind of relationship explored so well. I often struggle with ‘strong’ female characters because some people seem to think strong means rejecting femininity and vulnerability, essentially just be as masculine as possible. I’d love to see more female characters who embrace those typically feminine traits that are so often seen as weaknesses
"There's no wrong way to write women"
Dan&Dave: Hold my beer
You got it right. A big part of film is exploring the vast amount of perspectives in the world and drawing it in to the human perspective we all have. Movies with women protagonist don't need to be about womanhood; however, there is a perspective that can influence the characters decisions and motives. This is not a bad thing! This is what's great about film! I want to be presented with an authentic depiction of a character in order to empathize with their perspective. Great video!
I watched Ladybird with my mother and my god we were so struck by how honest and accurate it was. So much so we felt it hit too close to home in many scenes.
2:30 through 3:45 that was incredible editing, gave me a new way to watch Silence of the Lambs. Thank you for this incredible channel.
Ripley was actually written as a man, originally. I wouldn’t necessarily say that’s always a good way to write women characters.
Ripley was written gender-neutral, as were all the characters. He talks about this in the first seconds of the video. Your comment is confusing.
TheHopperUK No, the video has it wrong. The original script had Ripley written as a man, but Ridley Scott ended up giving the part to Sigourney Weaver. It’s a very well know production note, google it.
I will! Thanks for the correction, friend!
TheHopperUK S’all good! :D
So heres the thing, the script was written for all characters to be gender interchangeable, that script note he showed was real. Where the confusion lies is that everyone assumed it would be played as a male and they did try to cast a male until at the last minute they decided to cast a female instead.
I love the lamb monologue laid over the infiltration of Buffalo Bill's dungeon. I never realised how perfectly parallel the two stories are until seen side by side.
I'm a girl and really struggle writing women, but writing men is like a walk in the park
Fantastic video. It's also interesting to look at how Ripley's character is developed in the sequel Aliens. The theme of motherhood is introduced and illustrated through her relationship with Newt. Instead of making her vulnerable, it strengthens her character by giving her the motivation to fight back and not just survive
"There is no wrong way to write women"
...
Yes there is, man.
"Long ago, there lived Jane, who strolled down the street with her massive breasts glistening in the sunlight. After turning the corner, her tits bounced when she stumbled with John, the hunk-of-a-man the entire town was talking about. Jane had never seen John up close. Standing before her was a wall of muscles, a chiseled chin, and icy green eyes that gazed down at her with the devil's smile. Jane immediately wet herself, and her nipples got hard and erect. What is going on with me? she thought. This wasn't like her. Why was she getting all flustered before a man who could easily tear her apart with his powerful arms?"
Yup. There are for sure horrible ways to write women. And the example above is one of them. The scariest part is, that example I just created was inspired by REAL authors who have published REAL books. I cannot believe how dogshit some authors--both men and women--can be when it comes to writing characters. Actually insane how they get approved and published. I'm looking at you romance-fantasy authors.
Well done! And nice insight about the symbolisms on Silence of the lambs! This movie never cease to be surprising on each new rewatch.
Usually I really like your videos, but this one fell short imo. You seem to be saying "women can be written like men, like women, or like neither." And well.... yeah? You're not wrong by any means, but I was expecting a little bit more on the ways women are written, portrayed, directed, etc. Maybe comparing some well written women to some badly written ones, could've even brought in Kubrick and his self-proclaimed inability to write women as well as his male characters.
I don't disagree with anything you said, and I'm glad you brought up Ladybird, since that is a great example of a relationship that we have rarely seen in film and one that for the most part only a woman would've been able to write or direct. I just felt like this is only scratching the surface of how women have been portrayed in film and would've liked some deeper discussion.
Maybe this topic just needs a female film critic to dive into the nuances.
That scene with Lady Bird and her mom fighting but then instantly gawking over a dress was the most relatable thing I have ever seen in a movie.
Dude this is a good video BUT your analysis of the Bride is deeply, tragically and unnecessarily flawed. The narrative is split over two films. Vol 2 is not a sequel of Vol 1 it's one continuous story.
The choice to have a continuous (albeit with interspersed flashbacks) narrative in Vol 2 and a non-linear narrative in Vol 1 is VERY deliberate. All the character development for the Bride happens in Vol 2. She ends the film as a mother. Not a killer. Her realization of that is mirrored in the relatively anti-climactic fight with Bill and the play fight that the Bride, BB (her daughter) and Bill have when she first meets BB.
The whole story ends with an integration of the maternal into "the badass". She completes the heroine's journey by merging the masculine heroes journey with an actualization of her femininity. She becomes a whole person by going the masculine side of the revenge narrative and by (literally) embracing her maternal side with BB.
Yes another video!! I've been waiting FOREVER for another one! Thank you!! :D
No wrong way to write women huh?
Ever watched supergirl?
What's wrong with super girl ?
That last line made me look up and remember to hit 'like'. Nice rounded script. 10 minutes is a great length for a RUclips video! I'll always watch a 10 minute video.
What’s ironic about silence of the lambs is how everyone is treating her like an outsider while Hannibal treated her as an equal, in a creepy way sort of
God! Thank you! I loved this so much.
Bring on a future full of stories of women by women. 🌻
Writing women already had me just as a title but as soon as I saw you were using Alien as an example I was double sold
My favorite women in film and TV: Zoe Washburn from Firefly/Serenity, Akeelah Anderson from Akeelah and the Bee, Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy especially Vol. 2, Laura from Logan, Rapunzel from Tangled, Jocelyn Carter from Person of Interest, Diane Nguyen from Bojack Horseman, April Dwyer from Parks and Rec, Misty Knight from Luke Cage, and Ripley from Aliens.
This is a very solid video but it was kinda lacking that you didn’t include any queer women and of color in it. Granted the examples you used are very universal but I also think that there are also nuances and more aspects that could be taken to account. Like how writing women as tough and dominating can be stigmatizing for black women but also subversive for Asian women who are often portrayed as submissive.
With some research I think it could make for an interesting follow up for this video and could also take the conversation to a more interesting place
Danielle Helman YUP!!
Wow overlaying the lecture conversation over the finale was mind blowing
I grew up with two sisters and it has had a huge influence on the way I relate to women. I see the jaw-droppingly ignorant and even grotesque comments posted by some men online and I wonder how they could ever write those things.
Then I think that perhaps they have never been able to relate to a woman as a *person.* Unfortunately, the way our society is structured, it is hard for a lot of men to get to know women as people unless they grow up with them.
And there was nothing in Ladybird that surprised me :)
You assume only men online write about women like that. Be in my shoes as a woman getting bullied by women and men. They can be equally vile to each other believe it or not.
This is actually brilliant. I watched this video weeks ago and keep thinking about it. Thank you for this!
Star Wars Rogue One: Literally one female character
People online: FeMiNiStS ArE TaKiNg OvEr
SandyTheMaster on god bro ppl these days overreact cause there’s a female character as the mc when most general movies have a male role
8:25-8:28 is SO REAL! 🤣🤣🤣
And this is why we need people who live from certain perspectives telling stories too. So many different POVs that often easily go under the radar because it's so nuanced and might seem to be one way from the outside but be completely different to those who actually experience it.
This whole video I was so convinced and I agreed with everything until out of nothing he just went "there's no wrong way of writing women" I-
Ladybird makes me cry every time😭 it perfectly captures the complexities of a modern day mother-daughter relationship like nothing I’ve ever seen before. It’s too real for me and my mom
In the complexity of human experience everybody has a slightly different take on male and female roles and characters. I think that it's a great thing that more and more women are making movies. Every individual sensibility has its own take on the world and on character building: the more people play the game, more exeptional writers emerge. (don't forget there are a lot of bad writers and directors, male and female... That's life)
I absolutely adore your channel, and have for some time now. You put so much effort into them and I truly appreciate it. I want to be an actor, writer and director someday, and channels like yours really help.
I am a 19 year old girl. I love this. I related to ladybird more than any coming of age movie I have ever seen.
well, you’re obviously not 19 anymore, but I’m a 19 year old rn. Ripley and Sarah Connor have always been my favorites!!!
@@trevorfrenk4137 22, graduated and a science teacher, life goes by really fast!
@@wtv2128 wow good for you!!! all the best!
Your back!! I'm so happy, I love your videos!!
I’ll admit I was worried when I read the title. There are countless RUclips videos of men bemoaning certain types of female characters that it made me anxious. The lesson here is handled very well, there are multiple positive ways to represent women in media and there is no “right way” or “wrong way” just as there may be no wrong way to represent a man.
This is really interesting
Lee R and yet there are so many wrong ways to portray women lol
ALBUMOF2008 did I stutter.
There are wrong ways to portray men too...
Lee R there are people who can help you with that
The Silence of the Lambs and Legally Blonde, as a woman, are some of my favourite movies. the silence of the lambs actually being my favourite of all time, clarice is such a strong protagonist.
I don't think kill bill is done quite enough justice here, watching the two volumes back to back you realise how much abuse and torment the bride has gone through. In addition to that although Revenge is a large part of her character, the bride also is very much a female character. The men in the movie objectify her and she often breaks down her façade of stoicism in various parts of the movie. The women in this movie respect each other even when they are contracted to kill each other. There are a whole bunch of gender dynamics which have been completely ignored. It is also important to note that Uma Thurman had a major role in constructing this character.
I think most importantly the introduction of her daughter to the story changes everything showing her struggle is not that of a man but of a women and a mother.
Very good points. There is still a respect amongst all the female assassins in the movie. She's even allowed to walk away once she tells one of her targets she is pregnant. I was surprised how poorly this video essay analyzed the film. Maybe he was only focusing on Pt. 1, but it's not an accurate analysis if you ignore Pt. 2. He even chooses the scene where The Bride kills Buck in Pt. 1 and thinks that has nothing to do with gender?
@@Ray03595 right? The execution of Buck was VERY MUCH a woman's fantasy.
I became a fan in between this and your last video. So I was super excited to consume this asap after burning through your entire collection. You do an excellent job every time. Thank you for your distillations!
This was awesome
Absolutely amazing. Your videos are some of my favorite things on the the interwebs 😊. So empowering.
This is... excuse me.... a DAMN fine video
Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Thanks for this present, Now You See It.
I need to brush my teeth.
7/10
Agent May and Daisy are a perfect example of great writing of women when it comes to mother daughter. They aren’t even related, but their relationship is clear and pure.
"There's no wrong way to write women"? That is such a broad statement. If that's true, is there no wrong way to write men? Or no wrong way to write at all? I'm not mad I just thought that statement was completely out of place after a video of how to write women characters creatively
I thought that gender was fluid and that binary roles are a social construct, so why are you all getting so upset about how one "gender" is being portrayed. Surely it doesn't matter.
@@spenser9908 you try really hard to troll.. youve posted trolling replies to other comments... kinda sad dude, maybe you should spend your time doing something worth while? a bit pathetic.
The line was “there’s no wrong way to right women”
@@TheQwertyman999 seems like he's been quite successful to me
It's a pun, the other guy said it.
I'm any case, yes, there are basically no ways to write a "wrong" female or male character. Why would there be? There are a handful of characteristics that define men and women. Pregnancy, menstruation, being prone to emotional tilting. Are a few for women, this is not an opinion, it's just true and if you doubt it I have evidence.
Men have conflict written in the genes, and the protective instinct.
There are more but these are the the most basic. People are NOT a checklist. People are difficult, and we don't have enough boxes to understand what they are, only by using boxes.
I absolutely adore "The Silence of the Lambs." It seems like such a creepy thing to say, but I think your analysis is pointing out all the things that make it so great. Clarice is so vulnerable, yet strong; so inexperienced, yet clever; and so eager to prove herself to Crawford and several other men, yet she stands up for herself ("it matters"). I think shifting the focus from Clarice to Hannibal is the main thing that made the other movies just gross outs with no real substance (in spite of having great actors).
I feel like the issue is when a writer thinks "how do I write this gender" instead of "how do I write this person". Men and women are different but not that fucking much. Just write a character with like a real person and it works.
no
Rey from star wars is essentially every female character written over the past 5 years or so. Instinctively amazing at everything they do and no obstacles to overcome
Dude, you completely overlooked the thematic importance of Ripley finding out her daughter was dead in Alien 2 and the Bride's motivation of finding her daughter was crucial to her character.
I mean, I understand that's not the point of the video. But that's like, crucial info.
was totally hoping you'd touch on Clairice. super cool video!
"There's no wrong way to write women."
Lol that's a good one.
i miss soooo much your videos
I actually never felt like Uma was portrayed as masculine. Even though traditionally men move the plot along generally, since I was a kid it seemed that she was driven by emotional revenge and anger from pain rather than trying to embody masculine characteristics.
I never got the feeling she was a masculine character. The fact she was a woman was pretty important to the film.
15 years since I first saw it, and I never put the parallels together between Clarice's story of hearing the screaming lambs and her rescue of the senator's daughter. Hot damn, that's clever!
Captain Marvel should have taken lessons from Aliens
This analysis has me crying. I haven't seen Ladybird, but maybe I have to now... Judging from the clips you chose, it perfectly completes the theme of your video, and it made for a powerful conclusion. Thanks :')
Made me want to watch Ladybird again (+ any Greta Gerwig interview that I can watch)
Greta Gerwig is hilarious in interviews.
Hey! U should watch movies that Greta Gerwig wrote and acted in like 'Mistress America' and 'Frances Ha'. They're so hilarious. Personally I prefer them to LB.
Fun fact, just saw Lady Bird two days ago and clicked on this video out of sheer coincidence, and now i know what i love about this film so much
The Fall does a good job with this. So does Broadchurch.