LS BLOWER CAM WARS-LSA vs LS9 vs BTR VS NA
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- FULL BOOST & FULL RESULTS!! The Ultimate blower cam test. Does an NA cam work on a supercharged LS? How does an NA cam compare to a factory LSA, LS9 and Stage-3 PD Blower cam from BTR? We first modified a GM B15 crate motor, then installed a 4.0L Whipple supercharger. We then ran each cam, and compared the changes in power and boost offered by all four.
I’ve been going back and fourth about a BTR stage 2 or 3 cam but I’m definitely going BTR. Thanks for information.
This Channel is the first channel I look at on RUclips. Good guy good information. Good times
I was hoping this would be the test where you compare a much lower LCA cam, like a 109 to a 115+. Hopefully next time on a turbo!
Great video.....love the numbers
Great video Richard!!!!
Must have missed it... Why didn't you rev this thing out to 6,800 - 7,000 rpm? Another good video Richard!
that is exactly how I like to build my engine combos. Every good blower engine starts out as a killer N/A engine. I have always built max engine horsepower before I install the "Power Adder" weather its blower, turbo, or nitrous! Maybe that is why my junk runs a little bit better than my competitors!
So where does the blower cam profile become a better option than the N/A cam? With these results I would rather have the N/A cam in a street strip car, plus they sound better IMO.
Maybe the fact that they don’t use ARP bolts shows that they are not the super power that everyone thinks they are.
the decision is cost
Interesting. So a turbo on a waist gate would automatically bring the boost up and appear more responsive.. the fixed pully blower is the way to test em
Hi Richard, when I was a young lad pit of high school i had a very rumpty rump cam in my Pontiac 350. Have you done any blown tests on a cam like that?
not on specs of Rumpty Rump
Crane 224 cam; 696 lb/ft with 13,2 psi = 364 lb/ft as a theoretical NA engine. 363 hpNA
LS9 cam; 667 lb/ft with 14,7 psi = 331 lb/ft as a theoretical NA engine. That is a almost a 10% loss. Wow.
LSA cam 700 hp @ 17,4 psi = 318 hpNA???
Is this based on just installing the cam or complete cam kit spring and all!!
But what happens when the NA cam gets run at the same boost level as the LSA?
Why didnt you run it out to 7000rpm?
12:42
You would have more subscribers if you would quit making the internet cam gurus look bad.
It's like 2am pacific time. GO TO SLEEP RICHARD!!!!
Its like you're debunking so much of the theoretic info that's used to sell unnecessary parts. I love it! your information is so valuable. Thank you so much for all the great info your share!
Awesome video! Love to see a blower comparison, stock LSA blower vs whipple, vs Magnuson etc what’s the best bang for the buck. And boost levels
Prior to watching your videos I didn’t know what I didn’t know. You’re always running tests that I’d like to see run AND you always explain everything so concisely in a way that easily understood. I share more of your videos that any other channel I watch on RUclips. Well done and thank you.
thnx for sharing
Thank you for running these tests and publishing the results.
Mr. Holdener, A cam for testing maybe Elgin E-1840-P for a LS? Thanks for all the info!
Test all 3 of the budget Elgin Cams!
@@hendo337 Is that like a SSIII ?
The boost stayed low with the N/A cam most likely due to overlap.
Great vid as usual, Thanks!
I was wondering what the overlap was and was to lazy to go do the math
That popped in my head as well. The scavenging effect would let boost shoot through the top of the cylinder. Exhaust pressure would see that too.
boost was down on the na cam cause it made more power
if boost shoots out during overlap-power would be down, not up
@@richardholdener1727 Well not necessarily. You could produce enough CFM to make the power but lose part of your charge through scavenging. Boost is pressure build up against something, like restriction of passage or solid like the valves. Scavenging it when both valves are open and that is technically a leak. Maybe there is enough velocity and compression created by the supercharger to negate that and still fill the cylinder and make the power. You can check this by measuring exhaust pressure to see if that's happening. A turbo would creep a bit because of that effect.
Oh yea I got my coffee and my holdner video. Routine complete 🤘
Powdered rods ARE a forged rod. Powdered metal is loaded into the die and pressed and heated. Grain structure is aligned. No its not the same as a aftermarket forging process.
Lol “B-19” again at end of video!,
Jason E next time it will be a “B-29”
LSA and LS9 good driveability idle, and gas mileage, BTR idle not good and the other NA cam too, yeah more power. only 30 plus average. also comes with the noisy valve train. personally that the worst. also can't pass smog too.
Bad ass testing...have you ever run the same cams on different ci to see the difference in power ...small ci with a huge cam vs smaller cam vs large ci with little cam vs huge cam...BTW if you want some real world testing feel free to send me that blower....hell I'll pay the shipping..lol..lol...just kidding
Hi mate, are you able to do an update of the new BTR PDS STAGE 1 & 2 TORQUE CAMSHAFT vs LS9, Sloppy Stg 2 and previous BTR Stage 3 PDS cam - stock LS3 or LSA motor with 18% pulley only? Good basis for may people with new tech spintron cams.
Jason (Australia) Thanks for the videos, facts and details - welcomed.
what is a tech spintron cam?
@@richardholdener1727 - sorry for the slang, as you know the new BTR cam technology uses the sprintron. “The Spintron uses an electric motor to spin the engine and a high-speed camera, along with a multitude of sensors, to log what the valvetrain is doing”
Boost is a measurement of the RESTRICTION to airflow. That's why the lower boost levels on the boost curves tend to to (but not always) coincide with the strong points in the HP and torque curves.
Would love to see the new Texas Speed BFD cam on a LQ4 or LM7, see how well it operates down low as a mid range performer.
Also curious, is the Lingenfelter GT21 too aggressive for a Stock rocker LM7?
Looks like I'm pulling this ls9 cam out and going with a na cam.
So with NA cam the efficiency up top was compromised by lack of LSA??? After listening to one of BTRs podcasts the exhaust closing event gets complicated,. Brain hurt.
It can be explained a lot easier than with valve events
That Crane cam is a monster! I expect the reason it had lower boost up top but the power wasn't up was from pumping losses. The NA cam is much shorter duration on the exhaust and you are likely getting close to port choking in the heads so the engine has higher pumping losses expelling the exhaust gas.
Great video. Do you have a part # for the Crane cam? UPDATE!!! I found the part # for the Crane Cam 1449121
No, sorry
Is there a part number for the 224 cam kit for an l92?
Can you run test on adding blowers to aftermarket N/A cams? I'd like to see what BTR stage 3 N/A with a blower would do.
it works fine, boost just multiplies what is there NA
CAM-A-SUTRA.......thanks for another great no bs video. you the man.
Arjun Sajeev
Very clever!!
Sounds like I heard a dog in the background drinking out of a toilet😂
Keep up the great work Richard! Awesome!!
two Goldens
Dig your videos. Have you duplicated this test on a Centrifugal SC ? If so, Similar outcome?
same results
Thanks alot for this episode, it will help me on my build.. i think i will keep my NA cam with the tvs Magnuson
Great test answers my questions. Thank you
Your videos are the best. Please dont ever stop.
Watching new Richard Holdener videos is my jam. :)
What would you recommend on a cam and spring setup on a 05 GTO. 6.0 iron block, 823 heads. Lsa supercharger, ls9 kong lid, Headers, 102 tb. 1100cc injectors. I just got the supercharger, injectors. Haven't installed them yet. but I know I need to change the cam out. What would you suggest for cam option. Thanks
a stage 2 or 3 na cam from btr or similar
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for responding I know you played with more of these motors than I've ever seen so you would know a good setup. Love the channel
Good afternoon. I'm running a L92 with a Texas Speed VVT 2.2 Cam. I'm thinking about adding an LSA Supercharger to this engine. Do I need another cam or will the VVT Cam work well with the LSA? Thanks in advance!
IT WILL WORK
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks a million!
Awesome channel. Gets right to the point. Could you do a video with kenne bell vs whipple vs Maggie?
I have some very cool blower dyno info on that
Would the Results be the same if it was a centrifugal blower instead of the Roots style blower?
yes
Amazing video thanks
You should run a motor without an intake that would be hilarious
So you just run full out wot the whole time?
@@kylesonsalla7620 he must own a diesel
Cam Specs: 223/233, .629"/.629", 114 LSA I wonder what this cam will do with a blower?
EVERY CAM WORKS WITH A BLOWER
Have you ever tested the vvt cams with blowers?
Lower LSA MAKES MORE POWER
Richard you've got to work on your microphone setup.
Like to see a dumb cam test. Pick a good cam and then make simple changes like LSA is 115 on base so go 111 and then 108. Next back at 115 go up in lift a couple jumps. Then last back to base lift and increase duration. Cam guys will hate it, but still want to see how thing move. Guess a cam guy would like to move exhaust open then exhaust close, followed by intake open and then close points. That would be interesting too, but more so with cylinder pressure data.
I did the LSA shift from 108-112-116-120
@@richardholdener1727 I'll look for that
@@richardholdener1727 what is it called?
Sorry Richard but I'm kind of like a Hog Looking At a WRISTWATCH when it comes to smartphones and computers. Any way the reason i asked you about the Arizona speed and marine Rochester look alike fuel injection is i would love to put it in my 57 210 2 door wagon i was wondering if there is any reliability issues . I do realize that your more about performance than reliability part . Just wondered what you think before I take the leap.
I have not tested those
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks Richard ,I respect your opinion and your inputs .
Oh ! Yes I'm still a Hog looking at a wrist watch .🤪
We can’t deny gale banks over on his channel trying to tell people boost is a fake number until you consider its air density. I wish we had manifold air density for these tests.
These results don't depend on density. Given that all the tests were conducted with the same blower, spinning at the same speed, density was lowest when pressure was lowest. Due to better VE, the best power was made at the least density.
I don't agree, I think valve timing probably plays a part in manifold air density weather it backs up with a small duration and the air is heated more or with the larger cam the air is heated less combined with the fact that the valves are opening and closing for different durations I would love to see that data
Put that turbo smart waste on the intake with the electronic boost controller. Run a small pulley and forget the rising boost curve. Now they are all even. Might produce excessive heat but boost would come up sharply
I would like to hear some of these sweet whipple noises on the engine Dyno! Great info! But my craving to hear things, turning, spinning, banging and firing has not been met! Short dyno run clips will do!
I wish I had these-I have some coming up
"then we can all complain about it." Lmao! thats too good
What about a turbo cam.
I ran a similar Crane and it was a real beast. Lots of chop, but still streetable.
Can you do a test with the Brian Tooley equalizer intake?
Once again. The NA cam performed excellent with boost
Wow, so the blower cam is not needed to make good power like everyone says. Just another marketing ploy 🙄🤦🏼♂️
Richard, what was the compression ratio of the tested motor? May get some answer. :)
THE B15 CRATE MOTOR IS 9:1-EASY TO LOOK UP
11.0+ compression ratio advised NA cam? :O
LS Series Crane Cams Hydraulic Roller Camshaft (224/232) 115LSA
[1449121] $405.99
Part Number: 1449121
Manufacturer: Crane
Description:
1449511.jpg - LS Series Crane Cams Hydraulic Roller Camshaft (224/232) 115LSA
Click to enlarge
Weekend driver, for modified 5.7L thru 7.0L, choppy idle, fair fuel economy, headers and aft cat exhaust required, 11.0+ compression ratio advised, low ratio gearing required, auto trans w/3000- 3400 stall converter, computer upgrades required.
Lift Intake: .590" / Exhaust .590"
@@richardholdener1727
you should do average hp gain cam test, not just top end, but what cam gives you the most average hp/tq
that's why I provide the curves-so you can see the whole picture
Can you do a video on supercharging a stock lq4?
Thanks Richard. I just watched the video with my off the wall, rambunctious 4 year old and it calmed him down before bed!
I put this b15 in my camaro put the 621/624 LSr comp haven’t fired it up yet it is procharger comp said this is the cam can you give me your opinion on it
Hey Richard, have you or anyone you know checked the ring gaps on one of these b8 or b15's
I have not but mentioned it to the owner
I'd be curious as well. Most likely on the tighter side with that boost limit that they set.
@@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions I had heard the gap was tight but not sure how where I read that
I'm late to the party on this video but good comparison to show power. A great follow up, although too labor intensive, would be to compare drivability. I have an LS9 cam and I have the idle at 700 rpms, and cruises along just fine at 1100 rpm if I ask it to in my 3900lb LS2 V1 with LSA blower. I'm not sure how the other 2 are, but this is a real nice trait to have.
Just goes to show what works NA works blown, love to see a test with a big cam with 107 or so LSA
Whipple is being a parasite. That boost pressure on a 376 should make more power. We are spoiled to the turbos now lol
Running blowers for years on boats and have never went over 112 lsa and have always had great performance
I'm really impressed that you are using Crane Cams ! Those guys know their stuff and the quality is second to none. Their hydraulic roller lifters out perform all others on the market ! When we built 634 c.i. marine motors in 92 they had Crane cams in them ! To be worthy of going into the engine bay of a Cigarette it had to be the best!
Crane doesn't seem to advertise like they used to ?
You give credit to GM engineer in one instance then you dish them ! If you don't want an OEM engineered deal why get one and not an aftermarket piece? Like all OEM deals they are engineered to a spec for a price if you go past that it's on the user isn't it ?
Nice 👍
Thanks for going into the play house
Do you have the exhaust backpressure data? Id like to see which cam was pushing least amount of pressure in the exhaust vs pressure on the intake side.. if you have those numbers.. thanks for all the work you put in!!
It's not going to tell you a lot because it's going to be close to zero.
@@1magnit your probably right.. maybe on a turbo cam the back pressure would be up on some od the cams
How can you call it a true test if you dont get the true power results? Need to rev it till at least peak power.
How about the same test on an LSA crate engine? And pulley swap to even the boost to see stock potential on the LSA
I think on the na cam the long duration on the gtr blower cam took over as engine speed picked up as the engine at higher rpm is to injest more of that air .
before this video i would have laughed at the idea of a n/a cam in boost
Good job Richard
"then we can all complain about it" LOL goodness man that was great!
The lsa vs ls9 is crazy how close for the difference in lift and duration is surprising to me
hay rich i have a c3 corvette 2-4 tunnel ram can i put turbo on it i never seen it done yet i have a 454 in it.??
What I found interesting is the BTR PDS Stage 3 selection. I am currently running a 408LQ9/4.5 Whipple Combo and BTR recommended himself the 227/242 122+6 cam knowing our target of 1500hp. Did you happen to find out why the N/A cam performed better below 6,500 rpm?
Too late to help you but responding for anyone else checking later. The NA cam did better below 6500 because it had an earlier IVC (less intake duration and smaller LSA) and peaked earlier. The BTR would have whooped up if the engine had revved higher.
Richard awesome video. I have a LS3 with forged pistons, double springs, 229/244 .629/.615 114 LSA NA cam. Will an LSA with stock pulley be safe on 93 with good tune? I’d rather not lower compression and hoping more compression with less boost will average out. Thanks!
stock compression?
The audio on these videos is almost always cringe worthy
Love watching your videos Richard. I am in the process of cam swap on my ls1 c5 corvette also I’m doing heads and was looking for a set of 706 heads from watching your Dyno head test. I didn’t find a set and couldn’t pass up a set of 243 with a valve job and being decked by machine shop for $300. Keep up the great work sir.
243 works well on the LS1
That Crane cam did great! Would a Sloppy Stage 2 cam make similar power? Great videos keep them coming.
EZElk ss2 would be similar between ls9 and btr cam.
Have you ever tested different engines at specific comparable power levels to see which is more fuel efficient at reaching said power level?
I have not fuel efficiency testing on the dyno
@@richardholdener1727 I suppose there would be a safety concern drawing fuel from a cell inside the dyno room. (being able to see consumption after x amount of pulls etc) I've always wondered for example if a 4.8 making 400-500hp NA would consume less fuel than a 5.3/6.0 making the same power.
Higher CR = more efficient, bigger stroke more efficient. Reason why 5.3 is more efficient than 4.8. Mpg would depend on many variables such as vehicle weight, gearing and, transmission.
Super cool test , the na cam was the best. What was the part number?
I'd like to hear your chart analysis on gold and silver ect.
sell those and buy BOOST!!
@@richardholdener1727 LMAO! Right.
Have you ever tested a cam close to a 231/236 595/595 111lsa i have it in a turbo ls1 and it seems to work good
that should have good power
Perhaps the typically tighter lobe separation angle on an NA cam was blowing some of the charge straight out of the exhaust causing the lower boost up top but since it was wasting some of the charge it was also making less power than the boost cam. I have no experience on the matter, just thinking based on things I have learned.
its not blowing boost out the exhaust-you want lower boost and higher power
I personally would use the N/A cam on a street driven vehicle. I prefer low end torque over high rpm horsepower. I think the N/A cam is more efficient due to valve timing events relies on atmospheric pressure and lsa to maximize cylinder fill rates. Just my opinion.
I would if it was a heavy vehicle like a truck but a really lite car I would use a dedicated blower cam.
I LOVE the 4.8 stuff! I love watching you build huge power from that little LS!!! I’ve got a burning desire to see it twin-charged!!! Maybe have the supercharger feeding the turbo inlet, with a tiny pulley on the supercharger and a ridiculously oversized turbo. Can you make it happen? I know you can! But before you start, get yourself about a 4 or 5 bar map sensor! I wanna see some record-setting BOOST!!!
You are going to have a tough time putting the turbo after the supercharger on an engine. A turbo feeding a supercharger is easy however.
Good stuff like all your content is.