Timestamps: Pt.1: Addressing some comments on sterilization (0:00) Pt.2: Endospores and causes of their abundance (1:16) Pt.3: Grades of grain and cleanliness (3:20) Pt.4: Test Results: Clean vs dirty grain colonization (5:21) Pt. 5: Anaerobic jars and stalling growth (9:55) Pt.6: What are PF/BRF cakes? (10:37) Pt.7: Thoughts on liquid culture (LC) (12:34) Pt.8: Fruiting plans (13:35) 1) Patreon Replacement (memberships for videos and monthly genetics): tinyurl.com/mycosage 2) Mentorship and Genetics, I don't bite!: mycophilia.official@gmail.com 3) Discount codes in description I hope you all have a great day or night! 🍄💜 Sage
I only use food grade rye as well. It has made a profound difference in lowering contamination rates. It's ironic that you're making these videos, because I almost simultaneously switch to brown rice as. I'm finding there's not a lot of information on prep. If you'd like to share your process, I'm all ears!
@@Loader138 video coming up one of these days, but very simple. For regular brown rice: boil water fully, then add grains and simmer on low-medium heat for 9 mins. Then rinse thoroughly with cold water, and then strain vigorously to get rid of as much excess moisture as possible. Once no water is falling off the colander after a vigorous shake, then I will load into jars and sterilize in my instant pot for 2 hours.
It's nice to find people who know what they're doing on RUclips. I've learned a lot from your bacterial grain video & this one. Might try brown rice because all my bags & jars of oats & wbs are all spikey with some sneaky 1 or 2 grains that won't colonize fully. I hate it, it's so frustrating.
Great stuff as always Sage. Would love a video on how you prepare your brown rice jars. I've tried it once and they all got contam, I think probably from being too wet. Seems so difficult and sticky compared to popcorn
From my research and experience endospores can survive heat only when they are in the dormant stage and heat is a great catalyst for waking them apparently soaking in heated water for a few hours allowing them to cool for a few more then drying and pc or pc twice first time for one hour then again for two hr. or something like that. This gives the endospores time to wake up so they are vulnerable. Or you could just source grains that don’t have as many endospores. I hope that helps.
Yes, sounds like you’re trying to describe a process called tyndallization, and it was used more commonly in the past before PCs were fully adopted. Again, my grains were fine. Until a moth infestation; they were not bought as dirty grains.
Thanks for the info on quart jars full of grain and there being lower oxygen. I just started using quart jars for spawn and wondered why it was going so slow. 🍄❤️
I use feed grade oats for my spawn. I soak them for 24+ hours then drain and bag them. Do you think that soaking the oats in lime water would kill off the endosperm?
If you are having no problems currently then I would not bother, but a little bit can certainly help during the soak or boil. You can also wash, then rinse well with a little soap before soaking.
Just now getting into this field and your videos have been super helpful. I've either received bunk spores or a dry spawn bag so I figured I'd do a little more digging and ran into this channel. Keep the videos coming.
Interesting about the organic grains. I've always spent the extra for human grade organic grains. Sounds like a mistake although I haven't had many issues. Going to give brown rice a go again. Thanks brother, always great content!
Smart smart man, great morning education or afternoon or evening or night really anytime. Never got bad info from you sage. Your knowledge is so valuable 🍄
hey sage, perfect topic for me rn. sterilised rye grain almost 2wewks ago. been holding out for some lc. wondering if I've left them too long., but sounds like not. thanks for the knowledge ❤
Would you recommend a BRF cake for a beginner like me?. I've been watching some videos, and it's kinda "safer" for the extra protection. I've had some failures, but I wanna keep trying, and to have at least ONE good batch lol.
I'm buying my spawn bags and casing mix from Midwest Grow Kits, I'm also using liquid culture. The spawn bags and casing mix come pre sterilized/pasturized, with the correct ammount of water. My question is should I re sterilize/pasturize it, or is that over kill? I own an instant pot, thanks for the recommendation!
Guessing you already did what you were gunna do, but you're paying extra for them to pasteurize it so I wouldn't bother, if you're worries about it just buy your own grain and process it... its like cooking your own food, that's the only way you know it's done correct.. and you don't have to pay anyone 😂
Just lost two full tubs to Trich overnight. Very frustrating. One day it was fine, the next it was all green. I am sure you have already tried this Sage but because I am trying to be hyper aware of contamination I would pasteurize my Coir to hydrate and then add to a bag and sterilize in the PC then add to the sterilized tub with a casing layer. STILL getting contamination on some tubs but I have to think that it HAS to be coming from ME or the environment. I don't have too many areas in my house that I can use as a clean room so I have to improvise. Such is life. I just keep trying and watching your channel for the good tips.
Soooo probably a dumb question but as a newbie what is the process of finding out what substrate to use. You reference grass lovers, poo lovers etc. Is there a resource I can reference that will give me that info so I can tailor my grows accordingly?
Great video! A few question how do you store your cultures? because the other day i tried reviving some cubes from agar slants kept in the fridge around one year old and it was just dead(good thing i had some spores prints), but all my other gourmet mushrooms(oyster,enoki,lionsmane,chestnut,etc) are perfectly fine, can cubes not handle the cold? Also what is your thought on the senescence of cube mycelium, can i keep growing from the same agar culture or do i have to go back to spores? i have had non conclusive results in my experiments, gourmet varieties seem to do fine with with endless growing of the same mycelium.
Senescence is real, and depends mainly on how you store the cultures and how often you expand them. The better they’re stored, the less senescence. A culture can last for a long time if they are treated properly.
6:10 its a "wet spot" bacterial contamination (bacillus spp.) its the most popular one I think because molds are dying pretty easy but bacillus endospores are not
Because endospores are not the problem in this case, but just nasty leftover stuff from bacteria (from insect poop). Endospores are the least of my worries when it comes to sterilization, they are easy to deal with. Just use enough heat for long enough.
The jars you show look fine to me! Now I am thinking that some of the spawn I have added to tubs might actually be contaminated. I have a lot of jars that look very similar.
Hi. I'm just starting out so I've been watching tutorial vids almost non stop.. One thing I've noticed is everyone talks about contamination and how it's bad etc. But I havent seen anyone explain what happens if you haven't spotted a contaminated batch and put it to bulk. What happens next? Do they still fruit and if so, will the mushrooms be ok to eat or will they make you sick? Or will there be obvious signs if they have managed to grow? It would be great to see a short vid explaining the cons of not spotting contamination and why it's so bad. Sorry if this seems obvious but as i said, I'm new to this and keen to learn all i can.
They may fruit a little. Don’t eat mushrooms with mold on them, but if it’s away from the mold it’s alright with more common molds in cultivation like trich (ofc assuming you have no allergy or compromised immune system).
@@Mycophilia Thank you for your replies and the information. I had been thinking along the lines of there being no fruits etc. which would have been more of an inconvenient part of my learning curve. But the extra information you have supplied regarding potential hazards of contaminated fruits is much appreciated. I probably wouldn't have eaten anything that didn't look or smell right as I'm quite fussy but it's good to know that some risk can go beyond having fruiting bodies.. I'm taking great care at every stage and your tutorials have been a great help. I decided at the beginning to wrestle with agar plates and although it's taken me a few attempts in refining my process I'm glad I did because I never realised just how interesting and amazing it is to observe the cycle of growth. I think I'm hooked.. Thanks again.. 👍
That 5:55 shows EXACTLY what BLOB, CLOUD LIKE, NOT GOOD MYCELIUM looks like. I hate when one bag goes ROPEY and another is BLOB/LEATHERY. It's bacteria for sure.
I have found good success using Walmart brand microwave 90 sec brown rice packets. Only $1 dollar each. Way cheaper than all the other brands kind of makes it almost worth it factoring in having to watch a pressure cooker all afternoon and 100% success rate
I talked about this on my latest livestream, but yes I do stack them but only when colonizing. When fruiting I unlatch the lids so they can grow and push it up. You CAN keep it patched, but the fruits will hit the ceiling and grow sideways.
@Mycophilia I wonder if stacking them in alternating pattern, like a cross shape would be beneficial, still allows air flow and closes some of it off... probably wouldn't matter for contamination but it would limit access points I would think. Could just put a lid with holes on the top tub. I'm very new just spitballin
Hey Sage man ,not sure if anyone is doing this but out of all the grains I've used the best success without contam has been quick oats and it colonises really fast ,test mushroom liquid culture was Pink Oyster anyway just thought I'd let yas all know. 👍
Yes faster when it’s already made properly, but contamination rate is much higher in getting to the clean culture. It is an added step to agar, so by that virtue alone it brings more risk and time, plus the liquid makes it hard to spot various types of contamination compared to the 2d outline of an agar plate. The faster colonization really hinges on whether you will be growing lots of any single culture, aka you are growing commercially. Most hobbyists are not constantly growing the same culture, which really would be the only time the speed of LC really means anything. Additionally, you have to wait for the LC to colonize, and then test it on agar. So unless you’re growing commercially, and the initial time investment is worth it to you (because you intend to grow lots of it), it takes a lot longer, and brings greater risk than simply growing out agar and inoculating with it. As you see in this video, full colonization in 8 days. That is completely fine by me lol
“The inexperienced eye might not be able to tell but, you can just tell it’s not healthy” is so unbelievably unhelpful. You might be correct but tell us WHY. How are you making that judgement? Point to specific things. Anything less is seemingly just your opinion.
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Timestamps:
Pt.1: Addressing some comments on sterilization (0:00)
Pt.2: Endospores and causes of their abundance (1:16)
Pt.3: Grades of grain and cleanliness (3:20)
Pt.4: Test Results: Clean vs dirty grain colonization (5:21)
Pt. 5: Anaerobic jars and stalling growth (9:55)
Pt.6: What are PF/BRF cakes? (10:37)
Pt.7: Thoughts on liquid culture (LC) (12:34)
Pt.8: Fruiting plans (13:35)
1) Patreon Replacement (memberships for videos and monthly genetics): tinyurl.com/mycosage
2) Mentorship and Genetics, I don't bite!: mycophilia.official@gmail.com
3) Discount codes in description
I hope you all have a great day or night!
🍄💜
Sage
I only use food grade rye as well. It has made a profound difference in lowering contamination rates. It's ironic that you're making these videos, because I almost simultaneously switch to brown rice as. I'm finding there's not a lot of information on prep. If you'd like to share your process, I'm all ears!
@@Loader138 video coming up one of these days, but very simple. For regular brown rice: boil water fully, then add grains and simmer on low-medium heat for 9 mins. Then rinse thoroughly with cold water, and then strain vigorously to get rid of as much excess moisture as possible. Once no water is falling off the colander after a vigorous shake, then I will load into jars and sterilize in my instant pot for 2 hours.
Thanks
It's nice to find people who know what they're doing on RUclips. I've learned a lot from your bacterial grain video & this one. Might try brown rice because all my bags & jars of oats & wbs are all spikey with some sneaky 1 or 2 grains that won't colonize fully. I hate it, it's so frustrating.
Great stuff as always Sage. Would love a video on how you prepare your brown rice jars. I've tried it once and they all got contam, I think probably from being too wet. Seems so difficult and sticky compared to popcorn
Check out my response to the pinned comment. Video coming one of these days
You need to rinse them more before straining. They'll be much less sticky.
Really appreciate the time stamps man
Glad to hear that, will start doing it from here on out :)
From my research and experience endospores can survive heat only when they are in the dormant stage and heat is a great catalyst for waking them apparently soaking in heated water for a few hours allowing them to cool for a few more then drying and pc or pc twice first time for one hour then again for two hr. or something like that. This gives the endospores time to wake up so they are vulnerable. Or you could just source grains that don’t have as many endospores. I hope that helps.
Yes, sounds like you’re trying to describe a process called tyndallization, and it was used more commonly in the past before PCs were fully adopted. Again, my grains were fine. Until a moth infestation; they were not bought as dirty grains.
Endospores are not the only issue at that point.
Thanks for the info on quart jars full of grain and there being lower oxygen. I just started using quart jars for spawn and wondered why it was going so slow. 🍄❤️
Human grade grains are pretty cheap and you can buy them from any grocery store. No extra trips to feed stores.
Nice to see you again!
I use feed grade oats for my spawn. I soak them for 24+ hours then drain and bag them. Do you think that soaking the oats in lime water would kill off the endosperm?
If you are having no problems currently then I would not bother, but a little bit can certainly help during the soak or boil. You can also wash, then rinse well with a little soap before soaking.
You mean endospores, endosperm is the nutritious part of the grain.
Just now getting into this field and your videos have been super helpful.
I've either received bunk spores or a dry spawn bag so I figured I'd do a little more digging and ran into this channel.
Keep the videos coming.
Thank you, glad you’re enjoying my vids!
What happened did nothing grow?
Interesting about the organic grains. I've always spent the extra for human grade organic grains. Sounds like a mistake although I haven't had many issues. Going to give brown rice a go again. Thanks brother, always great content!
alot of us are having great results w off brand rice, especially low sodium content ones
Smart smart man, great morning education or afternoon or evening or night really anytime. Never got bad info from you sage. Your knowledge is so valuable 🍄
I've been having this issue repeatedly! I will try switching to brown rice
I was so worried about the condensation for my rice and this alleviated all of that, much thanks 👍🏽
Glad I could help!
I'm excited for this one
💜
oh this my superbowl
😃
hey sage, perfect topic for me rn. sterilised rye grain almost 2wewks ago. been holding out for some lc. wondering if I've left them too long., but sounds like not. thanks for the knowledge ❤
💜
Would you recommend a BRF cake for a beginner like me?. I've been watching some videos, and it's kinda "safer" for the extra protection. I've had some failures, but I wanna keep trying, and to have at least ONE good batch lol.
I recommend brown rice to bulk. You can also do BRF cakes to bulk by taking a cheese grater and breaking them up.
I'm buying my spawn bags and casing mix from Midwest Grow Kits, I'm also using liquid culture. The spawn bags and casing mix come pre sterilized/pasturized, with the correct ammount of water. My question is should I re sterilize/pasturize it, or is that over kill? I own an instant pot, thanks for the recommendation!
Guessing you already did what you were gunna do, but you're paying extra for them to pasteurize it so I wouldn't bother, if you're worries about it just buy your own grain and process it... its like cooking your own food, that's the only way you know it's done correct.. and you don't have to pay anyone 😂
Just lost two full tubs to Trich overnight. Very frustrating. One day it was fine, the next it was all green. I am sure you have already tried this Sage but because I am trying to be hyper aware of contamination I would pasteurize my Coir to hydrate and then add to a bag and sterilize in the PC then add to the sterilized tub with a casing layer. STILL getting contamination on some tubs but I have to think that it HAS to be coming from ME or the environment. I don't have too many areas in my house that I can use as a clean room so I have to improvise. Such is life. I just keep trying and watching your channel for the good tips.
You hit the nail in your other comment. Most likely the culture/spawn, or sterile technique when inoculating.
Soooo probably a dumb question but as a newbie what is the process of finding out what substrate to use. You reference grass lovers, poo lovers etc. Is there a resource I can reference that will give me that info so I can tailor my grows accordingly?
Yes, check the description
Great video! A few question how do you store your cultures? because the other day i tried reviving some cubes from agar slants kept in the fridge around one year old and it was just dead(good thing i had some spores prints), but all my other gourmet mushrooms(oyster,enoki,lionsmane,chestnut,etc) are perfectly fine, can cubes not handle the cold?
Also what is your thought on the senescence of cube mycelium, can i keep growing from the same agar culture or do i have to go back to spores? i have had non conclusive results in my experiments, gourmet varieties seem to do fine with with endless growing of the same mycelium.
That’s strange, they can last many years stored in slants but your fridge may have simply been too cold for them as they are a tropical species.
Compared to the gourmet species you listed
Senescence is real, and depends mainly on how you store the cultures and how often you expand them. The better they’re stored, the less senescence. A culture can last for a long time if they are treated properly.
@@Mycophilia Interesting, and how long do you keep a cube strain cloned from a good fruit you liked going? when do you go back to spore?
It can survive a freeze. Grown from LC that froze before
Yo bless all you guys this world is so beautiful but some things here are so wild stay safe fam protect and help anyone you can
6:10 its a "wet spot" bacterial contamination (bacillus spp.) its the most popular one I think because molds are dying pretty easy but bacillus endospores are not
If endospores are the problem, wouldn’t tyndalization be a solution? It would take much longer, but step sterization could work.
Because endospores are not the problem in this case, but just nasty leftover stuff from bacteria (from insect poop). Endospores are the least of my worries when it comes to sterilization, they are easy to deal with. Just use enough heat for long enough.
That one jar looked ready to send. I need more experience
What if you don't pressure cook,
Is there another way or is it ok to try just as they are?
Thank you
Vids are 🔥🔥🔥
The jars you show look fine to me! Now I am thinking that some of the spawn I have added to tubs might actually be contaminated. I have a lot of jars that look very similar.
So it's a good idea to get good quality, brown rice?
Yes
How do you prepare your brown rice? I’m looking for a good recipe
Check out my response to the pinned comment
Hi.
I'm just starting out so I've been watching tutorial vids almost non stop..
One thing I've noticed is everyone talks about contamination and how it's bad etc. But I havent seen anyone explain what happens if you haven't spotted a contaminated batch and put it to bulk.
What happens next? Do they still fruit and if so, will the mushrooms be ok to eat or will they make you sick? Or will there be obvious signs if they have managed to grow?
It would be great to see a short vid explaining the cons of not spotting contamination and why it's so bad.
Sorry if this seems obvious but as i said, I'm new to this and keen to learn all i can.
1) they will eventually succumb to mold. If you already had mold, then it’ll grow more mold, not mushrooms
They may fruit a little. Don’t eat mushrooms with mold on them, but if it’s away from the mold it’s alright with more common molds in cultivation like trich (ofc assuming you have no allergy or compromised immune system).
But some molds are straight up toxic, so don’t eat anything from such a tub.
@@Mycophilia Thank you for your replies and the information.
I had been thinking along the lines of there being no fruits etc. which would have been more of an inconvenient part of my learning curve.
But the extra information you have supplied regarding potential hazards of contaminated fruits is much appreciated.
I probably wouldn't have eaten anything that didn't look or smell right as I'm quite fussy but it's good to know that some risk can go beyond having fruiting bodies..
I'm taking great care at every stage and your tutorials have been a great help.
I decided at the beginning to wrestle with agar plates and although it's taken me a few attempts in refining my process I'm glad I did because I never realised just how interesting and amazing it is to observe the cycle of growth. I think I'm hooked..
Thanks again.. 👍
How long are you boiling your rice? I tried ten minutes but it seemed too soft so tried 6 minutes last time.
9 mins with this ‘normal’ brown rice, but 7 mins with thin basmati
@@Mycophilia 💙Thanks, Sage!
That 5:55 shows EXACTLY what BLOB, CLOUD LIKE, NOT GOOD MYCELIUM looks like. I hate when one bag goes ROPEY and another is BLOB/LEATHERY. It's bacteria for sure.
I have found good success using Walmart brand microwave 90 sec brown rice packets. Only $1 dollar each. Way cheaper than all the other brands kind of makes it almost worth it factoring in having to watch a pressure cooker all afternoon and 100% success rate
What's the benefit of going back to spores?
Fresh mycelium, fresh genetics
How long have u been cultivating?
Started seriously in 2017, but been in the mycosphere since 2012 :)
Thanks for the answer u seem super informed about the whole thing I'm just getting started and enjoy ur content the best so far
@@bobbygilljr4153 thank you, I hope you learn lots!
Hey micophilia, I am wondering if you stack your shoeboxes? I’m wondering if there will not be enough fae on the bottom one?
I talked about this on my latest livestream, but yes I do stack them but only when colonizing. When fruiting I unlatch the lids so they can grow and push it up. You CAN keep it patched, but the fruits will hit the ceiling and grow sideways.
@Mycophilia I wonder if stacking them in alternating pattern, like a cross shape would be beneficial, still allows air flow and closes some of it off... probably wouldn't matter for contamination but it would limit access points I would think. Could just put a lid with holes on the top tub. I'm very new just spitballin
Hey Sage man ,not sure if anyone is doing this but out of all the grains I've used the best success without contam has been quick oats and it colonises really fast ,test mushroom liquid culture was Pink Oyster anyway just thought I'd let yas all know. 👍
Depends on batch, brand, and a host of other factors
Liquid culture is way faster than agar and just the same amount of contamination chance ,when you think about the process. 👍
Yes faster when it’s already made properly, but contamination rate is much higher in getting to the clean culture. It is an added step to agar, so by that virtue alone it brings more risk and time, plus the liquid makes it hard to spot various types of contamination compared to the 2d outline of an agar plate.
The faster colonization really hinges on whether you will be growing lots of any single culture, aka you are growing commercially. Most hobbyists are not constantly growing the same culture, which really would be the only time the speed of LC really means anything.
Additionally, you have to wait for the LC to colonize, and then test it on agar. So unless you’re growing commercially, and the initial time investment is worth it to you (because you intend to grow lots of it), it takes a lot longer, and brings greater risk than simply growing out agar and inoculating with it. As you see in this video, full colonization in 8 days. That is completely fine by me lol
i agree and do very small bottles then use a centrifuge and dont use a stirring pad because it hides contams
Also the word for buffet is “baikingu” from Viking. Because there is no way in hell they were going to try saying smorgasbord
Qhen youre saying you sterilized for 2 3 4 hours, are you still using the instant pot?
Yes
Thanks. Me too. 😅
LC is no faster then AGAR... It's both a method of LIVE MYCELIUM so yea don't get lost in that confusion.
ozone then vac seal
Pan and Pow. love the facts.
06:40
I'd take a bag and rubber band it to the jar with the lid off giving you a larger area with air
Amazing video super content heavy
Thank you 😊
Whats your brown rice tek?
Check my response to the pinned message.
Sage: this happens because “random fact”I digest so.😂never fails great vids
Thanks 😂
5:40 the middle will look like paste ??
Ha, wonder if that is why the Japanese call their breadcrumbs "Panko"?
😊
Hell yeah!!!
Pan is how you say bread in Spanish too
THX 🍻😎SAPERE AUDE
Just subbed to Patreon
Welcome aboard! Thank you for your support :)
🍄🍄🍄
“The inexperienced eye might not be able to tell but, you can just tell it’s not healthy” is so unbelievably unhelpful.
You might be correct but tell us WHY. How are you making that judgement? Point to specific things.
Anything less is seemingly just your opinion.
Look at my “Do you have Clean Spawn” video for more info.
girl... it looked like the blob
😂