A couple of years ago, I was at the Churchill War Rooms in London. In one of the displays was a Colt 1911 chambered in .455 Webley Auto, which the display said that Churchill had purchased during or shortly before the start of the First World War and carried as his personal sidearm for the rest of his life.
That sounds a lot like Churchill. He was somewhat forward thinking with his choice of personal weapon, and was a very early adopter of automatic pistols, carrying a C96 during his time in the Sudan, including at during the famous charge at Omdurman with the 21st Lancers, who were at this time still armed with lances.
Yeah, I definitely remember reading that his C96 saved his life when he used one rather than a sword whilst injured on horseback, and that he did carry a 1911 whilst serving as the prime minister.
@@discerningscoundrel3055 I believe he lost that same C96 during his time as a Boer prisoner. There's an interesting tale there about how he had some expanding "man-stopper" 7.63 bullets for it, which had just been made illegal for use in war by the Hague Convention, and had to cleverly dispose of them from his person so as not to give the Boers an excuse to shoot him as a war criminal. It was an interesting time for sure.
@@Autobotmatt428 An expanding bullet is designed to widen in diameter (Flatten basically) upon impact, making the wound bigger therefore it does way more damage when it hits you
Hi Ian, I bought one of these in a Ft. Lauderdale pawn shop for $65.00 back in 1967. I didn't think it took a different bullet, so I used the US 45 cal ball ammo. It shot very well and I had no problems with the gun. Traded it for a WW2 M 1.
Several years ago I was at a gun show, one of the exhibitors had a .455 colt 1911 that had worn blueing (showing it had a history). Two men were looking at it and one said “well you could get it re blued”.... the murderous look in the exhibitors eyes still cracks me up
"One of the only times Colt made them in a unique caliber." I've seen a couple of Colt 1911's chambered for 9mm Steyr; I believe they were for the Italian civilian market.
Saw one of these at the British Pattern Collection in Leeds. Also saw a German Luger P08 in .455 and other oddities and one of a kind there. Truly an unforgettable experience
@@Sableagle Old India Hand: ".455 has its place, and .476 is even more useful, but, when the tiger's in the howdah with you, you really want .577" ruclips.net/video/2XBX2dMTebs/видео.html
No point spending the money on a pointless weapon when it could be spent on more machine guns. A pistol was an even less effective a weapon than a bayonet in the grand scheme of things.
well during that time period, revolver are way reliable than any semi-auto/self loading handgun because of the quality of the cartridge. similar to how many army still prefer bolt action rifle than a semi auto rifle.
I got one of these! My grandpa was showing my his "45 caliber" last Thanksgiving. I read the ".455 CALIBRE" and thought "Huh, weird." I searched the serial because I didn't notice the A1 features and figured it was old. I couldn't find mention of the "W" prefix to ther serial. Once I paud attention to the "R.A.F." stamp, I posted to reddit to figure it out and learned this history. I told my grandpa about the history and he , a Vietnam veteran, was fascinated as well. He gave it to me a month later. Oh, one issue... NO MAGAZINE!!!
Sorry, Ian, the "cp" mark is the commercial mark of the Honourable London Company of Gunmakers, the other Commercial Proof House ( other than Birmingham) The Northern Territor Police ( Australia) used .455 Colts ( viewed onein 2000 or so, too expensive) And NT also used Mod 712 Schnellfeuers in the 1920s ( HM Customs anti-Piracy use). I also had a request from Prague, for .455 cases some 20 yrs ago; from an owner of an RAF marked Colt, ??Czech RAF pilot? Returned to Prague after WWII, imprisoned by Red regime, pistol hidden or went to friend and into post- 1989 liberation collectors market? Interesting history...never did get to supply cases !!! Doc AV
I think it MAY be possible to own one of these without a firearm certificate. It is an obsolete cartridge and so may not be subject to licensing in the same way as a Smith and Wesson revolver chambered in Russian (can’t remember the calibre!) but if the cartridge is still available commercially then it’s a no no and has to meet the modern pistol modifications that you wouldn’t do to an historic gun like that!
@@maddmatt55 looool, my good man, the government have long made it impossible to own these as relics and they'll make your life living hell if you try it. If anyone you know has one, they should take it to a dealer and get it off british soils. DO NOT GIVE IT TO THE POLICE; they will destroy it. Give it to a dealer and actually save history. The chances of them destroying it rather than just sending it to the MoD is very little. Obselete calibre be damned if it looks like a 1911 to them. Also to any law enforcement officers reading this: I'm sorry but you know it's true.
I had one of these in the 1970s. the conversion to shooter was just aBarrel and 45 ACP mags. shot it for a while then put .455 barrel and clip back and sold it for GOOD money.
I now remember reading something on the internet a long time ago someone in Israel who was caught with a 1911 chambered in the 455 Webley cartridge and had lots of trouble finding that ammo so he supposedly had just figured out that he only had to convert the extractor and then he would actually be able to use 45auto with out many issues..
@@Khrrck Three thou actually. The .45 acp uses a .451 diameter bullet, and the .455 uses a .454. I think most bullets would obdurate that small ammount just fine.
Trait: Gun Jesus is able, one per encounter, retrieve a weapon from out of nowhere. This weapon must be related to the topic at hand and does not count it's rarity against an roll to acquire. At Levels 5, 10, 15, 20. Increase the number of times a weapon can be retrieved per encounter by one OR increase the rarity of the weapon by 10. example: A Level 20 Gun Jesus could retrieve 4 'somewhat rare' weapons or one 'tool room prototype' per encounter. Note: This trait(modifed) is also shared with GunTuber Historian class.
USA: "Hey Britain, have you tried using our 1911 pistol? It has a .45 Caliber bullet that packs a punch." Britain: "Can you add another '5' to it?" USA: *Confused stare* "Eh???"
@@alecblunden8615 We had far more Webley revolvers with shaved cylinders to take 45 ACP than Webley autoloaders, we both made our own 45 ACP and bought it from the USA.
Just for the fun of it, I was looking into availability of ammo in .455 Webley Self-loading. You can get one round for $30. Interestingly, .455 revolver is readily available. I hadn't heard of either before.
Thank you for the only available knowledge on weapons that only you can show us!! I've learned to speak my own language in weaponry thanks to you Ian!!! Keep the videos coming!! Love these rare and unique pieces of deadly Art!!
I think we need at least our antipodean friends to join in to be close to being pan-Anglosphere. One of my favourite things in the combination of the Allied efforts is the Sexton SPG: Canadian copy of an American vehicle but with a British gun, using the hull of the Canadian version of an American tank. With the Australians modifying the Sexton designs to fit their M3 hulls post-war to make the Yeramba. If only the Aussies had later replaced the 25-pdr with a 105 mm gun to compete the circle when they adopted it.
I got to see one of these beautiful 1911's back in the early 80's. It was at one of the gub shops I went to. It was a bring back from a WW2 vet. It was new in the box, the vet never fired it. It was in consignment. Absolutely beautiful 1911
Everyone had it, simply designated the artillery meant to serve alongside cavalry units, with everyone either mounted on a horse, or with a position on the gun or the limber. So they had similar small-arms needs to the cavalry, but were likely to use them less, meaning a pistol might do rather than a carbine.
Very nice. I have heard about these over the years. I did not realize that Colt had made quite so many. I always thought it was only a couple of thousand- almost like proof of concept. I wonder how many wound up at the bottom of the Atlantic in sunken Liberty ships. Odd that the Brits bought them in both chamberings- that must have created confusion. It would have made more sense to have all 1911's in 45 ACP, so you could know at a glance what ammo you needed. But this IS the Brits we are talking about. Great video as always. Thank you
7:35 The "E" stands for "Enfield" and an "A" stands for "America" - Makes so much sense. There is nothing beginning with "E" along the lines of "America" that it could signify...
My friends grandfather was issued 1, he was a motorcycle dispatch rider with 36th Ulster division, and they still have the pistol, which is nice, I've seen it and its in good shape, everyone thinks handguns and semi auto rifles r banded in the UK, but in northern ireland they r not and can also be used in self-defence
Semi autos are generally only allowed in .22 with a few specific exceptions (so not too different from the mainland) and the self defence use is only if your licence allows it and you have to provide a very, very good reason (if you can you get concealed carry rights too) and if you only have a normal license expect trouble if you carry & use it as a PP weapon. The main advantage between NI and the Mainland is recreational shooters can still use proper handguns, not those awful long barrel monstrosities or the black powder get rounds.
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?” -Patrick Henry, 1736-1799 RIP
Holy shit, that makes so much sense now. I watches a bridge too far yesterday and I noticed that, I was thinking "Why is he using a colt .45? He's not a yank." This makes so much more sense though now
@@davidgillon2762 As Connery was playing a General (commander of First Airborne), it wouldn’t surprise me if it was either .455 or .45. My guess it it would be it is .45 in the film just for supply reasons. But in reality, a general carting an old .455 Webley 1911 would not be shocking.
This isn't just a gun channel, it's a *history* channel, headed by a charismatic and knowledgeable expect who gives intriguing and fascinating presentations. Best wishes from Australia. - Come on over sometime.
"Just have to be a little different... ". Very true. As a Brit I can confirm that for some strange reason that I've never fully understood, we sometimes have to be different and make things difficult for ourselves. Like using both the imperial and metric systems of measurement. Just one example of our quirkiness... 🤣
Eley was a manufacturer of ammo and Webley was a manufacturer of guns- I believe this is why we see the .455 eley calibre designation on colt pistols- colt was unwilling to put a rival gun manufacturer's name on their guns, hence they were marked with the calibre .455 eley rather than .455 webley. It's the same deal with the new service revolvers that colt made for Britain- they are designated. 455 eley when in fact the ammo is identical to the .455 webley round. Interestingly as well, the colt new sevices in this calibre had a slight step in the cylinder that would allow a .45acp to headspace perfectly on the rim to be used in an emergency. Not being cut for moonclips though it would require the empties to be removed with a pencil etc if necessary.
Did Colt actually make these with a .454 bore, or did they use the .451 ACP bore and simply allow fore the leade to force the bullet down the extra 2-3 thousands?
The British found that .455 Self Loading, despite being ballistically the same as the revolver round, did blow up some Webley revolvers (exactly which mark of Webley revolvers is not clear), which they would otherwise chamber in. I strongly suspect that is why the ammunition was so clearly marked “Not for revolvers.”
UK viewer and about 30+ years ago I handled one of these guns once, though I think it was unusable as at some point someone could possibly have fired .45 ACP in it. The slide was slightly bowed up. Well I assume that was the issue, anyway it was just a wall hanger.
I've done it many years ago ,45 acp usually fires in the .455 chamber,the extractor held the case firmly enough for the firing pin to do its job and only slight bulging of the brass.I suspect not all guns would be the same.
Part of the reason it looks so weird here is because we're seeing it from "underneath", the magazine goes into the left-hand side of the receiver. Granted, it's a bit of a goofy looking gun to begin with
I recall at least one 1911 in .455 was imported in the treasure trove of firearms imported 1981-1983 by Odin International, Ltd. of Alexandria, VA. This treasure trove was comprised of firearms seized by the Mexican government after Mexico virtually banned private ownership of firearms in1968 (and from today’s narcoterrorism in Mexico we know how well that worked). It’s odd chambering stamped on the slide is why I recall that one gun among thousands. It bore no markings clearly indicating it was a military firearm, hence was importable. I’d be interested to know if this was stamped with OIL’s import marking, which went on the left side of the long axis of the magazine well opening.
I'm always amazed that some pistols made to the 1911 design don't align the grip cuts on the slide with the handle grips. Some examples, like the Coonan Arms 1911, angle the cuts, the same as the handle grips, but it doesn't look quite right.
please, Britain is a little different? even the American gallon is different to the imperial gallon. their fuel drums are not 44 gal. they dont even spell their words the same.
would the auto even properly chamer or fire in a revolver it it was loaded given the smaller and thinnner rim it might fall down to far? or would it fit and just not auto eject?
Off topic i know, but does anyone know how many rounds of rifle/machine gun/pistol ammo were expended by the combatants during the war in europe during the first world war. Its easy to find how many artillery shells were fired (British - 170 million, Germans 222 million), but i cannot find out about small arms.
An interesting topic. After a bit of rooting around the internet I found "in the First World War .....7,000 million Mk 7 ball cartridges were produced by British factories alone" which gives some idea of scale
My Great Grandad was issued with one of these in the RAF. Always said that extra .005" makes all the difference. He did well with the ladies during the war so I guess he was right!
@@ForgottenWeapons Thank you for a fast reply! :) It was just a bit dissonant to me to be looking at one pistol while you were describing another. Still great info about BOTH guns!
Now there's an idea! 😁 I wouldn't be half surprised if someone looked into modifying the original AR-10's to 303 in the 50's when they came out. But they had recently created the 280 British and that would have been the way to go. Then we forced the 308/7.62 on everybody. Good cartridge it is, but it is definitely not an intermediate cartridge, as was being sought at the time.
When I visited the Churchill war room museum in London a few years ago I saw his personal Colt 1911 that he carried in the trenches in WWI. I cannot remember if it was a .45 ACP or a .455. DO you know which it was?
1911 or Webley self-loader - I wonder if the personnel they were issued to had a strong preference for one model over the other. (Hope to see a review some day on the sliding-breech Darne shotguns or the .577 Tranter revolver.)
I notice, and appreciate (as a Brit) that Ian clearly gets the difference between "English" and "British", whereas Colt, who marked the gun with and "E" rather than a "B" obviously didn't.
The proof marks are interesting. From the beginning of British proof law the marks were a form of crossed scepters with a V or a P for view and proof. Government proof houses had a crown over the scepters and I can't quite remember what the civilian proof mark was other than it was a variation of crossed scepters. As you might guess, my era of expertise is the muzzleloading era. So imagine my surprise when you showed the crossed banners and the mark with the banner part worn away or not properly struck, the staff of the banner was exactly the same as the handles of the crossed scepters. So from the early Georgian era to the (Edwardian?) era the proof marks for firearms and other martial weapons vary only a little. Proof marks alone make for an interesting study if that's what floats your boat.
Is it true that these guns could take .45 ACP in desperate circumstances, but not the other way around? I have also heard that the initial experimental version of the .455 cartridge was significantly faster out the muzzle; however, I also note that the difference is exactly 100 metres per second, so this might be a typographical error that crept into the secondary source.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the .455 1911 is one of the very few centerfire handguns you can legally own in the UK without modifications due to the age and the obsolescence of the calibre.
Was the recoil spring actually the same? It might be hard to tell by looking. It's a locked breech action, so it might not have mattered, but I wonder.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Casually flexing a Webley auto, like they grew on trees. Never change, Ian.
With original ammo no less
Doesn't top that time when he flexed not one but two FG-42's!
Yes, but it's God awful ugly. Like a P38 drawn by a preschooler. With crayon.
with a Johnson lmg in the background yet
Its called forgotten weapons, he does this all the time. Even shows old flintlock kentucky rifles! 👍😉
Kudos to the attention Colt paid to the details such as the British spelling "CALIBRE" instead of "CALIBER".
Good eye
I think the Brits would have sent them all back if it was the American spelling.
Funny. Thought they would send them back for misspelling
You mean Colt spelt the word correctly instead of the American version.
@@jenkinsonian and what makes British spelling the correct way instead of say old English?
A couple of years ago, I was at the Churchill War Rooms in London. In one of the displays was a Colt 1911 chambered in .455 Webley Auto, which the display said that Churchill had purchased during or shortly before the start of the First World War and carried as his personal sidearm for the rest of his life.
That sounds a lot like Churchill. He was somewhat forward thinking with his choice of personal weapon, and was a very early adopter of automatic pistols, carrying a C96 during his time in the Sudan, including at during the famous charge at Omdurman with the 21st Lancers, who were at this time still armed with lances.
Yeah, I definitely remember reading that his C96 saved his life when he used one rather than a sword whilst injured on horseback, and that he did carry a 1911 whilst serving as the prime minister.
@@discerningscoundrel3055 I believe he lost that same C96 during his time as a Boer prisoner. There's an interesting tale there about how he had some expanding "man-stopper" 7.63 bullets for it, which had just been made illegal for use in war by the Hague Convention, and had to cleverly dispose of them from his person so as not to give the Boers an excuse to shoot him as a war criminal. It was an interesting time for sure.
@@MalikCarr wait way was that cartridge band
@@Autobotmatt428 An expanding bullet is designed to widen in diameter (Flatten basically) upon impact, making the wound bigger
therefore it does way more damage when it hits you
When gun jesus says "Like this one" and casually pull out a rare gun..
I'm not sure they are that rare?
@@jamietus1012 Blasphemy... You dare to challenge gun Jesus ?
@@ericgrace9995 my mistake, I did not mean it
He did the same thing with a kolibri in a video about subcompact pistols
He has access to an interdimensional portal and can just pull guns out of nowhere
So this is the WAP I keep hearing about? Webley Automatic Pistol?
You win an internet
i mean, its pretty sexy tho
You are a legend
Cardi and Megan are coming over to discuss.
Not necessarily ,there are others very different .
Hi Ian, I bought one of these in a Ft. Lauderdale pawn shop for $65.00 back in 1967. I didn't think it took a different bullet, so I used the US 45 cal ball ammo. It shot very well and I had no problems with the gun. Traded it for a WW2 M 1.
Several years ago I was at a gun show, one of the exhibitors had a .455 colt 1911 that had worn blueing (showing it had a history). Two men were looking at it and one said “well you could get it re blued”.... the murderous look in the exhibitors eyes still cracks me up
British M1911, Self-Loathing
Oh dear lord
British M1911, Self-Loving
@@sirtaylor2569 no true Brit could understand such an idea.
Gun for people with low self esteem
Damn it
"One of the only times Colt made them in a unique caliber."
I've seen a couple of Colt 1911's chambered for 9mm Steyr; I believe they were for the Italian civilian market.
Saw one of these at the British Pattern Collection in Leeds. Also saw a German Luger P08 in .455 and other oddities and one of a kind there. Truly an unforgettable experience
'they won't make a .46'
how about a .455?
Rounded up it works
How about 50GI?
@@Sableagle Old India Hand: ".455 has its place, and .476 is even more useful, but, when the tiger's in the howdah with you, you really want .577" ruclips.net/video/2XBX2dMTebs/видео.html
@@davidgillon2762 Break out the Nitro Express
@@andrewmoore7022 I’d love a Thompson in 50gi.
Seeing that webley pistol gives you a new appreciation of just how good the 1911 looks.
there's something entirely british about stubbornly refusing to adopt a self loading pistol this hard
No point spending the money on a pointless weapon when it could be spent on more machine guns. A pistol was an even less effective a weapon than a bayonet in the grand scheme of things.
well during that time period, revolver are way reliable than any semi-auto/self loading handgun because of the quality of the cartridge.
similar to how many army still prefer bolt action rifle than a semi auto rifle.
@@jenkinsonian This is a ludicrous claim. Semi automatic pistols were some of the most effective weapons in trench warfare
@@jenkinsonian The point is an officer then has a shiny status symbol to wave about.
@@rogerlibby14613 an officer that can be easily spotted and is a trophy target.
I got one of these! My grandpa was showing my his "45 caliber" last Thanksgiving. I read the ".455 CALIBRE" and thought "Huh, weird."
I searched the serial because I didn't notice the A1 features and figured it was old. I couldn't find mention of the "W" prefix to ther serial. Once I paud attention to the "R.A.F." stamp, I posted to reddit to figure it out and learned this history.
I told my grandpa about the history and he , a Vietnam veteran, was fascinated as well. He gave it to me a month later.
Oh, one issue... NO MAGAZINE!!!
Surely a standard mag would fit the round and gun
Sorry, Ian, the "cp" mark is the commercial mark of the Honourable London Company of Gunmakers, the other Commercial Proof House ( other than Birmingham)
The Northern Territor Police ( Australia) used .455 Colts ( viewed onein 2000 or so, too expensive)
And NT also used Mod 712 Schnellfeuers in the 1920s ( HM Customs anti-Piracy use).
I also had a request from Prague, for .455 cases some 20 yrs ago; from an owner of an RAF marked Colt, ??Czech RAF pilot? Returned to Prague after WWII, imprisoned by Red regime, pistol hidden or went to friend and into post- 1989 liberation collectors market? Interesting history...never did get to supply cases !!!
Doc AV
There is one in UK out there for section 7 shooters, thought that one was super expensive.
They're especially rare in UK.
I think it MAY be possible to own one of these without a firearm certificate. It is an obsolete cartridge and so may not be subject to licensing in the same way as a Smith and Wesson revolver chambered in Russian (can’t remember the calibre!) but if the cartridge is still available commercially then it’s a no no and has to meet the modern pistol modifications that you wouldn’t do to an historic gun like that!
@@maddmatt55 looool, my good man, the government have long made it impossible to own these as relics and they'll make your life living hell if you try it. If anyone you know has one, they should take it to a dealer and get it off british soils. DO NOT GIVE IT TO THE POLICE; they will destroy it. Give it to a dealer and actually save history. The chances of them destroying it rather than just sending it to the MoD is very little. Obselete calibre be damned if it looks like a 1911 to them.
Also to any law enforcement officers reading this: I'm sorry but you know it's true.
I had one of these in the 1970s. the conversion to shooter was just aBarrel and 45 ACP mags. shot it for a while then put .455 barrel and clip back and sold it for GOOD money.
"I want a 1911, but I want one in a caliber that's impossible to find ammo for."
*Looks at pandemic ammo shortage*
"Ah, so .45 ACP it is."
I can find .45 relatively easily in my area. Affording it? Now thats the issue
"I carry a .455 because they don't make a .456"
@Graham I carry a .460 because they don't make a .470.
How's that?
@Graham Darn, you beat me to the .460 Rowland draw. One of my favorite 1911 chamberings.
They do make a .476 though
@@ElijahDeckerI've got a .470 nitro express ,and a .577 nitro express . Both are NOT for pistols .
I now remember reading something on the internet a long time ago someone in Israel who was caught with a 1911 chambered in the 455 Webley cartridge and had lots of trouble finding that ammo so he supposedly had just figured out that he only had to convert the extractor and then he would actually be able to use 45auto with out many issues..
That's what I was wondering... I presume the case just blows out the extra 5 thou and the bullet doesn't engage the rifling as well.
@@Khrrck Three thou actually. The .45 acp uses a .451 diameter bullet, and the .455 uses a .454. I think most bullets would obdurate that small ammount just fine.
"I carry a .45, because they don't make .46!"
"How about a compromise?"
You carry a 45 cause you don't feel like hurting yourself with a 500 mag.
Jokes on the fudds, they did make .46
@@nickwaller8063 More specifically, a 460 Rowland
Trait: Gun Jesus is able, one per encounter, retrieve a weapon from out of nowhere. This weapon must be related to the topic at hand and does not count it's rarity against an roll to acquire.
At Levels 5, 10, 15, 20. Increase the number of times a weapon can be retrieved per encounter by one OR increase the rarity of the weapon by 10. example: A Level 20 Gun Jesus could retrieve 4 'somewhat rare' weapons or one 'tool room prototype' per encounter.
Note: This trait(modifed) is also shared with GunTuber Historian class.
USA: "Hey Britain, have you tried using our 1911 pistol? It has a .45 Caliber bullet that packs a punch."
Britain: "Can you add another '5' to it?"
USA: *Confused stare* "Eh???"
Nah, it's the Canadians who go "Eh", I'm sure Americans would be much more colourful about it :P
You know, it's like you use 0.450, but we want one in 0.455
Only a military moron would confuse the supply chain even more by adding yet another cartridge.
@@alecblunden8615 We had far more Webley revolvers with shaved cylinders to take 45 ACP than Webley autoloaders, we both made our own 45 ACP and bought it from the USA.
@kevin lawrence But wouldn't exist for many years.
Just for the fun of it, I was looking into availability of ammo in .455 Webley Self-loading. You can get one round for $30. Interestingly, .455 revolver is readily available. I hadn't heard of either before.
Thank you for the only available knowledge on weapons that only you can show us!! I've learned to speak my own language in weaponry thanks to you Ian!!! Keep the videos coming!! Love these rare and unique pieces of deadly Art!!
FYI: RUclips unsubscribed me from this channel. I had to resubscribed this morning.
RUclips has moments of blood rushing to its head and does skullduggery every so often.
RUclips sus af
It's happening all over the place, YT is up to no good these days.
Same !!
RUclips didn’t do anything. Google did.
I usually never rush to clicking on a video, but when i saw 1911 on the title i busted through my mouse 1 button.
And I busted a Nut!!! LOL!!!
British: We would like 1911s in .455
Colt: We can do that. How many do you want?
"Yes" would be the reply to Colts "How many" c.f 200 per month ongoing order till end of war LOL.
Last time I came this early my wife was disappointed
It's been a while I suppose
really? my wife is just happy its over to get back to a reality program
Ha Ha!
Nice guys finish last. BUT CHADS FINISH FIRST
This is a Pan-Anglosphere fan’s dream right here.
Pan Anglosphere can happen again if Americans don't vote for the globalist, anti-gun Manchurian candidate.
@@akyloren10050 You might very well think that. I could not possibly comment.
I cried when i saw this
I think we need at least our antipodean friends to join in to be close to being pan-Anglosphere.
One of my favourite things in the combination of the Allied efforts is the Sexton SPG:
Canadian copy of an American vehicle but with a British gun, using the hull of the Canadian version of an American tank.
With the Australians modifying the Sexton designs to fit their M3 hulls post-war to make the Yeramba.
If only the Aussies had later replaced the 25-pdr with a 105 mm gun to compete the circle when they adopted it.
You know a design is good when it still looks the same over 100 years.
Indeed. Kudos to John Moses Browning (hallowed be thy name) for making a gun that can very much be called “The Gun,” both in looks and in function.
I never knew that this existed. Fascinating to think of these still being in RAF service in WWII.
I got to see one of these beautiful 1911's back in the early 80's. It was at one of the gub shops I went to. It was a bring back from a WW2 vet. It was new in the box, the vet never fired it. It was in consignment. Absolutely beautiful 1911
I thought the title said the “self loathing” cartridge, which would quintessentially British
As a 1911 fan, I thoroughly enjoyed this video, Ian.
Horse-artillery sounds like cow-catapult. Fetchez la vache!
Everyone had it, simply designated the artillery meant to serve alongside cavalry units, with everyone either mounted on a horse, or with a position on the gun or the limber. So they had similar small-arms needs to the cavalry, but were likely to use them less, meaning a pistol might do rather than a carbine.
Huh? "Get the cow!" Ohhhhh...
Of course I’m French! Why else do you think I have this outrageous accent?!
Very interesting! I have always been a 1911 fan , but had never heard of this version! Thanks Ian!
More unknown story and firearm for me! Love your work. Thank you and God bless all here.
Very nice. I have heard about these over the years. I did not realize that Colt had made quite so many. I always thought it was only a couple of thousand- almost like proof of concept. I wonder how many wound up at the bottom of the Atlantic in sunken Liberty ships. Odd that the Brits bought them in both chamberings- that must have created confusion. It would have made more sense to have all 1911's in 45 ACP, so you could know at a glance what ammo you needed. But this IS the Brits we are talking about. Great video as always. Thank you
The .45 acp was designed from the .455 Webley performance in the trials to decide what to replace the .38 Army revolvers with.
It’s actually just .45 Schofield modified for automatics.
And in the UK we switched from .455 to .38...
7:35 The "E" stands for "Enfield" and an "A" stands for "America" - Makes so much sense. There is nothing beginning with "E" along the lines of "America" that it could signify...
My friends grandfather was issued 1, he was a motorcycle dispatch rider with 36th Ulster division, and they still have the pistol, which is nice, I've seen it and its in good shape, everyone thinks handguns and semi auto rifles r banded in the UK, but in northern ireland they r not and can also be used in self-defence
Semi autos are generally only allowed in .22 with a few specific exceptions (so not too different from the mainland) and the self defence use is only if your licence allows it and you have to provide a very, very good reason (if you can you get concealed carry rights too) and if you only have a normal license expect trouble if you carry & use it as a PP weapon. The main advantage between NI and the Mainland is recreational shooters can still use proper handguns, not those awful long barrel monstrosities or the black powder get rounds.
@@contactacb Yeh if your considdered "crown services" civil service, BT etc you could/can get a PPW in NI as your where a potential target
“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?”
-Patrick Henry, 1736-1799 RIP
@@jc5445 There was an overwhelming demand for the changes to the mainland UK firearm laws from the public after the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres.
@@mauricewalshe8339 BT?
I actually remember this pistol from A Bridge Too Far when it was wielded by Sean Connery’s character.
Holy shit, that makes so much sense now.
I watches a bridge too far yesterday and I noticed that, I was thinking "Why is he using a colt .45? He's not a yank."
This makes so much more sense though now
That's more likely to have been an actual .45ACP M1911A1, which was issued to the Commandos, paras and various special operations units.
@@moritamikamikara3879 - Unlikely. This one, being from WW1, would have been very obsolete by then.
@@davidgillon2762 As Connery was playing a General (commander of First Airborne), it wouldn’t surprise me if it was either .455 or .45.
My guess it it would be it is .45 in the film just for supply reasons. But in reality, a general carting an old .455 Webley 1911 would not be shocking.
British used plenty of 1911s in .45 acp
One of my gun books mentions these .455 models, didn’t say anything about it but it mentioned that some were made in the caliber for the British
Missed a great opportunity to have a "War were Declared" moment.
*disappointed Othias sounds*
Wrong channel but ok
@@boymahina123 idk what channel this is refering to but it's just that, a reference, no such thing as "wrong channel"
@@Tokito935 If you don't know the channel, go check out C&Rsenal.
IN AD 1914 WAR WAS BEGINNING
This isn't just a gun channel, it's a *history* channel, headed by a charismatic and knowledgeable expect who gives intriguing and fascinating presentations.
Best wishes from Australia. - Come on over sometime.
all so if you notice on the forward lip on the baseplate you will see a small kings broad arrow thats a service mark
"Just have to be a little different... ". Very true. As a Brit I can confirm that for some strange reason that I've never fully understood, we sometimes have to be different and make things difficult for ourselves. Like using both the imperial and metric systems of measurement. Just one example of our quirkiness...
🤣
@das nah, metric is way easier to use. Same as decimal money, the old £,d,p system was daft.
Eley was a manufacturer of ammo and Webley was a manufacturer of guns- I believe this is why we see the .455 eley calibre designation on colt pistols- colt was unwilling to put a rival gun manufacturer's name on their guns, hence they were marked with the calibre .455 eley rather than .455 webley. It's the same deal with the new service revolvers that colt made for Britain- they are designated. 455 eley when in fact the ammo is identical to the .455 webley round. Interestingly as well, the colt new sevices in this calibre had a slight step in the cylinder that would allow a .45acp to headspace perfectly on the rim to be used in an emergency. Not being cut for moonclips though it would require the empties to be removed with a pencil etc if necessary.
Did Colt actually make these with a .454 bore, or did they use the .451 ACP bore and simply allow fore the leade to force the bullet down the extra 2-3 thousands?
Always wanted one since I heard stories of WW2 RAF aircrews with .455 1911s
"Tally Ho and Yee Haw!"
I'll admit I prefer the 1913 Webley... 😅🏴🇬🇧
Tally Haw? Yee Ho?
@@Spectral_Penguin Yally Ho!
Tally Ho, partner.
You just yee'd your very last haw, good sir.
Years ago I had opportunity to examine 2 Interarms Silver Cups and both had W prefix serial #s.
always wanted a video on this version of the 1911
Technically it’s a Colt Government Model as 1911 was a US Military designation for the pistol in .45 ACP.
The British found that .455 Self Loading, despite being ballistically the same as the revolver round, did blow up some Webley revolvers (exactly which mark of Webley revolvers is not clear), which they would otherwise chamber in. I strongly suspect that is why the ammunition was so clearly marked “Not for revolvers.”
Feels like yesterday shoving one of these into a weird machine and getting back 2 with some sickass engravings
UK viewer and about 30+ years ago I handled one of these guns once, though I think it was unusable as at some point someone could possibly have fired .45 ACP in it. The slide was slightly bowed up. Well I assume that was the issue, anyway it was just a wall hanger.
Inches: + 0.005
Stopping power: + 300%
@Infectious Legume I hate being that guy, but "Whooosh"
I wonder what would happen if you put .45ACP in a .455W and vice versa? I'm sure someone made that mistake in the past.
If you see old webley revolver can you 45acp also 455w
matthew guthrige That’s likely to cause an explosion.
@@trachemotac8309 .45acp is non rimmed, it would just slide through
I've done it many years ago ,45 acp usually fires in the .455 chamber,the extractor held the case firmly enough for the firing pin to do its job and only slight bulging of the brass.I suspect not all guns would be the same.
@@Bustin_cider00 they were routinely supplied with halfmoon clips and some cylinders were shaved .
Thank you Ian on the history take care
Thank you ,Ian .
The 1911 looks like a Ray-gun next to that Webley...
It looks like a glock had a three-way with a luger and a hi-point.
It's so ugly.
I wish we were still able to own cool stuff like this in the UK :(
Yeah, me too. I used to LOVE my old Webley MkVI
I wish he would have shown the chamber end of the barrel. I saw a little bit around his finger. It looked like Colt beveled the chamber hood.
What's the rifle far right in the background?
Johnson LMG. 30-06
Part of the reason it looks so weird here is because we're seeing it from "underneath", the magazine goes into the left-hand side of the receiver. Granted, it's a bit of a goofy looking gun to begin with
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1941_Johnson_machine_gun
@@jeramyw THANK YOUUUU! It was drving me nuts! I knew I had seen it but couldnt place it.
@@lindahl01 No problem. I asked the same thing last video.
I like how you've got an example of how the ammunition was distributed 101 years ago.
That's presumably come with the pistol.
I recall at least one 1911 in .455 was imported in the treasure trove of firearms imported 1981-1983 by Odin International, Ltd. of Alexandria, VA. This treasure trove was comprised of firearms seized by the Mexican government after Mexico virtually banned private ownership of firearms in1968 (and from today’s narcoterrorism in Mexico we know how well that worked). It’s odd chambering stamped on the slide is why I recall that one gun among thousands. It bore no markings clearly indicating it was a military firearm, hence was importable. I’d be interested to know if this was stamped with OIL’s import marking, which went on the left side of the long axis of the magazine well opening.
When I was in the RAF 1970-1992 our pilots still carried a Remington version of this pistol chambered for 9mm
Really? Not the Browning P35 (Hi Power)? Very interesting. Never heard of that.
@@troy9477 My bad. You are correct it was the Browning hi-Power they used :)
Being a colt fan. It’s always nice to see him showing something with the rampant pony
I'm always amazed that some pistols made to the 1911 design don't align the grip cuts on the slide with the handle grips. Some examples, like the Coonan Arms 1911, angle the cuts, the same as the handle grips, but it doesn't look quite right.
Interesting ive never heard of these before.
Great vid as always, thanks you Ian
I always thought the 1911 .455 Webley was made for the Royal Navy. Learn something every time i watch one of ian's vids. Thank you.
Fleet Air Arm was the flying wing of the RN.
It still is.
But only since 1937.
What is the gun closest to the Auction sign? The one with the long barrel, and a triangular sight.
That's a Johnson LMG, M1941. Side feeding magazine. That triangular front sight is the giveaway.
Was that a broad arrow "crow's foot" on the magazine base as well?
Looked like it to me. Legend has it British tanks still have a big one stamped on the bottom.
Yesp, standard War Office property marking (MOD latterly)
"just has to be a little different"
welp, yeah.. that'd be britain for ya
please, Britain is a little different? even the American gallon is different to the imperial gallon. their fuel drums are not 44 gal. they dont even spell their words the same.
@@badpossum440 mate, it's a joke
would the auto even properly chamer or fire in a revolver it it was loaded given the smaller and thinnner rim it might fall down to far? or would it fit and just not auto eject?
Fascinating! I actually had no idea these existed!
What was the magazine lanyard meant for? Was it to keep the magazine secured while in the cockpit?
I was not aware of such a perfect thing existing
Off topic i know, but does anyone know how many rounds of rifle/machine gun/pistol ammo were expended by the combatants during the war in europe during the first world war. Its easy to find how many artillery shells were fired (British - 170 million, Germans 222 million), but i cannot find out about small arms.
An interesting topic. After a bit of rooting around the internet I found "in the First World War .....7,000 million Mk 7 ball cartridges were produced by British factories alone" which gives some idea of scale
Don't forget CALIBER vs CALIBRE.
Even if the pistol was pitted and one of the 5's was hard to see you'd still see the difference between ER and RE.
My Great Grandad was issued with one of these in the RAF. Always said that extra .005" makes all the difference. He did well with the ladies during the war so I guess he was right!
At 1:00, I wish you had run the close-up of the Webley you were describing.
ruclips.net/video/HSDygkzGQRo/видео.html
@@ForgottenWeapons Thank you for a fast reply! :) It was just a bit dissonant to me to be looking at one pistol while you were describing another. Still great info about BOTH guns!
We should be grateful they didn't ask for an AR15 in .303...with a magazine cutoff and volley fire sights out to 2000 yards.
Now there's an idea! 😁 I wouldn't be half surprised if someone looked into modifying the original AR-10's to 303 in the 50's when they came out. But they had recently created the 280 British and that would have been the way to go. Then we forced the 308/7.62 on everybody. Good cartridge it is, but it is definitely not an intermediate cartridge, as was being sought at the time.
When I visited the Churchill war room museum in London a few years ago I saw his personal Colt 1911 that he carried in the trenches in WWI. I cannot remember if it was a .45 ACP or a .455. DO you know which it was?
1911 or Webley self-loader - I wonder if the personnel they were issued to had a strong preference for one model over the other. (Hope to see a review some day on the sliding-breech Darne shotguns or the .577 Tranter revolver.)
I notice, and appreciate (as a Brit) that Ian clearly gets the difference between "English" and "British", whereas Colt, who marked the gun with and "E" rather than a "B" obviously didn't.
Back then no one gave a bugger about that unlike today where you cant say anything without "offending" someone
@@tango6nf477 Field Marshal Hague regularly referred to Britain or even the Empire as England despite being a Scot
I had no idea. Very nice.
Very cool ammo package 📦
I like how Ian can make guns magically appear 😁
Given they are dimensionally close would a ACP chamber and fire in the British or Webley 455 chamber and fire in the US 1911?
Pretty sure the rim would cause magazine issues
For some reason I think that this is super valuable.
i was lucky enough to inherit one of these beauties with 20 rounds of the .455
what a gem
Another great info learning video for me , Thankyou
Gorgeous example
Is that a Sten 4 behind you? Could you possibly do a video on it?
The proof marks are interesting. From the beginning of British proof law the marks were a form of crossed scepters with a V or a P for view and proof. Government proof houses had a crown over the scepters and I can't quite remember what the civilian proof mark was other than it was a variation of crossed scepters. As you might guess, my era of expertise is the muzzleloading era. So imagine my surprise when you showed the crossed banners and the mark with the banner part worn away or not properly struck, the staff of the banner was exactly the same as the handles of the crossed scepters. So from the early Georgian era to the (Edwardian?) era the proof marks for firearms and other martial weapons vary only a little. Proof marks alone make for an interesting study if that's what floats your boat.
Is it true that these guns could take .45 ACP in desperate circumstances, but not the other way around? I have also heard that the initial experimental version of the .455 cartridge was significantly faster out the muzzle; however, I also note that the difference is exactly 100 metres per second, so this might be a typographical error that crept into the secondary source.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the .455 1911 is one of the very few centerfire handguns you can legally own in the UK without modifications due to the age and the obsolescence of the calibre.
Was the recoil spring actually the same? It might be hard to tell by looking. It's a locked breech action, so it might not have mattered, but I wonder.
With so similar energy levels, I expect that it was.
I remember seeing one of these for sale in Connecticut in the mid-1960's.