Progressive Christianity's Goal isn't About Finding Truth.
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- There's a very unique thing about the Progressive Christian movement, and that's what its ultimate goal is. When Christians deconstruct, what they are looking for can be different. So what is a common theme that's seen here? And why is there a resistance to what Church history and the Bible clearly teach? The answer is tough, but isn't that surprising.
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As a volunteer youth minister, I would often encounter young people who had been "injured" by "the church" or by "Christians" or a "Christian".. I would tell them about my dog. I would tell them I had to finally had to get rid of my dog because of all the things he did that drove me crazy. He would scratch all my furniture legs trying to sharpen his claws. He would rub against my legs with arched back but not let me pet him. He would not use the litter box and mess up my apartment. He would scratch me and anyone who visited me with his sharp claws. After several of these descriptions of my dog's behavior, one student would finally stop me and say "Mr. Dale, you are not describing a dog. That's a cat you are talking about." "No!" I would insist. "It was a dog." My student would argue and insist that I was absolutely NOT describing dog behavior, but CAT behavior. I would tell them I KNOW it was a dog because my veterinarian TOLD me it was a dog. The student would say that my veterinarian was wrong! I would finally say "Yes. He was wrong". I would tell the group that some of them had shared with me how "Christians" had hurt them or lied to them or betrayed them. I would say "But the people you described to me don't sound like Christians at all. In fact, they sound like the opposite." I would then share with them the fruits of the spirit, and Bible verses which deal with behavior and outer signs in a person's life which indicate that they are indeed a "real" Christian. I would encourage them to always judge truth by what the Bible says, not what people say.
I love that. Thanks for sharing. I’m going to keep that story in my back pocket for similar situations.
I’m glad you shared this wisdom and I hope thousands of people read it. You’ve helped immensely.
That is perfect!
Your first boyfriend or girlfriend may have hurt you, does that mean you won't get married one day.
I love this! Thanks for sharing.
I grew up in a very conservative Church of Christ and at 7 I told my parents that if this is God then I don’t want anything to do with Him. I always believed in God and Jesus and never denied them but I was in my 40s before I realized I was brought up under a legalistic Biblical teaching with no understanding of the love, mercy, and grace of God. I know it sounds crazy but I watched the movie Pollyanna and realized I knew the Bible but had no understanding or knowledge of who God was. Learning about God over the years turned me around to accept the free gift of salvation Jesus offered with His death, burial, and resurrection. I continue to study the Word and am thankful every day for being able to get past the hurt of my upbringing and start looking for the one true God of the Bible. From all of it I learned how important it is to read and study the Bible and not take someone else’s word for what it says. A good study Bible is a must.
I also grew up in the churches of Christ but had a good experience. Sorry yours wasn't. I'm glad you found a relationship with God!
Pollyanna, a great movie we watched it in Sunday School, 😊
@@tjmaverick1765same.
2 Corinthians 5:17
[17]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
There is no god. It's all a fairytale.
Biblical and helpful. Also i appreciate your letting your guests talk without constant interrupting. Thank you.
I SO agree! Talk show hosts are always interrupting their guests!
Yes! I like how Melissa tosses out the question and then really listens.
Yes, I rlly appreciate that about her too
Me too! Thanks, Melissa.
"Just going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car" - G.K. Chesterton
That is Not a Quote from Chesterton, Who by the way Died before Car became a Normal Word to use here.
Matters not who said it originally. It is still true.
@@skwills1629 Ok fine, "automobile" it is still attributed to Billy Sunday and G.K. Chesterton
@@jasonwagener5469 - But it is Not from Chesterton.
I prefer: Going to church makes you a Christian like going to McDonalds makes you a Hamburger.
In talking to many atheists who said they were Christians I have found out that they never had a clear understanding of God. This video has confirmed what I suspected.
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us
@@JubeeBijouThat's just where my head went! ❤
@@JubeeBijou Of course!
That’s called confirmation bias.
Not been my experience.
My brother is a "deconstructed Christian" and I was really struggling with my faith a few years ago, and he encouraged me to listen to some deconstructionists online, and I did for a while, but what I came across over and over again was a lack of basic theological understanding by these people. It is the reason why I stopped listening to them. Last year, I read Jinger Vuolo's book about her journey of disentangling the lies she was taught in the IBLP growing up from the truth, and that has resonated with me. I'm searching for TRUTH, not a religion that makes me feel good.
What is IBLP?
@@terryp3034 it stands for the Institute of Basic Life Principles. It was started by Bill Gothard in the 1970's. They've changed quite a bit since he left due to being accused of taking advantage of young girls and women, but when he was in charge, it was an extremely culty movement (and it still is to an extent, but in a different way since there's different leadership now).
If you are searching for truth, consider the true vine in John 15. Biblical truth is not what we understand it to be. The Greek word is aletheia. This word begins with an alpha, a negative particle. The part of the word being negated means to be hidden. Truth means to unveil, to reveal. The true vine is the vine that reveals that which had been hidden for ages and generations - the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
Diagram the true vine and you will find it is the key that unveils the mysteries. As the Father loved me, so have I loved you. Diagram the Father, the Son, and you, with love traveling from the Father to the Son, then to you. This love is divine because the agency of the love is the Holy Spirit. Continue the diagram, as I have loved you, love one another. Add another to your diagram, with love flowing from you to one another with the agency of the love being the Holy Spirit. This love is the work of the Spirit using your resources. It is you working together with the Holy Spirit. All things that are done together with God are righteous (Romans 8:28).
That simple diagram will unveil to you all the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. The recursive nature of the diagram shows it to be a vine. It is true because it reveals the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. All the parables map into the true vine. All the teachings of the New Covenant are explained in this model.
For example, everyone knows what grace is, sort of. But in the model, you can see it for what it is. It is the divine love that travels from the Father to the Son to you and to one another. This love hits every aspect of the kingdom of heaven, showing up in many contexts, yet it is one thing, divine love. As it comes to you, it becomes the law written upon your heart. As it travels from you to one another, it becomes the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you. Mercy is grace coming to you as love in the form of forgiveness. Mercy is grace as you love another, fulfilling the law of love in the form mercy to one another. (Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.)
The things written upon your heart are written in your account, which is on the tables of your heart. It is this account that you will give to God on judgment day. The content of your account will be the basis of your justification or condemnation.
This has come to me as a result of my deconstruction of Evangelical doctrine. Without this journey, I would still be in the walking in darkness. All definitions need to be thrown out. Accept their definitions and you accept their theology.
I hope this initiates your path into a valid deconstruction experience. Deconstruction should bring you closer to God, not farther away.
I said the repeat after me "sinners prayer" likely a half dozen times; have been baptized into 3 different "churches" thru the years. 🫤
I never met Jesus in a single building or belief system I sat in or under.
He led me to Himself in a doctors office where I had every intention to meditate myself to deal with this world and my life in it.
I never said a prayer.
This doctor never even touched me. He simply said '"I don't think you need medication; I think you need God"...
I cut that testimony really short but I walked out of there changed... In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
I always wondered how people had a born again day... I know now. You will know. You are not the same. You may sin..
You may deny Jesus like Peter did, but you can't remain in that state. You will come back... Like Jesus knew Peter would.
You come into True contact with God, you cannot remain the same.
You cannot stay away.
Only He has Life.
Bread and Living Water. ❤️
_I Timothy 4:1 NKJV_
*[1] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,*
Scripture foretold of these times. Gotta love just how pinpoint God's Word is 🎯.
I think we’re seeing that right now. The atheists are rejoicing at the tidal wave of those deconstructing.
AND this is the great falling away prophesied in the scriptures!! Seeing these things are disheartening but at the same time it confirms my faith more because all the prophecies are coming to pass!
The 'deceiving spirits' I see are political. The worship of a man, a political party, a flag, a nation. How many people worship where they live and attack anyone who mentions a flaw that we need to address?
@@lorisalim4598define: "worship " please
6:33 Thank you Tim!! Understanding the gospel is much easier while abiding in Christ and relying upon the Holy Spirit to guide you. James 1:5-6
As a former JW, [in my personal experience], I did not realize how enmeshed their governing body and Jehovah were at my time of leaving. So when I turned my back on them, it included God for a time [basically the whole old testament God] - when in reality what I wanted to do was give the governing body the finger. Pro tip: revenge is not sweet when you retaliate and actually go ahead and 'do the crime' for which you were told to 'do the time'. Now as a born again Christian, I still get to navigate life with the repercussions of my past decisions - which is not an excuse to despair, I just have to rely on God more - but if you can [as the saying goes] take the stones that are thrown at you and build an empire, I think your experience will be nicer.
Oh, and Pro Tip #2: If you're given counsel from a fellow dysfunctional human [who may or may not equate themselves with being on par with God, therefore qualified to flog you with scripture], pray that Holy Spirit clean up and decode that message so you can find the gem in it that relates to [and benefits] you, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And if it's a JW or their ilk, please do not assume they know true, sound, biblical doctrine in the first place. YOU get to 'make sure of all things', so don't put that off.
I was raised Jw also.
Accepted Jesus in 1980.
It was 2 day event for me trying to decide whether living was worth it as my hubby & had divorced. It was very difficult time. My hubby saved my life a got real Christians to go see me. Spent hours with me as accepted Jesus. It as hit over the head. Washed clean literally felt it. Tears of sorry became tears of joy in matter of seconds. My husband and I got remarried. 54 yrs together. He was raised a born again Christian. Being born again is just like it says and feels. A miracle for me and those that knew me. The old me then to a new me in Christ.
@@LiveforHim73 Oh, thank you for sharing this part of your testimony...I'm SO glad you're still here [and thank God for your husband and the real Christians who showed up and did what real Christians do]! Isn't 'the real thing' amazing [vs what we got with JWs]? God's word has never hit me so close to the bone, so to speak...I, more often than not, am reduced to tears of gratitude and awe, over realizing what the reality of being in a covenant with Christ entails and what it took on God's part to launch it - so we can be saved.
JWs who wait for the governing body to tell them if they're anointed or not, get none of this - nothing, nada, zippo. It's so dead. And sad. And alarming.
If a person truly has had that I need Jesus moment, there is no way you'll say, " I was a Christian." I was in my 40s when it happened to me. However, before then, I definitely would have told I was a Christian and love Jesus. I didn't know Him, though, and I really didn't have an understanding of my own depravity. I had this moment of "I need to go before God now and handle my crap before eternity. There was shame I knew only God could take care of. There's a struggle and humbling in this walk. Every day, there's a stumble and step toward that "high calling in Christ." You trip up, but there's this drive to spend eternity with your Maker and Savior, so you ask for His strength, grace, and mercy and keep it pushing. Your identity is grounded in Christ. This is not disposable, nor would you want to give up the inheritance in Christ. So, deconstructionist lack depth primarily.
You wrote this so well ❤ this is really reassuring to me.
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.”
I John 2:19
Oh my goodness. I just posted the same verse!!
@@haltersweb amazing huh? 😄
No true scotsman.
@@Michael-Archonaeus🤣
@@pianogal853 Person A: .No Christian would ever deny his lord and savior
Person B: But this Christian denied his lord and savior!
Person A: No _"true"_ Christian would ever deny his lord and savior.
I resonate with just looking for truth, I grew up in a very legalistic church & I was researching & debating pastors from a very young age, I have not cared if I like it or not as long as it's truth. It did take many years to start a real relationship with Christ. Up till then, it was purely analytical. I do sometimes wonder why I kept going because I was hurt & kicked out of a lot of churches, but I think it is because my feelings didn't really matter, truth does.
In the End Truth is All that Matters.
That’s true. That’s why I left.
Ain’t no way some of my favorite RUclipsrs made a vid together
❤❤ God led me through a deconstruction process from organized religion after I became sober. He drew me back to Him and after 21 years of sobriety, drew me deeper through His word. His Spirit is the best guide and teacher. I even experienced deliverance by standing in faith, applying the principles therein and allowing Him to cleanse me through confession. Not through man, but Him. Applying forgiveness and love, His way, the best I could and can. It's a daily choice. When I began to choose forgiveness for all the "church" hurt, I truly began to heal. God is love, but not the love the world states. His love is sacrificial and not self serving. 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
That's it Mary. Jesus himself is the one we have to come to.
@@kladies3021, amen! More of Him, less of me. He will drive out anything not of Him, we cooperate and let Him! So grateful to have been addicted to alcohol. It really brought me to the end of myself. Humility leads to a lifetime of healing. 🙌🏼🙌🏼❤
I appreciate you three. You pray and don’t faint. It is termed “deconstruction” not “reconstruction”. They seek not the truth. They are not reformers, but deformers. Keep speaking the true gospel.
Wow, just the title of this episode is eye opening. The search for truth is paramount to Christianity.
Interesting how so many that claim to be deconstructing can’t pinpoint a true conversion experience based in repentance. That makes me think that we, as the church are not doing a very good job of truly preaching the gospel, rather are we selling an emotional experience of saying the sinners prayer and then that’s as deep as it goes. My pastor talks about this often. As someone who grew up in the church and youth group, I knew many kids who were there every time the doors were open and then as soon as they left home, they threw it all away. Because they never had a real faith, it was just that they were as Alisa said, around it.
Also, the link with critical theory is so spot on! So much of the progressive Christianity movement is based in that as well.
Good points. Agree.
Thats true about the kids, but its still important to have them there even with that mindset. They will later in life be drawn back to Jesus. And we're only to present the gospel, not be responsible for how people receive it. Everyone has a different faith journey. But while i was a youth leader and prayed with them to receive Jesus, i always let them know that its the beginning and theres things to do and expect from now on. I knew the prayer was only a declaration. Although an important and necessary one. ♡
Its not that you the church are not going a great job. Its the whole concept of a god relying on the words of man. I should not need man to get to a god. My studies have shown me that the only way to a man made god is to go through man. The concept of us subscribing to a god that relies on the written/spoken words of man have failed us all.. And many of us are starting to see that.
@@oldschool5 Jesus in the Bible tells us to go tell the world the good news. We need pastors and the church as well as individuals to do this. Salvation doesn't come from them, but it does put people on a right path. If you dispute that, then you need to be more in the Word. No one saves but God, but his people are commissioned to spread the Word. ♡
@@BB.halo_heir Where in the bible did Jesus ever tell you guys to tell the world the good news?
All religions rely on man to speak on behalf of the deity of said religion. The only way to Jesus or any other god is through man. The god of these religions never speak for self and are never able to make themselves known to others without man. Does that make sense?
Father God give me strength I seem to bear the weight of the world on my shoulders as a single mom, I often face challenges that can seem insurmountable especially with raising two children with special needs. I’m trying to balance everything but Lord I’m struggling to make ends meet, to pay bills, and to put food on the table for my children. At times I want to give up but I know God will provide. ❤️
You make this same type comment on many channels. Why?
I think the desire to know what is “real” truth whether we like what we discover or not, is the defining characteristic. Seeking THE truth is what led me to Christ.
Thanks for the Vid Melissa!
It's a sad theme throughout deconstruction stories and those leaving cults or churches that claim to be Christian;
They claim they were something they didn't truly understand and "deconstructing" is just the excuse for their desire to breakup with the Lord for the sake of their own desire.
Oh my goodness, this is so so helpful and clarifying. I'm a new Christian (formerly agnostic and then New Age), and my husband is agnostic. He says he was raised Catholic and understands Christianity, but it's clear to me that he doesn't, and this gives me more context into all of the misperceptions he has absorbed about Christianity. My husband justifies the authority of his understanding with the fact that he "sung in the church choir" and was an "alter boy," implying that those experiences confirm his understanding of faith. The way he describes Christianity, it's clear that he doesn't understand the heart posture of it, as he describes it as a religion that is all about shame, control, and power.
My husband had sent me then video of Rhett's deconstruction testimony, and the testimony confused me. You all have so articulately explained why it confused me and what Rhett's testimony lacked regarding his relationship with Jesus.
When Alisa says how she sought to pursue truth, no matter if she liked it or not, no matter if it resonated with her, I felt the Holy Spirit so strongly. It was that phrase, when a Christian said that to me earlier this year, that made me see Christianity in a new light and truly consider it.
Thank you so much for creating this video, Melissa!
Many who leave the faith are a reflection of what happens in the parable of the Sower.
I was part of a charismatic congregation for about 40 years and I know of several worship leaders we had over the years that abandoned their faith. Plus at least one youth group leader.
I know of a chap who in his younger years led a very successful youth group with his wife. He had a Christian band and led worship at Spring Harvest. Thing was, he had his lover around at the marital home and took her with him to Spring Harvest. His wife fled after 25 years of sexual, physical and emotional abuse, finally believing he would carry out his threat to kill her.
$275!!!??? Seriously?!?!?
There's a weird line of thinking from those on the deconstruction/decommission path.
Thanks for this video, Melissa! Great insights, Tim and Alisa!
What a great trio here! I'm a big fan of all of you, more of these please! God bless you all
I literally just had a conversation with a Mormon who used this concept of relative truth to dismiss everything I said. It's very difficult to have a logical discussion with someone when they aren't even on the same playing field you are with regard to the concept of what truth even is.
It will always be difficult to have a conversation with someone who keeps moving the goal posts.
This video committed the no true scotsman fallacy over and over again.
Autism is either a demon or medical. Repent and get delivered.
Go read the Bible and ask God to reveal His truth to you. He will, but you have to set aside your pride and quit listening to people. @@Michael-Archonaeus
@@tracy5721 "Go read the Bible"
Did. Even translated a large portion of it myself. Learned Arabic and started reading the Quran. Have been reading the Hindu scriptures too, along with the Greek, Roman, and Norse religious traditions, and I love all of it. I think each tradition has received revelation from God.
"ask God to reveal His truth to you."
Yeah, I did that. His answer lead me to begin reading the Quran.
"He will, but you have to set aside your pride"
What pride? My Christian pride in Jesus, my lord and savior?
"quit listening to people."
Oh, like you. Ok. Bye.
@@Michael-Archonaeus
Rawr!!! 🐯
It's amazing how empty 'Christianity' is without Jesus. Unless the person of the Father is revealed through the Son, there is no surrender to His Spirit, no transformation possible and no life.
there is no Christianity without Jesus
Great discussion bringing up critical talking points that those who have "deconstructed" use. I've experienced this in my own family. Thank you for teaching us all what is true about it.
Wow, thank you so much for this discussion! To finally, more clearly understand that one of us is seeking truth while the other declares that it cannot be known is SO helpful. Somehow it never quite clicked with me what exactly was happening and why people often talk past each other. Now that I have a clearer picture I feel so much more equipped for such conversations should they ever arise.
Great vid. Great lineup. Where's Mike Winger? :)
Yeah! Where’s Mike?
She has videos with him! 😊👍
Probably recording a new ten-part series …😅
Or 6 hour video
Oh my goodness, that would be an amazing lineup.
1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us
Thank you! Excellent! As an ex-catholic married to an ex-seventh day adventists, we approve this message.
I can't recall a singular moment where I was
convicted of my sinfulness as Alisa describes.
I remember my pastor coming from a similar
perspective and I had to search very hard in
my memory and I remembered reading the
Bible and at a certain point reading Jesus'
words and thinking, "this is God speaking."
And I feel that is the moment I was born again.
I am convicted of my sinfulness, I just never
had a singular moment as Alisa describes.
I think she's referencing that those leaving the faith were never really in it. Repentance is key. Obedience is the fruit.
Great conversation. That last third! I listened to that part twice!
They seek to twist truth to suit their needs.
Idolatry
1 John 2:19 -
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
It sounds like being a political progressive/liberal/leftist (especially as a young person) puts people in the ballpark of “progressive Christianity” and eventual “deconstruction”. I think that’s true.
You are spot on! I am a Christian living in the Word now✝️, but when I was a Progressive ‘Christian,’ my radical leftist politics had great influence on me changing my theology to be ‘progressive.’
@@alexandriarcollins It’s so good to hear that you’re walking with the Lord. Unfortunately my 33 year old daughter has drifted politically to the left and deconstructed. Plus she has friends that aren’t a Christian influence. As far as I knew she was following the Lord. Her deconstruction was also due to lots of other things in her life but I’m keeping on her plus praying for her and her husband who likely had a lot to do with her deconstruction. The reason I partly think leftism has a substantial effect on people is that much of the left’s ideology and political positions are are anti-Christian at their core, like abortion, LGBTQ, satanism, occult, drug legalization, corruption, etc. People are deceived into thinking it’s all OK. However, God has a problem with that stuff and lets people go their own way. Thanks for your post!
@@scotthutchens1556 I’m glad you were blessed by my post. Also, I’m sorry you to hear that about your daughter! I sympathize with all that you’re going through. My mother was worried about me when I deconstructed. She’s very happy that I have turned around because I fell for many of the cultural idols of our day & it caused her much pain.
I just prayed for your daughter. Don’t lose hope! God bless🙏🏼💗
@@alexandriarcollins Thank you very much! Blessings in Christ!
“Progressive “ anything is not about finding the truth.
That is literally what it is about though.
💯 There is no truth there and I would suggest they don't really want to find any.
@@jerilowehowell6015 Whether the truth is there or not, that doesn't change the fact that people are honestly seeking the truth.
@@Michael-Archonaeusvery good point
The truth is not found in the lies of preachers or within the pages of the fairytale bible.
I’m a person who has deconstructed from religious dogma, but have kept my absolute love for Jesus. I would say that the reason most people lose their faith in Jesus (by observation) is that they adopt a rationalist perspective in all matters. Science is a great thing and has advanced humanity, however the scientific method cannot be applied to everything. These folk ‘rationalize’ away their experience as an emotional (and not true) experience. My encounter with Jesus was real and life-changing and I’ll never be prepared to dismiss it as ‘just’ an emotional experience.
I agree what keeps me in Christ is that I continually want to know the hunger for what is true
The whole “were they ever really saved@ scenario/ question was addressed by Jesus in the parable of the sown seed. The majority of the seed never grew to bear fruit but begin growing as wheat. (It says grain, I’m assuming wheat for convenience here) stole, shallow rooted, or choked out. They all died. The good news comes to most in all forms but it doesn’t guarantee a harvest.
Oh wow, this is the first time I'm associating that parable with people who deconstruct or say they "fell away from the church." That is spot on.
Excellent video! I particularly appreciated the connection with Critical Theory and the revelation that it is all about power and power dynamics such that truth is considered a construct for the purpose of taking or keeping power.
Time to rename the "No True Scotsman" fallacy as the "No True Christian" fallacy.
Sure, buddy because authentic Christians can't tell who R the fake ones!!!
Yeah. Who has true trust/faith in Christ the Savior and who has repented and who has cried out to the LORD for forgiveness for his/her sins and who has not?
If a person has an ethnic history that derives entirely from southeast Asia (that being, they lack actual defining characteristics of what makes a Scotsman), then they are in fact not a Scotsman.
Interesting line of thought.
Have you researched the Resurrection?
Objective truth does exist and it's worth searching for.
Deconstruction is literally another word for I was never truly a Christian.
Its a euphemism for demolition the the effeminate tight jeaned dudes that like what they see when they look in the mirror.
Not every follower of Jesus has or had the beating on their chest experience. That is not an absolute sigh of conversion. I never beat my chest, crawl down an aisle, it happened for me during a morning run. I stopped confessed my need for a savior, asked for Him to remove my sin and then kept running. I have now served Him for over 35+ years. Let's be careful on how we determine the faith of others.
Blessings all! That is exactly what these deconstructionists are doing. One guy that I listen to (to learn more about why people deconstruct) offers other religions to follow.
He goes verse by verse book by book in the Bible.
They haven't met the real Christ yet. If you have, you submit wholeheartedly. Who in their right mind would walk away from the one and only person who sacrificed Himself for you, saving you from an eternity of torment? No one. Just those who are either ignorant, indifferent, independent, indoctrinated, or indignant. And it's fitting that all of those words begin with "I".
3:12- There is a difference between "believing that" and trusting in." I like how Alisa Childers put that. Excellent insight.
Why this term 'deconstruction?' Why not clearly call it what it is, such as 'questioning,' or even 'turning away?' Why are we accepting that this might be ok? To me, this seems like the 'new buzz word.'
As a youth pastor in the 90s, something about Joshua Harris’s teachings just didn’t sit right with me
Felt like “the lady doth protest too much”
Thank you …so enlightening 😊 as truth always is 😊
Thank you!
What denominations statistically are the most susceptible to deconstructing? I’m curious. As some seem very inoculated against it while others are not at all.
I deconstructed Christianity. In fact, I deconstructed so hard I got a master’s degree in postmodern philosophy so I could deconstruct thoroughly and correctly. What I ended up realizing was that the conservative orthodox Jews who started the postmodern movement after WWII had a fuller philosophical description of God than Christians were offering. And the most basic parts of the gospel can’t be deconstructed-you can deconstruct theological abstractions, but you can’t deconstruct personal testimony (which is the basis of the resurrection). In fact, the motive force of “deconstruction”-critique-is the most amazing proof and description of God human philosophy has ever come up with. Anyway, I’m a stronger Christian for it.
This discussion correctly criticizes people who do deconstruction wrong, but there’s a way to do it right.
I love your comment so much ❤
Before the internet traditional religions beliefs, traditions, and teachings were virtually immune from analysis and criticism. The internet changed that. Factual religion historical data is now easily accessible to the world. That information comes from Bible Scholars, like Bart Ehrman, among many others, rather than apologist.
Religion had never been intellectually challenged before the internet. I was a 47 year Christian fundamentalist, but after years of studying and researching the historical reality of religion, I’m no longer a believer.
This video is evidence that “believers” are clueless when it comes to understanding the challenge organized religion is facing.
This is so good. I hope there is more.
So helpful. Thank you
$275 to renounce my faith??? I think I can figure it out on my own. NOT. Thanks for this video.
How do you get started in a ministry like this? I am a pastor, but I have worked with cultists as well. My ministry does not seem to be going well. How can I make more contact with them?
I’m Canadian and seeing my country fall apart, and at the same time I’m learning about deconstruction and what it means ( and of course what it means to one person vs another because everyone is individual … it blows my mind how ‘we’ can all have “our truth” around one idea/word…. Why have a dictionary anymore? Each person can have their own definition ….and to dispute that definition is to dilute their whole being somehow!)
Anyhow can anyone elaborate or link anything on the term “colonization/decolonization” of faith? That sounds so bizarre to me but I’m curious what that really means to someone using that term/identifying with that. I’m used to hearing with our current political climate of colonization being a terrible terrible thing. So understanding from this so called faith view point would be great . Thank
Thanks!
Great conversation. I've learned valuable perspectives.
There are some very sobering implications to the realities that these three are (rightly) highlighting. As they point out early on in this video, it's worth questioning what depth or level of sincerity many ex-Christian/deconstructionists had in the first place (as Alisa Childers noted, "what Jesus was it that was his best friend, if he now believes Jesus is dead"... in reference to one 'deconstruction evangelist.'). If it's true then that many of the # deconstructionist crowd lacked a truly genuine conversion/born again experience (despite "being in Awana, youth group, on worship team, etc.), then we have to consider the possibility that many of our current "Awana, youth group, worship team, etc" members (even in leadership!) in many contemporary 'thriving' churches have never had a genuine conversion/born again experience! This is one of the sobering (but accurate) implications of the realities of the battle now facing the Lord's people in this hour. Thanks to Alisa, Tim and Melissa for helping us grapple with how to navigate all this in a Godly way.
That is a truly excellent point.
Perhaps reading Randal Rauser's book Progresives Love Jesus too, Melissa would see differently.
Thank you for this! We have to stop assuming that everyone who speaks the name of Jesus is one of his. Test everything.
You can’t discount the slow burn of sanctification. I’m still learning years later.
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As always an excellent episode, Many Thanks
Please pray for my friend Eric. He grew up JW and he is still tormented. I ask that he get to know Jesus the way he was intended to. Thank you all ❤
I've seen this happen in my own family. People go from one extreme of Christianity to the other, and never find the Truth in the middle! Looking for God in all the wrong places! People who start out raised in a legalistic church like the Church of Christ begin to question God--"is He really all that harsh?" And then move toward Episcopalian or some other liberal church where they find a softer, kinder God. And they never find the true God!
Would love to see a book on the religious nature of deconstruction!
Wow! That was quite informative thx!😊
Scary scary stuff. When the speaker and the listener do not agree on foundational beliefs about reality, morality, etc. It is very difficult to find common ground, especially in this case where the listener is likely starting from a moderately strong negative opinion about what you are saying.
It is an interesting question to ask, though, about who is it that decides what's in the lower level and what's in the higher. How can you know for certain that morality and righteousness, etc. shouldn't actually be in the lower level? Have you eve questioned why it was placed there, or are you just agreeing with something you already had faith was "true" (there's that pesky word again)?
Perhaps, reading Randal Rauser's book Progressives Love Jesus Too, Melissa would see a different angle.
What we win them with is what win them to. I think in large part this is demonstrative of what is being done to the gospel.
Childers doubts Rhett was ever a real Christian because he eventually stopped believing, but Childers also says she deconstructed herself and almost became agnostic. So was her Christian life before her deconstruction fake then?
The claim that people who have deconstructed never had an actual moment of crying out to God in repentance is simply not true. I had MANY moments of crying out to God and repenting. I read the Bible, prayed, served for years in my church and felt genuine, true relationship with Jesus. I’ve deconstructed. I also know many people with a story just like mine.
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it's the parts that I do
understand." Samuel Clemons.
Logic is the antithesis of spirituality. It amazes me how many people claim to be ‘spiritual but not religious’ because they cannot aspire to a dogmatic belief system but then list all the logical reasons why they think they are spiritual beings.
Amen.
Yikes! Lord help us-literally!❤️✝️❤️
Yup. Reconstruction beats deconstruction hands up !
I wonder if one of you (Melissa, Tim or Alisha) would go through some of the "deconstruction videos like the Rhett and Link one you mentioned and analyze it for people.
On the topic of everyone has God's Law written on their hearts, someone said they sought God and found nothing, God didn't show up. I didn't ask what they were following, i just said to read the Bible with an open mind and heart, to try again. So maybe deconstructioners aren't really following in the first place. They might have a relationship, but with who, with what.
Glad I could advance the LIKE counter. ✌️😁
Having deep feelings that you’re a sinner is not what defines you as a Christian. So they are on the fine line of teaching another gospel.
The Bible teaches to turn to Christ in belief that what he did on the cross is sufficient for salvation not by works. Faith alone in Christ alone.
The difference between believers and non-believers is the difference between fantasy and faith. A non-believer, regardless of their confession will always have fantasy at the core of their belief system. Fantasy can be altered at will. Saving faith cannot be changed because it does not come from the believer but from God. You can no sooner change saving faith than you can change the will of God. They are one and the same.
If people said Buddhists sacrifice children, then everyone would correct them and say, “They have never done that??”
And if someone said they met a Buddhist that believes it’s ok to do this, they would say, “That person isn’t really a Buddhist, then…” or “They didn’t learn that from Buddhism”
Christianity is the only religion nonbelievers won’t stand up for, when misinformation is being spread about it.
If it has the word PROGRESSIVE in it, IT IS NOT GOOD!
Good information!
❤
Not to be unecessarily divisive but niether is protestant christianity. If our protestant brother are unwilling to be spiritually and intellectually honest, how can they expect these others to be. Its just further down the same path and even the logical conclusion of that path.
I'm curious what you mean. Could you explain more? I'm new to Christianity and am still learning the distinctions between Catholicism and Protestantism. I attend a Baptist church, but I am curious to understand why Protestants, who came so much later in history, have been able to offer a different understanding of Christianity that differs from what historically was practiced.
@@estrellasyfrases So specifically I draw attention to the title of the vid that places an importance on "Finding Truth". The irony is that the honesty it takes to do so is lacking from the protestant perception of the faith. If you are decidedly submitted to Christ, through his church, seeing the obvious institution of church discipline and church leadership in scripture. However, you come to have an irreconcilable difference of understanding/interpretation of scripture in some point of doctrin with your church. Let's say it's something important and salvific, like baptisim. How is the dispute settled in a definitive and authoritative way, so that the body of Christ is unified as Christ prayed? There is nothing that can achieve this in protestantisim, yet this is exactly what Christ instituted, a means of unity and sustainable authority. If you leave your church, you can simply join a church that agrees with your new interpretation. This ultimately make you the infallible authority to which your submitted. Self submission is not submission to Christ. Honesty in giving the biblical/ historical ecclesiology a fair shake would be a good start. Doing the homework instead of just accepting someone says because they seem confident. The scriptures are clear that the unity of the church is possible, and that God gave us a hierarchical authoritative church, passing down through the ages the apostles authority, to supply the means of grace and to protect and proclaim the deposit of faith in its fulness. I recently decided to list all the early church father quotes attesting this clear understanding from scripture considering Papal authority and succession, apostolic succession in general, structure of Bishop-Priests-Deacon, ect. After 8 pages of writing in shorthand and summarizing, I realized there was so much material directly supporting this that was way to big of a project to tackle alone. So I just stuck to the first 500 yrs of church fathers. Still tons of writing. And often these supportive quotes are are from men who studied directly from an apostle or from the guy that did. In all of this there is never a hint of 'sola scriptura', 'elder led' churches, 'congregationalisim', symbolic only baptisim, symbolic only Eucharist, 'Sola fide'. No one ever believed these things until they were added as inventions of men 1600 yrs after Christ. The church that is the Catholic church today holds the same teaching, doctrines, and practices it recieved from the apostles 2024 years ago. They got it from Jesus and that deposit of faith is faithful kept pure by the Holy Spirit of God as promised in scripture. To hold otherwiseisto admit that yes, the gates of hell prevailed against the church and Christ got it wrong and the holy spirit failed.
Many are rejecting Christianity based on what others have incorrectly told them and hypocritically showed them rather than what the Bible actually says. Christianity is simply not what some “Christians”say it is. When we read it for ourselves and realize that Jesus spoke extensively about religious hypocrisy and when we reject Christianity based on hypocrisy we are rejecting fallen man and not Gods word.
Thanks for posting
Dear true Christians ~ help me spread the word around the world. Everyone must treat everyone with love kindness and respect. Let us see how many people around the world to start treating everyone with love kindness and respect. Tell me what you guys think about this. Much Love Sage ❤
The critics criticize religion and the church and say it's all about power to control and influence people, while establishing their own structure of power to control and influence people. Religion is about one thing; status. It's a way of organizing status so some can elevate themselves above others. It's based on envy, and it's the old pyramid structure of Egypt, with the many at the bottom and the few at the top. It's like these people who claim to be against racism. They're not trying to get rid of racism, they want to be in charge of it. They don't really want to get rid of oppression, they want to elevate themselves to the top of the power structure so they can be the oppressors. All religions follow this structural pattern, and we're seeing it everywhere now, not just in religion.
God did not send us religion; he sent his only begotten son to show us what they meant when the Word said "Let us make man in our image." All religions are organizations (mostly created by men) for the purposes of power and control. And where there's the opportunity for power and control, there are those who seek that status, at every level. They want to be important, to appear to be important. They use the authority of the name of God to micromanage others. They think being a Christian is being able to quote scripture at you. They're in love with churchianity. They know scripture, they know the Bible, but they do not know God. They study the Bible to gain knowledge, but they lack understanding. Knowing the Bible isn't the goal. It's just a tool to help us to begin to know God.
We are being flooded with deception everywhere and at every level, and it's being driven by the deceiver. To withstand it, do what Jesus commanded us to do: John 13:34 (NIV) "A new command I give you. Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." The definition of that love is spelled out in 1st Corinthians 13:1-13, and it begins with "Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy...." and so on. Look it up and read it. This was a COMMAND from Jesus, not a suggestion. In order to obey that command, you must first know how he loves you, and that's where studying the Bible comes in. Study it to learn about Jesus, about God; not to just read it like a book. ASK him in prayer to join you, teach you, lead you through understanding each of the attributes. That IS the straight and narrow path. Do it together WITH him, not separately 'for' him. Too many people do things 'for' God, but in reality, they're doing it for themselves to make themselves feel important.
The greatest command in the law was to love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and the second greatest was to love your neighbor as yourself. For God so loved the world, he sent his only begotten son. Jesus commands us to love one another as he has loved us. Paul said after everything perishes, the law, prophecy, everything... 3 things will remain; faith, hope and love, but the greatest is love. There's a common message and theme there, and it has nothing to do with religion.
Amen! 🙌
MAGA Christian politicians are passing new laws every month to make it difficult for blacks to vote. This is a fact in Georgia, North Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi.
So, I’ve been walking with Yeshua for most of my life and when someone walked away from Him…I’m talking about true Believers (yes, that does happen - I did it) we called them backslidden or prodigals. Point…only those who have been truly born again can be called prodigals, because the prodigal son was IN the father’s house….he wasn’t outside. Let’s call them what they are…backslidden. I am so sick of these buzz words.
Inerrancy is just not true. It's not about power. I'm absolutely against postmodernism.
The ones who are following a deconstructing path are those who were never Christian. Many grow up in the church never hear a clear Gospel message, they are never fully walked through it (with full knowledge of what it means), so they and the unsaved idolatrous church goers who are not saved either, along with spouses who are not saved, and in some cases teachers and preachers who arent saved also are among those who "walk away. Its because they love sin. The reason most (bible based conservative) churches today have the problem of lack of knowledge is because their pastors and teachers 1. Dont know the Bible, 2. Dont hold to it (only 37% do), thus they dont teach what it actually says. They have idolatrous pastors leading the congregations and the congregations only know what the pastors say... cuz 3. the pew sitters are not reading Scripture and knowing it, (only 2% do).
This is a failure of leadership. Jesus will spew out the lukewarm church. So truly born again congregants who have voting power need to vet a pastor deeply to ensure he is a true man of God. Same with teachers and leaders in the church. The congregation follows them
Excellent reflection. Thank you for sharing this.
This is just a more complicated version of when people would say don't cram your religion down my throat in the 90s is all this is. In the 90s people looked at street preaching and door to door evangelizing as some idea that sprung up in 1800s American Christianity but lets not forget people of olive, tan, brown and black in skin color were going door to door and street preaching in the middle east and northern Africa Christianity with the same message and doctrines as so called white theology long before anyone knew there was a North American Continent. So this deconstruction from white theology is like Barny Fife shooting himself in the foot due to being to hasty and frigidity by being willingly ignorant of the truth.
Deconstruction makes no sense.
Think of it like this: you've fallen overboard in a storm and the boat is too far past you to ever reach it. The waves are high and the rain is pounding. You struggle and struggle, but finally, exhausted, you feel the waves sucking you under. You sink below the surface once... twice...and finally just as you're about to slip into a watery grave, a helicopter appears in the sky and lowers down a rescue swimmer to you. He pulls you up, ties the safety harness to you, and lifts you up to the warm safety of the hovering helicopter. You know, without a doubt, that this person literally saved your life. You would be dead at the bottom of the ocean were it not for him.
Then one day you just sort of decided... "nah, I didn't need that rescue swimmer. He didn't really save me. I was just fine without him."
What. In. The. World?!?!
That's would be what true deconstruction from true Christianity looks like. It's not possible. All of the deconstructionists never realized how Christ saved them and how much they need him. They merely bought into the form of Christianity without ever knowing Christ or being known by him. We can only pray that they find a true faith and trust in Christ! It's simply not possible to throw away one's salvation. God himself tells us that the Holy Spirit is our deposit and guarantee. (Ephesians 1:14) God tells us nothing can separate us from his love. (Romans 8:38-39) He specifically says those who "go out" only left because they never were "part of" the invisible church to begin with, because if they had been, they would have stayed. (1 John 2:19)
Yes, I know about the passage in Hebrews. That's not about deconstruction. Chapter 6 is talking about people who have progressed passed "baby Christian" doctrine (i.e. the spiritual milk) into the harder disciplines of the faith. They come up against the hard truths of what it means to be a Christian, and they backpedal and fall away. They have heard the good news; they have tasted of the Spirit, and yet they fall away once life gets tough. They are the the seeds that were scatters among thorns or on the shallow soil: once their faith is tests, it fails. Now... one might ask, "Did such a person have a trusting relationship with Christ?" I would say probably not. They had a need and a yearning for something, and Christ seemed to fit that, but when the realities of life hit, they run off to find something else. Such a rejection, like the drowning person who denies the reality that they were saved, tells me they never really were saved to begin with... they just thought they were, but in reality there was never total surrender. There was merely outward forms and going through the motions.