Hi everyone, just a few quick updates and notes since this video was published: -In regards to what I talk about at 08:39 comparing the Comeng and X'trapolis whistles: Just days after this went live, it was announced that the remaining members of the Comeng fleet are having their lovely three-chime whistles replaced with the same single-chime model as the X'traps. Bummer. -This video caught the attention of ABC Radio Melbourne, and I was interviewed on the topic by Raf Epstein live on the afternoon 'drive' show. If you'd like to have a listen it's online here: www.abc.net.au/melbourne/programs/drive/train-whistles-too-loud/102326934 -Please note the statement at the start of the above interview about me being on a 'campaign' to reduce whistle use is untrue - the only aim of this video was raising some awareness of the inconsistency of Melbourne's rules when compared to other parts of the world. -I've had to clear out a few very angry comments from a small number of people here. As always, I welcome people to post opposing views, but please: keep it clean. Weird aggressive rants and personal attacks aren't welcome. I would also suggest watching the entire video, particularly taking note of the bit where I say "To be clear, I'm not suggesting Melbourne trains shouldn't whistle at all, but I do think the whistle would be a much more valuable warning device if it's use was less frequent." -Having said that, I think this video has generated some really interesting and positive discussion, which was exactly what it was meant to do! Thanks!
I absolutely hate the new comeng horns at my local station you have to stand basically right infront of the horns so your eardrums get obliterated by them and I couldn't tell you how many hours of sleep I've lost because of them just another metro blunder I guess
One observation: When Sydney trains express through a station (typical on an Inner West station like Newtown) and pass by the platform at high speed, there is always a warning announcement at the station. From memory, it goes something like "Attention passengers, the next train does not stop here. Please stand behind the yellow line" So, no need for the 'whistle" in this circumstance....
Specifically: "Customers on platform one, the next train to arrive on platform one does not stop at this platform. Please stand behind the yellow line, please stand clear."
Same here in Brisbane. Except it's "An express train will pass this station on Platform _ in approximately _ minutes. Please stand behind the yellow safety line"
I reckon there's a driver on the Mernda Line who whistles probably twice as much as they need to, I can usually hear about 30 whistles before they arrive at Merri Station...
The point about the whistle losing its usefulness is definitely accurate. When you were listing all the situations in which they're required, at first i was thinking that sounds like far too much and I don't remember trains whistling so much. But I think that's because i live near a station and it does just become background noise. I don't even notice it
The first time i heard a train whistle here in sweden was when riding on a branch line for the first time, and i think i jumped about 20 cm in my seat. It's such an utterly foreign thing since we've cut our rail network down to basically only main lines that have maybe 3 level crossings on the entire route, so hearing a train whistle is interpreted like a honking semitruck but scaled way up, which feels quite apocalyptic.
My Dad used to drive trains back in the 1980s & 1990s, both V/Line and the suburban trains, even freight for a little while before it went private. When I was a kid he used to tell me that one of the favourite things he liked to do was blow the whistle before the train departed louder than he needed to so he could watch all the people standing close get scared shitless and laugh at them. Ever since I started commuting I always have that running through the back of my head, and now I don't even notice when whistle is blown before departure, even if it's super loud.
i used to wait at the city facing end of the platform at my local station in the mornings and i swear the vline drivers of the one that'd pass through about 2 minutes before my loop train timed the whistle till they were as level with me as possible while still seeing my reaction and it never failed to make me jump
Canterbury Bloody Station. I always had my fingers in my ear from the moment the doors closed because I was usually heading out through the Myki scanners right beside the driver when it blew the whistle.
As a Melbournite I literally thought about this very subject yesterday, and I live on the Hurstbridge line! This takes phone microphones listening in to a whole new level; you read my mind. I'm pretty sensitive to sound, and one thing I'm conscious of when thinking about my next home is proximity to a rail line, precisely for this reason. I've lived in Japan where horns are virtually non existent much of the time, and have wondered whether our practices are relics of the past. I think a whole lot of uses of horns are likely redundant. Also, I never thought about the pleasantness of the Comeng vs Xtrap horn, but now I wish they'd retrofit them, come to think of it!
The Comeng, and all previous EMUs, and most of the diesels, had the RVB Hurricane S-75 three chime air horn. For decades, this was the sound of VR. I have a set.
@@handyandyaus yeah, I contemplated that as I wrote it and even googled it and still came up with Melbournite. I'm not sure what I was thinking, I must be losing my mind.
Japanese trains don't whistle at level crossings generally, the vast majority are controlled with gates, but they do whistle before tunnels and bridges with some exceptions. But probably the most common place to hear whistles is at stations, especially busy ones, because they do certainly use the whistle to warn people who are too close to the edge of the platform, which happens quite often. The constant reminders to stay behind the yellow line are for a reason. If you hang out above one of the busier stations like Shinjuku or Shinagawa where there's a nice viewing platform, during busy times, you'll hear lots of whistling. That said, they do usually only tap the horn briefly so that it's not annoying. When platforms are really crowded sometimes they're a bit more heavy handed about it.
6:04 as a daily commuter in Indian railways I can confirm our trains whistle a lot and i think whistling gives some important information to the daily commenters that want to understand these stuff and I would've been more than happy to provide you with footage.
Victoria recently introduced new environmental laws where noise pollution must be reduced so far as is reasonably practical. I wonder if there is any impetus on MTM and V/Line to examine this issue because of that. Great video as always!
@@idontcheckmynotifications Occasionally I get the same with parties over the back of my place. Go well past the legal time, and doesn't seem to do anything if you call the police or report it to council. Makes it impossible to sleep, and adds a lot to anxiety. I'll have to go find this new environmental law and see what it says.
As a North American resident, I appreciate this thoughtful discussion of the topic. We are absolutely whistle crazy and as a Railfan I appreciate a good lonesome whistle a blowin’, but as a technology I think it is time to revisit its application, especially in urban areas. Updating the regulation (to help ease the litigation) is key, and is slow going.
25 seconds in, nice shot of Goodwood in the 2013 to 2018 era! Side note: Trains on Adelaide Metro don't have any of the requirements for horn use (it's "horn" in Adelaide, not whistle like in Melbourne), it's entirely up to the driver to decide when to sound it, and in most cases, the driver will be able to go a whole shift without sounding the horn. I've seen driver's blowing their horn for level crossings, but it's uncommon, and usually if someones doing something they shouldn't Side, side note: Adelaide metro's 3000 class has 2 horns, one is a single, low tone, the one most commonly used for warnings, and is about half as loud as a full-blast Melbourne horn, but the second is three tones together, similar to the Comeng's horn, but as an air horn (considering the 3000 class ARE Comengs, just diesel, this make some sense), and is not something you want to be next to when it goes off, ask me how I know. EDIT: I'm finally done editing.
South Australian Railways trains were required to sound a specific "long-short-long" when approaching a level crossing, but this seems to have fallen by the wayside (trackside?) since SAR no longer exists. However, you can still hear the "long-short-long" on Steamranger trains.
@@ronwoods7778 Correct, I also realise that I forgot to mention that my comment is purely Adelaide metro and not ALL railways in Adelaide (which would include ARTC, which has a LOT of whistle boards) so I'll fix that. And I thoroughly enjoy hearing the SAR whistle, and on rare occasions on Adelaide Metro, the train I was on used the SAR horn tone to greet a trainspotter, but I've yet to be lucky enough to film it.
@@Taitset You probably don't care, but the reason I knew it was that specific a time window was because before 2013 the electric trains weren't in service, and after 2018 (though some retained parts of the AdMet until mid-2019), the 3000 class were painted into a RedMet livery. And Goodwood is very distinctive.
For anyone who is wondering, the old Comeng trains are having their RVB horns replaced with the newer, louder horns as a requirement given to metro to keep them in service for longer So instead of trying to make them quieter, they are instead getting louder
A very interesting article- thanks for posting. I live near the disused ghost station at Werribee Racecourse. Despite not being used for decades and trees covering the platform, trains still air-horn/whistle as they pass through as if the station was still in use. Very strange and just a little bit creepy.
Brit here from within the Greater London area. From my experince you have two level crossing approach "styles" the drivers fall into. Those on the former South Western (esp. those who drive the Richmond/Strawberry Hill loop where crossings are frequent) tend to not whistle/sound horns before crossings unless they see danger, whereas those on the former Southern/South Central network do. The crossing that comes to mind is at Mitcham Eastfields station (new station!) on the Portsmouth Direct from LBG. Drivers on Thameslink and Southern trains are more likely to whistle approaching this crossing, likely because grade crossings are almost non-existant elsewhere on their networks within the urban environmnet so are more trigger happy? The frieght drivers don't seem to care though. Also give a wave or a "whistle gesture", almost all drivers will give a small toot. Great fun when you're with some drunk friends and you're the only sober one! Edit: I do plan on visting Australia at some point (hopefully before the Comeng units go) because melbourne's network is just so interesting.
Highly recommend taking a look at Melbourne. Such a wonderful and complex system. I love londons network, I have heaps of routes on train simulator and know the entirety of London quite in depth. Awesome system and amazing rolling stock 😅
as someone who had to switch from a comeng/siemens/hcmt to an xtrap at Richmond to get to uni, my god that xtrap horn is a literal jumpscare! Especially when going home and walking down the ramps at the citybound end of the platform, I'm usually covering my ears and trying to anticipate the horn - sometimes even that's not enough
Another video that surprises by teaching me stuff I didn't know, that I didn't know I didn't know, had never thought of, and find surprisingly fascinating. This is content that - in theory - "could" have been produced by the companies running the train network ... but they would have made what is actually an interesting range of topics mind-numbingly boring corporate mush. Well done.
I used to live at the corner of Glenferrie Rd where Glen Waverley line crosses the street near Kooyong station. It was jarring: trains blow horns every time they pass/stop, trams ding too when they cross the train rail, and they compound together with the fact that somehow that level crossing clangs A LOT when anything passes. I did get used to it after living there for a while, but getting desensitised to something isn't equal to not having it to begin with.
The government needs to watch this video and act. Are there no innovative thinkers in the transport department or in any of the private operators who are onto this? What a largely pointless contribution to noise pollution. Top notch video!
I wrote to them regarding the explosive devices they use on tracks to warn workers. I highlighted the many failure modes possible of such devices, and how they could actually implement real worker OH&S without waking up a suburb's worth of people at 02:00, 02:15, 02:30, 02:45, 03:00, 03:15, 03:30, 03:45 etc. They wrote back saying "it's the law duh"
In the UK, we have automatic tannoy announcements that say "Passengers on platform , please stand back from the edge, the next train will not stop at this station." Perhaps it is rather wordy but it is more specific as opposed to the Melbourne whistle which tells me only that a train somewhere is leaving or running express through the station.
I've just come back from travelling around the US and stayed a few nights in Williams, Arizona. This is an old rail town and is on the main line between LA and the eastern cities, and the freight trains travelling through there at 3am love to blow their whistles :) From one edge of town out to the other, constant hoot, hoot, hoot. Their whistles have that deep classic train horn sound which I love, but at 3am it's a bit much even for me. The other thing which I noticed while over there was the length of the freight trains. Triple headers with 100+ cars, some with another 3 locos in the middle of the consist which seemed to snake on forever. If you're a railfan, I'd recommend a trip to that part of the world, especially around the Barstow yard and surrounding areas.
I once heard an up train and a down train on the Gippsland line whistle to each other as one had just left the station and the other was about to arrive (so both were travelling pretty slow). It was a classic "toot-toot-toto-toot" from one, and the final "toot-toot!" from the other. Made me smile
Couldn't agree more with scrapping the horn prior to moving - at South Yarra, I'm just about deafened every day when getting off and walking up the ramps!
Glad this video is getting views. It's always good to take another look at customs and practices and see whether they're actually relevant or not. I'm all for removing the need for so many whistles, especially the departing ones as it's extremely loud when you're right next to the horn on the platform and could potentially cause hearing damage.
It's funny how you can sit at a coffee shop at the Gare De Lyon, one of the busiest railways stations in the world, and you will not hear a single toot. At Flinders St, whistles, often long, are heard constantly. I'm not sure why we are still required to whistle upon departure since power doors were introduced. At level crossings we have bells, lights and a physical barrier, if that's not enough to warn a car driver a train approaching ,a whistle isn't going to help.
The Comeng whistles are the nicest all round I think, they’re loud enough for the purpose to warn people and traffic, but they’re not super loud and sharp and deafening like the xtraps. There are so many variations of whistle tones across the remaining fleet of the Comeng’s, which most of them sound really nice imo. I’d love for these to be fitted to all trains currently existing on the network, aswell as to any new trains to enter service in the future. As someone who enjoys the sounds of Melbourne trains, I think the horn is the best part! But that wouldn’t be a popular opinion among the rest of the regular commuter population
@@Older_is_better_PTV all the RVB’s are old Not specific ones Some do date back to the hitachis though but they’re going to replace all of them soon enougy
@@jonahsrailwaychannel8958 replace them with what though? More RVB’s cuz it would be pointless to give them completely different styled horns since they’re being phased out anyways
Neat video. We actually whistle a lot over here in the US as well. Each railroad here has their own specific signals for certain scenarios, but there are at least four common and universal signals used throughout the country. They are as follows: One blast is blown after stopping to signal that you have indeed stopped. Two blasts signal that you are about to start moving forward from a stopped position. Three blasts is the same as the last one except that you will be moving backwards. And finally four blasts are to be sounded when approaching a railroad crossing, but they must be played in a specific order: Two long blasts, a short blast, then a long blast. This sequence must also be started at a whistle post similar to the ones mentioned in this video and can end when the locomotive is occupying the crossing. Update: so i'll admit that i didn't watch the full video when writing this comment. As i now have, i see this information is a bit redundant. I'm gonna keep the comment up however as it serves as a slightly more in-depth look into US signals.
The level crossing sequence is particularly recognizable and disruptive. Transport Canada has the same rules so you'll also hear that here. Often the requirement to whistle is removed if a crossing is upgraded to be fully controlled with gates, which is better for safety anyway.
Oof. That is a lot of whistling, and I'm a Melburnian, so am very used to it. I see a lot of the behaviours in the US systems as potentially putting people off rail travel. The noise included. The use of such heavy cars, the whistles and the bells, non-level boarding, etc. It all seems unnecessary and very outdated.
@@wolfblaide Honestly all of that is secondary to the issues of frequency and on-time performance. There just isn't enough of it to even make people consider passenger heavy rail a viable option in the first place, for the most part, and worse, it's not like they can even increase frequency if they want to very often because the freight companies own the tracks and they fight against it, and have completely different scheduling requirements and operational standards. It's relatively common that crossings with active gates are allowed to be passed silently as long as they're functioning, so the number of crossings that don't have any electronic protections are also a major issue if horn noise is too much (and for safety anyway) - but yeah I think there are way bigger problems in passenger rail in US/Canada than that already
@DevynCairns Yep, I know. I was just talking from a comfort point of view. Well, I guess I even ignore cleanliness, which is I know a big issue also in US. The US should nationalise the rail lines. Expensive, but worth it. Then they can get to using/building the infrastructure properly.
@@wolfblaide They kind of did, actually... and then they sold it off again. Railroads used to be much more like the rest of the world and have a good share of passenger ridership, but were losing money to planes, buses, and cars post-war toward the 70's. The US government took over passenger operations first under Amtrak but the railroads were still failing to run freight profitably, so they took all of the failing railroads over under Conrail. Unfortunately, they did it with eventually selling the government ownership stake (85%) in mind from the beginning, and going into it with that mindset, they focused entirely on profitability, put lots of money into the railroad infrastructure, gave them lots of tax and regulatory breaks, and then sold it. In the end, Norfolk Southern ended up with a big chunk and then CSX with the other big chunk of it. The US, particularly at a federal level, is unfortunately basically ideologically opposed to government running anything that private business could run and will seek to undermine anything that looks like it might be a success
I drove suburban trains in Adelaide in 1980s, we blew long short long whistle code for EVERY level crossing! You also blew one short acknowledging the Guards buzzer, before moving train, at every station, EXCEPT Adelaide station. There was restriction on blowing whistle during hours of darkness up until 0700hrs in morning in metro area on crossings equipped with flashing lights & boom gates, at unprotected crossings, the whistle code applied 24hrs a day. Ive travelled since retiring, most now give quick toot at level crossing, some do same before departure? I went for run to Gawler few years ago and young bloke driving, blew long short long at every crossing! His father had been Railcar Driver in my time! 😉👍
Agree with basically everything you said, I used to live in a city in another country where most of the commuter railway was underground, rapid-transit style and had barely any horns. I also went to Sydney recently and don't recall hearing a single horn.
I remember as a kid thinking V sets were horn-less because Sydney trains never whistle or barely ever do growing up in both nsw and Vic I just came to the conclusion that Sydney trains didn't have horns and Melbourne ones did to be fair I was only like 6
I remember seeing a news article where someone insisted the noise had increased. I think they were on the Frankston line, so it would have with the increase in X traps on the line
I like the departure horn - On a calm day when the breeze is blowing the same direction the train (you're waiting for), you can hear it upto 5 stations away, and then getting closer and closer to you --- it let's you know how much / or little time you've to wait before train rolls into your station.
Great video! Really enjoyed watching it! I’m on the Hurstbridge line too - the whistles will continue to scare me when at Southern Cross station though! They always seem to give me a fright 😂
Here in Singapore I’ve never heard a train whistle, but a few key differences to Melbourne, 1) the system is 100% grade separated, a lot of it underground but still many kilometres elevated, 2) every platform has platform gates, 3) with many apartments around the train lines a whistle would annoy a lot of people (obviously this only applies the the elevated sections).
I live around 3KM from the tracks in Sunbury but I still hear the whistles all day - I can't actually live much further away and still be in town so the 'Don't live so close to the lines' is a bit of a moot argument IMO.
Whistling before tunnels is a relic of needing to open windows (to open a door) where you might be leaning out. It is similar to a redundant moving-off whistle, since modern doors are power operated and windows are sealed.
The whistle before moving is not just very annoying, it's also dangerous. At southern cross station there are some trains that have extremely loud whistles (the Comengs especially from memory) which are deafening to people nearby, due to the confined space and hard reflections of the overpasses and enclosed roof. The same goes for city loop stations, which are entirely enclosed/confined spaces... it is way too loud for passengers standing nearby! In some cases I can't stand to be on the platform, and need to move back up to one of the nearby walkways or to a nearby platform. Or I move behind some of the signage on the platform, or put in my in-ear earphones to escape the noise. I can't believe they still allow trains to whistle in these environments, it creates a horrible environment for passengers.
When I was commuting to Canterbury station, there's nothing particularly peculiar about its setup, but I was always just forward of and below the cab when disembarking as it started to take off. I learnt to cover my ears as I passed the cab. It was awful, and of course I gave my ignored feedback to PTV over it.
I feel like maybe the solution to urgency in whistles has already been partially solved in the UK, as here most trains are fitted with a two-tone horn instead of a single tone (partially resulting in the famous Ilkley horn pattern popular among British enthusiasts), theoretically it could be put in place where the lower, more dulcet, tone is used in "normal circumstances" and the higher, sharper tone could be used as in emergency situations, alternating between the two also creates a sound reminiscent of Ambulance/Police/Fire Engine alarms, providing a similar sort of "shock".
@@LittleJimmyRThe british two tone horn where made so that people could tell the difference between trains and cars and some British trains have an extra tone called a depot whistle which snounds like a london undergound train whistle.
@@LittleJimmyR The British rail rulebook calls it a two tone horn. With certain trains have four tones. For example the class 43 has a four tone horn, there are high loud, high soft, low loud and low soft.
Nice vid. I actually like the toot before the train leaves (as a trasiter). It way easier to know when a train is about to leave. in colder months the train driver will close the doors regularly even when the train doesn't depart for ~5+ minutes. Also way easier to tell when I've missed the train ASAP xD
2:40 yeah, my brother lives right in the middle of Dennis and Fairfield Station, and its loud, often, all day. He says you get used to it after a while but when I went to visit it was quite a shock. 😅
Great video and needs to be in the public discord more! One thing you didn't quite touch on is inner-suburb apartments. I live next to a very busy train station with multiple tracks, as do hundreds of others given they're apartment blocks surrounding the station, the whistles are absolutely over the top. And yes we all knew what we were signing up for in terms of train noise to an extent but the normal person does not consider the train whistles. From frequency, duration and loudness throughout the day and night. Worst are when freight trains go past late at night, the station is closed and they still whistle for an incredibly long time.
I grew up in a Melbourne suburb called Dallas. We were directly under the flight path of Tullamarine Airport, had two major roads nearby and the train lines about 30 metros from our front door. With all the country and metro trains, trucks and planes, sometimes the windows would rattle, but in no time you totally tune-out the noise. You get so used to it, you virtually don't hear it. In fact, when I moved away from home I went to live in a semi-rural area. It was so quiet that the only way I could sleep was by leaving the TV and radio on.
I regularly take a train that arrives just after a V-Line train and I board (and wait) at the front because the station I get off at has an exit towards the front. This means that it happens quite often that I'm just waiting for my train when a V-Line blasts the horn meant to be heard from a significant distance... right into my ears. It is actually painful and I cannot imagine any reason to blast that horn when someone is standing right next to it, I've gotten acclimatised to it as of late and now am ready for it but its still immensely annoying for the majority of passengers.
I have an example Prahran Station and Union Street Level crossing. The train blows it's whistle when it departs no more than 10 seconds later it blows it's whistle again for Union St. Something I thought it might be worth bringing up.
I live about a block away from the Warnambool line and we still have the old school box style Diesel Electric locomotive, plus sometimes I hear the freight train
Great video, thanks! It's really interesting to see how rules and regulations differ, even within countries. There are efforts to harmonize rules and regulations within Europe, and it's going to take ages. It took the best part of 15 years to harmonize the East and West German rules after 1989 (and East Germany still has a few signals and signal boards the West doesn't and vice versa). So good luck, European Commission! You showed a short clip of SNCF; the French are actually whistle-tastic in comparison to Germany. For instance, they whistle when trains pass each other. I used to drive in Germany and we had a line with lots of level crossings without barriers or lights, and we had to whistle about 110 times in each direction. But in Germany that is really a great exception. Oh, and yes, greeting children is really important and you always have to wave back! :) Great work, liked + subscribed.
When I was a kid I lived right next to East Camberwell station (about 100 metres away) - the Belgrave/Lilydale lines were about 20 metres behind the backyard. And yeah, you completely stop noticing the train noises including the whistles - my parents still live there and I still don’t notice the trains when I visit. What you DON’T learn to ignore is those explosives they put on the track when works are being done lol
i lived outside Marshall station and the v/locitys blasted the horns right near my fence lol but when the Warrnambool past never heard it till the last second and i got so used to it that i even missed the Steamrail Victoria West coaster
Great video, I was at Seymour on the weekend at the Railway Heritage Centre open day and I had to wonder if I was walking past you and not knowing it. Lots of people with cameras.
I recently moved close to Pascoe Vale station and enjoy hearing the train horns. I grew up a couple of blocks away from a train line near a station in southwestern Ontario (including a GO line) and train horns were part of the background noise, even at night.
Yea, I live on the Warrnambool line in regional Victoria and I live near a level crossing the horn of the n class train is very loud but I get used to it.
Used to live in Footscray, used to love the ghostly whistle of the steam trains that would occasionally pass by, usually late at night or in the morning.
My family lived in Melbourne for about year when I was 10 and I still remember getting startled walking up the ramp at South Yarra as the Comeng set we had just alighted from let us know that it was about to depart. I do wonder if the whistle policy is also a relic from when trains operated with guards
ive lived next to a super busy melbourne train line for a few years now and I have to agree that you tune the train noises out pretty quickly. if im honest, i feel like id miss it if i couldnt hear them anymore. 😄
Some well thought out arguments there, with a reasonable degree of validity. The human minds ability to blank out background noise is extraordinary. I lived for some time beside the Goonyella rail system in Central Qld and after a very short time I in fact noticed an absence of rail noise more than actual noise. On questioning my friend the station master, he would confirm the non-movement of trains during the night due to track possessions etc. I have seen this in action on job sites, where task focused workers will not hear the reversing beepers on plant and vehicles. An interesting video.
My great grandparents lives next to the goods yard in Bendigo, which would have had trains shunting almost constantly through the night. Apparently they found it hard to sleep when trains weren't running!
I live in Melbourne and I agree that the familiarity breeds 'it's own 'familiarity' hazard that after time it becomes background noise that we as humans adapt to. Hopefully VicBigBuild will mitigate horns as well as Level Crossings. Consideration of other horn use needs to be made. Thanks for this very good video. [ps. When temporarily living in the USA our car had 2 horn settings, one for most use, and the quieter one for New York City.]
Having previously lived right next to the Bell Street station on the Mernda line. i definitely got used to the train whistling, then once moving to rural Victoria, me and my partner strangely started to miss the train whistling and took about a year or so for us to get used to not having the train whistling. the really noticeable trains were the maintenance trains. that and people wrecking the boom gates.
When I originally moved into the area I now live (a 10 minute walk from North Shore Station on the Geelong line) I went in with my eyes open, knowing that I'd be hearing Geelong and Warrnambool trains going through as well as goods trains and the various excursion trains that go through The only trains I really hear these days are the goods trains going through on a Sunday and at night when I'm not getting all the noise from the Melbourne Road (Princes Highway) and the local factories.
I knew someone who lived across the road from Darebin station. When the announcement system was introduced they heard the loud bell sound and the announcement for every train starting at 5 in the morning. Not what they signed up for!
We walk along the path next to the line from Highett Station to the roundabout on Whickham Road to get to school and that roundabout is noise hell in the mornings and afternoons. The level crossing has the bells and sirens then usually a train going each way in a short time so you get the 2x horns for the crossings and the one from the train departing. With the traffic noise on top it's an awful place to be for a few minutes.
Great video! The whistle before moving is the worst in the city loop because of the enclosed space - the sound is deafening if you’re near the front of the train (and this is where exits are on some platforms, e.g. Flagstaff)
Terrific video. Thanks, and yes, less silly whistles as trains start off and at level crossings. My ongoing complaints about excessive tram bell ringing complaints continue. Toorak Road to St Kilda Junction, 50 gongs by some drivers, none by others. Yarra Trams driver training is appalling.
As a kid I lived on the Frankston line (in Aspendale) very close to the train line. You get used to it, you only really hear freight trains at night.as i just wrote this i can hear the train in the distance (Belgrave line) it's 11pm so its easier to hear on a quiet night.
In the US when a train approaches a grade crossing they are required to whistle 4 times, 2 long blasts, 1 short blast, and then 1 more long blast, this sequence usually lasts from the whistle post until the train is at the crossing
As a Queenslander, We do use the whistle quite a bit up here although not as much as Melbourne. Our trains always whistle on departure and once for level crossings at a whistle board. And also possibly as required/in an emergency. As suburban trains have two horns, one is a single note ‘town’ horn mainly used in metropolitan areas and a much louder five chime ‘country‘ horn which is used in more rural areas. Although new locomotives have a 2 tone horn similar to those in the UK/Europe.
Some info about horn patterns in North America: There is actually a horn/whistle pattern for the approach to level crossings in North America. Said pattern consists of two long blows, a short blow, and a long blow that lasts until the front of the train enters the level crossing. The level crossing pattern starts when the train is one quarter mile away from the level crossing, or roughly 15 seconds before entering the level crossing. We’ve also got level crossing quiet zones, where engineers/drivers are not allowed to blow the level crossing horn pattern unless required. In said quiet zones, only the locomotive bell is a requirement. Other horn patterns include: -Two blows when the train is about to move forward. -Three blows when the train is about to move backwards.
I remember far more whistles in suburban nsw, for departure, long for tunnels, approaching detonators at trackwork, some level crossings. There was a soft whistle for departure sometimes. Some xpts use a two tone whistle like the british. Then theres the duckcall one some cph railmotors had. Whistle at departure, especially for red rattlers with their open maual doors, was telling passengers to give up running to get the train. Jm
I live near the Merri rail bridge which I honestly think is louder than the train whistles. But it would be nice to not hear the whistles at 4 am when the first trains come through.
Living 100 m from a station directly at a crossing in Germany, from time to time I hear the whistle. But that means someone really messed up. The two most common cases are jumping the barriers to still get an inbound train (platforms for each direction is always behind the road crossing, in the case of trains inbound Cologne that is on the side away from the village, so you have to cross the track). Or someone crosses illegaly at the end of the outbound platform on free track instead of walking 200 metres along the platform, use the crossing and walk back those 200 metres into the field to walk their dog. There is a real footpath up and down the rail embankment both sides at that spot.
Made me do a double take when you said to imagine living between Dennis and Fairfield because... let's just say I didn't have that much trouble imagining. And you're 100% right, I don't notice the whistles unless I actively listen out for them.
As a British person, I've heard what you call whistling (a train using it's horn), as honking more. This is possibly because some trains of the London Underground are fitted with an actual whistle, so as not to deafen passengers while in the tunnels, so trains with a horn use the term honking to not cause confusion. I find it interesting how different systems are used in different places around the world, as before I watched this video, I didn't know how other systems did it. Great video!
Glad you found it interesting! I expect you might find that regardless of what they are commonly referred to as, most internal railway language in the UK will still refer to the act of using the horn as 'whistling.' For instance, the sign is still called a 'whistle board:' www.railsigns.uk/sect15page1.html
If I'm getting off at Eltham on platform 1 after coming back from the city, I usually wait for the train to leave before leaving the platform so I don't get blasted by it's horn as I tap off near the building :/
Interesting to learn about horn uses in other countries. Here in canada we use horns all the time (like you said). At all crossings (unless it’s a quiet zone), trains sound their horn in a long-long-short-long pattern, that’s just one example.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi everyone, just a few quick updates and notes since this video was published:
-In regards to what I talk about at 08:39 comparing the Comeng and X'trapolis whistles: Just days after this went live, it was announced that the remaining members of the Comeng fleet are having their lovely three-chime whistles replaced with the same single-chime model as the X'traps. Bummer.
-This video caught the attention of ABC Radio Melbourne, and I was interviewed on the topic by Raf Epstein live on the afternoon 'drive' show. If you'd like to have a listen it's online here: www.abc.net.au/melbourne/programs/drive/train-whistles-too-loud/102326934
-Please note the statement at the start of the above interview about me being on a 'campaign' to reduce whistle use is untrue - the only aim of this video was raising some awareness of the inconsistency of Melbourne's rules when compared to other parts of the world.
-I've had to clear out a few very angry comments from a small number of people here. As always, I welcome people to post opposing views, but please: keep it clean. Weird aggressive rants and personal attacks aren't welcome. I would also suggest watching the entire video, particularly taking note of the bit where I say "To be clear, I'm not suggesting Melbourne trains shouldn't whistle at all, but I do think the whistle would be a much more valuable warning device if it's use was less frequent."
-Having said that, I think this video has generated some really interesting and positive discussion, which was exactly what it was meant to do!
Thanks!
if you want any more lovely sounding chime horns, look up the class 91 or DVT trains in the uk! they're my faves
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Not the Comeng horns :(((( why would they even think about replacing them? Gotta get some videos in before they're all gone.
I absolutely hate the new comeng horns at my local station you have to stand basically right infront of the horns so your eardrums get obliterated by them and I couldn't tell you how many hours of sleep I've lost because of them just another metro blunder I guess
I seems to me trains should have two horns. One regular "chimey" horn for regular use and the obnoxious grating-tone horn for situations.
Keep the rvbs!!1 metro bloody listen to us!!1!111
One observation: When Sydney trains express through a station (typical on an Inner West station like Newtown) and pass by the platform at high speed, there is always a warning announcement at the station. From memory, it goes something like "Attention passengers, the next train does not stop here. Please stand behind the yellow line" So, no need for the 'whistle" in this circumstance....
Yes that's true, and a good example of something that would be very easy to implement in Melbourne.
Specifically: "Customers on platform one, the next train to arrive on platform one does not stop at this platform. Please stand behind the yellow line, please stand clear."
Same here in Brisbane. Except it's "An express train will pass this station on Platform _ in approximately _ minutes. Please stand behind the yellow safety line"
@@SYDTrainsFilms now that’s a sentence I don’t think I’ll ever forget in my lifetime :)
I'm not sure what it is but you're one of the only Australian Train RUclipsrs that I can watch an entire video of and not get bored of it. Good stuff
Thats why he has 10x the subs than any other peeps
I think it's because, in addition to the interesting content covered, he also has a soothing voice lol
Agreed!
@@stormblessed2673 fr
@@З8З yas
As someone who lives adjacent to a rail line, you also get the "enthusiastic" drivers who whistle a lot for no particular reason.
They're a good driver. One whom enjoys the Job and probably does the steam special jobs too.
That not entirely true some drive would have a whistle code to great a friend
I reckon there's a driver on the Mernda Line who whistles probably twice as much as they need to, I can usually hear about 30 whistles before they arrive at Merri Station...
@npmontgomery Could be many reasons, Happy driver, Saying G'day to a mate or making sure idiots know of his prescence.
They're trying to learn their intervals. Low high is a perfect 5th.
I don't really know the interval actually.
The point about the whistle losing its usefulness is definitely accurate. When you were listing all the situations in which they're required, at first i was thinking that sounds like far too much and I don't remember trains whistling so much. But I think that's because i live near a station and it does just become background noise. I don't even notice it
The first time i heard a train whistle here in sweden was when riding on a branch line for the first time, and i think i jumped about 20 cm in my seat. It's such an utterly foreign thing since we've cut our rail network down to basically only main lines that have maybe 3 level crossings on the entire route, so hearing a train whistle is interpreted like a honking semitruck but scaled way up, which feels quite apocalyptic.
My Dad used to drive trains back in the 1980s & 1990s, both V/Line and the suburban trains, even freight for a little while before it went private. When I was a kid he used to tell me that one of the favourite things he liked to do was blow the whistle before the train departed louder than he needed to so he could watch all the people standing close get scared shitless and laugh at them. Ever since I started commuting I always have that running through the back of my head, and now I don't even notice when whistle is blown before departure, even if it's super loud.
i used to wait at the city facing end of the platform at my local station in the mornings and i swear the vline drivers of the one that'd pass through about 2 minutes before my loop train timed the whistle till they were as level with me as possible while still seeing my reaction and it never failed to make me jump
It svery funny, I'm a trainspotter and even when you know its gonna blow it scares ya
Canterbury Bloody Station. I always had my fingers in my ear from the moment the doors closed because I was usually heading out through the Myki scanners right beside the driver when it blew the whistle.
Tell your dad to get a better sense of humour. I work on the railway I know people with permanent hearing damage due to train horns.
Your dad was a bit rude because laughing at people is a rude thing.
So informative! Excellent stuff!
As a Melbournite I literally thought about this very subject yesterday, and I live on the Hurstbridge line! This takes phone microphones listening in to a whole new level; you read my mind.
I'm pretty sensitive to sound, and one thing I'm conscious of when thinking about my next home is proximity to a rail line, precisely for this reason.
I've lived in Japan where horns are virtually non existent much of the time, and have wondered whether our practices are relics of the past.
I think a whole lot of uses of horns are likely redundant. Also, I never thought about the pleasantness of the Comeng vs Xtrap horn, but now I wish they'd retrofit them, come to think of it!
The Comeng, and all previous EMUs, and most of the diesels, had the RVB Hurricane S-75 three chime air horn. For decades, this was the sound of VR. I have a set.
That section reminded me of Technology Connections video about klaxons.
Melbournite? You mean Melburnian!
@@handyandyaus yeah, I contemplated that as I wrote it and even googled it and still came up with Melbournite. I'm not sure what I was thinking, I must be losing my mind.
Japanese trains don't whistle at level crossings generally, the vast majority are controlled with gates, but they do whistle before tunnels and bridges with some exceptions.
But probably the most common place to hear whistles is at stations, especially busy ones, because they do certainly use the whistle to warn people who are too close to the edge of the platform, which happens quite often. The constant reminders to stay behind the yellow line are for a reason.
If you hang out above one of the busier stations like Shinjuku or Shinagawa where there's a nice viewing platform, during busy times, you'll hear lots of whistling.
That said, they do usually only tap the horn briefly so that it's not annoying. When platforms are really crowded sometimes they're a bit more heavy handed about it.
6:04 as a daily commuter in Indian railways I can confirm our trains whistle a lot and i think whistling gives some important information to the daily commenters that want to understand these stuff and I would've been more than happy to provide you with footage.
Victoria recently introduced new environmental laws where noise pollution must be reduced so far as is reasonably practical. I wonder if there is any impetus on MTM and V/Line to examine this issue because of that. Great video as always!
Good to hear! Hope so!!
Where can I learn more? My neighbours havw really obnoxious music a lot of the time + the council used to do nothing about it
@@idontcheckmynotifications Occasionally I get the same with parties over the back of my place. Go well past the legal time, and doesn't seem to do anything if you call the police or report it to council. Makes it impossible to sleep, and adds a lot to anxiety.
I'll have to go find this new environmental law and see what it says.
As a North American resident, I appreciate this thoughtful discussion of the topic. We are absolutely whistle crazy and as a Railfan I appreciate a good lonesome whistle a blowin’, but as a technology I think it is time to revisit its application, especially in urban areas. Updating the regulation (to help ease the litigation) is key, and is slow going.
25 seconds in, nice shot of Goodwood in the 2013 to 2018 era!
Side note: Trains on Adelaide Metro don't have any of the requirements for horn use (it's "horn" in Adelaide, not whistle like in Melbourne), it's entirely up to the driver to decide when to sound it, and in most cases, the driver will be able to go a whole shift without sounding the horn.
I've seen driver's blowing their horn for level crossings, but it's uncommon, and usually if someones doing something they shouldn't
Side, side note: Adelaide metro's 3000 class has 2 horns, one is a single, low tone, the one most commonly used for warnings, and is about half as loud as a full-blast Melbourne horn, but the second is three tones together, similar to the Comeng's horn, but as an air horn (considering the 3000 class ARE Comengs, just diesel, this make some sense), and is not something you want to be next to when it goes off, ask me how I know.
EDIT: I'm finally done editing.
Thanks, I couldn't remember the situation in Adelaide! That shot at Goodwood was May 2018.
South Australian Railways trains were required to sound a specific "long-short-long" when approaching a level crossing, but this seems to have fallen by the wayside (trackside?) since SAR no longer exists. However, you can still hear the "long-short-long" on Steamranger trains.
@@ronwoods7778 Correct, I also realise that I forgot to mention that my comment is purely Adelaide metro and not ALL railways in Adelaide (which would include ARTC, which has a LOT of whistle boards) so I'll fix that.
And I thoroughly enjoy hearing the SAR whistle, and on rare occasions on Adelaide Metro, the train I was on used the SAR horn tone to greet a trainspotter, but I've yet to be lucky enough to film it.
@@Taitset You probably don't care, but the reason I knew it was that specific a time window was because before 2013 the electric trains weren't in service, and after 2018 (though some retained parts of the AdMet until mid-2019), the 3000 class were painted into a RedMet livery.
And Goodwood is very distinctive.
There must be no level crossings or pedestrian access if that is the case.
For anyone who is wondering, the old Comeng trains are having their RVB horns replaced with the newer, louder horns as a requirement given to metro to keep them in service for longer
So instead of trying to make them quieter, they are instead getting louder
Sad. I much prefer the older sound of the Comengs (and the predecessors).
A very interesting article- thanks for posting.
I live near the disused ghost station at Werribee Racecourse. Despite not being used for decades and trees covering the platform, trains still air-horn/whistle as they pass through as if the station was still in use. Very strange and just a little bit creepy.
Brit here from within the Greater London area. From my experince you have two level crossing approach "styles" the drivers fall into. Those on the former South Western (esp. those who drive the Richmond/Strawberry Hill loop where crossings are frequent) tend to not whistle/sound horns before crossings unless they see danger, whereas those on the former Southern/South Central network do. The crossing that comes to mind is at Mitcham Eastfields station (new station!) on the Portsmouth Direct from LBG. Drivers on Thameslink and Southern trains are more likely to whistle approaching this crossing, likely because grade crossings are almost non-existant elsewhere on their networks within the urban environmnet so are more trigger happy? The frieght drivers don't seem to care though.
Also give a wave or a "whistle gesture", almost all drivers will give a small toot. Great fun when you're with some drunk friends and you're the only sober one!
Edit: I do plan on visting Australia at some point (hopefully before the Comeng units go) because melbourne's network is just so interesting.
Highly recommend taking a look at Melbourne. Such a wonderful and complex system. I love londons network, I have heaps of routes on train simulator and know the entirety of London quite in depth. Awesome system and amazing rolling stock 😅
as someone who had to switch from a comeng/siemens/hcmt to an xtrap at Richmond to get to uni, my god that xtrap horn is a literal jumpscare! Especially when going home and walking down the ramps at the citybound end of the platform, I'm usually covering my ears and trying to anticipate the horn - sometimes even that's not enough
Another video that surprises by teaching me stuff I didn't know, that I didn't know I didn't know, had never thought of, and find surprisingly fascinating. This is content that - in theory - "could" have been produced by the companies running the train network ... but they would have made what is actually an interesting range of topics mind-numbingly boring corporate mush. Well done.
I used to live at the corner of Glenferrie Rd where Glen Waverley line crosses the street near Kooyong station. It was jarring: trains blow horns every time they pass/stop, trams ding too when they cross the train rail, and they compound together with the fact that somehow that level crossing clangs A LOT when anything passes. I did get used to it after living there for a while, but getting desensitised to something isn't equal to not having it to begin with.
Absolutely, people shouldn't have to get desensitised! And yes Kooyong is probably one of the loudest crossings out there.
I’ve got to say, the vic government definitely needs to watch this video and so do PTV because they have so much wrong right now with the network
The government needs to watch this video and act. Are there no innovative thinkers in the transport department or in any of the private operators who are onto this? What a largely pointless contribution to noise pollution. Top notch video!
It's definitely one of those things that has its roots years ago and just was never changed
I wrote to them regarding the explosive devices they use on tracks to warn workers. I highlighted the many failure modes possible of such devices, and how they could actually implement real worker OH&S without waking up a suburb's worth of people at 02:00, 02:15, 02:30, 02:45, 03:00, 03:15, 03:30, 03:45 etc.
They wrote back saying "it's the law duh"
7:15 is probably one of the best comeng horn ever in my opinion.
sounds so good.
Same here
In the UK, we have automatic tannoy announcements that say "Passengers on platform , please stand back from the edge, the next train will not stop at this station."
Perhaps it is rather wordy but it is more specific as opposed to the Melbourne whistle which tells me only that a train somewhere is leaving or running express through the station.
I've just come back from travelling around the US and stayed a few nights in Williams, Arizona. This is an old rail town and is on the main line between LA and the eastern cities, and the freight trains travelling through there at 3am love to blow their whistles :) From one edge of town out to the other, constant hoot, hoot, hoot. Their whistles have that deep classic train horn sound which I love, but at 3am it's a bit much even for me. The other thing which I noticed while over there was the length of the freight trains. Triple headers with 100+ cars, some with another 3 locos in the middle of the consist which seemed to snake on forever. If you're a railfan, I'd recommend a trip to that part of the world, especially around the Barstow yard and surrounding areas.
Thank you so much for making this. Ive lived in many cities; never heard the constant horns I hear in Melbourne.
I once heard an up train and a down train on the Gippsland line whistle to each other as one had just left the station and the other was about to arrive (so both were travelling pretty slow). It was a classic "toot-toot-toto-toot" from one, and the final "toot-toot!" from the other. Made me smile
Couldn't agree more with scrapping the horn prior to moving - at South Yarra, I'm just about deafened every day when getting off and walking up the ramps!
Same. The horns annoy me and they do it everytime before the sweeping left.
Glad this video is getting views. It's always good to take another look at customs and practices and see whether they're actually relevant or not. I'm all for removing the need for so many whistles, especially the departing ones as it's extremely loud when you're right next to the horn on the platform and could potentially cause hearing damage.
It's funny how you can sit at a coffee shop at the Gare De Lyon, one of the busiest railways stations in the world, and you will not hear a single toot. At Flinders St, whistles, often long, are heard constantly. I'm not sure why we are still required to whistle upon departure since power doors were introduced. At level crossings we have bells, lights and a physical barrier, if that's not enough to warn a car driver a train approaching ,a whistle isn't going to help.
The Comeng whistles are the nicest all round I think, they’re loud enough for the purpose to warn people and traffic, but they’re not super loud and sharp and deafening like the xtraps.
There are so many variations of whistle tones across the remaining fleet of the Comeng’s, which most of them sound really nice imo.
I’d love for these to be fitted to all trains currently existing on the network, aswell as to any new trains to enter service in the future.
As someone who enjoys the sounds of Melbourne trains, I think the horn is the best part! But that wouldn’t be a popular opinion among the rest of the regular commuter population
Well it’s a shame since they’re about to remove the old RVB’s
@@jonahsrailwaychannel8958 what do you mean ‘the old ones?’ Like the worn out ones?? Because I’ve noticed a couple new ones on my recent visit
@@Older_is_better_PTV all the RVB’s are old
Not specific ones
Some do date back to the hitachis though but they’re going to replace all of them soon enougy
@@jonahsrailwaychannel8958 replace them with what though? More RVB’s cuz it would be pointless to give them completely different styled horns since they’re being phased out anyways
@connextro same with 401M and the coupled train
Neat video.
We actually whistle a lot over here in the US as well. Each railroad here has their own specific signals for certain scenarios, but there are at least four common and universal signals used throughout the country. They are as follows:
One blast is blown after stopping to signal that you have indeed stopped.
Two blasts signal that you are about to start moving forward from a stopped position.
Three blasts is the same as the last one except that you will be moving backwards.
And finally four blasts are to be sounded when approaching a railroad crossing, but they must be played in a specific order: Two long blasts, a short blast, then a long blast. This sequence must also be started at a whistle post similar to the ones mentioned in this video and can end when the locomotive is occupying the crossing.
Update: so i'll admit that i didn't watch the full video when writing this comment. As i now have, i see this information is a bit redundant. I'm gonna keep the comment up however as it serves as a slightly more in-depth look into US signals.
The level crossing sequence is particularly recognizable and disruptive. Transport Canada has the same rules so you'll also hear that here.
Often the requirement to whistle is removed if a crossing is upgraded to be fully controlled with gates, which is better for safety anyway.
Oof. That is a lot of whistling, and I'm a Melburnian, so am very used to it. I see a lot of the behaviours in the US systems as potentially putting people off rail travel. The noise included. The use of such heavy cars, the whistles and the bells, non-level boarding, etc. It all seems unnecessary and very outdated.
@@wolfblaide Honestly all of that is secondary to the issues of frequency and on-time performance. There just isn't enough of it to even make people consider passenger heavy rail a viable option in the first place, for the most part, and worse, it's not like they can even increase frequency if they want to very often because the freight companies own the tracks and they fight against it, and have completely different scheduling requirements and operational standards.
It's relatively common that crossings with active gates are allowed to be passed silently as long as they're functioning, so the number of crossings that don't have any electronic protections are also a major issue if horn noise is too much (and for safety anyway) - but yeah I think there are way bigger problems in passenger rail in US/Canada than that already
@DevynCairns Yep, I know. I was just talking from a comfort point of view. Well, I guess I even ignore cleanliness, which is I know a big issue also in US.
The US should nationalise the rail lines. Expensive, but worth it. Then they can get to using/building the infrastructure properly.
@@wolfblaide They kind of did, actually... and then they sold it off again.
Railroads used to be much more like the rest of the world and have a good share of passenger ridership, but were losing money to planes, buses, and cars post-war toward the 70's. The US government took over passenger operations first under Amtrak but the railroads were still failing to run freight profitably, so they took all of the failing railroads over under Conrail. Unfortunately, they did it with eventually selling the government ownership stake (85%) in mind from the beginning, and going into it with that mindset, they focused entirely on profitability, put lots of money into the railroad infrastructure, gave them lots of tax and regulatory breaks, and then sold it. In the end, Norfolk Southern ended up with a big chunk and then CSX with the other big chunk of it.
The US, particularly at a federal level, is unfortunately basically ideologically opposed to government running anything that private business could run and will seek to undermine anything that looks like it might be a success
I drove suburban trains in Adelaide in 1980s, we blew long short long whistle code for EVERY level crossing! You also blew one short acknowledging the Guards buzzer, before moving train, at every station, EXCEPT Adelaide station. There was restriction on blowing whistle during hours of darkness up until 0700hrs in morning in metro area on crossings equipped with flashing lights & boom gates, at unprotected crossings, the whistle code applied 24hrs a day. Ive travelled since retiring, most now give quick toot at level crossing, some do same before departure? I went for run to Gawler few years ago and young bloke driving, blew long short long at every crossing! His father had been Railcar Driver in my time! 😉👍
Agree with basically everything you said, I used to live in a city in another country where most of the commuter railway was underground, rapid-transit style and had barely any horns. I also went to Sydney recently and don't recall hearing a single horn.
I remember as a kid thinking V sets were horn-less because Sydney trains never whistle or barely ever do growing up in both nsw and Vic I just came to the conclusion that Sydney trains didn't have horns and Melbourne ones did to be fair I was only like 6
fun fact: in sydney, the horns are mainly used by friendly drivers to greet train spotters and people doing the arm pump
no idea why this was so interesting to watch but this was a really well made video
I remember seeing a news article where someone insisted the noise had increased. I think they were on the Frankston line, so it would have with the increase in X traps on the line
I live 5km away from narre Warren station and nearly every single time I can here train whistle
Currently watching this and listening to the train whistle its way through Middle Gorge station near my house. Love the channel.
I like the departure horn - On a calm day when the breeze is blowing the same direction the train (you're waiting for), you can hear it upto 5 stations away, and then getting closer and closer to you --- it let's you know how much / or little time you've to wait before train rolls into your station.
Until it blows right beside you, and it's deafening.
Great video! Really enjoyed watching it!
I’m on the Hurstbridge line too - the whistles will continue to scare me when at Southern Cross station though! They always seem to give me a fright 😂
Here in Singapore I’ve never heard a train whistle, but a few key differences to Melbourne, 1) the system is 100% grade separated, a lot of it underground but still many kilometres elevated, 2) every platform has platform gates, 3) with many apartments around the train lines a whistle would annoy a lot of people (obviously this only applies the the elevated sections).
I live around 3KM from the tracks in Sunbury but I still hear the whistles all day - I can't actually live much further away and still be in town so the 'Don't live so close to the lines' is a bit of a moot argument IMO.
Whistling before tunnels is a relic of needing to open windows (to open a door) where you might be leaning out. It is similar to a redundant moving-off whistle, since modern doors are power operated and windows are sealed.
The whistle before moving is not just very annoying, it's also dangerous. At southern cross station there are some trains that have extremely loud whistles (the Comengs especially from memory) which are deafening to people nearby, due to the confined space and hard reflections of the overpasses and enclosed roof. The same goes for city loop stations, which are entirely enclosed/confined spaces... it is way too loud for passengers standing nearby!
In some cases I can't stand to be on the platform, and need to move back up to one of the nearby walkways or to a nearby platform. Or I move behind some of the signage on the platform, or put in my in-ear earphones to escape the noise.
I can't believe they still allow trains to whistle in these environments, it creates a horrible environment for passengers.
When I was commuting to Canterbury station, there's nothing particularly peculiar about its setup, but I was always just forward of and below the cab when disembarking as it started to take off. I learnt to cover my ears as I passed the cab. It was awful, and of course I gave my ignored feedback to PTV over it.
I feel like maybe the solution to urgency in whistles has already been partially solved in the UK, as here most trains are fitted with a two-tone horn instead of a single tone (partially resulting in the famous Ilkley horn pattern popular among British enthusiasts), theoretically it could be put in place where the lower, more dulcet, tone is used in "normal circumstances" and the higher, sharper tone could be used as in emergency situations, alternating between the two also creates a sound reminiscent of Ambulance/Police/Fire Engine alarms, providing a similar sort of "shock".
We do actually have that, but its not "distinct" enough
@@LittleJimmyRThe british two tone horn where made so that people could tell the difference between trains and cars and some British trains have an extra tone called a depot whistle which snounds like a london undergound train whistle.
@@joshuaritchie3836 Yeah, I played a bit of TSW2 so I know the horns, I like it :)
It's not actually 2 tone I guess, there is just 2 horns.
@@LittleJimmyR The British rail rulebook calls it a two tone horn. With certain trains have four tones. For example the class 43 has a four tone horn, there are high loud, high soft, low loud and low soft.
Nice one! Learnt a few things along the way. Lots of footage from the diamond creek trail too. My stomping ground
Nice vid. I actually like the toot before the train leaves (as a trasiter). It way easier to know when a train is about to leave. in colder months the train driver will close the doors regularly even when the train doesn't depart for ~5+ minutes. Also way easier to tell when I've missed the train ASAP xD
2:40 yeah, my brother lives right in the middle of Dennis and Fairfield Station, and its loud, often, all day. He says you get used to it after a while but when I went to visit it was quite a shock. 😅
11:33 woah Glenroy from before the level crossing removal. That section is in a 30m deep pit now.
Great video and needs to be in the public discord more! One thing you didn't quite touch on is inner-suburb apartments. I live next to a very busy train station with multiple tracks, as do hundreds of others given they're apartment blocks surrounding the station, the whistles are absolutely over the top. And yes we all knew what we were signing up for in terms of train noise to an extent but the normal person does not consider the train whistles. From frequency, duration and loudness throughout the day and night. Worst are when freight trains go past late at night, the station is closed and they still whistle for an incredibly long time.
What a great video and a great channel you have built.
One minor thing - trains in Sydney whistle on exiting a tunnel as well as entering.
This is a great analysis and video. Some great imagery of Melbourne's network too
I grew up in a Melbourne suburb called Dallas. We were directly under the flight path of Tullamarine Airport, had two major roads nearby and the train lines about 30 metros from our front door. With all the country and metro trains, trucks and planes, sometimes the windows would rattle, but in no time you totally tune-out the noise. You get so used to it, you virtually don't hear it. In fact, when I moved away from home I went to live in a semi-rural area. It was so quiet that the only way I could sleep was by leaving the TV and radio on.
I regularly take a train that arrives just after a V-Line train and I board (and wait) at the front because the station I get off at has an exit towards the front.
This means that it happens quite often that I'm just waiting for my train when a V-Line blasts the horn meant to be heard from a significant distance... right into my ears.
It is actually painful and I cannot imagine any reason to blast that horn when someone is standing right next to it, I've gotten acclimatised to it as of late and now am ready for it but its still immensely annoying for the majority of passengers.
I have an example Prahran Station and Union Street Level crossing. The train blows it's whistle when it departs no more than 10 seconds later it blows it's whistle again for Union St. Something I thought it might be worth bringing up.
Yes definitely, they really should combine it into one for places like that!
Great video! And thank you for highlighting the housing crisis in response to the silly "you chose to live there" retort.
Offten very loud-tooooooot-(clears throat)-very loudly. oh my goodness I had to hear that bit again, so good, such a great video!
I'm from Perth so idk why I watched this start to finish lmfao. Reguardless, good video frfr 🙏🙏🙏💖💖💖
I live about a block away from the Warnambool line and we still have the old school box style Diesel Electric locomotive, plus sometimes I hear the freight train
Great video, thanks! It's really interesting to see how rules and regulations differ, even within countries. There are efforts to harmonize rules and regulations within Europe, and it's going to take ages. It took the best part of 15 years to harmonize the East and West German rules after 1989 (and East Germany still has a few signals and signal boards the West doesn't and vice versa). So good luck, European Commission!
You showed a short clip of SNCF; the French are actually whistle-tastic in comparison to Germany. For instance, they whistle when trains pass each other. I used to drive in Germany and we had a line with lots of level crossings without barriers or lights, and we had to whistle about 110 times in each direction. But in Germany that is really a great exception. Oh, and yes, greeting children is really important and you always have to wave back! :)
Great work, liked + subscribed.
When I was a kid I lived right next to East Camberwell station (about 100 metres away) - the Belgrave/Lilydale lines were about 20 metres behind the backyard. And yeah, you completely stop noticing the train noises including the whistles - my parents still live there and I still don’t notice the trains when I visit.
What you DON’T learn to ignore is those explosives they put on the track when works are being done lol
Great video! The video is already giving me PTSD of the train whistles in Melbourne😂
i lived outside Marshall station and the v/locitys blasted the horns right near my fence lol but when the Warrnambool past never heard it till the last second and i got so used to it that i even missed the Steamrail Victoria West coaster
Great video, I was at Seymour on the weekend at the Railway Heritage Centre open day and I had to wonder if I was walking past you and not knowing it. Lots of people with cameras.
I was there last year, but not this time! Looks like it was a nice day.
I recently moved close to Pascoe Vale station and enjoy hearing the train horns. I grew up a couple of blocks away from a train line near a station in southwestern Ontario (including a GO line) and train horns were part of the background noise, even at night.
Yea,
I live on the Warrnambool line in regional Victoria and I live near a level crossing the horn of the n class train is very loud but I get used to it.
Used to live in Footscray, used to love the ghostly whistle of the steam trains that would occasionally pass by, usually late at night or in the morning.
One of my mates lives near to a crossing near Huntingdale. His house backs on the line. He was dead against sky rail but loves it now.
My family lived in Melbourne for about year when I was 10 and I still remember getting startled walking up the ramp at South Yarra as the Comeng set we had just alighted from let us know that it was about to depart.
I do wonder if the whistle policy is also a relic from when trains operated with guards
ive lived next to a super busy melbourne train line for a few years now and I have to agree that you tune the train noises out pretty quickly. if im honest, i feel like id miss it if i couldnt hear them anymore. 😄
0:37 awesome sound there
Some well thought out arguments there, with a reasonable degree of validity. The human minds ability to blank out background noise is extraordinary. I lived for some time beside the Goonyella rail system in Central Qld and after a very short time I in fact noticed an absence of rail noise more than actual noise. On questioning my friend the station master, he would confirm the non-movement of trains during the night due to track possessions etc. I have seen this in action on job sites, where task focused workers will not hear the reversing beepers on plant and vehicles. An interesting video.
My great grandparents lives next to the goods yard in Bendigo, which would have had trains shunting almost constantly through the night. Apparently they found it hard to sleep when trains weren't running!
As a daily commuter to school I always thought this was normal until now. Very informative!
Great video :)
I live in Melbourne and I agree that the familiarity breeds 'it's own 'familiarity' hazard that after time it becomes background noise that we as humans adapt to. Hopefully VicBigBuild will mitigate horns as well as Level Crossings. Consideration of other horn use needs to be made. Thanks for this very good video. [ps. When temporarily living in the USA our car had 2 horn settings, one for most use, and the quieter one for New York City.]
Having previously lived right next to the Bell Street station on the Mernda line. i definitely got used to the train whistling, then once moving to rural Victoria, me and my partner strangely started to miss the train whistling and took about a year or so for us to get used to not having the train whistling. the really noticeable trains were the maintenance trains. that and people wrecking the boom gates.
Xtrap horns are so loud I can just hear them from my house which is 3Km away from the railway. I don’t get why they have to be so loud
When I originally moved into the area I now live (a 10 minute walk from North Shore Station on the Geelong line) I went in with my eyes open, knowing that I'd be hearing Geelong and Warrnambool trains going through as well as goods trains and the various excursion trains that go through The only trains I really hear these days are the goods trains going through on a Sunday and at night when I'm not getting all the noise from the Melbourne Road (Princes Highway) and the local factories.
The tram horn at 7:05 absolutely catches me off guard every time I hear it. Works as designed, on me at least
Another fascinating video! Thanks Martin!
I knew someone who lived across the road from Darebin station. When the announcement system was introduced they heard the loud bell sound and the announcement for every train starting at 5 in the morning. Not what they signed up for!
Heard you on the radio! Great vid btw
thanks martin for all these cool videos!
I enjoy your stuff, mate. Keep going. Thanks.
We walk along the path next to the line from Highett Station to the roundabout on Whickham Road to get to school and that roundabout is noise hell in the mornings and afternoons. The level crossing has the bells and sirens then usually a train going each way in a short time so you get the 2x horns for the crossings and the one from the train departing. With the traffic noise on top it's an awful place to be for a few minutes.
Great video! The whistle before moving is the worst in the city loop because of the enclosed space - the sound is deafening if you’re near the front of the train (and this is where exits are on some platforms, e.g. Flagstaff)
Terrific video. Thanks, and yes, less silly whistles as trains start off and at level crossings. My ongoing complaints about excessive tram bell ringing complaints continue. Toorak Road to St Kilda Junction, 50 gongs by some drivers, none by others. Yarra Trams driver training is appalling.
As a kid I lived on the Frankston line (in Aspendale) very close to the train line. You get used to it, you only really hear freight trains at night.as i just wrote this i can hear the train in the distance (Belgrave line) it's 11pm so its easier to hear on a quiet night.
In the US when a train approaches a grade crossing they are required to whistle 4 times, 2 long blasts, 1 short blast, and then 1 more long blast, this sequence usually lasts from the whistle post until the train is at the crossing
As a Queenslander, We do use the whistle quite a bit up here although not as much as Melbourne. Our trains always whistle on departure and once for level crossings at a whistle board. And also possibly as required/in an emergency.
As suburban trains have two horns, one is a single note ‘town’ horn mainly used in metropolitan areas and a much louder five chime ‘country‘ horn which is used in more rural areas. Although new locomotives have a 2 tone horn similar to those in the UK/Europe.
Some info about horn patterns in North America:
There is actually a horn/whistle pattern for the approach to level crossings in North America. Said pattern consists of two long blows, a short blow, and a long blow that lasts until the front of the train enters the level crossing. The level crossing pattern starts when the train is one quarter mile away from the level crossing, or roughly 15 seconds before entering the level crossing. We’ve also got level crossing quiet zones, where engineers/drivers are not allowed to blow the level crossing horn pattern unless required. In said quiet zones, only the locomotive bell is a requirement.
Other horn patterns include:
-Two blows when the train is about to move forward.
-Three blows when the train is about to move backwards.
I remember far more whistles in suburban nsw, for departure, long for tunnels, approaching detonators at trackwork, some level crossings. There was a soft whistle for departure sometimes. Some xpts use a two tone whistle like the british. Then theres the duckcall one some cph railmotors had. Whistle at departure, especially for red rattlers with their open maual doors, was telling passengers to give up running to get the train. Jm
I live near the Merri rail bridge which I honestly think is louder than the train whistles. But it would be nice to not hear the whistles at 4 am when the first trains come through.
Living 100 m from a station directly at a crossing in Germany, from time to time I hear the whistle. But that means someone really messed up. The two most common cases are jumping the barriers to still get an inbound train (platforms for each direction is always behind the road crossing, in the case of trains inbound Cologne that is on the side away from the village, so you have to cross the track). Or someone crosses illegaly at the end of the outbound platform on free track instead of walking 200 metres along the platform, use the crossing and walk back those 200 metres into the field to walk their dog. There is a real footpath up and down the rail embankment both sides at that spot.
In Adelaide i've heard the train's also do it before crossings etc
Indian Railways has similar whistles rules as mentioned for Melbourne trains. We hear a lot of whistles .
Made me do a double take when you said to imagine living between Dennis and Fairfield because... let's just say I didn't have that much trouble imagining. And you're 100% right, I don't notice the whistles unless I actively listen out for them.
As a British person, I've heard what you call whistling (a train using it's horn), as honking more. This is possibly because some trains of the London Underground are fitted with an actual whistle, so as not to deafen passengers while in the tunnels, so trains with a horn use the term honking to not cause confusion. I find it interesting how different systems are used in different places around the world, as before I watched this video, I didn't know how other systems did it. Great video!
Glad you found it interesting! I expect you might find that regardless of what they are commonly referred to as, most internal railway language in the UK will still refer to the act of using the horn as 'whistling.' For instance, the sign is still called a 'whistle board:' www.railsigns.uk/sect15page1.html
If I'm getting off at Eltham on platform 1 after coming back from the city, I usually wait for the train to leave before leaving the platform so I don't get blasted by it's horn as I tap off near the building :/
Interesting to learn about horn uses in other countries. Here in canada we use horns all the time (like you said). At all crossings (unless it’s a quiet zone), trains sound their horn in a long-long-short-long pattern, that’s just one example.