Rory its humbling to be on the receiving end of your comments lol, also appreciated. Rory you had our strategy nailed. we were returning all serves to Taylor. one thing you might have misspoke this was a double elimination bracket. the first games my 3rd drive was working really well. 3rd shot drive isnt my favorite choice or my best shot, but it was working. then we realized dawson really couldnt handle it so thats why we kept driving at him. what we didnt alternate in the match to 15, is dawson got used to my 3rd shot drive and started countering it well putting kenzie/me in a bad spot. hind sight should have relocated the drive or gone back to my more comfortable 3rd drop. the beginning of this video was kenzie and mines 7th match - 15th game for the day, taylor and dawsons 6th match - 14th game. with 19 other teams against us in the bracket we were still happy with silver. rory you asked what happened with one of the high lobs that went in bounds but point stopped. that ball went up into the rafters/ceiling which is a fault.
Congratulations on getting the silver medal. 15 games in one day, is, in my opinion, just too many. I played in a tournament the other day with my mixed doubles partner. We started at 1:00 p.m. Before playing with me, my partner played in ladies' doubles. We played for the gold medal in her 15th game of the day. We lost. She was beat, both mentally and physically. Maybe I should have picked a game y'all played in at the beginning of the tournament. I enjoy watching the games played on your channel. Keep posting them.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787congratulations on silver still! this was a good match to pick apart, other than us loosing so close getting the gold. The quarter final was a pretty good match (no ref in it). The team in my bronze was also rolling heads in the bracket with pace. kenzie (my sister) and I both like pace so we had good counters against them. I'm attending the Atlanta ppa so I plan on recording some medal matches there. I myself am not playing there because I love watching the pros too much.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 wow, 15 games that's too much to ask of anyone. My wife just competed in a tournament and got to the gold medal medal round. I got to say they were spent by that point.
I always tell players I can tell their skill level by watching one shot and that is how well they hit the third shot drop. You are right that the shot distinguishes the average player and the good players. Players don't get past the mid-3.0 level without a decent 3rd shot drop.
According to skill level, a player at the 3.5 level must be able to hit a consistent third shot drop. There are players with athletic skills who play well and maybe never attempt a third shot drop. I have no idea why they don't practice that shot. Thanks for watching.
I quite enjoyed watching these games and them changing it up when things werent working etc Learning during the games. This level of play I can see myself doing the same kind of shots and positioning etc. Its easier to see what works or doesnt. Very helpful. Thanks for the breakdown 👍
Those free points on the return... are mostly due to landon's spin serve.. [ in 3rd game it became apparent] . BTW: just found your channel .. enjoy your perspective and great commentary...best lessons ever.... Thanks.... Vince. 72 yrs young 1st yr to pickleball [ addicted ]
The issue I believe is regional. 3.5 players in central FL would destroy 4.0 players in the midwest. Obviously this is just my observational assessment. But this is where dupr fails. You are judging players based on their overall competition strength. If the population in general is weaker, the stronger players in that population will achieve a higher dupr, to a point. This same player with a 4.0 in an isolated region will be shocked to discover that 3.5 level players from a different region will dominate them. I firmly believe this.
Your comments concerning the third shots are on point. Sounded like someone I know. Just hope lots of people watch this specific content, so well analyzed.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 glad you also made it clear that the longer you remain in the transition zone the more likely you are to lose the point. For example, at that level, if you make it to the NVL on the third shot you have to a 50% chance of winning the point. On the 5th shot your chance goes down to 45% but on 7th shot it goes not to below 10%. So it’s advisable to make it on the third but sure on the 5th to have a chance. This is a very important shot
@@sportsenthusiast7360 Very good point! Its a statistical problem. Lets say you are a pretty good 3rd shot dropper and you make a good one 85% of the time (your expected value). Here are your chances to follow up with a good drop on the next shot. 1st drop .85 2nd drop .65 3rd drop .55 4th drop .46 5th drop .39 The more shots you hit the less likely you will make it into the kitchen.
Awesome video! Both teams played great and I love seeing them play with finesse and a strategy. I think Taylor and Dawson’s short game would improve if their ready position was better. I noticed their paddles down by their knees a lot. Just an observation! They are very good players.
I agree on the stacking and 3rd shot drops. I would agree this is 3.5 level play, which is what the video notes. I think all the players would be fun to mix in with. However, it does note some of the issues I have with DUPR ratings. It's not meant to be to knock these players as much as to note that because of how DUPR localized ratings can be an issue. Everyone gets defaulted to 3.5 and every time someone goes up someone else must go down. I only mention this as 3 of the players would not be allowed to play 3.5 in nationals due to their DUPR.
If they played in Nationals, they would not use their dupr rating. They would use their utpr rating. There's one thing about dupr that you really have to take a look at. There is a blue circle on your dupr rating with a number on it. It's your reliability rating. Let's say the number in that circle is 19. That means the reliability of your dupr rating is only 19%. That means there's an 81% chance your dupr rating is not correct. In the percentage to be higher. You have to play in more games and you also have to play against different players. Thanks for watching.
If they played in Nationals, they would not use their dupr rating. They would use their utpr rating. There's one thing about dupr that you really have to take a look at. There is a blue circle on your dupr rating with a number on it. It's your reliability rating. Let's say the number in that circle is 19. That means the reliability of your dupr rating is only 19%. That means there's an 81% chance your dupr rating is not correct. In the percentage to be higher. You have to play in more games and you also have to play against different players. Thanks for watching.
Fun game to watch, I think Kenzie and Langdon Were gassed by final game. Not bending knees and getting under ball. That's a lot of games, no wonder! I noticed that Taylor tended to position herself at the "t" when she got to nvz. This impeded her partners forehand on several shots and left her wide open for passing shots. I find myself doing this too much as well.
Dude that used to be me once upon a time! The woman in the near court is able to hit a good drop in transition but not from the baseline. The farther you are the more difficult it is to hit that shot. If its a deep return of serve 3rd shot drive is a much better option followed by 5th shot drop assuming you have a reliable drive. This is the new meta. Far side is doing a great job at 4th shot pressure which is a very undervalued skill. Also there is just only so far you can go in pickleball by hitting flat shots. She needs topspin and backspin 3rd shot drops if she wants to progress which also requires better footwork. In fact with the technique she currently has I believe she has already reached her ceiling unless she adds spin to her game.
Oh yikes, I disagree. They are not ready for adding topspin too complicated. They should not even be stacking on defense as she keeps having to return while she is unwinding and she does not yet have skill level to hit on the move. Havent finished watching yet and I'm wondering if Rory going to note this
The third shot drop is a very difficult shot to make. IMHO, it's more than likely done at the 4.0 level on a consistent basis. Probably not so at 3.5. Just watched a tournament at the Vernon pickleball association, and that is what I observed.
I just played in the tournament yesterday. The level was 3.5 to 4.0. I played four games to 15. It was the first time I had played outdoors in 6 months. I was concerned about the wind having an effect on my third shot drops. Over the four games, I missed three third shot drops. I was pretty happy about that. My opponents also played more of a soft game with third shot drops instead of drives and there was a lot of dinking. Last month, I played in a tournament in a different state and it was just the opposite. All of my opponents were power players and did not have much of a soft game. So, I guess at times, you never know what you're going to get. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Nvm, I think it's because of the weird framerate on the footage and the tablet/tv is processing to be smoother than it's suppose to. Watching it on my pc chrome browser and it looks normal speed other than the choppy frame rate.
wow i missed that when i edited this video. also sadly this match had a USPA ref. She also didnt call the foot fault i called on myself, my wife said the ref looked so surprised i called a foot fault on myself lol.
Unfair to the other teams that the “3.5 Gold Medal Match” consisted of 3 players over the 3.5 level. Players and Organizers need to do a better job of eliminating sandbaggers to properly award those that abide by the rules
Both teams played without any finesse or strategy, at least for the first 10 minutes. That's what makes them 3.5. 3 of the 4 of them had no chance of moving up on the 3rd shot.
18:37...Standing at the NVZ, defending against a hard hit drive, Block or Punch. Dawson's paddle face moves way too much. He twists his wrist in an uncomfortable position, turning the paddle face straight down??? Way too much wrist action. Your opponent usually targets your backhand or a body shot so start with your paddle face favoring your backhand, not pointing forward, then Block or Punch. Less is more. Don't fully commit the paddle face to the backhand or they will target your forehand.
Maybe it's a 7.5 tournament. In USTA (tennis) they have a similar rating system and for doubles matches they would have 7.0 doubles tournaments where the sum of the two players on one team adds up to (or is no greater than) 7.0. You usually would have a 3.0 player and 4.0 player on a team. Maybe this is a 7.5 tournament (but I'm just speculating based on my previous tennis experience).
They really ought to get better at everything else before they consider Stacking . Stacking , at this point in their game play development, is more of a distraction than it is a benefit .
How are these two guys 4-point-anything? DUPR is not working. And if they're "4.0"...why are they entered in a 3.5 tournament? Is it because they know that they're not 4.0 and they can't compete at the 4.0 level?
Unfair to the other teams that the “3.5 Gold Medal Match” consisted of 3 players over the 3.5 level. Players and Organizers need to do a better job of eliminating sandbaggers to properly award those that abide by the rules
A lot of times in those types of tournaments, there are not enough teams in a particular skill level, so they will combine skill levels. Thanks for watching.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Rory its humbling to be on the receiving end of your comments lol, also appreciated. Rory you had our strategy nailed. we were returning all serves to Taylor. one thing you might have misspoke this was a double elimination bracket. the first games my 3rd drive was working really well. 3rd shot drive isnt my favorite choice or my best shot, but it was working. then we realized dawson really couldnt handle it so thats why we kept driving at him. what we didnt alternate in the match to 15, is dawson got used to my 3rd shot drive and started countering it well putting kenzie/me in a bad spot. hind sight should have relocated the drive or gone back to my more comfortable 3rd drop. the beginning of this video was kenzie and mines 7th match - 15th game for the day, taylor and dawsons 6th match - 14th game. with 19 other teams against us in the bracket we were still happy with silver. rory you asked what happened with one of the high lobs that went in bounds but point stopped. that ball went up into the rafters/ceiling which is a fault.
Congratulations on getting the silver medal. 15 games in one day, is, in my opinion, just too many. I played in a tournament the other day with my mixed doubles partner. We started at 1:00 p.m. Before playing with me, my partner played in ladies' doubles. We played for the gold medal in her 15th game of the day. We lost. She was beat, both mentally and physically. Maybe I should have picked a game y'all played in at the beginning of the tournament. I enjoy watching the games played on your channel. Keep posting them.
It looks like you need to work on your line calls a little bit. I saw a few bad calls that were clearly catching a lot of line.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787congratulations on silver still! this was a good match to pick apart, other than us loosing so close getting the gold. The quarter final was a pretty good match (no ref in it). The team in my bronze was also rolling heads in the bracket with pace. kenzie (my sister) and I both like pace so we had good counters against them.
I'm attending the Atlanta ppa so I plan on recording some medal matches there. I myself am not playing there because I love watching the pros too much.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 wow, 15 games that's too much to ask of anyone. My wife just competed in a tournament and got to the gold medal medal round. I got to say they were spent by that point.
I always tell players I can tell their skill level by watching one shot and that is how well they hit the third shot drop. You are right that the shot distinguishes the average player and the good players. Players don't get past the mid-3.0 level without a decent 3rd shot drop.
According to skill level, a player at the 3.5 level must be able to hit a consistent third shot drop. There are players with athletic skills who play well and maybe never attempt a third shot drop. I have no idea why they don't practice that shot. Thanks for watching.
I quite enjoyed watching these games and them changing it up when things werent working etc Learning during the games. This level of play I can see myself doing the same kind of shots and positioning etc. Its easier to see what works or doesnt. Very helpful. Thanks for the breakdown 👍
I'm glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching!
Those free points on the return... are mostly due to landon's spin serve.. [ in 3rd game it became apparent] . BTW: just found your channel .. enjoy your perspective and great commentary...best lessons ever.... Thanks.... Vince. 72 yrs young 1st yr to pickleball [ addicted ]
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
After seeing this game it makes me wonder about how valid the DUPR ratings are.
They were playing at the correct level. Their duper ratings are legitimate. I'm not in love with the dupr system, but, it's pretty much all there is.
The issue I believe is regional. 3.5 players in central FL would destroy 4.0 players in the midwest. Obviously this is just my observational assessment. But this is where dupr fails. You are judging players based on their overall competition strength. If the population in general is weaker, the stronger players in that population will achieve a higher dupr, to a point. This same player with a 4.0 in an isolated region will be shocked to discover that 3.5 level players from a different region will dominate them. I firmly believe this.
These players r terrible, very low skills.
I agree! Those ratings seem very inflated.
Your comments concerning the third shots are on point. Sounded like someone I know. Just hope lots of people watch this specific content, so well analyzed.
You made it very clear, in your interview with geaux pickleball, how to handle a third shot if it's a good one or a not so good one. So, thanks!
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 glad you also made it clear that the longer you remain in the transition zone the more likely you are to lose the point. For example, at that level, if you make it to the NVL on the third shot you have to a 50% chance of winning the point. On the 5th shot your chance goes down to 45% but on 7th shot it goes not to below 10%. So it’s advisable to make it on the third but sure on the 5th to have a chance. This is a very important shot
@@sportsenthusiast7360 Very good point! Its a statistical problem. Lets say you are a pretty good 3rd shot dropper and you make a good one 85% of the time (your expected value). Here are your chances to follow up with a good drop on the next shot.
1st drop .85
2nd drop .65
3rd drop .55
4th drop .46
5th drop .39
The more shots you hit the less likely you will make it into the kitchen.
@@okayest_amateur so true
Awesome video! Both teams played great and I love seeing them play with finesse and a strategy. I think Taylor and Dawson’s short game would improve if their ready position was better. I noticed their paddles down by their knees a lot. Just an observation! They are very good players.
Totally agree! Thanks for watching.
Paddle Up is the right call . I know it feels weird. but players are defiantly more prepared when your paddle is up at the 11 o' clock position.
I agree on the stacking and 3rd shot drops. I would agree this is 3.5 level play, which is what the video notes. I think all the players would be fun to mix in with. However, it does note some of the issues I have with DUPR ratings. It's not meant to be to knock these players as much as to note that because of how DUPR localized ratings can be an issue. Everyone gets defaulted to 3.5 and every time someone goes up someone else must go down. I only mention this as 3 of the players would not be allowed to play 3.5 in nationals due to their DUPR.
If they played in Nationals, they would not use their dupr rating. They would use their utpr rating. There's one thing about dupr that you really have to take a look at. There is a blue circle on your dupr rating with a number on it. It's your reliability rating. Let's say the number in that circle is 19. That means the reliability of your dupr rating is only 19%. That means there's an 81% chance your dupr rating is not correct. In the percentage to be higher. You have to play in more games and you also have to play against different players. Thanks for watching.
If they played in Nationals, they would not use their dupr rating. They would use their utpr rating. There's one thing about dupr that you really have to take a look at. There is a blue circle on your dupr rating with a number on it. It's your reliability rating. Let's say the number in that circle is 19. That means the reliability of your dupr rating is only 19%. That means there's an 81% chance your dupr rating is not correct. In the percentage to be higher. You have to play in more games and you also have to play against different players. Thanks for watching.
Fun game to watch, I think Kenzie and Langdon Were gassed by final game. Not bending knees and getting under ball. That's a lot of games, no wonder!
I noticed that Taylor tended to position herself at the "t" when she got to nvz. This impeded her partners forehand on several shots and left her wide open for passing shots. I find myself doing this too much as well.
Yes. He mentioned they had played 15 games.
Thanks.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching.
Looks like all my shots from base line lol working on drops apparently lol hi Rory ty for the critique!
You're welcome.
Dude that used to be me once upon a time! The woman in the near court is able to hit a good drop in transition but not from the baseline. The farther you are the more difficult it is to hit that shot. If its a deep return of serve 3rd shot drive is a much better option followed by 5th shot drop assuming you have a reliable drive. This is the new meta. Far side is doing a great job at 4th shot pressure which is a very undervalued skill. Also there is just only so far you can go in pickleball by hitting flat shots. She needs topspin and backspin 3rd shot drops if she wants to progress which also requires better footwork. In fact with the technique she currently has I believe she has already reached her ceiling unless she adds spin to her game.
Thanks for your analysis. You made some very valid points.
Oh yikes, I disagree. They are not ready for adding topspin too complicated. They should not even be stacking on defense as she keeps having to return while she is unwinding and she does not yet have skill level to hit on the move. Havent finished watching yet and I'm wondering if Rory going to note this
Haha. I should have finished watching before commenting when I resumed watching Rory made this observation on the very next play
at 29:40 that served looked in to me
Thanks for pointing that out.
You should do a video on the 4th shot, It is every bit as important as the 3rd shot.
Thanks for the suggestion. I might give it a shot.
Should players in a team always try to move forward together?
It all depends on how effective the third shot is. Never, always.
The third shot drop is a very difficult shot to make. IMHO, it's more than likely done at the 4.0 level on a consistent basis. Probably not so at 3.5. Just watched a tournament at the Vernon pickleball association, and that is what I observed.
I just played in the tournament yesterday. The level was 3.5 to 4.0. I played four games to 15. It was the first time I had played outdoors in 6 months. I was concerned about the wind having an effect on my third shot drops. Over the four games, I missed three third shot drops. I was pretty happy about that. My opponents also played more of a soft game with third shot drops instead of drives and there was a lot of dinking. Last month, I played in a tournament in a different state and it was just the opposite. All of my opponents were power players and did not have much of a soft game. So, I guess at times, you never know what you're going to get. Thanks for watching.
Why is the video sped up?
Don't know. I'll have to check it out.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Nvm, I think it's because of the weird framerate on the footage and the tablet/tv is processing to be smoother than it's suppose to.
Watching it on my pc chrome browser and it looks normal speed other than the choppy frame rate.
Serve at 29:55 looked in but called out
Thanks for pointing that out.
All the players need to improve their ready positions as well. All of them keep the paddles too low and out of position to hit a shot back quickly.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
major uncalled foot fault at 13:25 mark by the female in the near court…
Guess it didn’t matter because the other team got the point….
@@imsap2323 yea and I'm pretty sure I saw a Female ref on that side of the court earlier. Boy she blew that.
Didn't see that. Thanks for catching it. Foot faults usually are not called.
wow i missed that when i edited this video. also sadly this match had a USPA ref. She also didnt call the foot fault i called on myself, my wife said the ref looked so surprised i called a foot fault on myself lol.
Unfair to the other teams that the “3.5 Gold Medal Match” consisted of 3 players over the 3.5 level. Players and Organizers need to do a better job of eliminating sandbaggers to properly award those that abide by the rules
Sometimes if there are not enough teams at one level, levels will be combined. Thanks for watching.
Both teams played without any finesse or strategy, at least for the first 10 minutes. That's what makes them 3.5. 3 of the 4 of them had no chance of moving up on the 3rd shot.
Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching.
18:37...Standing at the NVZ, defending against a hard hit drive, Block or Punch. Dawson's paddle face moves way too much. He twists his wrist in an uncomfortable position, turning the paddle face straight down??? Way too much wrist action.
Your opponent usually targets your backhand or a body shot so start with your paddle face favoring your backhand, not pointing forward, then Block or Punch. Less is more.
Don't fully commit the paddle face to the backhand or they will target your forehand.
Good point. Defend with the back end about 80% of the time. Thanks for watching.
Why are 4.0 players I. A 3.5 tournament? Seems kinda unfair.
Maybe it's a 7.5 tournament. In USTA (tennis) they have a similar rating system and for doubles matches they would have 7.0 doubles tournaments where the sum of the two players on one team adds up to (or is no greater than) 7.0. You usually would have a 3.0 player and 4.0 player on a team. Maybe this is a 7.5 tournament (but I'm just speculating based on my previous tennis experience).
Good question. Sometimes if there's not enough teams, skill levels are combined.
Very frustrating to watch. Hope they see this pick-a-part!
Maybe they will. Thanks for watching.
Check.... watched the whole video :P
If taylor would get out of the middle when playing the right side they would have done much better
Perhaps so. Thanks for watching.
They really ought to get better at everything else before they consider Stacking . Stacking , at this point in their game play development, is more of a distraction than it is a benefit .
In some cases, that's a true statement. Thanks for watching.
It looks like Tailors partner was making his serves with his feet on the wrong side of the line.
It's hard to tell. I don't think that's the case, but, if so, thanks for pointing it out.
The young lady that is missing her 3rds would have a better chance of hitting quality 3rds with better footwork. Left foot should be forward.
Thanks for watching and thanks for pointing that out.
How are these two guys 4-point-anything? DUPR is not working. And if they're "4.0"...why are they entered in a 3.5 tournament? Is it because they know that they're not 4.0 and they can't compete at the 4.0 level?
Good question. Thanks for watching.
Too much wrist Taylor
Maybe so. Thanks for watching.
Female in the near court stepped into the kitchen after making a volley at 13:25.
Missed it. Thanks.
Unfair to the other teams that the “3.5 Gold Medal Match” consisted of 3 players over the 3.5 level. Players and Organizers need to do a better job of eliminating sandbaggers to properly award those that abide by the rules
A lot of times in those types of tournaments, there are not enough teams in a particular skill level, so they will combine skill levels. Thanks for watching.